Saturday, August 4, 2018

Club Meeting #261 - You Have to Want It


“Commitment is a word invented in our abstract modernity to signify the absence of any real motives in the soul for moral dedication.” – Allan Bloom

Hi all.  Welcome back to the Disciplinary Couples Club.  Our weekly gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, Domestic Discipline or Wife Led relationships.
Sorry for the late posting.  I had a short Saturday diversion that turned into a very long one. Earlier this year, I had many months of working weekends.  It's nice, though a little disconcerting, to go into a Saturday without a bunch of work left over from the week.  The late posting may become the new norm, by the way.  Sometimes these posts take longer than you'd think, and I sometimes watch the better part of my morning slip away.  Yet, almost no one posts on Saturday anyway.  So, I may start pushing the posting into the afternoon or evening. We'll play it by ear.

Last week, we talked a little bit about how to judge effectiveness.  That led, perhaps inevitably, into a discussion about the extent to which changed behavior is only part of what we mean by "effective."  As I said in reply to ZM, when we first started DD and for several years thereafter, I didn't really appreciate the "communicative" aspect of DD. Oh, I got that it took great communication to make it work, but it took me a while to really get that the spanking itself is a form of both communicating about a problem and of addressing it. By that standard, it is WAY more effective than the communication we see in many vanilla marriages.  How many marriages fail because they simply drift into both silence and inaction?  One party, or both, may be very unhappy and regularly annoyed, but after a while it just becomes easier to stay silent. So, they do, and from there it's all downhill.  I recently read a book that described the results of such passivity: "Every single voluntarily unprocessed and uncomprehended and ignored reason for marital failure will compound and conspire. . . . All she—he—they—or we—must do to ensure such an outcome is nothing: don’t notice, don’t react, don’t attend, don’t discuss, don’t consider, don’t work for peace, don’t take responsibility. Don’t confront the chaos and turn it into order—just wait for the chaos to rise up and engulf you instead." Disciplinary Wives who are on their game do notice, do react, do attend, do discuss and, most importantly, they make HIM take responsibility.  Even if his behavior remains less than perfect, DD ensures the channels of communication remain open, at least from her to him. 

In discussing effectiveness, both ZM and Helen brought up the subject of motivation and commitment.  Not hers -- his.  As ZM put it: "Just looking at outcome isn't necessarily the answer. While ideally discipline would result in immediate and permanent change, some habits, attitudes, or behaviors are very entrenched and may take a significant amount of time to change, and that is of course assuming that the person even truly wants to change."  Similarly, Helen observed: "As others have mentioned, another crucial factor is that the husband has to want to change the behavior. He can want to because it is good for him (like losing weight), he can want to because it helps him achieve his values (such as stopping swearing), he can want to because it pleases his Disciplinary Wife (such as remembering to take out the garbage). But if he thinks there is nothing wrong with the behavior and he shouldn't be punished for it, then being consistently caught and severely punished is probably not going to be enough to be effective."

That all makes sense.  Regardless of severity or certainty of punishment, we're going to do a better of changing our own behavior if we too want it to change; the fantasy of a dominant wife imposing on us only those rules she personally wants notwithstanding.  In our reality, most of the rules my wife imposes were arrived at more or less jointly.  


But, there definitely are some that she cares about more than I do.  Or, at least, she doesn't balance pros and cons in the same way I do. The best example is probably drinking.  We both generally agree that over-consumption of alcohol has been an ongoing problem for me, and it does definitely cause some issues from time to time.  But, deep down inside, I'm not really ready to give up the benefits it provides with respect to career development and, frankly, I like socializing and talking and alcohol is my set's social lubricant of choice.  As de Sade put it: “Conversation, like certain portions of the anatomy, always runs more smoothly when lubricated.”  So, when push comes to shove, she may command no more than two drinks, but if the guy across the table wants a third, I'm probably going to have a third. 

 On the other hand, we do have success when she addresses things like respect or work habits.  Because, I do want her to feel respected, and her rising feeling of her own power and authority are attractive and motivating to me.  

And, I really do want and need to elevate my game at work giving some of the challenges that are coming up.

 Do these examples resonate with you?  Are there some areas where DD has proven particularly effective because her desire for change is in alignment with your own?  Are there others where DD has not been effective, in whole or in part because the change she is trying to bring about is something that you are, deep down inside, just not motivated to do or, worse yet, downright resistant to changing? In those circumstances, has she found ways to motivate you to change anyway?

Have a great week. 

51 comments:

  1. Dan, A great post. Using you words, these examples do resonate with me and our relationship. I must start by echoing you opening remark. You have to want it. I wanted this relationship. I wanted a list of offenses. I wanted to submit to being spanked to improve my behavior. AND the relationship has worked. Now, onto the examples. Your mentioned drinking. That is on our list of spankable offenses. I admit, she has given me a long leash and I have abused the privilege. Do I want her to make me toe the line....Yes and no. Like you, I will take that extra beer or two and am glad I do not get spanked. However, one of these times, she will enforce this rule and deliver a very harsh punishment spanking. I want this too, otherwise I would not have agreed to include it in our list of offenses. Swearing, on the other hand is an offense she has spanked for.... hard and often. As Helen points out, I want this too as it has helped me overcome a problem in my behavioral pattern. Spankings for swearing have been effective and she has even complimented me on my reduction in swearing. However, when I occasionally silp up, a spanking is still on hand. I want this as I realize she is correct and has improved my behavior in many ways. On a side note, the three photos or very good and fit our relationship to a tee.

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    1. That is the conundrum, isn't it? There are behaviors we want to do and keep doing, but that doesn't really mean we don't want her to take us to task for them. I see it as part of my desire for boundaries -- it doesn't mean that many things are completely off limits, but if I do something to excess in a way that becomes hurtful to me or others . . .

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  2. Also in our marriage I am subject to the domestic disciplines of my wife. I love her, adore her and respect her. I can not imagine a better wife, because I require due to my submissiveness a strict leadership!
    I'm in charge of all the chores, even if my wife helps me sometimes. Aleerdings, she pays strict attention to the fact that I perform this promptly imposed duties to me promptly and properly. Unfortunately, I am not always the most industrious, sometimes forget such task as the garbage bring out. Sometimes she lets me go through it and just tells me to catch up immediately. But if I let something else come to my debts, usually the wooden spoon or the cane comes into action!
    When she spanks me, I cry hard, and that's why I'm also punished and treated like a little boy! Of course I can drink accordingly only in exceptional cases and with their consent alcohol. When she caught me with a bottle of beer, it had very painful consequences for me.
    Unfortunately, I have to admit that I usually have to be spanked several times a week.
    If you want to know more about our marriage, google below
    strictpunishedhubby!

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  3. Happy Sunday Everyone, I agree with everyone above, as we have similar rules on drinking, and completing chores (although I'm pretty good with the that one).

    It's not doing what I'm told where I don't agree with her that result in the hardest spankings. Eating vegetables is one I don't agree with, and little theories that I have that she doesn't agree with are another example. I believe if I have a cut and my dog licks the cut, it heals faster. I have proven this many times in the past, but she found an article on a guy that got a serious infection from dog saliva, and it mentioned it was second recorded case. As we all know there are many places to get a serious infection in today world. I didn't want to read the article, but a severe spanking changed my mind, but probably will not change my behavior.

    John

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    1. My wife has some of that some tendency -- reading about some strange thing that went wrong to someone somewhere, then insisting we guard against that one-off "danger."

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  4. This is Helen's Andy. She asked me to respond since this post seems to be directed directly at disciplined husbands. In our long disciplinary wife relationship, we have had a number of conflicts about whether an issue was under her Authority or mine. As some of you may recall, my areas of responsibility are provider, protector and spiritual leader. Sometimes protector overlaps with her Authority as the manager of the household. I'll give just one example, but there are others. We had a pretty serious conflict about cleaning supplies, which she was keeping under the sink. As our daughter became a toddler, I said that we needed to install child locks. Helen does not like child locks. I found several different kinds, thinking that it would just be a matter of her choosing which one. But she rejected all of them. My response was to say that then the cleaning supplies needed to be moved to a location where they were not within reach. She said she wanted to keep them under the sink. I was a little frustrated that we weren't coming to any consensus, and said so. She said the cleaning supplies are obviously part of the household and thus under her Authority. And she then took me to task with her hair brush. I did not think that this was correct or fair, because to me it was an issue of protecting family members. But I submitted to the spanking, because I have always promised that I would not fight against her Authority. After the spanking, I wrote her a long letter explaining my position. I knew she had read the letter, but she took a long time to respond, and the tensions were quite high in our home. She eventually agreed that I had a point about my role as protector, although she did think that I had overstepped my bounds and stepped on her toes as far as her household Authority. We compromised and moved the cleaning supplies to another place in the kitchen that was less accessible to our toddler. This is one example, but there are others. Many years later, she told me that she appreciated that I had taken the spanking and not resisted her Authority. She said that if I had resisted that would have caused a lot of dissension in our marriage and might have even ended the disciplinary wife relationship. I told her that I love her and respect her Authority and I will never resist punishment from her, even when I disagree with it.

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    1. Hi Andy. FYI, given the readership and the blog's focus, I often phrase a topic as if it is directed to disciplined husbands, but the wives should always feel free to just flip it around and answer from the other perspective.

      I think you played that situation much as I would have -- taking the spanking in order not to undermine her authority, while making it clear that the substance of her decision was simply wrong. I admit I do find that aspect of DD frustrating -- appointing one spouse the HoH and putting them at the top of the chain of command doesn't mean they suddenly gain wisdom. In your case, either locking up cleaning fluids or putting them out of reach was obviously and self-evidently the right thing to do. So much so that I'm really curious as to why she balked at doing so.

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    2. Dan
      Never ask why, first step to gaining wisdom. The answer because u gave her that power

      peter- Anna's peter

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    3. The way Andy tells it, I sound pretty ridiculous, don't I? But of course he left out some parts of it. First, our daughter had just turned one and wasn't even walking so there was no urgency to either move the cleaning fluids or install child locks. Second, I was a stay-at-home mom and she was never out of my sight. The way Andy presented the issue, it seemed as if I wasn't adequately supervising our daughter, and that really irritated me.

      Also, in those days he was a little more macho than he is now and had way less hairbrush training, and his attitude about the whole thing was not as a Catholic servant-leader. He is much better at that now.

      But his point was a good one, both about the cleaning fluids and about his role as protector. I think I was a lot more defensive then than I am now.

      I agree that being in a position of authority doesn't necessarily give us wives wisdom. We do have a responsibility to listen to our husbands before we just make unilateral decisions. And we usually do listen! Wives tend to be much better at listening than husbands. Husbands listen best when their noses are in the carpet and their bottoms are in the air and the hairbrush is in vigorous action!

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    4. Thanks, Helen. The observation that he was once more macho and you were once more defensive and how that led to "issues" that would not occur the same way today certainly rings some bells for me.

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    5. Helen, the last statement in your post is quite memorable. May I have your permission to use it on warranted occasions? Husbands listen best when their noses are in the carpet and their bottoms are in the air and the hairbrush is in vigorous action. Just priceless!!!

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    6. Of course! And I hope she takes it to heart!

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    7. Hi Peter. If that's the first step toward wisdom, I probably am condemned to remain a dunce!

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    8. This is one of those situations that clearly prove how different we all are. If this situation had happened to me it never would have ended the same way. The only way I would have accepted a punishment for such a suggestion would have been if I delivered it in a nasty tone punctuated with disparaging accusations. If not, then no way.

      And if for some reason I felt bullied or pressured into accepting one anyway, my resentment afterwards would have left me ice cold and silent for days or longer.

      For me trusting that Rosa is 'right' is key to my submission, but I also know that as a human being she isn't always right. And if she is clearly wrong on something, I am not going to submit.

      In my past relationship I gave in way more than I ever should have......and it got me nowhere. Now I am older and wiser.....and a lot more protective of myself. Submissive partners should realize that power imbalances can be fun, sexy, and even practical......but they are also dangerous.

      I also have to be the voice of dissent in Helen's cute but incorrect generalization about which gender listens better and the conditions under which men are able to listen effectively. It's an appealing remark from a DD perspective perhaps, but utterly untrue. Also, even within DD there are way more M/f DD relationships than F/m ones, and I'm sure if polled the dominant male HOHs would say the same about their wives. If I am wrong about something, under our DD arrangement I am more than willing to suffer the consequences, but no one should try to convince me of my guilt via hairbrush.

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    9. I used you line, Helen and found myself on the business end of the hair brush in no time. I have you to thank for that spanking.... thank you!!!

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    10. Always nice to help a naughty boy get his due!

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  5. Our way of doing things in our marriage if there isn't alignment is similar to that discussed by Andy. This is all based on communication.

    Ideally, husband and wife would always be communicating properly to the extent that when a spanking comes, there is no surprise involved. If the wife is regularly spanking the husband for things where he had no previous knowledge that they were upsetting and/or angering her, then the communication is breaking down.

    However, if my wife spanks me for something where I didn't previously know it was upsetting her, I would normally just take the spanking and discuss it later for a couple of reasons: -
    1) It may be a pyrrhic victory if I argue with her and win the argument, i.e. I might have proven my point, but I might do irrevocable damage to the spanking side of the relationship if she feels I am making it difficult by arguing with her
    2) Putting aside questions of authority, another reason for having spanking as part of our marriage is that arguments come to a quick end to arguments and bad feelings, so if I do get out of the spanking, the bad feelings will tend to linger
    3) Spanking is a way I emphasise my role as protector, i.e. I take short-term pain to create long-term harmony and in doing so I display through my actions that I am willing to endure pain, injury and death for her and therefore love her sacrifically

    Therefore, I will take the spanking at the time and discuss it with her significantly later, i.e. not so soon after the spanking that I look like I am sore at her for spanking me at all, but not so close to another spanking that I look like I'm trying to avoid the consequences of having upset her.

    When we calmly discuss the issue later on, if we reach agreement on the issue, great. If we don't, then obviously I have to make a decision about how much I want to keep upsetting her and how often I want a sore backside, i.e. if it is really that important.

    Helen, I liked what you said in your profile almost a month ago about how after the first spanking, you had explosive sex and he was man again. That is definitely the way to do things, as it draws a line under the issue at the end of the spanking and it doesn't leave the husband humiliated (which will also be a pyrrhic victory).

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  6. I love your point three, especially "I am willing to endure pain, injury and death for her and therefore love her sacrificially." So well said!

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  7. This morning my wife approached me while she was getting dressed and I was riding the exercycle. She "just happened" to be hooking her bra in the front and she gave me a great shot of her beautiful breasts.

    I said, "are you trying to give me a hard-on while I ride the bike?"

    She said "no, I am here for $10."

    I looked quizzical. She said "I have asked you several times to not put the emptybcan of dog food in the recycling because it smells so bad, and you keep doing it anyway. So now let's see how many times I have to fine you before you get the message."

    By the end of her scolding, I was hard as a rock. I said, "flashing me and then fining me is a perfect use of the carrot and the stick." She grinned at me and said in a mock southern accent, "why, whatever do you mean?" Then she sashayed away!

    After I took my shower rock hard and got dressed and as I was leaving for work, I brought her the $10. I said something I have read that others say: "thank you for making me a better husband and father."

    She said "you're welcome" and then held up the two $5 bills and said with a grin, "And thank you!"

    Do I agree that I should be fined for putting an empty can in the recycling? No, I don't. But I realize that is not the point. It is important to HER, and by fining me, she is making it important to me. And as a good husband, I should care what is important to her.

    In addition, the whole thing was erotic as heck. I'm hard just writing about it. I had an incredible urge to beg to thank her with my tongue, but I know she would have told me she was already dressed and to go to work. Hopefully tonight!

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    1. Hi Anton. Sounds like things are coming along nicely!

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  8. Thanks, Dan. I still wish she would spank me. The other day she said, "Maybe I do need a whip." I almost creamed my jeans. But I said nothing because I don't want to seem pushy about corporal punishment. And I am really happy with the control she has taken. We are arguing much less!

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    1. Since she does seem to be making a lot of progress, and especially given that comment, it sounds like you are doing the right thing in not pushing it and letting things take their own course for a while.

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    2. I just ordered her a keychain tassel that can hang on a purse (or wherever). Has many black strands but only 8 inches long. I'm going to tell her it's the whip she asked for. With a laugh, of course. See how she reacts. Maybe she'll smack me with it. Could be the beginning!

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  9. We both were skeptical whether discipline would really effect change, or would it just be a more intense form of BDSM play. We started with two simple rules that guaranteed I would be spanked frequently: I would be punished for spilling food on my shirt and I would be punished for eating before she starts unless she gives me explicit permission.

    It took over a year for her to consistently enforce the rules. During that time she became a better spanker. After about two years (this past spring) of consistent enforcement, we individually observed something surprising:

    She went to visit family across the country. While out to dinner, one of her family members ate before she began. She reported that she felt a twinge that her relative was misbehaving. That's when she realized how much she has internalized her role.

    I noticed that I have only spilled food on my shirt once in six months. I always wait to eat until after she starts. The confirmation that this lifestyle works is that I no longer consciously try. I am fully conditioned to not spill and to wait until she eats first.

    This may not seem like a big deal, but it is for us. These "little" rules and the consistent, painful enforcement of them (she is a *very* good spanker now) have changed me permanently.

    We didn't expect this. It proves that our disciplinary lifestyle is effective. It isn't BDSM. Now, Mrs. Lion is thinking about the next step in training me.

    Dan, I had a lot of doubt that I could truly change just because I had to follow an arbitrary rule "or else". But I not only can change. I have.

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    1. Hi CL. It doesn't surprise me. We don't have any rules that I can think of that involve something that has the possibility of happening daily (like spilling food on your shirt), but in areas that involve something where there is no positive trade-off for me and is more of an "arbitrary" rule or chore, we definitely make progress. The best example is one I have mentioned before; cleaning our rice cooker. I would sometimes forget due to sheer lack of attention. Now, any time we have a meal with rice, I am pretty damn focused on that rice cooker as I do my after-dinner cleaning.

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  10. Can anybody here recommend Femdom blogs that have the following characteristics:
    1) are by (intelligent) WOMEN
    2) are NOT about visuals and preferably NOT about fantasy but about REAL LIFE FEMALE DOMINATION
    3) are NOT commercial (not pro-dommes)
    4) preferably POST OFTEN
    ???

    I recommend Femdom101 although unfortunately it's very bad on number 4, but great on 1,2 and 3.

    Thank you in advance!

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    1. Gigi,

      I'll get punished if my wife ever reads this, because I'm not supposed to be surfing, but one of the very best Femdom blogs--meets ALL four of your characteristics--is www.DominaJen.com

      Yes, it is a blog even though it is its own dot com. Very intelligent and very real--she owns two subs--and no pictures and no pay and posts often! Beware that it is wide-ranging Femdom and way beyond Disciplinary Wives and Domestic Discipline. Into some pretty crazy stuff.

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    2. I've read that one too and agree it is pretty entertaining.

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  11. I don't have much to offer on the specifics of this week's topic, but in general it sort of had me musing over why things don't always progress and i kept going back to this week's title thinking, "yeah, that's true.......and the fact is I don't always want it."

    I think that there's a risk-to-reward ratio even for Tops. And if a relationship is complicated, DD may solve some problems but accentuate others. And if a person is aware that sometimes being insistent brings the rewards of achieving a behavioral goal, it can also throw the entire harmony of the relationship into disarray and depression, knowing when to stand one's ground and when not to, and evaluating how important changing a particular behavior is can cause the top to err on the side of caution. and once that happens it becomes harder to be insistent the next time.

    Life is full of unexpected stresses and people (especially me) are complicated and difficult. As a result it's a wonder DD works as much as it does even if it's not totally effective all of the time.

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    1. Good point -- life is complicated, people are complicated, and ultimately change is hard.

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  12. Yesterday I got a new punishment: weeding!

    I was supposed to take a package with me yesterday morning and get it in the UPS box. It's something of my sister's, who recently visited, that needs to be returned. The deadline to return it was yesterday. I forgot the package in the morning but thought no problem since I come home for lunch and it didn't have to be in the UPS box until 8 p.m.

    But during the morning my wife texted me the following: "Since you wanna be cute and forgot your sister's package that I told you about taking today at least twice--congratulations! You just bought yourself 20 minutes of weed pulling on the side of the house by the new gate today!"

    Do I agree with this punishment? NO. I still got the package in the UPS box to be returned on time. Do I love that she is stepping up her role as a Disciplinary Wife and punishing me? YES. Does that trump my disagreement with the punishment? YES. Did her text give me a hard-on? YES. Did I do the weeding without resentment? YES. Am I keeping that text forever? YES. Is our new Disciplinary Wife relationship working? YES YES YES!

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    1. You should also visit Tomy's blog. His latest post is about writing lines as a punishment. As I told him, I am more convinced all the time that non-spanking punishments are at least as effective as spankings, if not more so, if the goal really is behavior change.

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  13. It is easiest when we agree about rules and boundaries, and where they benefit both of us, which has been pretty much the case so far.

    Our most effective discipline has been the work check-ins which we started in early spring. I was stuck and not making any forward progress on a new product I am developing and the lack of progress made me feel hopeless, resulting in me being even more stuck. I asked her to help me get things moving, and she began daily reporting and weekly check-ins. Things quickly accelerated from a virtual standstill and my productivity (and mood) rose steadily. Everything stalled again in May when my kids came home for the summer. Though I love having them here, it did mean the loss of the space I was using as an office, a lot more interruptions, and the loss of opportunity to have the check-ins. When the check-ins stopped, everything started to degrade quickly, since we hadn't yet reached the point where the cycle would be self-reinforcing and success would encourage further success.

    Even though so far I have always agreed with her about the reasons for punishment sometimes I can't see myself clearly. A perfect example of this is attitude. Having a bad attitude is never helpful, and in fact is always detrimental to myself and everyone around me. However, the worse my attitude becomes, the less likely that I am to recognize it. If she sees that I have a bad attitude and decides to change it, then almost certainly I will disagree, at least in the beginning. As she relentlessly applies the chosen implement to my backside, somehow that helps me to see myself more clearly. Once she has gotten me to recognize the bad attitude, she is halfway there, and she can (and should) just continue until there is not the least little bit of attitude remaining. Long, drawn-out punishments interspersed with loads of humiliation are just the cure for a bad attitude.

    While everything is more simple as long as we agree about everything, DD gets much more real when we are not in full agreement. As we do DD longer I am sure we will encounter some areas where I simply don't agree, either in principle (probably very rarely) or more likely in exactly where a boundary should be.

    DD is not just be about me and for my benefit, but also for her and for her benefit. The passive benefits of DD to her are many, including: better communication between us, more closeness and intimacy between us, less disagreement and arguments, more business success (and consequently financial security), less accumulated resentment, feelings of closure, etc. However, since I have given her this authority, she can and should use it even if I don't necessarily agree. At her sole discretion, she can dictate and enforce rules that make her happy or for her sole benefit, whether it be me taking out the garbage, washing my hands, or whatever. I don't have to agree, I just have to do it. Note the “at her sole discretion...” It is very important the she use discretion and not go overboard. She wouldn't want to cause resentment, and she knows that I simply can't tolerate arbitrary rules, regardless of who makes them. But she can decide something and fully expect and enforce my compliance.

    In the end, I do think that “you have to want it” to affect real change. I change because I love myself, I love my wife, I love those around me, and I want the best for all of us! The threat of punishment, regardless of severity or certainty, does not in and of itself guarantee change. However, even in cases where we don't necessarily fully agree on rules or boundaries, like speeding for me or work-enhancing social drinking with Dan, the threat of punishment does help to at least keep things somewhat in control. Also, it is entirely possible that over time the extremely effective “communication” inherent in DD (which is worlds better than nagging, silence, or passive aggressiveness) may help us to better see and appreciate other perspectives and may ultimately cause us to want to change.

    -ZM

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    1. ZM, this reflects my own thinking almost exactly, though I also understand KD's point of view. It illustrates that context is everything. Power imbalances can, indeed, be dangerous. Particularly if one or both partners are dysfunctional or there is (for good reasons) a low level of trust. For that reason, I cannot imagine entering into one of these relationships in less than stable relationship or in one that has not been ongoing for a while. In particular, the party who has been placed at the top of the chain-of-command needs to be mentally and emotionally stable and has to recognize the responsibility that comes along with having power over someone. I don't try to manage by wife's exercise of her authority, because in the end she is a trustworthy person.

      The level of deference that may be appropriate also may depend on the level of natural dominance. Many of the Disciplinary Wives are asked to take on that role, and it isn't entirely natural to them. They have doubts and insecurities, like all normal human beings. When dealing with a partner for whom leadership is a work in progress, I am OK erring on the side of submitting to a punishment even if I don't fully agree with it, because I don't want to undermine her confidence. Somewhat paradoxically, if the HoH was a naturally dominant and controlling personality, I would be more like to push back if I thought that person was abusing their power or making bad decisions.

      Finally, as I pointed out to KD in a side conversation, for every one time I might be subjected to a less than fully earned punishment, I probably escaped 10 others that were more than fully deserving of a good butt blistering. I am quite confident that in the scheme of things, I am way ahead!

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    2. I certainly agree that there has to be a lot of trust in any relationship where one partner is inflicting pain on the other. I have an incredible responsibility to not abuse my authority, and I take that very seriously.

      My question for you, Dan, (and others): When you escape 10 butt blisterings that were "fully deserved," do you feel any responsibility to either improve your behavior on your own or confess your transgression to your disciplinarian? Or are you happy to have "gotten away with it"?

      My mother, who was a rather strict disciplinarian, used to punish for "lies of omission as well as lies of commission." In other words, withholding from her that we had misbehaved. And I believe my brothers would say that they got it worse when they withheld information that they knew should be confessed.

      My husband frequently comes to me and confesses. I love him for it. I still spank him, and he expects me too. But those sessions are maybe the most intimate of all because he has shown how much he trusts me. Lovemaking always follows.

      And he says that he feels good to absolve his guilt by confession. Of course we are Catholics so confession is a big deal to us!

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    3. Helen, I feel the Catholic guilt and will sometimes confess, but a lot of time I'm just the naughty boy who is glad he got away with one or ten. If it is serious infraction the guilt is worst than the punishment, so I would rather get it over with once, rather than die a thousand mental deaths.

      John

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    4. I don't think the options you list are entirely mutually exclusive. I wlaways feel a responsibility to try to improve my behavior on my own. Indeed, one of the ironies of DD is that while the fantasy is often of a naturally dominant wife imposing it on an unwilling husband, the reality is usually a man asking for it out of a desire to improve his performance. The irony is that it is probably the men who are the harshest judges of themselves and who hold themselves to the highest standards who are most likely to request DD in order to get over the hurdles in those areas in which they have not been able to meet their own standards or achieve what they want. Second, we have implemented self-reporting rituals and systems, most of which I've initiated. As they say, however, you can lead a horse to water . . . Third, as I and others here have noted, yes, I am often happy to have gotten away with it (this happened just last night, in fact) at that moment, and also disappointed to have gotten away with it in bigger picture terms. It's kind of like cheating on my diet. At the moment I am having that brownie, I enjoy the taste of the sugar and cocoa and the smell and the texture. When I get on the scale two days later and have gained a pound or two, I'm not all that happy with my choices.

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    5. I always thank Andy when he self-reports. I thank him verbally, and I thank him sexually. And the trust and intimacy is off the charts.

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    6. I appreciate Helen's admission that as the one in charge, she has "an incredible responsibility not to abuse (her) authority". Very true. But here's the sticky wicket....a: if it is solely up to the Top to self-monitor, and b: the sub is to submit to punishments even when they don't agree, what happens when the Top DOESN'T self-monitor and let's their power go to their head? How does the sub know? If something seems 'off' they could refuse a punishment....but they 'can't' or 'shouldn't' according to a general thought stated by several here. So how far down the rabbit hole does he descend before pulling out?

      I had a horrible experience in my prior relationship that I enabled by acquiescing at times I should have stood my ground. I deferred and deferred and deferred....until there wasn't much left of "me". (What a good sub, right?) Bullshit! It's dangerous. Sure this stuff feeds fantasy and is great when it is working, but there are real dangers when you totally trust another person with total control of anything....from your spouse, to your accountant! LOL

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    7. Hi KD. I don't disagree with anything you said. I just don't see it as binary. I definitely don't think these power sharing relationships are without risk, particularly if the "Top" isn't a well balanced and well meaning person. And, no one has an obligation to submit to such a person. Though, the scenario you depict begs the question not just of why be in a DD relationship with such a person but why be in a relationship with such a person at all.

      The bottomline for me is these relationships, like any other, require common sense. If a Top makes a mistake now and then or there is a disagreement about whether discipline was earned, that is probably to be expected every once in a while. Each "bottom" has to figure out whether to submit in those circumstances, recognizing that (a) the top may be wrong, but it's also possible the bottom is the party in the wrong and just doesn't have that perspective in the moment; and (b) refusing to submit may undermine her confidence and the relationship as a whole. So, while the top has a responsibility to think hard about when and when not to discipline, the same applies to the "bottom" regarding whether to refuse to comply.

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    8. Well put, KD. I have seen this kind of spousal abuse paraded around in blogs as amusing. It is not! And abuse is not always limited to tops; it can occur from the bottom as well. No marital arrangement is going to be without occasional instances of abuse. But many types of marital arrangements, when under-girded by love and respect, have well-served the needs of both partners, including those which include spankings. I am in such an arrangement. Many of us are.
      Doug

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  14. Haven't contributed for months , although I periodically check into the site as I believe it is helpful to the many participants, all with different needs. What caught my attention, and urge to again participate, were the contributions of "Helen". She has the understanding and skill of communicating to create her own blog urging wives to use the paddle or strap on a husband that needs it for his own good and the good of the marriage. I hope she starts her own blog. I am not in a FLR. I am the leader and protector of the family and my wife wants it that way and I as well. But, once retired, and living with my wife 24/7, many of my behaviors, habits, attitude, selfishness, et. al. needed correction or would ruin a long term marriage. I realized I needed boundaries and behavioral control and most importantly the desire to correct and improve in all areas. Studying the internet I found the Spencer Spanking Plan , DWC, and other sites that used serious and painful spankings of husbands by their wives to help husbands overcome these disruptor behaviors. Unlike my wife, who had good social skills, is tactful with good behavioral control, my actions to the contrary wERE both upsetting and resulting in my wife's pent up anger with me. , also obvious to me. (TO BE CONTINUED)



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    1. Thank you for the compliments! I am considering my own blog that would be specifically for couples who use DD but where the spanking spouse is NOT totally in charge (either for religious reasons like us or for other reasons).

      It is good to hear from another husband who is the leader of his family but still gets spanked by his wife. This is the dynamic I am most interested in. Any name suggestions? I am thinking "Spanking My Leader."

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    2. Hi Helen, I and my wife are the sort of couple you area referring to. I'm definitely happy to discuss this further if you want, as we believe it is a great way of doing things. I don't awfully mind discussing this here, though it might be good offline, so as to avoid generating too many automated notifications (assuming that happens).

      I haven't got many ideas for titles. The only one that springs to mind is "Spanking the HOH".

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    3. We avoid the term HoH because while Andy is the leader of the family (provider, protector, spiritual leader), I am in charge of managing the household (which covers most everything else). So in one sense I am the head of the household, and in another sense he is. Thus HoH is confusing in our situation.

      Dan is a great moderator and we don't get automated notifications. You can reach me at helenspanksandy at g.

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    4. As in GMail?

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    5. Hi Helen
      Hope you do start a blog. I think you would be an important voice especially to couples still in the earlier stages of a DD relationship - as well as women looking for new strategies to actually change male behavior. A name that might work: Bringing about behavioral change in husbands through loving OTK ( since most of your punishments seem to be traditional over the knee). It a little long but good luck with the blog if you go there.
      Alan

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    6. Sent you an e-mail earlier this evening Helen.

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  15. For some reason I never was able to continue my post. Bottom line, I've been spanked by my wife often enough and plenty hard enough to become a pretty darn good husband. I still lead and protect the family, but I wanted my wife to have the power to control my behavior, health habits and safety. Helen's points would be good ones for most of us married guys. First, husbands should want to improve themselves and their marriages. If the husband violates behavioral rules he has promised not to, if his wife loves him, she will spank him hard enough he will learn from that experience that repeating that bad behavior is just not worth it. Third, the husband should accept his discipline/punishment without resistance when his wife decides to spank him and take it like a man until it is over. Fourth, when it is over the husband should thank his wife for having given him that spanking and , in turn, she should forgive him, and life goes back to normal. I've lived this life, and my wife and I have just completed 60 years of a wonderful marriage, and the best came after I was smart enough to ask her to use the paddle for my improvement as a husband and her being smart enough to do exactly that. "Helen" help other young wives understand the benefits you have in your own marriage.

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