To be accountable means that we are willing to be responsible to another person for our behavior and it implies a level of submission to another's opinions and viewpoints." ― Wayde Goodall
Hello all. Welcome back to the Disciplined Husbands Forum. Our weekly gathering of men and women participating or interested in Domestic Discipline Relationships. I hope you had a good week.
For those of you in the U.S., I hope you are in the middle of an enjoyable, long Labor Day weekend. Since Monday is a holiday devoted to laborers and workers, it is timely in relation to a tangent some of us went off on last week. Spanked Cowboy noted that his wife is a former teacher, which led to these responses from Liz and Alan:
I think teachers and school officials are very likely to become spankers in their personal lives. Police officers and judges as well.
Liz
This is interesting, suggesting as you do that certain occupations are more likely to produce spankers, presumably linked to the authority their day jobs provide. ( although it is also possible people with a lot of everyday authority may be interested in the power exchange that spanking often produces. I don't know of any formal research bearing on the relationship between spanking and occupations. although there is some anecdotal evidence that spanking may be more common among police officers and military personnel, (in the former case ( cops) the interest in spanking might be more the spankee that the disciplinarian). None of this is very scientific although the question as you present it could be interesting to research. In my own limited personal experience people from the medical fields are attracted to spanking.
Alan
That led me to refer tack to a poll I did way back in 2014 (when Blogger still had a polling gadget) that asked about our readers’ professions. The results were as follows:
Doctor/Medical Provider: 2%
Lawyer: 12%
Accountant: 3%
Teacher: 4%
Other Profession: 13%
Business Executive: 11%
Business Non-Executive: 4%
Engineer/Technology: 15%
Business Owner: 14%
Other: 16%
As I admitted at the time, this poll was about as unscientific as it possibly could have been, for reasons both within and outside by control. The potential sample size was limited to however many readers I had at that time. Of those, only 107 responded to the poll. So, both the overall pool and the number of respondents were small. I also came up with the categories, which were obviously very under-inclusive. But, even with a sample of only 107 self-selected respondents, a few interesting points seemed to emerge.
First, contrary to Alan’s observations about those in the medical profession, in this small poll it seemed that members of the medical community either were not very interested in domestic discipline, or did not visit domestic discipline or spanking oriented blogs very often, or were very shy when it comes to filling out polls. I was a bit puzzled by that one, as I had always believed that DD seems to appeal guys with "control freak" tendencies or high-pressure jobs, and the medical profession seems to be chock full of those. And, maybe the egos in that profession might lead some of doctors' spouses to take up the paddle?
Second, I was a little surprised at how many engineers and technology professionals were represented, as I don't associate that group with the Alpha Male and "controller" archetypes that I usually associate with DD. But, again, that may be no more than my own biases and limited experience shining through. ZM was not one of our contributors at that time, so I hope he’ll weigh in on this once since he is into DD and has a very technical background.
Third, one poll result did conform to my pre-existing biases and suppositions, namely that lawyers, business executives and business owners seemed to be over-represented among those who are into disciplinary spanking.
Finally, "other" and "other professional" were, in combination, the largest block of respondents, which could indicate either that even back then we had a very diverse group of visitors to this blog or, less flattering, that I did a really poor job of selecting specific job categories and left out one or two large segments of the DD community.
Looking back, there was one other really big flaw in that poll: It didn’t discriminate between spanker and spankees or between men and women. At the time, I was really focused on blogging for men who were the disciplined parties in DD relationships, so my poll question really focused on whether there were discernible trends in the jobs and career choices of men in F/m-oriented DD relationships. I didn’t focus at all on whether our Disciplinary Wives tended to come from any particular job or career background.
So, let's make jobs, professions and career choices, and their relationship to Domestic Discipline, the focus of this week's topic: For those who are willing to share, what job, career or profession are YOU in, and what, if any, connection do you think there is between that job and your interest in DD? Did the same personality factors that lead you into that career also influence your interest in DD? For instance, if you are inclined to submit to your wife's authority, are you similarly submissive to authority at work? Or, is the inverse true and you feel attracted to DD as a way of giving up the control you exercise on the job? For our Disciplinary Wives, do you see any connection between your job and career choices and how readily you took to DD or how you approach being a disciplinarian at home? I hope that some of our commenters who have more experience with a wide range of people in DD relationships, like Tomy and al, can tell us if they have noted any patterns regarding certain professions and careers that seem over-represented among DD participants on either end of the paddle?
I know that talking about jobs and professions may be sensitive for some, given that many do not want to reveal too much about themselves. If there are sensitivities on that score (and there are for me), I would suggest posting your comment anonymously and not signing the name or pseudonym you usually use when participating in this blog.
For spankers, teachers and principals are almost too easy (as evidenced in part by the sheer volume of spanking art representing school spankings). I also wonder whether, even if the stereotype may once have had some basis in reality, does it today when corporal punishment in schools is not longer prevalent? I could see how it might still have some validity, given that as Liz has pointed out husbands sometimes act like overgrown boys who need boundaries, and teachers have daily experience keeping such boys under control. However, might having to exercise control like that in their day job make them averse to having to take on similar responsibilities at home?
I am in one of those professions that was over-represented in my 2014 poll. This did not occur to me when I wrote that post back in 2014, but while I had been in my profession for several years when I discovered DD, it was at about that time that I had taken a big jump into real executive-level responsibility. I’ve never been able to account for why I was so attracted to DD even though I did not have the pre-existing spanking interest that so many of our male commenters had, but it could be that for me it required a confluence of two elements, i.e. exposure and timing. Until I discovered the Disciplinary Wives Club, I’d never really encountered the concept of adult disciplinary spanking. Coincidentally, it was around that same time that I took on far more responsibility and stress in my career. It very well may be that had I learned about DD earlier, when my career was less stressful and I felt less overwhelmed with responsibility, it would not have had as much appeal.
So, give us the benefit of your observations and experiences with the role of our career and job choices play in Domestic Discipline. And, have a fun, relaxing, and safe weekend.
I'm not too surprised that technology professionals scored high on your survey. Speaking for myself, such people (frequently male) have rare and specialized skills, but generally answer to salespeople and managers who are skilled at moving up in organizations. Does this correlate in some way with being 'submissive' at home? At the risk of generalizing, I'd say yes. Not surprising to me they'd be comfortable on the receiving end of domestic discipline.
ReplyDeleteMy wife, on the other hand, is a project manager, and during the pandemic, I've had the pleasure of overhearing her clearly and explicitly lay out her expectations to staff over the phone. It's fun to listen...
CrimsonKing
That's a really interesting insight, i.e. the overlapping patterns in which one person with a very functional and concrete role takes direction from someone more "managerial" may play out in similar ways both at home and at work.
DeleteI've had a similar experience with my wife during the pandemic, listening to her interact with subordinates and colleagues over Zoom calls.
I think this is Art and me, Dan. He has a concrete and functional role at work and I am a manager at home.
DeleteLiz
Liz, sounds like a great division of labor.
DeleteMe:social project management after a career in public affairs.
ReplyDeleteHer: elected representative.
You'd think power was the key element but if it is its in small dozes.
Cheers GLM.
I suspect politicians would also rank pretty high in a poll properly adjusted for their relatively small portion of the population.
DeleteDave here, regular lurker and reader here, although not a participant. But, in the interest of Dan's request for occupational roles, I will contribute to the data pool.
ReplyDeleteWife - attorney.
She is very direct and assertive, consistent with her profession.
Myself - corporate management
(Some might say "mid-level executive").
I am quite alpha by nature, essentially a job requirement for my position. My wife and I have been actively engaged in the "disciplinary wife lifestyle" for about five years now.
Hi Dave. Thanks for joining in, and I hope it's only the first among many. I get feeling like begin alpha is a job requirement. As I get closer to getting out of my current career, when I look back there isn't a lot of doubt in my mind that it was the kind of environment in which being an alpha and, frankly, out for yourself may not have been a requirement but it certainly helped.
DeleteMy career, generally speaking, is in the arts. I don’t know how many in creative fields like that are into discipline spanking, but I suspect the drama and emotion of these kinds of scenes must have an appeal for some.
ReplyDeleteMy attraction to DD is really based around a fetish rather than a personality type or outside influence. Maybe a poll should look deeper into motivations. I think some DD’ers must be drawn to certain professions because of character traits that match the leadership or dominance required. A judge probably likes to judge. A cop is probably into law enforcement. A teacher wants to teach. High-powered positions in business are often attained by power-hungry people. The question is where the interest in spanking, in particular, comes from. For me, it’s a kink, but it’s an attraction to authentic discipline.
I recently discovered this blog, but haven't participated so far, so a quick introduction might be in order. My name is Carsten, I'm in my late 30ies and live in Germany. My wife and I are married for 9 years now and we lived in a DD relationship for most of this time.
ReplyDeleteI chose a career as a software engineer. As far as I can remember I always had a hard time dealing with ambiguity. I remember hating it when my parents just told me to "be good" or "don't come home to late" rather then clearly stating what they expected. My mother always tells the story, how she expected me to become a lawyer because I would write down all their rules and complained if I was punished for something that wasn't clearly covered. What immediately clicked for me when I first learned programming, was that a good program has no ambiguity, at its core its all just simple if this then that rules.
I had a similar experience when I first met my wife. The friends that introduced us has warned me that she might come off a little harsh and pushy. What I found was that she just very clearly stated what she wanted and expected and that was something I very much appreciated. In previous relationships I had always struggled with picking up all the little hints and clues as to what my girlfriends wanted from me, so I found her clarity refreshing. I still wouldn't have guessed that two years later I would receive my first disciplinary spanking from here.
My wife is a trained nurse, but she chose to be a stay-at-home mum when we had our first child a couple of years ago.
Hi Carsten. Thanks for joining in. I have several friends and close work colleagues in Germany. Welcome. "What I found was that she just very clearly stated what she wanted and expected and that was something I very much appreciated." In a reply to a comment last week or the week before, I said that DD helped me become a better manager by helping me (a) understand the value of giving precise instructions and setting expectations; and (b) not having as much ongoing tolerance for repeated failures to meet those expectations. It was surprising to me how many employees seemed to thrive with crisper, more authoritative direction, because I had previously seen it as "bossy" and didn't like doing it. Basically, I think that I previously did not understand that while not all employees are like you, i.e. need clear directions and some firmness in expectation setting, many are like you.
DeleteHi Carsten,
DeleteGreat point about software. It is very predictable and it in the end it either works the way it should or it doesn't, and that is solely a function of exactly how it was written. Computers do exactly as they are told, even if we want them to do something else! It has been my experience that the real ambiguity comes on the software definition side, where the people defining what the program is to do really have no idea exactly what they want it to do. Which ultimately leads to "it's just what I asked for, but not what I wanted!"
And Dan,
I totally agree on the giving clear instructions and setting expectations. Because of my laid-back personality, I tended to not want to do that with others because I don't prefer it when people are that way with me. But over time, I have found that a lot of people feel much more comfortable when they work under a more demanding boss, where everything is expected to be just so. So while it is not in my nature, I have learned to become a bit more demanding. I also think I made the same mistake with my children, who thankfully at least so far have turned out just great in most every way. But looking back, I think I did them no favors by being too easy going, and they probably would have been happier and more comfortable with having more clearly set limits at times, instead of just loose "guard-rails" that would only kick in if they veered far off-course.
-ZM
"It's just what I asked for, but not what I wanted!" I have not heard that one before, but I love it!
DeleteMy current team works mostly with internal stakeholders and for me its usually a lot of "... but that is not what I wanted" and than my PO and I have to remind them that it is what they asked for and insisted upon even after we told them that it will not solve the actual problem they have. I got promoted to tech lead last year and having to sit in on a lot of those meeting is definitely a huge downside. Though it's fun so see some self important middle manager struggle to deal with someone that doesn't participate in office politics, gives them honest answers and takes notes in meetings. It seems they are not used to it.
DeleteJimmy is an electrician. He climbs power poles and restores our power, a highly skilled blue collar worker.
ReplyDeleteI am in business management, climbing the ladder. I have learned to be very direct with the people I manage with clear expectations and also to speak up among my colleagues and show my superiors what I know and can do.
I doubt I could have become a disciplinary wife without launching my career. When I was a housewife I did not have the confidence to boss Jimmy around, nor would he have let me.
I asked Jimmy what his job has to do with DD and he laughed and said "absolutely nothing." I would say that the dangerous work he does requires a certain level of confidence that borders on arrogance. He also works with guys who are often disrespectful of women. That combination gets him in trouble with me. He hears bitch and cunt every day but that won't pass with me.
Several of you talk about being alphas at work and then submitting to your wives at home. I guess that describes us too. That has been a big surprise to me, that he submits to my punishments when he could so easily refuse. I see it as a sign of respect, which is what I am after.
Belle
Thanks, Belle. It makes sense to me that your job and your new DD role reinforce each other.
DeleteHi Belle,
DeleteGreat point about confidence! I think that their are probably quite a few husbands who really want DD, but their wives simply don't have the confidence to effectively step into that role. It takes a huge amount of confidence to do it and do it convincingly, even when he is asking for it.
But careers can play a huge role in building self-confidence. So women who are in careers characterized by power and responsibility are more likely to have or to have gained the self-confidence needed to actually become a disciplinary wife if their husbands were to request it.
-ZM
Well, first to contribute to the data set. I’m a 56 yo Sr Exec in institutional Finance. Was with a large firm in “the city” then a cpl years ago I went out on my own and started a boutique servicing the space so I guess add entrepreneur. I fall under the sub-set of stereotypical Alpha male with an extremely high stress lifestyle with a job where being in control is part of the role. When I was newly discovering this world …and assuming I was some sort of complete freak… I came across Aunt Kaye’s site. I remember reading the survey and being shocked thinking to myself as I read page after page of the “profile” ….OMG they’re describing ME!!!! Married 30 years to awesome woman, kids, dog, white picket fence. Wife is a stay at home mother and very gentle and “motherly” w the kids and unfortunately “intimately” she is very prudish. Her big Alpha male hub introducing this to her out of the blue in our early 50s wasn’t easy….for either of us. Her getting to where she is now with all “this, which is “OK…you need it so ,I’ll do it for you” has been quite the endeavor. The good news seems to be that once you get over that hump then it moves a bit more naturally down the path that once she gets completely comfortable and acclimated w the actual spanking part then she’s in the position to be able to start enjoying it, which fingers crossed gets her to being able to actually discipline. Everyone here has been such a great help with this journey over the years. I’m glad I hung in there as I went through the natural ups and downs it takes to get to there.
ReplyDeleteI can’t even explain what happened about 10 years ago when the switch flipped in my head and I became more and more aware of this desire I couldn’t understand. Starting back in college and for a bit after, had a few GFs that was playfully and erotically Dom with and spanked to an extent. Once married, that all went dormant until the eve of the evil INTERNET which for the first time made this accessible to us suburban Husbands behind the closed door of our office. These new feelings made me very conflicted. I had bucked any form of authority all my life and now I was craving it….from my WIFE??? The thought of someone else being in charge of me, having to be accountable to them has always been the worst thing I could imagine, it felt made me weak. Now I’m asking for that????
Over the past few years my wife hit a new stage in life, which isn’t uncommon…she was always thin but recently has become truly fit. With age and her feeling physically strong has clearly given her a new sense of confidence. She’s a stay at home Mom but recently had to take over a meaningful role of authority in her family so have enjoyed hearing her speak in a new tone and directness to outside advisors and even some family. It’s been a bit exciting that now it’s being using w me at times I’m anticipating that tone and her new found willingness to swing the paddle will be merging soon.
"I had bucked any form of authority all my life and now I was craving it….from my WIFE??? The thought of someone else being in charge of me, having to be accountable to them has always been the worst thing I could imagine, it felt made me weak. Now I’m asking for that????" I totally get that paradox. I have had a true hatred of authority my entire life, yet I gravitate to this?
DeleteYeah, me too. I hate authority, yet I crave it in this case??? I am so far from even starting to understanding myself...!
Delete-ZM
Dan, ZM, et al,
DeleteI have struggled to understand this in myself as well. The best answer I have uncovered is that it is a psychological “reaction formation” broadly defined as strong conscious feelings that are opposite of equally strong unconscious feelings. While my public persona is strongly anti-authoritarian and I abhor abuses of authority, simultaneously in private I wish to obey my wife, submit to her authority and be subject to her punishment. It’s an utter contradiction unless one sees the resistance to authority as compensation for the deep unconscious need to accept authority. In effect I rail against authority but deeply need a loving partner to exercise it over me. My feeling is that I fear authority while having a deep need for it. It’s not logical and is certainly paradoxical but much human behavior is paradoxical and little of it is logical
Alan
Hi Alan,
DeleteEverything I know about psychology is just about nothing, but I think (very uninformed opinion) that what you wrote makes sense. Probably many if not most of the paradoxes that we have discussed could be explained by some subconscious need, fear, or desire that manifests itself in a way that seems to contradict our conscious thinking.
"My feeling is that I fear authority while having a deep need for it." I think that might well be true for me as well. Many of the things that I fear, I also genuinely want or need. I was always kind of stuck on school punishments, high school hazing, and later fraternity initiations and all other "coming of age" rituals. I think the reason I thought about them so much (perhaps even obsessed about them) is because I was very afraid of them and the attendant humiliation. This deep-seated fear both kept me from experiencing any of these things, and at the same time paradoxically turned all these things into fantasies or fetishes that I wanted to experience (when it was too late to do so).
-ZM
For me its more about trust. I trust my wife to make good decisions and not abuse the authority we have given her. But I always hate being under the authority of someone that I don't know well enough to trust, or worse that I know is not trustworthy.
DeleteI am a scientist and my wife is a nurse practitioner. But I am skeptical there is a meaningful relationship between chosen professions and an interest in adult spanking Рalthough there may be correlations in some groupings attributable to intervening variables. I believe strongly that there is a genetic influence on spanking interest, likely a complex interplay of experience/exposure and genetic makeup. Once I believed the genetic influence was fairly rare and expressed in behavior even more rarely. Now I have come to think it is much broader dependent on experiences one has and acts upon both in childhood and as an adult. Many women on this blog alone have reported discovering spanking through their partner and discovering to their surprise a growing interest in it. That is what I mean by triggered by the environment. This in my opinion is experience triggering a response prepared by genetics. (Our genes after all are an enormous repository of non-determinist possibilities. It is the environment (experience) that determines which are expressed and how. Is it possible all this can lead to choice of a profession especially for people with an early strong predilection to spanking? It is of course but ones profession derives from such a m̩lange of planned and random events that it seems unlikely Power Рits exercise and its surrender does seem to be a consistent theme among adults attracted to spanking. If there is an occupational link that is the direction it lies
ReplyDeleteAlan
Hi Alan. It's true that many women on here discovered DD through their husbands, then over time grew interest in it themselves. But, why would that kind of developing interest indicate a genetic trigger and not simply the natural process of becoming more open to experiences over time, or possibly getting concrete benefits from the spanking or just learning to like having authority or control?
DeleteWhere I do think genetics may have a role is with respect to temperament. Temperament clearly does have major genetic components and seems to be more or less hard-wired. I wouldn't be surprised if some temperament trait could express itself in *both* career choice and interest in DD. For example, if you are hardwired to be excitable or stressed, that might lead you to gravitate toward fast-paced or intense job environments, which could in turn exacerbate a desire to give back some control and to have someone apply guardrails so the stress does not get out of hand.
Hi Alan,
Delete"Power – its exercise and its surrender does seem to be a consistent theme among adults attracted to spanking. If there is an occupational link that is the direction it lies." I absolutely agree with this.
As far as genetic factors, who knows? I guess you would have to study people who were genetically related but who grew up in different environments to really know. I tend to think that environment while growing up plays a huge role. Were you exposed to spanking? Was it used in your school? Was it used in your home? Did you see it change other people's behavior? If you were spanked, did it change your actions or attitudes? If your parents spanked you, did you ultimately feel more loved because they disciplined you, or did you end up resenting it?
My ex-wife is a teacher, she can be extremely demanding and she expects a lot from others, and she is very frustrated by the lack of justice in the world. However, due to childhood experiences, she has a huge aversion to spanking, so even though she would have been a natural in the role of disciplinarian, she quite simply would not and could not ever go there. Given different childhood experiences, would have my ex-wife embraced discipline, rather than being totally averse to it? Who knows?
On the other hand, my current wife had little exposure to corporal punishment as a child. She was not spanked in the home, and in school it was mostly the boys who felt the shame of public humiliation and the intense burn of the switch on their hands. So she didn't have a lot of experience with it, and no real negative experiences, and at the same time probably saw that most of the boys that were punished deserved it, and maybe even acted better if only temporarily. Consequently, she had a pretty clean slate experientially, and so then her personality traits have allowed her to quickly and effectively become a great disciplinary wife.
I am not sure about the interplay between genetics and experience in creating the desire for DD or the receptiveness to administering DD, but would love it if more studies were done about it, since I really want to better understand what motivates this.
-ZM
Art works in sales and is used to being held accountable. He has quotas and he is paid on commission. He has a territory he has to manage and keep those clients happy. He is required to contact his clients on a regular schedule. While I did not realize this for many years, I think he actually likes being held accountable and felt a bit lost when nobody was holding him accountable for his attitude at work and at home. Finally I did so by leaving with the kids. That is what triggered our DD and a much happier home life. He also is less arrogant at work.
ReplyDeleteI have been a stay-at-home mom for many years. That, of course, is a career! I am very good at managing our household and managing our children. I have been the primary disciplinarian and have spanked them all, just as I was spanked as a child. But because I saw Art as the head of the household I never thought that I could or should take the paddle to my husband, until he asked me too. He has turned that authority over to me and I have taken it like a duck to water. Paddling him is just one of my family management duties now! So it does fit well into my career and into his.
Liz
I definitely understand Art's desire for accountability. I think when you have a high-pressure job, it can be really stressful to try to hold yourself accountable, yet you kind of need to hold yourself to high standards in order to be successful. There is something freeing in having someone else step in to hold you accountable so you don't always have to do it yourself.
DeleteThis is Arthur. Interesting, I never thought of it as a desire for accountability. More a desire for order and structure. I am very orderly. The shirts in my closet are organized by sleeve-length and then color. My shoes are in a straight line in the closet.
DeleteMy main issue at work has been meetings that get very disorderly and overlong. I think our supervisors do a poor job of directing meetings, and sometimes have our team meet without a supervisor present. They think we will come up with better ideas without direction. What a joke. It is in those meetings that I get extremely impatient and make sarcastic/arrogant comments. To me that is more a desire for order than it is for accountability.
When I think about home, the times I have gotten sarcastic and arrogant with the kids is when they have been disordered. For instance, I got furious at my teenage son when I went to take a shower and couldn't find a towel and he had 11 towels in his room! I was right to be angry but not to keep making sarcastic comments for the next several days. I needed the paddle to shut my mouth.
The accountability I have ceded to my wife and her paddle helps me deal with the disorder I experience at work and at home. It teaches me that I can bite my tongue and put up with something that makes me uncomfortable. If I don't, the paddle makes me MORE uncomfortable. So yes, I appreciate her holding me accountable.
Art
Rosa is currently a hospital clerical worker but had many different types of jobs prior to that, and I'm a retired retail manager who started in visual merchandising and ended in HR.
ReplyDeleteComing from HR, I'm surprised you like being on the receiving end of the paddle. I'm sure many HR people would just love to keep a paddle in their desk drawer and be able to use it!
DeleteMy role at work helped me once I got past speaking up when I didn't like something. Relationships were the one place where I wasn't assertive or demanding, since I was afraid if I made a boyfriend uncomfortable or if he saw me as criticizing, I'd lose him. It was husband (then boyfirend) always telling me "If you got something to say, say it. Be honest." that finally got me to speak up. Once I spoke up and added it to what I've posted about before, I took quickly to the role of Disciplinarian.
ReplyDeleteI can go from giving direction in a calm and business like way to speaking sharply when I get an argument or a protest. This happens at work a lot. I tell someone under me to do something, I get blowback, so I calmly tell him that this is my decision and it's going to happen. If he keeps up the argument, I can speak sharply to him "I SAID this is how it is, now are you going to do it or do I need to get someone here who will? If I have to do that, you will be out of a job."
Shortly after I started administering discipline to my then boyfriend, I saw I was getting better at it by doing with him like I did with subordinates at the hotel. I calmly lecture him about his disobedience and how it's going to stop and what's now going to happen because he disobeyed me. Of course, he begs and protests, but a sharp "I SAID......" comes right out.
Hi Cecilia. Tone definitely gets the message across!
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteHi Cecilia,
DeleteUsing that "command voice" certainly can snap somebody to attention. My wife doesn't really use it at all, or at least very very seldom, but I can see how it would definitely be a game changer.
-ZM
Joe2 here,
ReplyDeleteI am a project manager with a never-ending list of tasks and hard deadlines. A very significant part of my income is from bonuses based on meeting those hard deadlines. I can say without a doubt that my job threw me into spanking. I have been told that I have been in my position more than twice as long as any of my predecessors and almost all of them took medication to deal with stress. A long hard spanking is like unwinding a spring.
However, my wife and I have been trying something different when a spanking cannot occur due to children in the house. One day, one of our kids was sick, so my wife had focused on caring for her all day (I took the care of the other kids that evening). I had a real work problem on my hands that was not going to be resolved until the next day. And because the sick child could be in our room without notice, a spanking for me was not going to occur. I was twisting and turning on the bed; which was giving my wife no rest, so she said, “I am going to tie you up and you will sleep on the floor” (on the side away form the door)- and she did. For some inexplicable reason, I quickly fell asleep and was well rested the next morning. It isn’t as good as a spanking, but it works. I don’t know why it works, but my wife has restrained me and made me sleep on the floor several times with the same result.
Interesting. I suspect being tied up would make me so paranoid I wouldn't sleep at all.
DeleteJoe2 here,
DeleteDan Just remember- Just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean someone isn’t out to get you.
The only reason that I can give about why restraining works is because at a subconscious level I can divorce myself from the issue at hand (after all, I’m restrained- right?) and get a good rest.
Well.....babies get swaddled, wrapped tightly in a blanket, to sleep?
DeleteFor those for whom it works , I suspect being tied up physically triggers an unconscious release of internal struggling, i.e. the mind reflects what is happening in the body - and you can relax ( or surrender) and go to sleep if you want to or are tired. I know nothing about bondage but something like this ( release and surrender) may happen in bondage. Maybe someone with some knowledge of bondage will comment
DeleteAlan
Alan
Interesting, because I have seen a number of captions that suggest somebody is tied up and has to sleep that way, and I have always thought that I could never fall asleep if I were in that situation (since everything must be PERFECT for me to sleep as it is). But now you guys have me wondering if maybe I am wrong about how it would play out? We have never done any bondage at all, other than maybe tying hands or blindfolding for 10 minutes or something, and even that has been only a few times.
Delete-ZM
Hi Dan,
ReplyDeleteFirst I will talk generally, and then about myself in a separate comment. And I am going to use “dominant” and “submissive,” recognizing that they are not always that applicable or maybe even the right words at all, but they still have some usefulness while talking about DD.
For the dominant partner in a DD relationship, they usually are not the ones who have a “thing” for DD to start with. Rather, it is usually the recipient that is the one who seeks the DD relationship. So on the surface it might seem like there is not likely to be any sort of pattern for who might become a disciplinarian, yet I believe there is.
A more submissive person might tend to select a more dominant partner if they recognize their need for authority and imposed boundaries. And more dominant people tend to find themselves in positions of authority, so I would not be at all surprised if the disciplinarian might also have a career as a manager, lawyer, executive, or something like that. So even though they may not be the ones seeking DD, powerful women might be preferred by submissive partners who are seeking DD.
Also, even though the dominant partner (the female in most of our cases) might not be the one that sought out DD, it still holds that people in certain careers might be more receptive to DD based on their workday experiences. The obvious examples I think of are teachers, judges, police, etc. These people are placed in authority over people, but often might be frustrated because justice is certainly not always served. So if their partner were to ask them to consider becoming a disciplinarian, they might be very open to it because finally they would see some real justice, with consequences flowing directly from actions.
For the partner seeking DD, it is probably more complicated because of the wide range of motivations behind needing/wanting it. But still I can see at least two ways that career choices might be related.
First off, people in very high stress jobs might seek the temporarily giving up control afforded by DD. I am not sure about DD, but I can say in the BDSM world, I have heard that it is very common that a client of a dominatrix will be some high powered executive or big political figure. If that also carries over to DD, then in these cases these guys are the typical “alpha” males, who are normally not submissive in any way. They may not have even had any real attraction to DD, spanking, or anything like that until they were pushed there by the pressures of life. For them, DD can be like a pressure release valve or an escape from stress. Anyway, this suggests powerful people who probably have careers with lots of stress and high responsibility.
On the other hand, guys that grew up fascinated by DD or being spanked/punished might tend to be a bit more on the submissive side of the spectrum. They just might prefer that someone else does the leading. And consequently they might choose careers that are more defined by what they do rather than how they lead. Tech people and other people in “functional roles” fit well into this category.
And of course, there is a LOT of space in between, where maybe a lot of us best fit.
-ZM
Addressing teachers/principals specifically, you said: “For spankers, teachers and principals are almost too easy (as evidenced in part by the sheer volume of spanking art representing school spankings). I also wonder whether, even if the stereotype may once have had some basis in reality, does it today when corporal punishment in schools is not longer prevalent? I could see how it might still have some validity, given that as Liz has pointed out husbands sometimes act like overgrown boys who need boundaries, and teachers have daily experience keeping such boys under control. However, might having to exercise control like that in their day job make them averse to having to take on similar responsibilities at home?”
ReplyDeleteFirst off, the “sheer volume of spanking art representing school spankings” is almost exclusively produced by discipline recipients (actual or wannabe) and not disciplinarians. So even though spanking might not be that prevalent in the schools today, it certain was when we were younger so the fantasies and thoughts remain. As to whether the stereotype still has validity since spanking is much less prevalent in schools today, I am not sure. I expect that for those teachers who did resort to the paddle in the past and witnessed its effectiveness, and who are currently forbidden from using or greatly restricted in using corporal punishment, they might be quick to adopt it if their at times childish husbands were to request it. Especially since while they may not be able to use it in school, they still have to deal with wayward children everyday, so probably wish they could reach for their paddle at times.
For those teachers or principals who still use corporal punishment at school, I am not sure if that would make them quicker to use it or more averse to using it at home. It would probably depend on just how effective they find it to be when they use it at school, and just how annoyed they become with their husbands. If they see that paddling is very effective at changing students’ behaviors and attitudes, and if they have a very cranky husband, I can see them quickly choosing the known-effective course of action. On the other hand, if they detest having to spank students at school, and if their husband pesters them about also disciplining them, I guess it could be seen as an unwelcome chore.
-ZM
And finally, for myself, I studied physics but have always worked as an engineer of some sort. I have started a couple of companies, and have been CEO of a smaller company and director of another, but CEO doesn’t really fit my type; I can do it, but I certainly don’t love it and don’t thrive in that position. Currently, I am CTO of a technology company, which for me is the ideal combination of technology and responsibility. I get to stay actively involved in all aspects of engineering and technology development, but my position also affords me a lot of influence, so I can guide where the company is going, both technology-wise and also strategically. And having also done the CEO thing, I am really enjoying not having to have that level of control right now, and I have realized I am much better suited for (and happier in) my current role.
ReplyDeleteI tend to be a strange mix of submissive and dominant in my personality, so probably the submissive aspects attract me to DD and anything involving exchange of power or relinquishing control. I think I chose an engineering career because technology comes pretty easy to me and I am generally not too bad at it, plus I like the predictability and order that come from math and science. Interestingly, most engineers that I have known are quite a bit more methodical than I am, and also they are generally more conservative in most every way. So while I have always worked as an engineer (or now CTO), I am still more like a crazy inventor than the typical engineer. One area that shows this is chaos. I have always been the smartest guy in the room, but also surrounded by non-ending chaos. That chaos extends to all parts of life, and while it may or may not affect the desire for DD, it certainly drives the need for DD. I need to be held accountable and to live under authority or my life quickly feels like it is spinning out of control, largely because it actually is!
However, while I might do best when accountable to other or under authority, I most definitely do NOT like authority of almost any type and I am generally a rebel in most regards, especially with regard to politics or social or governmental controls. I also rebel against authority in the workplace, and for that matter everywhere else, unless I clearly see the logic behind the rule. So this leads to many contradictions. For example, I would never run a red light, change lanes without signaling, or park in a handicap spot, but I would also not hesitate to go several times the posted speed limit or drive ultra-aggressively, as long as I believe I am in control.
My wife is a customer service agent, but that is mostly a result of where we live and the limited job opportunities here. She is very much a manager, whether she is working as one or not. She has a degree in management, and she is very “take charge” in her approach to life. She expects a lot of others and holds them and herself to a high standard. She doesn’t shy away from confrontation. In short, her career probably has no tie to her affinity for DD, but her personal characteristics make her a natural at it.
-ZM
Two things ZM
ReplyDelete1. I have certain expertise in personality types and I tend to agree that for most women their born-with wiring type makes it much easier to take on that role (being a natural). But there also has to be the ability to be a bit creative. However, in my worldview, regardless of "naturalness" it's love, generosity, wanting to be there for their partner and willing to stretch to do that, that makes the difference.
2. I have worked in quite a few high tech companies, often extensively with "C" levels. I usually enjoyed their intelligence. But it sure makes me happy to know that some of them, somewhere out there, are getting the spankings they need and deserve. :)
Hi Tomy,
DeleteI agree that the desire by a partner to really want to be there for their partner and to meet all their needs, motivated out of love, is the deciding factor and that this can outweigh the "natural" factor. Being a natural at it just makes it easier to assume that role comfortably. But if I had to choose between having a willing wife who is not necessarily a natural or an unwilling wife who would be a natural, it would be no choice at all. I am fortunate to have found someone who is both very willing and very much a natural.
And hahaha for the C-level people comment :-) I think that part of the ego that elevates one into that position also can make them a pain to work with at times, so perhaps they deserve to also experience some pain in their backsides!
-ZM
I think my temperament is to not be a leader but rather to be in service to others. But in raising children, serving them requires me to hold authority over them. It's rather paradoxical. I don't want to be anybody's boss, but I do provide a lot of leadership and I don't mind doing it because I am serving them.
ReplyDeleteI feel that way about my husband too. This may sound strange to some of you, but paddling him is a service I am providing to help him be a better man. A service that he requested of me. So while I do hold authority and power over him during those moments, I am doing it at his request and I still see him as the leader of our family. In the practice of our religion, a wife is to do as her husband requests unless that request goes against God's law. He is supposed to be a servant-leader, and make appropriate and loving requests of me, and I am supposed to be a servant-follower, fulfilling those appropriate and loving requests. So we both are serving each other and our children. He has requested me to hold him accountable for his arrogance, and since that request is certainly within God's laws then I should honor that request ... and paddle his behind plenty hard when needed!
Liz
This is why we want to keep our DD asexual. Making it sexy confuses the issue of our purpose, at least for us.
DeleteLiz
Hi Liz,
DeleteI totally understand the servant leadership model and don't find it the least bit strange that you can both punish him when necessary and still view him as the leader of the family. I don't see any real contradiction in this, particularly since he has asked you to do this to help hold him accountable. By doing this, you are helping to meet his needs and helping him to become an even better leader.
What I don't totally understand is "this is why we want to keep our DD asexual. Making it sexy confuses the issue of our purpose, at least for us." I am not trying to argue or to be in any way critical, but genuinely want to understand why you think that the experience needs to remain non-sexual to preserve the character and fidelity of it, at least for you and your husband? Is this tied to your religious beliefs, or is it just what you guys have determined from your discussions with each other about DD?
-ZM
If the punishment is strictly for behavior modification, then we feel it shouldn't be a turn-on, which seems to add all kinds of complications in terms of the motivations for both the spankee and the spanker. I want to know that he isn't acting out to get a fetish fix. And that I am truly trying to help him improve his behavior, not get a fix of my own. It seems so much simpler and straightforward that way.
DeleteI don't think it is connected to our religious beliefs. He spanks me erotically, and we consider that within our beliefs, so I guess the reverse could be true. I just can't see how true punishment can also be erotic, though I know many of you have experience with that and believe the two aspects can coexist.
Liz
Hi Liz,
DeleteMy wife and I have dealt with this issue differently at different times in our relationship. Currently she MAY allow love-making after discipline ( she always does "after care" of some kind), subject to my agreeing to her per-conditions. But I tend to agree with you at this point that sex after a paddling probably doesn't work where the two of you are right now. But for the record, making love to my wife after a spanking is a deeply spiritual experience for both or us and if it works otherwise it is something you might hold out as a future option. It definitely doesn't need to diminish the disciplinary effects of spanking while it promotes a deep bonding that for us at least makes discipline a growth experience
Alan
Hi Liz,
DeleteThank you for your reply. Your explanation was helpful, as now I understand where you are coming from.
I think that one of the primary paradoxes that surrounds DD, at least for many if not most people, is just how can something be both a fantasy and also still be a real punishment. I can't speak for anyone else, but I can say for me, it definitely works that way. I both seem to crave punishments, and then don't want them AT ALL when they are imminent or happening.
I can't really explain it, other than I think that my craving is more for being under her control and for her to have and exercise authority over me for these brief periods of time, and not for the punishment itself. The punishments are more a show of her authority, and in a way make the authority more real. I don't want to be punished... She has authority... She punishes me even though I don't want it (at the time)... Therefore, the power is obviously real....
And for us, the whole power shift brought on by DD is just a huge turn-on, but actual spankings are in no way a turn-on at least at the time, and I certainly want to avoid them. Desire being what they are, I don't think there is anything I could do to remove my fantasies about this power structure, so I guess it is a moot point.
"I just can't see how true punishment can also be erotic, though I know many of you have experience with that and believe the two aspects can coexist." Speaking for myself, I don't find punishment erotic at all AT THE TIME, but it is very much so thinking about it any other time, before or after. At the time, it is just painful and I desperately want it to be over quickly. And the fact that punishment is erotic for me when I think about it at other times (other than when it is actually happening) make the whole punishment that much more effective for me, since I tend to think about it a lot both leading up to and after it happens. Anyway, I guess that is just the way I am wired.
Reading again what I wrote, it seemed quite repetitive but I guess that is from trying to explain something that I simply don't fully understand myself.
Thanks again for your reply!
-ZM
Because spanking is a fetish for me, there would always be an erotic side and different than other kinds of punishment. As you say, ZM, before and after is an erotic experience for the mind, while the actual spanking is real physical punishment for the body, and also humility as the important emotional element. No matter how erotic the experience is in total, to me there’s not such a big paradox that spanking can’t be effective as punishment. We still face the reality that there’s a need for behavior modification and attitude adjustment, and through the ritualistic nature of corporal punishment that message is made clear. Punishment is just a way of arriving at a mutual agreement that change must happen. Nothing says it has to be only about pain.
DeleteLiz makes a good point about “acting out to get a fetish fix.” While I don’t see myself doing that, it seems like a possible problem. I think the solution would be to either accept that the fix is needed and indulge it, or find a way of punishing that doesn’t satisfy the fetish. Instead of trying to analyze it to death, punishment either promotes good discipline or it doesn’t. Let the results be your guide.
I think being sexually attracted to this scene is an advantage. For DD couples in a totally non-sexual dynamic, it must be more difficult to maintain the consistency and focus to implement discipline whenever it’s required. OTOH, if the whole discipline relationship is a turn-on, we’re always motivated by what makes us happy.
Dan,
ReplyDelete"So, give us the benefit of your observations and experiences with the role of our career and job choices play in Domestic Discipline."
My husband and I work in the technology field. We both have teams. I have a larger organization with more than one direct report and he has one work team. I never thought of any relationship between my career and being the leader as his disciplinarian and in a FLR. My husband is submissive at home. He successfully runs his project team. Maybe there is some relationship between professional positions and our personal lives, but I would really have to think about it. For now, I'll say my husband has become just a little more kinky as he got older. I was open to it. Why not? I'm boss.
We took some time off to go to our vacation home and do some hiking, sightseeing, and cooking outside before the busy season begins in our jobs. It was a nice change and a great chance for us to step away from any D/s and DD activities and just be husband and wife. I feel it is good to relax from time to time and healthy not hold my husband to set rules and duties constantly. How two people step out of DD and D/s roles, if they do, might be a subject for a future discussion.
CarolH.