Learn to obey before you command. - Solon
Hi all. I hope you had a good week. I kept reading that this year's flu bug was especially virulent, and now I can attest to it personally. The first few days, it hurt just to walk. Thankfully, I have a pretty well-equipped man cave in the basement. So, I spent the better part of two full work weeks hanging out on my couch with a laptop to keep up with work while binge watching on Netflix. But, it's now over -- just in time for a three-day weekend!
A few weeks ago my post was entitled Boys & Men and addressed the extent to which a disciplinary spanking takes us back to feeling like a little boy and whether there is a maternal aspect to the Domestic Discipline relationship. One commenter brought up the fact that while he had not been spanked often as a boy, his disciplinary wife had grown up in a strict, spanking home.
We've talked quite a bit about how our own early disciplinary experiences may influence our interest in being disciplined as an adult. But, we haven't talked that much about how our Disciplinary Wives' experiences with discipline as a child may have influenced their openness to doling out discipline as adults.
I'm not really sure where my own wife is on this. I think it is a factor that cuts both ways. From what she has told me, she was the "good girl" in the family and seldom was spanked herself. But, she did witness her trouble-maker siblings getting spanked regularly. I suspect this made her at least somewhat more open to using spanking for discipline on me than she might have been had she come from a non-spanking family.
On the other hand, I think the overall dynamic in her home probably made it harder to grow into the Disciplinary Wife mode. Her parents had a very 1950-ish dynamic, with her father working and doing whatever the hell he wanted outside work, while her mom stayed home and took care of the kids and had basically zero authority in the relationship. When they got into arguments she pouted and denied sex and engaged in all the typical passive-aggressive behavior that disempowered spouses may be prone to because they lack a more direct means of control. Growing up in that dynamic probably reinforced her early tendency to flounce and pout instead of taking control and using her voice. Though, she also has witnessed personally the very big downsides of that approach. So, I think the dynamic she grew up in set an example, but it was a negative one that she wants to get beyond.
It also probably has been harder to step into the role of a strong Disciplinary Wife without a strong female role model. It's one reason that I am not as averse as she is to our kids knowing about our dynamic. I actually think it would be good for them to see a strong female in charge and in control.
How about your disciplinarian? Was he or she spanked growing up? Do you think the disciplinary environment they grew up in made them more, or less, open to being a disciplinarian as an adult?
Have great week.
Dan
Hi all. I hope you had a good week. I kept reading that this year's flu bug was especially virulent, and now I can attest to it personally. The first few days, it hurt just to walk. Thankfully, I have a pretty well-equipped man cave in the basement. So, I spent the better part of two full work weeks hanging out on my couch with a laptop to keep up with work while binge watching on Netflix. But, it's now over -- just in time for a three-day weekend!
A few weeks ago my post was entitled Boys & Men and addressed the extent to which a disciplinary spanking takes us back to feeling like a little boy and whether there is a maternal aspect to the Domestic Discipline relationship. One commenter brought up the fact that while he had not been spanked often as a boy, his disciplinary wife had grown up in a strict, spanking home.
I'm not really sure where my own wife is on this. I think it is a factor that cuts both ways. From what she has told me, she was the "good girl" in the family and seldom was spanked herself. But, she did witness her trouble-maker siblings getting spanked regularly. I suspect this made her at least somewhat more open to using spanking for discipline on me than she might have been had she come from a non-spanking family.
On the other hand, I think the overall dynamic in her home probably made it harder to grow into the Disciplinary Wife mode. Her parents had a very 1950-ish dynamic, with her father working and doing whatever the hell he wanted outside work, while her mom stayed home and took care of the kids and had basically zero authority in the relationship. When they got into arguments she pouted and denied sex and engaged in all the typical passive-aggressive behavior that disempowered spouses may be prone to because they lack a more direct means of control. Growing up in that dynamic probably reinforced her early tendency to flounce and pout instead of taking control and using her voice. Though, she also has witnessed personally the very big downsides of that approach. So, I think the dynamic she grew up in set an example, but it was a negative one that she wants to get beyond.
It also probably has been harder to step into the role of a strong Disciplinary Wife without a strong female role model. It's one reason that I am not as averse as she is to our kids knowing about our dynamic. I actually think it would be good for them to see a strong female in charge and in control.
How about your disciplinarian? Was he or she spanked growing up? Do you think the disciplinary environment they grew up in made them more, or less, open to being a disciplinarian as an adult?
Have great week.
Dan
In Rosa's case, it was not the 'disciplinary environment' she grew up in but a 'macho man' patriarchal culture fraught with incompetent or absent 'patriarchs'....who still expected to be regarded as the boss despite having done nothing to earn that respect. She grew up around strong women and with the exception of her one Grandfather, pretty lousy male role models.
ReplyDeleteThis pattern continued when she came here......until she met me. In me she found the complete opposite: a guy outside of the Hispanic/Macho culture, trying hard to be the best partner/father/boss/friend he could be while recognizing certain personality traits that thwarted complete success, and as a result not expecting automatic deference just because of gender. Add to this my desire for someone with the confidence to help me with my faults in a loving disciplinary context, and given her own lifelong inclinations, she just easily and naturally took to the role.
My wife's experience was similar with respect to weak male role models, though I don't think it was offset by a strong female presence.
DeleteI've wondered sometimes whether my own desires for a "strong hand" extend from early exposure to weak leadership and inconsistent authority. As you say, people whose position or title put them in a position of authority that they didn't know how to exercise and didn't earn. I think one reason I can be very difficult at work is that most people want power but don't know what to do with it once they get it, and my reaction to that is contempt. My anti-authoritarian streak is really about wanting someone strong enough to exercise real power and authority, though I've yet to really find one.
My wife was a military brat. Dad was always gone and her mother ran the household. I have never asked if she was spanked and she has never volunteered. But she is a straight arrow. From what I have learned from her and her parents, she was born “old;” serious, focused and a very clear sense of what is right. Our marriage is proof that opposites attract.
ReplyDeleteAs I wrote in my first in my first post, asking to be spanked almost destroyed our marriage. Because my wife has a very clear sense of what is proper, asking to be spanked was a clear signal that I was a pervert. When I asked to be spanked, she recoiled and immediately “knew” that our marriage was broken.
It required a direct intervention of her parents to keep us from getting divorced. I am not very close to my parents, so we have never brought our problems to them. However, she is close to her parents and I really like them. She brought our issue to them. To her amazement (and mine), they did not recoil. In fact, just the opposite. Her father told her, in front of her mother, that he had done things that would make her skin crawl (He was in combat more than once.) and he had a strong marriage. To her parents, asking to be spanked was a small issue. I’m not a drunk, I don’t gamble, I work hard, make good money, I love my wife and I try to be a good father and husband. Therefore, she needed to consider herself to be very lucky and appreciate what she had.
I am the not in a FLR. I get spanked to uncoil the stress in my professional life. My job is very stressful, so I get spanked at least twice a month and sometimes three times a week.
The only reason that she continues to spank me is because it works. I get wrapped up in the stress of my professional life to a degree that it impacts my every thought. A spanking uncoils that stress and I am re-centered. My spankings aren’t 20 hits and we are done. They are all hard and long. And they need to be to work. But the benefits are more than worth every strike.
Joe2
Thanks, Joe2. It sounds like you got very lucky in your "choice" of in-laws. I honestly don't know how my parents or in-laws would react. My parents are a lot more mature now than when I was growing up, and I suspect they would think it was more than a little weird but ultimately would accept it then never refer to it again. Though, my dad is Alpha to the core . . . My in-laws are so traditional and conventional, I doubt they would even be capable of understanding it. Not that I would care.
DeleteJoe2's relationship description was an uplifting read. To me it's story that shows generosity, understanding and acceptance. Those are things we need more of everywhere.
DeleteMy loving wife was never punished as a child. She was aware of her father strictly disciplining her brothers, however. I always wanted her to playfully but really spank me. When a buddy at work confided in me that his wife spanked him when he "misbehaved", my pursuit of spanking became more heated. After a long period of hesitation, I made her a paddle and got her to agree to spank me. She was surprisingly effective at it, and she actually came to enjoy my trips "to the woodshed". Now I get regular doses of punishment, starting with hand spanking and then followed by some good licks with her hairbrush. I usually get spanked for my arrogance, which is a fault I readily admit to.
ReplyDeleteThanks
Thanks.
DeleteAlthough I was never spanked at home ,I was caned and slippered Ltd of times at school.
ReplyDeleteAt family gatherings her brothers and sisters all got the strap from her Dad and always tease her why she didn't.
I think she harboured some guilt about that and she spent s lot of time over my knee making up for lost time.
As a schoolteacher and Mother I believe it was fairly easy for her to assume a disciplinary role with me as the tables turned (or balanced depending on how you look at it)
I do wonder if teachers would have an easier time making the jump to adult discipline. Probably less so now than in the past when school spankings were more prevalent.
DeleteThey are still trained to be strict and enforce the rules using other methods which I'd a useful trait to apply at home.
DeleteGood point.
DeleteWe were friendly with a DWC couple and the wife was a former teacher from the South whose classroom experience included having a paddle hanging right in the classroom and she used it.
DeleteI know nothing about her "transition to adult spanking" But she was pretty darn uninhibited about dealing out thorough discipline on the adult level.
Yes, I'm sure few people out there have as much experience swinging a paddle as a former Southern school teacher!
DeleteI have to admit, the depressing number of school shootings and just the sheer amount of escalating violence and lack of personal discipline in every facet of society makes me wonder whether those Southern teachers had it right.
I understand that. Yet I am stuck with the opinion that there is no particular right way to raise kids - including whether physical punishment is beneficial or not. Probably depends on I know not what.
DeleteBut I am pretty sure that to be a successful parent one must transfer good values, and self-discipline. Or at least try to do so with forethought and intention. Yea. I can hardly believe that the country is getting used to school shootings among other things that seem to be getting "normalized" (like the weird cultural narcissism I see everywhere.)
Agreed on how unbelievable it is that things like mass shootings can become "normalized." I grew up in a fairly dangerous area, and while getting shot was not completely out of the realm of possibilities, it would have been the result of something individualized like a fight that got out of hand. I can't imagine going to school worrying about getting shot by a classmate who just felt like killing a bunch of people. And, I am convinced that some of it is the video game culture. There has always been easy access to guns in this country, yet mass killings with people shooting up schools or office buildings. I'm not arguing against more gun control, but there are clearly other forces at work beyond easy access to weapons.
DeleteI also agree that there probably isn't any "right" way to raise kids. And, as a parent I've come to the conclusion that so much of who they turn out to be is hard-wired into their temperament from birth. We raised our kids in virtually identical environments, they went to the exact same schools, and yet they are incredibly different people and always have been. Also, I have personally known people who are fantastic human beings who grew up in really challenging circumstances, and I've known others who were born with every advantage and are just terrible human beings.
"I've come to the conclusion that so much of who they turn out to be is hard-wired into their temperament from birth". I'm 100% with you on this. I have extensive professional experience in this area.
DeleteIt's a huge concept as far as helping people be more accepting of individual differences, preferences, and worldviews.
Dan
ReplyDeleteI grew up with parents that did not punish. Peter was an only child and went off to boarding school and summer camp where the only discipline he received were the canings at school. When we married we were both forging careers. When the boys arrived I stopped working and Peter continued to live as if there were
no children. Our marriage was a mess we went to counseling and it was there it came out then Peter had gone to a more than a few times to a professional woman who caned his ass. I went to her she assured me that there was no sex, and then showed me how to use a paddle , a cane and a few other things.
I was amazed at how easily I fell into using discipline to bring sanity to our lives. I adore Peter and we have worked our way to a life that works for us and gives me a loving husband and the boys have a father who actually shows up at their soccer games.
Hi Anna,
DeleteFrom the few responses so far, it sounds like any hypothesis I had that being spanked as a child would make a woman more likely to become a disciplinarian as an adult is questionable at best. But, your experience is a lot like my wife's in terms of the ease with which you fell into using discipline once presented with the idea. My wife has had a harder time making the move to a real FLR-oriented approach, but she had remarkably little problem using a paddle on me and using it hard from the very start.
My wife was used to the males being spanked at home growing up.
ReplyDeleteThanks.
DeleteNeither N. (my late first wife), nor J. were spanked at home, as far as I know, but spanking was such a common practice when we were growing up (in France) that it was considered "natural" - as was the availability of martinets in dry-goods stores. After I spanked N. a couple of times after we first met, she insisted on "equal time"... and, before long, this became her exclusive prerogative - and I learned to accept it - and like it (sort of...) And J., who knew (and had often watched) how N. dealt with my breaches of discipline, simply proceeded to follow with the same methods - and with some additional 'tools' of her own choosing...
ReplyDeleteL.
I would be very interested in knowing more about the extent to which spanking is practiced outside the US, the UK and Europe. Looking at my Blogger stats, the US and UK account for the lions share of the traffic to this blog, followed by Russia and the Ukraine, then Germany, Canada, France and Australia. Interestingly, India and Pakistan also make the current list. But, I also wonder about the accuracy of these stats given that many people may be using VPNs or other services that redirect traffic through multiple servers in multiple countries.
DeleteI doubt that a comparative survey has ever been carried out, but I guess different methods (and different tools) may be used in different countries... The martinet is probably used mostly in France (and adjacent French-speaking countries) while the cane or the crop may be -at least in my experience - more commonly used in the UK, and birches of some sort in Scandinavia... Straps are used (I can testify!) in several countries... but especially in Spain, whereas slippering seems to be a favorite in Portugal...
DeleteMaybe my message in the previous topic inspired the discussion of this week's topic.
ReplyDeleteI was little disciplined as a child. But with my wife the situation was reversed. Their parents were strict.
My wife currently disciplines me with the same techniques she was disciplined as she grew up.
reading the previous messages, I believe my wife is an exessor. Most wives learned to discipline during the marriage.
Well
Hello, Well. Yes, it was your comment that inspired this week;s topic.
DeleteBeing female, I was used to being punished with non-physical methods, such as grounding, chores etc, as were my sisters. Our brothers were punished by spankings and that was normally the end of the matter. Our father ruled the home, though he was spanked by our mother when he pushed her too far, though I didn't learn this till later in life. It helped show me that this was the best way to have domestic bliss: - spank my husband till I believe the matter has been dealt with and then leave the matter alone.
ReplyDeleteHello Anonymous. If I may ask, how did you learn that your mother spanked your father?
DeleteWe were all told between reaching the age of majority and getting married. It was something my mother was happy to tell us, but only when we reached the right age. My mother wanted to normalise the practice, but decided that the best way of normalising it was to tell us openly at some point when we got to the right age. As a result, I was happy to continue the practice when I married my own husband.
DeleteGot it. Thanks for participating.
DeleteDan, have you chosen not to publish my postings
ReplyDeleteBart, I haven't seen any postings from you. None are in my spam box, and there are no posts in my "awaiting moderation" queue? What have you tried to post and when?
Delete