Hi all, and welcome back to the Forum, our weekly gathering of men and, increasingly, women who are participating or interested in Domestic Discipline and Female Led Relationships. Thanks again to all our Lurkers who stepped up to the virtual microphone last week. I hope at least a few of you will stick around as regular contributors.
"You're really asking for it!" A phrase used in frustration by moms, Disciplinary Wives, and frustrated partners, probably the world over. But what about literally "asking for it?" When, if ever, should the disciplined spouse speak up when they've been bad and need to be punished, or when they feel out of control and need tighter boundaries imposed? There are a lot of different views on this. Some have expressly agreed that the disciplined spouse can "ask for it" when they feel a punishment has been earned or they need to offer up that act of penance, or when they just feel the need for it. Others see it as "topping from below." Others not only allow it, but require it as part of the spanking ritual.
I know many on this forum go in adifferent direction on this, and it is an issue I can see from both sides. I've never quite bought the whole "topping from below" concept as applicable in a DD context, as opposed to Femdom and BDSM. I just see it as very problematic if taken so far that one spouse can't express their needs. I also suspect that many "tops" dramatically over-estimate their own ability to read and fully understand the other parties' wants and needs and then make unilaterally good decisions on whether and how to meet those needs. But, there are lots of variations and degrees of control in these relationships, and my wife expressed one of them.
So, what role, if any, does "asking for it" play in your relationship? I do realize, by the way, that we have done this one before, but it has been awhile.
Dan
Though, if you wanted a spanking, asked for one, and she got mad and gave you one, sounds you accomplished what you wanted, albeit indirectly. :-)
ReplyDeleteI personally don't feel that someone expressing a need for discipline for misbehavior as "Topping from the bottom." I see it more as taking responsibility for one's actions. If my partner is doing things that he's not supposed to do, I would hope that he would come to me and tell me about it.
ReplyDeleteSometimes, a maintenance or "just because" spanking is necessary, and it can clear the air. Also, if one feels they need or deserve a spanking, perhaps telling the disciplinary partner what you did to deserve one would be helpful. True, it's up to the disciplinary partner to decide what to do, but by being honest, it might help.
I also have occasionally sent Shilo to the corner when I'm angry so I have time to think out what I will do, and also to calm down. I make it a point to never discipline when I'm angry because I can be vicious.
Hi Merry. I like the distinction between "topping" and "taking responsibility"
DeleteI do too! ☺
DeleteAlso, by communicating clearly with your partner about your shortcomings, it helps the relationship to grow. It also allows me to see the emotional growth in my partner.
Dan, I ask for a spanking sometimes because I crave one or need one because I'm stressed about work and not because I have done something wrong. I don't consider this topping from the bottom, but just requesting a need like my wife does when she wants her feet rubbed. Happy Thanksgiving All, John
ReplyDeleteHi John. Great analogy! Happy Thanksgiving to you too.
DeleteDan
Dan
ReplyDeleteKnow I say this with love. Last week in a response to me about Peter and
you were similar, you pointed out the following and i will quote :
“ For me its more about autonomy than creativity”…. “ the irony for me is
that I absolutely hate rules”
Both of those statements seem to me to indicate a strong desire to top
from the bottom. I feel you are well within your rights to indicate that you
think you need a firm hand, but then the decision should be in your wife’s
hands. Ask and dont pout if you dont get your way.
Love You
anna
Hi Anna. Oh believe me, I'm pretty aware of my residual desire to be in control. It's why in that last post I mentioned the irony. Autonomy is one of my biggest motivators, and I absolutely hate rules. Yet, I have voluntarily chosen a lifestyle that is all about limiting my autonomy and learning to follow rules.
DeleteWhen I asked her about whether it would be good or bad to tell her when I need a punishment session, that would always have involved her deciding to do it or not do it. But, it was pretty clear that she sees asking for it as undermining, regardless of whether she gets to make the final decision.
Dan
DeleteSeems to me, like it or not you have what you need most. Bend to her will !
anna
There is no need for me to "ask" for a spanking : J. is ready enough to deliver one when she thinks I need it (which is often) but I will sometimes "volunteer" when she glares at me with an ominous frown...
ReplyDeleteThere have also been a few times when, while she was away from home, I did (or failed to do) something I knew would earn me a whipping - and I anticipated what was coming to me by baring my bottom and "assuming the position" shortly before she was due to return (and discover what I had done) ... She appreciates my admission of guilt, but it doesn't earn me any clemency when she fetches the kitchen spoon or the martinet to give me what she feels I deserve...
L.
L: I appreciate your willingness to accept whatever punishment I feel you deserve - and also to anticipate it when you know you have it coming. There is no reason, however, why this should warrant any "clemency" on my part! I am the one who decides how (and how hard) you need to be punished - and you should be ready to accept it, no matter whether you like it or not !
DeleteJ.
See -- the solution was right there under our nose. If a wife spanks often enough and hard enough, the whole idea of "asking for it" becomes superfluous!
DeleteThanks J. and L. Have a great Thanksgiving.
Thanksgiving is the only "day of mercy" in the year - no matter what I might do on that day, but the day AFTER Thanksgiving (which J. likes to refer to as "Spanksgiving") is typically devoted to the settling of "pending accounts" - and yesterday was no exception!
DeleteL.
ps: and L. didn't need to "ask for it" !
There is just so much variation in terms of needs and motives that I doubt any one answer can address all of it. First there are those who not only spank punitively for misbehavior, but also for fun, or sexiness, or even just balance. Under these circumstances I can't see how letting the authority figure know about having an itch is so bad?
ReplyDeleteSecondly, even under more serious situations, there are Tops (like mine for example) who WANT confessions and even find a confession followed by an offer to suffer for the offence to be very moving. Obviously, others feel differently.
But even with all this, there are just so many possibilities for why a person might 'ask'....that the response to such a request could be affected by so many different thoughts as well. Sometimes things are just as simple as mood.
However, if a Top has a very strong feeling about this, they too must have their reasons. Not feeling in control is a real threat to dominance. So if being asked feels manipulative, then I suppose there's not much to do but respect that feeling.
@ kdpierre: That's how I am with the men in my Household. I want to know their mindset, and I also desire the confessions, because it shows me that what I'm striving for in our relationship is working.
DeleteWe have " signals" that I use when I feel the need for her to take me over her knee. Other times she takes charge Last week we were on vacation and we had an off day. I don't usually come out and directly ask for a spanking but I knew she wasn't happy so this afternoon I simply asked for a good spanking to make up for things. She agreed. She hasn't taken care of things yet but once she does all will be forgiven and good again.
ReplyDeleteHi Jr. That sounds like a very workable system.
DeleteI enjoyed this discussion.
ReplyDeleteI agree with those that say "topping from the bottom" is an ambiguous term. Here, I think my J is stricter about it because of past experiences in which I tried to control. It's been years since I've done that, but still, if he gets even a whiff of me trying to control, he pounces. But I've found the way I approach him is crucial. "I'm sorry about x," I will say. "I feel badly that I did x, y, z." And I've tried to train myself to accept whatever he says, if that's "Don't do it again," or "I'm going to punish you for that," or whatever the case may be. J wants total control over decisions regarding whether or not I'll be disciplined.
Sometimes, the circumstances need clarification. Last week was such an instance. He asked me, "Do you feel I should spank you for this?" I thought long and hard before I answered. I don't like to be punished, but I do want to be honest. And if I tell him yes, I know there's no turning back. I didn't see this as a lack of control, but merely something that helped in the decision-making process.
We also have signals, like Jr. We refer to my "spank tank." If I "feel" off and I need a spanking for non-disciplinary purposes, I tell him "my spank tank is empty." That doesn't happen very often anymore, but it's still an option that works for us.
Hi J. Girl! Thanks for joining us! I admire the extent to which you have been able to train yourself to accept whatever he says. I'm not there yet, but it hasn't been very long since we started moving from our previously more narrow DD, where punishment really should follow bad behavior, to more of a power exchange with her making more decisions and controlling more of the overall process.
DeleteAnd, it sounds like you do have some kind of feedback process, or he at least does ask for your input in some circumstances, and even more input on non-disciplinary spankings. I think something like this may be where we are heading, but with some kind of formalized "check-in" session where we get together periodically and talk about my behavior, how things are working, etc. Then, she would decide on her own whether punishment is going to happen.
For us, it has taken the form of self-reporting. There was a housekeeping thing that Ann thought I had done. I discovered evidence that I had not, so I confessed. No mercy because I confessed. Still ended up with a bruised bottom and in tears, and had to wait in the corner for it. On the other hand I don't just ask to be spanked. As hard as Ann has learned to spank, that has little appeal.
ReplyDeleteSame here. Asking for it has become a less appealing proposition since she really stepped up the intensity.
DeleteDan
ReplyDeleteAnna and I now have a check in session at least twice a week. Nothing too formal, usually it occurs either at our date nite on friday nights at dinner, and then depending on our schedules we find right before bed, with lights out I feel most at ease to either confess or relate my inner needs and feelings. Often Anna will ask are you telling me you want discipline? I have come to learn that to say yes doesn't mean i will get it. A few weeks ago I was rude to Anna and in bed that nite i apologized. She asked if I was asking for discipline. I answered whatever would make her feel best. Long story short she got up removed her nightie and then had me orally pleasure her. I was thrilled and worked hard to make sure it was done well. After her release she thanked me, turned over and went to sleep
I was aroused and I confess thought id be given release. She kissed my cheek said no that was my punishment no release. At that moment I got it. Really got it!
peter
That one would certainly get your attention, wouldn't it!
DeleteI HATE to ask. It sticks in my throat. Over the years I have only asked a very few times.
ReplyDeleteThe irony is that I know for sure, 99% of the time I would get it.
We have a list of things that justify my being disciplined. They specifically relate to things I do or don't that we both believe are irritating to my wife and uncalled for. If I do something she doesn't know about it hasn't affected her. I would be nuts to ask to be punished for something she doesn't know about and doesn't affect her. Does it violate the spirit of our agreement?. I don't think so. Sometimes you're better off keeping things to yourself for both your sake and your wife's sake. I am definitely not looking to irritate her or getting a bruised behind which an admission would likely create. I may carry some guilt for a while, but in doing so I will not cause my wife the irritation she would probably have if I told her about it. I do not look forward to the kind of paddling's I get when I screw up and not being a masochist I'll just keep things to myself.
ReplyDeleteFred
Fred
When I admit misbehavior during a behavior review I am taking responsibility for what I did or failed to do.How I am punished or if I am punished is totally her authority .Sometimes she asks me if I deserve a spanking and I try to honestly answer her. But unless she asks it would be very arrogant for me to suggest a punishment. From the beginning of discipline she has been strict about that or any action on my part that challenges her authority in any way.
ReplyDeleteAlan