Saturday, May 25, 2019

The Club -- Meeting 298 -- Empty Nesting


Hello all.  Welcome back to the Disciplinary Couples Club.  Our weekly gathering of men and women who are in, or interested in being in, Domestic Discipline relationships. I hope you had a good week.

Mine was tough.  We had something happen in the family last week that I won’t go into, but it left us all stressed, depressed and unsettled. 


And, then there was that Game of Thrones finale. What a letdown.  As if I wasn’t depressed enough, I can now think about what I could have done with the 80-plus hours that I devoted to watching and re-watching episodes of that series.  What am I going to do now to mindlessly waste my time?  And, while I appreciated the generous serving of gratuitous T&A, I did find myself identifying a bit too much with one of the characters.


During last week’s discussion, Darren brought up the topic of how life changes after we become empty nesters.  I realize this topic won’t resonate with every reader, as some won’t be at that stage of life.  But, based on past polling, many of us are.  It’s a topic we have touched on before, a little less than a year ago, but we do have some new participants, so why not do it again?  Moreover, going back and reading my last empty nesting post (post 255) forced me to confront a somewhat painful reality – sometimes things just don’t change very much even when you think they will and even when you say you want them to. 

It seems perfectly logical that having kids in the house would put some hard limits on fully exploring DD and FLR lifestyles.  And, for us, they did.  Like almost all couples who get into this lifestyle with kids in the house, we had to work around their little ears and eyes, which made things like instantaneous discipline difficult to pull off.  Lots of bad behavior went unpunished entirely.  When issues were addressed, sometimes it was so many days after the bad act that much of the emotional connection between the crime and the punishment was lost.  Logistically, the two things that changed the most over time were location and timing.  When we first began the kids were pretty young, and we could often get away with spanking sessions in the basement after they had gone to bed.  Though, who knows whether one or more of them overheard something despite our best efforts?

As they became teenagers, late evening spankings were less of an option, because the kids started staying up later than we do!  So, spanking tended to happen on weekends when they were out of the house, which alleviated some of the constraints on where spankings happened.  Now, they almost always happen in our bedroom.  But, our kids kind of liked hanging out with us and visited regularly.  So, there were many times that even Saturdays and Sundays proved difficult to find “alone time” for Anne to take care of business. And, we have never even thought about simply being totally open about the power exchange in the house, let alone the spanking piece.  Though, as we talked about last week, I do find the prospect of more open shows of authority morbidly attractive in the same way DD itself is morbidly attractive.  And, if Alan is right about there being a DD gene (I still have my doubts), for all I know one or more of the kids have discovered this thing we do and may not be repulsed by it at all.


But, we have always operated from the premise that this is something we keep to ourselves and have mostly acted accordingly.  So, having more time alone would theoretically lead to more freedom to explore this side of our relationship. Everything changes.  Kids graduate from high school, go on to have their own lives, and mom and dad are then left to move on and take their own lives in different directions, right?  Well, sort of.  I first took on this empty nesting topic back in 2016 when we seemed to be on the verge going into that new stage when we would have much more freedom.  I assumed that would mean big changes in the DD and FLR aspects of our relationship.  What I didn’t quite get at that time is that for this generation of kids, leaving the nest is a “process” not an “event.”  They move out the door and into the real world slowly and in spurts.  I didn’t really anticipate just how much they would still be around, visiting on weekends, holidays, summer vacations, etc.  And, when ours “left” for college they initially were within easy driving distance, so it turned out there were lots of nights when a hot meal at home seemed more attractive than ramen in a college apartment.

Last year, we thought that things finally were moving in a direction in which there really would be big blocks of time when we truly were empty nesting.  We talked expressly about what that meant for the Domestic Discipline and FLR aspects of our relationship.  As I said in Post 255:

She wants to take over, I want her to do that, and now there is just the little matter of execution.  Of making a hard left turn into a very different style of dealing with each other and trying to make much more real something that has been more of a goal than a reality.  Not that the DD aspects of our relationship have not been real, but they have been confined and departmentalized, bounded on all sides by a life that revolved around kids and, frankly, keeping kids from discovering much about this aspect of how their parents relate to each other.

That is what is really changing -- her ability or at least willingness to really step into a 24/7 role as Head of Household has always been met with the roadblock of observant little eyes and ears.  Which wouldn't be a problem if, like a small number of people who visit here, we were "out" about this aspect of our relationship, or at least not actively hiding it even in the privacy of our own home. But, we always have been.  So, with no one but us and the pets around, it really is a brave new world.

(I also included in that post some honest reflection about just how prepared I really was to move into a relationship that was more FLR-oriented and the extent to which that might entail getting much more than I asked for.  More on that in a later post.)

So, here we are, a year later.  The house is more empty than it has ever been.  We have the place to ourselves most nights and most weekends.  And, we’ve spent a couple of years talking about how much we want to put her more firmly in charge.  So, how much has changed?  Honestly, not that much.  In terms of frequency of spankings, it’s about the same.  In terms of more open expressions of her authority, also about the same.  My submission to her authority?  Very spotty and, if anything, the past month has showed some disturbing moves in the wrong direction.  What accounts for this lack of progress despite our new empty nest status?  I don’t really know, but here are some thoughts:

·        Circumstances change quickly but personalities and habits do so only slowly and with effort.  She wants to be more assertive but struggles to really internalize any sense of her own power.  I want to behave better, but I also have a fierce anti-authoritarian streak and some bad habits that have been such a part of me for 40 years that they have become a part of how I see myself.  Those things are hard to unwire.  You don’t just become a new person, whether more authoritarian or more compliant, based on good intentions.  And, frankly, neither one of us has really committed fully and completely to going down this path and doing what it takes.
·        Despite being together for a quarter of a century, I think we both are still kind of embarrassed about moving into new roles with each other.  In fact, it may be that we’ve been together so long that moving in a different direction feels less like a real change in the relationship and more like fantasy role playing.
·        Life is busy.  While the house may be more empty, we too are out of it a lot, especially me.  Business travel now generally takes me away from home several days a week.

One other angle on empty nesting that I am starting to suspect may be in play is that while it may present more opportunities for discipline it also may lead to more reasons for it.  I’m really starting to wonder whether my behavior is slipping because I don’t have to worry as much about being a poor role model.  While it is subtle, I do feel like in the last year I’ve lost some hard-won maturity and drifted back toward more of the guy I was right out of college and graduate school.  Now that I am no longer running my life around other people’s school, sports and social activities, life is more free, and I’m kind of acting out in response to the drop in family-related responsibilities.  Or, is this all just another spin on the classic mid-life crisis?  One is almost perfectly timed.

So, for those of you who have faced the empty nest in the context of a Domestic Discipline relationship, what changed?  And, what did not?  Did it, in fact, lead to her stepping more firmly and confidently into the role?  If so, did that happen gradually, or was there a moment when it seemed to all come together?  Or, is change harder and less dependent on the presence of others than we like to think?

72 comments:

  1. We went through that situation too. We had kids in the house but my wife was still in charge. My wife assigned me chores to do and they had to be done to her standards and on time. She did order me around in front of the kids but not in a mean way. More like I want you to do the dishes now or go out and cut the grass now.

    Spankings took place in our bedroom and my wife's daughter heard me being disciplined and spanked but we didn't know it until about a year later. Her daughter was 18 years old so my wife explained to her about a FLR relationship and that she spanked me when I misbehaved or didn't get my chores done on time.

    So what changer after her daughter moved out was spankings took place in the living room and sometimes in the kitchen. We didn't worry so much about the noise I would make or how loud my wife was lecturing me. Her daughter has walked in the house while I was being spanked once. My wife also has no problem telling her daughter if she calls on the phone that she would have to call her back because she was about to spank me. She does the same if her mother or sister calls although both of them has seen me being spanked.

    So there has been some change since we became empty nesters. Other changes are making me work outside in a two piece bikini or one piece swim suit and even getting spanked outside.

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    1. I wonder how many women who have never heard of DD or FLR still "dominate" in the way reflected in your first paragraph.

      Regarding your last paragraph, do you live in an isolated area, or just not care if someone sees?

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  2. Hi Dan,
    I am going to answer Danielle's comments to me here, since I doubt she would see them on last week's topic. If that is a problem, please feel free to move/delete them!

    Danielle said:
    First point: wearing a diaper filled with nettles? That fantasy is hot? Yikes! I fell into a patch of nettles once when I was a child, and I cannot imagine inflicting a punishment that cruel on my husband. Imagine if all disciplinary wives had imaginations as sadistic as the imaginations of some of you guys are masochistic.

    My response: Hi Danielle, while nettles do give you a good sting, I doubt that they are as bad as your remember them. Quite often childhood experiences are built up in our minds. I can tell you that when she uses nettles (which are everywhere in Eastern Europe where we live), they sting intensely, but then it settles down to kind of a throbbing glow that lasts about 5 - 7 hours. Then at some point, you realize that you no longer feel it. I am pretty sure that it is no more "sadistic" or "cruel" than a normal paddling.
    The things that are so impressive about nettles are:
    - they are completely quiet, unlike everything else
    - they are very effective before, during, after, or instead of spanking punishments.
    - since there is no impact, they can be used on pretty much any part of the body
    - after 6 hours or so, there is not even a hint that anything happened
    Having said all that, it is important to note that some people are allergic to them, and
    that of course would change everything.

    Most all of these "benefits/features" also apply to capsaicin cream, which we have also used to good effect to amplify punishments.

    Second point: I agree with you that the combination of private and public is hot, and I have an example of that. Whenever I spank my husband during daylight hours, I do it in the bedroom with the blinds and curtains open. For a paddling or a strapping, I make my husband bend over the edge of the bed with a folded pillow under his hips to raise his bum. If I use the hairbrush, I often sit on the end of the bed and take him across my lap.

    My reply: Great idea! I do think that there is something very powerful in the whole private/public thing. I am still trying to sort out my thoughts on this one. Sometimes things are very hot precisely because they are private and nobody else around knows what is going on. But at the same time, using Dan's words, the thought of someone knowing about or witnessing a punishment is also "morbidly attractive"

    Anyway, thank you for your comments!
    -ZM

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    1. I too go back and forth on the public/private thing. I have said many times that I really do not *want* DD to become commonplace. As Aunt Kay put it in a guest post here, "When we did things together with other DWC couples; like going to dinners, events, visiting for weekends, there was such a sense of liberation. Just hanging out, being able to talk about lifestyle stuff was amazing. It was like we knew we were special, we shared a kinky little secret when we were out among the rest of the world." I think that reflects the balance I find attractive -- that DD remains a kinky minority practice, but with enough openness to lead to some interesting and stimulating interactions.

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    2. Thanks for your response to my comment under the previous discussion, ZM. You could be right that the pain caused by nettles seems more extreme to me than it really is because I was very young when I fell into that nettle patch. BTW, an interesting bit of trivia about nettles: my grandma who was from the old country would but nettles in soups. She believed they had health promoting qualities.

      Dan, I agree that DD and FLR are the more exciting for being kinky and, therefore, secret. It's funny that kinkiness alarmed me and turned me off when Wayne first proposed that I should spank him, but the kinkiness if part of the fun for me now.
      Danielle

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    3. Hi Dan and Danielle,
      I think we are on the same page about the attractiveness of the kinkiness factor and the secrecy that naturally flows from that. I too would not really prefer for DD and FLR to become TOO mainstream because it is exciting that we are doing something a bit taboo!

      But despite the secrecy, there IS a rather large "morbid fascination" with what it might be like to have someone know about our activities or even witness something. I think that it is probably such a hot thought precisely because of the kinkiness and secrecy surrounding DD. And in fact, my wife and I were talking about it last week (since we often discuss what is being talked about on the forum) and we concluded that the only people we could possibly tell would be her sister and two of her friends. Just to be clear, we have no plan of telling them, but we were saying "if we did tell someone, it would have to be..." The interesting thing about it was that the reason we thought of these particular people is because her friends are both VERY sexually open-minded, and of course her sister is so close they could talk about ANYTHING. So basically, even though we try to make it very "real," it is also still quite sexual to us.

      One aside. In retrospect, I do really wish I would have had the courage when young to have done whatever it would have taken to cause me to experience very real punishments, like school paddlings. Not only would it have been entirely real, which we can only come so close to achieving now, but also I think it would have satisfied my curiosity and saved me a whole lot of thinking about it over the years.
      -ZM

      -ZM

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  3. This is Elizabeth's Frank. Becoming empty nesters has had a big impact on our sex life, particularly in "sexualizing the nonsexual," as Elizabeth describes it.

    But being empty nesters has not had much impact on our DD life because we had established our Friday spanking routine when our kids were teenagers. Actually, they were the reason for Friday being the day for our weekly sessions because they virtually always went out on Friday nights. At first our sessions were in our bedroom, where we kept our implements in a locked trunk, but after their comings and goings became quite predictable, we moved to the living room.

    Of course after the kids moved out we could have expanded from our weekly sessions, as I would have preferred. But Elizabeth has always been concerned that we might put too much emphasis on spanking, so we have maintained the weekly limit even though there is no family reason to do so. I argued that my behavior would be better with more immediate consequences, but this has become a hard limit for the spanker in the family, so the spankee must accept it!

    What has changed significantly since the kids moved out is more of Elizabeth's bossiness and my servitude. Such as me vacuuming naked, which of course never could have happened with kids in the home. Elizabeth is also much freer with her verbal aggressiveness. She previously in front of the kids would have asked in a sweet tone, "Did you forget to take out the garbage, my dear husband?" She now will say in a demanding tone, "Get that garbage out of the house like you should have done this morning, and put it on your Friday list!"

    I much prefer the second approach because it sexualizes the task for me. As a spanko, I have an erection taking out the garbage and fantasizing about the consequences of having forgotten!

    For me this is the biggest change of being empty nesters. We can be free in our home about sexualizing the nonsexual, and this has made life much more fun. My wife does far fewer chores, and I don't mind doing them because she has made them sexy!

    And of course our sex lives are much more free. We can have sex wherever and whenever we choose in our home, which certainlyvwas never the case with kids at home. Elizabeth has always maintained the tradition of a big greeting when I come home for work. She has always dressed nicely, met me at the door with a drink, a kiss, and a big hello in the best "50s wife" fashion. She did that in front of the kids, and I have always loved it (as did our children, though they teased us mercilessly about it). But now there is a sexual undertone to the greeting. I never know what she is going to do. Maybe she will "suggest" that I take off my work clothes and vacuum naked. Maybe she will lead me to the couch where she spanks me, and instead of bending me over it she will bend over it and flip up her skirt, revealing nothing underneath, and tell me to "get busy." Maybe the greeting will be exactly like it was when the kids were home. And because I never know where her mood will take us, coming home from work has been eroticized! Just as chores have been eroticized. Our whole lives, really. We could be watching television and she might say, "I know you're not really interested in this chick flick. Why don't you find something more interesting to do under my skirt?" Hooray for the empty nest!

    And all of this is connected to DD, I believe. If she hadn't started spanking me, her more aggressive and more sexual personality would not have emerged as it has. DD, empty nest, and her aggressive personality have been a great combination for us! My almost senior citizen wife is better looking and more sexual than she has ever been! Sometimes I think I died and went to heaven!
    Frank

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    1. Frank, it really is interesting to me the extent to which Elizabeth emphasizes that your relationship is DD and not FLR, yet much of the way you describe it seem to be pretty FLR-oriented. Though, as Danielle said, perhaps DD and FLR are more like a Venn diagram with overlapping circles than a spectrum.

      It's great that at a somewhat later stage of life, you have both sexualized things so much. We haven't gone in that direction yet either. To some extent, it is because one of our kids does drop by frequently and unexpectedly. Also, our house has very large windows and glass doors, so things like doing chores naked is not an option.

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    2. I like Daniella’s Venn diagram /continuum metaphor for distinguishing FLR from DD. But to some extent we tend to complicate the distinction. I am in a DD and have been for many years. Our understanding is that she has unquestioned authority to discipline and punish me for violation of her rules particular with respect to things that could harm or impinge our relationship. Her authority is unlimited in the sense she can punish anywhere for any reason she thinks necessary. However in practice we have carved out behaviors that threaten to damage the relationship, display immaturity, arrogance or deliberate disobedience. She is not H.O.H, for that matter, either am I. We pursue an equal relationship in which she is in charge of many things (including my discipline) and I am in charge of many other things. We try to split that down the middle as much as practical leaning to our respective strengths as a couple. In an FLR by contrast there is a clear leader, much less consensus about roles and a clear hierarchy in the relationship in turns of who call the shots. I see the differences as primarily matters of style and personality, with both working with different couples. I also imagine that some DD's evolve into FLR's as partners get to know themselves and each other. The power to discipline is powerful and just practicing it may bring out submissiveness in some males and dominance in some females not earlier present. That is one of the enormous advantages of F/M relationships. They are dynamic and change as you live them
      Alan

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    3. This is Elizabeth. We are very much like Alan and spouse. I lead some things and Frank leads others. Of course the things I lead are emphasized on this forum, and the things he leads are not. So while some of what we do is female-led, we do not have a female-led RELATIONSHIP. He is, has been, and always will be the head of the family, while since DD I have become head of the household. And I have become the primary instigator of our sex life. But he is our breadwinner and thus is in charge of finances, for instance.

      And when I greet him at the door after work and lead him to the couch and offer myself, believe me when I say that I want him to he all man and very much IN CHARGE.
      Elizabeth

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    4. Danielle here:

      I don’t have an awful lot to contribute to the change in FLR when kids leave the nest because our FLR got underway at about the time that we became empty nesters, so there was no before and after.

      I think Frank makes an obvious point: when a couple has the house to themselves, sexual activities can be much more open and spontaneous. He also raises another good point: if a guy gets turned on by his wife behaving in a bossy manner, everything can become sexual. For example, Wayne gets really turned on by the “unfairness” of his having to do housework while I relax on the couch with a book or go out for coffee with friends. And since I hate doing housework, it is easy for me to keep him horny all the time. LOL

      Like Elizabeth and Frank, we also exploit our empty nest status to give Wayne’s domestic servitude a CFNM vibe. But we prefer partial nudity, and a touch of feminization, to full nudity. Wayne’s usual housework “uniform” includes a somewhat feminine apron and a long t-shirt. Since he is naked from the waist down, the long t-shirt looks like an overly short mini-skirt that doesn’t quite hide his bare butt when the apron is tied at the waist. Sometimes to make him blush all the more, I add a pair of black fishnet pantyhose to the uniform. Try THAT with kids at home! ;-)

      Because I am able to keep Wayne in a state of constant arousal simply by being a bit of a bitch, he is in constant courtship mode, and that arouses ME. So like Elizabeth and Frank, we probably have a more intense sex life than most people our age. I feel grateful for that, and Wayne constantly tells me how grateful he feels.

      I like what Frank said about Elizabeth: “My almost senior citizen wife is better looking and more sexual than she has ever been! Sometimes I think I died and went to heaven!” Frank sounds like a real sweetheart. But that’s exactly how my husband makes me feel too. Sometimes I fret about starting to “look old”, but Wayne always tells me that I am worrying about nothing and that I look sexier than women half my age.

      My husband’s sexual enthusiasm motivates me to do my best to look sexy for him, the way Frank says Elizabeth does for him. To that end I like shopping for sexy clothes and lingerie, and I work out hard at the gym to maintain my figure. I suppose it’s part of his courtship schtick, but Wayne tells me that he regularly sees other men “checking out my ass” at the gym, and he says that guys have asked him in the change room if I am his wife, and have commented on how “fit” I am, which he says is code for “sexy”. I don’t know whether Wayne exaggerates that stuff to turn me on, but it works! LOL

      I don’t think Wayne is entirely making it up because guys at the gym, and even at work, do flirt with me sometimes, even guys who are younger than me. And the thing is, because of the empowerment I get from FLR, I feel free to play along to some extent with them. I suppose my openness to flirtation encourages some guys to flirt with me all the more. Don’t get me wrong: I’m not aiming to cuckold my husband when I flirt with other guys, but in the back of my mind I have a feeling that I actually could if I wanted to, and that makes me feel young and sexy too.

      Okay, I think I have strayed off-topic a bit. Well, not completely off-topic. Being empty nesters, I can tell my husband openly while having supper about some guy flirting with me, thereby stoking his arousal. I guess I couldn’t do THAT with kids at home. LOL

      Oh, and one more thing about empty nester sex of any kind: once the kids were gone, we discovered it is much more exciting in the light of day than at night.

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    5. Alan: "The power to discipline is powerful and just practicing it may bring out submissiveness in some males and dominance in some females not earlier present. That is one of the enormous advantages of F/M relationships. They are dynamic and change as you live them." That has happened to us to some extent. I think DD absolutely brought out in my wife a desire to dominate, or an appreciation that having power and using it can be fulfilling. For me, it is hard to say whether DD brought about a desire to submit, or whether my previously unperceived need for boundaries and rules was ignited by the Disciplinary Wives Club and corporal punishment is the expression of that need. I agree that the ability to grow and change can be a facet of an F/m relationship, though I think it probably is an ingredient in most relationships that last over time. But, DD and FLR may be somewhat unique in their ability to drive a mutual, consensual course correction of pretty major proportions later in a relationship.

      Danielle: I do get turned on by "unfairness," but generally not in the moment. I guess you could say I find the fantasy more fun than the reality, or maybe it is a reflection that everything seems better in retrospect. I definitely do NOT get turned on in the moment by chores or by responding to her order to do some task, but I do get turned on by what her giving those orders reflects about her taking on more power and authority.

      Your observation that you can keep your husband aroused by just being a bit of a bitch is a great one but something I suspect many DD wives struggle with. My wife and I talked about this a little just last night. I've known for a long time that my travel schedule gets in the way of her really taking the reins in an FLR, but I've always attributed that to the interruption and break in the momentum. Last night she told me that part of the problem is that if I am gone for a few days, she misses me and is happy to see me come home and finds it hard to switch into a "meaner" mode in that context. I get it, but maybe at some point she will be able to really internalize the truth that like many men, I find the open displays of authority and confidence very sexy.

      Dan

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    6. Danielle here:

      Dan, as we have discussed before, the “unfairness” thing is paradoxical. I don’t think Wayne actually likes doing all the housework either. In the moment, sometimes I can see that he bridles at the unfairness, but that only makes it more exciting.

      I feel at my bitchiest when I deny him an orgasm after he has given me a couple of good orgasms. That is so unfair because he puts time and effort into getting me into the mood and bringing me gradually to climax. And then there is the moment of suspense, when he waits to see what I will do. Usually I let him cum because it seems only fair. It’s not as though it takes any effort on my part. He is usually so worked up by then, and so hoping I will touch him “down there”, that I can make him cum in about 2 minutes with my fingers. Or if I’m really lazy, I can just tell him to jack off while kneeling at the foot of the bed and kissing my feet. It’s so easy, but sometimes out of pure capriciousness, I tell him I don’t want him to cum. I don’t think he likes that “in the moment”. I can see the disappointment in his eyes, but sometimes it’s exciting for me to do that. And you know what? Somehow he likes it too. I think maybe there is a cumulative erotic energy that makes it good for him to be unfairly denied.

      I do think the shape a FLR takes is very dependent on context. I can see how your work and travel schedule could break the momentum of your wife’s dominance, or just make her not feel like being a bitch when you get home. Likewise, I can see how Elizabeth can get into playing the role of “1950’s housewife” when Frank gets home after a long day’s work. In our case, there is a more natural FLR vibe because Wayne is one the one who stays home while I go out to work. That makes it easy for us to get into a gender role reversal, with Wayne greeting ME at the door like a 1950’s housewife. If our situation was like Elizabeth and Frank’s, or like yours and your wife’s maybe, I imagine things might be different.

      By the way, I don’t want to give the impression that my husband is not a proper man. He has always been the main breadwinner, and even though he is now my stay-at-home househusband, he still brings in more money than me because his pension is bigger than my salary. He also handles the finances, though he reports to me and I set the priorities. Considering that he actually has more income than I do, it is really unfair that I have HIM on an allowance, and when I am unhappy with some spending decision he has made, I will scold him that he has to be more careful “with MY money.” MY money. I love that! And so does he, apparently.

      So many factors enter into the kind of DD or FLR relationship a husband and wife will make for themselves. Honestly, if our situation was more like Elizabeth and Frank’s, I could see me being more like Elizabeth. Her comment about bending over the couch and “offering himself” to Frank, and wanting him to be “all man and very much IN CHARGE” sounds very sexy to me. But one might wonder how Elizabeth might be if she was the one going out to work while Frank stayed home, and if Frank had Wayne’s problem with erectile dysfunction. Maybe that would kill their sex life, because Frank wouldn’t be able to be “all man” the way she likes. Or maybe they would adapt and find erotic pleasure in the kind of FLR I have with my husband. Who knows?

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    7. "offering HERSELF". Damn typo! Sorry, Elizabeth. Maybe this gender role reversal stuff is getting to me. ;-)
      Danielle

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    8. The truth is that right now I have it both ways. Frank is all man when I want him to be, and my man-servant when I want him to be that. I feel blessed!
      Elizabeth

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    9. Danielle here:

      That’s great, Elizabeth. Enjoy it while you can!

      There’s something I feel I should add to my description of the FLR I have with my husband. A couple of years ago, I had a serious health scare. It turned out okay, but there was a period of time in which I didn’t feel dominant or bitchy at all. My husband continued his domestic service to me, perhaps out of force of habit or perhaps to show me that it was more than just an erotic game, but I didn’t “wear the pants” for a while, and I don’t think there was much erotic reward for him. I needed HIM to lead for a while, and he stepped up to the plate, giving me the support I needed.

      Once we were through the scare, we got our erotic groove back, and I reclaimed my position as the pants wearer of the house. The way I exercise my authority in the FLR, Wayne may appear to have been stripped of adult status. That’s part of the thrill of DD, isn’t it? But I know that on a deeper level he is fully my equal and that I can count on him to BE my equal, or more, when I need him to be.

      This got me to thinking: it may be frightening to some women to push FLR as far as Wayne and I do because a wife may fear that she will lose the man she married, and she may worry that she won’t be able to count on him to be HER leader when she needs him to be.

      Dan, I think you could see it as a positive thing that your wife doesn’t want to be bossy with you when you get home from a trip. You said she told you that’s because she “misses you.” I think that’s nice. She misses her big, strong guy when you are away, so bossing you around isn’t the first thing that comes to mind for her when you get home. Would you really want it any other way?

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    10. "it may be frightening to some women to push FLR as far as Wayne and I do because a wife may fear that she will lose the man she married, and she may worry that she won’t be able to count on him to be HER leader when she needs him to be." I have no doubt that is true, and I'm not sure whether here is a way to mitigate that fear, other than as you describe -- something happens and when the chips are down, he shows he can step up.

      A corollary to this that I've seen, mainly in M/f dynamics, is that the "sub" not only doesn't lead but becomes very dependent. They seem to need their husbands to do everything and freak out if he is gone for a few days and they have to handle things at home by themselves. I think that is a very, very unhealthy dynamic. I know from personal experience that important people in your life can be there one day and gone the next. If my wife and I were on opposite ends of the paddle, I would hate to see a dynamic develop in which she was so dependent that she wouldn't be able to handle things for herself if something happened to me. In fact, one reason I always wanted her to have her own career was that I wanted her always to be able to take care of and provide for herself if anything ever happened to me. I really don't know what some of the more dependent subs I've encountered would do if they suddenly found themselves alone.

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  4. The topic is empty nesting. But what catches my attention is the part about resisting a wife's authority.

    Resisting one's wife is perhaps the most self-defeating behavior I have seen (or done) in a DWC relationship. Everyone has their own reasons and excuses and rationalizations. We men who visit this blog are here becuase we want/need/desire a particular lifestyle experience.

    Those who actually have a spouse who is on board with it are among a very small percentage of men who long for it. Any act that undermines the woman's authority undermines her confidence and undermines the genuine fulfillment of the dream - OUR dream - that she has stepped into mainly FOR us.

    I hate to say this. But for any reader who indulges their own resistance at the expense of their wife's efforts to be in charge, to fulfill their dreams, needs to man up, shut up, and grow up. Again, sorry if I ruffle feathers. But I'm talking man to man here.

    Any by the way, every day of special relationship you squander is a day you will never get back.

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    1. As I said, I intend to treat this as a separate topic, so let's leave it for then.

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    2. Of course. I tend to spout off whatever comes up for me.

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    3. No problem. It is worth addressing with a full topic and, given how hard it is coming up with new topics week-to-week, I hate to mix and match here depriving me of a topic for next week.

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  5. Hi Tomy
    I agree with you completely that resisting your wife's authority is one of the most self-destructive things one can do. And that is probably particularly the case before she is completely empowered. In fact there is probably a point where you can no longer psychologically resist that authority. I know if I did it today my wire would soundly slap my face and have my pants down and nose in the corner before I could count to three. But for those just starting out maybe there has to be a grace period because for many the difference between a fantasy punishment spanking and a real one can be a staggering experience. With the girlfriend who introduced me to DD I never disobeyed her instructions to go over her lap but did (maybe three times) stop a spanking as it reached that point where I thought I couldn't take any more. This caused a lot of tension with us but she stayed with it and one particularly hard hair brushing I was just about to jump up again and then the thoughts started to form that this was what I wanted and needed and deserved and I was a wimp for not taking my punishment. I just relaxed and let it happen reaching that fulfilled numb zone for the first time. Afterwards my bum was a mess but she was very proud of me (and herself) and so was I. I never resisted her authority after that breakthrough and have never resisted my wife's authority either. But maybe young couples should expect some tension and resistance to authority in the beginning. If a women stays firm it will pass and for me at least once it has passed it doesn't come up again. Female authority once established is forever
    Alan

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    1. Thanks, Alan. But, again, can I please ask people to push out commenting until next week.

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    2. Dan- looks like a couple people need a spanking for not paying attention and following your instructions as H.O.B. (head of blogg) to hold off commenting on next weeks topic!!!!!! hehehe

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    3. Daren
      You need to check your post date stamps a little more closely before you criticize. Tomy posted initially at 7:55 am I responded at 8:11 am and Dan didn't ask for forbearance until 9:52 am. Assuming Tomy and I are not mind readers we could hardly have anticipated his wishes an hour or two before he expressed them.
      Alan

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    4. Alan....sorry about that, please don't take my comment seriously, I really wasn't criticizing....i was just teasing and having some fun is all. But yeah, sure it is kind of a fun mental image to envision your wife pointing , instructing you to bend over and then handing Dan the paddle as she crosses his arms and grins....LOL. Or having her deal w/ you not having a sense of humor!!!!!!!!!!! ; )

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    5. Actually, the time stamps aren't controlling, because my comment to Tomy, which begins with "As I said . . ." relates back to a statement in the original blog post that that first alluded to the disobedience incident, and then said that I wanted to save talking about it for a later post. After you and Tomy both commented on it, I took out the entire reference to it in the post. Because it seemed to be picking up steam, I decided to cut off any further comments by not giving people something to comment on.

      But, on a larger issue, WTF is with all the confrontational reactions to things lately? When I didn't post a week ago, I had really hoped not to have to do much with the blog and instead had to end up policing things as people took potshots at each other left and right. I really don't want to have to turn comment moderation back on now that we finally seem to have shaken Gravano and even, to some extent, Sean. Let's all try not to take offense so easily and to read into other's comments some personal attack that may not have been their intent.

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  6. On empty nesting we have a few years to go before that is a reality here. On being heard I am astonished that so far no evidence of the kids knowing as accrued but I am happy if it stays that way for a while. Cheers Good Life Mickey.

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    1. We had kids in the house regularly for over a decade of DD. As far as I know, they never found out. But, "as far as I know" is a pretty important caveat.

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  7. Dan,
    Since our kids moved out several years ago, it makes everything much easier. Sometimes we will be sitting on the sofa watching TV and my wife Lola will just spread her legs and pull her panties over to the side. She does not have to say anything because I know what she wants and what I am supposed to do. I will slowly bring her to climax orally and she will let her panties go back into place and we will go back to watching TV. Sometimes she will call into the living room in a stern voice if I have forgotten to turn the bedroom lamp on and it is dark in the bedroom. She may have me bring the paddle to her right then or she may be standing in the bedroom with the paddle in her hand when I get in there. Either way, she will immediately have me bend over the bed and pull my underwear down so she can remind me that making sure the lamp is on before it gets dark is my responsibility. By the time she is through, I most definitely have the lamp on my mind for the next few weeks. Whatever issue Lola has with me, she is able to address it right then. This has made things much easier to keep a consistent FLR relationship. Sex and discipline are much more consistent now.
    Drew

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    1. Thanks, Drew. Sounds like empty nesting has been a great positive for you.

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  8. For a variety of reasons, our empty-nesting has been limited this year.
    We started a journal in the winter, each of us writing down our FLR/DD thoughts, offenses and penalties, etc. We still have it, of course, but it's no longer on top of the dining room table.
    Spankings are rarer - our strap is put away, and the other implements go back to being used for brushing hair, flipping eggs, and drawing straight lines.
    But having to wear clothes in my own house is the biggest change for me! Chores are much more pleasant in a CFNM or all-nude context. Likewise for morning coffee or evening tv - au naturale is the best.

    CrimsonKing

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    1. That is too bad, but it may be similar to what I alluded to when I said I had learned from experience that empty nesting is more of a process than an event.

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  9. My potentially empty nest was repopulated when I met Rosa, so I have nothing to offer.....or get riled up over.......this week.

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    1. I don't know if I could handle going from relative freedom to its opposite, though we also are not nearly as open as you.

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    2. Like KD, my potentially empty nest was repopulated when I met my new wife. My previous wife had left a few years before and I was raising our children alone. One had went off to college and the other was very close to leaving when I met my wife. She has one child who is several years younger, so we won't be empty nesters for at least another couple of years.

      I am just beyond happy in my remarriage, but I can also honestly say that one of the hardest things for me has been this transition from having relative freedom almost within reach, and then having it pushed back several years. Thankfully, I love my new child and we get along great, but still I find myself frustrated from time to time about the delayed freedom!
      -ZM

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    3. Way before DD, when our kids were younger, my best friend and I set up quarterly overnight play dates. My kids would spend an overnight at her house one weekend, and her kids would overnight at my house the next weekend. It was well understood by all four parents that the purpose was uninhibited sex with the kids out of the house. Frank and I looked forward to these "play dates."
      Elizabeth

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  10. Hope everyone had a great holiday! OK first a quick comment...don't get me started on the final season of G.O.T. talk about mailing it in.

    Dan, you put a current dynamic into such perfect perspective saying that w/ kids these days moving out is more of a process than an event. And as such having others around often means infractions can easily end up not getting addressed or when they do as you put it, "the emotional connection between the crime and the punishment was lost.." I guess that's what I was curious about if/how that changes. Maybe I was envisioning more fantasy versus reality again but was expecting to hear more stories about that first time the hubby hears his wife calling from the kitchen "can you come here for a second" to be greeted by her standing there asking "how many times have i told you about this". But given how long we have been used to the consequences being pushed off and even knowing they may never even materialize....having a shock go down his spine as she for the first time is able to spontaneously instructs him to bend over the kitchen island NOW....pulling down his pants...and grabs an implement, wooden spoon, spatula etc out of the drawer and getting a severe spanking right then and there. The result being (other than a very sore bottom) him having the realization that from now on he WILL get spanked where and when he deserves it. the days of punishments being pushed off or forgotten now gone. That moment has to be an emotional and mental game changer that life as he knows has now truly changed. In short I guess I was seeing that once you are truly alone together it is then that true DD starts.

    I was glad you mentioned the whole idea of the 2 of you being EMBARASSED w the new roles. That's so true....you sorta feel like high school kids blushing about acting this way wondering if it's really OK. It never occurred to me that would happen. So was glad to hear it's not just us.

    And as for the mid life crisis, “acting out” ...yeah we do things now simply because we can. The new found freedom we feel is sort of similar to when you went off to college and adopted a bit of a “I do what I want because…I can” attitude. I don't know what others college experiences were but that degree of sudden freedom ended up being a bit problematic for me. Not completely dissimilar to me getting to a stage in life both personally and professionally that I have little accountability to anyone. I have the attitude to pretty much do as I want....and similarly to college days, this new found freedom isn't good for me. For a guy that has fought authority and rules all my life I have come to now feel I need so boundaries and guard rails imposed again for my own good.

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    1. This is all very true to my own experience. If anything, I am surprised by how little has actually changed with the empty nest and how much we have stuck with our old habits. I also totally get your comment about getting to stage where personally and professionally you have little accountability to anyone. At work, there isn't a lot anyone could do to me other than fire me, and if they did it would probably hurt them more than me. Which, honestly, feels much like high school when I had no rules and, paradoxically that meant not more freedom but rather feeling more burdened with responsibility.

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  11. Interesting comments on this topic...I will give my input in 18 years give or take.

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  12. This is Elizabeth's Frank. I wish that our empty nest included the threat of a spanking at any time. I think that would keep me on best behavior constantly, knowing that she could send me for the paddle at any moment. I know that constant threat would be a turn-on!

    Not that I am complaining about our Friday routine. The anticipation of what is to come also is exciting ... and motivating. I can estimate how many strokes I am due and think, "My goodness, I better behave myself the rest of the week or I am really going to be sore."

    But I do wish that the wherever whenever we have with sex in the house was also true of punishment now that kids are gone.
    Frank

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    1. Hi Frank. I can understand that trade-off between certainty and spontaneity.

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  13. Elizabeth...I totally get what you're saying about keeping it a bit compartmentalized so sticking w/ the friday routine....but after a protracted period of time w/ your ability to discipline him becoming more second nature between you....hasn't there ever been a time or incident that had you almost reflexively reaching for the hairbrush w/out even completely thing about it???

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  14. You all have to remember that Frank is in a 12-step program for addiction to spanking porn. His spanko side definitely needs controlling. That is why we hold weekly sessions.

    There have been exceptions when I have "seized the moment" for some particularly egregious behavior. They are few and far between, however. Maybe I will suggest to Frank that he relate one.

    This is one area that must be female-led, for the health of both of us.
    Elizabeth

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    1. I find the discussion about spontaneous spankings versus weekly sessions interesting. Personally, I like to spank spontaneously when I see the need. What is interesting is that Wayne has occasionally proposed that we should have scheduled weekly session like Elizabeth and Frank have.

      Maybe Frank wanting more spontaneous spankings and Wayne wanting scheduled sessions is a simple matter of the grass looking greener on the other side of the fence. But I think I can understand both Frank and Wayne. Frank says “the constant threat” would be a “turn on” for him. I think that is true for Wayne too. However, I think Wayne is attracted to the idea of set weekly spanking sessions because overall that would actually increase the frequency of spankings in our house. Occasionally I may spank Wayne twice in a week, but then I may not feel the need to spank him for a month. I guess that Wayne and Frank would both like to have it both ways. Wayne doesn’t want weekly sessions to replace spontaneous ones; he would like to have both. He uses the term “maintenance spankings” for those weekly ones he would like to have. I guess that is a standard thing among many practitioners of DD, isn’t it? That way he could look forward to a spanking at the end of the week even when I’m perfectly satisfied with his behavior and attitude, right?

      Though Elizabeth and I have different spanking regimens, I like her statement that spanking is “one area that must be female-led, for the health of both of us.” I am with Elizabeth 100 % on that! For that reason, I made it clear to Wayne from the outset of our FLR that spankings would be entirely on MY terms, and that FLR wouldn’t work if he was expecting me to act out some scenario he got from years of addiction to spanking porn. (Wayne and Frank have that background in common).

      So, I hate to say it, Frank, but you won’t get any support from me on that point. I agree with Elizabeth that she should call the shots when it comes to managing your need, and your desire, to be spanked.

      Danielle

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    2. Danielle,
      From someone who has been there with spanking porn I agree with you strongly that a wife needs to establish her own style, rhythms and routines being careful to not get sucked into a guys fantasy. Moving a husband from fantasy to reality is the big payoff in DD and the beginning of real behavior modification.But I must say something about spontaneous spanking or "on the spot" as a former girlfriend called them. They don't happen very often in this house ( maybe once a year) but when they do, WOW.I think I remember every one I ever received, why I got it and where it happened. They are incredible efficient at making an impression maybe because they are compressed in time, directly linked to misbehavior and and bring out a lot of emotion from both partners.My wife's use of them is just about perfect. I know they can happen at any time which keeps me on my toes but she actually doesn't employ them very often
      Alan

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    3. Wait! Elizabeth; there is a 12-step program for spanking porn?

      Dan - I really don't want to cause another distraction from your empty-nesting subject. But this is shock-value news to me. I would like to know more about this. So can you find a place for wherever it fits in?

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    4. Alan, I have a funny story about “moving a husband from fantasy to reality.” A few years ago Wayne ordered a book for me about FLR. It was advertised as a “realistic, practical guide.” I don’t remember the title. I think it was something like “All for Her.” I can’t find the book in the storage room. Wayne might have burned it. LOL

      When the book arrived and we read it together, Wayne was shocked and disappointed, and I was amused. The book argued that the woman in a true FLR should NEVER spank the man or give him any of the other kinky “punishments” he probably craves due to his exposure to femdom porn. It explained that the man will BEG to be spanked, but the woman must not give into him because if she does, she will allow herself to be turned into a slave to his kinks. It said that when the man says he needs to be spanked so he can be a good, obedient submissive, the woman should answer that if he truly wants to be “submissive”, he should be obedient without demanding the kinky trappings of fantasy FLR’s. If the woman is going to spank at all, it argued, she should do it as a reward rather than a punishment, perhaps on his birthday. The logic was incontestable.

      Needless to say, I rejected the advice of that book, after making Wayne sweat for a bit while I thought about it. ;-)

      I rejected it because it seems to me that FLR is a kink in itself, and it seemed unfair for me to demand that my husband “submit” to me in a way that benefitted me but didn’t push any of his erotic buttons. I mean, domestic servitude may be even kinkier than spanking, and I immediately took a liking to THAT kink, which the book DID encourage. LOL. So why deny hubby a form of discipline that he craves? I also began to the enjoy the power of meting out spankings and other punishments, so I think our form of FLR is much more fun than the austere “kink free” form recommended by that book.

      I guess a man asking for simple DD rather than FLR isn’t open to the logical trap that book revealed about men asking for full FLR’s. I wish I could find that book so I could give you the name of it. Wayne claims he didn’t get rid of it, but I’m not so sure. I think I will paddle his bum just in case. ;-)

      By the way, I don’t feel like a slave to my husband’s kinks. I don’t know whether he does what he’s told because I spank him, but I do know that he does what he’s told. And that includes ALL the housework, which makes me feel like anything but a slave. :-)

      Danielle

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    5. Alan, same here. There have been very few "on the spot" spankings for me, but I do remember them distinctly.

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    6. Danielle here:

      I seem to be the outlier here as a spontaneous spanker. Am I correct to assume that weekly sessions are the norm among the DD couples represented here?

      The nature of my spontaneous spankings seems to be different too. Alan and Dan, if I understand you, when your wives give spontaneous or “on the spot” spankings, it’s because you have done something that has made them so angry that they can’t wait for the scheduled session. And in that case, the spanking is so harsh that you remember it for a long time. Is that right?

      I’m almost the opposite in that sense too. The harshest spankings (or rather strappings) I have given Wayne have been the least spontaneous. The angrier I am, the more likely I am to delay punishment. That allows me to think it through, and it allows Wayne to stew about it before it happens. Those are rare.

      Spontaneous spankings, on the other hand, allow me to correct his behaviour or attitude and to let off steam before there is any major built up of anger. For example, I might be annoyed that Wayne has done a half assed job on some chore. Or more often lately, I might be annoyed if I am speaking to him and his attention is divided between me and some stupid political argument he is having on Twitter. I can see when his attention is not entirely on me, even though he may be visibly resisting the urge to look at his iPad while I am speaking. I hate that!

      So then, what will typically happen is that I will be scolding him or just explaining my displeasure, and he will get defensive, argumentative, or just…I don’t know…pissy. Maybe he will even make some sarcastic comment or roll his eyes, bringing my displeasure to a spontaneous tipping point.

      Then I will just say, “You know what? I’m done arguing. You can just go the bedroom and wait for me with your pants down.” I like the instant effect that has on him. Sometimes if he thinks I am being unfairly critical, he may try to argue a bit more, but I will just cut him off with one word—“Now!”—and point towards the bedroom.

      I may follow him to the bedroom after a couple of minutes, or I may make him wait for up to half an hour while I do something else. I know he will be waiting obediently in position, bent over the end of the bed with a pillow under his hips to raise his bum, with his pants and underpants around his knees. It turns me on to think how humbling that must be for him, especially because it is his stubborn pride that usually leads to punishment.

      When I go to the bedroom, the “discussion” resumes in a one sided manner, using my hairbrush or the paddle to drive my points home. Sometimes my scolding will take the form of rhetorical questions to which he knows the proper answers. I have the feeling from what I have read here, that I am not a harsh spanker. I think I make these spontaneous spankings more humbling than physically painful, though I am not satisfied that the spanking is complete until his vocalizations and his body language show a certain amount of physical distress. Once I have put him place and asserted my authority this way, he is always as sweet and compliant as can be. As discussed in a previous week, I sometimes add some other consequence to the punishment. For example, I might confiscate his iPad for a couple of days if my annoyance relates to his Twitter escapades. I like the way spankings make him compliant to these further displays of authority.

      I have a question for you men who are subject to weekly punishment sessions. Aren’t there weeks when you have been so good that your wives have no real reason to spank you? What happens then?

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    7. No, mine aren't really scheduled in any sense, and not weekly. They just always seem to happen on the weekend, probably by virtue of (a) when we have had any reporting mechanism in place, it has tended to involve weekly reports delivered on a Saturday; and (b) weekends were when the kids were least likely to be around. And, for whatever reason, she just hasn't done them more spontaneously since the nest became emptier.

      When you has done them spontaneously, I think the memorability was more related to the fact that everything went so abruptly from me sitting their minding my own business to getting a hard spanking. On the rare times it has happened, it has been something like I did some chore badly or not at all, she had enough, and out of the blue ordered a spanking. Another time, she decided to give me a spanking before a party at which, if history was any guide, I was likely to misbehave. In both instances, I just didn't see it coming, which is probably what made those memorable.

      Ours are less than weekly but, sadly, no there are few weeks when I have been good enough that I didn't do something that provided a real reason. Maybe one of ten? At most.

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    8. This is Elizabeth's Frank. My wife asked me to relate an on-the-spot spanking, and this incident a couple years ago is the most memorable - and certainly was effective. It also eventually shows Elizabeth's wonderful sense of DWC humor and sexuality for which I adore her.

      We were in our living room one evening, Elizabeth was reading and i was watching tennis on television. Two women players from Eastern Europe or Russia whose names end in A (don't they all). I rewound the show to watch again a slow-motion replay. Elizabeth looked up from her magazine and watched it with me.

      She got up from her chair, took the remote out of my hand, and paused the TV. I knew something was up.

      "Why did you replay that replay?" she asked.

      "I don't know. It was an interesting shot," I said.

      "I'm sure you thought it was an interesting shot of her skirt flipping up," my wife said. Then she rewound the TV and replayed the player's skirt flipping up in slow motion detail, revealing her tennis panties.

      "I have noticed that you only watch women's tennis, never men's," Elizabeth said. "So is that what you are doing, watching their asses? And don't lie to me!"

      I nodded yes quite miserably.

      "So instead of porn you now stare at women tennis players and fantasize?" she asked.

      I nodded again.

      "Take off your clothes while I get the paddle and the strap," she said, and marched out of the room.

      She proceeded to make me bend over the couch with my head up, watching the TV, and she resumed the match while thrashing my behind. Periodically she would ask, "Are you enjoying their asses now?"
      "No, Ma'am!" I would reply.

      I definitely got the message, and I was banned from watching women's tennis.

      But the best part was when I came home from work the next day. Elizabeth was wearing a tennis outfit with a short skirt. We both laughed and she spent the evening flirting and teasing me with it, spinning around so her skirt flew up. And that night made me service her orally while I got nothing.

      Did I learn my lesson? YES! Am I in love? YES!

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    9. Danielle- I don't mean to come across as a suck up but....lol....given the broad spectrum of DD/FLR , you and I just happen to be in the exact same place. How you describe how you handle things in the moment is EXACTLY what I want/need. That's what brought my comment about this up in the first place....having kids around prevents my wife from handling things exactly the way you do ... and i'm hoping/looking forward to a time when she/we have the ability to handle things like that in the moment. While we don't usually like to use the "kids analogy"......when I read the; not paying attention to you, rolling their eyes, muttering under their breath, talking back, getting sarcastic.....isn't that EXACTLY the type of behavior you get, but won't accept, from your kids!!!! When it gets to that point w/ them....you address it right then and there...because you can and should. You don't put it on a list to address w/ them at a later date. It's natural and reflexive in that moment. And wile it's taken a bit for this light to go on w/ me, I've come to realize that Jesus.... I do the exact same thing to her!!!!! Hence my question about the potential change in how things get handled when given the freedom and latitude provided by being alone. So I really don't have an opinion to weigh in with over scheduled vs scheduled, to each his own and whatever works. However, I can say for myself, I think it will have a pretty significant impact on my behavior when I've been taught the lesson that it's a new day and behavior like that isn't going to be tolerated or let slide any longer...it's going to be addressed then and there. As a quick aside, you also mentioned something that she doesn't do currently but I know would really get to me. The behavior you described is the epitome of "if you're going to act like a child...you're going to be treated like one".....so some of the ancillary components you employ like "being sent to my room"....having my iPad taken away...getting grounded.... would kill me (of course in an awesome and effective way). Man. I'm lucky I don't live at your house....LOL.

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    10. OK just reread my entry and retracting my closing "joking" comment.....LOL. While I likely wouldn't end up describing it as "enjoying"..... sounds like some time "at your house" would do me good....LOL...LOL

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    11. Danielle,
      This is Elizabeth. To answer your question on weekly sessions, we do NOT do maintenance spankings. I don't believe in them. If there are no transgressions, there is no punishment. But that is rare! How? Because Frank and I both keep detailed lists and I punish for minor infractions. He self-reports everything: glancing down the blouse of a girl at work, playing with himself (even without completion), saying the F-word, driving aggressively, etc. And so do I: not opening a door for me, socks on the floor, late doing dishes, snippy tone ... There is something to spank him for about 50 weeks a year!

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    12. Yikes....given that list of infractions you listed, I'd end up living perpetually bent over!!!! LOL. Thank god my wife doesn't read this!!!!

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    13. You didn't get nothing, Frank. You got hours of an erection while watching my white pleated tennis skirt. Plus you got to service me orally, which we both know you now enjoy (even if you would never admit it to your macho buddies).

      I might add to Frank's story that I kept him bent over the couch for the entire 3-set tennis match, which was only about half over when we started, so easily an hour of punishment time. He got a serious thrashing.

      Why did I break my Friday rule? Because I was pissed off that he was ogling women on TV right in front of me and thinking I was so oblivious that he could get away with it! Still makes me hot to think about it. And I admit I enjoyed repeatedly asking him if he was enjoying watching their asses while getting his beat. He was shouting "No Ma'am" quite loudly. I figure he now associates watching women's tennis with pain, though I haven't let him test it yet.

      And yes, I went out the next day and bought a tennis outfit to surprise him. If he wants to stare at a woman's ass, it needs to be mine! And I will dress it up any way he likes!

      Which brings us back to the topic. None of this would have happened if we were not empty nesters!
      Elizabeth

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    14. LOL, Darren. Don’t worry about your joke. No offence taken. But your comment that some time in our house might “do you some good” got me to thinking. At this time of year some fairly heavy outdoor work is added to Wayne’s indoor domestic duties. So some help from a younger man could certainly be useful. But I don’t know how your wife would feel if I ended up having to paddle YOUR bum as well as Wayne’s. ;-)

      Sorry, I’m being naughty, but I couldn’t resist.

      Seriously though, you are lucky that you are getting the discipline you need from your wife at such an early stage in your life. Wayne first asked me for DD when our kids were still in school, and I rejected the idea. I wish I had had the wisdom to understand the benefits of FLR and DD back then.

      Danielle

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    15. I love your style, Elizabeth! Frank was a very naughty boy, and lucky to have you to show him the error of his ways. I loved the inventiveness of your punishment of Frank for taking a little too much interest in those young women playing tennis, and the way you used that discipline to refocus Frank’s attention on you, where it rightly belongs.

      Thanks for your explanation of the kinds of infractions that get Frank spanked almost every week. With your minute attention to details like looking at some younger woman or touching himself or swearing or driving aggressively, I can see how weekly spankings would be in order. I suppose that with a detailed checklist like that, Wayne would merit more regular spankings too. I spank based on my own feelings about his behavior, and I suppose that makes me permissive compared to you.
      Danielle

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    16. Danielle here:

      Elizabeth and Frank, your amusing and sexy story reminds me of an incident I had with Wayne.

      Wayne took me out to lunch at a nice little restaurant in the country one Sunday last fall. Our server was a pretty young woman. Based on her age, I think she was a college student. She was wearing a white blouse and black skirt. That’s just traditional dress for a waitress in a nice restaurant, but because of the snugness of the skirt and the décolleté of her blouse, she came across as a little bombshell. I could see that, and I could see the effect she had on my husband and on every other man in the place. You could tell that she could see it too, the little minx. ;-) The shoes she wore had heels that were probably a little too high for maximum comfort in that job, but I am certain she had calculated the amount of extra money she would make in tips as a result of the additional pertness those shoes gave her shapely little bum. LOL

      When she came to the table and began explaining the features of the menu to us, I could see instantly that her personality was as charming as her looks. She had a lovely smile and an open, amiable manner that was hard not to like. Now, maybe this is my female cynicism about my own sex, but I couldn’t help feeling that the light of her smile beamed a little more brightly on my husband than on me. I don’t blame her for that. She knew were her tip was likely to come from. She had Wayne eating out of her hand. And each time she turned to walk away, I could see Wayne’s quick, guilty glance at her tightly packaged bum. It was kind of cute to watch, to be honest.

      Long story short, at the end of the meal she gave the bill to Wayne—of course—and I let him pay the bill with his credit card. She thanked us both warmly as she ripped off the credit card statement and handed his copy to Wayne. I could see that she was happy with what she had seen on the statement, so on the way out to the car, I asked Wayne how much he had tipped. He tried to be vague, saying she had given good service, etc., etc.

      “How much?” I repeated. At that point, he looked guilty. LOL So I made him hand over the credit card statement and confirmed that the tip was generous indeed. Now, I don’t begrudge servers a good tip, but I felt Wayne had tipped for more than the service. On the way home, I gave him a proper scolding. Not only had he spent more of “my money” than necessary—I always refer to our money as “my money” in such situations—but I took exception to his foolishness from a feminist perspective. Had our server been a less alluring woman or a young man, he would have tipped less, and that’s unfair. Under questioning, he sheepishly acknowledged the truth of that.

      When we got home I gave him a proper paddling with the decorative cutting board from the kitchen. It seemed more appropriate than the hairbrush. After the first few smacks, I paused and asked him what he thought our waitress would do if he could see “Mr. Big Spender” now. He gave a muffled reply, so I gave him another hard smack and said, “I can’t hear you.”

      “She would laugh?” he asked tentatively.

      “You’re darn right she would!” I scolded. “And with good reason. Look at you! A man your age having his bottom smacked by his wife for trying to impress a young woman.”

      I continued the spanking and scolding until Wayne’s bum was as red as his face. Then I was so turned on by imagining the young woman actually knowing what she had brought down on Wayne that I made him go down on me immediately after the spanking. And while he was doing that, I continued the taunting and teasing, inviting him to imagine how that young woman would laugh if she knew Mr. Big Spender couldn’t maintain a decent erection if his life depended on it. Okay, I know that sounds cruel, but did it ever turn both of us on!

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    17. Hi Danielle,
      Loved the story! Just perfect... In fact, one of the things that I often find myself in hot water over is being a bit too friendly or flirty (or simply looking a bit too closely) in restaurants. Of course my wife knows my heart belongs only to her, but she enjoys giving me a hard time about the excessive attention I give younger girls.

      -ZM

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  15. Tomy
    There are a number of 12-step groups for sex addicts. That includes porn, of course, and porn of different kinks. SAA is Srx Addicts Anonymous. SA is Sexaholics Anonymous. SLAA is Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous.
    Frank

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  16. Hi Dan,
    I can't say much about the empty nest theme, because we simply are not quite there yet, as I indicated above. But what I can say is that not being empty nesters really limits our flexibility with DD.

    First off, punishments seldom can happen immediately because we are not often alone. We don't currently have a fixed time that we do things like the several Friday folks here, but still there is a certain forced rigidity in that she punishes me when she thinks it is necessary, but only at the next opportunity so there is almost never any real spontaneity.

    Secondly, and more importantly, when we actually ARE alone, neither of us are that crazy about taking too much time for DD, since we want to fit in all kinds of alone time, including sitting around and talking, going for walks, intimate times, etc. It feels kind of artificial or forced that we have to do punishments during these rare time slots.

    Also, several people have mentioned not wanting to have DD take over the relationship, and we definitely feel that way as well. But one problem with having such limited time alone is that if we do try to fit a lot of DD and FLR type things into a short period of time we are alone, then for that period of time it does feel like DD/FLR are getting too much focus.

    Now, only time will tell if, how, and how much all this will change when we finally are empty nesters, but I can certainly say that it should be better!

    -ZM

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    1. 20 lashes with a switch takes about 10 seconds and is virtually silent. My job is to stay as silent as the switch. It burns like crazy and is totally effective. The whole punishment is shorter than a pee break. We find time to take a quick break usually within an hour of my misbehavior. The kids know nothing. And there is virtually no "alone time" expended. But a fearful lesson is imparted. Every three nights I go outside after dark and cut a fresh one and discard the old one. We hide it in our bedroom closet. Problem solved.
      A husband who knows

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    2. So true in my experiendcde as well. But she used a cane in those circumstances and I kept my fact well-buried in a pillow.

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    3. The scene is often like this:
      I am acting impatient with one of the kids, one of my main faults.
      Mistress-wife to the kids: "Your father and I are going to have a quick talk. We'll be right back. Keep doing your homework."
      In the bedroom: "Was that any way to treat our son because he doesn't understand a math problem?"
      "No, Mistress."
      "Get your switch."
      "Yes, Mistress."
      (It's always MY switch.) I hand it to her.
      "Pants down and grab ankles."
      "Yes, Mistress."
      I do so. She swings as hard and fast as she can, up and down my bottom and upper thighs. She does not count but it could be anywhere between 20 and 100, depending on her mood and the nature of my transgression. I can grunt softly but make no other sound. It stings like the devil but I stay in position and quiet.
      Afterwards she always says:
      "Stand up and face me."
      Yes, Mistress."
      "What do you have to say for yourself?"
      "I apologize for my behavior, Mistress. I will do better."
      "And?"
      "Thank you for correcting me, Mistress."
      "You're welcome. Now put your switch away and get back out there and be the husband and father we both know you can be."
      "Yes, Mistress."
      Those lines after the switching are almost always the same, regardless of the transgression. Lesson definitely learned. Total time expired: two minutes.

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    4. I forgot to add that in the above instance I also would apologize to my son.
      A husband who knows

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  17. Dan,
    Here is a possible topic: Stages of undress.
    What is the DD wife's favorite stage of undress for her man? Who removes the clothing? How quickly does clothing go back on after punishment?
    Would the husband prefer a different stage of undress? If so, why?
    How does the husband feel while getting undressed for punishment? How does the wife feel watching him? Or does she send him to a different room to "prepare himself"?
    How does the stage of undress enhance punishment? Is it an important part of the ritual for you and your partner?
    Is there a time when you deviated from your typical stage of undress for punishment? What happened and why?
    Frank and Elizabeth

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    1. Frank says that the most exciting sentence in the English language is "pull down your pants and bend over my knee."
      Elizabeth

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  18. For us, I don't think it was the empty nest transition as much as my wife retiring, which happened about the same time. Before retirement, she managed a group of about 30 people. When she got home, she didn't really want to be in charge. I had been reading about FLR for awhile and it appealed to me. However, I felt it was important to be the man she needed at that time, so I didn't push it. A couple months after retirement, she commented that she sort of missed being in charge. That started the conversation that led us to our current arrangement.

    When we were both employed, we tried to split housework 50-50, but in reality she ended up doing more than half. Right after her retirement, she took on most of the housework. Once we agreed to FLR, the percentage gradually started shifting. I now do the majority of the cleaning, laundry, and yardwork even though I still need to put in 40 hours at the office. The most surprising thing is that I am happy about that. She does the cooking because she enjoys that.

    At first, she thought the idea of spanking me was silly. We never spanked our children. Now, she says that she wished she had that tool available at her office. She says it is simpler than all of the performance enhancement programs they used in her company.

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