Saturday, September 28, 2019

Club Meeting 314 - Talking Your Way Out - Unsuccessfully

“You can't talk your way out of a problem you behaved your way into!” - Stephen R. Covey

Hello all. Welcome back to The Disciplinary Couple’s Club.  Our weekly on-line gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, a Domestic Discipline relationship.  I hope you all had a great week.

It’s been an interesting few weeks on the Domestic Discipline and FLR front.  I wonder from time to time whether real progress is always incremental or, rather, comes in bursts.  Sometimes things change so slowly you can’t really detect it.  Then, you look back at where you were a year or so before, and things are surprisingly different.  I feel like that’s where Anne and I are where consistency is concerned.  A little over a year ago, I posted about consistency and my track record of success in talking my way out of spankings that I knew I deserved or, if not talking my way out of them directly, talking her into a delay, which often ended up meaning no spanking at all.  As I said at the time:

“ZM and Tomy have both talked about the role their Disciplinary Wives play or played in helping them perform better in their daily lives, by setting goals and being strict in holding them accountable.  I talk to my wife about doing that, but it's my own "But, Honey . . ." moments that get in the way of those efforts. And, unfortunately, so far she hasn't developed quite enough strictness to just put her foot down. So, we both bear some responsibility here.  She does need to get more comfortable with not only giving an order but with actually making it stick in the face of some moderate resistance or questioning.  But, I also need to get much better at simply doing what she tells me to do, without argument or undermining.”


The interesting development is, a year later and kind of out of the blue, she is sticking to her guns.  A couple of weeks ago, I related that I had a really stressful weekend, and I thought she might take mercy on me and let me avoid a spanking that I otherwise deserved.  Nope.  She gave me a very sound spanking that left me sore for several days.  It happened again this week, and it was a little unexpected.  We had gone out together with some of my work colleagues on Friday, and things got a little out of control. But, I was actually not even close to the worst behaved of the group.  And, when we got home I started to fall into my preferred pattern of staying up, having a nightcap and watching a movie or listening to music.  She told me very directly to go to bed, and I resented it and complained about it. But, unlike the incident a couple of months ago in which my resistance undermined her confidence, this time I actually complied.  I didn’t like it at all, but I did obey her.  I thought that my progress on the obedience front might have earned my way out of a spanking or at least resulted in a very light one. Nope.  Her position was that while I did obey, I did it reluctantly and with a bad attitude, and the obedience also did not make up for the other bad behavior that evening. 

What caused this change?  I really don’t know.  It does follow some communications we had about the lack of equivalence between my behavior and the consequences she imposes, in that my bad behavior is depressingly consistent, while the consequences are pretty sporadic.  But, we’ve had many talks in the past about consistency, yet none of them really seemed to stick.  This time seems to be different.

So, am I in Disciplined Husband heaven, now that I am getting some of the consistency I have been asking for?  Well, no and yes.  In the moment, I really, really, really hate getting spanked.  And, I really did think that my obedience should have earned me more kudos this week.  “Resentment” may be too strong a word, but I definitely do have some negative feelings about being kept in line.  But, this feels a lot like the way a teenager feels after a spanking or after getting grounded or losing some privilege.  And, that is exactly what I have been saying I want – and I still do want it.  
As I said a week ago, “This is what consistency looks like, and in typical Domestic Discipline fashion, part of me wants, needs and openly requests it, but then the part that really hates being spanked and remembers how badly it hurts resents being unable to get out of it.”  As it turns out consistency also results in another “benefit” I have been saying I want, namely discipline that feels imposed and non-consensual.  

As ZM said, “I agree totally about the power dynamic, both when we were kids when we hated the thought of being spanked, and now when we have done a 180 and want/need/crave imposed discipline. In fact, I think it would be fair to say that I almost need the "imposed" even more than the actual "discipline." But in other cases, I have talked her out of a spanking when I really knew that I deserved it. That is really unfair to her, because it makes it harder to be assertive like I am wanting, but then to be talked out of it when she tries. And of course, after the fact, the few times that this has happened over the several years, I have felt much more disappointed (both that it didn't happen and in myself for causing it to not happen) than the temporary relief I felt.”

The underlined portion of ZM’s comment really resonates with me.  While I hate it in the moment, I know in my heart that I really, really do need to be made to stay within the lines.  I hate boundaries, yet I know I need them, and they don't feel like real boundaries if I have to impose them on myself.  But, now that I am experiencing true consistency, I'm finding that the undermining and unfairness that ZM is concerned about may have a paradoxical aspect in which resistance actually augments the FLR aspect of the relationship. Now that she is being more consistent, I feel like trying to talk her out of it, but failing, actually augments her authority and verifies that she really is in charge.  Her strictness in the face of my resistance confirms her status as the Boss.  Something that once did undermine her authority now paradoxically enforces it.  I also think her imposing discipline in the face of some mild resistance from me results in a virtuous circle in which her confidence goes up each time she gives me a spanking when I really don’t want one and try to avoid or delay it.

I can’t say I have a tightly defined topic related to all this.  Instead, I’m interested in your reactions and experiences.  For the Wives, how do you deal with resistance?  Have you experienced a surge of pride or confidence by being faced with some resistance but overcoming it and sticking to your guns?  Does the resistance result in any extra or different punishment?  For the men, have there been times you have tried genuinely but unsuccessfully to get out of a spanking? How did you react to getting one despite your best efforts?

I hope you have a great week.

43 comments:

  1. Yes. I tried to get out of them in the past and even recently. This was the “ woodshed” day. She announced she was going to take care of matters the next day at 2:00 out in the back shed.Things never go well for me out there. The next day I made her coffee and breakfast. Pleased her orally and I thought all was great. At 2:00 she called me in and said it was time for our “ discussion “. I said I did those nice things hoping the matter would be forgiven. Dev said everything was very nice but it didn’t change anything. When got to the shed , she goes into discipline mode. We arrived at 2:00. As promised a very memorable paddling was given. We were back in the house about 2:15. All was forgiven and she was in a good mood again. JR

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    1. Even when I don't actively try to get out of one, I often engage in such wishful thinking, convincing myself that she has forgotten or forgiven.

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  2. L. never -or very seldom- attempts to "talk his way" out of a spanking (having learned, over the years, from his late wife... and from me!) that it may result in a harsher (or doubled) session... He may (and sometimes will) beg for "forgiveness" - which I may grant when I feel that his derrière is sufficiently bruised to stay sore until he needs another "reminder" (as is the case tonight)...
    J.

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    1. This being the weekend (when L. is "on duty" to perform his weekend chores) he was -again!- given a dose of the martinet yesterday morning... before we went out for a stroll in the woods (in Summer-like weather) where he got - as he undoubtedly expected - one of those switchings that I love to administer! Thanks to "global warming",those outdoors sessions might go on until November... but switches will continue to be supplied , (by L.) to be used (by me!) as often as needed!...
      J.

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    2. Yes, this weather means that I have experienced those "outdoors sessions" every Sunday - except today, when unexpected rainfalls kept us from those weekly walks - but J. chose to make up for it with an improvised "indoors" session with one of the switches she keeps at home (in addition, of course, to the short - but vigorous - paddlings I regularly get when I fail to perform my weekend chores to her satisfaction...
      L.

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    3. Yes, this weather means that I have experienced those "outdoors sessions" every Sunday - except today, when unexpected rainfalls kept us from those weekly walks - but J. chose to make up for it with an improvised "indoors" session with one of the switches she keeps at home (in addition, of course, to the short - but vigorous - paddlings I regularly get when I fail to perform my weekend chores to her satisfaction...
      L.

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  3. I can say that I have never tried to talk my way out of a spanking. Most of the time I know I deserve the spanking and I am very submissive to my wife so I take what ever punishment she sees fit. Even those times where maybe I feel a spanking isn't deserved I will still take my spanking because my wife feels it's necessary and she always has final say.

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    1. "Talking my way out of a spanking" has never worked for me - even though I occasionally tried... only to find out it only meant that N and J would make a point to ignore my pleas... and, indeed, to spank or whip me harder than usual...
      L.

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    2. "Begging"or "asking for mercy" -as you must have found out over the years!- is not effective... and only encourages me to whip you harder (as I know it did with N)... Your best option is to "take it" meekly - and to make sure to thank me as I expect after you got what you deserve!

      J.

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    3. Yes, I have learned that - and last night's "session" reminded me that whether or not I "like it", you will always have the last word... and whip me as you see fit - for which I thank you again...

      L.

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  4. My wife isn't very experienced yet, but she has a line that stops me in my tracks when I try to talk my way out of a spanking.
    She says, "Do you want this disciplinary relationship to continue?"
    Of course I have to say yes.
    To which she says, "Then shut up and take off your pants."
    Then sometimes I get extra for trying to get out of it.
    Anton

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    1. It is sometimes helpful to be presented with a binary choice.

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    2. Hi Anton,
      I mentioned exactly this in my comment last week that Dan used this week. He just cut out that section. The ultimate sanction for her is to stop the DD relationship, since it is ME that wants and needs that, not her. She benefits from it, but I need it. Consequently, this is real leverage. Or of course if she doesn't want to play that card, she could (and should) ramp up the punishment significantly if I object.

      -ZM

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    3. I have to admit that when she said, "Shut up and pull down your pants," I felt something in my loins and did exactly what she said. All my reasons for not deserving a spanking just disappeared. If I argue again, it will probably be just to trigger that bossiness!
      Anton

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  5. Under our agreement I have no grounds for objecting to a spanking because her disciplinary authority includes " anytime,any place,for any reason", conditions I originally suggested and she readily accepted.It keeps that part of it simple and free of the arguments about whether a behavior deserves a spanking, arguments that occurred too often in my first DD relationship with the girlfriend who introduced me to DD. However I can respectfully ask for a delay which I have done and she usually grants ( but not always). Other than asking for a delay I am expected to cooperate readily and "with good grace" ( no pouting)She does allow and even encourages me to talk about my feelings about the spanking AFTER it is over but almost always I have found that my pre-spanking objections have vanished after it is over. Mostly they are just rationalizations to avoid a spanking although they seem real at the time). This is one area where having a previous DD relationship helped because I damaged that relationship by too much objecting and even refusing to take a spanking (I actually still feel some shame when I remember doing that today)My former girlfriend had strong feelings about "fairness" and making sure her punishments were fair. I used that to talk her out of several spankings or reducing the severity of a spanking and that did serious harm to the relationship and her commitment to discipline.
    Alan

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    1. Hi Alan. I can certainly understand how a wife's concerns about being fair could be used against her. I also understand what you mean about disappearing rationalizations. Though, recently her spankings have been so hard, the thought that a spanking was harder than deserved may not recede immediately. Again, it feels like a adolescent or teenager being punished -- it may take a while to accept that it is for your own good. And, it's not strictly necessary that I finally get to that attitude at all, as it's necessary that I be punished, not that I feel happy with that. In fact, it may be indicative that it really is punishment if I do NOT feel happy about it, at least not right away.

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    2. Hi Alan,
      Like you we supposedly have an understanding that she has the authority to discipline me "anytime, anyplace, for any reason." However, as I have thought about this the past few weeks, I have realized that I really have undermined that several times. My wife too is ok with granting delays most of the time, but I have also talked her out of things several times and I can see that it has not been ideal. I am intrigued about your being encouraged to talk about your feelings but only after the spanking. I think there may be some power in that, because you know that ultimately your feelings will be heard, but at the same time it doesn't discourage her. One question about that though ties back to your point about fairness (which I totally agree with). I would fear that if I could only raise my concerns or air my feelings after a spanking, and considering her strong desire for fairness, if I happen to have a really valid point, might that not trigger a certain feeling of guilt since she might realize she was unfair? Did you ever have anything like that happen? Or maybe it doesn't happen because of what you were saying about most of the time, your reasons evaporate during the spanking?

      And Dan, I like what you said that it is "not strictly necessary that I finally get to that attitude at all, as it's necessary that I be punished, no that I feel happy with that. In fact, it may be indicative that it really is punishment if I do NOT feel happy about it, at least not right away." Good insight!

      -ZM

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  6. How oddly timely. And how pertinent to my growing feeling that I will never be "one of you".

    Yesterday, after a bit of a disgruntled grumbling (it was not really what one could call an argument) Rosa was upset enough to call me to the room for what I imagined was going to be a spanking. I went with a kind of "OK, let's see where this goes" attitude because I myself was not entirely happy with her behavior and that was a part of what prompted my grumbling.

    What followed was.......for lack of a better way to describe it...."pure us". It resembled nothing I read here. She confronted me on my behavior and her issue with it ( at one brief point with tears in her eyes) and I very politely....but with very convincing exasperation .....countered with what SHE had done to cause it. And? She said that I was right ...at least partially, and that perhaps we should just forget the punishment, but added that it seemed like it violated her purported authority to do so. I half agreed and we talked some more and I showed a willingness to admit to partial blame and accept punishment for THAT part.

    It worked for both of us to then continue and she then got much more power-teasy and I kept countering (playfully) with how her power argument was just a trump card to shift blame from herself to me......something she had to chucklingly admit I was absolutely correct about.

    So what happened? I said my part, she admitted her own culpability, I admitted to mine, and she punished me for that portion. During the punishment she tried to teasingly get me to agree to whatever she said, (something I won't do, and never have) and we ended up laughing a bit and feeling utterly resolved on all levels.

    Afterwards she bragged to Marta publicly about spanking me....which made her feel powerful, but I also thanked her for admitting to her own flaws which I said was the reason why I can submit to her. That if she was the type of person who needed unconditional submission that I would never agree and we would not have a DD relationship. But because we can both be honest about what IS my fault and what ISN'T......and the grey areas in-between, my trust is reaffirmed.

    So we had a great day, and even better night and are still very lovey-dovey today (through texts and calls). My refusal to accept whatever she said unconditionally has not shaken our DD but strengthened it so that it is more genuinely about behavior than about submission.

    to be cont'd.....

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    1. KD, that sounds exactly like how a DD relationship should work (or at least one way). Open discussion, compromise, swift resolution, and a strengthed relationship. Bravo!

      -ZM

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  7. Which brings me to a question that NO ONE here is going to like: If you are a practitioner of "DD" with a distaste or disinclination towards BDSM play spanking, and yet have an agreement that "whatever she says is law, whatever she wants to punish for is legitimate, and she is the supreme authority no matter what" is that not MORE BDSM than DD? Wouldn't DD in its purest form be about justice and not power? And isn't BDSM more about power than justice? I identify as a BDSM person with a DD aspect to our relationship. And yet? When I read these "she is right no matter what......otherwise it undermines her authority"-type remarks, I can't help but picture a Mistress/slave relationship instead of a spousal, disciplinary arrangement to correct genuine issues. A Mistress might never be wrong or open to questioning, but isn't a spouse, disciplinary or vanilla, just as prone to 'being wrong' as the spouse who wants a DD relationship? Shouldn't DD be about what the one party is genuinely guilty of and not just whatever the dominant spouse SAYS he is guilty of?

    When Rosa began speaking in these Toppy terms, and I resisted, we ended up laughing because the notion of "she's right merely by virtue of her holding the paddle" was much more sexy and playful than serious. Rosa even began to exaggerate her demands for my capitulation as she spanked until I began to promise her I'd comply....as I jokingly held up my crossed fingers. She laughed so much when I did that that all tension dissipated.

    So, as I said at the outset, even though we consider ourselves as having a DD arrangement, ours seems like the one totally oddball one among all of you. But...LOL....I hope that doesn't get me banished. ;-)

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    1. I think parsing our terms and categorizing our experiences with regard to whet is DD or BDSM or something else -isn't useful. If it works,it works is a better rubric for individuals couples. Our anytime, any where for any reason rule is a practical solution to the fact that many men ( me)too often talk or try to talk their way out of a deserved spanking and at least some women are susceptible to this tactic because of an ingrained concern about "fairness" In practice she has rarely spanked me without plenty of warnings that a behavior is "spankable" so the rule sounds much more draconian than it is -and it eliminates destructive arguments.It also builds trust and reinforces obedience
      Alan

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    2. I don't know whether "she's always right because she's the woman" or "she's always right because we've agreed she is" is BDSM, but the former at least is certainly a Femdom element that isn't necessarily about discipline. But, I also don't see it as an either-or dichotomy, which is what I think Alan is saying. I really can't think of a time when she has spanked me where she was genuinely factually wrong about something and I was genuinely factually right. At most, there have been times when I thought a spanking shouldn't have been as hard as it was, because there was some kind of mitigating factor or I didn't see the behavior as that big a deal. Were those "unfair"? Maybe. Does it inject an element of BDSM or Femdom if I submit? I don't know. I think that is a situation that doesn't fit neatly into any particular bucket. Particularly in my case. My ego gets me into A LOT of trouble, as does my anti-authoritarian bent. So, one can make the case that anything that forces me to give in to someone else's will-- ESPECIALLY when I think I am right and they are wrong--is discipline in the sense of forcing to accept situations in which I don't always get my own way. It's kind of like the military training model, which I admire more and more as I get older despite having never served. New recruits can be headstrong, and they may absolutely disagree with things the drill sergeant makes them do. They may see those things as unfair. And, there is a fair amount of seemingly gratuitous bossing around and putting the recruit in his or her place. But, it serves the larger purpose of building stronger character over time and, yes, of conditioning them to take orders when it really matters.

      I don't there is a bright line around resistance or lack thereof that puts something in the DD bucket or the BDSM bucket. And, in terms of practicality, I think everything depends on the couple at issue and their dynamic at the time. Alan undermined his first DD relationship by resisting and questioning. In the beginning, my wife probably would have felt undermined too had I done a lot of that, but as discussed in this week's post today she is a lot more confident and, thus, resistance could reinforce her confidence rather than undermining it. You have the ability to question and quibble with Rosa that the spanking she is going to give is about Offense A but not about Offense B, and it seems to work fine because she has a certain amount of confidence in her role. Others, particularly those just starting out in these lifestyles, may not be in the same boat.

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    3. I only mentioned the DD vs. BDSM aspect because it honestly had never occurred to me before when these issues had come up here on the blog. (And the notion of not being able to argue out of a punishment has come up a lot.) It sort of shocked me the more I thought about it. Even now as I read particular comments this week, certain ones really seem to reek of a BDSM/Femdom vibe to me much more than a DD arrangement. If you go back to certain DD understandings, there is always mention of the "Spencer Plan". And while I have no interest in that method, it is the epitome of disciplinary fairness without Femdom or Male-dom overtones.

      So not so much with intent to rile but a genuine "ah ha" or "wow, I hadn't thought of that before" moment, did I bring up the issue. And yes I can see how defaulting to her always being 'right' can help boost confidence and overcome excuses from guys for genuine misbehavior......but neither of those things are issues for Rosa and me.

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    4. kdpierre wrote:
      I can't help but picture a Mistress/slave relationship instead of a spousal, disciplinary arrangement to correct genuine issues.
      _______________________________

      I think it is probably a matter of perspective. Certainly, there is nothing "wrong" with your viewpoint, especially if that is how you relate to it. My take would be that others simply have other perspectives. Personally, I relate to the phrase "maternal discipline orientation" (to borrow the phrase that Aunt Kay used on the DWC site) - which means that she has the final say (just as Mom would) no matter what I say, and I am most likely going to get the spanking regardless. Of course, we can and probably should talk about the reason for my spanking, but the spanking is almost always going to happen regardless of that conversation. There are of course occasional exceptions due to genuine misunderstandings or exceptional circumstances where an appropriate explanation might negate the need for a spanking (just as Mom might let you off when she found out that you were late because you had a flat tire). That is not to say there is any sort of Oedipus complex present - or that we see our wives as "motherly" , but I think the concept of "maternal discipline orientation" - in contrast to "Mistress/slave relationship" - works for me in terms of understanding the blanket consent that I have granted to my wife in the matter of corporal discipline.
      ________________

      Alan and Dan - Thanks for the kind words about "Even More" on last week's blog post. I did not have a chance to reply back before the new weekly post went up, so decided it would be best just to reply to you here. I wrote the story in January of 2000 as part of my own internal processing regarding my strong interest in F/M DD discipline.

      It was not actually based on real life experience - other than having had two significant otk paddlings in earlier years, once when I was ten from a (relatively) young and attractive aunt who very soundly hairbrushed me in my underwear (and I credit this experience with later triggering my F/M spanking desires when I hit puberty) and then one otk bare bottom paddling from an older lady I was having a fling with when I was 18 (she was kinky and really liked to be paddled, but when I seemed a bit shy with it, she gave me a very real demonstration - that soon had me yelping and bouncing around) So I did have an idea of what a real bare bottom otk paddling was like - and I'm sure that helped in writing the story.

      Like so many others, when the Net came online for the public, I searched out more info on my secret interest in F/M discipline. I learned from various sources online, but the two most important were Aunt Kay's DWC, and the alt.sex.spanking Usenet newsgroup - where I read lots of spanking stories, and used many of the ideas I found there in crafting stories of my own, one of which was "Even More". I sent a copy to Aunt Kay anonymously and she added it to her fiction story site.

      In a sense, the story became a self fulfilling prophecy in the Fall of 2002. As my wife and I both swapped fantasies one evening over too much wine, I revealed my fascination with spanking - even sharing the story of my spanking from the "older woman" - and I experienced one of the Great Surprises of my life when my wife decided that sounded like great fun (and I had been convinced that was strictly vanilla because she had completely ignored previous more subtle spanking comments I had made) - and took a ping pong paddle to my behind. The next morning she did it again and said that maybe that was just what I needed - at which point I showed her the DWC site (it was a couple of years later that I told her that I had written "Even More" back in 2000)

      Again, thanks for the kind words. --al

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    5. I agree with KD that a couple should be able to discuss whether a punishment is warranted and decide that together without the wife feeling so threatened. That's how we do it. But I understand that other marriages are different.

      With us, either can initiate the discussion. Recently I told a story about work and she said, "Sounds like your arrogance was rearing its ugly head again." I thought for a moment and replied, "I think you're right." With kids at home, she said, "Then we will address that at the first opportunity." And we did!
      I realized later that I probably told the story because on some level I knew I needed correction. But if I legitimately believed I was not being arrogant, we would have discussed it further and come to agreement.
      Arthur

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    6. Al, thanks for the back story on "Even More." I really do enjoy it and have read it many, many times.

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    7. Thanks, Arthur. I am trying to recall whether I've ever told her something that may have been a subconscious desire to provoke a spanking. I can't think of one offhand, but I see how it could happen.

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    8. Wow! I must be in an agreeable mood today. I read all of these comments and agreed with everyone.

      KD, I totally get what you were saying, that in fact DD is punishment for a purpose. I think there is plenty of gray area, however, since it also seems reasonable that if she spanks you occasionally and presumably less severely as more of a maintenance thing, that may still fit OK into the DD model. But if she is just spanking you to flex her muscles then that sure sounds more like BDSM. I really liked the way you said it that DD is more "about justice than power." The same is true about it being more about accountability than about pain. Spanking is just a tool.

      At the same time, I agree with Alan that the whole trying to make a distinction isn't really that helpful. Certainly it is correct that every relationship is different, and whatever works for anyone is great, regardless of if or how we choose to label it. If someone were to label me, I too am in a blended sort of thing like KD, except I would say that we are more DD with a bit of a BDSM aspect. For me, we can play and do about anything and it is fun, but it really only comes to life when it is real punishment for something real. And even in those real punishments, we are likely to use some non-spanking punishments that normally might seem more like normal BDSM activities, just that they are re-purposed for real punishment instead of play.

      Now with regard to the wife having the final say, I don't have any problem with that. What we are asking of our wives isn't easy, so we need to cut them some slack, and certainly not undercut them. At the same time, in real life (as opposed to in concept), this is sometimes hard for me, especially hard when we have a philosophical difference. If it is something that we can both agree is wrong, even if I don't necessarily think I crossed that line I can be ok with her punishing me. Or if she just wants to spank me because she feels like it or to show she can, I am ok with that too. But if she is spanking me for something, and if I disagree with her strongly about the whole underlying concept, that is something I am not always as graceful about. In those cases, I should heed Alan's warning about not damaging the DD relationship. Also, as several have pointed out, sometimes we are deluding ourselves because we just don't want a spanking.

      In the end, I want us to be able to discuss it if we disagree, but then I also want her to mostly be resolute and hold her ground, so I guess I want it all...!

      And finally, Al, I too would say that your "Even More" was one of the best, if not the best, spanking story I have ever read.

      -ZM

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    9. Thanks, ZM, for the thoughtful comment. It is very gratifying to hear there are those who enjoyed the story and even found it helpful with their own internal processing. I think I have posted this small note here before - I was very flattered that my story was chosen for the DWC fiction section, but there was one minor disappointment in that part of the last sentence of the story was omitted (probably while being copied/pasted) - especially since the omitted phrase tied the end of the story back to the title. The last sentence on the DWC reads "And suddenly he realized, just as Susan had predicted, he did" ... but should have continued with the phrase "indeed love her even more". --al

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    10. Can Tomy fix it?
      Great story.
      Anton

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    11. I'm close to agreeing with KDP on that. Occasionally comments here reek more of Mistress/slave than DD. There's really a fine line between the two.

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  8. He can try to talk his way out of it, but he won't succeed. Once I have decreed and scheduled the Disciplinary Session, it's going to happen. I expect a certain amount of pleading and begging, but, once I have had enough, I let him know.

    Sometimes, things beyond our control interfere. I had him scheduled for discipline one night, but he came down with something while he was at work. I could see he wasn't in his corner, but I found him in the bad and he just said the Dead Stop safe word. I could tell he was sick, so I just rescheduled it. One time I got the flu a couple of days before a scheduled Disciplinary Session. I just told him I'd reschedule it. Meanwhile, he just voluntarily put on his maid dress and petticoats and waited on me. I don't know if he did it to see if I'd let him off or go easy on him (I didn't), but, it was a nice gesture. He probably didn't do it to try to get out of his well deserved discipline, he's just thoughtful like that.

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    1. As a couple with kids, we certainly know all about things beyond our control interfering . . .

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  9. Much like some of the posters above, our relationship leaves me no method to escape a punishment. She and she alone determines if a punishment is due and I must comply without comment. There simply is no talking my way out of a spanking. This concept has not increased nor decreased in the 11 plus years of our DD household. It is true, she does not like to punish, but will do so when necessary. I have overheard her talking with other Dominant females about the DD lifestyle. When asked what occurs when I disobey or break a rule, she simply answers "He gets spanked". Other questions like 'What if he explains....' get the same answer... He gets spanked! Even querys like, What if you feel it was a minor offense? receive the standard answer..He Gets Spanked!!! This is the way our relationship was set up and the way it continues to work. And I want it that way.

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    1. I admire the openness, and congratulate her on the consistency.

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  10. I only started disciplining my husband after we nearly broke upo after ten years of marriage. His moods and behaviour l;ed to me giving him an ultimatum. He take a belt to his bottom or leave him. He eventually chose the former.
    Now every Friday he we go through his week and most weeks he is rewarded with sex in and I dress to please. Around one week in five he has not measured up and is slippered, strapped or in very bad weeks caned. Ife he merits the strap or can there is no dressing up and no sex - it is punishment

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  11. i like how you presented this it is on both of us, me minding better so she doesn't have to discipline and her enforcing when i go the way side. i want her to enforce and control to make me a better hubby but yet i am afraid of the punishment. some wives think that we enjoy pain and think its pointless.

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  12. Hi Dan,
    Another great topic! Initially I was thinking this one was pretty straight-forward but as I think about it more, I realize that it is not as clear-cut as I initially thought.

    Part of what makes it so difficult is needing discipline to feel imposed, and the other part is that kind of like KD has said a few times, I don’t feel very good about being punished for something that I really disagree with. I know that many people here pride themselves in their submission, and to show it they quickly get themselves in position and stay that way for the duration of punishment. I respect that and think it is great that it works for them. I could do that too, but it just changes the dynamic so much that it still leaves a lot lacking for me. I sometimes need it to be a little closer to your rebellious teenager example.

    In the end, it really depends on the situation. It would help if my wife were a mind reader!

    If the behavior, action, or attitude is something that we both agree on, both in the principle and that I clearly crossed the line, then of course I should quickly acquiesce, and if I don’t then she should definitely increase the punishment significantly. In these times, if I ask for postponement, then she could judge the situation and do whatever she thinks is best.

    If it is something that we agree on in principle, but I don’t feel that I crossed the line, then I will likely push back a bit. In that case, since we do agree on at least it being a punishable offense, and since I have given her complete discretion, then she really should just punish me anyway, whether I think I deserve it or not. As you said, Dan, this would actually really feel much more imposed in this way. And as Alan pointed out, a lot of objections seem to evaporate during the spanking anyway. For wives who are not so sure of themselves, this would be much more difficult, but I think my wife is pretty strong spirited, so it is not a stretch that she could and probably should just run right over my objections.

    Now where it gets much more difficult is when we don’t agree on the principle. There are probably some things that maybe really should be talked about. Even though she is the disciplinarian and has a lot of latitude, in the end it is a relationship and needs to work for both of us. I really have mixed feelings about this, because on the one hand, there have been things that she has punished me for that I really didn’t agree with her, and in the end, somehow the whole punishment process profoundly changed my thinking, probably because it helped me to better see things from her perspective, and maybe somewhat because when she speaks to me using my deep-seated fantasies, I do tend to really hear her heart. On the other hand, I do believe that there are some times that we have significant disagreement, and she turns out to be more wrong. In those cases, spanking me into submission won’t really accomplish anything good for either of us.

    Last week in the situation I referenced in my comment which led to this weeks topic, it was kind of a mixture. On the one hand, there were and are some underlying issues that we need to talk about and come to some agreement on. This will be better done while sitting and drinking coffee or something, rather than having me bare-bottomed and being punished. At the same time, despite my feelings (which I think are quite valid) I have about the underlying issue, I was not expressing those feelings in a helpful or constructive way. So even then, when I disagree about the underlying principle, I owe it to her to treat her kindly. So in this case I proposed, as I said last week, that she wait to punish me until we have a chance to talk through the issues, but then she will punish me for the negative way I expressed my emotions.

    Either way, I am really going to work on not trying to talk my way out of things, because most of the time it does more harm than good, and ultimately leaves me feeling not so good about everything.

    -ZM

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    1. Hi ZM. I agree it's not clear cut and, as both my post and your comment allude to, a lot may depend on where each wife is on the "work in progress" versus "strict disciplinarian" curve. For the wives who are comfortable sticking to their guns whether by virtue of natural disciplinary temperament or acquired experience, some resistance could be empowering if she overcomes it. On the other hand, for newer or less naturally assertive disciplinarians, it could be undermining. And, as you point out, these are real relationships that need to work for both parties, which in the real world (as opposed to Femdom fantasy land) require communication.

      For me, I haven't really experienced what you and others describe regarding being punished for something I really don't agree should have been "punishable," though I have felt like a punishment might have exceeded the gravity of the crime. Where I have had a bigger problem has been when she is stepping into more of an FLR role and it is telling me what to do that is at issue, versus being punished for something I have done. As in the examples I've given about being told to go to bed when I want to stay up, have a nightcap and watch a movie. There, I saw both the undermining and the empowering potential of resistance. Initially, my resistance and resistance absolutely undermined her confidence and willingness to keep working at becoming more assertive. But, after a week or so of more than normally intense communication, we not only got back on track but started making even more progress on consistency and strictness. So, paradoxically, the resistance did end up playing a somewhat positive role, but only because it was followed by real communication.

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    2. ZM: Very nicely put, and it's refreshing to read something that I can relate to more than usual. It seems like we make similar distinctions and react to those distinctions similarly as well.

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