“It is only when we are no longer in control--because of sickness, death, or our own bad choices--that we no longer cling. The path to salvation is the path of humiliation.” – Jonathan Martin
Hello all. Welcome back to The Disciplinary Couple’s Club. Our weekly on-line gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, a Domestic Discipline relationship.
I hope you had a great week. Ours was kind of good, and kind of grueling. That’s the way it is when you’re an introvert with extended family in town. We hung out with people we love and care for, did lots of stuff, saw some nice sights and, yet, we both were happy to have our house back for a quiet night alone, with a book in front of the television.
This was also a week where I could sense the subtle change of the seasons, regardless of what the calendar says. There were a couple of mornings walking the dogs when I felt something distinctly autumn in the air. Football season also has clearly started and is capturing the attention of many in our area, though I came across this meme, which has to be one of the most hilariously emasculating I've ever seen:
We had a good conversation last time, on what I had been concerned might be too limiting a topic. I found most interesting the posts that connected the issue of spanking frequency/consistency with the emotions involved in being taken out of your comfort zone and into a zone where your control is much diminished. Here are two examples:
“A daily spanking would happen before I was ready for the next one. By asking to be spanked often, I was putting myself in conflict with a base need to be spanked exactly as often as I desired.” – MW
“The thing that I like about "on the spot" spankings Dan, is that they rock my world. I don't expect the spanking and I am suddenly in a really uncomfortable situation. She is in control and suddenly I am not. Very confronting but also very like school (see below).” – Mark
I identify closely with MW’s comment in particular. Whether it’s how often spankings happen or the reasons for them, on those occasions when I feel unsettled, disquieted, or resentful, at the root of that feeling is a conflict between my ego’s desire for things to happen exactly as I desire or envision, on the one hand, and how or why she has determined they actually are going to happen, on the other.
Alan made a similar point, relating back to my response to MW:
“Dan writes: “When I’ve hit some emotional threshold in DD, it has tended to be when a spanking was much harder or longer than I thought was deserved or when a lecture really cut me to the core. Yes, in those circumstances, I did feel resentful on some level, but I also felt disquieted because something was imposed on me that I didn’t agree with, yet it happened anyway.”
“I experience some of this more when she slowly, almost arrogantly, takes my pants down knowing I am psychologically unable to resist it and when they are down, I have been trained they don’t go back up again without explicit permission. That shook me deeply the first time it happened. That was with my former girlfriend, and it took a couple of days until I calmed down and realized it was really what I wanted and just shocked that it had happened.
“When spanking reaches the point you are describing I am usually past any resentment and close to that hopeless feeling that she might not ever stop. I know that’s an illusion but it seems very real at the time, and that is what leads to crying when crying happens. I don’t mean to play Dr. Freud but the resentment you feel might be preventing you from crying at that point in a spanking. I am known as a stubborn guy that doesn’t give up, but I think I have met my match in you.” – Alan
As I told Alan in response, I don’t think it’s resentment that keeps me from crying, but I definitely think it is a form of stubbornness, namely a stubborn refusal to give up that last vestige of control.
I also had my own lesson last week that not being spanked more frequently does have its downsides. It’s a lesson I’ve learned many times before yet somehow always seem to forget.
Anne decided I was going to get spanked for something that I personally thought was at worst trivial and, in reality, something she was just plain wrong about. Not so much wrong on the facts, but wrong about whether what happened really was a problem. It was, once again, a social situation that involved me expressing a strong opinion, but this time I maintain that I was right, that the opinion had been invited, and that it didn’t result in any negative reaction from anyone.
Honestly, I’m not sure Anne
really disagreed with me on any of that.
Her stated justification was pretty weak and she clearly wasn’t upset
about it. Rather, she had decided she should spank me for it, so she was going
to, even though her stated justifications didn’t hold up to scrutiny very well. One might even speculate she just thought it was time for one . . .
Sensing that her resolve might not be terribly strong, I argued, cajoled, charmed and, basically, did everything I could to try to avoid or at least delay. Up until the last minute, I thought I might get out of it. Alas, no. Over her knee I went.
As usually, she started with her bath brush. From the very first strike, it was excruciating. I was yelping and groaning hard from the outset, to the point that, while she was hardly merciful, she did make it somewhat shorter than usual (probably around 125 swats). She also reduced the force somewhat at the end. Neither of those reductions are typical for her. As I’ve said before, she’s generally very “binary” in her approach; it’s usually fully on or off.
She immediately connected my reaction to the issue of frequency/consistency, commenting, "Well, I guess I really haven't been doing my job if this is how you react to a simple spanking. I clearly need to be doing it more often."
I think there was a three-fold reason why it hurt so much:
(1) It had, in fact, been at least six weeks, and maybe more, since my last spanking. Apparently, that's all it takes for my butt to retreat to a state that's much like its pre-DD, unspanked condition.
(2) I had done a heavy leg workout that morning and, thus, my glutes were tight and already sore.
(3) I just wasn't "in the mood." Of course, I'm never in the mood for a spanking when it’s about to happen. However, usually there is some substantial delay between the sentence and its execution, leaving me time to process what is going to happen and accepting its “rightness” on some level. This time, however, I never did accept that she was right about the wrongness of the conduct and, therefore, I had zero sense of accountability. Also, because I had tried to talk my way out of it right up until the start of the spanking, I denied myself that period of contemplation that usually results in acceptance.
Once I realized it really was going to happen, I tried to address the mindset by telling myself even if I didn’t accept her reason for why it was going to happen, the truth was there had been a couple of other recent issues that had gone unpunished and that I did agree I should have been spanked for. However, that didn’t really seem to work.
Which brings us to one item for discussion this week, though I’m not sure it’s broad enough for a full topic: Have you ever gotten a spanking for one thing, while in your wife’s mind she was spanking you for something else? In other words, have there been times you’ve been punished and maybe you didn’t expressly agree on what exactly you were being punished for, though both of you thought you deserved punishment for something? If so, how did it feel different, if at all, from the times when you were both on the same page?
We also talked a bit last week about moodiness. TG brought it up in terms of an area he wish his wife would address more frequently:
“The one area I really want to break is mood. On occasion I get into a bad or snappy mood without any real justification and I wish I could get her to deal with this quickly and firmly. I suspect I’d be getting a real punishment every two or three months in that case - although I suspect the behavior modification encouragement would work and the frequency would reduce.” -TG
I wondered aloud whether DD was likely to work on something like our moods, which often seem out of our own control. Alan answered thusly:
“Yes definitely if the mood does not reflect deeper depression which of course calls for professional medical care. But if its transient-like , and if a wife is skillful in handling it, a spanking or even a credible threat of a spanking can make moodiness vanish --poof, gone.” – Alan
Let’s broaden those comments into a topic focusing on moods. Does your wife ever punish or discipline you for moodiness? If so, please give us some examples. Does it generally work?
Recognizing that few of us are probably ever truly “in the mood” for a punishment spanking right before it happens, are there times when your mood is particularly at odds with accepting and taking that spanking that you really don’t want? Does your wife ever delay or take it easier because of your mood? Or, does the spanking actually fix the mood, such that delaying or foregoing would be exactly the wrong way to approach your mood issue?
How about your wife’s moods? How do they affect her determination to spank you or her approach to doing so? Does her mood determine the severity or timing of a spanking?
In the comments last week, multiple peopled tied the issue of frequency to spanking in anger, observing that they wish their wives spanked more frequently right after an offense, when they are still angry. Does your wife typically spank when her mood is anger, or does she wait until she has calmed down?
I hope you all have a great week. FYI, I’m going to be tied up from Friday through the first part of next week, with several periods when I won’t be online. So, there probably won’t be a new topic next week.
A while ago, my wife pointed out that I seemed to be getting a a bit short-tempered which I think she ascribed to getting older. The last thing I want is to turn into the classic grumpy old man so I have made a conscious effort to avoid these moods, I think with a fair degree of success. So a couple of years ago there was an incident where I really lost my temper - which is unusual anyway - over basically nothing. The spanking I got for that was one of the most severe I’ve ever had. (Not complaining, it was exactly what I deserved and I think the best method of behavior modification to deal with the problem.) Fast forward to about three months ago. We were away for a few days at a resort and one evening were taking the resort shuttle to a nearby restaurant and shopping complex for dinner. For some reason - I don’t remember what - I had to go back to the room and we were to meet in the lobby to get the shuttle. I got to the lobby to find that we had just missed a shuttle (there was another in a few minutes) and I was immediately annoyed that she hadn’t asked them to wait. I recognized my own reaction, realized I was heading for a punishment and consciously pulled my mood back to “It didn’t matter, there’ll be another one in five minutes.” I have no doubt that the expectation of a hard spanking was the catalyst to getting my mood back under control. We did talk about it later and she said since I had pulled it back so fast, I wasn’t going to get spanked for this occasion - a decision I didn’t agree with, but not my call. So, at least speaking for myself, DD can certainly have an impact on mood. TBH, there have been times when I felt she was losing interest in DD, however, we were at a family gathering yesterday when someone mentioned that he had received a $175 speeding ticket. She turned to me and said “you wouldn’t want that,” with a very clear implication that she was thinking about DD. It’s close to twenty years since I have had a speeding ticket but we agreed long ago that it was a caning offense at a rate of one stroke per dollar; so I suppose maybe the reduced rate of discipline really does imply that I’m deserving it less often - which I guess leads back into the old discussion of maintenance spankings, but we don’t need to rehash that in this conversation. TG
ReplyDeleteThe particular way DD helped your mood makes sense to me. I know that some think venting your emotions is generally a good thing as opposed to holding it in, but I wonder about that. We seem to create feedback loops in which we have an emotional reaction, then let loose with some powerful expression of it, and that expression of emotion then locks us into that emotion or even escalates it. Based on your description, it sounds like your wife made a good decision in deciding not to punish you, since you did break that feedback cycle and get yourself back in control.
DeleteA cane stroke per dollar probably would make me think twice before engaging my "lead foot."
It's interesting that you brought up the subject of being spanked for something that you and Anne did not agree was an actual offence as we had a similar incident this weekend.
ReplyDeleteI saw an event coming up and asked my wife if she wanted to go..
She did not say no but her reaction was what I took as neutral ,so I texted some good friends if they would be interested in joining us and they immediately came back with a yes.
When I told my wife I was surprised that she was furious because she had not given me her answer so should not have asked them.
She said I was 'forcing' her to go now as she couldn't say no because our friends were coming.
I tried to explain that was not my intention but it became quite heated and she gave me quite an earful for apparently not listening to her ( which is a spankable offence so I could see where she was going)..
She concluded with a general statement that I had not been listening to her lately, but did not provide any examples , and said we needed to have a 'discussion' about that (which is code for a spanking is coming up very soon.)
I suppose there were a few times when I was guilty of not listening and she let them go so basically iaccepted her sentence because I had it coming , even though I think it was her own vagueness that caused this specific problem not me.
Perhaps she may change her mind after she thinks about it but she sounded pretty firm so I will be on tenterhooks for the next day or two.
Yeah, there are times couples just genuinely aren't communicating well, and it's not like it's really anyone's fault.
DeleteBTW, Anne read the blog post and told me that I was really getting spanked not just for the social incident I talked about but my behavior when we got home, which included staying up late and having nightcaps. So, she disputes the premise of the post that she was spanking for one thing while I was receiving a spanking for another and, instead, says I was being spanked for multiple things, some of which we did agree on.
I suppose when you manage to avoid being spanked for weeks it will eventually catch up with you!
DeleteNice bunch of questions Dan. Starting with the easy one for me, I would definitely like my wife to spank immediately when she is angry. However life does get in the way so very often things tend to ride and be spanked later when circumstances permit. But, my experience is that if she can spank when she is angry, she will.
ReplyDeleteI am definitely with you... when a spanking is going to happen I am seldom in the mood and become less so once it has started. However, I can occasionally get myself in a funk that I just can't get myself out of and a spanking really does tend to reset me. I think that I do have an "I really need a spanking mood". This spanking is different, I definitely don't want it right up until the time that it starts and then I do want it. The pain makes me feel better? Reassurance received? Love expressed? I don't know.
The comment on cajoling, charming, begging(?) interested me. I often try this and am sometimes successful. I do think that when unsuccessful, it would be appropriate if the punishment was significantly more severe. Does this happen to anyone?
On your reluctance to self report... In relation to moods, I got really cross (over the phone) with a person at work today, wasn't very mature, and made it patently obvious that I was mad. I should be punished... but it's hard to initiate the conversation...
TG, I think that you should sit your wife down post haste and renegotiate the penalty for speeding. If she canes like my wife 175 strokes will see you in a very bad way. Maybe you could bring inflation into the discussion... speeding fines are no longer $20 or $30...Maybe these days it would be more appropriate to receive one very hard stroke for every $10 of the fine?
Mark, your comment about a reset strikes a chord. We call it “putting my world straight” but it’s very much the same thing - comes back to the maintenance thing I think. As for the speeding tickets, I’ve avoided one for nearly twenty years but you’re probably right, if that changes I may have to look for some adjustment to the rules. TG
Delete"I definitely don't want it right up until the time that it starts and then I do want it." I definitely do not want it as it is happening. Anne virtually never does any kind of warmup, so those first swats are always shocking. But, I am often glad I got spanked fairly soon after it happens.
DeleteAnne doesn't spank harder or longer for trying to talk my way out of it. It generally doesn't seem to be a big deal to her and, if anything, she's mostly amused when it's happening. But, the reality is, given how often it succeeds maybe she should make it something she does something about.
I did bring it up. The responses were (1) it’s a great deterrent, isn’t it ? (2) Renegotiate ? We didn’t negotiate the first time. Guess I’ll just have to keep being careful. TG
DeleteTG, eek! I'd be so screwed.
DeleteI have to ask you Dan ,were you still arguing cajoling and charming Anne when you were already naked , the bathbrush produced and ordered over her lap?
ReplyDeleteSurely you knew by then there was no way out?
I certainly would have given up long before that.
Sounds like it almost worked though!
ReplyDelete“Does your wife ever punish or discipline you for moodiness? If so, please give us some examples. Does it generally work?”
Yes, historically mood has been the most common reason my wife has spanked me. Maybe I get angry or frustrated about something that has nothing to do with her, and I show it in a way that is a downer for her and starts to ruin her day. She will warn me that my display of childish temper is getting on her nerves. If I ignore that warning, or am unable to control myself accordingly, I am at risk of being spanked. Yes, it works. Being spanked changes my perspective and makes me see my childish behaviour through her eyes.
“Recognizing that few of us are probably ever truly “in the mood” for a punishment spanking right before it happens, are there times when your mood is particularly at odds with accepting and taking that spanking that you really don’t want?”
There is always a moment when my wife orders me to prepare to be spanked that I feel like defying the order. It feels unfair because when I am still in the grip of a bad mood, my mood feels justified to me. But the spanking shifts my perspective.
“Does your wife ever delay or take it easier because of your mood? Or, does the spanking actually fix the mood, such that delaying or foregoing would be exactly the wrong way to approach your mood issue?”
No, my wife never delays a spanking. If I push her to a tipping point, she deals with it immediately. If it is delayed, she often forgets about it.
“Does your wife typically spank when her mood is anger, or does she wait until she has calmed down?”
My wife doesn’t wait. Whether I get spanked or not is dependent on her mood, and once her mood has changed, she might forget about it. One exception is that if we are out somewhere, maybe in the car, she might spank me when we get home, but when she does, it is because she still feels annoyed.
As I have mentioned before, my wife sometimes threatens to spank me on the spot when we are out in public. Strangely, the mere threat of a public spanking affects me almost as strongly as an actual spanking, so she doesn’t even have to follow through. Even though she couldn’t really do it (I believe), the mere thought of it subdues me.
GH
My wife hasn't threatened me with a spanking when out in public very often, but I do think the mere threat of it probably would rein me in right away.
DeleteDan, something I am curious about—maybe it is a separate topic—is the role of warnings and spanking threats in DD relationships. My wife threatens spankings more often than she actually gives them. I guess that’s because she has found that just threatening or warning me has the effect that she desires, so she doesn’t have to follow through. I haven’t seen much discussion from other guys about warnings and threats, so I wonder whether that is a unique feature of DD at our house. Maybe I am more responsive to threats than most guys?
DeleteWhile we've done "warnings" as a topic before, I'm happy to do it again. I'm out next week so won't be posting, but I can do it sometime after that.
DeleteWe had a complete mismatch only this week. Our house guest went out and I was almost immediately summonsed to get upstairs, strip and lie across the bed - she had already laid out the cane and strap so clearly I was in for quite a severe session. The scolding started as per usual as she listed out the incidents of disrespect (several), some rudeness (misunderstandings I thought but lying prone is never a good time to take a stand!) and a specific issue (in her mind) that she knew I disagreed with and which took 10 minutes for her to explain in detail! As she (finally) took position to carry out the punishments the house guests returned early and so the spanking had to be abandoned. Which is probably just as well because I had the temerity to question (gently) her logic in raising the particular issue at that time and her mood had darkened somewhat... Spankings have only very rarely been interrupted previously so I'm (nervously) interested in what happens next after that stay of execution ... TB
ReplyDelete"lying prone is never a good time to take a stand!" - I like that a lot!
DeleteThough, seriously, I do find that arguing when a spanking is about to take place is probably the least effective time to state your case, even if you are right. At that point, she's emotionally committed and unlikely to change course, even if you lay out a compelling case.
As a rule , Dev will not spank when she is angry. She will calm down before the issue is addressed. Waiting is very difficult for me knowing what’s going to happen. When the time arrives it’s always memorable. JR
ReplyDeleteThat's the obvious trade-off between "on the spot" spankings and something more delayed -- it short circuits the anticipation process, which can be powerful. But, maybe it depends on the nature of the offense. I can see on-the-spot working very well for minor issues. It would serve as a reminder about specific expectations. For more serious offense, a one to two-day gap seems to give me about the right time to think about what I did and what is going to happen as a result.
DeleteI was in trouble for what I said Saturday. She took care of it last nite. The paddling wasn’t too bad. The wait was horrible.
DeleteShe isn't often angry, but when she is, a punishment spanking will be hard and long. I recently requested she spank ASAP after the transgression, which she has followed through on. I used to be much more cynical and grumpy, but I don't feel so grumpy anymore, at least about my personal situation. That probably is somewhat due to my not wanting to bring her down, as well as my knowing I will be getting a spanking on a very regular basis. She will often give me a preventative spanking me to "settle me down" if I am getting ready for a stressful event. That seems to work very well, and I have even sometimes asked for one. I don't try to argue my way out of a punishment spanking, as I want and need her to hold me accountable and firmly demonstrate her authority.
ReplyDelete"I used to be much more cynical and grumpy, but I don't feel so grumpy anymore, at least about my personal situation." That's great!
DeleteI've never known my wife to punish me in an angry fit. That's just not her personality. Of course she's unhappy with me by that point, but it's more of a slow build up than that. At first I thought she was spanking me for some relatively minor matters, but through improved communication, I learned what her reasoning was all about. This was a bit of an epiphany and led to fewer spankings at our house. 🙂
ReplyDeleteI'd describe the spankings I get from Beth as very businesslike. I feel like that's the elementary school teacher in her. If she seems especially peeved with me, they might be a little harder, but that could be my imagination at work.
Our improved communication has included some discreet warnings when others are present. Beth doesn't hesitate to take me aside for a quick conversation about my behavior. I can't say that I always listen, especially if I've consumed alcohol, but I'm doing better than I used to.
Kevin
Thanks, Kevin. "At first I thought she was spanking me for some relatively minor matters, but through improved communication, I learned what her reasoning was all about." Can you tell us more about that reasoning?
DeleteIn Beth's mind, serious errors in judgement require a spanking. But life generally doesn't work that way. It's not that black and white, for us anyway. Sometimes I will be in a generally pissy mood for a couple of days, say things that are out of line, fail to be a supportive husband, etc. Beth will put up with it for a while, but reaches the point where a spanking is triggered. For a time that could feel like it was coming out of the blue, but our communication has improved. That includes Beth giving me positive feedback, some verbal warnings, and occasionally, some smacks with her spatula. Any or all of these could happen before I get a real spanking.
ReplyDeleteI mentioned in another post that the number of real spankings I receive has steadily declined. Maybe I'm outgrowing childish punishments, but more likely it's my wife's ability to find ways to keep me in line.
"In Beth's mind, serious errors in judgement require a spanking. But life generally doesn't work that way. It's not that black and white, for us anyway."
DeleteVery true. I don't think Anne has ever punished me for general moodiness. It really has to be something directed at her. Or, on a couple of occasions when she thought I was too short or sarcastic dealing with the kids. I've always been surprised how rare it is that she punishes for a pissy attitude even when it IS directed to her.
Agreed, Dan. And it's that kind of general moodiness and underlying bad blood that is toxic to a relationship.
ReplyDeleteKevin
Exactly. It seems like the perfect candidate for more punishment by a wife who has been given authority to determine what to punish for. It's disrespectful and conflicts directly with her supposedly elevated status in the hierarchy. It's an example of very poor communication that could be corrected with effort. It's directed *at* her. And, she has the power to do something about it. It seems like all those would add up to being punished often, yet somehow it doesn't.
DeleteI am punished from time to time for grumpiness and attitude, though certainly not as often as I deserve to be. Two things that I can think of that might make a wife reluctant to spank for moodiness or grumpiness is 1) it is quite subjective, compared to some behavior that she can categorically say happened (or didn't happen if it was supposed to), and 2) she might figure that you are just going to resist it anyway if you are already in a bad mood, so it just seems unlikely to work and too much hassle.
Delete-ZM
Welcome back! We missed having you around.
DeleteYeah, I think those are the twin issues at play. Though, on the second one the solution would probably be to give it a few hours until my mood had changed, which it almost always does in a few hours.
On moods, while I rarely want to be spanked when it's happening, there are times when I *really* don't want it, and when I'm feeling like that I do struggle to take it well. It seems to hurt a lot more. I do get spanked for being moody too. Irritability, impatience, temper - that sort of moodiness is the sort of thing Emma now stamps on quickly. If I don't control my emotions, I know I'll get punished. I've also been spanked when I've been feeling inexplicably glum. This just happens to me sometimes (I may be mildly bipolar or something - it runs in the family). That sort of spanking isn't for punishment so much as welfare. Emma does it in the hope that it will make me feel better. Results have been mixed. It's worked in the past but last time she tried it, I think I just submitted so meekly - showed so little of my usual fight - that she felt a bit like she was kicking a puppy. She stopped and sent me out for a bike ride on the theory that exercise would be more helpful, which it turned out to be.
ReplyDeleteI know what you mean about the mismatch thing, but in a way I think this is the beauty of submitting to one's wife's discipline. In the end, if she's really in charge and making the decisions, as I certainly want her to be, that's going to result in her spanking me when I don't think I really deserve it. The challenge, I think, is to find a way to accept her discipline, to try to adjust your perspective so you can appreciate why your behaviour bothered her. Recently (whilst enduring a seemingly endless corner time in advance of a punishment) I managed to work myself round to the understanding that it wasn't so much the specific incident I was being punished for (accidentally scratching a car bumper) that justified her wrath, but a long-standing failure to meet standards she believes important (Emma thinks I care too little about material possessions and am careless with them). I hated being put in the corner and left for so long, which is the main reason Emma does it: it has much more deterrent effect than a spanking. But it did also have the merit of giving me time to reflect and accept that the severe strapping which followed was deserved. That process of gradual submission to Emma's discipline felt powerful and meaningful, because she was very much in control and using her right to spank to make me adjust my perspective on the world.
The reverse phenomenon, not being spanked when I think I deserve to be, is also a necessary consequence of Emma truly being in control of my discipline. I need to accept her decisions not to punish and move on, rather than harbouring unhelpful, unkind and disrespectful feelings that her discipline isn't up to scratch. That I find harder because of how I'm wired. I've spent my life yearning for stricter discipline and I doubt I'm going to stop. But I do try to remember how lucky I am to have a wife who does this for me, and to respect her judgements even when I find them frustrating.
BenB
P.S. On last week's topic (sorry I missed it), Dan, the analogy between the mountain and the spanking is good but not perfect. The mountain was genuinely dangerous. You'll never know whether you made the right decision by turning back, but you may have done - the decision not to press on alone, over difficult terrain, may literally have saved your life. The great thing about our wives' spankings is that though they are happy to make us suffer, we know we will never come to harm across their knees. Enduring our punishments is painful but there's no risk involved.
"On moods, while I rarely want to be spanked when it's happening, there are times when I *really* don't want it, and when I'm feeling like that I do struggle to take it well. It seems to hurt a lot more." This is a great way to get out what I was trying to articulate about my recent spanking.
Delete"In the end, if she's really in charge and making the decisions, as I certainly want her to be, that's going to result in her spanking me when I don't think I really deserve it." Agreed, it does seem to be almost inevitable.
I'm not judging efforts to get out of a bad mood, but it seems like this is an area where like being angry or grumpy are one thing, but depressed or, as you say, "glum" might be very different. When you are depressed (I'm using it in the colloquial sense), it often involves a feeling of being powerless or lacking a way to influence negative things going on around you. Given that you're starting from a "meek" and seemingly powerless position when those emotions are in play, I can totally see why using DD for that was a mixed bag for you. Emma seems wise to have suggested a bike ride instead.
"Emma thinks I care too little about material possessions and am careless with them." This is a BIG issue for me too, though Anne has never punished me for it. On the one hand, I'm glad that I do not get very attached to material things but, as you say, the downside is I also sometimes fail to take good care of my stuff, resulting in needless expense and frustration.
Regarding corner time, it just doesn't work for me. I think it's because I've been into meditation for so many years that, when put in a corner with a blank wall to look at, I switch almost automatically into a meditative state. It would be almost counter-productive to put me in corner time before a spanking, because I would likely get zen about the whole thing.
Yeah, the mountain is an imperfect metaphor, for the reasons you cite. Honestly, it basically was just an ego hit. I'm mad at myself for not pushing further but, the fact is, I just wasn't feeling right about it that day. I felt generally "off" and, instead of feeling a positive sense of "stubborness" driving me to gut it out, I just felt anxious that something bad was going to happen. The taller mountain I successfully did two years ago really was a profound experience. I think just just exceeding my limitations by making to the top would have had some powerful impact, but the real mind-fuck was the trip back down. That last mile was so off-the-charts excruciating, and I just had nothing left in my internal gas tank. I was literally stumbling like a drunk, because I had no energy to make myself walk straight. My feet felt like they were bruised to the bone from jagged rocks. It went on, and on, and on, and there was no realistic way out but to just keep stumbling. Something about that--feeling like I absolutely could not go on but having to nonetheless--does have some (though still an imperfect) similarities to a really hard spanking, but it was way more profound that any punishment I've had. The feelings stuck with me for weeks. Though, there are glimmers of comparable DD events, including a couple where I was spanked and thought it was more than deserved. It was, again, about being subjected to something I could not control or had very limited control over.
"On the one hand, I'm glad that I do not get very attached to material things but, as you say, the downside is I also sometimes fail to take good care of my stuff, resulting in needless expense and frustration."
DeleteDan, that is sometimes an issue with us, but more commonly, Beth has a problem with my spending practices. She is much more frugal than I am and keeps a close eye on the entire house budget. As an example I might think she is being too picky, but she will take me to task for my lunches out while she is bringing hers to work every day. As a teacher, she doesn't have much choice - it's either school lunch or brown bag for her. I could make the case that I need to eat out with others as part of my job, but that would be a lie. I just easier and I like to do it.
She doesn't scrutinize everything, unless it's a tight month, but I've been spanked a few times for some impulse buying decisions. It's another case where the cumulative effect is what gets me in trouble.
Kevin
Frugality is an area that I don't think would work well for either of us. It's not that we aren't frugal, but it's very inconsistent for both us. We both have that very bad tendency to sweat small, totally irrelevant expenses, while dropping thousands on vacations, hobbies or toys.
DeleteMy wife is much more careful about money than I am. So, I could easily see her deciding to change my money habits sometime. At least so far, this hasn't happened, but it is certainly not out of the realm of possibility.
Delete-ZM
Where I could see spankings for money matters playing a role is if it were tied not to the amount, but whether something happened after the purchase that showed it had been a mistake or frivolous from the beginning. Basically, it would be a form of carelessness, and I do think she should be spanking me more for careless behavior that ends up costing me/us time or money.
DeleteDan writes:” that's the obvious trade-off between "on the spot" spankings and something more delayed -- it short circuits the anticipation process, which can be powerful. But, maybe it depends on the nature of the offense. I can see on-the-spot working very well for minor issues. It would serve as a reminder about specific expectations. For more serious offense, a one to two-day gap seems to give me about the right time to think about what I did and what is going to happen as a result.”
ReplyDeleteI have been thinking about on-the-spot versus delayed for the past few weeks in response to several comments touching on them. I find that Dan’s thoughts above resonate very strongly with my own about the optimal use of on-the-spot versus delayed and when each kind should be used.
For us, on the spot (which I sometimes think should happen more frequently) work best for the minor issues, often habits or carelessness that make her angry but are not earth-shaking to either of us. Leaving a mess in the kitchen or bathroom, minor tardiness, forgetting a minor chore leaving a front light on at night, not re wrapping the lunch meat in the fridge, etc. When she spanks me in a situation like this, I tend to really remember it and try to fix the behavior, usually successfully and swiftly. A quick, short on the, spot spanking really seems to work.
But a spanking on the spot for a major offense like deliberate disobedience or disrespect or embarrassing her, or not being fully forthcoming, then I need time to consider what I did (and why), and time and a serious scolding and discussion are going to address that level of an offense much better if a behavioral change is the objective.
Delay in these situations also gives her time to think about how she wants to handle it, and in effect, it increases the impact of any consequent punishment on me because I can’t avoid thinking about it coming, and usually, that builds time for guilt and remorse to develop as you inevitably keep thinking about what you did and what the consequences may be for it.
And there is one other dimension to the on-the-spot versus delayed that seems important. Most of my on-the-spot spankings have been hard, fast, and short. It's done quickly and over quickly. A few have even been hand spankings. And that level of moderate punishment seems appropriate for minor or smaller issues.
Whereas delayed speaking is almost always long and hard, accompanied by corner time and embarrassing hard questioning and scolding. And to be fair, that kind of spanking is more appropriate for the major “big” offenses. And it's more of a deterrent to repeating them.
In the real DD world, there isn’t such a clear distinction between an on-the-spot response and a delayed response and when either is more appropriate or even possible to carry out. A husband or boyfriend under discipline has to let her make that decision and accept it. But there is nothing wrong with talking to your partner and letting her know what work and what doesn’t
Alan
Alan, all that resonates strongly with me.
DeleteAlan, same here. Corner time seems to be more effective for more serious offenses, but not nessessary for the on the spot ones. She occassionally has used it without a spanking afterwards, but more often, she uses it to help me focus on the reason for the upcoming punishment. She sometimes uses spanking is to calm me down, and it has worked well enough that it seems like it may eventually be a recognized as a legitimate therapeutic tool for couples wired like us. I have PTSD, which is now pretty much under control, and consensual spanking has been a reliable method to help me snap out of it. Dan, another topic for later might be "when do you know you are in for a spanking and does she always let you know immediately?" Many of you seem pretty clear about that, but I often get "the look" or a vague word of disapproval, and wonder if I crossed the line. The need for clarity probably stems from a chaotic childhood where I never knew what to expect.
DeleteThe last entry was mine.
DeleteNorton, I'll work that one in.
DeleteGreat comment and analysis, Alan!
Delete-ZM
Hello ZM
DeleteWelcome back. I think I am just reflecting my own experience and that of several recent commentators. I am a big fan of "on the spot", get it done and move on. But thinking about it I realized for us where they really work well and not so well.
Alan
Norton said: “I have PTSD, which is now pretty much under control, and consensual spanking has been a reliable method to help me snap out of it.”
DeleteThis is really encouraging that consensual spanking can have that effect. I don’t have PTSD, which must be a challenging condition for you. But it is true for us that particularly for mood issues a spanking can snap me out of it and it lasts.
Alan
Hi Alan. PTSD used to be a very challenging condition for me, but it's much better now, due to a loving woman who spanks me hard and often. I first became aware of how spanking can be used to help with PTSD from the author Jacqueline Omertà , who has been mentioned in this blog before. She was a F/M spanking professional years ago, and said she claims to have spanked guys returning from wars, which seemed to help them. Her info is still for sale on Amazon and available on audio through the library. Her thoughts on spanking are that it can be used in a therapudic way, which I agree with. However, all of us on this blog would have a fundamental disagreement with her, r.e her belief that consentual adult spanking should only be used in role play. This blog is basically a testamony of the truth that F/M spanking can, and should be, real, at least for folks wired like us. What we practice is the opposite of role play, and this blog, as well as the dearly departed DWC, has hundreds of explicit examples of how it can fundamentally improve marriages and change lives for the better. Real F/M DD may be America's best kept secret, which is a shame. It's worked wonders for me, my PTSD, and my relationship.
DeleteNorton,
DeleteI agree with your sentiments about the efficacy of real DD when couples are lucky enough to make it work. For many men (and women too) it seems to be a need that goes so deep that not having it can create all sorts of problems. Needing it and not getting it must be a problem for millions of (especially) men and I hope and believe this blog helps them and their partners to understand more fully the benefits of DD.
I am generally familiar with Omerta’s work and think her absence from public life is a loss. She seemed to be particularly well grounded in the emotional, sexual, and psychological of spanking,
I was not aware that she counseled limiting DD to role-playing but that might have been her background in counseling or simply her own preference. I suspect couples with DD-style relationships run a gamut of styles from always role-playing to real life, all the time
We do not consider ourselves role players but both of us have done enough of it to realize it can be a very powerful experience as well. I don’t think it satisfies most spankos' deep needs but it might work well early in a DD relationship
Good thought!
Alan
I agree with you guys that Ms. Omertà and the DWC brought DD to the forefront. What I can’t grasp, is the fact that we have so few contributors to this site. You would think with the increase in technology, compared to when the DWC was prevalent, there would be at least a couple hundred commenters on DD or FLR to the blog. It’s too bad, because I enjoy reading and commenting on our weekly topics. I lurked for the longest time before I threw my hat into the ring. I hope
ReplyDeleteothers read this and comment. Dan has done a great job bringing a forum for us to comment on. Unfortunately, there are so few of us and I truly wonder how many of us are actually out there.
T
I think being so serious and reflective about committed long-term relationships, not about BDSM or using BDSM community language, and unfriendly to fakes limit participation. Those are all good things, mind you.
DeleteI've thought about this question of "levels of participation" on and off over the past few years. I do have some "hypotheses," probably not very testable, that may account for overall levels and an apparent drop-off in diversity since this forum started.
Delete(1) This forum and it's participants seem to operate at a significantly "higher level" than most other forums on similar subjects. Participants seem to be fairly well educated and definitely "literate." Unfortunately, much of the general population is "barely literate" with a "high school" education (which for USA is not saying much)! It's possible that many people, in addition to natural "shyness" about their desires and orientations, are somewhat intimidated by the overall levels of conversation here. I'm not sure what could be done about this; I certainly don't want the conversations here to degrade or become "wank-fodder," but maybe we can all be more accepting and open to others and there possible mistakes or lack of clarity in expression.
(2) I seem to have noticed, over the years, that Dan's subjects and questions appear (might be misperceptions) to be more pointedly directed in two ways: (a) Dan appears to be directing more (most?) of his discussion topics directly at men, rather than the more generalized "DD-couple; possible that partly accounts for some of the drop-off in female participation; (b) Dan directs his subjects more toward how "men feel/think," rather than men's (or DD-couple's) "experiences" and/or "aspirations;" such a change in orientation may have dissuaded some "newbies" / "inexperienced aspirants" as well as females (partners and otherwise) from participating.
As I said, the above two "observations" are very "qualitative feelings" from my reading through many years of the forum, but they might be areas where minor changes of forum orientation and questions could be explored.
-- HP
T: It's a multi-faceted issue. Interestingly, the number of real contributors hasn't really varied that much over time, though the total clicks per month has. It ramped up from inception in 2013, hit its high right before the pandemic, then declined steadily. But, through all that time (other than the first year or so when it was ramping up), the number of people who actually contribute on a regular basis has stayed about the same, though the mix of people has changed.
DeleteAs for the decline in readership after peaking in early 2020, I have no doubt that some of it was I posted a lot of memes poking fun at anti-vaxxers, anti-maskers, etc. I have no doubt it pissed off many of them and they never came back. Honestly, who cares. I think another big source of the decline is the DD-related blogs are kind of an ecosystem, with links leading from one to another. But, almost all them that were around when I first started this blog have died out, which really limits the number of referring sites.
I'm not sure what all contributed to the DWC phenomenon, but some if it may come down to the simple fact that they worked a lot harder than I have at producing and, importantly, distributing, a lot of varied content. There were implements, booklets, and even videos, all for sale on the website. Moreover, while "Kay" and "Jerry" were pseudonyms, the group was less concerned about anonymity than this group--including me--have been. Kay had live telephone calls with couples who wanted to participate. They had live, in-person meetings. So, a big part of the success seems to have come from two factors: (a) working hard at producing lots of good content, and (b) being more open.
I know some disagree, but I also think that real, F/m DD probably is a very small niche. As for why the participation has never been high even within the niche and has, in fact, declined, I wonder whether text media like blogging are just passé as compared to more visual platforms. There doesn't seem to be any shortage of spanking and DD content on Tumblr. On the other hand, DD seems to be a small niche on other visual platforms like Pornhub and Spankingtube.
So, in short, I don't know. We have a good group of commenters here, so I'm not worried about chasing numbers.
MW, you're probably right. People who are say they are into DD but really just want a fix of spanking porn aren't going to stick around here long.
DeleteHP, both your hypotheses could be correct. It's hard for me to say. Regarding the "higher level" of discussion being intimidating, it's possible. It's also possible that it's not so much about intimidation but (a) laziness; and/or (b) lack of interest in something that isn't aimed right at the groin-level reaction. Those kinds of readers are probably going to hang out over on Julie's blog more than here, and I say that without any disrespect to Julie. She has her focus and I have mine, and she plays hostess to some I have actively run off of here, e.g. "Jack" and his idiotic "face the wall" ramblings.
DeleteAs for the lack of more female participation, on one hand I see it as a problem, and on the other, I don't. I'm not sure that it's about being more purposefully inclusive in phrasing topics, but that could contribute. But, female participation was higher (though never very high) a few years ago, and I don't think my conversational style was any different back then.
[Just fyi, some may not realize this, but in the beginning and quite some time I intentionally stayed away from positioning this blog as being aimed at "wives" because I didn't want to step on the DWC's toes. I wanted something that covered similar lifestyles, but that didn't seem like I was just ripping off their content or cannibalizing their content. I'm less concerned about that now, not because their site is down, but because I've had express permission from Aunt Kay's husband (at her instigation before she passed) to use this as an official successor site and to do what I want with that content. But, what I "want" right now is to see the original content restored with as much of the original "look and feel" as possible. I'm working with Aunt Kay's husband and their original webmaster to see what I can do about that. Sit tight.]
While I don't "not" want more female participation, I haven't chased it, for a few reasons. First, it just seems to be a fact that our wives are never as into interacting about this stuff as we are. I'm not sure why that's the case, but it is. Second, having high levels of female participation sometimes did create an odd vibe, particularly when some of the more Femdom or FLR-inclined men--and some who were just kind of lacking in manners--would fawn all over the wives instead of treating them like any other participant. Third, on a fair number of occasions "female" participants turned out to be men in disguise. It's caused me have a certain skittishness about "women" who do show up, at least until there is a bit of a track record.
Could not agree more! It seems impossible to know how many of us are out there, but for those of us who contribute on this blog, it sure works out well for all concerned. Being a submissive male and/or needing discipline from your wife in this macho culture is threatening to the deeply held values here. Most of stay in the closet, and this is the only safe place where we can compare and share opinions. It's amazing to me what you might see in a gay pride parade, and it's accepted. Real, consensual, DD, as we practice it, is almost never talked about, or even know about. Adult spanking is generally put in the category of BDSM, not DD. When the DWC came out, it really grabbed me, and I assmued that F/M spanking would evolve and be generally accepted as a legitimate lifestyle. Sadly, the DWC doesn't even exist online anymore. Thanks Dan, for continuing to provide a place where we can openly share our stories and learn about how others practice real DD.
ReplyDelete"When the DWC came out, it really grabbed me, and I assmued that F/M spanking would evolve and be generally accepted as a legitimate lifestyle. Sadly, the DWC doesn't even exist online anymore.
DeleteIt definitely grabbed be in that same way, though I don't think I ever assumed that others would feel the same or that it would become more accepted over time. I've always been OK with it being a pretty small niche, and I honestly don't want to see it become "a thing," because I think that would cause it to lose a lot of its allure for me.
Dear MW. Could you please elaborate on what you mean? It isn't clear to me if you think the comments in here are too serious, or if you think there is something wrong with not wanting fakes contributing in this blog because that limits participation. I am also unclear about what you are saying r.e. BDSM. It seems to me we are not critical of BDSM - it just isn't what this blog is about. I personally appreciate the serious, honest, and intellictual
ReplyDeletenature of this blog. Do you?
Norton, I believe there's a misunderstanding. I see those participation limiters I mentioned as being good things about this community. I think we are in full agreement about the value of the nature of this blog.
DeleteRegarding BDSM, I agree we aren't critical of it here. It's just a different culture and a significantly larger one.
I am mostly get spanked for disrespect and / or rudeness. She will almost always wait until she has lost the edge of anger, although once I'm in position and she starts to scold she can get a bit cross at the memory of the offence(s)!. The second most common reason for a spanking is my mood - she will just say that I am in need of a reset, usually first thing in the morning and deliver a time measured (3 or 6 minutes) spanking which will take me from reserved moodiness through resentment at being spanked 'for no reason' to a calmness and changed mood that normally lasts a couple of days. It may be endorphins or just what I call the 'defibrillator effect' of the spanking pain but I almost always feel a mood change after such a reset. She will often comment on my mood change.
ReplyDeleteWe are experimenting with much more frequent spankings at the moment, almost daily, which is having a very clear effect on my behavior. As part of this change I am also required to write a brief journal of my feelings / mood and how I believe I am behaving. It's been nearly two weeks under the new regime - the house is much calmer and she has an unusual air of confidence about her. Time will tell how this experiment proceeds... TB
TB, that's an interesting experiment. It sounds like it's working out for your wife. How about for you?
DeleteMy wife was into making me journal for a while, and the value she saw in it wasn't so much reporting my behavior but giving her insight into my feelings and what was going on in my head.
I’d say it’s working for me in that I am much more sensitive (!) to the effects of my words. Life is easier when roles are more black & white. And the discipline of daily journaling about how I am feeling makes me more self aware. The spankings have generally been at the ‘lighter’ end of the scale (with one notable exception). Her increased confidence is a real bonus. And because we have had guest’s through the summer I have been working on relaxation & controlled breathing during each session to keep the noise at a minimum which she says she likes… TB
Delete"Life is easier when roles are more black & white. And the discipline of daily journaling about how I am feeling makes me more self aware."
DeleteI get both of those points. While I've always been a born rebel where rules are concerned, I do think things might feel easier under a combination of clear roles and strong leadership.
I find that writing about anything personal can be a very illuminating experience. It even happens to me writing this blog. There are times I know that I'm feeling a certain way, or that I've reacted a certain way to some situation, but it's only after I write about it that I start gaining insights about the "why" of those feelings.