“There are very few honest friends — the demand is not particularly great.” — Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach
Hello all. Welcome back to The Disciplinary Wives Club - Tribute. Our weekly on-line gathering of women and men who are in, or would like to be in, a Domestic Discipline relationship.
I hope you all had a good week. Mine was uneventful on the behavior front, though hectic and a little challenging on the medical front. Covid symptoms continued to plague me. I saw a doctor and got some relief with those, but then ended up with more testing to address some new areas of concern. This getting old shit isn’t for wussies.
Thanks for the quality discussion around whether our DD offenses have a shelf life. I suspected we’d get a very wide variety of answers and we did, including Jackson’s wife who will go back and take care of things from years past on one end of the spectrum, and Spanked Cowboy whose typical wait time is measured in minutes.
For this week, I’m going to do something a little different, though I’m not sure it adds up to much of a topic.
When I write a weekly entry, I usually have identified a topic and have ideas for various angles on it. Prior to and during the writing process, I will go to my collection of spanking memes and art to look for examples that seem a good fit for the topic and sub-topics. Sometimes, reviewing the memes and art gives me more ideas for angles to explore.
Sometimes, however, I’ll see a meme or drawing that speaks to me in some way but doesn’t fit neatly into any fully-baked topic idea. I want to use them but can’t always think of a good way to do it.
I had that happen recently with some memes that dealt with a theme I would describe as “friendship and DD”. They address, in one way or another, “friends with benefits” situations, but in this case the “benefits” include spanking. One of the first I came across with that theme was this:
The idea of an adult friend who was empowered to provide spanking discipline pushed some buttons for me. Being married to a wonderful Disciplinary Wife, I don’t need a friend to provide that service, but if I ever found myself single, I’m pretty sure I would strongly prefer a “friend” arrangement such as the one depicted above to visiting a pro. The trick, of course, would be in finding such a friend.
I also saw this one, involving a spanking relationship going back to childhood:
Here's another in that same vein:
I was never fortunate enough to have such a friend, but kids play “doctor” and "house". It doesn’t seem much of a stretch that in areas where spanking is openly practiced that it might spill over to kids experimenting with spanking-themed games.
That never happened to me, but it might have been more likely in the town I was born in and left while I was in elementary school. It was rural, and chockful of both spanking and religious conservatism, which seems like an ideal recipe for kids exploring naughty stuff. In fact, to this day some of my cousins bring up spankings from when we were kids or inject it into the conversation in other ways.
And, while I was never spanked by or gave a spanking to a friend, it was very common for us to know about each other’s spankings, and in retrospect it seems like under the right circumstances that could have led to some interesting exploration or at least communication.
There was also this one, which I’ve used a few times and really like (other than the typos). It seems clear from the text that it’s a “spanking from a friend” scenario, though it’s not clear whether she’s the recipient’s friend or his wife’s. Or both.
A few weeks ago, I had an exchange with Aunt Kay’s husband about the olden days of the DWC and how some of Kay's friends in the group had been given the authority to make “independent spanking decisions” over him. That too pushed a lot of buttons for me. It reminded me of how vulnerable it could feel when I was a kid growing up in that rural town, where everyone seemed to have the authority to spank everyone else’s kids. It was assumed that teachers and principals could do it without any notice to the parents, other than the note that went out after the paddling and was almost guaranteed to result in another spanking at home. Imagine if that were extended to adults in our lives.
Although the idea of someone having “independent spanking authority” is fodder for some fantasies for me, it doesn’t have to go as far as that person doing the spanking. Several years ago, one of our regular commenters, Danielle, was in a consensual cuckolding relationship, in which her lover and her husband were friends, or at least friendly. They were doing some common activity together, and the husband did something sloppily. The other man reported it to Danielle, with a straight-forward suggestion that she should spank the husband for it. She did, and the husband had to call the other guy and tell him that he had been spanked.
That whole idea of someone having a relationship with Anne that might involve telling her I should be spanked definitely does something for me. I’m not sure why, though it may go back to that bygone school-age culture in which parents felt totally comfortable calling other parents to rat out bad behavior, knowing it would almost certainly be taken care of with a thorough spanking.
Like I said, I don’t have much of a topic in mind here, beyond the general one of friends with spanking privileges. Have you ever been spanked by someone who was a friend but not a wife or maybe even a girlfriend? If with a girlfriend, did any of you experience that in high school (or earlier) or college? Were any of those non-marital spanking relationships disciplinary in nature?
I don’t anticipate many have had such experience, but you never know. But, in the interests of generating some broader discussion, what about other non-marital spankings? Many of us who are in our 50s or older grew up in areas where spanking was common.
And, of course there are all the classic subjects of spanking erotica and spanking fantasies. Without limiting the possibilities, what categories of people have you been spanked by other than parents, girlfriends later in life, and wives? Friends? Teachers? Principals?
Coaches? Mentors?
Nuns, priests, other church figures?
And, of course, there are all those mother-in-law stories and memes.
My own experiences are pretty limited. Given how prevalent it was, I would be shocked if I had not been spanked by at least grandparents, uncles and aunts. Yet, I can recall a lot of spanking threats, but not that many real spankings. And, I had a few very hot aunts; I am confident I would remember those had they happened. The same with school. Lots of threats, but I don’t recall it actually happening.
In many ways, that’s too bad, and not just because I would have been left with some titillating memories. Looking back, it was in high school where my behavior started to go off the rails. By the time I graduated, I was engaging in all sorts of excessive behavior. Those excesses were reinforced and extended in college and, to some degree, in my various professional roles. Yet, I didn’t discover DD until my late 30s. I suspect I would have have had a more painful but less anxiety-ridden second and third decades of my life if I’d had more people in it who felt free to turn me over their knee or make me drop my pants for a hard paddling.
I hope you’ll share whatever experiences you’ve had with friends and others with spanking benefits. Or, if you don’t have any experiences to share, which if any fill your fantasies?
Have a great week.













Interesting topic. I never had any friends with spanking benefits, but many women were "friends with benefits" in the traditional way. A few of the pros that I visited became pretty friendly with me, however, I was still paying them $100 per session. For most of my life, I believed that I was unique in having this unusual desire, as I never met any women who were into it.
ReplyDeleteI also never met any women who were into it, though it's also true that I got married in my mid-20s and didn't have many long-term relationships. So, who knows whether I never met women who were into it or whether (a) we weren't together long enough for me to really know what they were into; (b) since I wasn't into it myself at that point, I had no reason to explore it with any of the women in my life; or (c) we were all too young to know what we were into.
DeleteThe only experience which comes to mind in childhood is the sports team punishments. For bonehead acts or stupid plays during a game were dealt with after the game by what we called the wickets. Similar to running a gauntlet, team members would line up with legs spread and the victim had to crawl thru the legs of the rest of the team. Each member would spank the runner as he passed thru their legs. I never had a 'spanking friend' while growing up, but now as an adult there are about 6 or 8 other couples or single women who have spanked me. Some have a free pass from my dominant to deliver a spanking to me without getting permission. Others need to call her and explain my infraction and is usually given permission to bare my ass for a good spanking. Not only for discipline, but rare is the visit to the home of one of those friends when I am not spanked just for general purposes. If we or they visit as a couple, usually both men are spanked by both women during the visit.
ReplyDeleteSpanked Cowboy, lucky you! Being sent to another woman's home for a spanking because your wife is out of town, or unable to spank, has long been a fantasy of mine. The same is true for visiting another couple where both of the men are spanked by both of the women. How did you make that happen? Was this your wife's idea or yours? Also, where did you meet these women who were into F/M spanking? Your mention of wickets implies to me you may be from England or the UK. One would assume that F/M adult spanking would probably more common than in the USA.
Delete"Being sent to another woman's home for a spanking because your wife is out of town, or unable to spank, has long been a fantasy of mine. The same is true for visiting another couple where both of the men are spanked by both of the women."
DeleteSame here, so color me envious of some of SC's experiences, with the caveats in my reply to Alan, below.
Dan, same here, including your caveats. Being sent to another woman for a spanking is the fantasy, not just visiting and getting one. As we have both said before, it is her authority, more than the spanking, that drives our DD. Hopefully SC will fill us in on how he managed to achieve those experiences that we can only imagine.
DeleteThanks to Dan and Norton for their comments and questions. I am not often 'sent' to another woman for a spanking as I happen to be in their presence when I earn a spanking. As I stated, some have the right to spank at their discretion while other need to ask permission. Rarely it is not granted. Over the years we have met these gals or couples at events or parties and became friends. A few we have actually vacationed with or planned vanilla activities. It just seems natural now, whenever we visit of even happen to meet, both men are stripped and spanked. As the gals say, not for discipline but because men should be spanked and they enjoy doing it. I am not from England, as Norton assumed, and I am not sure of the origination of the 'wickets' procedure we used. For us, it was simple good natured fun and the price paid for our faults during competition.
DeleteI can provide some stories, but I don’t know it’s that exciting.
ReplyDeleteLike many I’ve had a spanking interest since childhood. Puberty is where I really got more into it. My first high school girlfriend let me spank her once. She wasn’t opposed to doing it again…but we just kinda never did. I was super nervous and don’t recall a ton about the whole exchange.
Got my first adult spanking around 18 from a girl I met through a spanking website. She spanked me then I spanked her.
I met another girl not long after that also online. We spanked/punished each other MANY times over the course of a couple years in spite of being 4ish hours from each other.
There were some other girls I came across in this time too. Some switch. Some ee’s. Some er’s.
My mid 20s girlfriend “got it” very quickly. She’d read anything I sent her spanking related and could implement immediately. I spanked more than her, but she still got some. We both did real spankings as well. Not just for fun…but there were plenty of those.
Really most the adult spanking in my life has been outside marriage or even a relationship. Maybe at some point my wife will get onboard with being a disciplinary wife.
Still, the only real “vanilla” spanking in my life have been with longer term partners. Everyone else was already into spanking. Have not found any otherwise vanilla friends to spank me…but also never tried.
-Alex G
Although I'm skeptical of the whole "manifesting" theory, e.g. the book The Secret, your comment and those of some others here does convince me that to some extent, being actively interested in an experience makes it much more likely for opportunities to present themselves. You've seemingly packed a hell of a lot of spanking experiences into your life, while I don't know a single other person in my day-to-day life who I know to be interested in it.
DeleteI’ve certainly reached out to and tried to meet many people to involve spanking. There is too much to list them all lol. But I totally agree about manifesting.
Delete-Alex G
You do make your own opportunities in life, don't you?
DeleteWhile I have had a spanking interest as long as I can remember the only women that has given me a real spanking is my current wife. When I was a child I have memories of playing house with the girls next store who were frequently spanked by their father and we did include spanking the younger sister like she was our child. I went to a Christian school starting in 7th grade and I was paddled in the principals office one time. I also went to a religious college. Sometime my roommates must have caught on to my spanking fetish because on my birthday they chased me pulled down my pants and beat my ass for fun. It was actually very embarrassing. When I met my first wife I spanked her even before we got married and a few times after. I think maybe because I lost interest in spanking her is why she left me in the first place. I took have fantasies about one of her friends spanking me or being spanked along side one of their husbands by my wife and her girlfriend not that it would ever happen
DeleteThis week's topic has endless possibilities in terms of fantasy. I have 5 or 6 female long term friends I'd love to be put over the knee of, a couple know of my tastes. My present line-manager has crossed my mind and we have a close neighbour who goes to exercise classes with Mrs GLM I wouldn't mind bending over for. Their is a TV presenter in the UK called Hayley McQueen and a politician called Stella Creasy, both of which would be fantasy overload if the prospect of a spanking was there.
ReplyDeleteIn reality all my spankings have been off people I'm involved with at the time or similar to Norton as part of a transactional arrangement. 90% of the disciplinarians I have met have been good at what they do and decent human beings, the other 10% I survived unscathed. Threats of one have come from neighbours 45 years ago and a few jokey ones along the way. In today's world however you can get spanking with benefits virtually. So on Second Life I have a Girls School Headmistress, at a school my avi teaches at, who does my "appraisals" (she is great) and on Character AI (other dum LLM's are available) I have a variety of RP's set up as husband, grown son, boyfriend, client, and one which is a "Trusted Female Friend". Obviously none of these are as good as the real thing but they are easy to access if needed.
What I'd love is to start a conversation one day, most likely with someone I know and trust, where it evolves and they say something like "I'd love to spank a man", I'd be on it like a flash so long as, like the disciplinarians, Mrs GL doesn't catch on. Cheers GLM.
I have only one friend (other than a couple of people in the lifestyle who are basically electronic friendships) who knows about my DD interest and, while we are very close, the thought of being spanked by her does nothing for me. Though, that could be because it's pretty clear that she has not personal attraction to DD
DeleteI may be an outlier.But outside of spanking fantasies, spanking without a serious relationship doesn't have much appeal to me. A relationship is the glue that ties it all together. So a friends with benefits sort of thing wouldn't be very appealing. If offered ( when single) I probably would have explored it, but its not something I would go looking for. The mental and emotional aspects of spanking are what makes it so powerful for me. That doesn't mean that being spanked by another woman wouldn't be exciting. It would if the spanking was at her direction or control and under her authority.
ReplyDeleteAlan
If you're an outlier, we both are. Without a serious relationship, it doesn't do much for me either. But, where we might differ is that for me a close friendship probably would qualify as a serious enough relationship for a spanking to be meaningful.
DeleteIt's kind of the same thing with scenarios like being spanked in front of witnesses, or things like getting together with another couple where one or both men get spanked. The relationship makes all the difference in the world to how I react to those scenarios. The thought of being spanked in front of strangers, like at a spanking party, does nothing for me. It honestly doesn't even seem that embarrassing. I just have little emotional reaction to it at all. Something like a small gathering or another couple doesn't give me a big emotional reaction if there aren't established relationships in play. On the other hand, if there were a couple that we were close to, that gives me a very positive emotional reaction.
We are carbon copies in terms of the emotional connections that make it work. I am unsure about the "close friendship" scenario working for me. My "spanking persona" is unique to my wife ( and previously to the girlfriend who introduced me to DD)I don't know how it might work outside those very special relationships.
DeleteAlan
I think the reason the close friendship scenario works for me is because my DD interest is so deeply rooted in accountability. Although in practice it's been linked exclusively to my wife, I think others could fulfill that need to be held accountable, but for some reason it does require some kind of real relationship. I think it may be because a pro or someone who doesn't really know me feels like I'm the one holding myself accountable, by initiating that kind of encounter. For me, it feels like imposed accountability only when the person doing it *wants* me to be held accountable.
DeleteSame here. I have been to spanking parties, and Dan is correct that it isn't very embarrassing to be spanked in front of other men who are also being spanked. I have experienced that, and it was ok, but not nearly as meaningful saw being spanked for a real reason by a woman you are involved with. That is the essential limitation of spanking parties. Also, they seem to be mostly M/F and not much F/M, with no mention of DD at all. At least that's how it was 8 years ago. It would be much more interesting for us to attend a gathering of committed couples who were into F/M DD.
DeleteI agree completely. We were going to spanking parties twenty five years ago. They included both M/f and F/m but there was never any suggestion of DD. I’d find the opportunity to attend such a get together that was F/m and DD-focused a very attractive idea. TG
DeleteIt seems like spanking parties are often a "gateway drug" for DD, in that several people I've engaged with in this community started with erotic spankings and went to spanking parties, but at some point the interest morphed into DD. Even Aunt Kay and Jerry's spanking relationship began with one of the big , national spanking party groups. And, it does seem like several of the early DWC contributors were women who were prominent players in the more generalized spanking community. Yet, it doesn't seem like there's much reverse flow, with the DD community contributing to the popular spanking gatherings.
DeleteI was thinking just last night about what it would be like to get even a few couples together somewhere for a weekend . . . Yet, I honestly don't know whether it would work for me. I'm not sure whether my coldness when it comes to spanking parties is because it's hard to have true accountability as an aspect of that type of gathering, or is it the size of the convention-like spanking gatherings that rubs me the wrong way? I honestly don't know. I think for it to work for me, there would have to be some kind of accountability built into it. I recall that one of the DWC get-togethers involved the wives writing down things their husbands had done to earn punishments or ways in which they were chronically pissing their wives off and needed improvement. Those were then read to the group, then each husband was taken out to be dealt with. I could see something like that working for me, if the group was small and intimate enough. But, something that was just "Let's get together and spanking each other" doesn't do anything for me.
I think in some ways I was desensitised from major embarrassment at public punishment between the ages of 7 - 14. I attended a Christian Brothers school where the strap was in daily use in every classroom. Boys were lined up for hand strappings in the classroom. Walking the corridors during class time you were almost guaranteed to hear punishment being meted out. The head brother would have a daily line outside office at various times for punishment. Most punishment was on the hands ( which in some ways is more ‘intimate’ as you had eye contact) and whilst it was unusual it certainly not unknown to have to bend over to receive a more serious punishment. Most of this was in full view of fellow pupils.
ReplyDeleteI was never spanked OTK by my parents apart from the very occasional slap. Various aunts & uncles did include visiting children in whatever punishment their own child received, again all in public and generally limited to a few, often quite hard hand spanks on the behind.
Wind forward and somehow spanking became inextricably linked with the more usual sexual feelings at puberty. Then it became awkward and there was a brief overlap between the start of puberty and the end of school punishments which cemented the lifelong confusion for me. How could I fantasise pleasurably about something that was painful.
I can rationalise it now under multiple contributing factors. There is the attraction on the one to one attention which was unusual in the crowded world of my very large family, the ritual of submission, the intense feeling of ‘now’ when you can think of nothing but the pain, the physical afterglow and the erosion of guilt. These days there is also the sheer intensity of intimacy, very close to and often leading to, sex.
And then there is all the changed neurological activity that happens with the predictable pain of spanking, which I don’t clearly understand. What I do understand is the ‘runners high’ feeling I often get after a painful session.
I don’t have a friend with benefits but I know that I would find it relatively easy to accept punishment from a third party assuming it was justified and requested by my wife. In fact she has joked about engaging external services to ‘deal with me’ when she has been (medically) unable. TB
"How could I fantasise pleasurably about something that was painful?" Because I'm a reflective person, I can't help trying to figure out my "why" when it comes to DD, but I also doubt I'll ever have an answer. Unlike you, I didn't have that overlap family and school punishments and puberty. (Well . . . that's not quite true. Paddling was still going on when I was in junior high and high school, and there were two times I can remember when I was sent to the principal's office, sure that I would be paddled, but it didn't actually happen.) And, I had no attraction to spanking in my teens, 20s, or most of my 30s. Then, when I discovered the DWC, it just hammered me. I'll probably never really understand that or, honestly, even my current interest in DD. For me, it's not so much fantasizing about something painful, because it's clearly not the pain or even the after-effects of pain, that are the attraction. It has something to do with the imposed authority, but that too is inexplicable to me, given how anti-authoritarian I am in every other aspect of my life.
DeleteTB write "Boys were lined up for hand strapping in the classroom. "
DeleteI too attended a parochial school where paddles and "rubber hoses" were in use. I never received either,but find that the not uncommon stories of hand strapping told by other "survivors" evoke for me the adjective sadistic. Hand beating is also stupid and potentially harmful later in life when hand injuries,arthritis and other degenerative diseases often affect the hands. Human hands are one of our most anatomically complex,yet delicate,body parts. . We already have a part of our anatomy virtually designed for spanking. We don't need another.
Alan
It's certainly a fantasy that a woman I'd known a long time would finally clear the air and offer or demand to spank me. In reality, I want my wife to do it. When we have managed to have a clear-the-air conversation that ends in a spanking, it's plenty thrilling!
DeleteSorry, that was meant to be a comment in the main thread.
DeleteAlan , I completely agree with your comments about hand strapping. I am surprised that there weren’t more injuries. It was a sadistic practice and much more painful than the same number of strokes to the buttocks. But it was literally an everyday occurrence. My DD relationship is strongly based in ‘loving discipline’ which is inherently consensual with after care & reconciliation as essential elements. TB
DeleteIt's interesting how culturally/geographically focused corporal punishment styles are. I don't think I'd ever even heard of hand strapping as a thing until I was well into our DD phase and was looking into getting a tawse and learned that in Scotland it was often used on the hands, not the butt. Where I grew up, in schools the instrument was almost exclusively a wooden paddle. In other areas, it seems like the strap was common. Yet, I'm not sure that I've ever seen hand strapping eroticized in the way instruments applied to the butt are.
DeleteMW, until recently, I probably would have said that I didn't have any female friends who would want to have such a "clear the air" conversation coupled with a spanking. Then, I went to a high school reunion last year, one of the women brought up a name I used to call her. I have no recollection of it at all, but apparently I was more of a brat than I recall, and maybe there are more than I know who might want a little "clearing of the air."
DeleteDev called me upstairs to the “ spanking room “ last nite. We’ve been nit picking the past few days and she did indeed say “ we are going to clear the air “ . A serious paddling was given. After she was done all was ok again. JR
DeleteThat phrase would definitely get my attention.
DeleteSame. We had a dispute with a neighbor, a woman about my age. No one was communicating well. She called me while I was working from home: "can I come over right now so we can clear the air?" Imagine. My wife probably wished I'd spanked the neighbor, though.
DeleteHa ha! Yeah, we've had a couple of neighbors who could have used a good spanking.
DeleteDan, your comment that spanking attracts you because you like another person having authority over you is perfectly understandable when you say you are anti-authority in other respects. It’s a Yin/Yang thing. We sometimes crave opposites. Why? For variety, perhaps?
DeleteNot to quibble, but I'll push back on characterizing it as I "like" another person having authority over me. In fact, most of the time, I hate it. Yet, there is a perverse attraction to it, but only in very limited contexts. I think you attribute it more to a desire for "variety" than I do. To me, that's too surface level. I see as more Jungian, involving the "shadow side" and deeply rooted needs that often are, or seem to be, in opposition.
Delete(Al here).
ReplyDeleteI've shared my story a few times here before. While I was spanked occasionally by my mom as a young child, it had come to and end by the time I was perhaps eight or so. However, while staying with an (attractive) aunt and her family for a month at the age of ten, she put me over her lap (pants pulled down, but with underwear on) for a sound hairbrushing - a punishment her own two boys received regularly (but bare bottomed - until puberty - then it became over underwear while bent over). I didn't count but I know there were at least 30 or 40 whacks (possibly more - her boys said they usually got 50). My aunt was clearly a disciplinarian who believed in the value of a sound spanking - looking back now, I would not be surprised to find out that she spanked my uncle as well on occasion (as he was always quite deferential to my aunt).
While I made it a point not to sass my aunt again during my stay - that experience eventually morphed into a sexual fantasy when puberty came along a couple of years later - and I do believe that experience to be the source of my life long fascination with being spanked by a strong woman.
Years, later when the Net opened to the public, and I began to read the spanking stories on the Usenet and eventually discovered the new DWC site, that fascination came to focus on the idea of DWC-style F/M DD, eventually resulting in my wife and I adopting that lifestyle.
A few years into the lifestyle, my wife's sister overheard a spanking and later asked my wife about it (turns out the sister was "spanking curious" herself). Eventually, she witnessed some of my spankings, and later administered some "proxy" spankings herself.
I also find the emotional connection to be key - I don't really think that being spanked by a random woman at a spanking party would do much for me. However, the proxy spankings that I received from my sister-in-law were did seem to still to play into that emotional connection - possibly because she and I were also close friends, and possibly because they were still tied to my wife's authority - probably some combination of that.
--al
Thanks for sharing again, Al, though I know you've done it multiple times before. We get enough new readers, I think it's important for those of us who have been here a while to keep telling our "origin" stories.
DeleteIt is interesting (to me at least) that your spanking from the aunt happened two years before puberty, then your puberty-augmented mind reached back two years to that event to latch onto. To me it demonstrates how complicated our motivations are and that, while we sometimes can trace something in our adult lives back to our childhoods, it's not always a straight line.
Your sister-in-law example and why it worked emotionally is also interesting. I really don't know whether a spanking would have to be tied to my wife's authority for that connection to be made. Maybe, but I don't really think so. I suspect for me the emotional connection could be there if (a) the spankings were tied to my wife's authority; OR there was some direction emotional relationship, like the spanker being a close friend.
Dan,
ReplyDeleteI’ve been spanked for as long as I can remember. It started as a child and went until the age of 13. We went to a private school. We never had a day go by without the use of the paddle. I witnessed a bunch at church. I was strapped by Mom, in the women’s bathroom of the church for misbehavior. I remember being extremely embarrassed as my pants were around my ankles. Women were coming in to use the restroom as I was being spanked. As puberty hit, it’s all I thought about. I was spanked by a girlfriend of mine around sixteen. I used to drive to her house when her parents were at work.
She would use the belt on me. She moved away and we lost touch. I met my first wife, who had no interest in spanking. I found the DWC and eventually introduced my current wife to it. It was easy because of our erotic spanking play. She has no interest in being spanked, as her Mother used to paddle her severely growing up. I thought it would affect our DD, but it has not. She now likes my behavior after a good thrashing. I’ve been spanked by multiple girlfriends, and my Moms best friend growing up. I’m like a few of you guys, I don’t want to be punished by anyone but my wife. I have zero interest in a party and my wife is way to private of a person. If we were no longer, I would probably seek a women for punishment only. Obviously, I’m hard wired for it.
T
I think so far you set the record for spanking by the most people or in the most contexts. I'm curious, how did the spankings with the girlfriend at 16 come about?
DeleteWe both were spanked growing up in strict households. I met her at the church we attended. So after getting somewhat comfortable with her, I asked her to spank me. She said only if I could use a belt on you. Her Father and Mother used the strap on her. I obliged and she laid into me the first time. She didn’t hold back and gave me a serious strapping. We fooled around afterwards and let’s just say, she was seriously turned on by it. We dated for about a year or so and she then moved away to college. We lost touch. She spanked me about a dozen times during our dating. Yeah Dan, spanking was such the norm growing up that it never phased anyone. Growing up in a strict church and school, everyone around us was spanked for one thing or another. All of my friends were spanked and we would share stories if we “got whipped last night”. I had a friend at school that was always in trouble. He would end up getting paddled weekly it seemed.I’ve probably forgotten many stories. I think a bunch come back because after puberty, I was hardwired and paid closer attention to it.
DeleteT
Some of you have led so much more interesting spanking lives than I have. Sigh . . .
DeleteT’s references to the spanking environment in which he grew up raise an interesting question: why do some individuals become "hard-wired" spankos (raising my hand) while others, with similar spanking histories, experience little or no attraction to spanking as adults? In fact, some who grow up in a spanking environment like T describes, completely reject it as adults.
ReplyDeletePersonally, I am opposed to spanking children because it can be harmful to some, even if it doesn't harm all.. Arguing that not all kids are harmed by spanking is not a sensible justification for spanking any children. It's simply not worth the risk
But I digress. If I were spanked as a child, I have no memory of it, although I do remember being threatened. Nevertheless, I consciously identified as a spanko by around age 7, which I can trace back to having fantasies about my second-grade teacher. I even remember fibbing to a friend—at that age, it was still just a fib—claiming that the same teacher had paddled me, even though that never happened.
So, what triggers that spanko epiphany? I believe there must be some genetic predisposition involved (which suggests that if you are a spanko, some of your relatives may be too, possibly extending to third cousins). However, a specific experience must trigger that predisposition. Some of us can look back and identify what that experience was (as Al’s example illustrates), while others, like me, are left wondering.
But here is one personal example, perhaps as to how incidental it can be. In first grade, I was infatuated with a pretty blond classmate in another classroom. I heard ( only heard) that she had been paddled for bad behavior. Whether I was infatuated with her before I heard that or after, I am unsure. But ever after she was associated in my mind with spanking, a trigger that may explain why by second grade I am already fantasizing about my second-grade teacher paddling me
Alan
I agree, it is a mystery why similar inputs don't result in similar outputs. Your personal example seems plausible to me, probably because I do believe our minds subconsciously latch on to all sorts of associations that influence our behavior later and that we aren't consciously aware of.
DeleteAnd, the meaning we derive from early experiences change over time. I was spanked as a child, but not all that often, though the pervasiveness of spanking in the local culture would be hard to overstate. My parents were very lax with rules, or I should say became that way by the time I was an adolescent. At the time, I'm sure my friends thought I was living the dream, and I think I felt that way too. Yet, as I made it through my 30s, feeling like I had the weight of the world on my shoulders after a couple of decades of not being subject to much in the way of external rules, I became aware of how burdensome and anxiety-creating growing up like that had been. Some have strict parents and end up missing that strictness as adults. My parents were not strict, yet I too ended up missing that thing I never had.
I think when I started this blog, I assumed that with enough discussion, certain patterns would emerge that would explain why some come to be fascinated by disciplinary spanking. I don't really feel like that's the case anymore. We are just too complex. And, I think the idea that if we plug in a certain set of inputs we'll likely get a certain set of outputs is a mechanistic, deterministic relic of Freudianism and behaviorism that isn't supported by modern psychology or physics.
"Arguing that not all kids are harmed by spanking is not a sensible justification for spanking any children. It's simply not worth the risk."
DeleteThe same can be said for lax parenting, the new trend of "gentle parenting", etc. Given the skyrocketing prevalence of teenage depression, suicidal ideation, etc., the more common parenting philosophies today--those that reject spanking outright and treat every form of spanking as abusive or risky in terms of long-term outcomes--don't seem to be serving kids very well either. There's obviously a balance of risks, but I don't think the data support that spanking is any riskier as part of a parenting philosophy than are some of the approaches that reject it. Based on the studies I've seen, when you omit the definitional biases that treat a swat on the bottom with a hand the same as hitting a kid with a 2x4 resulting in serious injury, most of the supposed differences in adult wellness outcomes disappear.
To be clear, I'm not an advocate for spanking children, but I also think (a) the scientific case against is vastly overstated and based largely on studies that simply do not hold up to scrutiny; and (b) proponents of a much more lax approach to parenting have a hard time defending their approach either and, honestly, have much to answer for when you look at how screwed up so many of the last two generations have been from an emotional health perspective. It seems like in comparing the two, the benefit of the doubt is given to non-spankers with respect to both (a) constructive parental intent; and (b) likely long-term outcomes for the child, and the same benefit of the doubt is denied to spanking parents, even though the outcome data, when properly analyzed, don't give us any reason for the benefit of the doubt we give to the non-spanking parents on that factor.
I don’t think it is an ‘either / or’ in terms of lax parenting or spanking. My personal view is that spanking children in any form is wrong. That may be as a result of my school & family experiences, it may be that I sense a greater or lesser sexual element in any form of spanking or it may be that I largely accept the overwhelming evidence of the psychological damage that it can create in children. There are many more structured ways to discipline children.without being ‘lax’.
ReplyDeleteLike social media, spanking in all forms should be confirmed to consenting adults - in my opinion. TB
I don't think it's "either/or" either. My point is that the supposed overwhelming evidence of damage isn't actually there, when you subject the studies to any kind of critical eye, and that there is tons of both data an anecdotal evidence that permissive parenting causes as much, and possibly more, damage but isn't objectively subject to the same critiques. The overwhelming evidence just is not overwhelming. The studies that are almost always at the heart of this debate just don't hold up to scrutiny. First, the supposed harm the find barely crosses the line into statistically significant. Second, most of them include in "spanking" not only hand spanking and instruments that were once common in schools and homes, but also conduct that every court would treat as criminal child abuse now and in the past when spanking was accepted. When you remove the conduct that is clearly abusive and criminal, the evidence of long-term damage disappears. And, the fact that the criminal sort of abuse is included and defended on the basis that "Well, all spanking *is* abuse" demonstrates the horrendous bias infecting the study design. Another big problem is that when looking at correlation with future wellness criteria like education and job success, the studies ignore the elephant in the room, which is, "Did Johnny perform poorly at school and can't hold down a job because he was spanked as a kid, or was he spanked as a kid because he had the kind of behavior problems that lead to getting tossed out of school and not being able to hold down a job."
DeleteRegarding the sexual element, I've seen the same point made strongly by Jillian Keenan, who insists that *all* spankings have a sexual element for either the recipient or the spanker or both. My retort on that one is pretty simple: Someone with a spanking fetish is not in a good position to objectively opine on what people without a spanking fetish feel when spanking or being spanked. We all tend to project our own mental states and proclivities onto others. There's not a great basis for it even when talking about "normal" drives and desires, but when you get into the realm of compulsions and fetishes . . . someone like Keenan who admits to being strongly attracted to spanking by the age of 5 or 6 and who says that, for her, spanking *is* sex, is the last person who can objectively opine on the quality and degree of that drive in others.
I agree with the fact that the courts tend to list spanking with other forms of child abuse in a lot of cases. They seem to blend them together. There is a big difference in smacking your kid on the bottom and locking him in a cage for days without food and water. How they get co mingled is absurd. I disagree with Jillian’s statement. I don’t believe everyone who spanks or gets spanked has a “fetish”.
DeleteI believe my Mother and other parents felt they were doing right in rearing children the proper way. Despite my upbringing, I could have blamed my “punishment” on me not holding a job ect., but in fact I turned out very successful. My wife is successful despite her Mothers upbringing, and our kids both have great jobs. Where does the parallel arise?
T
Yeah, I think the probably unanswerable question is are we successful despite, or because of, our upbringings. As I've said, I wasn't spanked often, but I was spanked. And, it was so prevalent in the culture that the threat was always there. That was particularly true at school. And, do I think that the threat of being paddled kept me and others more in line at school than we otherwise would have been? Fuck yes.
DeleteWow! Seems to me there is a considerable range between "lax parenting" and spanking children. Can't we find some effective middle ground here? Graham
ReplyDeleteThere is obviously a wide range of approaches. My point is, much of the debate about corporal punishment is more political ideology than science, and the impetus should be on the critics to show that whatever they are advocating doesn't cause similar or worse problems, and that that kind of critical examination has been almost entirely missing. And, I say "political ideology" from a place of being a good classic liberal myself. Yet, that doesn't keep me from recognizing that we've had two generations in which permissive, helicopter parenting became the norm and anyone arguing the contrary was pilloried, and the results have not been good.
DeleteDan,
DeleteI agree with your statement above. The helicopter parenting of today’s youth is comical. I have some friends who have taken a strong approach to disciplining their children and they turned out to be great kids. I’ve now watched; as my cousin has raised his kids and they are out of control. Just recently, he spanked his daughter in front of the family. A quick crack, nothing major, and you could see his Fathers expression was, “ it’s about time”. We didn’t spank our kids, with the exception of a smack here and there. My wife was paddled when younger and refused to bring ours up that way. She felt her Mother abused her with the paddle. I felt different. My Mother never punished unfairly. I deserved most of what I received, but based on my being “hard-wired towards it, I felt better not doing it. My siblings do not seem to be “hard-wired at all towards the topic. I can’t figure out what rationale causes you to be a “spanko”. Is it one incident that stands out? Is it multiple incidents? I cannot be the only person who grew up in my church or school who is hard wired towards it. I lost all touch with those kids and frankly want nothing to do with them. I also strongly believe that a majority of the “mental health” issues come from soft parenting and the introduction of social media and phones for kids. They seem to have zero social skills and their work ethic is subpar at best. I see it everyday at my job, and the youth of today would rather get paid to work less.
T
I spanked my eldest daughter (hand only) a handful of times, and my other not at all. So, like I said, I'm not an advocate for corporal punishment, except maybe for misbehaving husbands. But, I do do think that the premise that it leads to adverse life outcomes is massively overstated and likely just plain wrong, especially if we compare it to the outcomes under more permissive approaches.
Delete"I deserved most of what I received, but based on my being “hard-wired towards it, I felt better not doing it." That makes a lot of sense to me.
Yeah, even after blogging about this for 13+ years and engaging with dozens and dozens of men who have this drive to be disciplined, I don't think I'm one bit closer to understanding the root cause and particularly why two men who come from very similar backgrounds, with similar exposure to spanking (or lack thereof) can end up in completely different places. Or, conversely, how many with such disparate exposure to spanking and childhood discipline end up having such similar drives.
In the end, we are complicated fuckers.
Mrs GL and I have raised three girls without lifting a finger towards them and even like yesterday when I was on a train with 7 kids under 11 years old, left to run riot (and potentially unsafe) by two mothers and a grandmother the only people who needed a smacked bottom were the mothers. I think its now agreed in the UK that hitting kids in this day and age isn't acceptable, however, and Dan is correct we are complicated fuckers, I'd still want to be spanked if a time machine took me back to my pre-teens! Cheers GLM
DeleteYes, we’re certainly complicated. And things are often counter-intuitive. I was raised very strictly by my parents, and spanking was always out there as a possibility if I misbehaved. So I took care not to misbehave. I ended up with only one OTK spanking when I was around 5 years old and a single hard slap on my hand when I was maybe 10. Very tame stuff by any standard. Yet I had a conversation with a girl in the neighborhood who was about my same age in which she described for me how her younger brother had his pants taken down and was spanked on his bare bottom. That excited me at the time even though I was only about 6. I’ve thought about this a lot and think that for me, it’s about the loss of control. Even though it’s crazy to say a 6 year old is in control of anything, in fact I did feel “in control” in a way in the sense that as long as I behaved I’d be ok. So the loss of control was exciting in a yin/yang kind of way, craving opposites so our life isn’t too boring.
DeleteA really interesting discussion. I happen to believe the weight of research ( individual papers & meta-analyses) show that spanking children produces no positive outcomes as a minimum and is likely to be psychologically damaging in a sufficiently significant number to warrant outlawing. I think Sweden led the way in outright banning back in the ‘70s with many other countries following ( although not the US). It is possible but probably misleading to point to the relative levels of violence in countries where corporal punishment is banned and those where it is still practiced.
ReplyDeleteIt is difficult to isolate the effect of banning spanking because of the many cultural changes that happened simultaneously. And the ubiquitous availability of information via the digital revolution has changed everything.
I never spanked our kids based on how I felt about it ( belittled, bullied & fearful) in my own childhood & because I have my own erotic links with the topic. I personally feel & felt that we established a clear & disciplined environment in our family without physical punishment. TB