“If there is no struggle, there is no progress.” - Frederick Douglass
Hello all. Welcome back to The Disciplinary Wives Club – Tribute blog. Our weekly on-line gathering of women and men who are in, or would like to be in, a Domestic Discipline relationship of the type advocated by the former Disciplinary Wives Club (archived copy in the “Links I Like” list, below right).
I hope you all had a good week. Although I’m stuck with some assistive devices through this week at least, I feel like maybe, just maybe, I’m seeing the worst of this whole rehabilitation process in the rearview mirror.
Which might be bad for my rear. Earlier in the week, Anne climbed into bed with me, and with no lead-in from me asked, “So, are you about ready to start getting spanked again?”
It’s another not-so-subtle indication of the extent to which this thing that once was largely about accommodating me is now her own, independent thing.
Which is a nice transition into a topic idea that came from “Garageswats” a couple of weeks ago:
“So this is a continuation from a comment last week around rules. It made me think and I’ve been turning it over all week. Do we practice DD mainly for behavior modification? I’m not sure that’s been the case for us, although there certainly is some of that. But I’m not sure that DD motivates me to change my behavior. I also don’t have this really figured out as to what it does more so than put my wife in charge (and get my ass spanked). Anyway, not sure if this is a topic that’s interesting for you all but it is something I’ve been thinking about.”
The reason it’s a good transition from my observation about Anne’s increasing embrace of her Disciplinary Wife status is that, for us, the reasons for practicing DD have changed over time. Or, at least, the relative ranking of the reasons has changed.
When we first began, I do think behavior modification was a big part—maybe the biggest part—of the motivation. I was deeply attracted to what I saw as the core of the DWC, i.e. women using disciplinary spankings to address problematic behavior they wanted to modify.
Behavior modification still is a major part of what we are aiming at with DD, though over time I've come to think that it probably works best for smaller, day-to-day things like correcting bad habits and reducing carelessness or small inconsiderate acts.
There also was, from the beginning, a strong desire for accountability and penance. Although that motivation is closely linked to behavior modification, given that being held accountable for bad behavior would make that behavior less likely to recur, they aren’t quite the same thing; there are times I have an almost overwhelming need to feel consequences imposed, even if the underlying behavior was very unlikely to recur with or without the spanking.
Accountability, consequences, and penance, are different words for the desire to “clean the slate” by paying a price for bad behavior.
Looking back, that need to have the slate wiped clean via some uncomfortable price was something I thought about mostly in terms of its emotional benefit for me.
But, I knew DD could and sometimes did serve a similar function for my wife, which can be described straightforwardly: payback.
Early on, we did talk about DD as giving Anne more control and allowing her to express her displeasure in a concrete way, but we now more straightforwardly acknowledge that a big part of the motivation for DD, from her perspective, is simply payback; I’ve done something negative to her, and she’s returning the favor and then some.
Closely related to payback, to the point that they probably are the same thing, is punishment. In criminal law, there’s a lot of debate about whether the purpose is deterrence (behavior modification) or simply punishment, which I think of as something designed to condemn certain behaviors and to inflict that condemnation on the person who did it, with any modification of future behavior being more or less irrelevant. It’s a form of balancing the scales, but from the perspective of society or the one harmed.
Punishment spankings are, as I said, probably indistinguishable from payback. In our relationship, they're most likely to be given when Anne feels particularly wronged or, perhaps, feels that others have been wronged and she's acting as their avenger. In those cases, behavior modification is either irrelevant or is, at most, a byproduct. The goal is, instead, on making me pay a price in pure pain and suffering for something I've done to her or others.
Another possible motivation, one that sometimes seems hard to reconcile with discipline, is excitement.
I definitely do not get excited by the spanking itself. I am not a masochist. I do not enjoy pain, and a disciplinary spanking is pure pain. But, I do get excited from the dynamic itself and from the anticipation of her spanking me, though over time I've come to appreciate that the excitement, for me, is more about her taking control of me in a very forceful way.
I think it's similar for Anne. In the past, she denied that she got excited while giving a spanking. I'm not sure that's true anymore. But, in any case, for a long time she has acknowledged that she enjoys the feeling of power she gets in ordering the spanking and in watching me get prepared for one. She likes bending me to her will and watching me comply with something that I really do not want to happen.
Finally, although part of my pitch to Anne for adopting DD was that it would help balance the relationship by empowering her and disempowering me, I think that has become a more central part of the motivation over time, particularly for her.
And, over time I think the goal has morphed from wanting to balance or equalize the relationship to a conscious desire to make the relationship less equal by elevating Anne’s authority. These days, there is a substantial emphasis on DD serving the purpose of, as Garageswats says, putting my wife in charge.
In fact, at times it feels like my original ordering of motivations has been flipped on its head. Originally, elevating her in the hierarchy was a means to the end of causing me to change my behavior. Now, it’s more of an end in itself, with the behavior change being more like a good, but not wholly necessary, byproduct.
What about you? To what extent is your primary motivation for practicing DD modifying behavior? If not that, what is it? Has it changed over time? Does it serve one purpose for you and some other purpose for your partner?
I hope you have a great week.
That is quite a complex question because in my case the original reason for suggesting DD to my wife was primarily for me to explore my lifelong fantasies around spanking. I used the ‘behaviour modification’ and ‘appropriate balancing punishment’ in pitching DD benefits for her. It took her some time and a significant increase in severity for her to actually believe & see those benefits.
ReplyDeleteSo in many ways it was a ‘be careful what you wish for’ as initially I had no real concept of how painful a real spanking would be and how difficult submitting would be, not just to the increasingly painful spankings but also to a set of modified behaviours and controls.
I still find the thoughts of being spanked, others being spanked and the whole dynamic exciting but the physical acts of receiving said punishment is painful, uncomfortable and something I paradoxically strive to avoid.
And there is no question that overall my behaviour has improved, my respect for her increased and our relationship is more stable. My wife would agree but says there is some way to go…. TB
"I had no real concept of how painful a real spanking would be and how difficult submitting would be, not just to the increasingly painful spankings but also to a set of modified behaviours and controls."
DeleteAfter 20+ years of exploring this, there is *still* a big gap between how I think about the pain of a spanking and the actual experience. It is always so, so, so much worse than the way it plays in my mind.
It's also true for me complying with controls on behavior is very hard at the time it is happening, especially when it comes to things I might not personally care about or that involve things like how I express myself and the content of what I say to others. Some of that strikes very close to the image I've had of myself for my entire life.
Again, my situation here may be very different for most of the readers. I came out of a 24/7 FLR and knew what I wanted. I knew I needed direction and correction and convinced a good spanking was best to accomplish both. I explained all this to my now current Dominant Mistress/Life Partner. She seemed to understand and assured me she knew how to run a DD household. I guess it could be said most of the spankings were not behavior modification, but rather a continuance of maintaining the submissive behavior I was used to. Of course there were adjustments and my learning to do things 'her' way and believe me enough spankings were given under this context.
ReplyDeleteI agree with the difference between punishment and behavior modification. She handles this in her manner. When I commit an offense, I am punished for the act itself AND added swats to be sure it is not committed again. She spanks me for the offense, pauses and asks if I have learned the lesson? I always answer 'Yes Ma'am' and she replies, well, let's be sure and spanks me more. One could easily determine the first part of the spanking was punishment for the act and the added was intended to modify my future behavior.
"I explained all this to my now current Dominant Mistress/Life Partner. She seemed to understand and assured me she knew how to run a DD household." Although women probably all have different native capabilities for DD, it is interesting how some just seem to "get it", even if they started from a pretty vanilla place. I know others will disagree, but I personally think it's because "running a DD household" isn't very different from how simply "running a household" would have been for many mothers in, say, the 50s and 60s, but adding spanking privileges over the husband into the mix. I have a very strong reaction to stories and memes in which it's commented on that the wife spanks the husband just like he's one of the kids, and I do think that one reason some women take to DD so easily is because, at it's core, it's not much more than extending the kind of maternal authority that has existed over generations to the husband as well.
DeleteWe started off our relationship with my taking her to wittness me getting a spanking from a professional dom. She had never heard of adult consentual spanking, so it seemed like a good idea to expose her to it, as I knew F/M spanking was something I needed in a relationship. She not only got to watch me, she wanted to experience getting a spanking herself, and the dom was happy to spank her also. She soon became a very proficent spanker, and it became a part of our relationship. Like Dan, I knew there was some unacceptable behavior that needed to change, but never considered an actual DD relationship, and didn't know much about DD until I started reading this blog. The idea of giving her the authority to punish me for bad behavior was too much for a while, but slowly became more and more appealing. After a few years, we started down that road. The main issue that contributed to my impulsive behavior was my excessive drinking, along with my rebelous attitude, so we agreed that she would spank me whenever I exceeded our agreed upon limit. This resulted in my getting numerous hard spankings for a few years, and eventually proved to help me alter my drinking. She became more assertive after her success with that, and eventually came up with a list of spankable offenses. Unlike Annie, she doesn't get off on spanking, but she does enjoy having the power to insist on having certain things done her way. She likes doing a check in every week, and that will often, but not always, include a spanking. We both continue to enjoy the intimacy that we get from DD.
ReplyDelete"She not only got to watch me, she wanted to experience getting a spanking herself, and the dom was happy to spank her also." That is one thing Anne has shown precisely zero interest in. She is very clear that spanking in our relationship is, and will always be, totally one-way.
DeleteBeing spanked for a reason, being held accountable, and needing boundaries are all important and necessary for me. For her, she simply enjoys the physical experience of getting a spanking, which she enjoys as for play. So, the motivations for the kinds of spankings we want are very different, as are the spankings. When I spank her, it is only with my hand, and I try to warm her up slowly. My goal is to give her a sensual, pleasant experience, and she will let me know what she wants. She can tell me to spank harder, slow down, or whatever she desires. When I spank her, it is always loving, spontaneous, and playful. When she spanks me, the spankings are real, and much harder. I have no control about how long or hard it will be, unless she asks me if I need more. She uses 2 wooden paddles, one of which is bamboo with holes in it, which she uses at the end of the spanking to cut through the numbness, which it does a good job of. The photo she takes of me after a spanking usually shows a very red and wrinkled bottom.
DeleteIn the beginning it was about behavior modification and punishment for being insensitive. Not long ago I tried to take back authority in our relationship and she made it very clear that she would never go back to the way things were when she felt bullied by me to conform to what I wanted. She takes it want into consideration but she makes the final decision. The more I thought about it the more I realized that's the only way! I want her to be happy and I was ignoring what she wanted but that's no longer acceptable and raising my voice will end up with a spanking. She has not been able to spank me but I have a really serious hard spanking coming for raising my voice recently so it will be payback
ReplyDeleteI don't think I've ever been tempted to "take back authority" per se, except maybe to the extent that means authority over myself. And, in truth, there's never been a time that I saw myself, or had any desire to be, *the* authority in the relationship. There was a time where, in practice, I probably took up more space in the relationship be virtue of work and travel and things revolving around my career because it was what supported us. But, that was never part of some desire for me to be at the top of the hierarchy.
DeleteBut, in terms of whether I would ever try to "take back authority" to become more independent, dropping the whole DD and power-differential aspects of the relationship, we've hit this point where I think she would be at least as resistant to that as I would have been in the past. That's not to mean she would ever insist on it in a way that was truly non-consensual. But, I think there would be relationship choices presented or that would be inherent in things going forward. There's a paragraph in the DWC story "Even More" that talks about the ability to walk away. It reads, in part:
"Susan had told him that he could opt out of the arrangement at any time if he had truly decided it was not for him after all. But she would not go back and forth with it, playing games. He either wanted to be a disciplined husband, or he didn't. She would not leave him over his decision to cancel their contract, but neither would she remain in a relationship with constant bickering and arguing. If he did not choose to have her impose discipline on him, he would have to find a way to become self-disciplined."
We are full FLR now! I made a huge mistake and manipulated her to get my way. The whole deal went sideways and we missed out on an opportunity both of us wanted. I felt terrible it was all my fault. If she had stuck to her instinct instead of being pushed into something she wasn't sure she wanted by me we would have been way better off. We talked about it when it happened and I told her how sorry I was but we both knew that it would happen again and the only chance to prevent it was some severe consequences. I was put over her lap and paddled while she lectured me about it not happening again. I was crying real tears not from the pain but because I was truly sorry.. I was sent to the corner until I was able to stop crying then we had a long talk about her putting some guard rails in to to prevent it from happening again. I had to stand in the corner for an hour tonight and got another spanking before bed. I hope this helps me change this behavior in the future. I really screwed up
DeleteSounds like a great--if very painful--development!
DeleteWard, just out of curiosity, what was the big mistake that was made. Is it something you can reveal here? I do envy a bit of your relationship. I would wonder what a true FLR relationship would feel like. I would like to know if it would have a positive change on me, or would I build resentment towards my wife. Unfortunately, I will never know because my wife wants me to lead. We have a typical marriage except for DD. I wish I had met her in my mid twenties. I truly believe FLR could have benefited me then. My wife is a bit older than I am and I’ve always been attracted to older females. I find that they know what they want and seem to ignore the BS for the most part. Dan post some incredible pics of older women who I find incredibly sexy.
DeleteT
I manipulated her into signing a contract on a home i thought I wanted only to see our dream home but we couldn't put in an offer because the contact i pushed her into and someone else bought our dream home in the meantime. It's not the first time I have manipulated her into a decision we both regretted. She has spanked me multiple times that day to make it clear that it will never happen again. I am to be the precived leader but I am her husband and never allowed to make the final decision. At home I obey her and do most of the work inside and outside. We are retired but now I have to do her bidding our suffer the consequences. To be honest while I don't always like the punishments and chores it has made our marriage unbreakable. I'm still struggling at times to trust her judgment but she has great instincts and has never made a bad decision unless I pushed her into it. My love for her is beyond description.
Delete"I would wonder what a true FLR relationship would feel like. I would like to know if it would have a positive change on me, or would I build resentment towards my wife."
DeleteI think it can do both. I don't consider us to be an FLR, but we've had moments where it feels sort of "FLR-lite". And, in some of those cases, where she was most in control and was laying down lines that I didn't agree with at that time, there definitely was some resentment. In a couple of cases, it lasted more than a week or two. But, I also eventually got her point. The conundrum with any real hierarchy like FLR is that, if it's real and if you aren't someone who just gets off on being bossed around, it's inevitably going to push some buttons and you're going to feel resentment in the short term.
Although I wasn't even aware of DD at the time, I definitely had a thing for older women from at least high school, and I now do think some of that was gravitating toward females who either had authority or sort of exuded that kind of vibe. And, given how out of control I often felt in my late teens and throughout my 20s, I too think I probably could have profited from an FLR-like relationship back then. And, I don't know but sort of suspect that an older woman with a strong personality could have imposed one on me.
When we started DD it was mostly for correcting my poor behaviour Iand also to balance the scales more and give her more authority.
ReplyDeleteThat has mostly been accomplished as now I am more aware of the things that bother her and try to avoid doing them , and these days I'd say the scales are actually more weighted in her favour as she is pretty good at issuing orders and keeping me in line.
I believe she enjoys having DD as an option at her disposal even though she doesn't use it as much as she is very preferring verbal correction.
For me DD was a therapeutic release when we first started by letting her take charge and me submitting.
That's not the case since we retired but I do get a charge out of her being able to spank if she wishes..
I believe she enjoys delivering a good spanking as she seems to pick and choose when and for what and she is always very pleased with herself afterwards.
"For me DD was a therapeutic release when we first started by letting her take charge and me submitting. That's not the case since we retired but I do get a charge out of her being able to spank if she wishes."
DeleteI might have thought your second sentence applied to us too, but after this medically-induced hiatus from DD, I'm not as sure that retirement really reduced my need for someone else to take control. I think that when I was working that need to be controlled as a counter-balance to always being in control in my career probably was stronger. But, when I've noticed over the last three months is my mind lapsing back into some old negative patterns, though it may be matter of subconsciously trying to be more assertive and independent in a situation where I was pretty confined and dependent. But, in any case, it convinced me that DD and Anne taking more control have played a role in keeping my mental state in a good place in a way that is separate and apart from retirement
While DD has corrected a lot of my faults, or at least made me more conscious about them , we are starting to add new ones.
DeleteThe most recent one is the amount of time I spend on her phone which really irks here , although I don't find it that bad.
So I agreed to put a daily cap which she will be monitoring weekly.So far I'm finding it hard to stay below so I'll find out this weekend how I do.
DD started out as a need for me to be held accountable for my actions. I actually craved the no nonsense discipline I received growing up. Whether it was my Mother, teacher, or friends Mothers, when we were out of line, we were strapped or paddled. I initially did not know how to bring it to my wife’s attention. We dabbled in erotic spanking that turned to much harder spankings given to me. Similar to Dan, when we were in bed and it was dark, I confessed to her my need to be held accountable. Due to my desire to be spanked, I hate the word “fetsih”, she didn’t initially believe it would change my attitude or behavior. After some serious strappings, she noticed improved behavior on my part and my affection for her grew. Initially, I don’t believe she got off on giving a thrashing, but overtime that has since changed. I do believe it’s therapeutic for her. Contrary to belief, I don’t enjoy a discipline spanking, they hurt like hell. I do enjoy my wife putting me back in my place. I appreciate her corrective ways. When we are on a hiatus, my attitude is poor and she does take notice. A few days ago, she noticed I was being curt with her. She looked at me and said you need a good thrashing. It’s been a while given some minor health issues on both of our parts, but she is correct, it’s long overdue. She hates when I get animated and raise my voice. So this is an area I want to improve on. I’ve explained to her that would be the perfect time to administer serious discipline. Similar to some wives, she forgets it at that time.
ReplyDeleteT
"I actually craved the no nonsense discipline I received growing up. Whether it was my Mother, teacher, or friends Mothers, when we were out of line, we were strapped or paddled." I think it may be because I didn't get a lot of no nonsense discipline, BUT I saw it all around me via teachers, friends' mothers, etc., that the archetype of strict female discipline was maybe buried somewhere deep in my psyche, and came roaring back up after I found the DWC.
DeleteI also don't like the word "fetish" as applied to most, though not all, people who are into DD. Some clearly do have a spanking fetish and end up spreading a thin veneer of discipline and accountability on top of it, but many others have an attraction to accountability, boundaries, etc., and spanking is wrapped up in it. I know my own interest doesn't check any of the boxes associated with a true fetish.
Most definitions of Fetish and Kink would look similar to this one ‘ A kink is a broad term for any non-traditional sexual preference or activity outside mainstream social norms. A fetish is highly specific—it is a sexual fixation on an inanimate object or body part that must be present for arousal or orgasm to occur’.
DeleteI don’t particularly feel aligned to either word as for as long as I can remember, spanking has had an arousing effect on me but it is in no way necessary. DD which I discovered quite late ( late 40s) has provided an expert for my spanking interest but has also given so much more in terms of behaviour and relationship improvement. TB
Same here re: not feeling aligned to either term. I've gotten a little more comfortable referring to my DD interest as a "kink", but the term doesn't come close to matching the scope of the "why" for this kind of relationship choice.
DeleteWhen we first started practicing DD, I really did need accountability and boundaries, but that was a while ago, and things have changed. When we first got together I drank a lot more, was often "animated", and took a lot of unnecessary risks on motorcycles. Now all that has changed, and I no longer feel the need for accountability. So, I would have to say DD has made me a much more sensative partner. I am never rude to her, we don't argue, and we give each other lots of space to be who we are. She doesn't have a dominating personality, but she does like to have things done her way. I am happy to go along with pretty much whatever she wants, and we get along great. I guess I do have a spanking fetish, as I still think about spanking every day, and get grumpy and / or anxious when I go too long without a spanking. Fortunately, she understands this, and makes sure I am spanked often enough. Spanking is similar to making love for me, and is usually an intimate experience for both of us.
DeleteI also don't feel aligned to either word but I suppose fetish is really what it is.
DeleteI like your comment "Spanking is similar to making love" I feel the same way in fact I told her the other day I would almost rather have a spanking over her lap because she is the aggressor and is showing how much she loves me by correcting me. I also get anxious and in-secure if I go too long without a spanking. For a long time she was not able to spank me due to a health issue but that is behind us and she has begun a new time of training me to be a better husband and I am punished every time I dont live up to her expectations even for very small infractions. It's not always a spanking because if it was she would be completely exhausted. I spend a lot of time in the corner reflecting on my failures and how to build the good habits she expects from me like always opening the door for her and taking care of her needs every day. I am spanked if a behavior continues to repeat itself but im spanked every time I argue with her even if it's over something small. I got paddled last night for arguing with her about where to turn when we were going somewhere. It was a silly argument but arguing will get me spanked every time even if I apologize immediately after realizing that I was arguing with her. I'm glad she does because in the past it has been the one thing most dangerous to our marriage. The intimacy of being naked over he lap getting spanked is something I cherish more than sex because frankly we are getting older and getting us on the same page is harder than it used to be, but we are definitely on the same page when she is putting me in my place and reminding me that she is the boss now not me.
We are in our late 70s our dd started more than 50 years ago. It started after I acted out at a family event and Miss C’s mom confronted me and after I acknowledged my rude comments accepted and pretty shocking spanking. It was intended as behavior modification and it worked. Miss C was after I acknowledged what had happened started strapping me. Over the years there were brief moments where it was part of sex , but for decades now it’s purely punishment.
ReplyDeleteWe are also in our late 70s, and still going strong. She was a bit grumpy and impatient this morning, and we were both thinking we probably need some space. After a few hours of us doing our own activities, she interupted me from the book I was reading to inform me I had broken a rule and she ordered me in the bedroom for a spanking. It wasn't a long spanking, but it was quite hard, and it definitely changed the energy between us for the better. I was impressed with her confidence to exert her authority, and hope it happens more often. It occurred to me that this (how spanking can change the energy) might be a possibility for a future post, so I am just tossing it out there.
ReplyDeleteNorton: What you describe reminds me very much of what Aunt Kay wrote long ago in her Tips and Methods essay:
Delete""You [and you husband] will . . . discover how a simple discipline session can act as a pressure release valve for both of you!"
Aunt Kay certainly had the experience to approach such questions from ALL of the relevant angles.