"Know what? Bitches get stuff done. -- Tina Fey"
Hi all. Welcome back to the Forum. Our interactive gathering of men and women who are participating or interested in being in a Domestic Discipline or Female Led Relationship.
I hope you all had a great week. By the end of mine, I was reminded tha periods of frenetic activity are almost always, for me at least, followed by days of abject laziness, sometimes capped by royally blowing off steam. I experienced bits of all those this week after coming down off of a major work project that had been truly all-consuming for the better part of a month. As most of those projects go in my world, there is a definite end-point. So, you go from running at a balls-out pace to a dead stop. I find that it is the period right after that "dead stop" in which I tend to get in trouble. When I have 50 things on my to-do list, I get them all done. When it's back down to five things, I accomplish precisely none of them. I also have a tendency to look at the clock around 4:00 pm and say, "Well, since I don't have much going on anyway, let's rally the troops and get happy hour going early." And one happy hour cocktail soon become four. Which is all my way of saying that I probably have a good, long punishment spanking coming this weekend, and I probably richly deserve it.
Before getting to this week's topic, a note on -- "bitchiness." I had another of those experiences last week that verified for me just how insidious this view among women is that if they take control they will be perceived as bitches, which may or may not be true, but what is true is how much they care! Over the course of this work project, I watched one of our younger female team members do something that represented playing way, way above her level. Just stunningly impressive from someone who was supposed to be too junior to pull something like that off. When things wrapped up, we had a team "bonding" event that became the usual booze fest. During the course of said festivities, she asked me for pointers on how to get even better. I told her that she had exhibited technical skills way above what anyone thought she should have at this stage, so now she just needed to work on developing a level of confidence that matches the ability. She then asked what I freaking knew she was going to ask: "But, how do I do that without sounding bitchy?" I then gave her a five minute lecture on how that concern about being perceived as bitchy was likely going to be the #1 thing getting in the way of becoming all she could otherwise be, and that regardless of the price paid for being perceived as bitchy, it will not be nearly as high as the price paid for self-censoring and not living up to her full potential all because of some faux egalitarianism or hesitancy to offend. It is just so frustrating seeing young women with so much potential dumb themselves down purely because of someone else's perception or, more accurately, the mere possibility of such a perception. And, if people see a strong woman as a bitch . . . so what?? When I tell a male subordinate that he screwed up, do you think he doesn't leave the office muttering to himself, "Asshole." It's the same thing, but for some reason women just care about it way more. Like I said, insidious.
I also had a pleasant surprise this week. During this lull in the work activity, I caught up on some reading, including a book entitled "The Good Wife's Guide to Taking Charge: A Female Led Relationship Primer" by Rebecca Lawson (available on Amazon). Unlike a lot of the junk out there that I've read on this topic, this one really focused on the reality of these relationships and implementing them in the real world. I was going through the "Some Resources" section in the back, and this quote brought me up short:
"I also recommend The Disciplined Husbands Forum (disciplinedhubbies.blogspot.
I've always wanted to be a published author myself but have lacked the commitment to make it happen, so I guess I will settle on getting mentioned in an actual book!
So, on to this week's topic. I got a little testy with a commenter last week who started going down the, "If everyone is REALLY doing DD then why the desire to get spanked . . ." thing. I admit, I really just get tired of people questioning other people's sincerity or motivations. Just because you don't "get it" doesn't mean others don't. It probably just means this lifestyle isn't for you and you should move on to another blog that better suits your interests. But, there was a more legitimate point that focusing on the mechanics of the spanking sometimes means we aren't having the bigger "why" discussions. (Of course, I've also noticed I tend to get more comments on the blander, "What's your favorite spanking instrument" kind of topics -- just goes to show you can't please everyone.) So, for this week, I'll throw out one of those more open ended questions: Why domestic discipline or FLR? Why did you want (or agree) to take your relationship in this direction? What need does it fulfill for you, assuming it does? While a lot of FLR stories involve the woman imposing the relationship on the screw-up husband, the dominant reality is the men often do the initiating. So, why do we want it? What gap does it fill for you? And, for the women who did initiate it or went along with a request, does it fulfill your needs too?
Have a great week. If you are new to this Forum, please take a few minutes to go to our Guestbook (tab above) and tell us a little about yourself.
Dan
Hi all. Welcome back to the Forum. Our interactive gathering of men and women who are participating or interested in being in a Domestic Discipline or Female Led Relationship.
I hope you all had a great week. By the end of mine, I was reminded tha periods of frenetic activity are almost always, for me at least, followed by days of abject laziness, sometimes capped by royally blowing off steam. I experienced bits of all those this week after coming down off of a major work project that had been truly all-consuming for the better part of a month. As most of those projects go in my world, there is a definite end-point. So, you go from running at a balls-out pace to a dead stop. I find that it is the period right after that "dead stop" in which I tend to get in trouble. When I have 50 things on my to-do list, I get them all done. When it's back down to five things, I accomplish precisely none of them. I also have a tendency to look at the clock around 4:00 pm and say, "Well, since I don't have much going on anyway, let's rally the troops and get happy hour going early." And one happy hour cocktail soon become four. Which is all my way of saying that I probably have a good, long punishment spanking coming this weekend, and I probably richly deserve it.
Before getting to this week's topic, a note on -- "bitchiness." I had another of those experiences last week that verified for me just how insidious this view among women is that if they take control they will be perceived as bitches, which may or may not be true, but what is true is how much they care! Over the course of this work project, I watched one of our younger female team members do something that represented playing way, way above her level. Just stunningly impressive from someone who was supposed to be too junior to pull something like that off. When things wrapped up, we had a team "bonding" event that became the usual booze fest. During the course of said festivities, she asked me for pointers on how to get even better. I told her that she had exhibited technical skills way above what anyone thought she should have at this stage, so now she just needed to work on developing a level of confidence that matches the ability. She then asked what I freaking knew she was going to ask: "But, how do I do that without sounding bitchy?" I then gave her a five minute lecture on how that concern about being perceived as bitchy was likely going to be the #1 thing getting in the way of becoming all she could otherwise be, and that regardless of the price paid for being perceived as bitchy, it will not be nearly as high as the price paid for self-censoring and not living up to her full potential all because of some faux egalitarianism or hesitancy to offend. It is just so frustrating seeing young women with so much potential dumb themselves down purely because of someone else's perception or, more accurately, the mere possibility of such a perception. And, if people see a strong woman as a bitch . . . so what?? When I tell a male subordinate that he screwed up, do you think he doesn't leave the office muttering to himself, "Asshole." It's the same thing, but for some reason women just care about it way more. Like I said, insidious.
I also had a pleasant surprise this week. During this lull in the work activity, I caught up on some reading, including a book entitled "The Good Wife's Guide to Taking Charge: A Female Led Relationship Primer" by Rebecca Lawson (available on Amazon). Unlike a lot of the junk out there that I've read on this topic, this one really focused on the reality of these relationships and implementing them in the real world. I was going through the "Some Resources" section in the back, and this quote brought me up short:
"I also recommend The Disciplined Husbands Forum (disciplinedhubbies.blogspot.
I've always wanted to be a published author myself but have lacked the commitment to make it happen, so I guess I will settle on getting mentioned in an actual book!
So, on to this week's topic. I got a little testy with a commenter last week who started going down the, "If everyone is REALLY doing DD then why the desire to get spanked . . ." thing. I admit, I really just get tired of people questioning other people's sincerity or motivations. Just because you don't "get it" doesn't mean others don't. It probably just means this lifestyle isn't for you and you should move on to another blog that better suits your interests. But, there was a more legitimate point that focusing on the mechanics of the spanking sometimes means we aren't having the bigger "why" discussions. (Of course, I've also noticed I tend to get more comments on the blander, "What's your favorite spanking instrument" kind of topics -- just goes to show you can't please everyone.) So, for this week, I'll throw out one of those more open ended questions: Why domestic discipline or FLR? Why did you want (or agree) to take your relationship in this direction? What need does it fulfill for you, assuming it does? While a lot of FLR stories involve the woman imposing the relationship on the screw-up husband, the dominant reality is the men often do the initiating. So, why do we want it? What gap does it fill for you? And, for the women who did initiate it or went along with a request, does it fulfill your needs too?
Have a great week. If you are new to this Forum, please take a few minutes to go to our Guestbook (tab above) and tell us a little about yourself.
Dan
Explaining desire is difficult, it's easier just to list aspects of it that attract. The intimacy that comes from being vulnerable and exposed to someone who is both evaluating with a critical eye and accepting is a big part of it. The occasional loss of autonomy and the openness to having one's mood or behavior adjusted as well as catharsis are all parts of this as well. Relationships are rarely completely equal, often one party leads and one follows. Domestic discipline is a dramatic expression of this dynamic. But I think much of the time the short answer is that it's simply a matter of sexual attraction.
ReplyDeleteThe related question that comes up all the time is then how can it be real discipline if it's a sexual kink? Perhaps for some of us the sexual attraction is more towards having a disciplinary relationship with someone who is loving and demanding and dominating and less to the actual physical discipline. And that all said, this is just the speculation of an interested outsider.
Thanks, Cameron. "How can it be real discipline if it it's a sexual kink?" There are two or three possible answers I can think of:
DeleteFirst, who says that for everyone it *is* a sexual kink? It is true that for a pretty substantial majority of commenters, interest in spanking preceded interest in domestic discipline and they are pretty open about having a spanking fetish. But, that is not true for everyone, and some couples go to some lengths (milking for example) to make sure the disciplinary spanking is not at all pleasurable.
Second, something along the lines of what you suggest above: the attraction is toward the disciplinary relationship, being lead, surrendering to someone's authority, etc. It's about wanting to be submissive, wanting to be lead, etc. All that can be an attraction quite independently of the spanking, or the spanking may be more of a means than an end.
Third, and maybe related to the second, for many the attraction to the spanking works only to the extent it is, in fact, "real" discipline. In other words, the attraction is to being held accountable or paying some kind of price or "penance" for the behavior. In those cases, a spanking that was not very unpleasant wouldn't be something they would want. I put myself in this category to a large extent. We don't do erotic spankings, and I have zero interest in them.
Great writing and "answers". To my mind, spanking has some sexual tone to it. It shows vulnerability, connection to childhood?, power, lack of control, sensation, and a host of other dynamics. Whatever consenting partners want to do....
DeleteHi,
ReplyDeleteI've followed you for a while, but have never contributed. I'm fairly new to this chastity and domestic discipline lifestyle. My wife is doing it because I asked it of her, but she is enjoying it and I think may soon want to continue it regardless of what I think. I don't look forward to punishments, but feel they are important for our relationship. My wife is getting stricter and far more merciless when administering them. She is less likely to forgive infractions without punishment. Still, I find I feel much closer to my wife afterwards. They seem to bring us together. It's similar to the chastity cage and her total control of my sexuality and orgasms. She's more comfortable with denying me and demanding service from me. These changes are exciting to me and we are much closer than we were a year ago. Other's may not understand the dynamic, but it is definitely working for us. All the best!
Hi Michael. I'm glad you decided to jump in and contribute. It's great that your wife is enjoying it. I don't pretend to get the chastity thing, but it does seem to work for many couples, and I am a big fan of the motto "whatever works!"
DeleteDan
ReplyDeleteFirst and foremost, am thrilled you mentioned Rebecca Lawson's book "Good
Wifes Guide to Taking Charge...I read it last nite and Peter is reading it as I write this.
It truly puts it all into the right frame and so enjoyed that she takes it out of the BDSM
scene. In these days of political correctness I merely meant for an everyday housewife
and partner just good reading. If there are husbands in your readership that dont know
how to approach the subject I suggest they buy a copy and leave it hanging around.
Anna
PS It was also a thrill to see her recommend this blog of very intelligent folk.
Hi Anna. Hope you and Peter are doing well. Another good one is "The Hesitant Mistress." For people just getting started, it's a very realistic approach. I agree the BDSM-orientatiion of some books scare as many wives away as they encourage. Don't get me wrong -- I don't have a problem with BDSM, and I can see how it might be a natural transition for some FLR couples. I just try to keep the blog oriented more to the DD and FLR end of the spectrum, to some extent specifically because I don't want to scare away newbies.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteLet me begin by saying, that I long ago gave up trying to figure out why I am drawn it. It isnt a secret that before marrying anna and a bit into our marriage I went to a professional who caned, spanked,belted my bottom. It centered me. The down side for me, it had no real meaning. When Anna began discipline it was for reminding me of my failings as a partner, a husband and a father.
ReplyDeleteNow, it is like the rest of life, always in flux and changing. Through the discipline I gained a new respect for a woman that I loved. We are continually working towards a true partnership. We do not ever had sex after
a session for punishment, but often am aroused and comforted in a different way. The one vow we have both made is to be open to our partner. There is such a freedom in knowing I can tell her anything.
Peter
Hi Peter. I can't say I have given up trying to figure out why I am drawn to it, though it probably is more constructive to think about whether/why it serves you than why you want it. I do agree that it has actually helped our communication, though that probably has more to do with the journaling aspect than anything else, though that was imposed as part of the FLR.
DeleteI was drawn to DD to solve a problem, to wit, there were things I was doing in our marriage, that I honestly knew I should not be doing, and were jeopardizing our marriage. So I was looking for an enforcement mechanism that would prevent my behavior and attitude issues from getting out of control. At the same time I did not want to give up being the leader of our family (at the time I had no knowledge of a FLR, but if I had, I would have had no desire or interest in that kind of a relationship). So what to do? I had some behavioral and attitude problems that I knew had to change if I wanted our marriage to survive (and I did love my wife). It became obvious to me that to change I needed some form of discipline when I stepped out of line. Growing up I got spanked when I stepped out of line and I learned to behave to avoid them. If my wife, who was also spanked growing up, would be willing to give me a good old fashioned spanking when I stepped out of line it would balance the power in our marriage and stop the behavioral issues I had that were upsetting her. I thought it would work. That led to a honest discussion with my wife where my faults were identified, I admitted my shortcomings, wanted to correct them and make our marriage work again. I asked if she would be willing to discipline me with a good thrashing if I would be willing to accept and take them from her whenever I committed any of the bad behaviors I acknowledged and we had agreed to. She thought about it and said you really do need discipline, and if you violate any of the behaviors we've agreed must change, there will be no getting out of it, and the spankings will have be harsh or you aren't going to change.(this is just a summary of a very long discussion) I agreed and we have been following that agreement for more than 15 years. Our agreement is in writing, my wife enforces it, I have improved, the violations are now rare, we have a great relationship, but if I do screw up my wife will not hesitate to paddle my ass hard and with vigor. And I want her to and appreciate the fact she is doing it for both of us.
ReplyDeleteFred
Hi Fred. Welcome back. When you took the idea to your wife, had you come up with it totally on your own, or gotten it from something you had read or heard. As I've discussed before, I had never thought about DD or even knew it existed until I saw something about it on the Internet.
DeleteI totally get wanting a DD relationship that is purely about punishments for misbehavior. I have come to want to explore more of an FLR, but it wasn't always like that, and it isn't an easy transition or one I think every DD husband would be into.
These conversations are extremely difficult to have. Embarrassing to admit your short comings. Embarrassing to tell her your proposed solution. And so very worrisome of what her reaction will be.
DeleteIn our FLR my wife says the hardest part is taking the responsibility for the day to day of longer term. What colour to paint the wall. Which car to buy. Ultimately her decisions. My input is sought sometimes listened to sometimes not. She says that kind of stuff is tiring.
DeleteDan
DeleteI find for myself, the more we moved into DD and i began to feel i could trust her with my darker secrets, the more FLR seem to work. But the beauty is each couple can create their
own plan that works for them.
peter
Peter, I agree, this kind of stuff is really where the rubber meets the road where marital communication is concerned. It's a kind of relationship that really can't work without strong and ongoing communication, and the more of that there is, the better it works.
DeleteLike Fred (and others), I never thought of my late or second wife as "bitchy" because they used a firm hand to discipline we - which I know I needed, even though I didn't always acknowledge I did.
ReplyDelete"Bitchiness" is, in any case, a relative concept which is closely related to "frustration" - and neither N. or J. ever experienced it, I think, because each of them had found the way to deal with my (frequent) misbehavior in an expediently firm way...
L.
Good point -- poorly behaved husband tends to = bitchy.
DeleteIt's interesting to read the range of different motivations here from those who were always interested in spanking before they encountered DD, to those who now get turned on by punishment spankings, or who practise both erotic and punishment spanking, and to those who, like me, have no interest in erotic spanking, and only want to use it as a punishment. For myself, my interest in DD is linked to the ides of an FLR with my partner, because I believe that it would be good for our relationship, particularly in the area of conflict resolution. We are in discussion about it at the moment, and may want to decide to try it very soon, and although there is plenty of material to read online on the topic of FLR, there is hardly anything about what the negative effects can be on the relationship. Are we really to believe that this is something that is only ever positive - that nothing ever goes wrong - or is it just that people who have had bad experiences with it don't come to places like this to post their stories?
ReplyDeleteI'm sure there are a whole bunch of couples, probably the majority out there, who would either now want or not need DD. But, as the masthead and my introduction to each weekly topic make clear, this blog is for people who are in DD or FLR relationships or genuinely interested in being in one. I am always fine with couples in DD talking about what hasn't worked for them, needs improvement, etc. I am straightforward in saying, however, that this isn't a general purpose message board for folks who don't like or agree with DD or FLRs to vent their spleen. They are welcome to start their own blogs if that is what they have an anti-DD ax to grind.
DeleteSorry, meant the first sentence to say, "who would either NOT want or need . . ."
DeleteDan,
ReplyDeleteI did do some reading before suggesting my wife discipline me. The first thing I cam across on the internet was the Spencer Spanking Plan. Spanking in that program was a solution to marriage issues. Instead of looking at the Spencer Plan as a two way issue, I looked at it as a one way issue, my wife spanking me.
Fred
Got it. Two way wouldn't work for either of us.
DeleteWell, Bitches do make things get done. In my case, in a not horribly terrible way, it could be worse. Problems this week were 1) generally not getting things done, coming home and drinking beer instead, and 2) She pointing out I apparently had left some pee on the toilet seat (I denied it, but maybe She was right). Anyway, today they resulted in: 1) Doing some laundry and ironing, dressed only in panties...She seemed to find that amusing, and 2) scrubbing the bathroom floor on hands and knees, followed by a strong paddling. I think in the future I'll get things done *first* when I get home, and maybe starting to sit in bathroom all the time, or else being way more attentive. Sam
ReplyDeleteHi Sam. I had a similar experience last week. Funny how the combination of extra chores and a paddling can get you back on track.
Delete