Saturday, September 14, 2019

Club Meeting 312 - Safewords


“Don’t let your mouth get you into something your ass can’t handle.” – Basketball Diaries

Hello all. Welcome back to The Disciplinary Couple’s Club.  Our weekly on-line gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, a Domestic Discipline relationship.

Interesting week.  Where to begin?  Maybe with something that has been in the back of my mind for the last few weeks, namely the sharp uptick in comments that read more like Femdom spanking porn fantasies than real-life domestic discipline stories. This seems to happen whenever we get an influx of new readers, many of whom apparently skipped the note on the masthead that says this is a place to “share their thoughts regarding Domestic Discipline and Female Led Relationships. No offense to our friends in the Femdom, BDSM and Master-slave communities, but that's not really what this blog is about.”  I probably need to change that to read “thoughts regarding real Domestic Discipine and Female Led Relationships.” I’m never sure what to do about these stories that are just a little too out there to be true.  Like, the sudden prevalence of claims to have been spanked in a public “family bathroom.”  Could it have happened? Sure.  Do, I think it did for all the men who claim they have been subject to it?  Nope.  Or, do I believe for a second the claim from a commenter a couple of weeks ago that the new prevalence of family bathrooms has resulted in some recognized uptick in public DD spankings? Not for a second.  On the other hand, there are stories that I absolutely believe even if they fall into common spanking fantasy genres like mother-in-law spankings and being spanked in public.  Some people’s DD relationships are obviously more open, out or adventurous than others.  Still, while I may not delete comments I strongly suspect are fantasy, I’m not going to feel obligated to respond to them either as I try to do with other comments.  And, if you are one of the offenders, please take it somewhere else.


Though, speaking of being “out” or “open,” I had a somewhat disturbing event happen this week that involved the prospect of being involuntarily “outed.”  I won’t go into details because they might be too self-revelatory, but suffice it to say it involved a possible computer hack that I was concerned might have exposed some of the stuff I keep around, like my collection of spanking porn and that someone might expose my Domestic Discipline interest and activities.  I went to a bit of a panic that turned out to be unmerited, but it did make me mentally and emotionally confront what I would do it something like that did become public.  What would I do?  How would I handle the situation?  Would it seem life-destroying, or oddly freeing?  Honestly, I think if it involved being outed to colleagues or in a work-related context, I’d just lie and claim the leaker had faked whatever they disclosed in some perverse plan to damage me.  Honestly, in this era of “deep fake” photographs and a President who gets away with lying about paying off porn stars to cover up extramarital affairs and suffers not the slightest consequence even when confronted with the payment checks, lying in the face of incontrovertible evidence seems like a plausible strategy.  Or, I could just own it.  Just say, “Yeah, I like my wife being in charge and taking me to task with her paddle and strap.  What the fuck do you care?”  But, what my little panic incident revealed is that while that might be an option in the future, right now I do not want to deal with the possible consequences.  I do think there could be pretty significant professional consequences, at least for the next few years until retirement.  Though, it did occur to me that such “outing” could be the signal from the universe I’ve been looking for about when it actually is time to get on that glide path into retirement or a career change.  My real trepidation though is around extended family finding out.  I think most of my friends would be fine with it, after a bit of shock.  Our kids would probably roll with it, assuming they don’t know or suspect it already.  But, I really wrestle with the mortification I’d experience over parents and older relatives knowing.  We talked about humiliation a couple of weeks ago, and this week’s event demonstrated to me that while part of me is attracted to being more “out” and to being humbled in certain contexts, there are still hard limits and the timing is not right.

Well, enough of that.  On to this week’s topic. It’s one we’ve done before, but not for at least a couple of years.  That topic is “safewords.”  Here is how an urban dictionary entry describes it: “In BDSM, begging to stop increases pleasure and reality. A safeword is used to actually mean "stop", since screams for stopping aren't sincere. The safeword is usually a normal word, like "pink", "banana", or "door" and is determined before starting play.”


 While safewords may seem like a pretty straightforward topic, it is one that has a lot of layers, including some that always cause controversy among the group.  “Consent,” "consensual non-consent," and true non-consent have been on my mind a lot lately.  I’ve always known that part of what initially attracted me to DD was the prospect of losing control to someone or, more accurately, having all control taken away from me.  When I discovered the Disciplinary Wives Club, the stories that appealed to me the most were those in which the corporal punishment regiment was imposed by the wife, as opposed to initiated at the husband’s request. Similarly, stories where the spanking goes on way past the husband’s self-perceived limits were and are morbidly attractive. Being spanked when I really, truly do not want to be has always been part of the perverse appeal Domestic Discipline has for me.  Same with being taken way past the point of “comfort,” to where it really feels like a harsh punishment for bad behavior.


Safewords are not part of our relationship, and to me they seem inconsistent with my need for disciplinary spankings to be “real.”  With a safeword, I would remain in control, and that is the exact opposite of what I want.  Given that for us spanking is about things like discipline, punishment and payback, giving me the ability to shorten the duration of a spanking or to cause her to back off on the intensity by simply uttering an agreed-upon phrase seems inconsistent with that.  For us, the whole point of DD is putting my butt's fate in her hands, letting her decide when enough is enough, and making sure that some punishments are way more than I want to repeat.  And, yes, while I theoretically could struggle and get up if the spanking was just too much, I never have and, if I did, I would very much want her to solve that in some concrete way like using restraints to hold me in place.  Thus, for us, a safeword is something that seems to make perfect sense in the BDSM and “scening,” context, but is more problematic in the context of our relationship, at least to the extent it can be used to call an end to a spanking just because it is hurting too much, i.e. where there is no medical issue, injury, etc. that demands a stop or some kind of adjustment.

 
Now, that last point is important. I do think there has to be a way to pause or stop a spanking if something is really wrong, like where the recipient is feeling something that just isn’t within the norm of a punishment spanking and indicates a prospect of real injury.  But, we have been married for a quarter century and doing Domestic Discipline for over a decade, so if I felt something was really wrong, I’d just say so.  There is no doubt in my mind that she would pause and, if something was wrong, stop the spanking.  And, I also don’t tend to verbalize a lot during spankings, at least not with words.  I do plenty of grunting, groaning and yelping, but I don’t do things like begging her to stop, which obviously could cause confusion about whether he is just voicing the reality of a hard spanking or, rather, really in distress in a “bad” way. 

 
What do you think?  Yes or no on safe words?  Are there some situations (medical emergency, real injury, etc.) where it is appropriate but others (the spanking just hurts a lot) where it is just trying to avoid the punishment itself and should not be allowed?  If you do use one, care to share what it is?

Have a great week.

80 comments:

  1. Joe2 here,

    I believe in a safe word. Anytime consent is required, consent can be withdrawn. Personally, I think I will only use the safe word for a medical issue. I have a bum joint, that from time to time pinches a nerve. When that happens, the world stops until the issue is resolved. My wife insists that the safe word is also for if the spanking is too hard. Since I have to use the word, there is no conflict.

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    1. Good point -- even if the spanker insists on a safeword, no one forces the spankee to use it.

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  2. The "harder" meme is priceless!

    Sorry.....but no corner time with Rosa...... and though it hasn't happened exactly, I could see Nickki doing something along these lines.

    (sorry to have missed out on last week. It was a topic I could relate to. Peru was great though and I'll probably be posting about it soon.)

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    1. Yeah, honestly, that meme was the inspiration for this topic!

      Feel free to chime in last week's there or in this chain.

      Welcome back. Looking forward to hearing about the vacation

      Delete
  3. I've never used a safe word and never expect to. The two main reasons are - 1. Spanking is not play, no different than it was to be punished by a parent, and 2. I would only be in a discipline relationship with someone I really trust.

    A safe word in an established consensual relationship is for people who may pretend they don't want more, so they need a signal that they are not pretending. Maybe they've really had enough or there's a problem of some kind. I don't pretend, and I never want more. If I say "stop" or anything else, I'm being honest, so I don't need a special word that means the same thing as stop. The question is, why do I want it to stop? If there's a special problem, I'll just say what it is. Like any parent would do, she'll act to do what's best for me at that moment. Without the trust that she will go no farther than a responsible parent would go, and that my safety is her priority, there would be no FLR. The reality is that a spanking may be genuinely unwanted, but isn't that the point? A safe word says this household is not actually led by her, and that she can't be trusted. With no safe word, there is no ambiguity about who is in charge. A safe word won't make two people compatible if they aren't.

    I have nothing against them for other people. Depending on the conditions, a safe word may be the right way to go. I do find it annoying when someone gets on their high horse and proclaims that a safe word is a must for everyone who uses spanking. It is not.

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    1. I've experienced that "high horse" thing on this issue before, mainly from the BDSM crowd. And, yes, it is annoying.

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  4. Joe2 here,

    Dan can you please delete my comment to TFD? It comes off as being harsh and that was not my intent.

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  5. Neither N. (my late first wife), nor J. believed in "safe words", as they both insisted it was their prerogative to decide how sternly -and how long- I needed to be chastised. Some times, however, they might announce how many whacks or lashes they would deliver (and have me count!)... only to add a few dozen if "needed".
    L.

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    1. I don't think "safe words" are needed. L. knows - from experience - that I will only spank or whip him according to what he deserves. Yes, of course, he will yelp (or even call for mercy) while I wallop his derrière, but he knows better than to beg me to stop - and he never fails to kneel at my feet and to kiss my hand while thanking me for having delivered the discipline he knew he needed - and deserved.
      J.

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    2. It's true that I never did (or consider) to ask for a "safe word" because I believe (and accept) that J. -as N before her - knows best (and is entitled) to punish me as she sees fit... and as she feels I deserve -no matter how sternly it may be. And, yes, that means that my backside is bruised and sore so often that I can seldom seat comfortably (or forget that her next "ministration" may occur sooner than I wish!)
      L.

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  6. Hi
    Everyone
    Dave here

    Me and Tracey do not have a safe word
    We are new to her Spanking me

    And are not at the level of FLR yet
    But that has always been my fantasy
    Right now she uses my reactions as her safe word the same as I do when I spank her for play

    I'm having trouble explaining the difference when I try to explain to her
    That though I am sexually excited by spanking it's more before and after that's sexual not the event its self

    I'm trying to go slow with her she does claim to enjoy spanking me

    And I'm blessed in the fact shes willing I've never taken the real discipline that many of you people have

    I've seen many pro Dommes in my life was my only outlet for spanking

    I'm afraid of it but I need it or want it maybe when she give it like I think I want it I will be cured LOL

    I know that's not true I've had this kink as long as I can remember

    I should provoke her but chicken out
    Dave

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  7. Dee Dee likes to joke that she is the one that uses the safe word in our relationship. Our safe word is "I'm done. You can get up now".

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    1. That last sentence is how I most often know mine is over.

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    2. I'm going to assume that pointing out to Dee Dee that 6 words and a contraction are not technically a safeword would be unwise. ;-)

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  8. A compromise would be to have a safe word, but if it is used, the spanking must be redone from scratch by the end of the day. A real incentive to take those last licks.

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    1. Good idea, though only if invoking the safeword wasn't because of an injury or some similar problem that has not been resolved.

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  9. Dev and I don’t use a safe word. We’ve been in this life style 30 yrs and trust is a must or the relationship is a bust. She has a way of knowing when enough is enough and doesn’t exceed things. In my mind I’ve thought several paddling were extreme at the time , but reflecting after it was ok. She says the bruising and soreness after are all part of things and should be expected. She has an issue when I say “ ain’t “. She hates it ! This has been “ discussed “ several times. I said it again yesterday and she had a fit ! She said she would address it once for all today out in the woodshed at 2:00. It’s been a long time since we’ve gone out there. The last time wasn’t fun at all. JR

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    1. I recall you talking about this before. Ain't is one of those words that vary by context. If used unintentionally and as part of your everyday speech then, yeah, it's probably just bad grammar. But, I think it can be used as a more emphatic form of "isn't" and, in that context is perfectly fine. Though, if your wife spanks you for using "ain't," she'd probably take me to the shed for "yeah" in the preceding sentence.

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    2. I agree. I googled it and showed her it was acceptable. Only made matters worse.

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    3. Dictionary correctness really isn't the point as far as she is concerned. My girlfriend used to forbid me to use the term "pissed off" and spanked me for it. I showed her it was used informally even on some TV. She didn't care. If I used the term in her presence, my pants came down.
      Alan

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    4. Started promptly at 2:00. Back in house aprox 2:15.

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    5. I find "pissed off" to be problematic only because "pissed" doesn't mean the same thing across the English speaking world.

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  10. Dan, it seems like in some ways we are similar but in some, different. We don't use safewords but it's because we're constantly communicating during a spanking. Verbally, and of course, non-verbally. If I 'need a second' to catch my breath, I'll say that. I may not get it, and if I do, it may result in more more swats at the end, but I dont' see that as me taking charge or questioning her authority.

    You write:
    "While I theoretically could struggle and get up if the spanking was just too much, I never have."

    I've certainly never walked away in the middle of a spanking, if that's what you mean, but boy will I involuntarily jump out of position sometimes! What I do next is apologize and get right back into position.

    Isn't that part of a couple exploring, and sometimes exceeding, the husband's limits?
    CrimsonKing

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    1. The issue of jumping out of position may depend a lot on what position you are in. I am usually draped over an ottoman, and it would take a lot of effort beyond involuntary jumping to get up from it. And, to be clear, my point about getting up was really to point out that while not staying in place and using a safeword both theoretically undermine the sense of being under someone else's control, I do see them as different. Having a safeword that I know I can use at my own discretion would undermine both the feeling that discipline is being imposed and the underlying concept of DD. Getting up and refusing would be an act of disobedience, pure and simple if I didn't quickly get back into compliance.

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    2. My positions are usually on all fours on the bed, or standing bent over a kitchen counter. The challenge to hold or return to position is a big element in expressing my obedience, and one we'll discuss that during the spanking.
      Some might suggest I simply need more training. There's some truth to that!
      CrimsonKing

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  11. Safe words: I tend to agree with Dan that obsessive focus on having a safe word is a BDSM artifact and not intrinsic to DD or FLR relationships. But couples with health issues or who are just starting out and feeling their way may be more comfortable with a safe word and that's a choice for them to make. There is no one size fits all here. With my former girlfriend who first disciplined me there was no safe word and I don't think we even talked about it. Spanking for her was strictly disciplinary and she insisted from the very beginning there would be NO limits on her authority. That was something she really felt strongly about. If there had been a safe word I fear I would have misused it and missed the experience of being taken beyond my "limits" and positively accept her spankings and the feelings that came from it. My wife who was experienced from an earlier spanking relationship did initially establish a safe word but it was never used and it really is not an issue at this point. If there was a health issue, she would probably realize it before I did and other than that there is no reason to end a punishment until she decides to do so. Subject to the earlier caveats, the problem with a safe word is that it would always be in the back of your mind that you could stop the punishment if you wanted to and that will tend to stop you from letting go and accepting what is happening. It is a cliché but a punishment really does work only when you are at the point you are desperate for it to stop
    Alan

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  12. "Subject to the earlier caveats, the problem with a safe word is that it would always be in the back of your mind that you could stop the punishment if you wanted to and that will tend to stop you from letting go and accepting what is happening." Yes. This is the key for me.

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  13. HI ALL!!! Haven't been around the past few weeks.....had something pop up that buried me.

    OK now am i the only one that is dying of curiosity??? Come on Dan....lol....there has to be more detail you can share w/out outing yourself to US!!! LOL. I think most of us here have had that moment when your heart drops to your feet which in today's world, 9 times out of 10 is computer related. While I wouldn't want to be outed either, and Dan you and I have similar professional life situations, I don't think it would end up being this HUGE life altering deal. I think there would be a ton of embarrassment and some awkwardness initially...maybe some jokes made...or some might even be AGHAST at first but I think it would all fade away pretty quickly. As someone recently commented to me....in the scheme of all the CRAZY SHIT that is going on out there in kink world....in reality all this is TAME. If anything I bet you being outed would end up generating a TON of comments and conversations that we'd never hear, of people talking about it and having questions amongst themselves in private w their significant others.

    I think that fine line here is the difference between a woman who is at times in charge and acting DOMINANT versus a woman who is a DOMME. It's the first "D" of DD that is the core differentiator for me...Domestic....which elicits the sentiment of " around home life....marriage, relationship related......accountability....real life behavior" etc. Which leads me to the safe word aspect. For our purposes here I think it's safe to assume we can remove the potential of "an ABUSER" or ABUSE from the conversation. So as noted in the second pic, and has already been commented on here its PUNISHMENT....the whole idea and what us guys spend so much time talking about is for her to take it that far!!! So the same way a kid doesn't have a safe word to tell Dad "OK i think that should about do it"....nor does the spouse !!!!! Once a couple has gone through the long and hard process i think we all know is part of getting DD or FLR up and running in most relationships, so once they have agreed to introduce discipline into aspects of their life, and the "aspects" will be different for different couples, the principle of "consent to non consent" is basically agreed upon. Hell for us guys it's WANTED. As I commented quickly last week to a post....hey if you are in an agreed upon DD relationship and you do something bad enough that she REALLY lays into your ass and the spanking becomes severe, even far more severe than you want...well...lol...too bad. You likely won't repeat that behavior any time soon. As I keep trying to get my wife to appreciate...it's ONLY A BUTT....IT ALWAYS GETS BETTER. the worst that happens is soreness and bruising. The basis of DD is a loving relationship.....if something were too happen during a spanking where you were actually injured your reaction would be so different and make clear there's a problem and a spanker would naturally stop. Conversely the point of BDSM (when it comes to activities that would require a safeword) is often the pain...so yeah, makes complete sense when going that far the Dom needs to know when enough is enough. As we're all aware there are people out there (pain pigs....lol) that get off on actually being hurt...so there needs to be a way for the participants to know when to stop...or conversely not to in that realm.

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  14. See I find that pain is different from day to day the threshold changes

    I think her seeing the backside she will know when to stop

    My wife being new always stops early
    Dave

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  15. We don't have a safe word either. My wife seems to know when I have had enough and when she has got her point across.

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  16. I tend to agree with Darren. The key difference between BDSM and FLR is the length and depth of the relationship between the people involved. Much of the BDSM world revolves around play between people of relative short acquaintance. In such situations a safeword is mandatory.
    On the other hand, FLR most often occurs between long-term committed couples. People who know each other well including medical issues. In addition, they probably care for each other greatly. For me, the whole flow of FLR is about caring guidance. Thus, punishments should be accepted as an expression of love even if at times more painful than is tolerable. To reject it is to reject your significant other’s love which I hope I never do.

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  17. The whole concept of a safe word is foreign to me. We have never discussed it. The idea is that she is getting her point across with the paddle, and she decides when that has happened. As others have mentioned, I trust her. And if something were really wrong, I would say so and she would stop.
    Our Monday morning paddlings are typically between 20 and 40 hard swats on my clothed bottom. Enough to make an impression, leave a sting for a few hours, and leave a few bruises that fade in a day or two, but never more than I can handle.
    Arthur

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  18. Related question for everyone: would your feelings about safewords be different for a M/f DD arrangement or should a submissive wife just take whatever her husband feels is deserved?

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    1. I'm probably the wrong guy to ask, since I don't think I would be able to dliver a disciplinary spanking of any severity to any woman. That said, no I don't see any difference in principle. Other than many women have thicker bottoms than men, so presumably they could take more than men anyway? ;-)

      I have a feeling I'll hear about that one.

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    2. Hi Dan, I kinda hope your wife reads your comment. Maybe she will have some input!

      -ZM

      Now, For KD's question. I can't speak for all M/f situations, since every relationship is different, so I can only say what might be the case for my wife and I, if she happened to want/need this the way I do. Since I don't get any real excitement about the thought of seriously spanking someone (male or female), I don't think I have to worry about being too sadistic. Having said that, unlike my wife who had never heard about, thought about, or had any desire for DD before she met me, I do understand what a real punishment spanking is supposed to be. I understand what it feels like to both crave it all the time when out of the moment, but not really want it in the moment, as well the desire to lose control, and to be taken beyond where I want to be at the time.

      Having said all that, if she happened to want a real spanking, I expect I would start out about exactly where she did. I would probably not go hard enough, for at least the first many, many, many times, because I would not want to injure her. Also, I would probably struggle with causing much marking, and would probably really have a hard time to keep going if she were in tears. So probably, even with all of my prior knowledge and perspective, I would end up not spanking hard enough or long enough to totally satisfy her need. As we did it over a longer period of time, I expect that I would become more comfortable with causing marks and bruises, and would even begin to really expect tears if the punishment warrants it. In other words, it would be pretty much exactly like it currently is for her and I, just with the roles reversed. She still is not all that comfortable with seeing bruises (though she sometimes is disappointed to see my bottom so quickly recovered), and she is still not comfortable with causing tears, and certainly doesn't expect them on any regular basis, but that is certainly the direction we have been going, so I expect that is about where we will end up.

      Now, with all that, I would say that no, we definitely would not need a safeword. I love her and am always very in tune with what was going on with her (so for example health-related things). If she had a problem, she could simply tell me.

      Ironically, if we were doing spanking for fun, a safeword might well be needed, because she might want to make a big scene of begging me to stop, so would need a way to communicate a real need to stop.

      Either way, I would be a bit scared to do too much M/f without some nicely documented thing (like maybe video, so later it could be shown that she really wants this). Otherwise, it would be WAY to easy to weaponize as "abuse" in the nightmare scenario that sometime we had marital problems.

      -ZM

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    3. My initial thought was there was some sexism inherent in the question. WHY should it be different in regard to a safe word or anything else as long as it is an adult consensual communicating relationship. But ZM nails it with his concerns about abuse ( or abuse allegations). Our culture associates spousal abuse with abuse of a female and most often when abuse occurs that is undoubtedly the reality ( although there is some male abuse reported and likely more that is hidden)So any male in a consensual disciplinary relationship in which he is the disciplinarian needs to be aware of that dimension in M/F relationships.My own wife experienced it in a previous marriage when she was spanked without her consent by her husband.I do wonder whether and how much it happens in an F/M relationship. A wife or girlfriend has enormous power in an F/M relationship once the spanking dynamic is established. There was at least one blog I know of ( now inactive) in which the husband wrote about his wife spanking him against his will.But I don't remember on this blog anyone ever claiming a wife or girlfriend spanked them against their will. So it seems rare
      Alan

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    4. ZM: "Ironically, if we were doing spanking for fun, a safeword might well be needed, because she might want to make a big scene of begging me to stop, so would need a way to communicate a real need to stop." Yes. I think this irony explains exactly why safewords are core to BDSM and may not be relevant to many DD relationships. While safety might come into play for both, in BDSM there is the additional factor that very well may be a "scene," i.e. a game, and games have established rules and boundaries. The safeword is there to make sure that the participants are playing the same game by the same rules.

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    5. Several have mentioned that the husband likely has the physical strength to end a spanking if he decides it is too much. But that is possibly not the case with many women, who generally are not as physically strong as their partners. Thus in some sense a woman submitting to a spanking must have even more trust of her male partner than the other way around. For this reason i would think it may be more common for a woman who is spanked to want or need a safe word.
      Arthur

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    6. What about pain thresholds? No one seems to have mentioned that. Now while I have known women with amazing pain thresholds, and there's always the account of Joan of Arc sticking through a battle with a crossbow bolt in her leg, not to mention childbirth, I also know women for whom a satisfying whack from me was simply too much for their tender tushies. So, in an F/m situation we all here have said that she should spank until she is satisfied. Does that apply to sub women too? If a mild spanking just "doesn't cut it" for a male Top, should his wife endure whatever he feels IS enough to satisfy his annoyance? Or should she be able to safeword out of such a punishment?

      We are a strong gender. We can hit harder than they can. If a FLR wife can say, "too bad, this is a punishment. You need to just shut up and take it" to a sub hubby, should a dominant husband have that same leeway? Hard as he wants, no matter the objection? just like his female DD FLR counterparts among us guys here?

      (And Dan, I could not help but smile at "in principle".)

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    7. I guess I don't see pain thresholds as gender-specific. If anything, I seem to recall reading that women have HIGHER pain thresholds than men, on average.

      Nothing in this follow-up question changes my view -- if both parties stated goal is real punishment then, no, why should the ability to "opt out" be different? I get the sense that you are trying to use the M/f example to cause a reevaluation of whether "opt out" should be an option in F/m. But, no, I do not see a gender-based distinction. Frankly, I doubt most of the women in M/f relationships would either. In the forums I've participated in that were M/f oriented, the women seem to have the EXACT same complaints that many of the men here voice. "He's afraid to hurt me." "He doesn't spank hard enough or long enough." "He isn't strict enough in holding me accountable."

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    8. I don't disagree........completely........LOL, but I am very curious to hear from others, particularly the ladies on this one. We live in a very interesting time where personal choice is overruled by what is deemed politically correct. And I did not say that 'real punishment' should be mitigated if that is a goal, but don't you think there are degrees of 'hard' that can range from punitive to 'too much to handle'? And if someone says "well that is just a matter of good communication", may I say now: what is the difference between saying something is too hard with a safeword, or saying it in a conversation after the fact? Aren't both about bringing the pain factor within an acceptable but still punitive level?

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    9. The fact is that the so-called "personal choice" is actually a consequence of socialization. In the end, being determines consciousness, and not vice versa.

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  19. It has to be sane
    I think no safe word

    Makes it more real in my mind
    Feels so but respect and common sense are important here M/f F/m

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    1. I'm curious. What is your personal experience with the average person and common sense....(or sanity for that matter)......percentage-wise? ;-)

      Reasonable people tend to think everyone else is as reasonable as they are....but if this was true we wouldn't need laws, police, courts, or jails, would we?

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    2. Well I've never had any issues in the spanking world but

      I've not played much as a bottom except with my wife

      And she is sane for the most part lol
      Dave

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  20. Hmmm?? Safe words, in a true DD relationship I guess I fall into the SHE knows best category. I had a former girlfriend who knew caught me in a lie about something (that extra beer)and that was a painful lesson with the paddle, hard fast and no let up punishment. I tried to safe word out and she just paused and said there were no safe words in punishment..."I guess we'll start over" she did and I was over her knee howling like a six year old..I did get sent to the corner as well.

    stevie

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  21. The safest words I ever used were "Thank you Dear"

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    1. Hahahahaha. Spot on! Or "yes, Dear!"

      -ZM

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    2. Very true ! I don't think there is really any need for any sort of safe word between husband and wife who should know each other well enough to recognise when enough is enough.

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    3. Tomy, I have a cartoon with that very theme! LOL

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  22. First, on the topic of family bathroom spankings: We tried it once. I got a bug up my butt that punishing as close to the offense as possible would be more constructive than waiting for a later, more convenient time. I forgot what I did, but I broke a rule while we were shopping at the supermarket. My wife gave me her "look" and we went to the family bathroom. She spanked me there. It was unpleasant for both of us. It was a little smelly and the noise of her hairbrush echoed in the bathroom. We both felt embarrassed and realized that it was absolutely the wrong idea.

    In Terms of Safeword's, we did set two up: "Yellow" let's my wife no that it is becoming unbearable. She has the option of backing off or ignoring the safeword. "Red" is the standard stop right now, emergency safeword. I never used it but we've established it for obvious reasons.

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    1. Thanks, CagedLion. I wonder how most DD wives would react to Yellow?

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  23. I have been keeping up each week with the post and many of the comments but I haven't had much to add in until today. Unlike many of the weeks that I have had something to say and not been able to get there I actually can. Thanks Dan for keeping it all going and thanks to all who comment.

    My Wife and I do have a safe word. It was established in the very beginning years ago and was never used until about six months ago. I have not used it since then. Six months ago because of circumstances I won't go into at this point my wife gave me the worse spanking I have ever had. She spent at least thirty minutes spanking me with her had and a light weight paddle (ping pongish) while across her lap. After a little while she then had me bent over the edge of the bed and spanked me with a thick leather belt. Between the previous spanking, the thickness and weight of the belt, and the continual swinging of the belt it was more than I could handle. What I could not handle was staying in position; I was twisting and scooting forward and back. Because of that there were some swats that hit untargeted areas. I felt out of control and because of my own actions it was becoming unsafe. We discussed why I used the safe word, was given a moment to calm myself then she continued the punishment but instead of the continual swing of the belt she gave me a second to control myself. The punishment was deserved but not at the cost of injury (besides the expected injury of pride, butt pain and bruising).

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    1. Hitting "untargeted areas" has not lead to us stopping a spanking, but I am not shy about letting her know if she is hitting too high or doing something that involves striking too close to my tailbone.

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    2. My wife is very careful when spanking me. One of the reasons she mostly uses a paddle or hairbrush over her knee is because she can control the targeted location better. On the rare occasion where she used a razor strap she did come close to an area she should stay away from.

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  24. Sorry I meant to sign,

    Luvinhub

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  25. Alan wrote:
    >Safe words: I tend to agree with Dan that obsessive focus on having a safe word is a BDSM artifact and not intrinsic to DD or FLR relationships. But couples with health issues or who are just starting out and feeling their way may be more comfortable with a safe word and that's a choice for them to make

    This has been another interesting conversation with a variety of perspectives. I personally closely agree with Alan's statement above. Safewords are important in BDSM roleplay - where the spankee might beg the spanker to stop as part of the role play but doesn't really want them to - unless they really do - at which point they can then employ the safeword. This obviously doesn't really fit well in true DD - except for true emergencies. And even then, as Dan stated for example, a couple still might not feel it is necessary because they know each other so well. Still, in true domestic discipline a husband might earnestly be pleading for his wife to "stop" - and mean it - but the true disciplinary wife may feel that he needs still more whacks to make to make her point and keep on whacking anyway. So, if he really needs her to *stop* because of chest pains or such, then in some cases an emergency safeword might not be a bad idea.

    I do get the point about "in the back of the husband's mind, he can safeword out" - but, really, most husbands could force their way out of the spanking if they were so compelled, even from an awkward position. So, safeword or not, I think that almost every husband must realize that he can always option out one way or the other - if he truly needs to. I think that perhaps the willingness to stay in position and take a truly painful spanking despite the fact that he can option out (physically or safeword) can add to the disciplinary experience. Having said that, however, as I have discussed before (with Alan, in particular, iirc), one does seem to reach the point as a disciplined husband when it becomes psychologically very difficult to opt of a spanking that your wife has decided to administer.

    So, although it is obviously a matter for each couple to decide, having a safe word for emergency use only does not mean that the couple does not have a true disciplinary relationship. My wife and I set up an emergency only safeword when we first adopted this lifestyle many years ago - but I have never used it. Just a few thoughts. --al

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    1. Thanks, al. I can go back and forth on whether staying in place despite the physical ability to "option out" adds to the experience. Something I have never gotten to is a point of real "surrender," where I just stop trying to "take it like a man." That's particularly true if she striking very hard with a paddle that she seems to like and that I don't. I never really give in. Instead, I hit some resistant mental spot where I am determined NOT to give in. I wonder whether my attitude would be more compliant if I knew I really had no choice, i.e. that I was restrained in some way that meant I could NOT opt out no matter what.

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    2. Hi Dan
      You have mentioned this before and the surrendering issue is one that seems to work differently for almost everyone.It could be that she is spanking too hard and fast from the beginning which can be overwhelming and put the spankee into a defensive crouch which is all antithetical to "letting go". Slower warm up and longer spankings can counteract that. I once read on the net a women's testimony that she could bring a male to tears just with her hand and scolding if he spent 45 minutes or longer over her lap. No way to know if this is true but it does reinforce the notion that long leisurely spankings can get results. From my personal experience I know that encouragement and reassurance from my wife disciplinarian to cry or express my feelings really works to reduce the male macho attitude.Crying during a serious spanking is a pretty natural thing and many women do it easily.If a man doesn't it could be because he fears his wife thinking him a wimp or becoming upset with him -and maybe some disciplinary wives need to think about their own attitude toward surrendering and what they might be doing to discourage it.Another factor and I allude to Al's point above that "it becomes psychologically very difficult to opt of a spanking that your wife has decided to administer". You may not realize how little ability you have to stop a punishment if she is serious about administering it.I learned this a long time ago early in my relationship with my former girlfriend.At least during two severe spankings I got up and tried to move out of the room only to have her grab my arm and INSIST I resume my position which I did and she went on to deliver a much harder spanking than she had planned.One left me with visible bruises for into the second week. I am eternally grateful to her for teaching me just how little I could resist her discipline and that helped me enormously to let go in future spankings right up to today.
      Alan

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    3. Hi Alan. This discussion highlights that "opting out" could have at least three different connotations. First, it could involve this week's topic -- safewords, or some other express measure to stop a spanking. Second, it could be physical resistance or avoidance. Third, it could be that the spanking goes forward, but the recipient has sort of psychologically "opted out" by refusing to emotionally surrender. So, his bottom is still getting blistered by he goes into "man up" mode and resists anything that suggests he is giving in. Kind of the classic school boy spanking scene as in, for example, The Dead Poets Society. The spanking or caning takes place, but the recipient makes it clear he is just going to take it without really surrendering or acknowledging authority.

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    4. I think we men can just take it and "man up" and still be surrendering to and acknowledging our wife's authority. I often think to myself, "you have the right to paddle me and you are right to be paddling me this moment, but after this I have to go to work with no inkling of what just happened, so I am taking this one like a man." And she is fine with that! In fact sometimes she will smooth my trousers with her hand before applying the paddle and say with a laugh, "We don't want any unusual creases across your bum!"
      Arthur

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    5. Hi Arthur,
      I am enjoying your contributions and agree that we surrender to her authority when we submit to a spanking she orders. But we submit to her authority every-time we obey an order from her, accede to her rules and in general submit to her dominion however she expresses it. But to me that is different than "manning up" during a spanking and struggling through it rather than surrendering to it, acknowledging at least to yourself why it is happening and deserved and most important of all letting our deeper feelings emerge as we become desperate for it to end.I actually believe in "manning u" in many if not most situations at work and during family problems and travail. Manning up has its place if you are an alpha male and that is part of your natural personality. But the time to drop it is when you are over her knee or bent over bed or sofa. Then , to experience real remorse as well as catharsis ,it is necessary to surrender to her, drop your defenses and let those feelings flow.
      Alan

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    6. Ok, you are defining it in a much broader sense than just getting through it without much reaction, which was how I was seeing it. I can withhold reaction because I am heading to work and still get the humility that she is imparting. "I need to be and will be humble this week" is not in conflict with "I don't want to show up to work with a flushed face rubbing my bottom."
      Maybe that is not full catharsis but it is mostly how I do it.
      Arthur

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    7. Alan, You said it so well. I know exactly what you're talking about. Most of the time I am fully submissive to my wife and obey her orders. Sometimes I might be a little resistant but when she has me over her knee it's like I can't resist anymore. That is also the time when she can bring me to tears because I know I disappointed her and I have this spanking coming.

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    8. Dan,
      Yes! That position (OTK)seems to bring out the little boy, obedience and remorse faster than any other. The nearest rival for me is to be hand spanked and scolded in the corner either before, between or after a more traditional spanking. She has brought me to tears with just her hand while standing in the corner and being scolded. I have never really understood why it is so powerful but it just puts me in a obedient accepting zone that is almost paralyzing.I have never resisted when it is happening and doubt if I could resist.An anger inspired crack or two across my pants in the kitchen or family room can bring on the same feelings even without being bared.Maybe its about a women aggressively taking control of your bottom but it works.
      Alan

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  26. My personal belief is that a "safe word" has NO place in Domestic Discipline. After all it IS discipline.

    I also believe that just saying what's wrong is best (EX:I feel like throwing up or I have a leg cramp)

    Safe words are great, especially in the BDSM sense, where it's play, but you'd be surprised to find out how rare it is to hear one in a dungeon setting.

    So, in my DD relationship with Shilo, NO safe word. In a dungeon with others, yes.

    Now I'm starting to miss spanking Shilo.😢

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    1. I just wanted to add that there's no "One twue way" So what works for me and mine might not work for you and yours.♥️

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    2. Hi Merry. Good distinctions. Maybe you need a surrogate spankee? ;-)

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    3. Are you offering?
      ::giggles::
      @Dan:

      Actually, I gave a good paddling to a partner about 2 weeks ago, but there's no real substitution for Shilo.



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    4. I knew I was walking right into that one. :-)

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  27. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  28. Hi Dan,
    I probably already kind of answered your questions for this week (at least indirectly) in my response to KD's question, but here it is more directly.

    No, we do not use any sort of safe-words, though I am not against using them if they make someone more comfortable, of course. For us, I don't really see the need for safe-words, for a number of reasons.

    First off, I trust her completely. I probably could add "and I wouldn't do this with someone I didn't fully trust," but I recognize that many people are in different situations where they either play with or get real discipline from someone that they are not quite as close to as I am my wife. Anyway, if I were one of those who was being spanked by someone that I didn't know as well and that didn't love me as much, I would be pretty inclined to have a safe-word! As it is, she knows me, she loves me, she cares about me, and she is very attentive to me during the process.

    Secondly, I want the punishments to feel as "imposed" as possible. While our DD relationship is entirely consensual in that I could end that aspect of our relationship at any time with no harm to the overall relationship, I do NOT want to feel like any individual punishment is particularly consensual and so generally I have no say in how hard or long a punishment is.

    Thirdly, if there were any problems, I would simply say that there was a problem and what it was. Normally it will be something simple like a nosebleed (which sometimes happens during the change of seasons), or maybe it feels like she is hitting too high or possibly allowing a cane tip to wrap around. In any case, I would mention it, and she would immediately address the issue, whatever it might be.

    And finally, quite frankly, she generally still tends to go a bit on the easier side and stop too early, so even if we had a safe-word, it would remain unused, at least at this time.

    -ZM

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    1. What a thorough and sensible response. It pretty much says it all, while being both personal and yet open enough to extend to others.

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  29. Jack, Was it effective in curbing that activity?

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  30. We have safewords from our early days at this, but he rarely uses them. it's a graduated series. Like other people have commented, I decide how severe the discipline's going to be. Husband understands that, so he doesn't safeword out, even when I'm applying very severe discipline to his bare bottom. A safeword usually comes out when I mention something he has a hard limit against. I'll show him a picture of Kali's teeth and out comes the "dead stop" safeword

    It's interesting that you put up the drawing of the husband pleasuring himself in lingerie. I require husband to be dressed for any type of discipline and also for supervised masturbation. Sometimes, I'll require supervised masturbation as part of a disciplinary session. Of course, he must ask permission to climax, which I almost never grant. Of course, he always climaxes, since if he stops the strokes, a few swats to the behind with a leather paddle gets him "moving", again. This results in him getting a tawsing in addition to other physical discipline I've decided on. I've taken pictures of him doing this, too, like the lady in the drawing.

    I also like the leg lock-arm lock OTK photo. I almost always put him in an arm lock when he's across my lap. For some reason, he thinks it's extra humiliating. After I pull down his panties and tap my lap with the implement and he gets across my lap, I always tell him to give me his arm. This always brings some begging. I just raise my voice and say "I SAID GIVE MY YOUR ARM!". He does and I pull it up behind his back. Sometimes he'll complain it's uncomfortable when I pull a little more than usual, but, I like to remind him that spankings are SUPPOSED to be "uncomfortable". I don't always use the leg lock, but I do it when it suits me.

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