Hello all. Welcome back to The Disciplinary Couple’s Club. Our (more or less) weekly on-line gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, a Domestic Discipline relationship. I hope you all had a great week.
It wasn’t a great week, but it certainly was a momentous week in world events. As anyone who has read this blog for a while knows, I’m a political and world affairs junkie. I started the day on Thursday very down that it appeared the worlds democracies were once again going to roll over and play dead in the face of totalitarian aggression. Yet, over the course of the next few days and as a result of watching millions of Ukrainians put their lives on the line to stand up the neighborhood bully, the rest of the world somehow managed to find its balls.
Inspiring stuff. Though, I’m fascinated by the collective amnesia of the politicians and pundits who are criticizing the current U.S. administration for not being strong enough in supporting Ukraine, after those same politicians and pundits argued left and right that it was no big deal for Trump to get caught on a “perfect” phone call trying to extort Ukraine by delaying military aid until they coughed up dirt on his political opponent. No, no big deal at all. Shameful.
Anyway. On to this week’s post. It’s kind of an update on recent developments and an extension of last week’s discussion. As I’ve related on here a couple of times, one of my resolutions for the new year was to do a better job self-reporting any behavioral problems. Unlike most of my resolutions, I’ve actually done pretty well on this one. Not perfect by any means; but, not too bad. However, I’m finding that for every action there is, indeed, an equal and opposite reaction. Although I’m acting to be tougher on myself on the reporting front, the perhaps inevitable reaction is I’m working harder to delay the anticipated consequences of that reporting. And, unfortunately, February proved to be chockful of events that allowed me to wriggle out of those consequences. There were visitors and a couple of physical health issues, holidays (Valentines Day) and personal events that (a) interfered with her ability to deliver a spanking immediately; (b) allowed me to display some offsetting good behavior that warmed her heart, i.e. gifts given to her on a couple of meaningful occasions; or (c) gave me an excuse to argue for a short delay, i.e. “Ah honey, it’s Valentines Day. How about tomorrow?”
Now, as I’ve related a few times here, I’ve always been kind of bad about trying to get out of what I know I have coming, or at least very actively hoping that something would come along and interfere. But, I do feel like that reaction intensified after I started reporting more. I don’t really try to avoid it entirely. Indeed, if that were the overt aim, the best means would probably be to just “forget” to self-report. Yet, I haven’t been doing that. Instead, my reluctance to get spanked manifests as various subtle and not-so-subtle suggestions that maybe she could just put it off a day or two.
The problem is, justice delayed very often turns into justice denied. I’ve talked before about the trade-offs between immediacy and anticipation. I do believe that allowing a misbehaving husband to stew about it for a while does have its place. But, so does immediacy, not least because the big problem with providing a lot of time for anticipation also lays the groundwork for it not happening at all. As ZM noted:
When things get postponed, it is almost never because my wife wants to keep me anxious about it. Rather, things get in the way, or maybe sometimes she just doesn't feel like punishing me at the time. When things get postponed - for whatever reason - they become less and less likely to happen with each passing day.
I couldn’t agree more. Alan offered further support for the value of immediacy and the problems with lengthy delays:
This discussion about delayed or postponed spankings remind me about the relatively few “on the spot” spankings I have received. But I remember every one of them, even those that occurred years ago – and with few exceptions I either never repeated the behavior that caused the spanking -- or didn’t repeat it for a very long time. What I am saying is that spanking in real time is probably much more natural and more effective than delay.
Those who have studied the factors that make a correction effective tell us that it should be “certain”, “severe” and “swift”. In the real adult world we all live in, these are challenging conditions to achieve. But for those who believe spankings can’t achieve real behavior modification, I say: try certain, severe and swift for a while and see if you still think spanking doesn’t work.
I agree that “certain, severe, and swift” is almost certainly the right recipe for effective correction. Throughout our fifteen-plus years of doing DD, however, we’ve almost always been a mere one out of three. Anne’s spankings have always been plenty severe. However, “certain” and “swift” are ongoing problems.
I’m being honest when I say that my resolve around self-reporting was an effort to build more certainty into our disciplinary endeavors. What I am finding, however, is that in the context of Domestic Discipline, certainty and swiftness are not wholly independent variables. Without swiftness, certainty becomes far less . . . certain.
In thinking through what to do about my efforts to self-sabotage the painful discipline I know I deserve, it did occur to me even before Alan’s comment that reducing the time between a self-report and her taking up the paddle and doing something about it is probably a necessary first step. I’m not sure it would even require a major adjustment. What I see happening time and again is I self-report, then we aren’t around each other for a while, then as soon as we are, I go into my subtle and not-so-subtle efforts to delay. Over the course of even a few hours, I can find arguments to delay the proceedings, or often things really will happen on her end to interfere. So, what if she started eliminating some of the time that I have to maneuver and that events have to intercede?
As so often happens, I got to think about some of the inspiration we got early on from the Disciplinary Wives Club stories. As I’ve said before, one of my favorites has always been the story Even More, written by our contributor Al. It occurred that in that story, the wife calls the husband when she is on her way home from work and tells him to be ready for his spanking as soon as she gets home, after telling him earlier in the day that he was in for one. That seems to me to be about the perfect amount of “anticipation” time. He knows for a few hours that he is going to get one, then there is a short but powerful period in which he knows it is coming very soon. In our case, there simply wouldn’t be much time for me to argue or maneuver if she were to call me on her way home from work to tell me I was getting my spanking as soon as she gets home. It could also work in situations in which the husband is at work or otherwise away from the home. She could call and order that he be home by a certain time and tell him to expect a spanking as soon as he gets home.
The other thing about anticipation is I think wives may over-estimate its power. I have a pretty short attention span, and I suspect other husbands do too. If I know I have a spanking coming in the next hour, I will think of little else. However, if the “anticipation” period is longer or more indeterminate, other thoughts naturally intercede. Moreover, while soon after an offense I may feel a lot of contrition and a strong desire to be held accountable, those feelings have a pretty short half-life.
Finally, as Alan alluded to, when the delay becomes substantial, additional acts of bad behavior or “acting out” seem to become inevitable:
[F]or us there is a certain self-correcting mechanism that never lets her paddle gather too much dust. If it goes too long or she lets my behavior slip I begin to act out, in effect challenging her authority –and then she reminds me both of her authority and that I don’t want to challenge it.
Please let me know your thoughts about any of this. I hope you all have a great week.
Once again, I seem to find myself a bit different from some of the followers of this blog. This week the basic topic appears to be the time delay between the action and the actual punishment. I read with interest the comments and agree that the longer the delay between the two has effects. Reaching way back to my childhood, my parents believed in discipline at the time of the offense, if possible. Sure, there were plenty of times the actual infraction was not realized by my parents for some time, but then the spanking took place swiftly. When we formed our DD household, we both believed in and agreed to discipline at the time, and in most occurrences, the place of the behavior that warranted the punishment. Of course there are always going to be some circumstances to foil this plan, but for the most part we have been able to maintain this concept. Using the words in the above post, certainty, swiftness and severity are met in our household as often as possible. Another word used was anticipation. This I hardly ever experience. Since we are together most of the time, she is aware of the misbehavior and I am spanked immediately. In the cases where she learns of it later, I am spanked as soon as she becomes aware. I know I have related the time when at a friends home, she took me to an adjacent room and delivered a bare ass belting everyone heard. I fully realize that most folks are working and not together most of the time, so it was easier for us to incorporate the 'punished at the time of the infraction' concept. Interesting topic and I await more responses.
ReplyDelete"When we formed our DD household, we both believed in and agreed to discipline at the time, and in most occurrences, the place of the behavior that warranted the punishment. Of course there are always going to be some circumstances to foil this plan, but for the most part we have been able to maintain this concept. Using the words in the above post, certainty, swiftness and severity are met in our household as often as possible." That's really great.
DeleteYou're probably right that working and not being together all the time makes immediacy harder, though I sometimes wonder whether there are other factors at play that defeat our genuine interest in consistency and strictness. I thought when we became empty-nesters things would change significantly. Nope. I thought things would change when I stopped working. Nope (though, as I've discussed, Covid and retirement did lead to some behavioral improvements on my end that lessened some of the need for punishment.). Next year Anne will join me in retirement; we'll see if that moves things forward.
We are the same way. Now that we are empty nesters, we do less DD (and for that matter anything kinky) than we did when we had much less opportunity! I think part of it is that before we really tried to find opportunities because they were so rare, and now we can put it off for another day, which of course never comes.
Delete-ZM
"I think part of it is that before we really tried to find opportunities because they were so rare, and now we can put it off for another day, which of course never comes." That makes sense and highlights the wisdom of the Picasso quote at the top of this post.
DeleteGood point regarding being home together Cowboy . We are not and the main reasons for delays for us is that she is working all week and is too tired or too busy getting other stuff done.
DeleteBy the time the weekend arrives , it can be forgotten or too difficult to fit in our schedule.
Sometimes a verbal reminder may prompt her into action.
On one occasion I was due for a spanking which was deferred all week because of her work , and on Saturday morning we had to leave to go somewhere for the day.
After my shower I asked her if she wanted to spank me before I got dressed and she actually surprised me by responding yes that was a good idea as it had slipped her mind.
After she administered a brief but smarting dose of the hairbrush, I got dressed and we left.
We don't have the same situation. Like others here, I tend to only get punished for "concrete" offenses -- forgetting a chore. My wife almost never gets around to spanking me the same day I earn the punishment. Usually, it is the next day.
ReplyDeleteLast week I forgot a chore and she called me out. She forgot to spank me the next day and the day after. At that point she decided it made no sense to punish me. Swift punishment is the most effective. She knows it. She also forgets to spank me. It's not on her mind the way it is on mine.
I'm both happy and upset when she forgets. I'm starting to think that in my case, self-reporting is more about reminding her that I've earned a spanking. That would be a lot harder for me to do than reporting my offenses.
The downside of this is that she could see it as me pointing out a problem of hers. There's no diplomatic way to say, "You owe me a spanking." No matter how I phrase it, I'm pointing out something that *she* missed.
Your post got me thinking about this. I think I'll ask her what she would like.
I asked her how she felt about being reminded. She didn't like the idea of me telling her that she forgot to spank me (no surprise). She liked the idea of a reminder. So, I ordered a custom 2"X2" fridge magnet with a picture on it (https://bit.ly/35zheje). She loves it. Feel free to use the image if you want. I found the customizable magnet on zazzle.com.
DeleteThat may be the wrong link. It seems to a picture of wooden paddle.
Delete"Swift punishment is the most effective. She knows it. She also forgets to spank me. It's not on her mind the way it is on mine." I suspect that is very common. Even when a wife embraces our request for discipline, it's probably not with as much dedicated energy as we have about the whole thing.
DeleteHere is the correct link. https://etsy.me/3tnYefM . The company is TinySharks.
DeleteDan,
ReplyDeleteYou are not the Lone Ranger, either in failing to report promptly or in a tendency to delay a spanking. It must be a common problem in many female led DD relationships and it sure is in ours.
But it shouldn’t be much of a surprise that we hesitate to report or try to delay. After all if we were self-disciplined enough to actually consistently self-report or accept responsibility for our behavior –we probably wouldn’t need our wives or girlfriends to supply the self - discipline we lack.
I often find self-reporting virtually impossible both because I really don’t want the consequences and because it is often extremely embarrassing to in effect ask my wife to spank me. I may have acted like a child but I don’t want to feel like one.
There is only one thing I have found that works at all to counter the tendency to delay or temporize when a spanking is likely or imminent. I discovered this with my former G.F. and I have shared it with my wife. It only works for major issues and it probably needs to be an issue that you both are very motivated to manage.
But it’s actually very simple to implement:
1. Define the behavior well so there is no question what constitutes a violation (e.g. more than two 16 once beers) ;
2. Promise her you will NEVER lie or mislead her about it if she asks about it AND that you will not challenge her authority about it in any way ;
3. She commits to asking about it often ( daily if possible)
My former G.F. would simply ask me if I had obeyed her today or was disobedient, with both of us knowing exactly what she meant. My wife was a little more direct and graphic about it, but simply her asking when you have committed to telling the truth is what made it work
There is one other technique that might work too but my experience with it was not spanking related. In college I had a mostly hormone driven year long relationship with a rather aggressive woman who had the habit of asking during conversation “is there anything else you want to tell me?”
We were not in any spanking relationship although looking back, she was very much in charge. But whatever it was, I would just babble when she prompted like that. I was reminded about that a while back when a contributor (Helen?) discussed the “confession” sessions she held with her husband.
But, bottom line, any of these techniques require the disciplinarian to ask –and of course full commitment to never mislead when she does ask. Remember “don’t ask, don’t tell”. Call this “ “Just ask, always tell”
Alan
"But it shouldn’t be much of a surprise that we hesitate to report or try to delay. After all if we were self-disciplined enough to actually consistently self-report or accept responsibility for our behavior –we probably wouldn’t need our wives or girlfriends to supply the self - discipline we lack." I hadn't thought of it that way, but it's a really good point.
Delete"I often find self-reporting virtually impossible both because I really don’t want the consequences and because it is often extremely embarrassing to in effect ask my wife to spank me." Honestly, I think for me the embarrassment of the reporting, which is as you say "in effect to ask my wife for a spanking," is a bigger impediment than my not wanting the consequences. There is something very humbling and embarrassing about the whole process of reporting, and I think you are right that some of that has to do with, in essence, asking to be spanked. To be sure, the prospect for such humbling was one reason that I was the one to suggest more rigorous self-reporting, as I thought such humbling, while hard in the moment, would do me good. And, under the system I implemented, after summarizing any problematic behavior, I have to give her my own recommendation on whether I deserve a spanking. So, I really am, in effect, asking that I be spanked or at least stating openly that I should be.
Hi Alan,
DeleteAs you know, my wife and I don't do a lot on the self-reporting front, but she does very much use the interrogation technique. And as you said, for this to work it is very important to always answer fully and truthfully.
"I often find self-reporting virtually impossible both because I really don’t want the consequences and because it is often extremely embarrassing to in effect ask my wife to spank me. I may have acted like a child but I don’t want to feel like one." - I have only recently realized just how much I struggle with that feeling of embarrassment, not so much from asking my wife to spank me, because I usually don't do that, but just from discussing how much I missed the mark. And like Dan said, I actually want and need this humbling, and it is in fact one of the large motivations for me to want DD, but then I struggle with it as it is happening.
On the self reporting front, just today I made a box like I was talking about a few months ago, which only my wife has the keys to. So if there is something that I am feeling bad about not telling her, but perhaps I am reluctant to start a conversation about or am not sure how to bring it up, I can just write it and put it in the box. And since I won't have a key, once it is in there, it WILL be read by her at some point and it is now out of my hands. I would put a picture of it here, but I don't think there is any way to do that in blogger.
-ZM
If you'd like, I can post it for you next week.
DeleteHi Dan,
DeleteThat would be great. Maybe it will provide some inspiration for someone else. I only spent a few minutes on it, but I have a laser cutter at my disposal, so that makes it all pretty easy.
-ZM
We are very similar. Cindy said a couple of days ago that you will be spanked for that, but nothing happened as we were busy the entire day. Yesterday I went skiing. I have no recollection of what the spanking was to be for, and I am certain Cindy does not remember also. A spanking delayed for awhile becomes a spanking not given. This morning, before reading this, I put the bath brush in the middle of the bed on a pillow, so I will ask later for the spanking I earned.
ReplyDeletebottoms up
Red
I hope the skiing was good. After having to take two full seasons off due to medical issues, I've had a pretty good season so far.
DeleteI admire you for asking for the spanking, though I don't know if it would work for me if I did have any real recollection of why I was being spanked.
Hi Dan,
ReplyDeleteDelay and avoidance are too much a part of our DD, but anticipation is usually not. When I have earned a punishment, I will do anything to delay it. But the fact is that I need and want this imposed discipline, so while I might feel good for a few seconds when I successfully delay a punishment, inevitably I regret it soon after. Sometimes my wife delays things, like if she is tired or not in the mood, and sometimes life just delays things for us, so between me, my wife, and life, a lot of delays happen.
I am working on not delaying things as often, but it may not change much unless my wife starts spanking me automatically at the first hint of delay. Even though I really want this relationship and want to feel her authority and discipline, I find it too hard to not try to avoid it when punishment is imminent.
Regardless of why delays occur, one thing that is very clear is that each passing day makes it much less likely that a punishment will actually happen. That is probably why we normally don’t do much with anticipation; if a spanking doesn’t happen immediately there is little to be anxious about, since it just as likely won’t happen at all.
However, I got to experience anticipation like never before on Sunday. My wife’s friend - the one who knows everything about our DD - called my wife and wanted to hang out. My wife told her that she was just punishing me, so to come over and I would not be in their way. I can’t even begin to describe what I was feeling during the time before she came, but I think it must be like the feeling of being sent to the principal’s office. My heart was in my throat.
My wife spanked me pretty well before the friend arrived, and then left me in our room, clothed only in a t-shirt and a lacy, frilly jock strap sort of thing, so I was covered in front (barely) but wide open in the back. My wife told me that “either her or her friend” would come in several times and continue the punishment, and that she would text me before each time, and I was to be waiting, blindfolded and kneeling on the bed with my bottom in the air.
The first time someone came in, I think my heart rate was about 300 BPM! Just to be clear, this friend has not even witnessed a spanking yet, so I was 99% sure that it would not be the friend coming into the room, but 99% sure is a whole lot different than 100% sure.
This was repeated twice over the next 40 minutes or so and then I was told that it was done and I was free to go use my computer. About an hour after the friend left, my wife finally told me that my wife had came both times, since the friend said she didn’t feel ready for that step yet.
I am still mind-blown by the experience. The anticipation was very powerful and greatly amplified the feelings. Plus, the embarrassment was much higher than when it is just my wife and I. Even though I didn’t come out until after the friend left, everything felt much different than when my wife merely told the friend about our DD; this time, she knew I was being spanked RIGHT THEN, and she heard the spanking taking place. And I of course heard them laughing off and on, so it felt like every bit of laughter was about my predicament.
It was a huge milestone for us: first time someone knew about a particular spanking, first time someone was around when I was spanked, first time someone could hear the spanking, first time that someone could walk in, see my naked red bottom (framed by not very manly underwear) and even spank me, and also now there is no doubt that the friend knows that I am aware of her knowing about us, since my wife and her had never talked about whether or not I knew about her knowing.
Truly a huge experience for me, and at least part of it - the part where I was red bottom up on the bed and not sure just who was going to walk in and spank me - ties in perfectly to this weeks topic on anticipation.
-ZM
"I am still mind-blown by the experience." I bet! I'm mind-blown just reading about it! That is an incredible development. I know I would have gotten mortified just knowing that my wife told a friend over the phone that she was just then in the process of punishing me. That alone would have been enough to completely amplify the dynamic between me and that friend.
DeleteI would have expected to feel that more mortified by hearing my wife tell her friend that, but surprisingly it was not all that big of a deal for me. I think this is partly because she had already told the friend everything, and even shown the friend some spanking implements and so on, so this was much different than if she told someone who knew nothing about our DD relationship. But probably a much bigger reason is because I knew the friend was coming over in an hour or so and I knew that I was going to continue to be punished while she was here, so that kind of trumped everything else; my wife telling her that she was punishing me just seemed kind of insignificant in comparison.
Delete-ZM
ZM wrote: “This time, she knew I was being spanked RIGHT THEN, and she heard the spanking taking place.”
ReplyDeleteI think I understand some of your feelings after that experience. It conjures up for me the first time my former G.F. spanked me in an adjacent room -- where her best friend (from college) could hear everything but see nothing. I have written about it before, so I won’t go into details.
But the first time was completely by surprise as it was for you except I knew it “could” happen “someday” just as you did. But when it actually does happen it’s like I imagine a psychedelic experience to be. You are acutely aware of everything that is happening but it’s like you are observing it rather than it happening to you and the whole experience is dreamlike, thanks I imagine to some pretty strong endorphins.
Mine didn’t last nearly as long as yours (probably 10 minutes from beginning to end, (not counting the corner time I had to do after they had left.) but I still remember it today with a weird mixture of embarrassment and erotic reverie.
My G.F.’s friend never did actually witness me being spanked but much later my wife’s sister has several times. Comparing the two types of experience –to me they are very different. I know my SIL is there to embarrass me and I am embarrassed. But it’s all very real and concrete. And nothing is left to the imagination. Also once the spanking starts, my attention is almost entirely on that.
But being taken into another room and know her friend knows what is happening but not being able to see her or interact at all my imagination just took over “what is she thinking”, “what does she hear”,” what is going to happen now” “ can I ever look her in the eye again” etc., etc. My imagination just ran wild long after it was over.
Maybe the oddest thing of all was the embarrassment factor. After I have been spanked in front of my SIL I no long feel much embarrassment. I do before the spanking especially during the scolding, but most of that is gone when it’s over. But I never got over the embarrassment with my former G,F,’s friend hearing it and I always felt a little sheepish around her.
Alan
While I've never experienced as an adult, I do think I can appreciate the embarrassment associated with someone knowing you are being spanked but not directly observing it. Growing up, I remember unruly kids being taken out church to be spanked. I remember cousins being taken out of the room to be spanked for something. I remember being sent to the principal's office thinking I would be spanked (I ultimately wasn't) and everyone in the class knowing that is where I was being sent. There definitely is something very compelling about knowing something is happening but not observing it, and it's probably as you say -- the imagination runs wild.
DeleteI also experience a bit of that with the very few people who know I get spanked and their significant others. I am always slightly embarrassed around the one vanilla friend I told. But, my imagination also runs wild about whether her husband or ex-husband now knows. I also have gotten to be close to a female blogger who is the sub in a D/s relationship, and I know her husband, who is a Dom, knows that I am spanked. Just knowing that he knows and that he is a dominant is kind of edgy for me.
I also must admit part of me is pretty envious of both you and ZM and that you have had these witness experiences. I doubt it will happen for us, but I've learned to never say never.
DeleteHi Alan,
Delete"You are acutely aware of everything that is happening but it’s like you are observing it rather than it happening to you and the whole experience is dreamlike." - This is a pretty accurate way of how I felt during this experience. It is so overwhelming that in a way you just kind of dissociate from it.
That is interesting how you have overcome the embarrassment with the sister in law, who has actually witnessed spankings, but always felt sheepish around the former girlfriend's friend, who only heard a spanking. I guess it is as you and Dan both said, that sometimes imagination runs wild and may even exceed the reality. And that imagination runs both ways, since it is not just them imagining the spanking they are hearing, but also you imagining how they reacted to it. Did they sit there smugly smiling? Did they laugh until they cried? Were they a little taken aback by the whole thing? You can only guess.
I think this whole imagination vs. concrete thing is what drives my long-lasting attraction to spanking (and domination-related) pictures - especially captions - and my comparative lack of interest in spanking videos. When I just see a picture, I can only guess what is going on. When there is a caption, it is like a little mini story, but with all the details to be filled in by me in my overactive imagination. But when I see a spanking video, I don't have to guess at any of the details, because I can see exactly how hard and long the spanking is or isn't, and usually I struggle with the poor "acting" and roleplay elements.
And Dan, you said: "I doubt it will happen for us, but I've learned to never say never." - August of 2020, when we first were talking about witnesses (or at least when the whole witness thing really came alive to me), my wife was very clear that "it is never going to happen."
-ZM
Less than two years seems like an incredibly fast pace for something like that. I'm really amazed, and I think the entire development is great.
DeleteDan,
DeleteI think many women who spank are open to sharing it especially with another woman. But she will also be very careful about discretion and need to have a high comfort level with that person. My former G.F. was probably interested in sharing that she spanked me very early but she still spent months or maybe years sounding out her best friend about her attitude toward spankings before she even told her. She then sent more time working up to spanking me where it could be heard even after her girlfriend showed interest.
Similarly my wife was comfortable if not actually eager to share her disciplinary authority with someone else. But she spent months sounding out a couple of close friends and her sisters before she acted. So I think the impulse to share is as strong with females as it is with males. But many are inhibited by the traditional role dissonance and concern about discretion.
Women with sisters they are close to, I expect, find opening up the easiest. I won’t try to predict what might happen in your relationship –but I think ZM’s admonition to “never say never” is good advice. If you are interested in more openness and perhaps having one of your spankings witnessed, you should make sure your wife knows you feel that way. It’s important for her to know that
Alan
"Women with sisters they are close to, I expect, find opening up the easiest." You're probably right, though for us this is a challenge. My wife and her siblings are not close, to say the least.
DeleteIt probably shouldn't be very surprising that sharing something like DD is pretty rare. I've had pretty close relationships with work colleagues over the years, and I still have some friendships that go back to college days. Yet, despite have a fairly significant number of friends and close acquaintances over the years, I know nothing or virtually no intimate details about any of their sex lives. I sometimes am aware of some dissatisfaction, like very little sex happening in their relationship, but it seldom goes beyond that.
I think that in general - but certainly not in every case - women are more inclined than men to talk about sex with their close friends or possibly sisters. But even talking about sex takes a fair degree of comfort and trust.
DeleteTalking about DD is similar to talking about sex, in that it requires that same closeness and trust (even more so), but with the additional hesitation of worry about how the person that is being told feels about things like spanking and for that matter any sort of kinky activity. So this results in the "sounding out" that Alan described. You maybe hint at it, see if they take the bait, and then possibly go with it a little more, constantly gauging their reaction. The nice thing about this is at anytime it is easy to fall back on making the whole thing a big joke and it will just be laughed off.
"But many are inhibited by the traditional role dissonance and concern about discretion." - These were exactly my wife's concerns in the beginning of talking about this. She doesn't want her friends to think she is a giant B, and of course you don't want someone blabbing it to everyone they know.
Having said all that, I think that if these obstacles can be overcome, it is at least somewhat of a thrill for the disciplinary wife to share with someone else just what authority she has and how she exercises that authority, because it is a pretty edgy naughty little secret.
-ZM
I do think women in general are more comfortable sharing intimate secrets than men and also more empathetic with other women where spanking is concerned. I don’t know if it’s a gender difference or culture conditioning but there is a difference.
DeleteI can’t imagine myself being very comfortable telling my best friend or brother that I spank my wife for discipline – or inviting one of them to see it sometime. Men are just not that open to sharing experiences with other men that might make them vulnerable
I remember one time (while drinking) I told a very good friend that my then girlfriend disciplined me with spanking and it had been something very good for both of us. I think I opened up to him because he was a good friend and also because he had a pretty serious foot fetish and I thought he would “get it”.
But that wasn’t what happened. He didn’t react negatively to me then or later but he also didn’t “get it “(why would you let her spank you?) His reaction I think was simply because it wasn’t his thing and he couldn’t imagine why it would be mine. Yet when my girlfriend told her friend and my wife shared with her sister, they both responded positively and with some empathy even though one knew nothing about adult spankings and the other only knew some.
Alan
I agree that men are just wired differently than women, especially when it comes to being comfortable with seeing each other's bodies, talking about anything even remotely sexual, etc.
DeleteAnd you are so right about the whole kink thing. You would assume that someone who has a kink would automatically be more open-minded about other kinks, but that isn't necessarily doesn't seem to be the case. I do expect that there are people who are more kinky by nature, who maybe have a lot of different kinks and are more open to even those things that aren't their kink, but it is also entirely possible - and probably pretty normal - for someone to have a kink, and maybe even for that kink to be very strong for them, but otherwise be entirely strait laced.
-ZM
I was going to mention the whole empathy thing but forgot. I agree that women tend to be - but of course not in every case - more empathetic. As to whether that is due to gender differences or cultural conditioning (or both) I really have no idea. I have visited quite a few places, but have only lived in two cultures, so I can only say that it seems to be true in both cultures in which I have lived.
DeleteI certainly agree that overall women tend to be more empathetic than men. But another thing, also related to empathy, just occurred to me that might also play into this specific case of the different reactions from your male friend, your girlfriend's friend, and your wife's sister. Could it be that part of the reason that your male friend struggled with hearing about DD was exactly because he could so easily picture himself as the one receiving discipline? After all, the conversations in all cases were about a male being spanked. If so, he could have in a way been more empathetic in a strict sense of the word. Perhaps he was more readily able to put himself in that position and feel the feelings that would accompany it, but just didn't like those feelings. On the other hand, when your former girlfriend told her friend that she spanked you, maybe that friend felt much more open to it than she would have had the tables been turned. And the same is true for your wife's sister. Would she have had the same openness to it had your wife told her that you physically discipline your wife? I don't know any of this, but it seems like because we are talking about a male being spanked by a female, maybe it is easier for a female to hear about it?
Another thing that I wonder is to what degree women being more open to hearing about this might be due to their own negative experiences with guys. Because our society (and most every other society in the world) is more male dominated, I think most women have had to put up with quite a bit from guys in the course of their lifetime. Men who have been rude or aggressive. Men who are immature. Men who get the job instead of the more qualified woman who is also in the running. I would think there would be a certain satisfaction of hearing about at least one guy being knocked down a peg or two.
In fact, as I have thought about the whole witnesses or participants thing over the past few years, one thing that I have always thought of is how much more intense the whole thing would be if the one witnessing (or especially if they are also spanking) has some reason. Either you did something to offend them in some way, or in the absence of that, perhaps some other guy did something similar to them to what you are being punished for. In that way, you are kind of a proxy for that other guy as well, and as they see you being punished or as they inflict that punishment themselves, it is not only you being punished, but also symbolically the other guy that did something similar to them.
-ZM
ZM,
DeleteYou raise many interesting points here. I suspect more than a few women wouldn’t mind seeing an offending male humbled with a spanking if the stars were otherwise in alignment. I have seen some interesting data albeit anecdotal that suggest that women who grew up to be real life disciplinarians were influenced by seeing naughty brothers or cousins reined in with strap or paddle, But even if that is mere conjecture I do have one real life example. My own SIL. was more than a little bit motivated to see me spanked who she saw as arrogant and sometimes overbearing. My surprise was that her attitude softened toward me afterward and we are now good friends and she has often been my advocate with my wife.
Alan
Sorry for the tardy response and general lack of engagement. I don't have a great excuse - I was just doing other things and kind of lost interest in the DD topic for a while. Which is a little surprising, because just a couple of weeks ago I felt very into it.
DeleteAlan, with respect telling a male friend who had his own kink, you said, "He didn’t react negatively to me then or later but he also didn’t “get it “(why would you let her spank you?) His reaction I think was simply because it wasn’t his thing and he couldn’t imagine why it would be mine." I think (hope) it's true that kinky people are less judgmental about other kinky people, but I don't think that tolerance or less negative judgment is the same as being interested. Your friend's reaction sounds somewhat like what happened when I told a female friend (also over drinks) about our DD relationship. We've talked about it a few times since that initial confession, and she even spent some time reading my blog. She told me she found the dynamic "interesting" but not "titillating" or stimulating. I don't think she's exactly kinky, but she is very open and non-judgmental. But, being open was enough to make her actually interested.
ZM said: "Another thing that I wonder is to what degree women being more open to hearing about this might be due to their own negative experiences with guys." It's possible, though I wonder whether it's also as simple as women have been disempowered in their dealings with men for a very long time, and DD is certainly empowering.
Hi ZM.
DeleteI wonder if your “disengagement” is not related to a kind of mental debriefing after your rather exciting (almost)” witness” experience. For spankos that attend parties and engage mainly in “erotic” spanking, the first time in a public setting isn’t probably that unsettling since everyone is sailing in the same boat and it’s all ( mostly) fun anyway.
But it has to be different in DD relationships where discipline is the focus and ones ego is very involved and usually the third party is not a spanko as such.
I don’t really remember how I felt in the days and weeks after my initial public spankings. I do remember the mix of burning embarrassment and erotic fascination that bubbled up in me early after.
But then I think I went into a fairly long reflective period about what had happened and what I wanted and even who I really was. All the defenses come down for a while and amid the clarity seems to come some lethargy. Looking back on it I think I must have been reflecting on whether I really wanted to be a spanked boyfriend (husband), did I really want to think of myself that way, and in particular did I want others to know or see it
Moving DD spanking from a private world to public is a huge psychological step for both partners, so you wife might be going through some sort of reflective pause also. For both my former GF and my wife it was sort of a victory lap, probably partly because of my initial reaction to it. For me I think it was a kind of integration of the role spanking now played in my life.
For me I think a lot of the fantasy was gone and I missed that. But having the real thing was more than worth it. But that all took some time
Alan
Alan,
DeleteThat is an interesting thing that your sister in law went from being motivated to see you spanked to becoming your advocate with your wife. It seems inevitable that just by someone witnessing a spanking, they would tend to become a little closer, since there is a certain shared intimate detail that most others don't know.
And Dan, certainly being tolerant and non-judgmental is much different than being interested. In fact, it is pretty much how I am regarding sexual preferences and gender identities. I believe I am quite tolerant and non-judgmental (though probably not perfectly so, but as I become aware of things, I work on them). At the same time, I don't have any real interest in these things.
As far as empowerment, I agree completely. In many if not most spheres of life, women have been disempowered compared to men, so certainly it must be a breath of fresh air to be empowered in the way that DD enables. And for those that do have bad experiences, then it may provide additional pleasure to see a male so completely disempowered, even if only temporarily.
-ZM
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ReplyDeleteLoved the “Even More” story, it’s my favorite
ReplyDeleteSame here. I don't know exactly why but that one really resonates with me.
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