Lord give me chastity, but not yet. -- St. Augustine
Hello all. Welcome back to The Forum. Our weekly gathering of men and women who are in, or interested in being in, Domestic Discipline or Female Led Relationships. I hope you had a good week.
Mine kind of sucked. Work in my industry tends to come in waves, with big projects coming and going. This week started neck deep in a huge project, then it suddenly went away. I think many around me felt a sense of relief at the slackening of the frenetic pace, but I always go the opposite direction, feeling antsy and nervous and wondering when the next new big piece of work will come in. I also ended up with a nasty stomach bug that I'm only now beginning to recover from. And, to top it all off, in the course of doing some business socializing to try to scare up a new project, I left a new laptop somewhere I shouldn't and someone walked off with it. The timing was perfect, since last week's topic on being spanked for chores, sloppiness, carelessness, etc. was still garnering responses. It was a mistake, but one that left me really irritated with myself, because I have a habit of walking off and leaving things, very often my credit card, fairly often my coat, and everyone once in awhile my phone or laptop.
Nine times out of ten, I get them back. This time I didn't. It's not the end of the world, but it was a fairly expensive loss that resulted from my own carelessness, pure and simple. At such times, I am reminded of the (admittedly totally sexist) wisdom passed from Don Corleone to his son in The Godfather: "I spent my whole life trying not to be careless. Women and children can be careless. But not men." The implication is that carelessness has consequences and that it is something that can be avoided with effort. With that in mind, I did tell my wife that I hoped she would wear my ass out for this particular piece of carelessness. And, since most most of the comments last week focused on the chores aspect of the topic, let's keep it open this week to further comments regarding being spanked for careless, forgetfulness, etc.
Another reason for leaving the carelessness topic open for another week is my writer's block continues. I just can't think of a damn thing that really interests me regarding DD and FLR right now. That happens sometimes. And, this dryspell really does seem to be tied to this one aspect of my life. In others, my mind is fairly active. I've been reading a lot, with my usual omnivorous lack of focus. I've been reading a book on Tantric philosophy (the real stuff, not the Western sexual crap that has little or nothing to do with historical Tantra), a historical biography (Ulysses S. Grant), some religious history stuff, and a self-help book on habit formation. I just can't think of a damn thing I'm really interested in regarding DD right now.
In fact, I seem to be having some senior moments where the whole topic is concerned. At first, I thought that maybe I would get out of coming up with something that interested me, by instead of focusing on something that seems to interest many others but does not do anything for me, namely chastity. Hence the quote at the top of the page. Then, I did a quick word search on the titles of previous posts and realized I did that one less than six months ago. How time flies.
So, what to talk about? One that has been on my mind a little bit recently is "punishment" vs. "discipline" in the context of a DD relationship. One reason this has been on my mind is some of my own recent DD experiences, including the "multiples" I received for drinking too much and then driving home. My wife and I generally communicate a lot about our DD and FLR lifestyle, or at least I communicate in the form of my journal and she generally takes it in and sometimes lets me know what she is thinking or adjusts if I say something just isn't working. It was in that vein that I told her after one of our sessions that if part of the goal was to bring about real "surrender" on my part, she might consider doing more of a warmup, and using someone more forgiving tools, as the combination of no warmup swats and using really tough instruments was leading me to "man up," in a way that made it impossible to just give in and let go. Yet, she didn't change at all. She still goes right at it, full force, every time. After several attempts to raise this as an issue, it is clear that she has decided in this instance that she is going to keep keep doing it the way she wants. While she hasn't let me in on her thinking yet, I suspect it reflects a desire on her part to really punish me for bad behavior, i.e. to make it hurt very badly from start to finish, and she just doesn't care that much whether I "surrender" to it or not.
When I step back and look at the situation objectively, what she is going makes some sense in the overall context of a DD relationship, though it also probably runs counter to what many men say they are looking for. Many of us seem to want that cathartic experience in which a spanking becomes too much, or in which the remorse is so powerful, that we just let it all go. And, while we may dress it up as a show of submission and respect that we would surrender in that way to her authority, it also is undeniably something that we want for its impact on our own ego, psyche, etc. I think that what she is saying with refusing to get on board with my suggestions in this area is that when I really deserve to be punished, that is what it is about. Something that meets my goals in that instance isn't at all what she cares about. Quite the opposite. If I have a desire to cry or experience some kind of catharsis from a spanking, cooperating with that is really fulfilling my desires and giving me something I want, which really runs counter to what the punishment is supposed to accomplish. I want it to serve some purpose in helping me surrender and let go of my resistance. She just wants it to hurt badly enough and long enough that I don't engage in the bad behavior again for a good long while.
Are punishment and discipline separate and distinguishable, and do they entail different kinds of "corrections"? Is their goal the same? Or, is it a matter of whose perspective we are looking at it from? She might be looking to instill more discipline in me or cause me to feel remorse, but she also may see some personal value to her in punishment as pure "giving me what I have coming."
I hope you all have a great weekend.
Hello all. Welcome back to The Forum. Our weekly gathering of men and women who are in, or interested in being in, Domestic Discipline or Female Led Relationships. I hope you had a good week.
Mine kind of sucked. Work in my industry tends to come in waves, with big projects coming and going. This week started neck deep in a huge project, then it suddenly went away. I think many around me felt a sense of relief at the slackening of the frenetic pace, but I always go the opposite direction, feeling antsy and nervous and wondering when the next new big piece of work will come in. I also ended up with a nasty stomach bug that I'm only now beginning to recover from. And, to top it all off, in the course of doing some business socializing to try to scare up a new project, I left a new laptop somewhere I shouldn't and someone walked off with it. The timing was perfect, since last week's topic on being spanked for chores, sloppiness, carelessness, etc. was still garnering responses. It was a mistake, but one that left me really irritated with myself, because I have a habit of walking off and leaving things, very often my credit card, fairly often my coat, and everyone once in awhile my phone or laptop.
Another reason for leaving the carelessness topic open for another week is my writer's block continues. I just can't think of a damn thing that really interests me regarding DD and FLR right now. That happens sometimes. And, this dryspell really does seem to be tied to this one aspect of my life. In others, my mind is fairly active. I've been reading a lot, with my usual omnivorous lack of focus. I've been reading a book on Tantric philosophy (the real stuff, not the Western sexual crap that has little or nothing to do with historical Tantra), a historical biography (Ulysses S. Grant), some religious history stuff, and a self-help book on habit formation. I just can't think of a damn thing I'm really interested in regarding DD right now.
In fact, I seem to be having some senior moments where the whole topic is concerned. At first, I thought that maybe I would get out of coming up with something that interested me, by instead of focusing on something that seems to interest many others but does not do anything for me, namely chastity. Hence the quote at the top of the page. Then, I did a quick word search on the titles of previous posts and realized I did that one less than six months ago. How time flies.
So, what to talk about? One that has been on my mind a little bit recently is "punishment" vs. "discipline" in the context of a DD relationship. One reason this has been on my mind is some of my own recent DD experiences, including the "multiples" I received for drinking too much and then driving home. My wife and I generally communicate a lot about our DD and FLR lifestyle, or at least I communicate in the form of my journal and she generally takes it in and sometimes lets me know what she is thinking or adjusts if I say something just isn't working. It was in that vein that I told her after one of our sessions that if part of the goal was to bring about real "surrender" on my part, she might consider doing more of a warmup, and using someone more forgiving tools, as the combination of no warmup swats and using really tough instruments was leading me to "man up," in a way that made it impossible to just give in and let go. Yet, she didn't change at all. She still goes right at it, full force, every time. After several attempts to raise this as an issue, it is clear that she has decided in this instance that she is going to keep keep doing it the way she wants. While she hasn't let me in on her thinking yet, I suspect it reflects a desire on her part to really punish me for bad behavior, i.e. to make it hurt very badly from start to finish, and she just doesn't care that much whether I "surrender" to it or not.
When I step back and look at the situation objectively, what she is going makes some sense in the overall context of a DD relationship, though it also probably runs counter to what many men say they are looking for. Many of us seem to want that cathartic experience in which a spanking becomes too much, or in which the remorse is so powerful, that we just let it all go. And, while we may dress it up as a show of submission and respect that we would surrender in that way to her authority, it also is undeniably something that we want for its impact on our own ego, psyche, etc. I think that what she is saying with refusing to get on board with my suggestions in this area is that when I really deserve to be punished, that is what it is about. Something that meets my goals in that instance isn't at all what she cares about. Quite the opposite. If I have a desire to cry or experience some kind of catharsis from a spanking, cooperating with that is really fulfilling my desires and giving me something I want, which really runs counter to what the punishment is supposed to accomplish. I want it to serve some purpose in helping me surrender and let go of my resistance. She just wants it to hurt badly enough and long enough that I don't engage in the bad behavior again for a good long while.
Are punishment and discipline separate and distinguishable, and do they entail different kinds of "corrections"? Is their goal the same? Or, is it a matter of whose perspective we are looking at it from? She might be looking to instill more discipline in me or cause me to feel remorse, but she also may see some personal value to her in punishment as pure "giving me what I have coming."
I hope you all have a great weekend.
Hi Dan,
ReplyDeleteThis seems an old still unresolved question in DD relationships. At the concept level discipline and punishment are certainly separate. Discipline is oriented to teaching and reinforcing behavior and attitudes a disciplinarian wishes to achieve including I think in most DD's the habit of obedience and submission to authority. But punishment focuses on some aversive stimulus ( usually corporal punishment) to sanction unacceptable behavior and impose extract consequences for it.The same spanking may be discipline, spanking or more often a combination of the two. Discipline is mainly to teach while punishment is to equal the scales a little and impose a price on bad behavior whether it stops future bad behavior or not. Again at a concept level the two notions can stand alone as for example the difference between a maintenance spanking to encourage continued good behavior and a punishment spanking which is to impose pain for already committed bad behavior.However in real life discipline and punishment overlap in most situations . I believe there have been elements of both in every adult spanking I have received, certainly some have been more about punishment but others more about discipline. But they overlap so tightly I find it impossible to disentangle them at the level of real life.I offer just one example. I was severely spanked earlier this month for smoking just one cigarette at a party.No doubt my wife wanted me to learn the consequences of disobeying her that way but she also was livid and intent on punishment. I think I was both disciplined and punished and both worked to reinforce the other.
Alan
Hi Alan,
DeleteI guess one way of describing it would be that discipline is the end and punishment is the means. But, that kind of begs the question. It's kind of the classic debate on penal policy as to whether the goal of incarceration is rehabilitation (making the offender a better person), deterring the offender (scare him out of doing bad things in the future regardless of whether he subjectively becomes a better person or agrees with the outcome, or punishment as an end in itself regardless of whether it rehabilitates or deters.
When my wife spanks me hard without regard to whether it brings about some kind of catharsis or surrender, it could be deterrence or punishment for its own sake, or both. This would be in-line with conversations she and I have had about correcting some of my most deep-seated bad habits. For you, it sounds like one of those habits may be smoking. For me it's beer. I have told her that as hard as it is to admit, the primary reason I don't drop the drinking habit is really simple -- I like drinking and I like the socializing that comes with it. So, in order to really stop me, there has to be a consequence that outweighs the pleasure I take from the behavior, such that I don't do the bad behavior even if I have not been "rehabilitated" at all. Similarly, she may be angry or fed up with the behavior, so from her perspective the punishment fits the crime and is justified even if it neither rehabilitates nor deters.
Hi Dan. Another good topic. The two can be similar at times. With us , if I upset her or do something I shouldn't she will take me over her knee and give the spanking. When she's done , all is forgiven and forgotten instantly. That usually is sufficient. If I really upset her like I did recently it's much deeper. I made a joke that came out wrong. She was instantly raged. This went on for several days. With the kids being home the problem couldn't be addressed. Finally I cleared out our shed on the back of our property and placed a chair with her paddle. I told her my idea and she was pleased. Later in the day we went out to the " woodshed " and the matter was " discussed " she gave a pretty severe paddling. I don't think the discipline fit the crime but at least we're back to normal and she's feels better about everything.
ReplyDeleteHi JR. It's great you took responsibility in that way, even if you felt the punishment didn't quite fit. And, you know how much I envy you having a real "woodshed" in which to take care of such things.
DeleteHi Dan,
ReplyDeleteI do hope you don't mind that post this here, but I actually think you do have interesting things to say/write about based on a recent comment you left on Jane's blog, A Shrew Tamed. It didn't feel it would be appropriate for me to repost your comment here, but it is the one from May following her trip. I apologize that it is way off topic for this week.
I do hope you will consider posting it here for discussion as it is definitely something I struggle with in our dynamic. (We follow a male led DD relationship structure in our marriage.)
Since your topic was chores - no I don't get punished for not doing them, but I will get in trouble if I do his (perhaps because I got impatient) or ones established as dangerous or I've been warned off. My husband is a pretty strong Daddy Dom figure so I have daily expectations from him, but they relate more to my self care and my attitude.
As to the discipline versus punishment topic, for us I experience daily discipline usually twice a day once in the morning as he goes over my list of the day, and then again before bed to review the day. If he feels the need for punishment it would be separate as we sort of follow a slight ritual/process, and he would be clear with the talk before and during that I'm being punished. However the talk afterwards would tend more towards discipline reinforcing his future expectations along with assurance that I have a "clean slate" now.
Again, I do hope you will consider posting your comment I mentioned earlier here. I know my husband and I found it interesting and it spurred conversation in our house.
So sorry for all the typos ... mobile devices aren't the best for posting comments.
DeleteHi Anonymous, and welcome. I hope you'll participate more in the future. While a lot of the discussion here is framed in the context of F/m DD, I have come to understand--to a large extent through that Taming of the Shrew blog--that while there may be differences between the M/f and F/m dynamics, the motivations are not all that uncommon.
DeleteI'm happy to repost that comment and open it up to discussion, though if you don't mind, I think I'll wait until next week, mainly because as my last couple of posts prove, I am really struggling for discussion topics these days, and that one might make a good one. So, instead of throwing it in into this week's via these comments, I'll wait until next week.
Which hopefully will encourage you to make a return appearance. :-) In which case, what shall we call you?
Also, for those wondering what our anonymous commenter is referring to, here is the link to that post on J.Girl's blog: https://ashrewtamed.blogspot.nl/2017/05/in-which-j-girl-misses-her-daddy-like.html#comment-form
DeleteWhile she and I may be on opposite sides of that paddle, I love her blog and would encourage everyone to give it a visit.
My DD relationship started when my wife and I were just boyfriend and girlfriend in our late teens. I was an only child and somewhat of a spoilt brat who had never been spanked. My girlfriend came from a large Catholic family and had regularly been spanked by both her parents. Early on in our relationship we had attended a party where I had behaved very poorly. As we drove home from the party my future wife told me that she thought that I was a spoilt brat in desperate need good hard spanking. I dropped her home without saying too much and the next day I rang her and apologised for my behaviour at the party and added that perhaps she should give me a spanking. That afternoon after my parents had gone out to visit relatives she came over to my house. She said that she thought the spanking was good idea and asked me when was the last time that I had been spanked. I told her that I had never been spanked. She said that explains a lot and added that perhaps that I was going to need more than one spanking to correct my behaviour. She sat down on the lounge and removed a wooden hairbrush from the handbag. She ordered me to lay across her lap and then proceeded give me a very long and hard hairbrush spanking on my clothed bottom. I found myself really enjoying being with such strong disciplined girlfriend who was going to keep me in line. The spankings continued throughout the courtship and my behaviour improved. Once we were married my wife decided it was time for the spankings to be on the bare bottom. The nature and severity of the spankings depend on the misbehaviour. Every Sunday night before bed I receive a maintenance spanking which is a bare bottom hand spanking. We've been happily married for 25 years.
ReplyDeleteYou might find this earlier account of the marriage of a spoiled brat, only child married to a well disciplined, Catholic girl with a low tolerance for spoiled brats to be of interest.
Deletehttp://disciplinedhubbies.blogspot.com/2013/10/the-forum-ladies-night.html
6:13 AM entry
I sort of like it so much now that it's hard to experience it as real punishment. Weird, I know.
ReplyDeleteHi Dan
ReplyDeleteSorry to hear about you losing your computer. It happened to me a while a ago and it's a real pain.
Regarding differentiating between discipline and punishment there really is a fine line and although we husbands may think about it , to a wife who we have given permission to punish/discipline their husband to correct certain bad behaviour I don't believe there is a difference.
They are in charge of administering the punishment/ discipline as they see fit and we husband's , having given them that authority , really have no say in how it is carried out .
Clearly delivering discipline to an errant husband is an enjoyable experience for a wife and benefits them as much as the husband.
Part of the thrill for them is us not knowing how they intend to deliver punishment discipline?
It certainly could be that unpredictability is part of their power -- in more ways than one.
DeleteI tend to agree, there's no real difference between discipline and punishment. It's like "further" and "farther."
DeleteI have to second Glenmore's opinion. I do think we disciplined spouses could debate nuances endlessly, and be very philosophical about it all.........but Rosa for one would be baffled by our complex analysis. Not because she isn't intelligent, but because she would no doubt see it as arbitrary. I've said before that her dominance and discipline do not exist as meticulously rigid standards but rather a fluid expression of her ability to teach and enforce what she sees as right or wrong, rude, sloppy, etc. I think a lot of our women would eschew such discussion in favor of saying, "just do what I say and what you know you're supposed to do, and you'll be fine".
ReplyDeleteRosa and I do discuss things in detail at times, but the line between punishment and discipline is so subtle, it actually becomes moot in practice. And because Rosa and I are also very D/s in addition to DD.............if she is in the mood to spank, my behavior will have little to do with saving my butt. (Though she may well be more playful in her tone, her smacks won't be all that different.)
Let's face it ,our wives clearly derive satisfaction and enjoyment from delivering a spanking to their man and part of this is their power to control the punishment/discipline in terms of how severe , which implement how long , etc.
ReplyDeleteAs long as they see us wincing when we sit down for the next day or so they will be happy!
I agree!
DeleteSo true Glenmore. My wife I are new to this dynamic and were having a discussion/revaluation this weekend. She is just starting to define her approach and persona as a Domme. I have tried hard to not try and Dom from the bottom and have made every effort to ensure she does not feel obligated to do certain things. I mentioned Spakings. She spanked me for the first time 7 weeks ago and she has every week since. We took a week break in the lifestyle to evaluate. Knowing we were starting it again today, we had a long discussion about the experience thua far. I asked her this weekend if she was ok with giving me spankings and she didnt skip a beat whem she said YES! She said she believes they are a requirment in effort to maintain order and to ensure total submission. I fully agree in this concept but also believe she enjoys that level of control and power. Why wouldnt she ;)
DeleteSo true Glenmore. My wife I are new to this dynamic and were having a discussion/revaluation this weekend. She is just starting to define her approach and persona as a Domme. I have tried hard to not try and Dom from the bottom and have made every effort to ensure she does not feel obligated to do certain things. I mentioned Spakings. She spanked me for the first time 7 weeks ago and she has every week since. We took a week break in the lifestyle to evaluate. Knowing we were starting it again today, we had a long discussion about the experience thua far. I asked her this weekend if she was ok with giving me spankings and she didnt skip a beat whem she said YES! She said she believes they are a requirment in effort to maintain order and to ensure total submission. I fully agree in this concept but also believe she enjoys that level of control and power. Why wouldnt she ;)
DeleteI agree with all this, though it's interesting how hard it is for some to *admit* they like the power and control. And, for me it was hard at first to accept her word for it when she told me that she *does* enjoy it. I was always concerned that she was going along with DD because I had suggested it, and she's not always great about giving me feedback about how she is feeling about something. So, it came as a surprise the first time she told me adamantly that she genuinely enjoys being Dominant -- it just isn't something she is used to and it is sometimes all too easy to go back to her conditioned social role.
DeleteNot only does a wife enjoy being dominant Dan , but they thoroughly enjoy the act of tanning their husband's backside whether it be for discipline or punishment.
DeleteNot only does a wife enjoy being dominant Dan , but they thoroughly enjoy the act of tanning their husband's backside whether it be for discipline or punishment.
DeleteBy the way, hi Julie!
DeleteI read all these comments and I come to realize that my wife enjoys wearing the pants and putting me across her knee for a discipline spanking. She started this on our wedding night and now she spanks where and whenever she thinks I need it. I am just happy that Glenmore is on the receiving end and gets his backside tanned.
DeletePART ONE: This is an interesting subject Dan and one that I have discussed with my hubby in some detail. For us there is a distinct difference between the two. We consider that discipline is the process or training that I have to provide to Tim to ensure that he abides by the prescribed conduct or pattern of behavior that we have both agreed should be his target to refine his life style. Punishment meanwhile is the imposition of a penalty for any faults or violation of the rules. When I “punish” Tim we have established a distinct ritual that he must follow to ensure that he understands that he is being punished and not simply being disciplined. At the time of the offence I order him to our punishment room with the instruction to strip and either stand facing the wall and wait for me. I take my time before climbing the stairs to increase anticipation and then calmly order him to kneel in front of me. I ask him to tell me what offence he has committed. If he hesitates or fails to understand how he violated the rules I smack him firmly across his face several times. This puts him in a very submissive state and I enjoy watching him fidget nervously. I then lecture him on why he is to be punished and for what offence. I sentence him to a certain penalty and normally advise him when I intend to inflict his punishment and with what – this may be a few days away. However sometimes I let him become anxious by saying that the sentence will be executed when and as hard as I decide at that time.
ReplyDeletePART TWO: Basically I deliver true punishments for three different types of violations. 1) Actions that could affect his personal health or damage his career – these punishments I try to invoke his sensitivity to the sadness connected with loss of life, health or position so I work up slow with the beating and challenge his emotions hoping to make him cry. 2) When he has hurt me by comments or actions – these punishments are given as retribution for my hurt and I will make sure they are viciously hard from the first stroke and 3) When he breaks promises or agreements such as failing to come home at an agreed time with no communication – these punishments are modified according to the defense he provides to rationalize the actions but will always be administered severely. Now discipline is different. These spanking are given as part of a teaching process. I’ll give you an example - as I have mentioned in previous posts my hubby can become very irate if things don’t work out while he is completing a project so a little while back I decided to attempt a disciplinary lesson. One morning I instructed him to get up, remain naked with only an apron and prepare my breakfast. I detailed my required food – two eggs, pancakes, bacon, toast and coffee.
ReplyDeletePART THREE: I also told him that I expected the food to be prepared and laid on the table in no more than 15 minutes. For every minute beyond this time he would receive two hard strokes with the cane. Tim leapt out of bed obviously excited with the “game” and quite confident that he could succeed. What I had not shared is that I had moved the coffee to another cupboard; I had hidden the pan; placed the bacon in a fridge down in the basement and left only one egg in the kitchen with the others downstairs. I sneaked down to the kitchen and enjoyed watching his naked bottom bending and flexing as he began his preparations. He began collecting the necessities but visibly became agitated when he could not find the coffee. He began opening and slamming cabinet doors in frustration. Finally he found the coffee. Then the same annoyance with the other items until finally he had gathered up all the required food and utensils and prepared my breakfast. After the fifteen minutes I appeared in the kitchen and asked him why he was delaying my breakfast. He was so mad and was swearing openly and slamming things down so I issued a strong warning to be more controlled. Ultimately the breakfast was complete in 33 minutes. I sat at the table and ordered him to kneel beside me and while I enjoyed the food I lectured him on self discipline, control and patience. He stuttered that everything had been moved but I reminded him that is why we had agreed to communicate.
ReplyDeletePART FOUR: All he had to do was ask me. After breakfast I thoroughly enjoyed delivering a 36 stoke disciplinary caning. So this is how I control my man and love him for allowing me to improve him in such a wonderfully satisfying way. Before I finish could I ask you Dan a question about communication. In my last post I suggested (with other readers) that it would be interesting to hear from your wife on your blog but you said that although she knows of the blog she does not read it. I must admit that if my wonderful husband spent quite a considerable amount of time on a blog I would have to read it to check what was being exchanged and also to learn more about his desires. This would in fact be a good method for communicating feelings and opinions. So my question is how do you successfully communicate your fears, needs, emotions and reactions to punishment/discipline with your wife? You mentioned a journal – could you explain how this works. Thanks
ReplyDeleteHi Tina. About a year ago, on the advice of a female blogger who is in an FLR relationship, I started doing a daily journal. It is fairly "stream of consciousness," with no set format. Sometimes I just tell her what is going on in my life outside the things she sees, such as issues at work, etc. Sometimes it involves self-reporting bad behavior. Sometimes I use it to pass along interesting comments from this or other blogs. While the goal was to do it daily, in practice it has been more like semi-weekly. It takes the form of a password-protected word processor document, which I send to her by email or text. She has the password and, therefore, can open it and read it at her convenience on her phone or computer, and no physical copy is left laying around for prying eyes to see.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
DeleteWhoopee!We have another troll that understand nothing about DD but wants to tell us all how we should think and behave. Tina's description of how she teaches Tim "self discipline, control and patience" was an eloquent explanation from an obviously caring loving wife.She gets it and our ignorant troll doesn't. I understand how people outside the lifestyle might have trouble understanding it but because you don't understand it , don't condemn what others do within the confines of a loving ,and consensual relationship.
DeleteAlan
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
DeleteDan: Thanks Dan for the explanation. It’s certainly a unique way of communicating and for maintaining records. Good luck with all your adventures.
DeleteAnonymous and Alan thanks for your responses – it’s always fascinating to me how people view other folk’s actions. Unfortunately Anonymous I think you did miss my point. Dan’s request was to discuss discipline vs. punishment. I was giving an example of Tim’s training (discipline) by creating a situation where he would need to do two things for self improvement a) control his temper and b) seek help by asking. After our debrief he thought the exercise was amazingly helpful and never considered for one minute that he had been “set up” or "tricked". Our love for each other is amazingly deep and respectful and our trust is and continues to be very strong and unwavering.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
DeleteAlan, you are assuming it is "another" troll.
DeleteKnew when I left for a trip this morning that I should have turned on the content moderation, as this little fucker has been prolific on a couple of other blogs lately. Norman, time to refill the Prozac prescription and go talk to the psychiatrist about the Mommy issues again.
DeleteThough, I am actually not 100% sure this time that it is the same guy. The fixation on the word "sadist" was evident in the comments I deleted over the weekend, but he hasn't tossed around some of his other favorite buzzwords. But they all seem kind of Norman-ish in their compulsions to haunt these kind of blogs while professing horror at their contents. Or, is that just plain old garden-variety lack of self-awareness?
In any event, content moderation goes back up for awhile.
Hi Dan: I know you took the troll postings down but I thought I would ask my husband to offer his thoughts on this blog and the responses we have received. In the meantime to get a better understanding of who we are please see the story of our life’s adventure in Dan’s guestbook #2.
DeleteFrom Tim. Hi I’m Tina’s husband and although I do not normally express myself on our way of life in a public forum there appears to be some major misconceptions from some readers that my wife is not fair. It should be understood that a FLR or a DD relationship involves a huge range of private and personal emotions. Each one of us is an intricate mix of pride, humility, vulnerabilities, determination, fear, worries, resentment, humor, anger, sadness, self image and judgment. Most of us live our lives in a sort of protective bubble. We seldom share our deeper and innermost feelings and are normally reluctant to expose our more intimate desires or needs to anyone else even spouses. When we were first married various comments and actions from one partner made the other annoyed, upset or sad and would lead to arguments or periods of quietness. Since we were incredibly close to each other these wasted times seem to be senseless and unnecessary and we found that the concept of physically disciplining each other to be both sexy and satisfying. To present yourself to the other for a naked chastisement completely destroys any hiding of emotions and totally exposes your innermost vulnerabilities. You get to know each other so intimately that the connection, love, respect and trust simply grow stronger. As time went on I realized that I was still getting angry, not at Tina, but at life situations and we agreed that Tina should try to train this out of me with discipline and if that did not work with real punishments. Yes of course they hurt physically but that was better than me hurting Tina emotionally. When she arranged the breakfast exercise she was recreating a situation that could have been a life activity where things did not go exactly right but she was there to help. When I could not find certain items all I had to do was call to her and ask but instead I let my pride take over and then my frustration. She is an amazing and creative woman and this exercise was extremely successful in demonstrating to me my weaknesses. I never ever considered it as a “set up” or a “trap” just another wonderful way that she expresses her love and thoughtfulness. When it comes to real punishments it is important that I am mentally and emotionally prepared and during the lead up to the implementation she creates tension by reminding me that she intends to hurt me or similar words. It is a powerful reminder of what is to come and conditions my mind to the true concept of punishment and the reasons it is being delivered. Unless you are living in a loving, consensual relationship you may find this difficult to understand. In fact that is why we never share our lifestyle with our friends since there seems to be such a vitriolic judgment of a DD relationship. Unfortunately that negative judgment now seems to be overlapping into a blog devoted to the benefits of such a life style. There is absolutely no doubt that Tina loves me being naked with her dressed and that she gets sexually turned on by spanking me but that is simply a huge benefit for both of us. It also destroys any fears that she may think less of me as a man for accepting her discipline. I hope this alleviates any fears that my life partner is being unfair or sadistic. We will be traveling for a few weeks so don’t think Tina is ignoring you if she does not post.
By the way, to Tina's Tim, thanks for joining in.
DeleteI agree with several that have said punishment is for a specific act or breaking a rule where discipline is part of training to become a better person.
ReplyDeleteI think that is a helpful distinction.
DeleteTo me discipline is agreeing to the rules you want to live by including behavioral control, health and safety. Punishment is what happens when you break or don't follow the rules agreed to. There are times when my wife will punish me when I have broken a rule that has not been hurtful to her as an obligation to fulfill our agreement and she has done it for that reason and derives no enjoyment from doing it. There are other times when I break a rule that has been hurtful to her or completely inappropriate behavior in her mind, and in these cases she enjoys putting me in my place. The power to do this brings her satisfaction. In this latter case she enjoys her power to soundly paddle my ass and often as payback. In the former case she really doesn't get satisfaction from the paddling, but does it as part of our agreement to help me in these areas.
ReplyDeleteBy the way Dan, I think your wife is 100 percent correct in paddling your ass hard from the beginning because she is trying to correct your bad behavior and she isn't going to accomplish that by giving you what you want (starting slow and building up from there). The triple header you wrote about is exactly what is needed to help you control your sometimes out of control partying with your staff. You like the partying, and so do I, but you also realize it is out of control realizing you need help from your wife to get your behavior under control. For what it's worth. Fred
Hi Fred. I think that mine kind of enjoys humbling me whether what I have done directly impacted her or not. But, that is not to say it is not *more* gratifying to her when she is dealing with something that did have such a personal impact. Where something is more about me asking for punishment to improve in certain areas, it is more likely to fall by the wayside. It's one reason I do think these relationships work best when the wife is addressing issues that truly do anger her.
DeleteI do think she is probably right to take the tact she has been taking, even if I don't feel like it taking me in a direction that I do think could have some positive effects for us both. But, accepting that is part of the process.
Dan
ReplyDeleteTo my mind discipline is administered on a weekly basis, as a reminder of the behavior Peter has agreed needs improvement. Punishment is always harsh and is for breaking specific rules. Punishment should be administered as close to the infraction as possible. Punishment is meant to be harsh. The more often a rule is broken the harsher the punishment must be.
In our house I think of discipline as a spanking before we go to dinner on Friday "date" night. At dinner we can then discuss what rule, if any, he has broken and I expect Peter to explain in detail how and why he chose to break the rule. If his answer is a vague or often heard excuse after dinner we will move to the punishment phase.
If, it is a rule he breaks often, then the punishment may extend to the entire weekend. The harshest for Peter is no electronics for the weekend.
anna
Hi Anna. I absolutely cannot imagine a weekend without my little electronic distractions. Truly cruel and inhuman punishment.
DeleteTaking away his electronic devices is going to far Anna!☺
Delete(Of course it does sound like he would be too sore to sit down and use them anyway.)
DAN
DeleteLast nite Anna discovered that when I broke a no electronic ban, by sneaking to my brother's place for a few hours during such a ban a few weekends ago, she took me to our room and caned me. I write this from her laptop. Yes no electronics now for 10days.
peter
Hi Peter. I have no idea how you will survive. I get lucky that my job involves a ton of computer time, so there is no way my wife could cut me off of my smartphone and computer without causing major work disruption. So, at least at this stage in our life, denying me those is probably not in the cards. Though, given how addicted we all are to these electronic distractions, I wonder what it would be like at the end of 10 truly electronic-free days.
DeleteSometimes with my wife there is a fine line between a discipline and punishment spanking. With discipline she will start out what I need to work on and then gives me a history lesson on where I have been slacking off. I'm usually bent over the the bed thinking to myself this is going to bad . The one big she does do for a discipline is let me select three implements where as a punishment she gets her own.
ReplyDeleteFrank
Definitely understand the fine line.
DeleteHi Dan
ReplyDeleteA question not related to this topic. I just recently discovered your forum and am still going through the past posts and topics.
I was wondering is it too late to post a comment in the older posts and topics in the forum as I find some of them very interested.
It's not too late, though even when I don't have full comment moderation on, I usually have it set to require moderation on older posts. Largely because commercial porn sites try to sneak in links to their websites into comments on older posts, thinking the blogger won't notice. So, feel free to comment on older ones, but the comment won't be posted until I get a chance to go in and approve it. Though, I turned on full comment moderation last night thanks to this latest little troll infestation.
DeleteI understand that problem Dan and its very annoying. Thanks for moderating , I'm glad I found your site to share with other like minded.
ReplyDeleteQuoting Tina( above):"If he hesitates or fails to understand how he violated the rules I smack him firmly across his face several times". I just wanted to draw attention to this technique which she implies she uses somewhat often.I do so because I think ( possibly mistakenly) that there is a mild taboo against face slapping in the DD world.There should not be as long as the slap is carefully delivered and not excessive, in other words mainly symbolic and so to say a " show stopper"I discovered the power of face slapping early in my spanking experiences with my former girlfriend. It was spontaneous and almost accidental. We had gone through a period in which I encouraged her to be firm especially at the beginning of discipline to take control. Around that time I did or said something (completely forget what) and she very firmly started to pull my pants down ( in private) I put up a good deal of strong resistance and she suddenly without any warning gave me a sharp face slap admonishing me to obey her. It was not something we had talked about doing and it shocked me and stopped the resistance cold. I went into a kind of zone and cooperated with her fully completely reversing the mood I was in.It was probably the first time she was completely in charge from the beginning. We talked about it later and she admitted she had used it earlier with other men but she incorporated it into future discipline when ever I resisted.Maybe not as often as Tina apparently uses it but often enough.I still can't completely explain what it does but I think it stripped me of ego and allowed me to fully and immediately submit to her. It was very powerful.My wife used a similar technique early in our relationship but it just isn't necessary any longer and so its been a while since it happened. But if it did I think it would still stop me cold. It is very very powerful.
ReplyDeleteAlan
Hi Alan. My wife hasn't done it, but I do get how it could be very powerful. Maybe because unlike spankings, beings slapped really isn't a part of most disciplinary fantasies? So, when it happens it makes the control and dominance real, precisely because it plays less to our fantasies?
DeleteIn our marriage, the discipline session I receive each week from my wife is maintenance to keep me from porn, masturbation, and ogling women in public. The purpose is to keep me focused on my wife and to remember that she's the boss. For discipline, she will use primarily the paddle, but she sometimes uses her wooden hairbrush or the dowel rod. For punishment, it's the same tools, but more strokes/swats and harder. Generally paddle only because she views it as her most effective implement, and she is correct. Plus, there will be a longer lecture and aggravated tone in her voice before she really brings the pain. Things she deals with immediately, like me being a little late, are over quickly and more of a disciplinary thing. Treating family poorly, or displaying anger toward her, will warrant punishment. It hurts, a lot, but then discipline is no walk in the park, either.
ReplyDeleteHi GeorgiaFella. Thanks for these distinctions and observations
DeleteIn the book "The Prince" by Machiavelli, he says "A controversy has arisen about this: whether it is better to be loved or feared, or visa versa. My view is that it is desirable to be both loved and feared; but it is difficult to achieve both and, if one of them has to be lacking, it is much safer to be feared than loved....For love is sustained by a bond of gratitude which, because men are excessively self-interested, is broken whenever they see a chance to benefit themselves. But fear is sustained by a dread of punishment that is always effective."
ReplyDeleteI've always liked that quote. While Machiavelli may be seen today as, well, Machiavellian, his advice on how to acquire power and maintain it is pretty hard to refute.
DeleteExcellent blog you have got here.. It's difficult to find high quality writing like yours these days.
ReplyDeleteI truly appreciate individuals like you! Take care!!