“We are not won by arguments that we can analyse but by tone and temper, by the manner which is the man himself.” - Samuel Butler
Hello all. Welcome back to the Disciplinary Couples Club. Our weekly gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, Domestic Discipline relationships. I hope you all had a great weekend.
This was one of those weeks that leave me wondering how I can have little to do and still get nothing done. This is by far the longest really dry spell I’ve had at work. I keep telling myself that it’s the universes way of preparing me for a glide path into retirement or a significant change of direction, but it’s still really frustrating in the moment. And, it’s not just work. Between an injury I was recovering from, the Covid shutdown, and now sporadic and inconvenient gym access, I’ve pretty much let myself go physically, too. Funny how that can happen to the best of us, whether disciplined or undisciplined.
I also find myself failing in getting us back on track where DD is concerned, even though I undoubtedly could profit form it. I do think that the talk Anne and I had about amping up her control but scaling it back in some areas did, in fact, make her less inclined to take me to task on my binge drinking challenges, even after incidents that were pretty plainly excessive. That had me thinking all weekend about simply suggesting she take care of business. Yet, in the end, I didn’t. To a big extent, it was because Saturday I was really beaten up physically by some work around the house. The kind of work that six months ago I would have handled with ease but now left me sore and stiff all over. But, I think deep down inside it was because I have been talking a good game about knowing I need to get back on track, yet it’s hard to actually ask to be spanked, right?
The fact is, we’ve been out of
the habit for so many weeks now, it’s just hard to get started again. I got to thinking about that in relation to a
few comments last week about maintenance spankings. Brett brought them up as a category of “undeserved”
spanking. KD and I saw them as spankings
that really aren’t about deserving or not deserving but, rather, serve some different
purpose entirely. KD saw them as “preventative”
in nature:
Maintenance is a behavioral tool that can't really be defined by 'deserved' or 'undeserved' but rather whether it is effective as a preventative. As such, if it is an agreed-upon tactic, the underlying reason is valid even without an actual offense. The only thing that would make maintenance unfair would be if the behavior was not so deeply rooted that maintenance was necessary, and as such, the recipient didn't feel it was needed for good behavior to continue. However, it seems to me that most folks who practice maintenance do so because both parties find it effective and beneficial.
I came at them from a slightly different angle (while acknowledging we don’t really do them, seeing them as primarily about role enforcement, i.e. reinforcing her role as disciplinarian and his role in submitting to her decisions where discipline is concerned. I also see them having a role in just getting her used to thinking about spanking and discipline if it isn’t a firmly rooted habit yet.
It’s both interesting and a little depressing that the last time I did a topic on this was back in 2016, and or much the same reason I’m thinking about it now. What I said then was:
I have been concerned recently that despite some changes in our circumstances that should have opened up opportunities for making discipline more spontaneous and regular, that really has not been happening, despite both of us talking a lot about being committed to really amping up the FLR aspect of our relationship. Our best intentions notwithstanding, real life just keeps getting in the way. I also feel that while my wife is genuinely interested in taking on a much stronger FLR and HoH role, it just does not come naturally to her and having to constantly make decisions about whether to spank can lead to it not happening even when we both know it should.
As the situation became more frustrating, I thought back to some of the ways in which we established Domestic Discipline early on, when it was unnatural to both of us. One thing we did was to establish some formal structure and practices. Early on, we came up with a list of offenses, each of which had a presumptive minimum number of swats with the paddle associated with it. This served two purposes. First, it took away some of her concerns about how long or hard to spank or whether it might be too much, by setting an agreed upon floor. It also meant that if I had a bad week, with lots of bad behavior, the number of swats could get pretty scary, which would hopefully deter some of the behavior before it started. I had to give her a journal every week tracking the offenses and tallying the swats. And, it worked to a large extent. I think setting the minimum number of swats helped her get comfortable with delivering a real disciplinary spanking, by removing just a bit of the discretion.
Do you use maintenance spankings in your relationship, or other means of turning Domestic Discipline or her exercise of her authority into a habit? This obviously may not be an issue for those women who are naturally dominant and who exercise authority easily and naturally. But, I do think that incremental steps help to make authority and leadership a habit, and coming up with those incremental steps can require some thought and creativity.
By the way. We have a new potential Vice President here in the U.S. Doesn't she look like someone who might be capable of swinging a mean paddle.
And, also, thanks to all the kind words some of you left as we neared the end of the week. It's always appreciated. I hope you all have a great week!
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ReplyDeleteMaintenance spankings are very important in our 24/7 FLR. I may be repeating myself a bit, but some background is needed. We started our FLR and DD over 11 years ago. Naturally at the beginning, I was spanked often while learning her ways, likes and dislikes. As time went on, discipline spankings tapered off...to the point of nearly non-existence. We decided to institute a maintenance program. Neither of us wanted daily spankings and our busy lives did not lend itself to that. We also did not want to establish a "Maintenance Day" as life interrupts too often. Many of you know we adopted a random scheduling plan involving tossing of a single die to schedule the next maintenance spanking. It worked wonderful. Now as to the need for maintenance. We came up with 3 goals for the spankings. 1) To reinforce her role as being in charge and my role as submissive in our relationship. 2) To serve as a constant reminder to me of what is in store for any rule breaking or poor behavior. 3) To serve as a 'catch all' for any minor infractions which may not have warranted a discipline spanking at the time. Our maintenance program soon became the backbone of our relationship and to this day I am spanked on a regular basis for maintenance. Neither of us would have it any other way.
ReplyDeleteThat's interesting. We have had the same problem with trying to adopt any kind of set weekly schedule.
DeleteCan someone explain what makes maintenance more complicated than just spanking because you need or want regular spankings? I get that waiting for genuine punishment opportunities can be limited. As long as both partners agree to it, for whatever reasons, it seems so simple to me. What’s different than a BDSM scene? Maybe because it’s not something I would be interested in, I don’t get the need to rationalize it. Seems you want it, just do it.
ReplyDeleteHi Brett,
DeleteMaintenance exists in kind of a gray area because it is not tied to an action, or at least not one that has already happened, so that makes it somewhat different than routine DD. I know from previous posts that you come at DD from more of a parental discipline model, so just imagine if real parents were to insitute a program of "maintenance" spankings in their home! Note: I am not trying to go down the rabbit hole of parent-child spanking, but rather am saying just imagine maintenance in that setting, since it clearly shows how complicated it can be.
I agree that it is not that much different than a BDSM scene and like your pragmatic approach that "if you want it, just do it." For me, I don't think I would prefer receiving maintenance spankings, but that is just me.
-ZM
To Brett I say, yes and...
ReplyDeleteYes if can be that simple; in the right circumstances with people having that mindset. To state the very obvious, people are wired differently and although the rationalizations/explanations/justifications can be an endless wormhole of discussion and controversy, it's all valid and important.
Personally, I have been in both places. But 95% of the time, I'm one of those guys who is, or I should say was, in it for the disciplinary scene. For me, spanking without some kind of genuine disciplinary energy is, well, boring even it it hurts. Now there have been a few times when I had to ask for it. But at those times I was filled with a need for it becuase of somehting I had done or not done.
Hi Tomy,
DeleteTotally agree, since it is the same for me. Interestingly enough, I spent most of my life thinking I was into spanking and/or domination. Only in the past few years, both from now having a willing (and enthusiastic) partner, and from discussions on this blog, have I realized that for me I don't really have a spanking fetish as much as a punishment fetish.
My wife will sometimes spank me just because she wants to, but that is more play, and she has the right to do that under our agreement, since she can spank anywhere, anytime, as much as she wants, for any reason or for no reason at all. But in the end, when she does that it just comes across as femdom play, and while it can be a turn-on too, it is nowhere near as impactful as when she administers a real punishment for a real reason.
-ZM
ZM, I didn't have your early interest in spanking, but to the extent my DD interest is fetish-based, for me too it is about punishment, accountability, etc. and not so much about spanking per se.
DeleteAs you wrote years ago, the maintenance spankings were educational in terms of learning to administer a disciplinary spanking. We went through a long period of this. Maintenance spanking never really worked for us. Mrs.Lion never managed to give them the same force as punishment. We finally abandoned them.
ReplyDeleteWe struggle with how to keep the disciplinary "edge". Since the maintenance spankings didn't work, we can go for some time with the paddles gathering dust. As time passes, she is less likely to punish me even if deserved.
It is definitely very easy to get out of the habit.
DeleteI guess virtually all of our paddlings can be considered maintenance, since we come at it from the preventative aspect. To me this is much better than waiting until Art is arrogant at work or home and punishing him for it. The way we do it, he most of the time isn't arrogant because the paddling reminds him not to be. Isn't that far better than waiting until the arrogance has displayed itself?
ReplyDeleteMaybe it's because I grew up with spanking, but I don't have to work hard to get myself in the mindset to do it. It's not that big a deal. Of, it's Monday morning, go get your paddle. Or he just brings it to me. (Until coronavirus, that is.) I don't really understand the women who have a big problem with it and have to work themselves up to it. He asked me to do it and it works, so what's the big deal? We punish our husbands other ways, even if we don;t want to admit that we do, and this way resolves the conflict much more quickly and always in my favor. Come on, ladies!
Our issue is doing any kind of spankings while the kids are home 24/7. That has become quite the hassle. Our schools are planning to reopen next week on a part-time basis. That should give us more opportunity for preventative DD.
Liz
"We punish our husbands other ways, even if we don;t want to admit that we do, and this way resolves the conflict much more quickly and always in my favor." Isn't that the truth? I think that there are many men who if they heard about DD would quickly say "there is no way that I would ever let my wife spank me." But I have a feeling that if you talked to them about passive aggressive behavior, the silent treatment, or being relegated to the couch or guest bedroom for several nights, many men might prefer to get it over with quickly and painfully. And the beauty of it is that DD enhances communication, where the more typical ways that women "punish" their husband are generally quite detrimental to communication and to the relationship in general.
Delete-ZM
For couples who want or adopt DD into their relationship, this may be the single strongest argument for its use: wives do punish husbands in a variety of ways, many of them injurious if not toxic to the relationship. I know personally if I was punished in many of the ways alluded to by ZM I would feel resentful and alienated. But spanking not only doesn't leave resentment, it expands communication and ultimately engenders more loving feelings. In the wider world, this works for any couple that include one or more "spanko". An interesting if currently unanswerable question is whether DD would/does work with non spanko couples who adopt it for its benefits even though eroticism isn't one of them.
DeleteAlan
My first reaction to this topic is that we don’t do maintenance spanking although we have tried it several different times using a scheduled day of the week or month. They didn’t work for either of us because they lacked a real disciplinary element becoming somewhat mechanical. But Liz’s post ( above) describing her discipline of Art as a “preventative “ spanking makes me think about the whole concept of maintenance because we definitely do preventative spankings, generally before events or travel in which I have historically misbehaved. They are not on any calendar and my wife decides each one on a case by case basis, but they really aren’t random. Before we set out on a multi-day road trip, certain holiday parties and certain family gatherings (depending on who is going to be there) the chances of a trip over her lap just before are very high. These do work for us on many levels because the focus is on particular behavior I am prone too in these situations. They spare her the frustration of my behavior and spare me from mentally beating up on myself afterward for acting like a jerk. They are win –win. But I never thought of them as maintenance as in “Today is Thursday and its eight ‘o clock, so get you pants down”. But Liz is right. Preventative spanking is maintenance and that whole category of discipline is broader than I thought.
DeleteAlan
I agree that avoiding the passive-aggressive dynamics that prevail in so many marriages is a huge benefit of DD when it is working. I think one reason DD was attractive to my wife when I presented it to her was that her parents were the epitome of the passive-aggressive approach.
DeleteNot that it matters, but I do still separate maintenance and preventative into two different categories. But, in Liz's case there is definitely a big overlap because of the regular schedule and the focus on preventing one identified behavior.
DeleteHi Dan and Club Compatriots - hope everyone is doing well during this Twilight Zone-ish year. I've written here before - a few times, I'm sure - that weekly maintenance spankings have been a part our DWC lifestyle since the very beginning - a good number of years ago now.
ReplyDeleteFor us, it is about maintaining a consistent atmosphere (or tone, to borrow Dan's description) of feminine disciplinary authority in the household. Susan putting my bare behind over her lap every Sunday evening for a good session with the Vermont bath brush helps ensure that our DWC lifestyle doesn't gradually dissipate - it maintains the habit of maternal style spanking discipline in our marriage. It undoubtedly does, however, also act as a general preventative in terms of keeping somewhat of a check on my behavior - as my awareness of Susan's standards for my behavior - and her method of enforcing those standards - are never far out of mind. (Maintenance spankings in our household are still "real spankings" - always at least a hundred whacks with the bath brush, and every whack hard enough to cause significant sting - and always a well reddened behind when she is done with me. Certainly not as severe as a punishment spanking - but intense enough that I certainly am aware that I have had my bare ass well paddled).
Additionally, as some of us have also discussed here before, my wife also utilizes "preventative" spankings as well - "remember to be good spankings" given before company arrives, or before leaving the house to visit friends or relatives. These are especially effective when given just before leaving the house on a road trip - as my bottom is constantly sore while driving for a good day or two. (I seem to recall that Alan's experience is very similar on this point).
Finally, I also appreciated the kind words directed toward Dan's efforts here at the end of last week's discussion. I think it is very fair to say that the Disciplinary Couples Club (blog) currently plays much the same role - in somewhat different format - that the Disciplinary Wives Club website did 20 years ago when Kay and Tomy were actively involved in leading the DWC, providing a forum for discussion of the DWC lifestyle by individuals who actually live the lifestyle.
Best to all. --al
Al, good to hear from you again. As discussed in the post, maintenance is something we have never really done, but your comment has me thinking we really need to introduce it. Consistency is our #1 challenge and always has been, and I do think the kind of regimen you describe would just keep it top of mind for both of us.
DeleteThe efficacy of "maintenance" comes down to whether a couple (person) is inclined towards routine or not. I also agree that in the case of folks for whom routine is not a desired thing, maintenance often comes down to being a kind of formalized way to make what one wishes to happen more often.....happen more often. But if a couple is not predisposed to routine, it often eventually fails. Some folks love routine, for others it is a burden that chafes. Some welcome the idea of certain nights or days equating to certain activities and others find that tedious. Neither is wrong. It's merely subjective preference.
ReplyDeleteI also agree with Dan's postulation that maintenance might be more about role enforcement than prevention. One can do preventive punishment outside of a "maintenance" arrangement......but then again, one can also do role reinforcement with a set schedule as well. So who knows?
I also found Brett's comment somewhat refreshing, even as it raised some issues of its own. One overriding implication of Brett's comment is the notion that DD is more than a little rationalized fetish. Or at least that what it seems to me. In the past i might have been inclined to argue that issue with vehemence, but now? I wonder if it isn't more true that a DD couple who has a certain disinclination towards BDSM to admit?
Like an altered scene from "The Big Chill" I find myself wondering: "is DD all just a massive rationalization for BDSM?" When I read so many sexualized DD situations, it adds fuel to the argument that despite assertions that it's all serious discipline to address behavior.......maybe it's not. Maybe....since so many have asserted that whatever a wife feels is misbehavior IS misbehavior..... that behavior is just something a couple can rely on to give rise to a desired spanking scene?
It all used to seem so real, but the more I do this the less "real" it now feels. Not that there's no real-world aspect to it, but more that that aspect is a positive byproduct of an inclination that would persist regardless of whether there was a behavior issue to address or not. It's like curing a bad habit might happen......or it might not.....and if it does, then great, and if it doesn't then 'great too' because it gives everyone an excuse to do what they desire in the first place. And if t works too well to cure bad habits, then well, we ill just find something new to focus on, or do "maintenance", or come up with some other rationalization to keep the activity going.
There are typos in the previous post: in the second paragraph it should be "one can also do role reinforcement WITHOUT a set schedule as well". In the last paragraph "t" should be "it" and "ill" should be "will". Sorry. Posting "post-cocktails".
DeleteHi KD,
DeleteGood insights! One of the things that I have thought about most with regards to DD is the interplay between reality and fantasy. As I mentioned last week, I spent most of my life thinking that I had a spanking fetish, but in fact I have realized that it is more of a punishment fetish. Yes, I do have a spanking fetish, but that scratch can be itched by looking at pictures and so on, since I really don't love getting spankings. Over time, I have realized that for me it is really much more about shifting the balance of power and the comfort that comes from having boundaries imposed and knowing that actions will have predictable and more immediate consequences. But there is a definite punishment fetish that comes with that. And because of some combination of spanking fetish and power/punishment fetish, I have little doubt that even if my behavior and attitudes were perfect from here on out, we would invent some reason to keep up some sort of disciplinary activity, whether purely as BDSM play or under the guise of "preventing bad behavior" or something.
For me there are still some pretty strong sexual undertones to this, and it is very much driven by fantasy/fetish. I expect that is true of many if not most of the people here, since if it is all really not that sexual and not a fetish, I just can't see having interest to come back here week after week, and putting in the effort to participate in discussion.
However, I am also keenly aware of very different feelings resulting from receiving a spanking as part of play versus receiving punishment for an actual infraction. For whatever reason they are as different as night and day, at least to me. So I can't deny the effect of reality on this whole thing, and in fact reality is what I continually crave.
Anyway, I can barely understand my own motivations even after all these years, let alone try to understand anyone else's!
-ZM
"The efficacy of "maintenance" comes down to whether a couple (person) is inclined towards routine or not." I hadn't thought of it that way, but it makes sense to me. We aren't big on routine, and I am someone who definitely chafes at routine and formality. That could be why maintenance never caught on for us, but also any kind of regimented reporting structure. Honestly, it's the same way in most aspects of my life. I am notoriously bad about keeping my calendar up to date, I hate standing meetings, I never ever adhere to our dress code, etc. Routine definitely feels like a positive evil to me most of the time.
Delete"One overriding implication of Brett's comment is the notion that DD is more than a little rationalized fetish." I don't have any doubt that is the case sometimes and for some people, but the problem I see with Brett's formulation is it suggests it is *only* rationalized fetish or is so for *everyone.* I find those generalized statements about others motivations tend to come the most from people who either (a) admit they don't actually have a DD relationship and have never received "real" spankings or punishment, or (b) those whose relationships pretty clearly began with fetish play and the DD seemed to get added at some point as a veneer on top of the underlying kink. In the end, I think there is a very big spectrum of mixtures of ordinary kinkiness, spanking fetish, need for accountability and boundaries, desires for re-parenting or making up for a chaotic childhood, etc. I honestly lose patience pretty quickly with the "I'm not in a DD relationship but let me tell you all what motivates yours . . ." comments. Everyone remember A Husband Who Knows (It All)?
I'm not sure if Brett meant "all". I certainly have seen enough to know there is no "all" on most anything......except dying perhaps.
DeleteMotivations are rampant and not always sexual, some even find it an imperative from a god. I fall into your second category pretty neatly, but when it feels real, it certainly feels real. I just wonder. As for my generalizations, I don't just use my own personal experience but also what I've seen others say. While nothing is 100%, there's a lot of sexual vibe among the crowd here. Perhaps even more than I see with myself. As you know, I have been able to compartmentalize "Spanking-with a capital S" as motivated by a lot of things.....from sex.....to good semi-clean fun among friends and a lot in-between. My only disagreement with you on the pervasiveness of sex as primary motivator is not with the avoidance of "all" but where you say "some", I think it's quite a bit more than "some". In fact from what I've seen around in all the years I've been doing this and writing and talking about it, is that the "some" applies more to the non-sexually motivated than the other way around. But again, it's not a scientific survey and is weighted by the anecdotal. But, to be fair, in about 20+ years of just "dd-talk" alone, not BDSM,......it's a LOT of anecdote. Just look at the plethora of M/f DD blogs and tell me those ladies aren't sexually motivated. ;-)
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DeleteI don't disagree with a lot of this, and you're right that ultimately all we have to work with are anecdotes. But, that's inevitable. There isn't a lot of real academic work or statistical surveys work out there on adult spankings, period, and virtually none that I'm aware of on the very tiny subcategory of disciplinary spankings.
DeleteI don't disagree that sex is a part of the motivation, but I'm not sure there is anyone among our current contributors who says it's not, other than perhaps Liz and Art, and given how they got to DD I have no reason to question their description of their own relationship dynamic. Where I object is when the disciplinary or accountability aspect gets characterized negatively as a rationalization. Is it for some? Sure. But, your premise that it may be a rationalization for nearly everyone, or at least for a very large majority, would require me to accept that some very thoughtful people who have been doing this for years and have spent lots and lots of time pondering why they want this actually lack all self-awareness. Sorry, but I'm not going to concede that someone who doesn't really know me has more insight into what makes me tick than I do, and certainly not that people for whom DD is admittedly only a fantasy have insight into the inner motives of those who have been doing it for decades.
Why are rationalizations a negative characterization? Rationalizations are.....as Jeff Goldblum said in the Big Chill, "more important than sex". You seem to be getting agitated over something that isn't there. (And that's usually my thing! LOL)
Delete>>>>>But, your premise that it may be a rationalization for nearly everyone, or at least for a very large majority, would require me to accept that some very thoughtful people who have been doing this for years and have spent lots and lots of time pondering why they want this actually lack all self-awareness.<<<<<<
First, I said that it is probably SEXUALLY MOTIVATED for "most". And not sexually motivated for "some". That's clearly laid out in the comment: "pervasiveness of sex as primary motivator." And I stand by that and continue to point to our own community as evidence for it. Secondly, you are right that "some" people have put a lot of thought into this. However, if I had a nickel for every comment along the lines of, "hey I don't know whether it's this or that but I know it works for me and I like it, and that's all I need to know", my retirement would be more financially secure! LOL
Lastly, I have known you long enough to know some things.....if your own revelations are accurate, but I don't presume to know everything. And I readily concede that you aren't 'typical' of what's out there. Even here.
Maybe it's me but you seem to be annoyed with me over stuff I'm NOT saying.
You know that I love that line from The Big Chill. But, I still see a negative connotation in your comments and especially in Brett's, because they both seem to be saying that people who say they are doing something like maintenance because it works are really just scratching a sexual itch and, hence, living in denial about their "real" motivations. Not sure how else to take a line like: "One answer that makes sense to me is that, when the craving for spanking is tied to discipline, then a pretense is needed." That's obviously his line and not yours, though the theme seems to be the same or very similar.
Delete>>>>>>>Not sure how else to take a line like: "One answer that makes sense to me is that, when the craving for spanking is tied to discipline, then a pretense is needed." That's obviously his line and not yours, though the theme seems to be the same or very similar.<<<<<<
DeleteHonestly? I see this as a mere logical statement of fact. IF a spanking craving or fetish is inextricably linked to "discipline" that itch will not be scratched unless there is some offense to focus on. In other words a spanking fetishist may need nothing more than a willing spanker, but a discipline fetishist needs a reason for that spanking as well as the sensation itself. What that line does NOT say is that such a things is true for all, or all DD people are closet fetishists, or anything other than the words that are there.
As for the overall sentiment on denial of real motivations? Well, again.....nothing is 100%, but I see quite a bit of evidence in statements here and there over time that reek of precisely that for quite a few people. Even MYSELF! I also see others who fully admit it. But again, your mileage may vary. And so again.....the observation is an opinion based on what I see, hear, and sometimes feel myself even ABOUT myself. So it's just honesty, not negativity.....unless one sees such a connection as inherently negative. To me it's more of "it is what it is" even as I admit the "is" is often speculation since there is very little to cite objectively or scientifically. But isn't that sort of speculation what a discussion is about? And even if it's true.....will that mean what we here do is no longer valid or desirable? Even if its roots are at some point shown to be complex rationalizations? I know even if someone could prove that what Rosa and I do is all rooted in some weird psychosis well beyond rationalization of a fetish......we wouldn't give up what we do.
This is Arthur. What I do find rather fascinating and unexplainable is that there seems to be nothing sexual when Liz paddles me - but plenty sexual when I spank her (which always happens in bed). All I can say is that the human is a complicated animal.
DeleteI actually am very glad that my paddlings don't have a sexual component because I think that would take away from the impact and success. I want the focus to be totally on my arrogance, with no side issues and certainly no turn-on for either party.
Arthur
Hi Arthur,
DeleteYou are absolutely right that the human is a complicated animal!
Based on comments over time, I feel pretty comfortable saying that ALMOST all posters on here acknowledge that there is a significant sexual element to their DD, and I am one of them. However, over the five years that I have been coming to this blog, there has typically been one or maybe two posters at any given time for whom DD is not sexual at all, so while for the majority there is at least some erotic element, there are also some (like yourself) for whom the whole process is completely non-erotic.
For me, I simply can't imagine DD if there was no sexual component, since the very fact that it is sexual for me makes it hugely impactful. When my wife speaks to me through my deepest desires and fantasies, it gets through my thick skull. I expect, but of course cannot know, that if it wasn't sexual for me in any way, then I might have lost interest sometime along the way, knowing myself as I do.
But the thing that is interesting about all this is just that it is what it is. I cannot know what it would be like if DD was not a turn-on at all, and presumably you can't know what it would be like if it were a turn-on for you. Yet here we are, on the same blog, sharing experiences that are both very similar and different all at once. I am glad that even though we humans are complex creatures who are all wired differently, we can find common ground and share common experiences, and somehow find things that work to enrich our lives!
-ZM
>> Not sure how else to take a line like: "One answer that makes sense to me is that, when the craving for spanking is tied to discipline, then a pretense is needed."
DeleteHere’s the way to take it. “One answer” means one explanation that applies to some number of people who use the word maintenance to characterize spanking on a regular basis that is not sexual foreplay. While I have no experience with it, I’ve been reading about DD-type relationships for decades. I didn’t just pull the idea out of my ass. Many people who practice this maintenance are out-in-the-open about their erotic connections to spanking and discipline. What I’m saying is that the idea of pretense makes sense to me. To those for whom this shoe doesn’t fit, please don’t feel obliged to wear it.
The way KD sees it rings with a lot of truth to me. Assuming this is a discussion about two willing partners and not some form of coercion, my question has always been the need for the term. Whether spanking is a sexual need or not, when two people consent to regular spankings, it’s because they want it. If we’re not finding the time or opportunity for sex, we might try to schedule or force ourselves to make the time available. I think that’s sometimes called “maintenance sex,” but it’s out of obligation to an idea that sex is needed for the health of the relationship. So maybe it’s the same with spanking?
ReplyDeleteOne answer that makes sense to me is that, when the craving for spanking is tied to discipline, then a pretense is needed. Just doing it because it satisfies an urge in no way resembles discipline. However, if it’s to “maintain” discipline, then the psychology works to satisfy, or at least it will do until actual punishment for an actual offense is called for.
Another answer I can understand is the preventative aspect of it for people who need regular spankings and a demonstration of the authority that has been granted to the disciplinarian. If you get spanked as maintenance, then the need is satisfied, and that lessens any incentive to “earn” a spanking through misbehavior or failure of some kind. It’s really kind of a reward. Be good and get spanked. A win-win.
That wouldn’t work for me, because it’s not punishment. Punishment is part of an equation that requires an offense. I dislike being spanked, so 1+1=2.
The other answer I see is that a maintenance spanking reminds the one living under a discipline regime that they should stay out of trouble.
ZM said: “I know from previous posts that you come at DD from more of a parental discipline model, so just imagine if real parents were to insitute a program of "maintenance" spankings in their home! Note: I am not trying to go down the rabbit hole of parent-child spanking, but rather am saying just imagine maintenance in that setting, since it clearly shows how complicated it can be.”
Great point. I think it’s an example of the fundamental difference that distinguishes rational DD from BDSM. No respectable parent I ever knew would institute maintenance spankings in their home. It would be abusive and not good for the child from a variety of concerns. As an adult, the main issue for me is that the integrity of punishment is compromised when spanking is used both to prevent something that hasn’t happened, and also to punish what has. And how poor does one’s memory need to be that the expectation is that they can’t remember to do the right thing unless reminded with a kick in the ass? As I get older and older, my memory gets worse and worse. If only a cure for that was spanking, I’d be more than willing to take the medicine.
I’m not saying that maintenance spanking has to make sense to me in order to make sense to others. If it’s working for you, that’s what matters.
I strongly disagree that preventative spankings compromise the integrity of punishment.
ReplyDeletePreventative spankings are more complicated than being spanked for something that hasn't happened. It HAS happened -- repeatedly -- to the point that my marriage was nearly destroyed. So for those who insist that punishment can only be for something that has actually happened, you could say that what Art and I call preventative spankings are a series of ongoing spankings that have been earned for past misbehavior in the hope that they will affect future behavior.
Maybe preventative spankings are a form of maintenance spanking -- a subcategory -- that include a focus on particular past misbehavior and its future reduction. Oh yea, isn't that the purpose of punishment?
I also believe in the eye test: He is bent over a desk and I am whacking his bottom with a paddle. I am lecturing him about his arrogance, and he is grunting and trying to keep it together and apologizing for his past arrogance and promising to not be arrogant this week. That isn't punishment? And it is compromising the integrity of punishment? Come on. If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's a duck.
Liz
In regards to KD's interesting comments: Maybe my husband is rare, but he has never had an erection before, during, or after a paddling. So I contend that our DD when he is paddled is not an excuse for BDSM. We do that, too, but in our role reversal in the bedroom. They are both spankings, but in very different manners, for very different purposes, and with very different effects.
DeleteLiz
You all know the fastest way to get a woman wet. The second-fastest way may be to put her over your knee.
DeleteSorry, I can't sleep.
Liz
“I strongly disagree that preventative spankings compromise the integrity of punishment.”
DeleteAgreed, but I am not sure how we even got to the point of asking the question. Prevention (deterrence) is one of the classic objectives of punishment. Yes, most prevention punishment is administered after the fact, punishing someone after misbehavior hoping they will learn from it as well as others who witness or otherwise learn of the punishment and why it was administered. But when you consider it, punishment after the fact is much like putting the proverbial cart before the horse if prevention is the objective. One might if lucky prevent future misbehavior but it is too late to prevent imminent misbehavior. In the spanko world preventive spankings seem to have evolved to solve that dilemma. Far from compromising the integrity of punishment, they virtually guarantee punishment will achieve its goal.
Alan
I view preventative spankings as being an obvious subcategory of maintenance, which is a subcategory of discipline. But while technically preventative spankings would fit more under the definition of "discipline" than of "punishment," nothing is every really that clear cut. And the lines get even blurrier here, since preventative spankings have a clear tie to a specific past and/or (hopefully not!) future behavior.
DeleteBut like everything involving DD, we can get bogged down in semantics, and while that can be interesting, I am not convinced that it is all that helpful. So whatever works for you, do that and be thankful that you have found something that works!
And Alan, I agree that if you are trying to prevent a behavior, then preventative spankings are more likely to do that, while punishment spankings after the fact can prevent recurrence (possibly) but still don't keep the bad behavior from happening the first time. So if you really don't want your husband to drink too much at the party, a preventative punishment could be just the ticket! Of course you could punish him adequately afterwards using either DD or other more "normal" punishments such as ignoring him for a few days, but it doesn't change the fact that you had to put up with the embarrassment or discomfort that came from having him drink too much. So if you can avoid that by preventing the bad behavior in the first place, that is that much better!
-ZM
You are right about the slogging potential of semantics. Nevertheless you have suggested an interesting typology for disciplinary spanking. Re preventive spanking it would be interesting to know its overall "success" rate. I would rate ours as very high especially for short duration events
DeleteAlan
"I strongly disagree that preventative spankings compromise the integrity of punishment. Preventative spankings are more complicated than being spanked for something that hasn't happened. It HAS happened -- repeatedly -- to the point that my marriage was nearly destroyed." Liz, this resonates with me. When I first heard about preventative spankings, it seemed kind of inherently unfair to be spanked before you had done anything wrong. But, you're right -- that's kind of segmenting the timeline in a way that's ignores the forest for the trees. Also, for me, there is a very big "the proof of the pudding is in the eating" element to real DD. While the theory behind preventative spankings didn't make much sense to me at first and seemed unfair, the few times my wife has actually employed it, it worked! Frankly, it worked WAY better than post-offense behavior in terms of bringing about real behavior change.
DeleteTo all here commenting: I thought I made it clear that this was an “issue for me,” and that DD in all its forms doesn’t need to “make sense to me in order to make sense to others.” I'm not insisting anything. I'm offering my perspective and asking questions.
DeleteThe “integrity of punishment” is at the heart of my fetish. My sense of integrity comes from my experiences and my values. If a spanking doesn’t align with those values, my fetish is not satisfied. It’s not that complicated or anything to argue about. An adult “DD” relationship is between consenting adults, and any couple can express it in whatever ways works for them. If regular spankings maintain then they're maintenance. If they work to prevent unwanted behavior, then they’re preventative. Great. That doesn’t make it work for everyone. My fetish, for whatever reasons, and happily so, reflects my non-sexual rational values. Preventative punishment without a crime is not a morally legitimate idea to me.
Why do I feel this way? Outside of adult DD, punishment tends to follow certain norms of cause and effect. If a child has a chronic behavior problem, the solution isn’t to punish them regularly whether they misbehave or not. If someone has been getting speeding tickets, you don’t give them a “preventative” ticket every week to remind them to stop it. Eventually their license is taken away because the tickets aren’t preventing anything. Our society is built on certain ideas of crime and punishment. As far as I know, there must be a crime, and then the consequences are punishment. In some cases, the punishment may last a lifetime, but it was the result of something. So if, in the DD relationship, one is punished regularly for past crimes, we could just call it a life sentence. Whether they might be rehabilitated, we don’t know, because they never have an opportunity to prove it without preventative punishment. With adult DD, that’s perfectly fine if it’s what you want. If DD must match another model of discipline, it doesn’t fit the desire.
The reason I bring up BDSM with this topic is because sadomasochism, dominance and submission play a role in many discipline relationships. It explains in pretty simple to understand terms why many into DD are attracted to a regime of regular spankings. I also think I understand the motivation to distance spanking from BDSM in order to create a stronger feeling of discipline and punishment. That’s my motivation. I need it to not look like BDSM, so my attraction is to circumstances that align with the traditional definition of punishment in our culture.
We don't do maintenance spankings because there is nothing to maintain!
ReplyDeleteWe are in the initial process of changing Jimmy's behavior, and since he gets spanked once or twice a week, we have no need for spankings that remind him who is in charge.
The BDSM question is an interesting one. He definitely gets a sexual charge out of spanking, and I get a sexual charge out of the power that I hold over him. So are these disciplinary spankings an excuse for doing something sexual during a time when we are not sleeping together? Possibly.
But I know my main focus is on increasing his respect for me, and nothing has worked as well as the bath brush. To me, the sexual component is way secondary.
Belle
Hi Belle,
DeleteYou have established a disciplinary relationship in one that is also intimate but not overtly sexual. It will be interesting for you (and us if you discuss it) whether and how spankings change for you when your reunion is complete.
Alan
Hi Alan,
DeleteI would say that Belle's disciplinary relationship is VERY sexual, it just doesn't actually include sex at this time. :-)
-ZM
Agreed, but that is what I intended to convey with "not overtly sexual" This is a PG blog.
DeleteAlan
PG-13, sometimes drifting into R. Rarely NC-17.
DeleteZM is correct, our DD is sexual though we are not having sex. Jimmy is often hard before and after a punishment, I have always enjoyed his butt - it's one of the reasons I married him. And spanking him has taught me that power over your husband is definitely an aphrodisiac. It has been very very difficult not to jump him after punishing him. But I want it all - love AND respect - and that is what I will have, even if I have to wait some more.
DeleteBelle
Hi Dan,
ReplyDeleteWe have not exactly used maintenance spankings, but we have done things pretty similar. The closest that we have ever came was during the time that we had an ongoing “boot camp” time, where she was setting certain - mostly work related - goals for me, checking progress daily and assigning a plus, minus, or nothing, and then doing periodic (about every 10 days or so) “check-ins,” where she would review the results for that reporting period. Depending on how things had went, I might receive a relatively short and light spanking or even no spanking at all, or I might receive a much harder and much longer punishment, perhaps even spread over multiple days in extreme cases.
When we were doing this, it was semi-scheduled, which is very similar to maintenance. We didn’t do it a specific day or time, but rather every 10 days or so she would tell me to expect it soon and then do it at the next available opportunity. Also, if everything was going great, then I could expect very little spanking, and several times even nothing at all, so again not exactly maintenance, but still close. And of course, if things didn’t go so well, it could very quickly escalate into a punishment spanking.
I personally prefer that spankings be directly tied to a misbehavior, so I don’t love the concept of maintenance. Also, I don’t necessarily need a spanking to remind me that she has this authority, since the very fact that she was able to have the “check-in” showed me that she had clear authority. Also, I don’t have a huge need for spankings on any regular basis, since they tend to hurt.
The way we did it was pretty great for me, since it was more tied into having imposed boundaries and clearly set expectations, tied to absolutely certain accountability. And having her clearly show her authority by talking to me each night, reviewing the day, and “grading” my performance was a huge thrill to me and played well to my submissive tendencies. Knowing that any deficiencies would translate into a hard spanking played even more perfectly to my punishment fetish. And in the end, it helped me to literally transform our life and get us going again and re-engaging life after being completely stuck for a long time!
This weeks topic was most timely for us, since several things happened at once. We became mostly empty-nesters, which we knew was possible but weren’t really sure if it would happen or not. In the end, everything came together and just like that, we are alone. And then my wife made me clean up my home office. After seeing the transformation in that space from pigpen to comfortable office space, and with a clear view of the many, many other things that get procrastinated on and never started (and certainly not finished) that add chaos and stress to our lives, I asked my wife to re-start the “boot camp” concept. This time will be different, since I am not stuck like before and in fact am CTO of a growing enterprise so am very busy, but it will allow us to ensure that we make progress on bringing order to all aspects of our life, not just our economic situation. And also, we will have much greater flexibility than before, since we now are usually alone when we are home. Anyway, we are just now ironing out how it will work, but I look forward to seeing how it evolves.
-ZM
"The way we did it was pretty great for me, since it was more tied into having imposed boundaries and clearly set expectations, tied to absolutely certain accountability." You and KD provide nice bookends for my own DD motivations. What you wrote here really appeals to me, yet it never seems to actually play out that way, perhaps because as KD observed my wife and I are not really "routine"-oriented people.
DeleteCongratulations on the empty nest status! It changed things for us much less than I expected, though honestly the last couple of years has been really anomalous for us on so many levels, including extended, regular work travel followed by the very unexpected Covid shutdown. I do wonder what our DD life might look like if life ever settled down into some kind of "normal" routine.
Hi Dan, the time that we did this before, which spanned a couple of months if my memory serves me well, we stuck to it surprisingly well. I am not an organized "routine" person at all, but apparently my wife is pretty good at keeping things on track if she sees the benefit of it.
DeleteAs for the empty nest status, I am not sure that it will radically transform things, especially during the beginning when we are just trying to get used to the new flow of life. But it definitely will raise new possibilities with regard to DD, especially since she can choose to punish me at any time. A large percentage of "announced" spankings have never came to pass before, not because of lack of will, but rather because there simply weren't any opportunities to carry it out until it was too far in the rear-view mirror to even make sense. Usually by then, we had talked about the issue, whatever it might have been, so much that it was already resolved and so even if we had a chance, she didn't feel like punishment was necessary. If she spanked me for paying too much attention to some woman's bottom 4 months ago, it would kind of seem to lack any sort of immediacy.
Anyway, I am not expecting huge changes from the empty nest, but the fact that we are re-starting the "boot camp" program might turn out to be quite transformative. Only time will tell!
-ZM
ZM, btw, if it wasn't clear, I wasn't suggesting that you may not experience huge changes from the empty nest. You very well could. I was just noting that for us, I went into it expecting big changes, but they didn't really happen. But, for us the empty nest transition wasn't a one-time, total change. When they initially moved out, they were still local, so they were still around a lot. And, one of them moved back in during a transition between school and job. So, it may be that a big change didn't happen on the DD and FLR front because the transition to empty nesting was pretty incremental.
DeleteHi Dan,
DeleteYes, I think the incremental transition could affect that. We had a similar thing for a while mostly during the summers, when we had some weeks that we were alone, but at the same time 1 or more kids were close enough that they could choose to surprise us at any time, in which case they might have been more surprised than us! As it is, none of our kids will be popping by unannounced, so it is a big change.
On the other hand, I still don't know if or how much it will really change things. One reason is because we always try to seek some balance, so we don't want DD or FLR to consume our lives either (we are not FLR, so at least that shouldn't). My wife is especially sensitive to this, so I figure I will just kind of let her determine what the new normal might be and try to keep my expectations in check.
And there will be a certain amount of future transition for us as well. Right now, for the next 9 months we will be totally alone, but for several years to come there will be periods where we are not alone, or at least I certainly hope their will be since I miss our kids!
-ZM
-ZM
We don't do "maintenance" spankings but sometimes I'll decree a "reminder" spanking. Part of it is role enforcement, as Dan says. If I decide husband needs a "reminder" spanking, I just tell him to get dressed for discipline and tell him what to put on. Of course, he pouts and asks why and it gives me the opportunity to say "BECAUSE I SAID SO!".
ReplyDeleteI usually give these reminder spankings after he's disobeyed me a lot recently, then he's good for a while, then suddenly slips, gets disciplined and then it looks like he's going to be good. I want him to be good for a longer time, so I decide it's time to remind him of my authority and what will happen if he doesn't keep up his good behavior.
When he's dressed and in his corner, then I get ready. When I call him out of his corner he stands in front of my desk while we review his misbehavior or disobedience in the recent past. Next, we review his good behavior then the slip. I let him know I want to make sure he doesn't slip so soon again, so I've decided it's time for a lesson about the consequences of slipping. Of course, he stresses how good he's been and how he'll keep being good and please don't discipline him.
I listen for a while, then tell him "I SAID YOU NEED A LESSON, YOUNG LADY AND YOU'RE GOING TO GET ONE! Now come over here and turn around so I can unzip your dress."
Of course he does, then I discipline him. I'm a little nicer after he's served his post Disciplinary Session Corner Time. I hug him and remind him how good he's been lately and extract promises how he's going to keep being good so Miss Cecilia doesn't have to spank him again.
Do those "reminder" spankings tend to be of the same severity and duration as other spankings?
DeleteOf course, lol! Since the "reminder" spankings are supposed to remind him of the consequences of disobeying me, they have to be full duration and severity. If I go easy on him, he might think the consequences of disobedience aren't so severe anymore. He might even misbehave sooner when the idea is he doesn't misbehave again so soon. Ideally, of course, the idea is he doesn't misbehave ever again, but I know that's not going to happen. But it's a goal I work for and require him to work for too.
DeleteOne time I did give him a "reminder" caning. Canings are severe but they don't last as long since I don't want to draw blood. That's one of husband's limits. I'm up to giving him 18 strokes. He still bawls alot when he gets a caning, but, it's over sooner. I usually require sissy maid service after a caning, so I suppose you could say the disciplinary "session" lasts as long or longer. He says it's humiliating and humiliation is one of my disciplinary tools, so I guess I'm still "disciplining" him when I require him to wait on me.
Hello Celilia,
DeleteI like it that you classify humiliation as a disciplinary tool. The longer I do this, the more I realize the powerful element that humbling plays in making the whole process effective. It is so easy for us to somehow lose sight of the big picture and somehow think "punishment or discipline = spanking." Spanking can and usually does play a big role in discipline/punishment, but humbling can prove to be even more impactful, and it is entirely possible to use humiliation as either a powerful punishment enhancer or even in lieu of corporal punishments.
-ZM
-ZM
ZM, honestly, for me it's pretty much all about humbling. A good 80% of the trouble I create for myself in life comes from excessive attitude, arrogance, impetuousness . . . basically too much arrogance and energy and not enough humility and discipline.
DeleteQuit describing me so perfectly, Dan!
Delete-ZM
Interesting discussion. I will throw in a couple of thoughts that I've formulated from similar discussions in various forums over the years.
ReplyDeleteFirst, there is obviously no one right way to have a DWC marriage - different strokes for different folks, after all (pardon the pun). Nor is there is one particular philosophy that is inherently superior in regard to the nature of - and relationship between - discipline, punishment, and consent. And as has been noted in this discussion, semantics also come into play.
Regardless of how much we want to the spankings to be "real punishment" - in which the husband has to accept whenever the wife decides, with no questions asked - ultimately, there is always consent involved at some level. In that regard, it is never truly like a parent spanking a child - where the child has no say about it all - it is never truly involuntarily punishment. Even though the husband may not have to "consent" to any given spanking, he has given a blanket consent by agreeing to enter the DWC contract. And, really, he can walk away or refuse to be spanked at any time. So whether the spanking is for a specific punishment, preventative, or maintenance there is always underlying consent.
That said, many disciplined husbands (myself included), reach a point where they are psychologically almost incapable of refusing a spanking once their wife has decided that they have one coming. It is an acceptance of her disciplinary prerogative that, to me, is far more of a submission than any involuntary discipline. Even though I recognize that I have a desire to be a spanked husband, I also know when my wife tells me to assume the position (for punishment, maintenance, preventative) - that the spanking is going to be genuinely painful - that she will set my ass on fire with that damn bathbrush (or whatever implement she chooses). Crossing her lap anyway and accepting that pain is the real submission (hot and sexy thought before and after the spanking, not so much during the spanking).
I would imagine that the BDSM-component present in any particular DWC relationship varies by couple. Certainly, a couple who enjoys BDSM can role play DWC/DD anytime they like - no harm, no foul. And certainly some of us who strive to live the DWC lifestyle - where F/M spanking is truly used to improve the husband's behavior - may also occasionally enjoy some "fun BDSM" activities as well. Aunt Kay even said that spanking wasn't *just* for discipline - but could also be "for fun" as well (but also stated that the DWC was not about BDSM) I would say that for most - especially men - there is some degree of sexual component, whether overt or not. Case in point - I would suspect that all the men who post here know that they have no desire to be spanked just after ejaculation. There is always some layer of sexual tension inherent in the need to be spanked. I personally never have erections before, during, or after a spanking - but I also know that they are related to sexual tension, and that I have absolutely no desire to even think about a spanking after sex. My experience has also been that most women usually get turned on to some extent while spanking their men.
Just a few thought -all
"I would suspect that all the men who post here know that they have no desire to be spanked just after ejaculation. There is always some layer of sexual tension inherent in the need to be spanked." For sure, and I do think that spankings seem much harder to me if my sexual "cycle" is running low.
DeletePost-ejaculation spankings are something that I have a morbid fascination with. For now, I am perfectly happy leaving it as a fascination rather than replacing it with the likely awful experience!
Delete-ZM
It is not an uncommon theme on the Femdom forums - where the man has to masturbate to ejaculation in front of the mistress, and then is severely punished by the mistress without the benefit of any sexual tension. Almost all fantasy, I would wager. --al
DeleteWithout saying too much, since that's not what this blog's about, al, you'd lose that bet, at least where husband and I are concerned. What those men are posting on the FemDom forums might be their own fantasies, though.
DeleteIt may be fantasy on the femdom forums but both women who have disciplined me have expressed interest in it -more in having the power to use it rather than actually using it. I doubt it is widespread but it does happen. A while ago the moderator of a popular Yahoo blog described a period in his relationship during which his wife routinely used it. I think I have referred to it before as the "nuclear option" and that still covers it .
DeleteAlan
Hi Alan and Al,
DeleteMy wife has mentioned it several times as well, so I can say for her that it is not strictly some femdom fantasy, since she is actually interested in trying it sometime. Having said that, she has not done it to me, at least not so far, and may never do so.
No matter what, I would agree that it is something that rarely happens in most DD relationships, which is part of what feeds my morbid fascination: "it must be so bad that nobody actually does it."
-ZM
(RE: ejaculation prior to spanking). Well, perhaps I underestimated the extent of this practice in the F/M DD world. We all know that the sexually oriented forums of all types are filled with fantasy stories (with some true ones mixed in undoubtedly. Some do live out their fantasies in real life. After all, I'm sure that could be said to apply to many of us who post in this forum - we live a life that many, many men only fantasize about). I was mildly surprised at the response to my "assumption" about this practice. It definitely seems to be more a real practice that I would have thought (or maybe the "threat" of it is the more common practice?)
DeleteIn my own experience, very early on in our DWC life (within the first couple of months, I would guess), my wife spanked me shortly after sex. While I had absolutely zero interest in being spanked at that moment, I took it because our agreement was that she could spank me anytime for any reason (the only stipulation being that it had to be in private - although a few years later, her sister did start witnessing some of my spankings). The experience was absolutely miserable - all sting, no sense of connection (which is very much part of our experience - my ass may be on fire, but we both know the love is always there), definitely no sexual tension. While others may argue that is "truer" punishment (and it probably is), it was not what either of us wanted, so we amended our contract to exclude spanking within a couple of hours of sex (if I do earn one, it is given a few hours later, with a penalty for postponement). --al
Hi Al,
DeleteThank you for sharing your experience with this. It sounds similar to how I thought it would be, but I hadn't thought of the "no connection" part. The other parts like all sting and so on might work to make it a "truer" punishment, but I don't think I would like the loss of connection, since one of the most powerful things I can say about DD is that it brings us much closer together. Based on this, I certainly hope that if this ever does happen, it will not be something that happens with any regularity.
-ZM
So I'm curious. What is the neuro-chemistry explanation for it hurting more after an ejaculation? Since there are pleasure chemicals racing through the brain, you would think it would hurt less. Or is it all psychological? He is turned on by being spanked, but after ejaculation he isn't turned on by anything, so it feels like the spanking hurts more. Which means that when we are aroused we can take more pain?
DeleteI find this very interesting. I wonder what Jimmy would say and do if I told him to go in the bathroom and jack off before paddling him.
Belle
I have no idea what the neuro-chemistry explanation might be for it hurting more afterwards. Maybe the "pleasure chemicals" interfere with endorphin production? To understand why spanking hurts much more after spanking - or so I have been told, having not experienced it - one question I would have is if other things hurt more. For example, if right after making love you somehow manage to stub your toe, does it hurt more than normal?
DeleteI expect it is more the psychological element. Right after ejaculation, even though a warmth and bond and feelings of closeness remain, nothing is very sexy and for a little while, we become less sexual beings. So I think that likely it is not so much that the spanking hurts more, but rather that you actually feel the full effect of the spanking without it being blunted by the underlying sexuality of what is happening.
One thing loosely related to this is duration and intensity of the spanking. Note: all that follows is pure conjecture on my part. DD punishments tend to be MUCH longer, and generally more severe, than most other spankings, especially childhood spankings. For example, in school they usually used up to maybe 10 paddle swats when I was young (much less now in places still using corporal punishment). Since adults typically have a higher threshold for pain, I might expect that if there was no "turn-on" element of spanking, then probably an adult would experience the same level of punishment with maybe 20 hard swats. On the other hand, many DD couples routinely use 80-100 or more hard strokes, and still it often doesn't result in him becoming a sobbing mess. Could it be that some of that is just because the whole thing is just so sexually exciting?
-ZM
And Al,
DeleteI really loved what you said about consent.
"Even though the husband may not have to "consent" to any given spanking, he has given a blanket consent by agreeing to enter the DWC contract. And, really, he can walk away or refuse to be spanked at any time." - There is no question that except in obvious cases of domestic abuse, adult spanking in in form is consensual. But the blanket consent part really rings true for me. I don't have to agree with each and every spanking, because I have agreed that my wife has that authority. And in the end, I could walk away from any spanking, but at the risk of the DD element of the relationship. Just to be clear, I could stop DD at any time without it severely and immediately damaging our overall relationship, but if I refuse individual spankings, then I run a high risk that she will no longer be willing to keep DD as part of our relationship. And long term, without the positive things that DD brings, including the tremendous intimacy that comes with it, removing DD from the relationship could allow other damage to the relationship to accumulate more quickly.
So no matter what, we can't remove the consensual element, which does prevent it from being completely involuntary like childhood spankings. But then came your excellent paragraph. "That said, many disciplined husbands (myself included), reach a point where they are psychologically almost incapable of refusing a spanking once their wife has decided that they have one coming. It is an acceptance of her disciplinary prerogative that, to me, is far more of a submission than any involuntary discipline. Even though I recognize that I have a desire to be a spanked husband, I also know when my wife tells me to assume the position (for punishment, maintenance, preventative) - that the spanking is going to be genuinely painful - that she will set my ass on fire with that damn bathbrush (or whatever implement she chooses). Crossing her lap anyway and accepting that pain is the real submission (hot and sexy thought before and after the spanking, not so much during the spanking)." - This! Exactly this.
-ZM
ZM and al,
Delete"Many disciplined husbands (myself included), reach a point where they are psychologically almost incapable of refusing a spanking once their wife has decided that they have one coming"
This is something I sometimes ponder in the context of blanket consensual spanking ( a concept that captures the real dynamic of consent) Some while ago with a former girlfriend, we were having a conversation about what would happen if I rebelled or just refused to take a spanking. Her answer was that she was in complete control "when we were together" (meaning in physical proximity versus over the phone) and she was very confident that I couldn't and wouldn't disobey her about a spanking. Another time she told me that I had given her disciplinary authority and I couldn't "take it away" There were the first times I realized I really could not stop or resist for long a spanking she had decided upon. In addition to consenting to her spanking I had taught her how to push all my "spanko buttons" and she had learned well. She never relay abused her authority and my wife never has but it is sobering sometimes to realize the bridges I burned behind me when I consented. It is not a power lightly given or easily withdrawn. I don't consider that a negative of any kind and in fact it makes DD much more authentic. But in the early days I got through some pretty severe spankings telling myself I could stop it if I wanted. That was an illusion and it would be now too if I deluded myself about it. It's not that physically I couldn't stop it but psychologically probably not.
Alan
Hi Alan,
DeleteLots of great points, Alan.
“ In addition to consenting to her spanking I had taught her how to push all my ‘spanko buttons’ and she had learned well.” So very true. If you understand someone’s motivations, there is nothing you couldn’t get them to do. By giving such insight into our deep dark secret desires, we give our wives the key to control us by using our own fantasies.
And on the consent issue, yes I physically could stop any punishment in theory, but submission feeds continued submission, so even though I have the strength and the right to stop things, I couldn’t bring myself to do it.
Plus since we don’t have per-punishment consent, but rather only blanket consent, while I could withdraw consent at any time, it would be the blanket consent I would be withdrawing, which might well lead to a life of frustration without the imposed discipline I so want and need.
So in the end, I may consent to it, but I am easily controlled by my own desires and would not and could not withdraw that consent.
-ZM
Another slightly different take on maintenance spankings comes from Elise Sutton, the well known Femdom writer who promoted the phrase "loving female authority" (essentially synonymous with FLR, it seems to me). She stated - while not using the phrase "maintenance spanking" - that men should receive regular "disciplinary" spankings, not related to any particular punishment, in order ensure that the husbands maintained a consistently respectful and submissive attitude - and then given more severe "punishment" spankings when they had committed an infraction. She did not specify that the "disciplinary" spankings be on a regular schedule, but she did state they should be "regular".
ReplyDeleteWhile the story of the wife demanding that the husband submit to spanking discipline under threat of divorce or sexual abstinence can make for hot spanking fiction, I am certain that anything close to that scenario would be exceedingly rare in the real world. In almost all cases, the husband is to first broach the topic of a DWC marriage. And even in the rare cases where the wife suggests it, the husband obviously has to buy into it as well. The point being that at some level the husband does have a want/need to be spanked - even though he may regret that desire during the actual spanking. And, as has been suggested earlier in the thread, the regular maintenance spanking does address that desire, without the husband feeling he needs to create a reason to be spanked. It makes spanking a regular event in the home, even if the husband improves his behavior as a result of the spankings (the goal after all) - meeting his need to be spanked on occasion.
Just a few more thoughts to add to the discussion. --al
Al, it's interesting isn't it that the reality is that it's almost always the husband who asks for a DD relationship, yet the "hot spanking fiction" almost always goes 180 degrees in the opposite direction. Your contribution to the DWC stories "Even More" is the very rare exception. Almost every other story on the DWC site involves either the wife fully imposing the relationship against the husband's will, or at most he suggests experimenting with spanking but then she turns the table and gives him far "more than he bargained for."
DeleteElise Sutton as a proponent of DD as characterized here? (eyeroll)
DeleteHer site was certainly fetish in the guise of discipline. So I would he hesitant to take anything she said seriously for the context here.
Dan,
DeleteQuite a bit of the spanking fiction, both F/M and M/F is weak, even unreadable precisely because it eschews the reality of adult spanking for fantasy. It almost totally lacks verisimilitude. Presumably the authors of such are either ignorant of real DD or are simply catering to what they think their readers want to read. But as a class it’s pretty bad. Al's story and several of KD's are well written ( haven't really read Glenmore's fictional material so will need to recuse on it)- and one or two of the fiction on the old DWC site read as if they may have been drawn from real life. But after that it gets pretty thin.
Alan
Alan: Thanks, Alan. That was very kind.
DeleteAlan: Yes, thanks for the kind words about my story as well, Alan. --al
DeleteKD: My experience with the Elise Sutton site occurred very early on in our DWC marriage (first year) and we did recognize that it was more about the Femdom fetish - although we did take away a few ideas for private play and even a limited amount of "Femdom discipline" that is beyond the scope of this blog. (Although enforced chastity was not one of them - Neither Susan or I have ever grokked the appeal of that particular fetish, but then we both do believe in the truism "your kink is not my kink but your kink is ok). :)
DeleteI read some of her stuff there. Most of it was too fetish for us - but some of her writing on DD did resonate - especially the distinction between disciplinary and punishment spankings. (But looking back, almost 20 years late, perhaps it was just a DD cover for the fetish - I was young and naive then - well, not really. :) I just Googled her site, and see that she is still around). --al
I understand our marriage is unusual since I'm the one who introduced all of the things in our DD relationship and I did it while he was still my boyfriend.
ReplyDeleteThere were no threats of a breakup or anything like that. It was something we arrived at through talking. Husband (then boyfriend) was nothing like any other boyfriend I ever had before. He actually encouraged me to speak up and do something if I thought I needed to. Relationships were the one part of my life where I wasn't the assertive to bossy person I am any other time. Husband (then boyfriend) really cared about how I felt. Being a Disciplinarian helped me to bring that part of my life in line with the rest of my character.
Miss Cecilia - while it is less common for the wife to be the one to suggest a DWC style relationship, I have seen a few over my too many years visiting F/M DD forums. Our story is in Dan's "User Stories" section, but the short version goes - I was the first to mention F/M spanking when I confessed to that fantasy over too much wine one night, my wife (in one of the great surprises of my life) really enjoyed the idea of paddling my behind (and grabbed a ping pong paddle shortly after I confessed my fantasy). Given her enthusiasm, the next morning I introduced her to the DWC site, and our DWC marriage began that day. So, although I was the first to mention F/M spanking, she quickly and very enthusiastically embraced the idea. --al
DeleteThis is Arthur. I don't know what you call the paddlings I get from my wife - punishment, maintenance, preventative. I just know that a paddling Monday morning helps me get my mind right for the week. For a short while we added Thursday because the impact had worn off by the end of the week and my arrogance was starting to return. Then we went into COVID with the kids home all day and our schedule was messed up. I can't wait to get back to it.
ReplyDeleteI never want to be the way I used to be towards my wife, my colleagues, and especially my children. The best way I have found to ensure that is to hand my wife the paddle I made for her and bend over the desk. Maybe I will find a better way, but truthfully I doubt it. The reason is that I do not believe my arrogance will ever go away. Our DD is not an attempt to eliminate my behavior. Instead, the DD holds my arrogance in check. That's why I need the DD to be regularly applied - maintenance if you want to call it that.
I know some on here have said that DD is not working if the behavior doesn't stop completely, but I disagree with that. I know I need these reminders. A paddling humbles me, and humble people are not arrogant. When you think about it like that, it's really quite simple. Unfortunately, I do not stay humble. I need that constant painful reminder!
Also, I do not feel like I am being paddled for something I have not done. I feel I am being paddled for my past behavior - for which I deserve a thousand paddlings - and to help ensure that I do not repeat that behavior. Without the paddle, I fear that I might. More truthfully, I know that I will.
I feel so strongly about this because I want to stay married and with my children. I MUST keep my arrogance in check. Yes, I have other ways to try to do that. Mainly I think before I speak. Now I make myself wait before making comments and I think about how to not be arrogant in my comments. "Be humble, not arrogant" I tell myself. But even that is part of our DD! While Liz is paddling me, she asks questions like, Are you going to think before you speak? Are you going to be humble at work today? And in the position I find myself, there is only one answer - Yes, Ma'am! Then I am committed to keep that promise to her! So it's not only what I want, it is what I have promised my loving wife. That makes it all the more powerful. And it all happens through DD. The truth is that if she asked me those same questions while kissing my check and sending me off to work without having paddled me, I might say yes but I would not have the same commitment to keep that promise. When she humbles me first, my commitment to her becomes much stronger.
I saw a picture recently of a paddle with the words "marriage counselor" on it. I know that's supposed to be funny and an exaggeration. But I would say it's pretty close to the truth for me. I just did not have enough respect for her views until she took up the paddle. Now I know she means business!
I am grateful to Liz's mother for suggesting corporal punishment. I actually have never admitted that before. I am trying to come to terms with the fact that she now knows that Liz paddles me, and get rid of the resentment I feel that Liz told her mother. Someday I hope to work up the nerve to actually thank Liz's mom for her suggestion. I feel lucky that I married into a spanking family, and that DD has helped me so much.
For me, this is no BDSM game. It's no sexual thrill. I don't get hard when being paddled, and I don't fantasize about it between paddlings. They are the reminders I need to be the father, husband, and colleague that I want and need to be. For years I did not know how to do that. I ran my mouth. I don't even know why I was/am like that! Now I have a way to be a better person, with the help of Liz's strong right arm.
I am grateful for a forum where I can spill my guts like this. Thanks, Dan.
Arthur
Thanks, Arthur. Really great stuff.
DeleteI'm just curious, has anything happened at work that gives you objective feedback on the good effects you've seen? Like, do you get performance reviews and have they changed at all since you started getting paddled? We don't really get those at my level in our organization, but I am pretty sure that some people have recognized changes in my over time, particularly after the event I've related in which my wife made me apologize to someone I'd picked a fight with.
Thanks for the question, Dan. I do get performance reviews and they are always great. They are really just a formality at our company, and nothing negative is said unless they want to let someone go.
DeleteHowever, my boss and my bosses boss do talk to me informally. Especially my bosses boss has told me that I have been more helpful and less confrontational in meetings. He hasn't used the word arrogance, but it is obvious he is talking about some of my arrogant and sarcastic comments that must have been passed up the line to him. So to me that is some objective feedback that the paddle is having positive effects.
I think I mentioned before that my children have commented, mostly to each other but within my wife's hearing, that "Dad is much nicer than he used to be." That is the best feedback of all!
Paddle away, wife!
Arthur
I worked at a company where we all did the first drafts of our own performance reviews. Totally pointless process. I'm on board with those companies that have moved entirely away from the whole formal annual review thing.
DeleteI think some companies keep doing performance reviews to have a history of poor performance when they fire someone. One guy I know had good reviews for 10 years. His and my supervisor was promoted and I was promoted to be this guy's supervisor. My supervisor called me in and said I had to write the guy a bad performance review and then after 30 days let the guy go. I pointed out to him that the guy had 10 years of good performance reviews -- written by the person across the desk who was telling me to fire the poor guy! I told my supervisor I was not going to do it and to write the review and fire him himself and I walked out of his office. That was one time that my arrogance worked. My supervisor did the dirty deed and left me alone. Fortunately my supervisor left about a year later.
DeleteAnyway, I put no stock in performance reviews. My wife's paddle is my performance review! If I get 20 on a Monday morning I know I have been behaving for the past week, and I'm just getting a reminder. If I get 50 or 60 or more, I know I have not been behaving and she is aggravated!
Arthur
I like the way you think, Arthur. My Jimmy is probably just as arrogant as you ever were, and I hope he eventually realizes what you have realized.
DeleteBelle
Arthur, you and I are *a lot* alike. That's the tricky thing about arrogance and insubordination, right? Yes, it makes us a pain in the ass to deal with on some things. But, we also may be the only guys in the room who will do "speak truth to power" or just flat-out refuse to do something we think is wrong. The line I've been trying to draw for myself is between disagreements about tactics and disagreements about principles. I've learned to accept that there are going to be certain disagreements about business tactics. Even really smart, experienced people sometimes just see an issue or plan differently. I've gotten much better about deferring to the majority on most of those things, even if I'm convinced they're wrong. I state my objection or contrary opinion, often with conviction, but in the end the decision goes the other way, I accept it. But, I won't back down or go down easily if something I see as a principle is at stake. I won't defer to the majority or to a superior if the issue involves a matter of integrity or doing the ethically or morally right thing. Though, it's always a work in progress for me not to go off when I think a decision is stupid.
DeleteDan, that sounds like me exactly, and your differentiation of tactics and principles will help me to decide when to speak up and when to bite my tongue. My wife has been saying to me, "you need to pick your battles at work," but this will help me figure out which ones to choose. I recently had a situation where I got quite aggravated, and when I told my wife about it she decided not to paddle me for it because it was a "matter of principle" and so my aggravation was justified (though I still got lectured for my tone). So she is on the same page as well in regard to principle. Thanks for clarifying it for me!
DeleteI must add that since my wife took up the paddle, the lectures to which I used to turn a deaf ear have been much better heard and much more effective. That's because if she thinks I am not listening, my behind will suffer for it!
Arthur
Art and I are reading together for once. I can't tell you how frustrating it is to a wife to be talking to her husband about something important and know he is not listening. It truly infuriates us.
DeleteSince I began paddling him, Art has been much more attentive to what I say to him. In addition, I have learned better how to talk to a husband - I ask questions that demand answers, such as Are you going to do a better job of listening to your wife? (Yes) What are you going to do next time you will be late home to work? (Call) Of course, a husband could just ignore the question. But a DD husband can't!
I also have learned the difference for us between scolding and bitching. In my experience, a bitchy wife is kind of whiny and powerless, whereas a scolding is much more authoritarian, much more parental. Scolding does not take no for an answer, and I wonder if it is because in a parent-child relationship there is the threat of corporal punishment behind it. I don't want to be his mother but I do want results, and when I scold him in a haughty and authoritarian manner, much like a parent, he listens and responds much better than if I complain and harp (bitch) like a typical wife. And I do scold with those questions that demand answers. In a sense, they are really not questions, they are my expectations to which he is expected to agree.
Of course when he is bent over the desk and I am talking to him, I get the best answers of all.
Liz
"I also have learned the difference for us between scolding and bitching. In my experience, a bitchy wife is kind of whiny and powerless, whereas a scolding is much more authoritarian, much more parental. Scolding does not take no for an answer . . ." I think that's a great distinction.
DeleteFor what it's worth, the lack of listening goes both ways. There are a couple of things I've told Anne at least four or five times, and each time she acts like it's the first time she's ever heard it.
Arthur, my wife also particularly enjoyed that pic (or one like it - a lot of the F/M spanking pics that many of us are familiar with have been around a long time) - and even sometimes jokes about my weekly maintenance spanking as being "marriage counseling". She definitely believes that the DWC lifestyle has been significantly beneficial to our marriage (I do as well, but she is absolutely adamant that the DWC lifestyle maintains a strong level of marital harmony for us). --al
ReplyDeleteWell I don't have that high an opinion of real marriage counselors. Tried it a couple times. For me the paddle works better. Saves a lot of money too.
DeleteArthur
I'd like to get one of those paddles that says "marriage counselor." Hang it on my bedroom door.
DeleteBelle
Arthur: In my experience in my past past relationship, both paddles and marriage counselors were options. I would venture to say that if things have gotten to a point of counselors, paddles are no longer an option. They certainly weren't for me. In fact the only option that worked......though it was an expensive one.....was one not yet mentioned: divorce. That fixed everything!
DeleteKD,
DeleteI agree that the paddle isn’t going to save a relationship gone toxic but it can help a lot earlier in a relationship in some trouble, but not yet toxic , even one where there has been a separation such as both Liz and Belle report. Where there is consensual paddling going on both erotic feelings and open communication thrive and grow –and both are vital to a successful relationship
Alan
Our separation wasn't so much about Jimmy as it was about me. He was who he had always been and he wanted me to be who I had always been. But I needed to prove to myself that I could be independent, and that I could start a career. He wanted the cute little housewife that I had been for him, but when you are turning 30 and don't have kids, that is not enough. We did try marriage counseling, but he just couldn't understand why I needed to change when he was so happy the way things were. So I broke up with him, went my own way and started my career. But I missed him terribly because I really am in love with him.
DeleteSo the question became could we get back together? And my answer was not unless he could respect me more as a career woman and an independent person. We actually went back to the same marriage counselor, and he told her that he wanted to change but didn't know how. She didn't have a lot of insight for us. Then he suggested corporal punishment to help him change and I came on this forum and asked a few questions and got some good answers and I thought why not try it? What do I have to lose? And maybe a lot to gain.
Belle
I think there are different degrees of toxicity. I actually consider aspects of our marriage prior to DD to have been going in a toxic direction. And, as with Belle, in some ways it was more about her changing and growing that about me. We all tend to model what we see in our own parents, and hers were the classic traditional marriage of that era, where he worked and she stayed home, he made most of the decisions and often behaved badly. When she didn't like how things were going, she pouted and they gave each other the silent treatment. It was totally passive aggressive. I, on the other hand, have a thing for strong, tough women. For the first ten years, our marriage had some of that dynamic. When we'd have a fight, she'd pout and flounce out and the tension was in the air for days at a time. Had that dynamic gone on for another decade, and had my wife become more like her mother over time (which, lets face it, many daughters do), I really do wonder whether we'd still be together today. At the very least, I think we would have had one of those "lives of quiet desperation" arrangements where the spouses are just kind of waiting each other out until the kids are gone. DD changed that dynamic, giving her a sense of power and authority that her mother sure never had, which fixed a lot of the toxicity that was building up.
DeleteBelle,
DeleteGreat experience! He figured out the key to change and you made him a key and showed him how to use it. Probably not yet - but on some future date he will come to think of that bath brush as a magic carpet that took him from a place he didn’t want to be, to a place he needed to be.
Alan
Dan,
ReplyDeleteYou asked, "Do you use maintenance spankings in your relationship, or other means of turning Domestic Discipline or her exercise of her authority into a habit?"
Our marriage saw discipline change over the years (light spanking going to maintenance and punishment). My husband and I both see discipline as "maintenance" that reminds him that I'm in charge and that he is in the role of "submissive husband". Our maintenance sessions aren't normally to punish him for something, but they can be. Our last session took place where I said it would, in his workshop and the garage area. He found himself wearing panties (which I took down), his collar, and leather cuffs which I ended up attaching to a vise on his workbench. We reviewed how he performed his duties and how he acted toward me since our last review session. There were some moderate stokes of the cane in during our conversation and then a question and answer session. I asked him questions about my authority and he had to respond or feel a stroke of the cane. Since he wanted a stronger FLR, he accepts this. His bum was a bit red but it is a turn on for him (and me) and led to intimacy. He made sure to say, "Yes Ma'am", "No Ma'am" and "Forgive me Ma'am" as we spoke.
Punishment has become something else. He had a punishment session that was painful at the end of May for treating me nasty, yelling at me and cursing. It didn't help that I had bought him something he wanted that was very expensive. He dared to challenge me and misbehave and I wouldn't let it go. I caned his naughty bum and I think he learned his lesson. He's been punished other ways that have been very effective, besides hitting. In fact, my husband learned he wouldn't be seeing anything from the next several management bonuses he gets, if there are bonuses.
CarolH.
CarolH.,
DeleteYou seem to mix corporal punishment with non-corporal in almost equal parts (if not equal, you mention non corporal regularly). My question is how you decide if it’s one or the other or do you tend to use them together for the synergistic effect. Do you see corporal punishment and non-corporal on any sort of continuum where say corporal is the "last resort" after non corporal hasn't done the job? We really have no experience with non-corporal (other than some orgasm control which I consider discipline but not punishment) and realize it’s an area we should explore. Thanks Alan
Alan,
Delete"Do you see corporal punishment and non-corporal on any sort of continuum where say corporal is the "last resort" after non corporal hasn't done the job?"
Discipline has become "non corporal punishment". Our discipline sessions lead to intimate fun, but they have some elements of punishment. If my husband has behaved and did his tasks, he might get a few swats or strokes with the cane just for any places he messed up. I gave him two strokes of the cane for forgetting to pick up something when he stopped at the pharmacy, and then trying to tell me I never told him to buy what I asked for. A little white lie isn't a punishable offense, but he got the strokes because he told me I never told him. Our regular session is more kink unless he's really misbehaved. Serious lies get him punished. I won't tolerate them.
Punishment is for something more serious. The caning I mentioned is one punishment. Another was forcing him to clean and organize my closets. It was a lot of work. Texting me every few minutes is light punishment. Immediately responding to my texts or phone calls is ongoing punishment because he would forget to get back to me. He has to have a very good excuse for not answering me right away. I made him wear panties for an entire weekend because he was complaining about something minor.
My husband is submissive and gets off on this. He wanted a FLR. When it's deserved he's punished. I guess the answer is that if he keeps doing something I consider bad and I've reminded him over and over at regular session, he eventually gets "last resort" punishment.
You mentioned "orgasm control". I agree that is discipline, not punishment. It's something we have explored.
Regards,
CarolH.
Thanks.It sounds like discipline and punishment are on a case by case guided by intuition with serious and / or corporal reserved for those situation where the offense is heinous or non corporal hasn't worked
DeleteAlan
Perhaps overall orgasm control (meaning no free rein to masturbate without permission) might not in and of itself be "punishment', but wouldn't you all consider an imposed period of orgasm denial a punishment?
DeleteHi KD,
DeleteI think absolutely it could be considered as punishment depending on circumstances. If for example my wife was upset with me for something I did, and said I am not going to have an orgasm for three days, then that would definitely be a punishment, especially if combined with things that are likely to turn me on or with other punishments.
I guess if she wanted to make it excruciating she could make it for an indeterminate amount of time with lots of teasing to turn me on but with the knowledge that when she does let me, it will be immediately followed by a spanking, as we were talking above. Talk about a dilemma...
-ZM
It could be a punishment as in the scenario ZM outlines. But it could also be simply discipline. It depends on the context and the intent. We agreed together that masturbation without prior permission from her undermines our relationship and controlling when I cum is well within the authority she has in our relationship. I don't wear any sort of mechanical device and in practice she is very practical about it all. I experience it as discipline and not punishment, something I should have applied self-discipline to long ago before she had to get involved. In addition it has added an extra charge of excitement to love making, never knowing for certain what she will do.
DeleteAlan
Hi, been a while since I posted. The "loving female authority" touches all my buttons.
ReplyDeleteMy girlfriend said I was, uh hm, better at some things after a spanking. So pretty much every Sunday morning over I went. I got them at other times if I earned it. Tomy and Aunt Kay witnessed one of my spankings. At least one there might have been more.
ReplyDeleteFred
It would be fun to touch base,tomynash@gmail.com
DeleteFred, I seem to recall a "Fred" in the private DWC Yahoo Group back in the day ("The Gathering Place", around 2002-2005) - could have been you. --al :)
DeleteI doubt it.
Delete