“The cave you fear to enter holds the treasure you seek” – Joseph Campbell
Hello all. Welcome back to The Disciplinary Couple’s Club. Our weekly on-line gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, a Domestic Discipline relationship.
I hope you all had a good week. Mine was pretty quiet, which I think I kind of needed. This has been a tough year on many levels, including my physical resilience. I felt like maybe a week off, hanging out mostly by myself and not doing much beyond hikes with the dogs, helped me gain a little ground back on that front.
It also felt like the participation on the blog ticked up a little, which is a great thing, even if it’s still a little quieter than I'd prefer. It’s not just about having a good discussion on a discreet topic. Rather, I’m not sure readers fully appreciate how much I rely on one week’s discussions to provide good launching points for discussions the following week. It’s why I’m supportive (within reason) of people meandering from the official topic, because it’s often those departures from the main topic that give me ideas for future topics. Even if a topic has been done to death, a reader comment may suggest a new angle or point of approach.
It's also interesting how we each bring our own perspectives to something as simple as a spanking meme or piece of spanking content. Two weeks ago, I was surprised at how much meaning ZM managed to extract from a fairly simple audio series on Tumbler. Last week, it was Glenmore seeing the picture of three guys drinking juxtaposed with three wives holding spanking implements as involving the three guys knowing they would be spanked but choosing to throw caution to the wind. On the other hand, I took it to be three guys with alcohol-related amnesia regarding the likelihood they would get spanked. In retrospect, Glenmore's interpretation does seem more viable, but it is still interesting how much we each read into simple memes and pics.
So, I appreciate
those who jump in and participate, even if the official topic doesn’t resonate
that much with them. Even if it's simply providing your own spin on one of the drawings or memes.
In that vein, one of the comments that did resonate with me last week came from Jackson, and it involved his reaction to his wife’s increasing strictness and the increasingly severe spankings she delivers when he disobeys her:
“I have been in a pretty strict FLR/DD with Lauren for almost 3 years, and I have noticed that in just the last 8 months or so that I almost never misbehave or break rules in Her presence. As the spankings have become more and more severe (as She has become very comfortable with causing pain and leaving marks) I am quite honestly afraid of Her. I know on one level that I need and have earned the Discipline when it is delivered, I Do Not want to provoke it.
In that same comment, he qualified a bit what he meant by being “afraid of Her.”
Her Discipline has always been real and severe, but there are some sessions that stand out and have truly changed my view of Her. Don’t get me wrong I don’t go around in fear of Her all the time, but I have gained the perspective of having a very healthy respect for what I know she is capable of doing and especially what I don’t know about how far She will go.
A few months ago, I copied down a comment from ZM, which also addressed the topic of fear and its role in DD. Although the specific topic it addressed was caning and whether the cane is truly among the most fearsome instruments, his observations about fear and spanking were more general and included:
One common thread that I have noticed this week among commenters and our early exposure to spanking is the word "fear." Most of us were somewhere between being somewhat scared of being spanked and being terrified. While each couple's DD or FLR relationship varies, over the years I have mostly heard that we are not particularly afraid of upcoming spankings. We might feel some butterflies in our stomach or something like that, but not the deep knot of fear. There are many reasons that we are not necessarily as afraid of being spanked as adults, including but certainly not limited to:
- more emotional maturity
- more ability to see things from a wider perspective
- higher pain thresholds
- less humiliation or embarrassment (due to the generally private nature of adult spankings)
- more feeling of control (since even consensual non-consent is still consensual, and we COULD always stop it if we wanted to)
- a whole lifetime of experience telling us we will survive
and so on and so on...
Whatever the reason, our wives might be able to command respect, but not necessarily instill immediate, real fear. As CalSpanking mentioned a few weeks ago, many of us who are wanting this are at least partly motivated by wanting to feel strong emotions. There is nothing that is stronger than fear. Sometimes, the thing I want (and at the same time don't want) the most is to feel that visceral fear that spanking used to instill in me. I think that is at least part of what makes me want the humiliation of having witnesses so much, because I am afraid of that.
I was thinking about Jackson and ZM’s comments in light of my own recent desires to crank up the intensity of our DD relationship, meaning I’m going through one of my not infrequent phases in which I (think I) want her to be much more strict and severe, similar to what Jackson describes.
And, yes, I am aware of the very big "be careful what you wish for . . ." danger where strictness is concerned. Yet, that doesn't stop me from wanting to experience it.
Does a desire to feel a stronger sense of fear or anxiety play a role in that?
I think it does.
Maybe it’s about, as ZM alluded to, a desire for strong emotions in general; fear being among the strongest of emotions. That’s possible. I do think that I sometimes have an outsized desire to feel things intensely, even “negative” feelings.
ZM’s comments also suggest that there is something fundamentally different about the feelings aroused by adult spankings, no matter how severe, as compared to what some of us experienced as kids.
I’m not sure I fully agree with that one. Perhaps it’s because I came upon the concept of DD so suddenly and unexpectedly when I stumbled upon the DWC, but I have very distinct memories about the nature and intensity of the feelings it caused to roil up within me.
It wasn’t subtle in the
least, and part of it was definitely fear-based. So much so that it took about three days for
me to build up the courage to broach the subject with my wife. Not because I thought she would reject the
idea. To the contrary, while there was a lot of ambivalence, I think I probably was more concerned that she would NOT reject
it. I had instantly become obsessed with
the idea of getting a “real” adult spanking along the lines of what Aunt Kay
described in her Tips & Methods session, yet part of the obsession lay in
acknowledging how bad the “real” spankings she described seemed to be. I was obsessed with it, to the point that I could not NOT bring it up to Anne, but that's not quite the same thing as "wanting" it.
Although it’s hard to remember how I felt when a spanking was coming (or I thought one was coming) when I was a kid, I’m not sure the fear involved in the prospect of a real adult spanking was all that much less than what I experienced back then. At least, not the fear or anxiety I felt when we first started down this DD path.
In fact, I think one aspect was probably even more fearsome for me, i.e. the possibility of losing emotional control, culminating in real crying.
When we are kids, crying from spanking—or from any significant physical pain—was simply expected. Although it might have added to the embarrassment, it wasn’t like your spanked peers didn’t cry from a spanking, or perhaps even from the mere threat of one. Even if it happened with others present, the embarrassment factor probably wasn't as strong, because it wasn't that uncommon and the role of parents and kids made surrendering to the whole thing more palatable in the sense that ego wasn't as tied up in it as much.
As an adult—particularly an adult male—it’s different. The spankings I receive today are much, much harder than anything I received as a kid. Yet, when I came upon the DWC, it wasn't really the severity of the spanking that obsessed me so much.
It was more about the fact that the wives were imposing them whether the husband agreed or not and, even more so that it often seemed to result in full-blown sobbing tears. The tears depicted in the DWC stories weren't unlike those experienced in childhood spankings, but the context was very, very different in terms of the ego hit involved.
Turns out, being spanked like a child when you are a one is very different than being spanked like a child when are an adult.
The context is so obviously different. And, unlike when we were kids, it isn't a context shared by our peers. We experience getting spanked for being bad. As far as we know, they do not. Further, as kids, most of us were in the same boat; there was a certain egalitarianism in knowing pretty much everyone got spanked from time to time. As a disciplined husband in this modern era, however, we are usually the only one in our household who gets spanked.
In short, there are all sorts of ego and embarrassment issues associated with being spanked as an adult that weren’t in play to the same extent as a kid, including especially for me, the prospect of crying in front of my wife as a direct result of her exercise of authority over me.
For me, the embarrassment surrounding the very prospect of being spanked to tears seems to be way more about the exercise of authority—and my submission to it—than about the pain of the spanking. In fact, I think one reason I reacted so strongly to some of the DWC stories was because tears were not just a byproduct, they often were the wife's stated goal. I've used this spanking meme a lot over the years, because it summarizes how those stories made me feel: being spanked to tears is embarrassing, but being spanked to tears because the person spanking you told you to cry is so much more so.
As ZM’s bullet-list suggested, as adults we DO have higher pain thresholds. Or, at least we’ve been socialized to react less dramatically to physical pain. But, the opposite is true with respect to control and power hierarchies. As kids, we are expected to surrender to authority. Perhaps that’s another reason why there is less embarrassment and shame when being spanked as a kid – surrender was natural and expected, including the demonstration of surrender involved in full-blown tears.
As an adult, however, we’ve been socialized that surrender is equated with weakness or with being lower in a relevant power hierarchy. Our egos—or at least mine—rebel more at overt displays of surrender to someone else’s authority than at giving in to physical pain.
Another way to articulate the distinction might be that, for me, being "disciplined" is more fear-based than merely being spanked, because the former involves someone else setting rules for me, someone else holding me accountable, someone else making me do or not do what they want. I'm not sure I was really aware of it at that time, but I now think it was that real change in the power hierarchy that caused me such fear when I first read the DWC stories, and the hierarchy change was most embodied in the wife being so thoroughly empowered as to cause real sobbing tears.
So, for me it’s not quite true that adult spankings entailed none of the fear involved in being spanked as a kid. In the earliest days of our DD experimentation, I think I did experience something similar to that degree of fear, and perhaps with an even stronger fear around losing all emotional control and crying hard from a spanking.
What changed over time is that I came to realize how unlikely I was to cry from even very severe adult spankings. Paradoxically, I suspect the same fear that I might surrender to the whole situation and cry during a spanking is exactly what keeps me from actually doing so. Twenty years into this thing we do, I think I’m still so resistant to the embarrassment of letting myself go in that way that I can’t bring myself to do it, despite the fact I’m still more or less fascinated by the prospect.
So, when Jackson talks about being afraid of his wife, I get the perverse attraction to it, and for me the attraction lies in his characterization of how the fear lies in not knowing how far she might go.
For me, the “how far” isn’t really about the pain level itself. It’s more about the level of control and strictness. It’s about the ego threat that would be inherent in her really assuming the maternal role we talk about; a role that is more or less limitless in its authority.
I don’t really fear the pain of being spanked more often, but I do fear the emotional challenge that would result from her really tightening the reins and challenging my autonomy much more consistently than she has to date. What I fear isn't so much frequency or severity but, rather, the prospect of her spanking me more frequently and more severely because she has decided on her own that she wants to spank me more often for more things that she cares about, whether I do or not.
Though, that fear does include that at some point she might simply announce that she wants me to cry, expects me to cry, and will prolong a session (with as many breaks as necessary to get around any numbing), until I finally do cry. Honestly, after twenty years, the prospect of that kind of emotional surrender still scares the hell out of me.
So, in that sense, I am still very much afraid of being spanked, and I am still perversely attracted to the idea of having a “healthy fear” of my wife.
How about you? What role, if any, does fear have in your DD
relationship? Do you genuinely fear being spanked by your wife? Or, are there other aspects of being a husband in a DD or FLR relationship that scare you?
Do you feel like behavior improvement requires a certain amount of fear? Do you feel that spankings need to be hard enough to make you feel genuine fear, or at least strong anxiety, about her spanking you again in the future?
Do you feel a healthy fear of your wife or of her authority? If so, do you find that fear to be attractive or something you want her to consciously cultivate?
A couple of notes regarding the pics/drawings I chose for this week’s post. First, I usually mostly use pictures depicting males as the disciplinary recipient. However, in my collection spanning thousands of pics, drawings, and spanking memes, those in which a male has a facial expression approximating anything like real fear or anxiety are few and far between. So, when illustrating "fear" as I intended in this post, I was forced to use more drawings where the person about to get a spanking was a female.
Second, although I find myself increasingly turned
off by AI-generated spanking “drawings”, I had recently downloaded a few in
which the subject about to be spanked looked very fearful/anxious about what
was about to happen. But, again, the
subject was female.
I hope you have a great week.
I love that last image and caption. "We're been friends a long time..." I can imagine it being said at a DWC gathering.
ReplyDeleteSounds like she could be a ''surrogate' spanker who spanks him at the request of his wife .
DeleteYeah, I've wanted to use that one for a while, possibly a post re: spankings by non-spouses including friends. But, it was also one of the first I found when searching my collection for something emphasizing that spankings have to be severe enough to make the recipient afraid to repeat the behavior.
DeleteShe sure does look like she's laying that brush on with some venom!
DeleteYes, she does.
DeleteI'd say I have a healthy fear as I can shudder when I hear her voice in that stern tone which indicates I may be in trouble and immediately wonder what I have done wrong if it's not immediately apparent.
ReplyDeleteIt doesn't always result in a spanking, in fact most times it doesn"t, but it still scares the life out of me and makes me jump.
It's pretty rare that I don't know exactly what I did to get in trouble!
DeleteDon't worry she is very quick to remind me if I don't remember !I'm sure Anne is as well.
DeleteWhen Dev goes into disiplinary mode I am definitely more nerveous. I know the spanking will be much harder and longer than usual. JR
DeleteJR, what distinguishes her going into disciplinary mode from something that would less hard and shorter?
DeleteI have never feared the pain of being spanked by my wife because she doesn’t spank severely enough to make me afraid. I have sometimes tried to communicate to her that I would like her to spank in a way that would make me afraid. But I don’t think I have ever given her reason to think harder spankings would be more effective. That’s because I respond to her spanking threats the same way I would if I was afraid. Sometimes I think I should be rebellious in order to provoke her to be harsher, but I can’t do it. Maybe I am motivated by shame rather than fear. Or maybe it would be more accurate to say that I am motivated by the fear of shame.
ReplyDeleteDoug
I get the temptation toward intentionally acting out, or "bratting", but I agree it's not a good thing to do. better to have an honest conversation about what you need/want.
DeleteFear of shame is a powerful motivator for some.
Hi Doug,
DeleteIt is probably just as well that you haven't went down the "harder and harder" spankings rabbit hole. In the end, all spankings hurt at the time, at least those that are more than a light slap on the butt or two. The only difference is how long the intense pain continues - which is determined by duration of the spanking balanced against numbing - and whether there is any persistent soreness afterwards, which is the result of bruising.
While I do think that there is some difference in the amount of "impact" between a severe spanking and a mild one can have, the true emotional impact of the experience comes from the temporary loss of status, feelings of shame for what you have done or embarrassment for having to be spanked like a child (or in the event of tears or outright sobbing it might be more reacting like a child). And quite frankly, harder spankings probably don't make much of a difference in any of these, including the whole causing tears one.
-ZM
Dan, I agree with you that “bratting” isn’t good. I think that it would make a joke of the whole idea of DD.
DeleteZM, I think you have explained very well the psychological dynamics of mild spanking that depends on shame rather than fear of pain. I suppose that my wife consciously wields shame as a motivator because she scold in a way that increases my sense of shame. Nevertheless, I often feel jealous of guys here whose wives spank harshly the way women do in my fantasies. Sometimes I almost have impostor syndrome, feeling like I don’t really belong in the disciplined hubbies club, because I don’t get spanked the same way other guys here do.
Doug
Although ZM and I usually agree with each other to such an extent that we've pondered whether we are brothers separated at birth, I don't quite agree that harder spankings don't have a bigger "impact" on behavior or aren't more punitive. I got a spanking earlier this week that was excruciating, probably because it had been many weeks since I'd gotten one. Even though I didn't really agree with with Anne on the behavior that put me over her knee, the spanking was so painful that it would make me think seriously about that behavior, in a way that I don't think would really be true if it had been much milder. I guess another way of putting it would be that although I agree about not going down the "harder and harder" rathole, I do think that for many of us there is some minimum amount of pain that needs to be generated for it to feel punitive or like real discipline.
DeleteIn terms of membership in the club, I've always left the door to it open to anyone whose aspiration is to be in a relationship that involves using real spankings for real punishment. It's more about the desire and the intent than whether you're getting those desires met in real life. It's sometimes a tough line to draw. I'm not interested in expanding "the club" to just general spanko lifestyle including people who really aren't doing disciplinary spankings at all but, rather, are just into funishment. I want this to be a resource for people who are genuinely into that niche that is DWC-style relationships. I'm looking for participation that reflects that interest, ideally by people who are thoughtful and want to share the whys and hows of that interest; it's not confined to those who are "living the dream". There are oftentimes I don't feel like I'M living the dream in terms of fully exploring this lifestyle to the same extent others have.
I have a thing for women in dresses and panty hose. The women in the white and the caption really hits home for me. I was often punished after church. There is nothing sexier to me than a women, dressed to the nines, wearing a hot dress w hose on.
ReplyDeleteMy first girlfriend used to wear a jean skirt with hose on or long flowing dresses. Church girls always wore panty hose. On to the topic, I don’t fear my wife at all. My wife spanks long and hard and I’m aware of when I screw up. When she tells me I’m getting thrashed, I get a pit in my stomach. If I have an erection when she takes my pants down, it’s not long before it’s gone. She can clearly tell I’m not enjoying the thrashing. I’m wriggling about and sweating by the time she is finished. I do not like disappointing her, but we are men and we often tend to screw up. I don’t fear the severity of it either. When I screwed up last week, she was angry and I received the switch. I don’t think she could have thrashed me any harder. I deserved it and it hurt like hell. A few days later, I was extremely turned on by her putting me in my place. I’m right with you Dan, on being turned off by the whole AI thing.
T
Glad you liked that one. I'm a little more into daily wear being sexy, but I definitely can see how you'd come to associate spankings after church with an attraction to women in dresses and hose. Church is connected to spanking memories for me, too. The "cry room" in the back was both a place to take infants so their crying didn't disturb others, was well as a place to take older kids for several swats to get them to behave during a long, boring service.
Delete"I deserved it and it hurt like hell. A few days later, I was extremely turned on by her putting me in my place." I got spanked last night for the incident regarding throwing away some product boxes. Did I "deserve" it? It depends a lot on how you think of disobedience as an independent offense. I still believe that the boxes should have been thrown out ,though I should have been more careful to check whether there were still things like instructions and charging cords in them. Anne was angry about the carelessness, but I still believe the real issue is she was pissed off because I threw away something of hers without asking. Which I get, but it's also the simple truth that I throw out things without asking because if I do ask, she almost *always* comes up with some reason why something has to be kept or, better yet, "donated", which really means it moves from one part of our house to a staging area for taking it to a donation center, then it stays there for more weeks or months. Basically, my habit of throwing things out without asking is in reaction to her even worse habit of turning out house into a clutter repository. On the other hand, if you treat disobedience itself as "deserving" a spanking, then I clearly did deserve it, because I do know how she feels about me throwing things out. I ran the risk of doing something I know she gets angry about, and my ass paid the price.
My wife want way to talk to ACTUAL wives She is strongly interested but feels the need to have other women to talk with....can anyone help? renisalive@yahoo.com
ReplyDeleteHappy to chat with her. I can get back to her using that email address.
DeleteL.
L
DeleteEarlier you mentioned that some of your husband's friends knew you spanked him. Did any of them get spanked by their wives? Did you ever discuss this with any of them, or with a wife? Would you have been willing to spank any of them?
I got an error message when I emailed this email address. Can you confirm it?
DeleteL.
Like Dan, I don't fear her or dread the spankings, in fact I readily acknowledge my need for them. When we first began our DD journey, and I needed her to be really strict to help me reduce my alcohol consumption, I was more afraid of her hard spankings. That was something she was really invested in, and she prevailed. Now, however, I seem to be more concerned with "be careful what you wish for" in terms of encouraging her to be more demanding about what she really wants, which could easily put limitations on my freedom.
ReplyDeleteAgreed -- for me the potential limitations on freedom are both the most powerful and the most fear-inducing.
DeleteFor me, my wife putting real limitations on my freedom, as irksome as that can be, has always been part of the erotic allure of DD and FLR.
DeleteDoug
Probably just moments before Dan uploaded this week's blog post, I had posted a last minute comment to last week's post - in response to comments by Jackson and Alan.
ReplyDelete>"Its the mixture of "fear" with trust that produces the magic."<
>" having a very healthy respect for what I know she is capable of doing"<
Well stated indeed, gentleman!
I don't know that I would use the word "fear" necessarily (and, of note, is that Alan uses the word in "quotes"). I certainly do not fear Susan as a person - although I suppose I could say that "I do fear what she can and will do to my ass with a bath brush". And while being told that I have a spanking coming - or bending over to receive one - does almost always conjure up that familiar pit in my gut - it still is really more accurate to say that I definitely have a very healthy respect of her as a dedicated disciplinarian (taking a paddle to my bare ass) - rather than "fear". --al
I have very mixed feelings about some of the distinctions I knew would come up in responses to this topic. I honestly can't decide whether there is anything beyond a semantic distinction between "healthy fear" and "healthy respect" and whether, when talking about DD, there is a real distinction to be made, or are we just very conditioned to deny feelings of fear when it comes to people we love.
DeleteThe example I keep coming back to in my mind is parental discipline, though I acknowledge it's an imperfect corollary to adult discipline. But, my basic point is, did I have a fear of discipline from my parents? Absolutely. Do I think there is a relevant distinction between fearing their *discipline* versus fearing them? I kind of don't think so. I think part of me *wants* to make that distinction, but I'm also not sure it holds up to scrutiny very well. I feel the same way with respect to things like teacher/principal spankings.
I had a principal in junior high who took over what had been a pretty fucked up, sometimes downright dangerous school. One of his methods for getting it under control was liberal use of the paddle. Did I respect him as a strong leader who was using harsh methods to correct a bad situation? For sure. Did I personally fear him? Again, for sure.
To me, it's possible to fear someone yet not respect them. But, if I do respect someone, that doesn't rule out that my respect has a genuine aspect of fear associated with it.
Dan - interesting point in that we do not want to make someone we love "fearful". So, yes, the issue does seem to be largely sematic perhaps.
DeleteI recall in our early days of our DWC relationship, telling my wife that I had come to have a sincere respect for her as a disciplinarian - and that I had developed a genuine fear of the paddle - in spite of my need for this lifestyle (it's a paradox - as most of us have concluded, I suspect).
You (Dan) wrote:
"But, if I do respect someone, that doesn't rule out that my respect has a genuine aspect of fear associated with it."
Well stated! Perhaps that "fear" (combined with the trust that Alan has mentioned) strengthens that respect. I believe that I would say that is true in our marriage.
--al
I know many people distinguish two basic types of "Respect:" (1) A mode of behavior that is polite; and (2) the acknowledgment of that person's "power," possibly perceived through "fear."
DeleteI've always been surprised that more people don't use "respect" in the context of DD to mean "admiration," of both metal and physical skills/techniques (including CP), of managing us husbands within a DD-marriage
Sorry: "Metal" -> "Mental"!
DeleteHi Dan,
DeleteI agree with where you are coming from on the difference between "healthy fear" and "healthy respect" being mostly one of semantics. This is also probably true for most people when trying to distinguish between being afraid of someone and afraid of what they might do. I have largely taken the opposite side in the past on this (in trying to state that I don't fear my wife but do fear what she might do), but even so, I agree that in the end it is mostly semantics. Truth be told, I know my wife is motivated out of love and would never do anything which would cause permanent on extreme harm, so while I may be kind of nervous about a spanking, I probably neither fear her nor fear what she might do.
-ZM
Fro me, I don't think any fear is ever about the spanking itself. It's more about exercising control in a way that I'm truly adverse to (at that time). Like barring me from doing something I really want to do.
DeleteThough, there have been punishments that left me feeling very unsettled after they happened. It hasn't happened often, but it tended to be when she spanked very hard for something I didn't see as a very big deal. Again, I think what made me feel very unsettled and almost fearful was that it was an expression of HER deciding what was going to be punished and how hard, it a way that proved that this lifestyle really did result in me losing some autonomy. It's hard to articulate, but it's one thing to fantasize about one person truly assuming control over you, and another to experience, and a spanking that was a mismatch for my own assessment of the behavior did seem like proof that I was no longer in charge.
I agree that the prospect of genuine loss of power or autonomy is more cause for fear than the physical punishments themselves. And yet, ironically it is this feeling of being subject to her that I crave, even though I inevitably buck against it when she does express her authority.
Delete-ZM
ZM, same here.
DeleteWe had a situation regardig this topic just last week. We are bringing DD back into our lives in baby steps, as my wife doesn't enjoy spanking and it's extra work for her (especially emotionally). And with three small children, she already has enough emotional work on a daily basis. That's why we have currently agreed on a maintenance session at the end of the month, which will be more or less intensive depending on my performance over the last month. Although she doesn´t spank very hard and the spankings are usually not very long it is sufficient so that I want to avaid one. Last week, my wife took the children to visit relatives while I stayed at home because I had to work. She gave me the specific task of meeting up with someone at least once during her absence so that I wouldn't be alone the whole time (she's a little worried because I don't have much of a social life at the moment). Since I wanted to get some things done around the house and was not in the mood for any social engagment I ignored these instructions. When she asked me about it in the middle of the week, I had nothing to show for myself, and she was very upset and demanded that I complete the task she had assigned me. I really didn't feel like it and thought long and hard about whether to test her and see if she would sanction my misbehavior. Not necessarily because I wanted a spanking but rather to see if she would step up in her role. In the end, however, a combination of her newly found authority and strictness and fear of the bath brush led me to organize a last-minute barbecue with a few friends the day before she returned. For me, —yes, there's definitely an element of fear that pushes me to act differently than I'd like to.
ReplyDeleteTo follow Dan's invitation and go a little off topic here: My wife is worried that my need for DD is a coping mechanism to help me deal with stress and certain circumstances that are weighing on me. She's afraid that I'm using DD as a band-aid so I don't have to deal with certain things. After doing a lot of research on the subject, I found that it is often people in high-pressure jobs who are interested in DD. It seems as if for many people it really can be a way to cope with pressure and stress. Maybe that's the case for me too. I find it difficult to figure out for myself why I need it. But is it ultimately bad to use DD as a coping mechanism? I suppose so, if it prevents me from seeking necessary therapy. But otherwise, I see it as one of many tools for coping with everyday stress. I guess I've strayed quite far off topic here, but maybe there's some input for a new discussion in the coming weeks. Mike
i Mike. Thanks for joining.
DeleteThat's an interesting intervention - requiring you to meet up with someone when she's gone. Although I have friends and like getting together with them, I'm an introvert and am just fine being by myself. In fact, sometimes I positively need to be by myself to recharge. Being around large groups of people drains me. My wife is an extravert, and on some level she doesn't understand my introversion any more than she understands my desire for DD. But, she's learned over the years that it is what it is. So, she now gets why I'm disappearing to our vacation condo for a few days after I've spent time with relatives or gone to a party.
When I first discovered DD, I was the classic high-achiever in a very high-pressure job. When I first started this blog, I assumed (projected) that most men who wanted DD had a similar bent. After running some polls on that topic in the early days, I've come to believe it's way more mixed than that. It's probably close to an even split between people who are Type-A/Alpha/Over-achievers and those who are naturally more submissive/less type-A/less dominated by work and performance.
I have a friend who is a very high-achieving female in a M/f DD-like marriage. She believes that most of us who want this are "unbalanced", not in the colloquial sense of mentally ill but literally unbalanced in that we have needs for accountability or boundaries that are tilted way more than the norm.
So, can DD be an "coping mechanism" for having too much pressure in other aspects of your life? Sure. But, I think our psyches strive for balance in lots of areas, such that if we are always in control and ordering people around at work, we may have the opposite need at home, and that's just one example. I once knew a lawyer who was a total raging bitch to deal with on the other side of a case, but in social situations she was the nicest, sweetest, most charming host or dinner guest you've ever seen. She clearly had different aspects of her personality that came to the foreground in different situations, and I think most of us have that going on to one degree or another. DD and FLR situations are just one way in which that psychic balancing manifests.
To me, the issue isn't whether DD is a coping mechanism but, rather, whether it is an unhealthy one. Also, how does it compare to other coping mechanisms? I'd argue that if you're an over-achiever with a high pressure job, is traditional talk therapy really going to do much for you? Talk therapy has a well-deserved reputation for often taking years and years and years and, in the end, the person on the couch may become more aware of why they are who they are, but the problems essentially remain. I'm not knocking therapy (Aunt Kay's husband, who is now a friend of mine, is a therapist), but I think it's wrong to suggest that therapy is automatically a healthier or more productive modality than something more physical or concrete, like going for a weekly hike in the woods, having a daily workout routine, meeting a close friend for lunch or, say, adding some accountability and boundaries with domestic discipline.
Also, while I think DD can be a coping mechanism, for some it's probably serving needs separate and apart from that. For some, the power exchange involved is very erotic. For some, it may play a purely functional, performance-driven role in helping them overcome bad habits or develop better ones. It can serve all sorts of different roles for different individuals. For me personally, it does the serve the role of balancing out my Alpha/Type-A tendencies but, interestingly, I don't find that my need/desire for DD has diminished much since walking away from the high-powered career. It clearly plays other roles for me.
Hope that helps or stimulates some further discussion
There is no doubt that spanking can reduce stress and is often used for that purpose. Although this is primarily a disciplinary site, I see nothing wrong with anyone who incorporates stress relief spankings into their life. Quite the contrary. Graham
DeleteGraham, we will have certainly discussed the issue of spanking for stress relief here before. As I recall, many of us had granted that was our wife's prerogative - to paddle our behinds as a stress relief if she so chose - since many of us had give our wives our consent to spank us at her sole discretion, no questions asked - the "consensual non-consent" that we speak of.
DeleteAlthough, there were also some who did feel that it was an inappropriate use of her disciplinary authority - and was not "true discipline".
Some might say that the wife sometimes spanks her husband for his stress relief - when it is apparent that he is uptight and has an attitude. So an attitude adjustment spanking in that situation might also serve as a stress relief for him.
And, if a couple finds themselves stressed with each other, certainly a sound paddling for the husband will undoubtedly defuse the stressful situation - and although it will cost the husband a painful trip over his wife's lap and a sore behind, the resolution of the marital stress will certainly be worth it for him at the end of the day.
Obviously there is no one right answer that works for every couple. It is just one of those things that a couple has to decide on in regard to their "spanking contract".
--al
Mike, your last point is a struggle for mine as well. She believes I would solve some of my problems without needing to be spanked, if I didn't have the spanking interest. She did say she likes that I'm weird. I should've had it signed :)
DeleteThe barbecue is a nice example of the dynamic working!
When we first started DD I had a high powered, stressful job and she was a stay at home Mom so stress relief for both of us was a benefit and also a balancing of the power dynamic as I needed humbling and she needed more confidence.
DeleteAfter spending a week taking care of the kids she really let off a lot of steam on my backside and I was happy to have somebody else in charge for once.
"I needed humbling and she needed more confidence." That was a huge part of our dynamic when we first started DD.
Delete"But is it ultimately bad to use DD as a coping mechanism? I suppose so, if it prevents me from seeking necessary therapy." - Perhaps so, but what if DD is a form of therapy in itself?
Delete"She's afraid that I'm using DD as a band-aid so I don't have to deal with certain things." - To me, it seems like DD is actually a pretty strong motivator to deal with things which otherwise might never be dealt with.
Mike: "She believes I would solve some of my problems without needing to be spanked, if I didn't have the spanking interest." - Or more likely, you might never solve any of those problems. The spanking interest, while perhaps somewhat unconventional or "weird" as she said, is actually kind of a gift to the relationship; without it, she would probably nag, and you would probably resent her nagging, and nothing would ever get fixed, whereas with you having this interest in spanking, she is able to communicate with you at the deepest level by speaking directly to your fantasies and internal motivation, and you love her all the more for doing so.
-ZM
ZM, well said. Mike's wife seems to be assuming that (a) there is something unhealthy about the DD interest; and (b) if it didn't exist, something both healthier and more efficacious would take it's place. That second assumption seems especially doubtful.
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ReplyDeleteDespite not being in a disciplinary relationship, I'm commenting as your post this week resonated with me more than most. I agree and am just going to restate a few points here in my own words.
For me the mix of fear and affection is a major component of what fuels this fixation. A number of times there have been comments on this blog decrying the use of the word 'humiliation'. But humiliation is what underlies this fear. We can say 'humbling' instead, it's a good word but I don't think it's a better choice. Sometimes humiliation is used to talk about situations where someone's worth as a human being is held in contempt. That's not what I'm talking about here. I'm using it more in the sense of exposure of pretension. What is the pretension being exposed by an authoritarian spouse disciplining their subordinate partner? Not sure if it's only one thing or not, but perhaps a pretension of autonomy or a pretension of equal status gets at it best. Saying that dignity requires that pretension is probably putting it a little strong, but it does promote those beliefs of being on equal footing. Nothing exposes pretension of autonomy like being made to cry hard like a child at the authority figure's discretion. It unambiguously expresses one party's control, and the other's lack of it. That's probably why I find phrases like "put you in your place" or "reality check" so potent. Same way with "attitude adjustment". There's probably no other aspect of our experience we so readily identify with as our attitude and to have a partner who knows that this is something they can change and bluntly states it is humbling and a little scary but in a domestic context also very intimate.
Depictions of discipline where the miscreant remains detached do very little for me. It isn't about the pain, it's about the assertion of authority and imposing indignity on a subordinate. It's why scoldings and warnings can be so charged once a disciplinary spouse has brought her partner to unrestrained, hard crying. Just the reminder of that lowering of status, the loss of dignity that goes with the loss of composure, is itself humiliating. If there's only pain at stake, I'm sure it can still be scary, but it isn't the same thing. It doesn't have the potential of the disciplined party unable to make eye contact after their punishment. It doesn't have the psychological dominance, the subordinate's shame at being exposed.
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DeleteTears and shame are at the heart of this for me, and so is a partner who knows this and is coming at it from the same place. From childhood on the desire has been for a stepmother type of figure who steps into a position of authority, make a survey and decides that there's going to be some changes around here. And when I say "here" the focus on the environment is secondary, the primary is me and my notions of acceptable behavior. What I'm interested in are relationship dynamics where there's enough trust and love for someone to be vulnerable to a stern partner who believes that holding her subordinate accountable with regular, deeply humbling punishments will do him a world of good. And without a doubt it's the bringing on of contrition after a lot of hard sobbing that makes it humiliating. Lots of elements contribute but that one seems key.
And with all that said, I'm not sure this is such a healthy fantasy to pursue. No doubt there are people living it who are happy and healthy. I'm happy for them. Especially for men though, I think being committed to this type of relationship and insisting on it is risky. It doesn't seem to be an attractive possibility to the majority of women. It might well turn off a committed partner who decides to explore their partner's fantasies. And I even have doubts whether it's all that good for one to be that vulnerable to their partner so as to fear them and the humiliation they can bring. But regardless, that's how I'm wired. Just because someone has a psychological fixation, even if it has very strong sexual overtones, doesn't mean it has to be acted upon. Not everyone gets fantasies or orientations that can or should be realized. And that all said, if I was in the right situation would I try this kind of dynamic out? Yeah, probably.
Over the course of many years running the blog, I've learned there are certain words that people just don't use in the same way. Humiliation is one of those. (Another example is "coerce". To me, it's a fairly benign synonym for pressure. But, when I used it in a post a few years ago, others saw it as equivalent to non-consent.)
DeleteIt may be largely semantic, but I do think of humbling and humiliation as two slightly different concepts. Although both involve having one's position or view of one's self lowered, to me humiliation is psychologically damaging, while humbling doesn't necessarily have to be. In fact, if one suffers from arrogance or excessive pride, humbling could even be beneficial. The dictionary definitions seem to me to be at least somewhat useful in distinguishing between the two, even if the difference is subtle:
Humble (v.): to lower in condition, importance, or dignity; abase.
Humiliate (v.): to cause (a person) a painful loss of pride, self-respect, or dignity.
Anyway, semantics aside, I share a lot of your attraction to the power dynamic you describe. I guess my one quibble the use of the word "pretense". Our dynamic began with us being, at best, equals and to a large extent, my personality dominated, and I was the primary earner. So, there wasn't a pretense of equality -- we were nominally equals and in subtle ways the relationship was tilted in my favor. So, for us, her becoming more dominant was intended to humble me, but it wasn't about getting rid of a pretense.
But, I do see some contexts where exposing a pretension could be in play for us, depending on how things might develop. For example, witnesses come up here a lot. Most of us in these relationships do present to the outside world a picture of co-equal relationship, and in an established DD relationship, that is kind of a pretense vis-a-vis the outside world. If someone were to witness a disciplinary spanking, that would certainly remove any pretense of equality. Less dramatically, more overt displays of authority, such as her giving me orders or instructions in front of others would negate some of the "egalitarian" pretense.
I share your reaction to depictions of discipline where the recipient remains detached or stoic. I have strong reactions to realistic depictions of sobbing.
I have thought a lot about DD in the context of a maternal dynamic, and in my own case, I recognize that part of the attraction is that my own mother was very erratic. I hadn't really thought about it in terms of desiring a "stepmother" kind of dynamic, but you have me thinking about it now. I have been fairly open with Anne in recent years that I gravitate toward a maternal dynamic, but a "stepmother" dynamic certainly diminishes some of the awkwardness around an explicit maternal dynamic.
"What I'm interested in are relationship dynamics where there's enough trust and love for someone to be vulnerable to a stern partner who believes that holding her subordinate accountable with regular, deeply humbling punishments will do him a world of good." I think my wife and I are pretty much there on the shared goal, though so far the sobbing has never happened.
Whether it's a healthy fantasy to others pursue isn't something that be answered with a generalized response. I absolutely agree that if someone already struggles with self-image problems, being subject to anything humiliating is probably not going to be helpful and could do real damage. I've always believed DD works only in relationships in which both parties are more or less emotionally stable and secure.
"I have been fairly open with Anne in recent years that I gravitate toward a maternal dynamic, but a 'stepmother' dynamic certainly diminishes some of the awkwardness around an explicit maternal dynamic." - Certainly true, but limited in degree, since even in a stepmother dynamic, it may not be your mom, but it is the person who your dad hopefully loves and presumably is sexually active with. I think this is one reason that the whole audio story resonated so much with me. It was a maternal dynamic, "just like I spank my kids," yet someone for whom you might normally have feelings of attraction, in this case a sexy divorced neighbor. When I think of maternal, it is never "my" mom, but rather "a" mom.
Delete-ZM
ZM, good points. And, I hadn't thought about it, but it's true that a stepmother relationship might be more sexually charged. That "just like I spank my kids" thing really gets to me as well. I've posted a few memes where a mom references the husband getting spanked just like the kids, and those always grab me. Similarly, the few commenters we've had on here whose stories had a ring of truth and in which the mother basically ran the household and the kids were aware that the father was spanked.
DeleteMy childhood experience was split between three different communities. In the first, spanking was incredibly common and out in the open. In the second, I was more socially isolated and didn't have a real daily window on other families and their disciplinary practices. The third was where I spent my high school years, and while I think spanking was fairly common, it wasn't really (as far as I know) for kids at my age. So, I didn't have much personal experience with spanking moms in that setting. But, one of my biggest crushes was on the mother of one of my best friends. In some ways she was a pretty lax parent, but she did have a hair trigger when it came to grounding her son, and she was totally inflexible about letting him out of it. Most of my attraction was that she was drop-dead gorgeous, but looking back I also wonder whether I was attracted to that kind of strictness and structure.
The comment about maternal dynamic meaning "a mom" rather than "my mom" certainly rings for me. It think the main attraction for me r.e. spanking began when I was a young boy. I was spanked and given limits by an authorative female adult. My mom never really gave me boundaries, and she was also very unpredictable. I have requested my G/F to give me firm boundaries, which she does. We basically view our style of DD as a healthy form of reparenting, with fringe benefits.
DeleteNorton, sounds like we had similar mothers. I am very clear in my mind that for me the maternal vibe I'm looking for is not an Oedipal thing for my own mother. She's about the last person I would look to as a role model for a strong, female disciplinarian.
DeleteNeither fear not humiliation has any interest for us. Graham
ReplyDeleteI guess 'fear' is not the word I would use to describe my thoughts when I know I am being spanked for punishment. I asked for this FLR lifestyle and agreed she would have complete control over all discipline. When I know I have earned a punishment, I understand it will be severe, but not to what extent. I respect her decision in determining the need and duration of the punishment. Even when I am unaware that I have misbehaved or otherwise need to be punished, I realize I have no control and resolve myself to my fate. The fear factor comes into play before I knowingly commit an offense or behave poorly. I never say...oh well, I know this is wrong, but I can take the spanking. The 'fear' of a punishment most likely wins and I avoid the behavior or infraction. I fear more her authority to lengthen the punishment at her desire. Once I was being punished for a repeat offense and felt the spanking was much longer and harder than was warranted. I was crying and begging her to stop as I could not take anymore. She angerly replied " I know what you can take and you're getting all of it'. I fear that part of a punishment more than the knowing a punishment is due.
ReplyDeleteFor me, I don't think the fact I asked for the lifestyle necessarily stops me from feeling something like fear about its implications. But, it sounds like we react very similarly if a spanking is longer and harder than what we thought the behavior merited. See my reply to ZM's comments below.
Delete"I never say...oh well, I know this is wrong, but I can take the spanking. The 'fear' of a punishment most likely wins and I avoid the behavior or infraction." I don't really do that either. In fact, I can't really think of a time where I consciously decided to do something that I knew would result in a spanking. But, for me there is the nuance that I often will do something that I *should* know is likely to get me spanked but, for some reason, that just never occurs to be at the time. That's very much the case when it comes to having "just one more" drink when out with a friend. Although I should think about the consequences, it's like the first one or two drinks just completely shut down the circuit in my brain that equates over-indulgence with DD. It just doesn't enter my mind.
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ReplyDeleteHi Dan,
ReplyDeleteThanks for picking this up as a topic!
You said: "ZM’s comments also suggest that there is something fundamentally different about the feelings aroused by adult spankings, no matter how severe, as compared to what some of us experienced as kids...I’m not sure I fully agree with that one. Perhaps it’s because I came upon the concept of DD so suddenly and unexpectedly when I stumbled upon the DWC, but I have very distinct memories about the nature and intensity of the feelings it caused to roil up within me." - I'm not sure if I agree with myself either, or at least maybe not fully. :-)
"Although it’s hard to remember how I felt when a spanking was coming (or I thought one was coming) when I was a kid, I’m not sure the fear involved in the prospect of a real adult spanking was all that much less than what I experienced back then. At least, not the fear or anxiety I felt when we first started down this DD path."
I absolutely agree with regard to the feelings that were present in the days leading up to the first adult spanking, and for that matter in the early days of the relationship. Certainly, those feelings were not much less intense than those experienced by a child facing a certain spanking.
"In fact, I think one aspect was probably even more fearsome for me, i.e. the possibility of losing emotional control, culminating in real crying."
No doubt at least a significant amount of those feelings from the beginning of the DD relationship were driven by thoughts about being reduced to a sobbing mess, thoughts about her taking the whole thing and really running with it (maybe too far), thoughts about the loss of control and the power transfer, etc.
But then reality happened. Yes, the spankings did and still do hurt. A lot. But all those tears? I have sort of been spanked to tears, but even that was certainly not the sobbing I probably feared. My wife has learned to spank harder and long, but still consistency has evaded us, so a good share of spankings simply never happen. And while I feel very submissive and probably somewhat humbled when she spanks me, it is far from the emotional impact I was expecting.
All that is to say, for me there was certainly plenty of emotional intensity and probably even some fear at the beginning of our DD relationship, but then after a short time, it kind of wore off and since then I have been looking for ways to get those feelings back, first through harder, longer spankings, and more recently by thinking about more humiliating (or humbling) circumstances around a punishment.
-ZM
I remember very distinctly the intense feelings that surrounded the prospect of being spanked to tears and, more generally, around losing control. I don't really remember, however, whether I was also made nervous by the prospect of her "taking the whole thing and really running with it (maybe too far) . . ." I don't really think so. At the time we discovered DD, I saw it as solving the related problems of me needing to be humbled and her needing to be empowered. She lacked confidence at that time, and that was something I expressly recognized and saw as a reason to try DD. For that reason, I don't think I gave much consideration to the possibility that she might get a little *too* into it and really run with it. Almost from the beginning, I saw the real challenge as get her to take it far enough, not too far.
DeleteAnd, I think time and experience bore out that concern. As you said, reality happened. A positive surprise was how quickly she lost any concern about giving very hard spankings, leaving serious marks and bruises, etc. But, both consistency and taking command in a real way were challenges for years and years. Today, I feel like we're making some real progress on the latter, though consistency is still spotty. I get the sense both you and I want the "real life" experience to be deeper, more pervasive, more challenging that it has actually been.
And, for me, it's not just about wanting intense experiences (though that's part of it). On those occasions when she has taken control in a direction I didn't like or emotionally resisted, it was very uncomfortable, and I did resent it. At that time. But, as time went on, I not only appreciated the firmness of her resolve but also felt like there was no way to *really* take me down a peg or put me in my place without going through that very real resentment or ill feelings about it. The fact that I had such emotional resistance to her dictates was proof that what was happening was real. It also did lead to beneficial changes (in my opinion) in some of my stubbornness and brashness.
"A positive surprise was how quickly she lost any concern about giving very hard spankings, leaving serious marks and bruises, etc." - Same. However, one interesting thing I have noted before is that she went quite far down that path, but then pulled back somewhat, so now she seems to mostly struggle again with marks and bruises. But in her case that seems to be a general aversion to bruises. If she sees a bruise on someone's arm, she almost feels faint, where I might see the same thing and think "oh, they bumped themselves" or maybe "good thing that it wasn't a worse injury" or something like that.
Delete"But, as time went on, I not only appreciated the firmness of her resolve but also felt like there was no way to *really* take me down a peg or put me in my place without going through that very real resentment or ill feelings about it. The fact that I had such emotional resistance to her dictates was proof that what was happening was real." - I totally get this, and think you captured it perfectly. For it to be what I want and need, I need to NOT be ok with it at the time it happens. And this is a big ask for us to expect our wives to put us in these situations and keep pushing forward even though we are clearly not happy about what is happening and perhaps resent it at the moment.
-ZM
Same with Anne regarding marking. She was very OK with it early on, but when we experimented with canes again recently, she got very squeamish about some of the bruising.
DeleteI agree that taking on some temporary resentment is a big ask, though when it's relatively mild, Anne seems to actually get off on it. She's said that when she bosses me around or scolds me, she positively enjoys when the look on my face demonstrates that I'm struggling not to tell her to fuck off, yet I ultimately push it down and do what she says.
I don’t think I feel ‘fear’ of my wife or of spanking, more a feeling of apprehension & nervous anticipation. She will normally wait until she is calm before spanking me and so there is (usually) quite a considered inevitability about the lead up to and execution of punishment. What I am fearful of is the first minute of any strapping as there is never a warm up. I always find the first dozen or so strokes almost unbearable to the point of nearly losing control. After the initial shock I can usually ‘settle into’ that high level of discomfort as the strapping carries on.
ReplyDeleteEqually I have a really hard time with the emotions surrounding the pre-spanking submission, the inevitable feeling that I now cannot escape, the embarrassment of partially undressing all against the background of her very matter of fact demeanour. TB
"I always find the first dozen or so strokes almost unbearable to the point of nearly losing control."
DeleteI experienced that earlier this week from a session with her bath brush. It had been several weeks since my last spanking, and those first swats were truly almost unbearable.
This description of a feeling of apprehension before a spanking is true for me also. She doesn't use a strap, but the first few minutes of a hard paddling are the most challenging for me. She used to start and stop the spanking to lecture, but recently I let her know that it is more effective for her to spank non stop at the beginning, as it can quickly push me to my limit, and get me to a state of submission before the numbing sets in. Also, the description of the pre spanking emotions is true for me as well. I have encouraged her to occasionally
ReplyDeleteenhance my feelings of vulnerability by putting me in the corner, or ordering other humbling and embarrassing activities, such as being her sissy maid. My feeling vulnerable before a spanking, and quickly overwhelmed during the spanking, increases her power and my submissiveness.
I don’t “fear” my wife, but I very much fear the spanking I am going to get when she determines I have earned one. The worse is when she determines when I earned one but it can’t be given to later that day or even for a day or two. Thinking about what is coming my way is very stressful.
ReplyDeleteI was spanked growing up. But I think the the biggest emotional difference is every time I got spanked as a kid I did all this mental gymnastics to convince myself I did nothing wrong or what I did didn’t deserve a spanking. With my wife I feel incredible guilty or even dumb for what I did to result in her deciding an earned a spanking. I take full responsibility (most times) for my actions and I am very sorry for what I did.
That anticipation is kind of a constant for us. It's pretty rare that a spanking is given within even a few hours of an offense. A multi-day delay is pretty typical.
DeleteWhen I was a kid, I don't remember thinking I didn't do anything wrong. I think it was more about wanting to do what I wanted to do but preferably without getting caught. As an adult, like you I often feel guilty or dumb when I've done things that I know merit a spanking. But, I'll probably post today or tomorrow about a recent spanking where I didn't really think I was in the wrong and still don't.
There have been some keen observations and comments. Dan I am happy to have generated a topic that seems to have interested folks and generated some really interesting comments on the mental aspects of FLR/DD.
ReplyDeleteI had an exceptionally good week in that there were really zero behavioral issues and my alcohol consumption was very close to her rules(3 a day). I had a work trip and usually that means I will buy a bottle of bourbon so I don’t spend a fortune at dinner or the bar, and that almost always means over drinking. Well…this week I did not purchase a bottle for the room and only had 4 one night and 5 the next(I was with a coworker who kept ordering rounds). At my check in I was not worried because I knew I had an Ace in the hole…I have a full body dermatology exam tomorrow and so no Discipline today….I know I can see the future too….It is coming!!! And I do Fear it. I’m sitting here feeling pretty dumb also because since I got out of my punishment this morning I was feeling a little emboldened and when She commented about a household habit I have of leaving the coffee grounds in the container I use to make the coffee beside the sink instead of just apologizing and leaving it at that I became a little Rude…a touch sarcastic and even a little argumentative about it. All 3 of those things are expressly spelled out in our agreement as being against the Rules. Lauren also has a surgery coming up that will necessitate about 6 weeks of rehabilitation and She may not feel like dealing with Disciplining me during some or all of that time so She has already told me that after my Derm appointment She will catch up for my Drinking and comments made this morning, and in addition there will be an extensive pre-surgical session to be sure , “you don’t piss me off while I am recovering”. And so I’m sitting here thinking about what is to come and interestingly I am not particularly afraid. I am apprehensive, definitely respectful and wishing I had handled the minor dispute over kitchen hygiene more tactfully, but Fear is not really a thing right now. Is that because we skipped Discipline? Maybe.
I do look at Her with a pronounced increase level of respect than before FLR/DD, not only because I know what could happen at any time She chooses, but because I know She is willing to follow through. Like I said last week…I don’t walk around always in Fear of Her. It’s not like that, but since the sessions have increased in length and intensity just about the last 6-8 months I have noticed that when She shoots me a look or gives me a pinch or kick under the table I get a pit feeling in the stomach, and I am quick to check my behavior.
I also think I understand the difference in the being humbled vs humiliation. Like Dan I also do not get very close to tears. She has had me there once or twice, but I do cry out quite a bit. I also say her name followed by Please! I am also careful to promise changed behavior and let Her know that I will completely Submit and be Obedient going forward. This all Humbles me greatly, but I do not feel Humiliated or any less of a person. I agree that if this were done to a person of low self esteem it could be detrimental. Overall FLR/DD has been very good for our marriage and we are better than ever! I did worry early on about how it could change Her mental image of me and for awhile checked in with Her asking if She saw me as less of a man or if the Dynamic made me seem less attractive to Her and She said that if anything She admired me for being willing and able to take it to become a better person. She admits that it’s a bit strange that I have this need, but that it seems to work and She is perfectly willing to continue. I think on some level She gets something out of it too in that it gives Her an immediate way to take control of poor behavior and deal with feelings that poor behavior causes Her to feel.
Yes, thanks for the topic idea. The discussion felt way better this week than it had in a while.
DeleteGood progress on pulling back on the drinking when traveling. Having a large bottle in my room would have been a killer for me. My biggest challenge is that fact that four or five drinks socially becomes many more when I'm by myself. Thankfully, it's been months since anything like that happened.
I once had a derm appointment to look at a particular spot, and I remember going into a full-blown panic when the doctor suggested a full-body scan since I was there anyway. It took me by such a surprise that I had to think about whether I'd been spanked recently enough for marks to show. Thankfully, my timing was good and it had been a while.
Those "small" instances of being rude or sarcastic are a huge problem for me. And, they are--or should be--so easy to correct.
When we were starting out in this, I don't recall ever having a big concern about her thinking it would make me seem like less of a man. Maybe I'm just weirdly secure in my masculinity? Or, maybe I believed that, given that she has read the stories on the DWC and decided was OK giving it a try, she knew what it meant in terms of the whole masculinity thing? What I was more concerned about and checked in with her frequently about was whether she was OK with it, including with things like leaving bruises and causing real pain. Even today I still sometimes check in on how she is feeling after she's taken a hard line on something or exercised more power. I think it's because, in many ways, I think she had to stretch more to be in this lifestyle than I did.
Talking about fear…
ReplyDeleteThere was a girl I met online in college. The intent was for her to spank me for poor performance in school. The first time we met I was very uncomfortable as there were other people with us she knew for my spanking. The spanking was honestly not that bad and I ran out quickly.
The second time was a “maintenance” spanking. It was at that point the hardest I’d ever been spanked. Extremely red bottom all throughout.
For various reasons we didn’t get to meet again, but talked about it. Tbh the idea of getting spanked by her again left butterflies in my stomach and made it hard to focus on anything. I knew it would be much harder than the last and I wasn’t sure I could or wanted to take it.
Another girl I met who was more sub when I told her the story was super jealous I got that experience. Looking back I wish I’d have met her many more times to face the music, but it was never meant to be.
-Alex Glass
"Tbh the idea of getting spanked by her again left butterflies in my stomach and made it hard to focus on anything."
DeleteWhen I first discovered the Disciplinary Wives Club, I had zero adult experience with "real" spankings. (There had been a very short period in which my wife and I experimented with erotic spanking, but it was really just "funishment" with a flimsy leather paddle from an adult novelty store.) Having read the stories on the DWC website, which often ended in tears, but never having experienced anything like that myself, I still recall that in the three days it took me to bring the concept to my wife, I had constant butterflies in my stomach and had difficulty thinking about anything else. It was extremely nerve racking.