Hi all, and welcome back to the Forum, our weekly gathering of men and, increasingly, women who are participating or interested in Domestic Discipline and Female Led Relationships. Welcome to you all, and particularly our Lurkers. While the Love Our Lurkers event officially ended yesterday, I would like to keep it running on this blog at least through the weekend, as I know some people are too busy to stop by during the week. So, to all our Lurkers, this is a continuing invitation to jump into the conversation.
We had another poll close, and I will say in advance that I am going to keep a heavy thumb on the "Moderator" button for this one, because politics by its very nature tends to divide more than unite. But, in my ongoing attempt to ferret out who this little (or not so little -- hard to say) community of ours is comprised of, and given that I am kind of a political junkie myself and it is debate season, I did want to see what we could learn about where our readers lean politically. Participation on this one was low -- only 60 votes, which may itself indicate that this was a sensitive topic. The results were:
Democrat
|
15
(25%)
|
Republican
|
20
(33%)
|
Independent
|
16
(26%)
|
Other
|
4
(6%)
|
None
|
5
(8%)
|
With participation this low, it's hard to say anything very meaningful, other than that these do not mirror the population as a whole. According to Gallup: "An average 43% of Americans identified politically as independents in 2014, establishing a new high in Gallup telephone poll trends back to 1988. In terms of national identification with the two major parties, Democrats continued to hold a modest edge over Republicans, 30% to 26%." Among those of our readers who participated, Independents and Democrats are virtually tied, while Republicans held a lead of 4-5 points. While it might be tempting to look at these results and conclude that Republicans are more interested in DD and FLR than Democrats and Independents, keep in mind that one of our previous polls showed that this blog's readership tilts heavily toward the over-50 age demographic, and Republicans outnumber Democrats in that age group by a significant margin. Our age-related poll also showed that very few of our readers are in their 20s and early 30s, while people in that age cohort tilt very heavily Independent or unaffiliated. Therefore, those age-related demographic aspects of our particular readership could alone could account for a lot of the split we see in this poll.With that little bit of demographic insight, or lack thereof, addressed, on to our actual topic.
The inspiration for this week's topic comes from the combination of a reader inquiry that came to me by email, and a conversation I had (again by email), with another reader. They raised separate issues, but the more I thought about it, there was a common theme that seemed worth discussing. The initial reader inquiry (I am not revealing his name, because he has not given me express permission to do so) was centered on what to do when the disciplinarian feels they themselves need discipline or atonement? It's a hard set of options in some ways. The couple could try "switching." There are, for example, versions of the Spencer Spanking Plan that encourage mutual disciplinary spankings. However, for the reader who contacted me, it wouldn't work, because it would undermine the F/m authority they want to keep in place. He also just wouldn't feel comfortable spanking a woman. (I share that issue, by the way. I have no problem at all with those who switch or with the those in consensual M/f spanking relationships, and I welcome them to come and participate in our more F/m oriented group. But, I personally couldn't give a disciplinary spanking to any woman.) Another option might be a professional disciplinarian, or even a fellow non-professional disciplinarian who could lend a helping hand, so to speak. But, how do you deal with finding the right one, assuring that they are safe and sane, etc.?
The related question that came to my mind is, do many of our Disciplinary Wives, in fact, ever have the desire to be disciplined themselves? I also wondered whether this also reflects another kind of natural division among those who adopt this lifestyle -- some react to stress and being out of control by wanting to exercise more leadership and more control, while others react to those same forces by wanting to stop controlling everything and by handing the reins over to someone else. I definitely fit in the latter camp. The whole reason I found DD attractive was it gave me a way to step back from the control I have to exercise in the rest of my life.
So, I know this topic is a little nebulous, but any advice for our fellow reader who would like to meet his wife's infrequent but real need for some atonement? And, what is your own reaction to feeling out of control or stressed? Do you want to exercise more control, or give it up to someone else?
Have a great week.
Dan
My wife is discipline spanked by her mother. I am not present but am told when it happens. She has no interest in my spanking her and I really have no interest in doing so.Her mother knows her daughter spanks me and is supportive of it. But her mother has told her being my disciplinarian doesn't make her immune to discipline herself.My wife obeys her mother and so there is no conflict about it and I don't really have a say about it. Being subject to discipline has made my wife stricter with me about some things but she is not spanking as hard as she did. So I am getting spanked more often but not as severely.
ReplyDeleteThat's a very interesting approach. Thanks for sharing.
DeleteHi Dan,
ReplyDeleteThe woman who introduced me to spanking did have some interest initially in being " straightened out" occasionally. We tried it once or twice, a mild hand spanking. But she didn't like it at all and that phase of our relationship was very short. I think she had experimented with being spanked before but with me in any case it was a bust. My wife has zero interest in being spanked and except for casual conversation it has not even been discussed between us. She was spanked by a previous partner and the experience left her with very strong feelings about which " side of the brush" ( her phrase which I like) she belonged. I would like to add my opinion that switching is impossible in a real DD relationship. Someone has to be in charge and going back and forth with that can't long term work.I am not saying within a lifetime you can't experience both sides of the brush with different partners. That happened to me but once I came under discipline I knew that was where I belonged and I have never changed my mid about that. In a way my wife has had the opposite experience and feels just as strongly about where she belongs.
Alan
Thanks, Alan. That's really where we are -- both very comfortable knowing which side of the brush--or paddle or strap as the case may be--we each belong on.
DeleteI don't think I can be of much help this week. Rosa has no desire to be disciplined. At the very most, on very rare occasions, she enjoys a sexual smacking of her bottom in a very particular way and with no issue attached to it other than sensation-play. And afterwards, she usually makes sure to do something to definitively re-assert her dominant role......just to make sure we are back where we belong.
ReplyDeleteAs for a wife who does want physical discipline? Well, there are several options and each has been mentioned, so at this point it's just a matter of the couple deciding which option best suits them.
I wish I could offer more, but this is pretty cut-and-dried for me. (And sometimes short answers are the best.)
We have a different approach. My wife has procrastination issues. Especially with Dr appointments and medications. She often waits too long to schedule then cancels. We've lost a few physicians this way and meds that were difficult to fill because she didn't call the office in time. I said if the situation was the other way around I would definitely be over her knee and the same should apply to her. Do to all the previous problems she actually agreed. It wasn't long until the situation presented. I asked HER to bring the paddle to ME. This was extremely difficult but I did take her over my knee like she does me and gave her a spanking. Nothing too hard but enough to get the point across. She said it was deserved and knows how it feels to be on the receiving end. She also said she felt relieved. This happens about once a year. I don't care to give so much. The old atage is true when they say " this is going to hurt me more than you " but when done out of love can be given.
ReplyDeleteIf my wife did something she felt really guilty about and asked me to spank her I would. By the way that has never happened. But if she did, why should I let her linger in guilt when an OTK open hand spanking that was just hard enough would relieve that guilt. One of the benefits I get from being paddled is relieving my guilt for doing something I shouldn't have done. Living with guilt is a terrible burden to pay, I have lived with that burden before we started F/M DD.. I think it would be more cruel not to give my wife a spanking she asked for. As a loving husband, I would not want somebody else to spank her. It would be my job to do because she asked me.to.
ReplyDeleteIn any event, when we started DD and discussed the parameters my wife made certain to let me know it would be a one way street with me getting the spanking, not her. So my response above is based on doing the right thing if my wife did request a spanking to relieve guilt for something she had done.
Fred
Hi JR and Fred. You give me something to think about, in terms of whether I would be being selfish if I did not agree to spank my wife under such circumstances. Honestly, I still don't think I could do it, but thankfully I don't have to find out. No way she would ever go there.
ReplyDeleteDan;
DeleteBased what you have stated in various posts, your domestic discipline relationship began after you stated your need for physical discipline to your wife. She agreed to try and that relationship blossomed into the one that the two of you enjoy today. (I am aware that you may suffer, physically, at times but you asked for the relationship, and you blog about it – so one would assume that you are fairly happy with your relationship). Further, many of the domestic discipline relationships of your readers (based on what they have written in their contributions) began after one party (usually, but not always, the submissive) stated their need for the discipline and correction (or their need or desire to provide maternal direction and control – physically) to the other. The other party agreed, and their relationships blossomed into the ones they enjoy today.
I do not think the refusal of one partner to discipline the other is necessarily “selfish” because the needs of all of the parties in a relationship are important. But, if the table was turned, and she asked you for something that she really needed, and you recognized her request for physical correction and paternal control and direction as serious and important to her, could you really say “No!”
Giving a “fun” or “playful” spanking to a woman I am romantically involved with has always been a turn-on for me. Giving a disciplined spanking to her, or anyone, is not something I would be comfortable with. However, if she asked me to give her a spanking, or adopt a disciplinary lifestyle, and I felt that the need was serious, and important to her, I do not think I could say “No”. In the same way, if she felt there was a need to for me to receive physical discipline and control from her, and I felt the request was serious and important to her, I do not think I could say “No”.
Just my thoughts.
Jack
Hi Jack. There are a few relevant distinctions that are important to understand. Our DD relationship didn't really begin with me professing a "need" for physical discipline and her reluctantly and selflessly agreeing to give it a try. It was much more bilateral than that. It is true that I instigated it, after seeing the Disciplinary Wives Club website. After I viewed it, I told her about and asked her to take a look. The "pitch" on my part, to the extent there was one, was really more about giving her a tool to keep me in line and take out her frustrations with me in a concrete manner. After spending a day reviewing the DWC, she was interested in trying it. And, while she had some of the tentativeness that most non-sadists would have about hurting someone, she didn't have any real emotional aversion to giving a disciplinary spanking. I am quite the opposite. I have an aversion to spanking a woman, whether disciplinary or erotic. I think there is some chance I could get past the aversion to erotic spanking, but there is just no way that I could give a disciplinary spanking to a woman without it really violating who I an. So, if she had a true need for it, I would be happy to pay for a professional, go find one for her, supervise to make sure it was safe, but I would not be the one conducting it..
DeleteDan;
DeleteThat was a very thoughtful and meaningful explanation. Thank you.
Jack
Regarding Love your Lurkers: I have written before, usually long answers which need to be continued in a second block, previously, as an anonymous contributor. I do not contribute as much as others because I am not in a domestic discipline relationship. Label me as “Just curious”. But I enjoy your blog and I especially enjoy the comments from the forum/blog contributors. I do not consider myself a “lurker”. I consider myself a “reader”.
ReplyDeleteRe: “(W)hat is your own reaction to feeling out of control or stressed? Do you want to exercise more control, or give it up to someone else?” I have never thought of the domestic discipline situation in exactly that way. It caused me to think for a while. First, that is a very insightful question.
I think that, with a couple of exceptions, I generally try to take control. I have confidence in my abilities and leadership and will do the best I can for all of the stakeholders, even though I believe that in life as in business, every decision requires a trade-off of some kind. The exceptions are 1) when in a business situation when I do not have all of the information to make a decision (which can happen for various reasons); and 2) when I am sick – and I am still learning this lesson – but I need to follow directions – and not lead or do my own thing.
Re: (A)ny advice for our fellow reader who would like to meet his wife's infrequent but real need for some atonement? You have raised the issue of non-physical or alternative punishment before, I believe, in Volume 105 and with a follow up discussion in Volume 106. My wife and I raised two fine boys – who are now fully grown gentlemen, without ever resorting to physical punishment. Perhaps an alternative / non-physical punishment would better meet the wife's need for atonement. Since authority is an issue in the decision, perhaps the wife could decide, or have the final say in determining, the alternative punishment, with the husband making a recommendation.
That is my two cents. Thank you again for the blog. I'll expect you to keep writing, and you can expect me to keep reading. I still really enjoy this blog, even if I do not weigh-in on each discussion. Keep up the good work.
Jack
Thanks, Jack. And, thanks for joining in, however frequently that may be.
DeleteI do spank my wife when necessary. She doesn't get it often, but it does her a world of good. Besides she has learned how to discipline me better from it.
ReplyDeleteBill
I can see how that feedback loop might be a benefit of switching. Thanks, Bill.
DeleteI've mentioned before that I had a modified Spencer plan with Shilo for myself, but it's been a long time since I've been spanked
ReplyDeleteAs for your poll, I answered Independent mostly because I have voted across political lines in the past. We record and watch all the debates, and I can honestly say I have a personal favorite in both major parties right now. I also have a few I hate. This will be interesting!
HI Merry. Did the Spencer plan lead to any confusion of roles, for either you or him?
DeleteNot really.
DeleteIn my case, I have to request it, and provide a reason for my request. I almost think Shilo dislikes doing it, but unlike my long-term partner Rob, Shilo isn't afraid of 'hurting' me, and so he gets me to where I need to be quickly.
We also have clear lines of who does what in the household, and if I tell Shilo to do something, he understands it is part of his service to me, and it doesn't make him in charge. It's more like a boss delegating authority to others.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteDan
ReplyDeleteIf I have learned anything from reading this blog, it is how diverse a group of people are involved un domestic discipline. I can speak for myself in saying I have no interest in reversing roles with Anna. As she has revealed in past postings, it was in marriage counseling that she discovered I had gone to a professional for discipline. It was never involving sex. When Anna chose to take that over, I was grateful. I didn't realize hot much more effective as well as comforting it has been. This works for us. Peter
Hi Peter. I agree. There is no "right" or "correct" way to do this stuff. Different strokes for different folks. So to speak.
DeleteDan
DeletePeter and I sense from your blog are both men that need to be creative at work. I understand that requires a certain amount of freedom. At home that freedom often needs reining in. The path that Peter and I have taken regarding discipline for him, works. Neither of us want to mess with something that is working. Anna
Hi Anna. I agree for the most part, though for me it's more about autonomy than creativity. The irony for me is that I absolutely hate rules, yet here I have chosen DD and being subject someone's authority.
DeleteWe have in in the past discussed the hypothetical idea of switching roles but Mistress has no interest or desire in being spanked. As I was the one who initiated a domestic discipline regime, I have no desire to punish her either. The reason for our DD regime is that we both feel I need a level of discipline in my life. Even though there are times when Mistress makes mistakes, I never feel there is a need to discipline her. For us, and I am only speaking for us, it would upset the balance of our relationship
ReplyDeleteThanks RM. I like the distinction between making mistakes and needing discipline
DeleteThanks Dan for airing this topic and to those people who have commented. Lynne and I both appreciate your views which have made us determined to seeing she gets the discipline she needs.
ReplyDeleteEssential to us is that we do not change the existing FLR discipline which has stood us in good stead for many years and enhanced our everyday relationship. Our worry is if I discipline her we’ll jeopardise this and that’s the last thing either of us want. I’m also with Dan in hating the idea of her suffering pain let alone me actually inflicting but I’m reminded she had to overcome similar taboos when she first started disciplining me and still does today so it’s something I’ll have to get used to.
Since writing to Dan, we’ve discussed it openly which is good considering she first mentioned it a couple of years ago and until now we’ve both brushed it aside. We agree on some things, sometimes for different reasons, but as to be expected, disagree on others. At least we’ve established her needs are different to mine in that she needs a more confessional style of discipline where she can recognise and admit to failure herself and then present for punishment. Hopefully without the need for same day punishment or maintenance, this will help us find a disciplinarian.
This weekend, we hope to build a plan and decide how and who we’re going to approach. We don’t know anyone else in FLR or DD relationships so we’ll have to rely on our instinct and google. Whatever comes of it, the person will have to be someone we both are comfortable with and can trust to be firm but fair and safe with her and that may be a big order. Something I have learned this week is to be less protective and that’s proving difficult enough!
Dave
Hi Dave. Hope the group discussion helped.
DeleteDan