“People do not lack strength,
they lack will.” – Victor Hugo
Hello all. Welcome back to
The Disciplinary Couple’s Club. Our
weekly on-line gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, a
Domestic Discipline relationship. I hope
you all had a great week.
Mine was about what I expected. A solid week spent in a conference room with
a set of work colleagues, book-ended with lots of travel. In some ways, it was a good exercise in a
team of people working toward a common goal.
Yet, it also illustrated perfectly some of the themes we talk about on
this blog regarding communications. Lots
of dancing around the elephants in the room.
Lots of hard issues addressed with long, ambling, indirect, veiled
communications in which the desire to avoid giving offense got in the way of saying
what we really thought. As I mulled through where these indirect and
polite-to-a-fault communications left us after a week, coincidentally there were comments taking place on the blog that also focused on how communication style impacts the effectiveness of the message. First,
there was this from Arthur:
"I must say that my
confidence in my opinion and judgment has gotten me a long way in the business
world, and I will never give that up. Sometimes that comes off as arrogance
when it really is not. What my wife and I consider to be arrogant is when I get
sarcastic and condescending about the opinions of others. This tends to happen
at work in long meetings that ramble on even though what we need to do is
painfully clear. I really dislike these unnecessary discussions and will
eventually cut them off with a stinging comment or two.”
My, oh my how Arthur’s
description of “rambling on” in situations where what needs to be done is
painfully clear resonated with me last week.
And, he ended with another point that sets up an interesting
contrast. “That lack of patience results
in a stinging butt for me!” In contrast
to the inefficient and ineffective exchanges that characterize so many
of our discussions at work and with others, in Domestic Discipline
relationships the wives have been empowered to communicate in a way that cuts
right to the chase and leaves no doubt about their views, leaving nothing open to interpretation! And, isn’t that communication style so much
more effective?
It wasn’t only Arthur’s
comments that linked (expressly or implicitly) a given communication style and the
likelihood the recipient will really get the message. Alan observed:
“One other thing about
consistency that goes beyond the obvious: her consistency on a given behavior
or any behavior for that matter underscores how important it is to her that a
behavior (or attitude) be changed/modified. I find that makes a big difference
to me if she is adamant about it and seems very committed to changing that
behavior. Her emotional investment in discipline has a huge impact on me and
how I behave.”
TB closed out the week’s
discussions with this:
“The few times that I have
been punished whilst she has still been angry have been the most memorable and
most effective. That is not to say that the (many) other times have not hurt or
been severe but there is something about the naked emotion applied via the
strap whilst the offense is still (virtually) ringing in ours ears that make
those times so very real.”
Whether the topic was correcting
bad behavior at work, immediate versus delayed punishment, or the importance of
consistency, the common thread among these comments was how timing, tone and
displays of determination affect the quality of communication and the
effectiveness of getting the point across.
It was clear that some of us, sometimes, are on the receiving end of a verbal or non-verbal message that makes it clear that future bad behavior better not happen or that the consequences for such repeat behavior will be something we really, really want to avoid.
It was clear that some of us, sometimes, are on the receiving end of a verbal or non-verbal message that makes it clear that future bad behavior better not happen or that the consequences for such repeat behavior will be something we really, really want to avoid.
I would like to use this part of Alan’s comment as the launching point for this week’s discussion:
“I find that makes a big difference to me if she is adamant about it and seems
very committed to changing that behavior.”
The topic reduces to the role that
determination, tone and displays of will have in really modifying
behavior.
Are there some behaviors the wives are really committed to changing? How is that commitment and determination conveyed?
Are there some behaviors the wives are really committed to changing? How is that commitment and determination conveyed?
Wives, do you openly tell him about your level of determination and commitment
to change a particular behavior? Tell
us about those conversations.
Do tone of voice and the way you project your authority also play a role in
conveying your determination? How does
your tone of voice, your demeanor, your body language and all those “non-verbal” aspects of
communication or, to be more precise, those elements beyond the words
themselves, display your determination to really change a particular behavior?
What about your demeanor after a spanking? Can that convey a message about your level of determination to bring about real change?
Are there other things that
distinguish those times when you really want to root out a behavior? Does the consistency or timing of discipline
change? Do you multiply the number of
spankings or impose other, non-spanking punishments?
And, what about times when
discipline fails to bring about real change?
Do you think it is perhaps because there is a lack of real will or
determination to make him change?
What could be done to turn that around and make him feel like he really
must change this behavior, or else?
In a couple weeks we are going to Disney for a couple weeks. When we travel I get very stressed because she’s so slow. I was just thinking this today and tempted to ask her for a hard spanking prior to leaving to help keep things calm. It’s a good idea in theory but nervous about having it done.
ReplyDeleteYes, I find affirmatively asking for hard spankings to be very challenging.
DeleteI told her my idea and she agreed ( maybe a little too enthusiastically ). Thursday at two is the time.
DeleteMy wife always said the purpose of discipline was to bring about change and it has worked for the most part in our marriage. I do more chores around the house and they have to be done on time and to her standards. If I failed to get them done on time or not to her standards I would get spanked. That has helped me to do my chores properly.
ReplyDeleteSwearing was another issue my wife wanted changed and while I still might swear once in a while but no where near what I used to so the spankings and mouth soaping worked.
Raising my voice to my wife was also another thing that had to change and it has after several spankings so yes spankings has changed my behavior for the better.
Thanks.
DeleteDan, as I wrote to Anton below, would you indulge my curiosity on what your wife's objection to"swearing" is based on? (you can look at my comment to him to see where I'm coming from.) Thanks.
DeleteMy wife just has this thing about using profanity. She doesn't like it and doesn't want it used in or out of the house. One time I used the f word in front of my grand children then they started using it. Needless to say I got a good mouth soaping and spanking. If I call her the F or B word the spanking is mush harder, usually a whipping with the razor strap.
DeleteMy wife feels because we are Christians and go to church we need to act like Christians which means no swearing or cussing to her or anybody else.
Thank you, Dan. Your reply explained a lot. I appreciate your candor.
DeleteI just got done paddling Arthur, our Monday morning ritual. I asked him during the paddling if he thought he should apologize to the co-worker he was rude to last week. He said no. I asked him (as I swatted) if he thought his answer was due to stubbornness, which is part of his arrogance. He said probably so. I said that since those are the issues that he has asked to be punished for, that I thought he should get extra swats unless he felt ready to apologize to the co-worker. He did not reply. I gave him 20 extra swats, very hard, which he really felt. When I told him to straighten up, he turned and said, "Thank you for reminding me to be less arrogant at work (which he usually says) ... and thank you for giving me something to think about." Then we kissed and he left.
ReplyDeleteI think this is an example of my increased determination, and also of his incredible stubbornness. I do think it must be his decision to apologize or it will not be sincere. But that doesn't mean I can't give him "encouragement"!
Liz
There is a saying I've encountered a few times in my profession. "Sincerity, sincerity, sincerity. Once you learn to fake that, the rest is easy." :-)
DeleteSeriously, one of the things that I found so humbling about being forced to apologize was that, while I knew I had been factually wrong about whether the guy had been a jerk that one time, it was in a context of a long history of jerk activity. So, I had to apologize to someone who I really still disliked, which is what made the humbling so effective. Paradoxically, it was the lack of sincerity that made getting the words out so difficult, which was what made it so humbling. Make sense?
It's great that you displayed the increased determination and that it was recognized. It also sounds like you both recognize that stubbornness is so deeply rooted for him, it will take a lot of determination to address it. I feel for him (and his butt), because I share many of the traits you describe.
That is an interesting comment, Dan, that making an apology you did not mean was especially humbling to you ... and thus an effective punishment. Did it affect future behavior toward that person? Or was it merely effective retribution?
DeleteTo me, apologies are hollow if they do not include a promise of future improvement. My parents spanked that belief into their children, and that is the DD approach I take with Arthur.
Liz
Hi Liz. Well, it was an interesting process. Circumstances ended up throwing this person's job activities and mine into much closer proximity for a period of time, including many concentrated hours in conference rooms and airports. As it turns out, we actually grew up only a few miles from each other in a small and isolated corner of the world, and we had a lot in common in terms of personality and temperament. Which is probably why we didn't get along in the first place, though once we got past that it became a bonding experience! So, I'm not sure how much the apology itself moved the ball forward, but the relationship did get better.
DeleteBut, this does illustrate a larger point, and why I see this differently than KD about addressing arrogance in the workplace. Everyone says they have great judgment about people, but I'm one of those few who will admit that my first impressions are fairly often just wrong. Combine that with a tendency toward being headstrong and pushy, and I can definitely misjudge people and their motives and miss chances to have good relationships. That is an aspect of my personality and approach that DOES need to be moderated. Whether DD is the best vehicle to moderate it, who knows? Our happiness and success are controlled by what the world does to us but also how we react to it. And, I do think that we have more impact than we think on those external things that happen to us, via our attitudes and general approach to the world. I can't fix other people, and everyone gets treated to some servings of shit they don't "deserve.
But, I can fix myself those aspects of myself that I know create problems for me. At least, in theory I can fix those. So, I do place a high value on fixing those things about myself that involve "stepping on my own dick." And, I like that metaphor. Big Dick Energy (hadn't heard that term until a few months ago, but I like it) opens up a lot of doors, but if it goes too far, it can close a few too. So, I have very consciously decided that "humbling" is part of why an FLR is important for me, even though I am not a natural submissive and I really, truly dislike being told what to do. I look at that forced apology kind of like how I feel about cardio workouts. I absolutely hate them, and find every minute excruciating, yet in the end I know I need them.
I am sitting here after a nice...but busy and cold weekend of camping, eager to comment and yet frustratingly (once again) isolated in my opinion on the week's topic and the carry-over from last week on meetings.
ReplyDeleteI cannot understand any of the rationales behind "correcting" this perceived "fault" in meeting behavior. It's work. Work is work. It pays the bills and once there, it is a world of its own with its own requirements for success and productivity. If a spouse has a better notion of how the things discussed should be handled, perhaps instead of spanking successful husbands, they should just get a similar position and lead by example?
I'm retired now but I met Rosa at my old job. So she knew what it was like there and she knew what I was like. If anything, she felt I was often TOO nice....even though there were plenty of people who were looking to get away with doing as little as possible who didn't think I was very nice at all. The people who did like me, were the ones who wanted to do their work and be recognized for their efforts rather than their personal characteristics. I also would not have welcomed any "correction" to my sarcasm which was always at the ready when needed. Sarcasm is a valid tool and has its place.
Now, as to this week's topic of determination, I would have to say, the issue has become trickier with us as time has gone on because there has been a gradual departure from specific rule-based offenses in favor of these emotion-driven feelings of what did that Rosa didn't like. And she has gotten less determined to enforce the rule stuff and more focused on these.....peeves. And I don't want to quibble over "peeves". I have certain faults at times that are very clear and I would like those to be our focus.
Readers of my blog have read the account of the unmade bed confession. THAT is the type of clear-cut, unambiguous, 'you-didn't-do-what-you-were-supposed-to' offense I am willing to be held accountable for. Where Rosa and I are clashing is in the vast gray area of whim. And while many here have willingly handed over the authority over 'whim' to their spouses, I have no desire to do so. So for me....."determination" to punish for a whim.....is a huge negative whereas that same determination for a clear-cut broken rule or inappropriate act is a huge positive.
Maybe a tad early to get frustrated about being isolated in your opinion, given that only two people commented so far and two of them didn't address the actual topic. ;-)
DeleteI agree that sarcasm does have its place, and to me it probably is the highest and best response to passive-aggressive behavior. But, there also is not a doubt in my mind that while my own "forcefulness" at work undoubtedly took me to a certain level, it also has held me back and perhaps imposed a lower ceiling on my rise in the long run than might otherwise have been the case. If one is in an organization that places a big value on collegiality and civility, even to the point of preferring passive-aggression to direct talk, then there very well may be a price to be paid for having an overly direct, let alone caustic, communication style. So too with anti-authoritarianism. I'm pretty sure that resisting authority moved me up faster than would otherwise have been the case, but I'm also pretty confident that it permanently ruffled feathers of people who do have some say regarding my career trajectory. And, at the end of the day, all that does have an impact on family finances, prospects for earlier or later retirement and, at the far end of the scale, simple job security. So, while at the end of the day it is my career, my workplace actions do have some impact on my wife and the family. Also, she herself suffers to some extent from my arrogance and abrasiveness, so correcting that tendency in all its aspects would be legitimate extension of her span of control.
Isn't there a middle ground between agreed upon rule and whim? Something can seem unimportant to you, yet be pretty important to your partner.
I suppose there are degrees to everything......including the skill sets employed at work. Still, I think for me, that if I was still working where I was, Rosa would be more inclined to spank me for not being more sarcastic to certain people.
DeleteAs for your last question.......of course. But the middle ground whims are not the issue. I have plenty of things I consider "important to Rosa only" that I have little problem being sensitive to. Perhaps because even though they are pet peeves.....I do see their importance to her and understand why she feels as she does.
I suppose I'm talking more about the times I do something with the best of intentions only to discover that some aspect of what I did set off some wonky trigger in her or was taken in some weird way, or worse, is the result of some personal issue of hers where objectively she is not being rational. I suppose a "good sub-hubby" would indulge those quirks too, but this is my second marriage and after the first, as I have said repeatedly, there are certain roads I WILL NEVER travel again....with ANYONE. No matter how much I may care about them.
FYI, one thing that I'm always intrigued by is whether any of my work colleagues visit this blog. It could be that at work we each think the other is an asshole. Or, it could be that at work we like each other but here it's me v. richard. While the odds are pretty low, I do work on extended teams with a lot of people in the UK, and god knows they have a thing for spanking.
DeleteMy wife has gotten more determined, though I would call it strict. Everything you mention above, including tone of voice, demeanor, body language, severity of spanking, alternate punishments.
ReplyDeleteRecently she decided that there would be absolutely no swearing in our house, and whoever did so would get punished by her. So that includes me and the kids. She doesn't swear, so she wouldn't be an offender.
She decided that when I swear in front of the kids that I will excuse myself and go to our bathroom and put a bar of soap in my mouth for 10 minutes. So I get an immediate consequence in addition to the corporal punishment later.
I hope she doesn't keep increasing her determination.
Anton
Hey there, Anton. What's her objection to 'swearing'.....and by "swearing" I assume you mean "using profanity"? I am perpetually fascinated by why this is an issue for so many people. (I even wrote a rather long and detailed piece on this a long while back.) I have never yet heard a reason for this objection that made any logical sense or wasn't in some way rendered illogical by what is or is not considered to be "cursing", "swearing", etc. by the folks objecting. With all of the common faults that plague humanity, I am baffled by the frequency with which this rises in importance over so many more deserving ones.
DeleteHi Kd,
DeleteI agree with you that an emphasis on swearing seems disproportionate but both women who have disciplined me ( especially my former girlfriend) have been firm about it. ( My girlfriend even forbid me from using the word "pee". To some extent our reaction to this from our disciplinarians is a measure of how committed our submission to their authority is. Back to my former girlfriend I have just accepted the punishment because long run it strengthens the DD relationship. ( My wife is not that strict but screaming out an F in public does trigger a spanking, so its been a matter of degree for me. My theory is that female disciplinarians are not so much making a moral judgement when they punish for bad language -as a social judgement that I ( we) will be socially deprecated by anyone who hears it and she feels strongly about that.So it is really using discipline to teach.In the case of my former girlfriend it was also a test of her authority and how far she could take it -something she was very invested in and always looking fr evidence that I was in defiance. There is also the influence on the more impressionable that they consider as few wives want to hear their children repeat "gutter language" heard from a father.It would be nice to hear from some women on this blog and their policy on swearing/bad language.
Alan
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DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteThank you, Alan, for that clear, lucid response. `I understand your willingness to comply in each situation......though I would personally have a problem with both. But that's what makes us all different! ;-)
DeleteDanielle here:
DeleteI have not found time to post for various reasons over the last couple of months. (Also, KD, I owe you a long overdue email. Sorry). I don't think I have much to add on this week's topic beyond what I have written in the past, but I just want to give my two cents worth on KD's question about swearing.
I spank Wayne for swearing sometimes, but it's not because there is a list of swear words he's not allowed to say. I don't care about individual words. The thing that earns Wayne spankings is when he gets upset about something and swears a blue streak in an angry tone that gets on my nerves. For example, that might happen when he can't find something he needs (like a certain screw driver or the earphones for his iPad). What he doesn't seem to get in the moment is that his cursing has an effect on me. It transfers his negative emotional state onto me when I overhear it. Sometimes it even sounds suspiciously like he is blaming me, though he always denies that when I confront him. In any case, I see such outbreaks of cursing as the adult male equivalent of a temper tantrum in a child, so reigning him in by punishing him like a naughty child seems appropriate to me. Does that make sense?
Hi Danielle. "Sometimes it even sounds suspiciously like he is blaming me, though he always denies that when I confront him." I suspect I have done that to my wife as well, blaming her because I can't find something, or because something isn't working. Fortunately for my behind, she has never spanked me for something like that, but I'm sure I have deserved one.
DeleteI asked me wife why she is so determined to ban swearing from our home and she wrote out the following to report here:
ReplyDelete"There is a distinct lack of civility in our culture, which has been increased dramatically since the election of 2016. A lack of civility leads to conflict. Swearing is one way of being uncivil. It also shows an ignorance of vocabulary. And if you curse in front of our children, you're getting your butt whipped, no questions asked!"
Anton
Anton
DeleteThis is pretty much in the "social" domain I alluded to and I expect representative of the attitude many disciplinary wives have ( as well as other wive who don't poses disciplinary authority). Your wife howsoever going to need to find another civic reference after 2020 presidential results are in.( albeit "civility" will take some time to snap back even them, but it will be a big start)
Alan
Alan, from your lips to God's ears re: the 2020 election, though you're a bit more confident than I am.
DeleteI am very confident, as Grant was confident after the wilderness, and Washington after New York . Its going to be bloody but in the end resources and numbers always matter ( and Trump - to state the obvious- is no Lee
DeleteAlan
True, though I'm not sure we have anyone on our side is a Grant, and our lead guy in the polls feels more like a George McClellan. Grant won because he was willing to take enormous losses to do it. Right now, we have a full slate pandering to positions that are going to just kill us in the general election.
DeleteMaybe, but even McClellan could win this one. ( although someone would need to lead his horse to Appomattox)Every presidential election is ultimately a referendum on the incumbent and the jury is in on this incumbent. Trump has tiptoed over the tipping point" " with Syria and Doral - and even the neanderthals recognize this. Republicans will let him go down in 2020 as they did with Goldwater in 64 hoping the party can survive it all and arise from the ashes phoenix like.2024 I won't predict especially if the Democrats go left for a nominee. But 2020 is a goner as long as the Democrat nominee is breathing on election day.
DeleteAlan
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DeleteAnton: Thank you for providing your wife's explanation.....and please thank her for taking the time to respond and explain. I do not want to detract from the actual topic by delving into numerous counterpoints. Admittedly I have several rebuttals to what I believe are inaccurate correlations between profanity and things like civility or vocabulary, but I'd rather just express my appreciation for a sincere explanation, even if I disagree with it, and leave it there.
DeleteBTW, Anton, Dan, & Alan: If you'd like a more detailed explanation of why I find the objection to profanity so bizarre, please consider this past post of mine: https://collectedsubs.blogspot.com/2016/06/cursing.html
DeleteAlan, I hope you're right, but I have my doubts. I thought there was absolutely no way that such an unpalatable human being could win in 2016. And, despite Doral and Syria and Ukraine, in the last polling I've seen, his approval rating is still higher than it has been at other supposed "low points" for his presidency. But, as I said, I hope you're right.
DeleteDan & Alan: How could you possibly think the highly-educated and politically-savvy American people would be gullible enough to believe the "fake & corrupt news media" and "treasonous Democrats" over the anti-corruption genius we have as our president?!! Whenever you see anything.....even if it seems like it's Trump himself saying terrible things, they remember the slick CGI that can be used by those liberal, elitist, Hollywood types to make it look like he's the one talking and have figured out it's the Deep State behind it all. Trump 2020! MAGA-gagga-oooga-booga! ;-)
DeleteKD: Red had a fantastic poster on his blog about this a week or so ago. I'll repost it next week. As much as I've steered away from politics lately, I agree that this ability to deny what you see and hear from the horse's mouth is positively Orwellian and really needs to be called out. As you pointed out, there is definitely a place for sarcasm, and surely this is it.
DeleteDoes this actually have anything to do with the topic? If so, it's not apparent to me.
DeleteNo, but it's a diversion among people who actually did address the topic, who usually do, and who contribute long and thoughtful responses on a regular basis. In other words -- go fuck yourself.
DeleteAlso, is this "richard" again, by any chance? Please feel free to go away again. Haven't missed you at all.
DeleteI get it. If a comment is totally off topic (why Trump will lose), then it's fine when from one of your blog friends (even though you avoid politics). But if it's totally on topic (wife doubles punishment in her determination to stop husband's swearing), then you criticize it when it's from an ESL poster you don't much care for. But of course, it's your blog so you can express your arrogance any way you want. Maybe your wife should take a look at this example.
DeleteHow do you know I don't care for him, Richard? Sorry, "r"ichard. I don't even know who he is. And, before he posted his clarification, I had no way of knowing that he was an ESL poster. It very well could have been that he was an English language native who blasts out stream of consciousness "here is a time I got spanked and then had to stand in the corner" comments with the Siri-based spelling, grammar, or word choice errors. Or, given the extent of those errors, maybe HE is Donald Trump!
DeleteThough, you are right, strictpunishedhubby's comment probably was more on point than was apparent to me on first reading. So, in the spirit of Liz's efforts with Arthur, I hereby apologize to strictpunishedhubby. You, however, still can go fuck yourself.
DeleteHi Guys,
DeleteJust want to weigh in on the political fray. But before I do, a quick disclaimer: I know next to nothing about politics and really don't care to know much more, so my opinion is probably worth just about what you are paying for it!
In 2016, even when the Republican field was 16 candidates, I was pretty sure (and quick to tell others) that I thought Trump would win. That is not to say that he necessarily should have won, or that it was a good thing in any way, but still I just really felt that it was going to go that way.
And again, for 2020, I think that unless things change dramatically, Trump is likely to win again. And again, I am not saying that he should win, just that I think he will.
For the situation to change (in my mind), the Democrats need to do at least 2 things: first off, the Democrats in congress need to focus on pushing a clear legislative agenda, rather than trying to somehow remove Trump from office (which is almost certainly not going to happen, and will likely only make him stronger. What they are doing is acting like opposition, rather than to show true leadership. They should be casting vision, in my opinion. Secondly, there needs to be a decision whether it is better to try to get everything they want or if it is better to ensure that Trump is out. If you want Trump out at any cost, then run someone who will get the broadest cross-section of support (so more on the near-center side to snag as many independent and Republican voters as possible), but preferably someone more interesting and charismatic than Biden, and with less baggage than Clinton had.
Anyway, just my $.02...
-ZM
DeleteI feel behavior modification and/or attitude adjustment is the point of a spanking. If it's not effective in motivating the change, it can only be a game. I don't want there to be anger involved, just confident control that means business. Her judgment regarding etiquette and manners must be respected, and profanity may be strongly discouraged. It depends on her opinion of it. Compatibility is so important here.
Not going to get into Trump, but the Democrats are impeaching because it's their constitutional duty, and to uphold their oath of office. That's leadership. It may not be politically advantageous. It may not end in removal. Lay all the facts out there and then the people, limited as our particular system fosters and allows, will decide. Dems are of course also pushing a legislative agenda, more of which will have a chance if enough of the Republican swamp can be drained.
ZM: Your two cents and mine are pretty similar, though I don't think it's "likely" Trump will win. But, I do think there is a high enough probability of it that the biggest danger for the Dems is complacency. Of course, in 2016 Trump was running against a candidate that many people just did not like. I've never quite understood how Hillary generated such strong feelings, but she plainly did. FWIW, I delight in grossing people out by saying that I actually found her kind of hot, at least the slightly younger version when she ran against Obama.
DeleteBrett: I agree that modifying the behavior is the whole point of a disciplinary spanking, though I don't agree that if that doesn't happen then it's just a game. As we've discussed, effectiveness seems to require some combination of consistency, severity and certainty. The fact the combination hasn't been landed on (yet) doesn't mean it's a game. Plus, the longer we are at this, the more I recognize that for many woman, expressing their displeasure through a spanking or other punishment, i.e. "payback" can itself be a goal and, as far as I'm concerned a perfectly legit one.
DeleteDan: I wanted to say, if it's not meant to be effective in motivating the change, it can only be a game. That's in my mind. People have other reasons for spanking, and though the revenge motive doesn't work for me, I wouldn't characterize that as a game either.
DeleteI've always had a generally favorable opinion of Hillary - a highly accomplished woman with loads of experience in a leadership role. Certainly Fem-dom worthy. LOL. With the benefit of hindsight, it's hard to imagine any progressive-minded or genuinely "conservative" person in the country who didn't vote for her in '16 not regretting it.
Brett: On the last point, rationalization is a powerful tool for some people. I have friends who helped toss the election to George Bush in 2000 by voting for Ralph Nader and who helped elect Trump by voting for Jill Stein, and they will defend those votes with their dying breath.
DeleteWhen I described a friend in the presence of my wife during a discussion as an asshole, ordered my wife later at home to bring her the cane. She said, because of my improper misbehavior, I get 25 punches on my bare butt! I answered back to her, I did not affront he but justified the acquaintance. Was probably a mistake of mine, because she argued that my bad behavior would also fall back on her negatively as my wife. It would seem that she does not control me! Result, because of unreasonableness I got 50 blows and had to then for thinking for an hour in the corner about my rudeness. strictpunishedhubby
ReplyDeleteDoes this actually have anything to do with the topic? If so, it's not apparent to me.
DeleteIt speaks to a wife's determination to "root out" a particular behavior, which is the topic exactly.
DeleteHallo Dan
DeleteI understood this week's theme as changing bad behavior. In addition to swearing, insults from my wife's point of view are a bad behavior that requires a change in me. Change with me reached them most impressively for me, by flogging. That's why I wrote my article on your blog. If you think that my post does not fit the theme please delete my post, after all it is your blog and you decide what will be published here. It may be because my English is not so good that I have misunderstood or misinterpreted something. Even if you delete my contribution, I would like to thank you for your excellent blog and your effort you make it with it. strictpunishedhubby
The topic was about particular ways in which a wife shows her determination to root out a particular habit, not just some instance that you did something wrong and got spanked.
DeleteStrictpunishedhubby, you are right. Your post was more on point that I appreciated, and I should have read it more closely.
DeleteMy wife has a kind of "three-strikes" system on certain things or behavior she wants changed. First comes a verbal request. If the behaviour is not addressed by me, the request is repeated over her knee durring a weekly maintenance session. After that, should I continue with the behavior, her punishment demeanor makes an appearance...often involving the addition of her dreaded cane. And yes, it has had a very positive outcome in our household. Of course there is the occasional backsliding...
ReplyDeleteHi Anthony. Haven't heard from you in a while. Welcome back!
ReplyDeleteThanks Dan.
ReplyDeleteYeah...life tends to get busy at times.
Hi Dan,
ReplyDeleteI can't really say that my wife has ever resolutely decided to change some behavior. Perhaps the closest she has come was with regards to me getting mad every time she went out with friends or family or stayed out too long, particularly if it happened during one of the rare moments that we could be alone together. However, coming home to a cranky husband sucked all the fun out of going out for her, which she finally addressed a couple of times with punishments. It was not so much her resolve that caused me to change, but rather because I clearly saw that my attitude and actions were having a negative impact on her, and I hated the thought that I was taking the fun out of her not-frequent outings.
Having said all this, I believe that the reason that she hasn't decisively decided to change more things is because of two factors. First off, we have not been together all that many years, so all of my little quirks are still somewhat less irritating than they might be after another 10 or 20 years. Secondly, and probably much more significantly, she still just doesn't think about punishing me for smaller things and hasn't fully grasped the power she holds to change things she doesn't really like.
I fully expect that as time passes, she will become much quicker to turn to discipline to address little annoyances, as she sees that not only does she have the means to change things whenever she so desires, but also that I actually WANT her to flex her muscles in that way. Hopefully, at some point instead of starting to feel frustrated, instead she will immediately think to pick up a paddle or cane.
-ZM
Hi ZM. Do you really think our quirks become more irritating over time? I tend to think the key to most long-term marriages is progressively ignoring about everything your spouse says and does. ;-)
DeleteSeriously, your second point really resonates with me. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt my wife gets annoyed by things like me rolling my eyes at a point she has made, when I don't listen when she's talking, and other "small things" like that, which all demonstrate a lack of respect, lack of appropriate engagement, etc. And, yes, some small habits that annoy her, like leaving certain chores half done, not making sure the doors all are locked before I come up to bed, etc. We talk incessantly about her authority to correct those things, yet it doesn't really seem to happen. Like you, I actually WANT her to flex her muscles in that way. I think, at bottom, the problem is she still can't quite figure out why someone would want that kind of treatment, which leads to doubts about whether I really do, which leads to doubts about whether I really will submit if she steps things up, etc.
Yes, why would a successful, confident man want that kind of treatment? Please make that a topic! I am the estranged wife of an alpha male and we are considering reuniting. He has asked me for domestic discipline as you describe if we do get back together. He says he needs it but can't explain why. I am baffled and looking for answers, particularly from strong males like Dan and some others on this blog. I understand that dominatrixes say much of their clientele is powerful men looking for relief from always being "on." But this is far different, an alpha male who wants his wife to treat him like a naughty child. Please, someone, help me understand the psychology of this and what I would be getting myself into. I have been searching the internet and most males craving punishment are submissives. Here there are some who are not, and I hope to hear from them. A topic for next week?
DeleteA confused wife, "Belle"
Hi Dan,
DeleteI think your comment was spot on:"We talk incessantly about her authority to correct those things, yet it doesn't really seem to happen. Like you, I actually WANT her to flex her muscles in that way. I think, at bottom, the problem is she still can't quite figure out why someone would want that kind of treatment, which leads to doubts about whether I really do, which leads to doubts about whether I really will submit if she steps things up, etc." I really hadn't thought much about that, but I think you are exactly right. Since she can't really understand the root of the desire (nor can I for that matter), it is hard to take the step of doing something about it because it just doesn't seem reasonable that I actually want something that I so DON'T WANT at the time.
And then somewhat related to that, in terms of her actually punishing for small things, is the sense of fairness that Alan has spoken of several times. My wife is very fair to everyone, all the time. And the fact is, anything that would actually be punishment for me will have to be far more severe than would seem appropriate for something small, like leaving socks on the floor. On the other hand, these little things are seldom one-time events but rather bad habits that happen continuously, and a very sore bottom would be much easier to get over than would accumulated irritations that might turn into resentment and even affect the relationship.
-ZM
Belle: Sure. I will make that a topic for next week, though I think for most of us it's a guess at best as to what makes us tick. So, guys, let's hold off on answer this until I post the next topic, please.
DeleteZM: I think for me, "punishment" can be something much less than one of our full-blown sessions to correct fairly serious issues. For example, if she had told me repeatedly to shut the pantry door, and I once again left it open, perhaps the first real correction would be 10 to 20 hard swats with a paddle. It's true that even 20 swats are pretty minor in the scheme of things. But, if it happened immediately after she noticed the pantry door open, and the swats were hard enough to hurt a lot, I do think there is a good chance that it would be a sufficient "reminder" that I would correct the problem, at least for a significant period of time.
DeleteDan and Belle,
DeleteHappy that Dan will make this a future topic and thank Belle for suggesting it. I believe based on years trying to understand it that alpha males in particular owe it to themselves to understand the desire for discipline given the inherent contradiction in it. Males that identify as submissive may feel the same but I just don't know. The other and equally important reason to articulate the reasons for seeking discipline is to support a wife who often wants to be there for her husband but in particular does not understand why an alpha male needs discipline at home. I will wait until the topic is offered to say more but hope that every husband in a DD relationship ( or who wants to be) will try to explain as fully as possible what is driving that need. Our wives certainly deserve to know.
Alan
My wife's determination (with support of an email to both my wife and we got from my son who was a medical student working on a cancer stricken man as a cadaver) decided to add smoking to a list of behaviors we both agreed to that justified my being spanked did correct that bad habit I had of smoking. I wasn't a heavy smoker, didn't smoke at home, but smoked at work. I was supposed to admit to my wife I was still smoking after agreeing I wouldn't smoke and did a few times. But the paddling's were so severe I tried to hide them from her. Well I got caught and she was furious that I was still smoking and lying to boot. She used her old sororityy paddle , about 30 inches long, 4 inches wide and close to an inch in width. Solid oak. NeXT thing I knew I was bending over the back of the couch bare bottomed getting more than 50 swats with that damn thing. I had blisters, bruises, and some blood from that paddling. My wife, who is a tennis player, was swinging that thing like a cross court smash. I never wanted to experience that incident again. I quit smoking after that and haven't smoked since. That was more than 20 years ago, and now smoking by others bothers me. I didn't enjoy that experience of being forced to quit, but it was probably the greatest favor my wife could have done for me.
ReplyDeleteI quit cold turkey, but only after about a dozen attempts. It was shortly after my wife and I got together, but no DD at that time. I wonder whether some of those preliminary attempts might have been successful had my wife been around and been an enforcer. It's amazing to me that people think they can hid smoking. I can smell a smoker from 10 feet away.
DeleteThere are types of behavior that I wish L. would avoid - and I will spank him for them... but it doesn't seem to be effective, with the result that I need to spank him more often (and harder) -which he doesn't seem to mind! Whether or not he is "reformable", however, has long since ceased to preoccupy me, and I will continue to apply the crop, the strap, the cane etc. as often as needed...
ReplyDeleteJ.
J: You must admit that I have tried to avoid some types of "misbehavior" (such as the one that earned me a harsh caning earlier tonight) but, as we both know, your first impulse is always to whip me first (and expect me to thank you for it!)... Yes, I am used to it - and will always thank you for it - but would you agree that my behavior has "improved" over the years?
ReplyDeleteL.
Yes, but not to the extent that will spare you from another dose of the cane (or of the crop!) when you next need it!... Not to mention what you know you can expect when you fail to adequately perform you household chores over the weekend - or the outdoors birchings you get when we go for a hike in the woods!
DeleteJ.
I know...I know! And the whipping I just got an hour ago reminds me of what's probably in store for me over the weekend!
DeleteL.
So..? You got the cane yesterday, and the martinet tonight... You know why you deserved it - and don't expect that you won't be "rewarded" again tomorrow... or Sunday if (and when) we go out for that "hike in the woods"!
DeleteJ.
I am 'lucky' to have a very determined wife for most of the time and the area that she has been working since day one of our DD phase has been respect (with it's irritating baby brother, sarcasm). Other offenses come and go as reasons for punishment but respect and my now occasional lack of it has been top of the list consistently.
ReplyDeleteAny displays of disrespect almost invariably get noted verbally or with the look. If she remembers (and she mostly does) each instance is pored over when I am in situ for the almost obligatory weekly session. There is rarely any escape and we do no finish until I have fully accepted the error, agreed to refocus and until she is happy that the message has been received.
On a side note and as a request for advice, our short synthetic cane actually broke in use a couple of weeks ago and although the strap is her 'go-to' implement (a preference I would support if I had to make a choice) she does like the lightness of the little cane as well as the response that a well weighted stroke elicits from the recipient. I have therefore under orders procured a replacement synthetic cane (which seems a good deal 'whippier' and heavier than the broken one) and a mid-length traditional rattan cane - which I am already very nervous about. Is there any sensible instruction (written or video ) anywhere online on use of these items as she is a bit nervous about how serious they could be (not nearly as much as I am!)?
Any help gratefully received ... TB