Maintaining the DD and FLR Spanking Dynamic With Kids, Social Commitments, Travel and Other Distractions (Meeting 523)

“A man who can't bear to share his habits is a man who needs to quit them.” ― Stephen King, The Dark Tower

Hello all. Welcome back to The Disciplinary Couple’s Club.  Our weekly on-line gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, a Domestic Discipline relationship.

 

I hope you all had a great week.  Mine was kind of a mess.  I was supposed to be adventuring on my motorcycle for the better part of a week.  Unfortunately, the trip came to a sudden and unanticipated end when I ran into some mechanical difficulty in a very inopportune place. It took about a day to get it fixed, which turned into a fiasco in its own right.  There was enough trip left that I probably could have caught up with the group I had been riding with, but I had also banged myself up a bit, and the entire trip felt cursed.  So, I gave up and rode several uneventful hours back to homebase.

 

 Oh well . . . I keep telling myself that the whole point of adventuring is to put oneself in uncomfortable and potentially painful situations.  Sounds a bit like Domestic Discipline, doesn’t it?

 

A couple of weeks ago, when Anne and I were out on a more sedate adventure, MissE left this topic suggestion:

 

I was reading back over the comments posted on last week’s post and wanted to throw this out there for possible future discussion - Dan, you mentioned that the DD front has been quiet for you both as you’re currently traveling and staying in other people’s homes. How does everyone handle keeping at least the dynamic and accountability alive when staying or being around others for extended periods of time, especially if spanking is not necessarily an option?

 

For instance, my husband and I are in the home stretch to buying a home, so in a few months we are going to go live with my family for a year to save the last bit needed. Obviously, this will provide new challenges, especially regarding our DD. But even aside from that, those of you with children too, or an active social life with your community, how do you reinforce her authority when alone time is limited?

 

We’ve talked a lot about maintaining a Domestic Discipline lifestyle with kids in the house.  Much of that conversation has centered on what kids should know and when, and I think making a conscious decision about that is probably necessary if one of your goals is keeping up a consistent DD dynamic, because I’m not sure there really is a way to do that without being somewhat open to, well, openness.

 

Now, in offering that opinion, I’m definitely in “do what I say, not what I do” territory.  Anne and I were NOT open about the DD aspects of our relationship when we had kids in the house.  But, our paranoia about others knowing, including our now adult children, is something that, with the benefit of hindsight, I see as a mistake.   

 

It led us to accept inconsistency as the price of parenting while in a DD relationship, and I now believe the trade-off was more voluntary and, perhaps, more unnecessary than it felt at the time.

 

I also often wonder whether it may have been pointless.  Kids know more than we think they do, and I have a hard time believing that neither of our kids put two and two together.

 

In fact, I know one of them did draw some conclusions about the overall power dynamic, because once she became an adult and was out of the house, she did ask Anne some probing questions about the fact that Anne seemed to have taken on more decision-making authority.  That was the result of Anne getting somewhat more comfortable with displaying her authority, but it was still pretty subtle.

 

It was a lesson that I could have learned a few years earlier from a commenter named Holly, who had these observations based on her own childhood in a household headed by her disciplinary mother:

 

“Kids know or suspect if you are in a serious disciplinary relationship, even if no spanking is involved, and for sure if regular spanking occurs. Living in the same house you cannot not know a spanking is being administered or that one has been administered. Even if you don't hear it you know from the way everyone acts. (I will admit boys are a little dense about this, as I knew well before my brothers did.) My mother was probably more open than most women and probably spanked more often than most. But ALL spankings were in private and as far as I know she never talked about it until well after we were grown. Before my marriage in my case and after marriage in the cases of my brothers and their wives.

 

As you have described your wife, she actively uses her authority, gives you orders, expects to be obeyed, and more and more acts in charge. A woman is not a disciplinarian only when she is holding a strap. Your kids are aware of that relationship between you even if they are not aware that you are punished with spanking. She is in charge. I grew up knowing that and believe I chose a husband who allowed me to behave much as my mother. (Actually, he chose me, but knowing my mother spanked made a big impression on him.) Your wife may be correct that the kids don't know about the spanking. But the physical discipline is only part of "passing it on." It’s the presence or absence of real DD in the relationship. My three brothers also chose women who controlled them. Two of them are spanked by their wives, while I am not sure about the third. But they are all happy (so are their wives)."

 

We did manage to keep our DD going despite not being consciously open about it, but it did come at the price of both consistency and her inability to fully explore and display her authority.

 

Both our kids were young when we started DD, which allowed Anne to conduct sessions in the basement after they were asleep.  In the teen years, they stayed up later than we did, so DD sessions had to be relegated to times they were both out of the house. Often, working sessions into a hectic, unpredictable schedule meant taking the rare opportunities whenever they presented themselves.

Another option is to deliver a quick session with an especially quiet instrument.  Though, I still have a hard time believing that kids won’t put two and two together if mom is frequently calling dad to the bedroom for a quick “discussion”.

 

 

There were also a few times when I would be called home from work for a spanking while the kids were in school. Or, work schedules allowing, an early morning spanking once the kids were off to school might be workable.

 

Honestly, I wish I had better advice for maintaining the dynamic with kids around but, apart from being OK with a greater degree of openness about it around the house, I really don’t. The fact is, it was hard to maintain any regular DD dynamic.

 

Our social life has not been a big impediment to reinforcing her authority.  In fact, in one limited instance, it’s allowed her to more openly display that authority. I’ve talked a few times about an incident that occurred a year or so ago, in which we were out to dinner with another couple, and Anne believed I was dominating the conversation and behaving boorishly.  When the husband and I stepped away from the table for a few minutes, Anne told the wife—a mutual friend who is the only person I’ve told about our DD lifestyle—that she intended to spank me.  I’m sure it reinforced her sense of her own authority, and it humbled and embarrassed me, which further reinforced our dynamic and our respective roles in it.

 

But, again, the only reason the dynamic was reinforced was because we had opened up to someone about it. In order to really grow the dynamic, I think we would have to explore other opportunities for her to more openly display her power.  

 

I’m always fascinated by the story our former (and hopefully future) commenter KOJ has told about his wife become much more openly assertive once they retired, and how that culminated with her spanking him at a party taking place in another’s home:

 

“The "anywhere, anytime, for any reason" grew out of our shared belief that the best way to break bad habits is with immediate consequences -- similar to the gentleman who got spanked in front of the light switch he forgot to turn off. For years those immediate consequences happened only when we were alone, but as I have mentioned she became much more brazen after our retirements, including threats in front of just about anyone and punishment in earshot of others. She never invited witnesses but there was one accidental witness, a story I will tell someday.”

 

"Then came the shock of my life that I have previously mentioned when she took me upstairs during a party and set me on fire with a hairbrush that could be clearly heard, and then we returned to the party. Now that was a surprise! But I must say that it dramatically improved my behavior out in public because I did not want a repeat of the embarrassment."

 

Another small step toward maintaining the dynamic while socializing has been warning me, while out socially, about what will await me if I don’t toe the line.  There have been many occasions when my behavior was starting to drift and Anne would whisper a reminder to behave and a threat of what would happen if I didn’t or would pantomime a spanking motion while others weren’t looking.  

 

 

Couples might also choose to use their social calendar to reinforce the dynamic by incorporating “preventative” spankings into their preparation for social events. Although Anne hasn't done this often, she has a few times, and I can attest it kept me thinking about our dynamic throughout the event.

MissE also asked about maintaining consistency while traveling.  We have not done a good job of that. I usually bring an innocuous “pervertable” item that can be used for spanking—such as a heavy leather belt—when we travel together.  But, it rarely sees the outside of my suitcase.  Although she has used it a few times, it’s very apparent that she is squeamish about other guests overhearing.

 

Also, given that our roadtrips are often in a van, there is very little real excuse for not simply pulling over somewhere convenient to take care of attitude and other problems on the spot.

 

 So, I’m clearly not the best person to talk about how to maintain and foster the DD dynamic in the face of kids, social, work, and other distractions.  Hopefully some of the rest of you can give MissE some concrete advice. 

 

In light of her upcoming move back into the parent’s house, and the references in this post to being spanked at a party, I’m also curious whether any of you have been spanked in another person’s home.  If so, I hope you’ll share some details.

 

 

Have a great week!

 

 

 

 

 

What If You No Longer "Needed" Disciplinary Spankings? (Meeting 522)

“Have no fear of perfection - you'll never reach it.” - Salvador Dali

Hello all. Welcome back to The Disciplinary Couple’s Club.  Our weekly on-line gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, a Domestic Discipline relationship.

 

I hope you all had a great week. Or two.

 

It’s been a while since we had a real post, and I almost canceled this one.  We were on the road for about 10 days, staying with friends for a few nights, and the rest living out of van and hotels with two adults and two dogs.  In temperatures capping out well over 100 degrees. 

 

I was more than ready to get home. But, after a couple of days sleeping in my own bed, I’ll be off on a motorcycle adventure for a week starting this weekend. 

 

As an introvert, I hate feeling over-scheduled, even when it is fun stuff and by choice.  I’m hoping that the last part of the summer is more settled than the first.

 

As for the trip we just returned from, it was generally good, even if it involved too much time on the actual road. Anne and I got along better than we usually do when traveling, possibly because my attitude was a bit better than usual.  But, it’s all relative.  I have definitely had my moments of temper vis-à-vis other drivers.  And, although I always feel justified when I get into a bad mood when traveling, in retrospect I also almost always recognize that some of it was childish and merits a childish punishment.  So, if she decides to spank for it, it’s more than warranted.

 

Since I am going to be out again and unable to respond promptly to any comments or requests to release captive mis-identified spam, I decided to post this one a little early, and it will have to be sufficient for probably another 10 days or so.

 

Norton has brought it up a couple of times, though last week it was introduced with this anonymous comment:

 

As a possible future or sub-topic I’m curious what happens in a DD relationship when the reasons for punishment disappear or are eradicated? I have been punished on average I estimate every 10 days since we started many years ago. Sometimes more frequently, occasionally less. Recently we seem to be in complete harmony and even when we are not, I have controlled my usual irritations, sarcasm and/or rudeness. My wife has even commented how pleased she is that there have been no reasons for a session.

 

How long this will go on I don’t know… I’m curious about other people’s experiences or thoughts?

 

Norton responded:

 

There were several comments r.e. what happens to your DD if you become a changed man, and the need to be spanked largely disappears? My current experience is much the same as the first commenter's, as I said in the last post. Of course, I still have fantasies about being spanked, and they seem to be a core part of my sexuality. However, for the last 6 weeks, I haven't felt the need for a spanking, and have been very careful to not do anything to earn one. We continue to have a check in every week, but it no longer includes a spanking, which it has every week for the last 5 years. She still has the authority to spank for any reason, and that could even include stress relief for her. I could also ask her for a spanking, and will do so, if I realized I needed one. She enjoys being spanked foreplay, which is a turn on for me, but she doesn't want it to be the least bit real. She doesn't get turned on by spanking me, but she does enjoy some of the other benefits, such as having a better behaved, more vulnerable, partner, and having more power in the relationship. It seems like this may be a relevant topic to explore, since three of us have commented on it already in this post.

 

Alan illustrated how his DD relationship has developed over time with respect to how often he needs—or, how often his wife decides he needs—a spanking.

 

Every couple probably carves out their own timetable for “how long it takes” to get to that point where the need for spanking is extinguished or sharply diminished. But I expect that most couples experience a gradual decrease in the use of punishment spanking over time, not a full cessation of spanking: it always remains a part of a relationship. My wife has said she expects always to need to spank me at least occasionally. For us, disciplinary spanking frequency reached its initial maximum within about two years and stabilized there for several years. Somewhere around six or seven years, she tightened the boundaries on a lot of things I was doing (not doing actually), and the frequency of spanking shot up again for several years. Somewhere between our 12th and 15th year of DD, it gradually declined again to what became our long-term “norm”. (3-5 spankings a year).

 

That norm can fluctuate a lot from year to year. So, until last year, I had been getting 3-5 punishment spankings a year for several years, but last year I probably got more than one a month on average. But during the pandemic, I went over a year without being spanked, so there was a lot of fluctuation.

 

So that’s the big picture. Within that big frame, however, there were phases. One phase, still operating with us, is that the scope of her standards and expectations kept enlarging. Chores and responsibilities around the house kept increasing (not unreasonably), and strictness in enforcing rules tightened up. Things become “spankable” that originally were minor offenses or not even within the scope of discipline. Some once minor spankings became major ones, and so on.

 

A separate phase was the rebellions I put on when she tightened the screws on me or clipped my wings in some way. These bothered her initially, but she learned to expect them (and how to deal with them). We both consider those “mini” rebellions part of a healthy dynamic, although very early on, they did put a hit on her confidence (as well as my ass).

 

I also tend to “get in trouble” in bunches. Historically, the winter holidays have been a very dangerous period for that, and multi-day travel by car is similar. Interestingly, these instances of high risk have gone down over time as she has handled them more decisively, but they still do occur

 

So “what happens when there seems no need to spank …)? Each couple must work that out –no cookie-cutter formula exists for it. Apparently, some couples use maintenance spanking or (as my wife has done) increase the use of “preventive spanking.” These can fill that void while keeping things on an even keel. In any event, if we were at a point where we were missing the absence of spanking, I hope we would sit down and decide together if that was a problem and, if so, what to do about it. What can help heaps is a wife or GF just expressing pleasure at your good behavior and maybe including an implied threat about the consequences if that behavior doesn’t continue.

 

I admit I haven’t thought a lot about what would happen if I suddenly no longer deserved spankings periodically?  It’s because I don’t really foresee that happening.  Or, I don’t see it happening until I’m old enough that it will be more about lack of energy than about a fully reformed character. 

 

That’s why I led with the quote at the top of this post.  I know myself well enough that I seriously doubt that I will reach a point where I don’t do stupid, imprudent things.

 

And don’t lose my temper when driving, especially on long, hot trips.

 

Or, do careless things that result in wasted time and diminished bank balances. Or any of the myriad of other things I do that push or buttons or have a tangible negative impact on one of our lives.

Now, the question of whether a time will come when I don’t deserve spankings is different from the question of whether I might reach a point where I don’t feel like I need that part of our life anymore.  But, the two issues are intertwined. 

 

There have been times when I thought maybe I had matured to such a point that I no longer needed imposed boundaries and guardrails. Then, as if merely by having that thought I jinxed my own development, I would always do something that reinforced that no, I had not reached some new pinnacle of personal development that made DD unnecessary in my life.

 

Norton’s question is, in some ways, probably a litmus test regarding our respective primary motivations for wanting this kind of relationship in the first place.  Is it about the accountability?  The need for penance?  The need for boundaries and limits?

 

Or, is it just a spanking fetish?  If our behavior improves to the extent that we don’t “need” a spanking in the sense of deserving one and profiting from the boundaries one imposes, would we still “need” one in the sense of desiring it even if consequences were not at issue.

 

For me, that’s a tough one. A few years ago, I probably would have said that my desire was so inextricably tied to the need for accountability that spanking without that element would have no attraction.

 

I think that’s still mostly true, but I think over the last few years I’ve also come to appreciate how much my need for accountability is intertwined with a need to be under someone’s authority and to experience the vulnerability that entails. 

 

Moreover, even if my behavior did improve by leaps and bounds, I suspect the goalposts would keep getting moved, either in the sense of her getting more consistent and strict in punishing agreed upon behavior or in coming up with entirely new areas to address.   

 

 

And, in my opinion, that’s how it should be.  I don’t think there will ever be a point where I’m wholly satisfied with my behavior and accomplishments, and I doubt a time will come when I don’t want my wife to have the power to push me along.

 

Although our DD relationship began at my request, over the years she's reached a point where she enjoys her control and authority, both in terms of its effect on my behavior, and also for its own sake.  Therefore, I don't foresee a time in which she suddenly decides that she has the perfect husband and, therefore, she no longer feels a need to exercise control - regardless of how I assess my own level of reformation.

I’m reminded of a couple of comments left by KOJ (I hope this is just one of his periodic long absences and that he comes back around soon).

 

“Here's a paradox. In the first years of our DD (until I was well-trained), the better I responded to my wife's spankings, the more spankings I got!

 

Why? Two reasons.  One, she saw that they worked to improve my attitude and subdue my male ego, but I still had a long way to go in her eyes. Two, she saw that spankings worked, so she kept adding issues covered by DD. 

 

 

First it was all about respecting her. Then she added treating the kids better. Then she added respecting others. Then she added punctuality. Then she added my drinking. Then she added picking up after myself. Then she added actual chores. Then she added procrastination. On and on -- a seemingly receding horizon of new issues that guaranteed me an almost constant sore backside for a decade.  And she was right about every single issue.” – KOJ

 

“I think one of the reasons that our DD really took off is that my wife truly did have goals for me; it wasn't me asking her to hold me accountable for goals I was setting. She decided the goals, and she enforced them with hairbrush and bath brush. I knew these goals were good for me, or for our marriage, so I did not object.

 

She would just announce them: ‘You're going to lose 20 pounds over the next three months. You're going to start exercising five times a week. You're going to stop saying the F-word. You're going to ask permission before you have a third drink. You're going to call me when you have to stay at work late.” On and on and on.

 

She always had at least one goal for me in addition to frequent ‘attitude adjustments.’ When I developed one habit she wanted, she would start on a new one. It became a challenge for me; a game but a real one -- to achieve the goals she set. When I got lazy or forgetful, my butt got the reminder. It worked for us!”

 

In terms of frequency, ours is roughly similar to Alan’s, with probably about 5-6 spankings a year, though it fluctuates a lot.  Where we may or may not differ is that I see that average as less than ideal. That level of frequency is more closely tied to our challenges with consistency than to my actual behavior.  In other words, the fact that I get spanked only a half-dozen times a year or so does not mean that I don’t deserve to be spanked way more often than that, and it definitely doesn’t mean that a half-dozen times a year is sufficient to address all the areas she has indicated she’d like to change.

 

For us, the ideal is probably something much closer to what KOJ describes – escalating levels of control on her part, more frequent spankings to reflect her desires for my behavioral change, and a generally heightened inclination on her part to use the power that I know she has come to enjoy.

 

How about you?  What do you think would happen to the DD aspect of your relationship if the behavioral changes you both initially wanted to address were fulfilled?  Do you think that’s even likely? In the possibly unlikely event that it did happen, would she simply move the goalposts?  Is that something you would want?  Or, would the spanking aspect of the relationship continue but without the linkage to behavior correction and being held accountable?

 

Have a great week-to-10 days.

Taking Some (More) Time Off - Happy 4th.

 

Happy Independence Day for those of you in the United States.  We're still on the road, so I won't be posting this week (again).  Enjoy the holiday and be safe.