Saturday, March 30, 2024

The Club - Meeting 472 - Attitude, Disciplinary Wife Temperament, Others Knowing, and Wisdom From a Past Commenter

"To do great things is difficult, but to command great things is more difficult." - Friedrich Nietzsche

 Hello all.  Welcome back to the Disciplinary Couples Club.  Our weekly meeting of men and women who are in, or interested in being in, Domestic Discipline and/or Female Led (FLR) relationships.


I hope you all had a good week.  Mine was pretty sedate, which is good because I needed to recover some energy for a family trip we have coming up next week.


Relatedly, just a heads-up that I will not be posting next week, as we’ll be on the road. I hope to be back in in posting mood two weekends from now, but it could be delayed by a day or two.


We’ve been so busy preparing for the trip that I haven’t had much time to come up with a topic, and there wasn’t a super obvious topic among last week’s comments.  But, I will highlight a few here that caught my attention. 



First, I had noted that Anne was always reluctant to be more open about our DD relationship at home was her fear that the kids might lose respect for me.  This illustration from our Glenmore maybe unintentionally illustrates her point:

I replied with a military analogy: “In our scheme, Anne would be the general, which outranks me as a colonel, but I way outrank the kids who start out as privates and might graduate college as lieutenants at best.” In other words, Anne may outrank me, but I always outranked the kids by a lot.


Carl H. replied with this:


Dan, love your 'military rank' analogy which I frequently use. I like to say that marriage is the perfect democracy - because the vote is almost always tied - LOL. DD in an FLR is the ultimate 'tie-breaker'' While I can make a strong case for DD in a Male Dom relationship, I also believe that two aspects of DD are particularly suited to Fem Dom:

1) Males perform well in a hierarchy such as the military;

2) Males respond well to physical stimuli such as food, sex and yes, corporal punishment.


IMO, he’s right on all counts.



Ward had a couple of great comments on negative attitudes:


My problem has never been alcohol or drugs. I can very quickly become negative and when she sees it, I know that one or more spankings are coming my way until she sees a change in attitude. I was recently spanked three days in a row. I can be very stubborn about letting go of a negative attitude given challenging circumstances. Three nights of going to bed so sore that it was difficult to sleep. I finally gave up the negative attitude. She has been very happy this week with my change even though she knows it will most likely be short-lived. She can become very strict when she sees the attitude. The truth is I want her to blister me good for it because it is my nemesis that I can't control much like alcohol for some it is something that I can't stop.


I understand hanging onto a bad attitude.  We do sometimes have a tendency to nurse our grievances and tempers, don’t we?  His comment about getting spanked three days in a row, until the attitude finally disappeared resonated with me, as Anne and I have been talking a lot recently about the need to be resolute and firm and being willing to mete out punishment until I finally change the behavior at issue.


Ward also had this to say about how his bad attitudes contrast with his wife’s more balanced temperament:


“My wife is always right until she's not, but her ego is so much less in the way than mine, so empowering her to spank me even if I might be right keeps my ego from bullying her into things, and she will always figure it out eventually. I guess in some ways being spanked even when you are convinced that you are right empowers her more, because I'm trusting her with everything, knowing that she will get us to the correct answer every time even though it may not be instantly. She doesn't let her ego get in the way when she realizes she may have been wrong. She won't apologize for spanking me because she is the boss, but she will admit her error and correct her thinking that's what makes her so perfect for me.”



That too resonates strongly. I don’t think Anne is any smarter than I am, and I don’t think she necessarily has better judgment.  In fact, I tend to be more analytical and linear in my thinking than she is. But, where she vastly exceeds me in a way that matters for who should be in control is temperament. She’s simply more balanced and less prone to excesses.


ZM had this to say about openness and the prospect of others, including family members, knowing about a husband and wife’s DD hierarchy:


“For us, there is no question that the thing that kept us from going forward to check-ins was never having the house to ourselves. And on the very rare times that we were alone, who wanted to spend it on punishing me?


I think that is one reason that at some level, I wish that DD could just be totally open and matter-of-fact with no element of privacy. So then it wouldn't matter if others were around or not. Of course, I am not saying I would really like that, and certainly part of the big attraction to FLR/DD things is the hidden/kinky secret side of it. But still, in practical terms, the need for privacy has been the biggest impediment to actually implementing it and maintaining it consistently.”


I told him I understood that tension well and that it reminded me of comments made on this blog several years ago by a Disciplinary Wife who went by the name Holly.  She had grown up in a home where mom was in charge and it was an open secret—or no secret at all—that dad was spanked along with the kids.


A couple of years ago, I compiled some of the older comments into a searchable format, so in conjunction with replying to ZM I reviewed several of Holly’s comments. There was so much lived experience in them, I really do wish we could entice more female participation.


So, for this week, since I had no topic, I’m just going to post some of Holly’s comments and let people react to them and to anything above.


Regarding growing up in a DD household and knowing dad got spanked:


“Kids know or suspect if you are in a serious disciplinary relationship, even if no spanking is involved, and for sure if regular spanking occurs. Living in the same house you cannot not know a spanking is being administered or that one has been administered. Even if you don't hear it you know from the way everyone acts. (I will admit boys are a little dense about this, as I knew well before my brothers did.) My mother was probably more open than most women and probably spanked more often than most. But ALL spankings were in private and as far as I know she never talked about it until well after we were grown. Before my marriage in my case and after marriage in the cases of my brothers and their wives.”


I don’t know whether she’s right that kids always will know or suspect.  When ours were younger, we waited until they were in bed.  As they grew older, we generally did it only if they weren’t in the house at all. We generally kept tools locked away, but was there never a slip up? I also have kept hardcopy journals for years. Could they have snooped and discovered one with spanking references?  In the end, you just never know.  

But, I do know that over the years our kids have figured out that Anne has assumed some preeminent role around some decision-making and that she does things like handing out chores. They also have picked up on the fact that she sometimes uses language that sounds more like a command than a request.  



 All that fits with this Holly comment:


“As you have described your wife, she actively uses her authority, gives you orders, expects to be obeyed, and more and more acts in charge. A woman is not a disciplinarian only when she is holding a strap. Your kids are aware of that relationship between you even if they are not aware that you are punished with spanking. She is in charge. I grew up knowing that and believe I chose a husband who allowed me to behave much as my mother. (Actually, he chose me, but his knowing my mother spanked made a big impression on him.) Your wife may be correct that the kids don't know about the spanking. But the physical discipline is only part of "passing it on." It’s the presence or absence of real DD in the relationship. My three brothers also chose women who controlled them. Two of them are spanked by their wives, while I am not sure about the third. But they are all happy (so are their wives)."


In the end, I don’t know what our adult kids know now, but I agree with ZM that our hyper-sensitivity about kids knowing was the #1 factor in preventing us from achieving any real consistency as long as there were kids in the house. Of course, it didn’t get that much better after they were gone, but the pattern had been laid and it now takes conscious effort to break it.

Here's more from Holly on growing up in a family where spanking was the norm and how that probably made her more comfortable with it later:


“I have read that being spanked makes you a better disciplinarian but that wasn't my experience. Although my mother often took the strap to my father, I never saw it. But I did see my brothers punished many times and it left me convinced that males were easily controlled with a strap. 


When we were first married, I never expected to discipline him using corporal punishment, although I was in charge from our first date. Only after seeing my husband display many of the behaviors that got my father punished (particularly temper tantrums), did I decide to introduce him to the strap. Even then it was my mother’s encouragement, after she heard him call me a “bitch,” something he had done before but that I had let go. The really funny thing about it is that I was completely oriented to using the strap and my mother even gave me one when I started. But it turns out my husband has a fetish for being spanked that way, so these days I deal with him with my sorority paddle or a cane which definitely do not turn him on.”


Again, Holly’s stories had a ring of truth to me because she often did things consciously to avoid playing to her husband’s fantasies, like figuring out he had a fetish about a particular instrument and deciding to use something other than that instrument.


Here is this regarding how her husband’s brattiness was the equivalent of asking for the DD relationship:


“Calling me a bitch was what led to my husband’s first appointment with the strap. He had done it before, but my mom heard it for the first time and told me I was a fool for allowing it. There were other things going on at the time, including his general brattiness and increasing temper tantrums when he was frustrated. It was a big change for me because I had been determined to manage my own marriage different than my mom had done. But over a period of time, about three years, I saw the same behavior in my husband that had got dad in trouble with mom. When I told him what was going to happen, he gave me almost no resistance. That makes me think he wanted me to take charge and his brattiness and tantrums were his way of asking for it. He knew how mom had run things and I think that made him want the same thing from me. The strap transformed him into a sweet loving husband. I don't think that would have ever happened if I had not acted (or, to be honest, if mom had not pushed it.)


Something that always gave Holly’s comments the ring of truth for me is that while moms passing along spanking tips to their daughters often is spanking fantasy fodder, she was initially very resistant to her mother’s prodding.  It was only after her husband finally crossed a line that she decided to pick up the strap.  


Once she did so, however, she came to accept that being the disciplinarian wasn’t just about controlling her husband. Rather, she came to affirmatively enjoy and get off on that power and control as this comment, in response to my topic about whether discipline ever involves an element of “payback”, illustrates:


“This is a good topic. I want to answer that deterrence of his childish and unacceptable behavior is my reason for spanking him. It was my original reason, encouraged by my mother (appropriately), and I had reason to believe it was something he wanted too, but he was unable to admit he felt he needed boundaries (now he readily admits it). But the desire to punish him is also part of it and was probably there from the beginning. I am getting stricter with him, which means his appointments with Ms. Strap happen once or twice a month. Controlling his behavior is still what motivates me to consistency and follow-through. But payback from a sound spanking is part of what I get out of it too. I guess what I am saying, and a little shocked at saying it, is that even if I got no behavior rewards from spanking him I still would do it for punishment. Maybe I am turning into a bitch, but men just do better with boundaries and consequences.”



More on “bitchiness” and embracing her assertive side:


“I think we are all "bitches" to our husbands when the rubber hits the road (so to speak). I reconciled myself to this long ago. The amusing thing is that, growing up, I thought my mother was a bitch for spanking too often and severely. Now, I find that although I probably do not spank as often as she did, I certainly spank harder. If a wife wants results, she does need to be a bitch sometimes. As Tina Fey said, "Bitches get stuff done." I am not saying that being a bitch is necessary to be a good disciplinarian. But sometimes being a bitch is just what is needed, and don't be intimidated by the fact that someone (like your husband) might think you are a bitch once in a while.


Great stuff. Hopefully, there’s enough above to drive a good conversation until we get back from our trip.


  1. I would say the term 'birch is a bit harsh and unfair to describe wives who asset themselves.
    I agree with Molly's comment that as wives become more comfortable with administering discipline to their Husband they enjoy the power and also the 'payback dynamic.
    I can attest that my wife's demeanour as she is about to administer punishment reflects that she is looking forward to it and enjoying the power of he payback .
    Have a great trip Dan!

    1. Glenmore, I don’t like the term bitch, but my wife has the bitchiness in her. I agree with Holly’s comments above, about how a wife knows how to be a “bitch” to her husband. All of our wives know our trigger points so to speak. My wife knew I was spanked in my youth. Mom made casual references to my wife about the spankings I received. I also like Holly’s comments about growing up. I thought that my Mother was too quick to spank. I also realized she needed to nip the bad behavior in the bud quickly. My wife does that now. I like how Holly states, controlling his behavior and consistency is key to leading to better behavior. That resonates with me. My wife sees massive improvement on my part after a good thrashing. She says I’m much more attentive, loving, caring, and supportive. The consistency part for us is up and down. I feel the need to be punished for my negative or stubborn behavior. I’m kind of blown away by Holly’s story. Her husband didn’t put up a fight about her spanking him. He needed correction and she thought that her sisters spanked their husbands. Most of us approach our wives with DD. Her story seems far fetched, almost fairy tale like. It’s almost too good to be true. Although, I think it’s great that these men were attracted to strong willed women who knew how to treat, love and respect them. My wife’s Mother dominated the relationship. She was the boss. Her Father always took the backseat. I’ve stated before, my wife and her siblings were paddled and she still holds resentment over it. I assumed that would affect our disciplinary relationship, but it hasn’t. Her Mother never spanked her Father. He also was the final say, but he knew how to toe the line. In my wife’s parents case, just because her Mom was the boss, doesn’t mean they were in a DD relationship. I have run into a few couples in my time, where I “thought” hmmm. My wife does enjoy the power dynamic and the payback from giving me a thrashing. She definitely has upped her game over the last few years.

    2. Thanks, Glen. Anne seldom admits that she enjoys the spanking itself, but she does like the whole process of ordering one, making me prepare to take it, etc.

    3. Thanks, T. It's obviously impossible to know whether someone's story is real or "almost too good to be true." I think Holly's ability to "convert" her husband is more plausible in light of some of her other comments, which included that his behavior got a lot worse after she told him about her parent's DD relationship and that her father was spanked. As she describes it, he basically started "bratting." So, in effect he was "approaching" her for it, just in a very dysfunctional, passive-aggressive way.

      While I think it is rare, I do now that there are situations where the DD relationship is instigated by the woman. Through this blog, I became friends with a woman in a F/m DD dynamic. I've met her in person and talked to her live several times. She's told me the entire story behind her relationship, the DD aspect of which began after her husband had some very dysfunctional dealings with a domineering ex-wife. My friend finally just exploded and started imposing rules on the situation. But, she also says that they had been into some kink that gave her reason to believe that her husband would accept her taking over and might even get off on it. I think that's more or less what Holly is saying -- she was successful in imposing her will but she also had reason to think her husband would cooperate with that.

      "Bitch" obviously is a word with some harsh connotations, but I truly believe it is better for women to embrace it and, as the modern saying goes, take back the power by using it. When I was at the top of my career and surrounded by up and coming young professionals, I can't tell you how many super talented women I saw who struggled to move up the management ladder because they had a hard time giving orders, and when I would mentor them about it, the #1 reason they gave for their reluctance was not wanting to be seen as "bitchy." I told them, until I was blue in the face, that whenever I had to give a male employee negative feedback, they undoubtedly left my office mutter under their breath that I was an "asshole" or a "dick." There is no functional difference between those words and "bitch," and they are applied equally by subordinates when pissed off at a superior. Yet, for some reason women are more prone to taking it personally and, worse, to letting it keep them from leading.

    4. I have never known a woman who initiated DD, but like Dan, I have no trouble imagining it occurs, albeit not commonly. One source would be the apparently few “natural” female tops, themselves likely to want to introduce disciplinary spanking into a serious relationship. Such women do exist and possibly may be increasing in an increasing sex-positive milieu in which women are steadily gaining power.

      But the more likely source of women introducing DD is probably women who have been in a female-led DD relationship already. I believe female-led DD relationships must be more stable and longer-lasting than any vanilla alternative. But there are a variety of reasons that a relationship ends. And when it does, a woman who has acted as a disciplinarian may come to enter into a new relationship with a man who is open to or actively seeking DD.
      A woman once in a DD relationship is, of course, not sure to want or seek another. Most women who have been in a DD relationship likely have a Que Sera Sera attitude about another one (again, excluding the natural top). But, given the apparently substantial number of males open to a female-led relationship, some proportion of women once in a DD relationship are going to meet a man or men who are at least open to it, if not actually eager for it.


    5. "Such women do exist and possibly may be increasing in an increasing sex-positive milieu in which women are steadily gaining power." I don't have any basis for knowing whether the number of women open to DD is going up or down. But, I do think it's probably the case that more women are comfortable taking charge more in all their relationships. The DD-FLR practicing woman I mentioned above told me at one point that most of her female friends, at that time in their late 20s or early 30s, seemed to be in relationships where they seemed to call the shots, though she had not reason to think they were in full-blown DD or FLR relationships. It makes sense though, not so much because they are more open sexually (this last two generations seem remarkably prudish), but because--let's face it--young women are just kind of kicking ass these days while young men are floundering. Women are outpacing men on college and grad school admission, graduation rates, standardized test scores, etc., while young men vastly eclipse women on negative criteria. Given that women are stepping up while men are fucking up, yeah, it makes sense that new hierarchy would show up in the prevalence of DD and FLR relationships at some point.

    6. Ann may not admit that she enjoys spanking you Dan , but based on your descriptions, she certainly spanks with a lot of zeal!
      I'm sure if you had a photo of her face when spanking you there is a big smile on it the whole time.

  2. During our early days of DD I was getting a spanking and one swat seemed especially hard and I let out a cry and said: "you bitch". Domino paused and said "you think I'm a bitch, ok, then it is bitch you get." I then received one of the longest and hardest spankings I have ever had. Needless to say those words have never passed my lips again.

    On another note... Two weeks ago we took out RV trailer on a shake down trip for a couple of nights. The first night about 2230, the propane tank in the RV next to us exploded and set the RV on fire. We and the other neighbors did all we could to help the injured and fight the fire until the fire department arrived. Just a reminder to those that camp to not take your safety checks lightly. It was not a good experience.

    1. Hi Antonio. See my note to T., above. Sounds like your wife has no problem embracing the "bitch" word. Good for her!

      We have an RV--one of those ridiculously over-priced off-road van builds. I'm quite obsessive about it. On-board propane is definitely a risk factor. Ours doesn't require propane for heat, which is nice, but I do keep a smaller propane bottle for outdoor cooking.

    2. I'm late responding to these posts, but want to add that my wife isn't really offended by the word "bitch" (or more often "bitchy") when it's aimed at her in private. It's almost a badge of honor, especially as she has become more assertive in her approach to our married life. But woe unto me if I characterize women in general that way, and she would be especially displeased if others heard it. That happened once and I was punished for it later. It's also the one time I was threatened with a mouth soaping, which fortunately didn't happen.

  3. Hi all, I recently found this blog. Im excited to join a DD discussion with other married couples and learn from your experiences. My husband and I have been practicing domestic discipline and flr our entire relationship these past four years. I always knew I needed this so before we even began dating I told him who I was and what I was looking for. It has been an incredible journey and added a beautiful layer to our marriage.

    Speaking of embracing being a “bitch”, I sometimes worry that because I was the one who initiated maybe he doesnt in fact ‘need/want’ this like I do and is only tolerating it for the sake of our relationship. Granted, we have had many many discussions about these fears and his wants, so this fear is not exactly valid, but I still worry.
    I only say this because when I fully embrace and lean in to my dominant side, I am fair, but am also a ‘bitch’.
    It makes me feel alive in a very powerful way.
    But Im not in fact sure if that is overwhelming or too intense for him. He has mentioned before that to him, it almost feels like I flip a switch and it feels forced. I never had this hesitancy or issue with partners in the past, however, the amount of love and respect that I hold for my husband makes me far more reserved so as to not do any permanent damage (mentally/emotionally) to him. (And just a general fyi, we’ve definitely talked about this already and been open about our limits etc)

    I feel like in the case of many of your relationships, you have an advantage in that the man was the one who initiated this dynamic so your wife need not worry whether or not it is actually good for you.
    However there are times that my husband will be spanked Repeatedly for the same offense and I wonder if it is in fact doing him any good. Making him feel safe, secure, and cared for? Helping him become a better person? Or if that is merely my lens of view. For example, two weeks ago I saw his inspection sticker was expired so I gave him a week to get it done. At the end of the week he had not done it and completely forgotten. I spanked him, told him to set a phone alarm etc to remind himself and gave him another week. This past weekend, he had again not gotten the sticker so Saturday I spanked him again. He has this week to get it but I am somewhat doubtful he will. In which case this weekend he will again be over my knee. Cases such as these make me wonder if it in fact is working for him, or maybe I need to change my tactics in some way…
    Any similar experiences or advice?

    1. Welcome Miss E. Glad you are here. My spouse also initiated the DD in our marriage. Slowly working into it and gageing my reactions until she had me asking for a DD FL relationship.

      Looking back on it she was very clever and patient. As for your question, I think maybe he needs to pass that line from where it is erotic or simi-erotic to discipline that he pays attention to and wants, but dreads at the same time. Domino moves to daily discipline if I seem to be ignoring her requests/commands. She calls it"maintenance". Perhaps he needs some daily maintenance until he does what you have told him. Just my suggestion but everyone is different. Let us know how it goes. Once again, welcome.

    2. Hi Miss E. Glad you found us. Welcome!

      You said, "I feel like in the case of many of your relationships, you have an advantage in that the man was the one who initiated this dynamic so your wife need not worry whether or not it is actually good for you."

      While that sounds perfectly logical, for us I'm not sure it was the case. For the first several years of our DD relationship (we started about a decade into our marriage), I always felt like I was more engaged with it, and there were consistency issues. At some point, I gave my wife a book called The Hesitant Mistress, and something seemed to click. She told me that until then, she couldn't understand why any man would disciplinary spankings or an FLR lifestyle. Therefore, she always felt like I might decide one day that I didn't actually want it and would yank the rug out from under her. Hence, her lack of commitment. I'm actually not sure why that book resonated with her, as it's quite a bit further down the FLR-Femdom spectrum than we've ever gone down, but it did seem to help.

      I don't think she's ever really doubted that DD is good for me. She knows it is. But, I think she's starting to see that, given my issues with authority and tendency to test boundaries, a stern, consistent hand is necessary to make the "good" aspects of DD more permanent.

      It's hard for me to know why your husband seems not to be getting the message. Is there any chance you're not spanking him hard or long enough or maybe not using a serious enough implement? If not, maybe he just doesn't mind being spanked that much and you need to find some alternative that he REALLY dislikes.

      When my wife threatened to spank me every day for a week if I got a ticket when we were on a trip last year, the threat of a single spanking might have been something I decided to risk. Every day for a week? No way I was going to test that boundary.

    3. RE: "The Hesitant Mistress" (2013) by Dvanna Hightowwer.

      I believe that Ms. Hightower's book has one of the best descriptions, and possible explanations, of the nature of "submissive men" that I have encountered. While I don't fully agree with all of her description and hypothesis, she explains how this "tendency" can exist in men who are otherwise (or appear otherwise) to be quite dominant and "alpha."

      I know that among us DD-recipient men it is rare for us to EVER describe ourselves as "submissive," possibly due to the social stigma associated with that term, and how we feel our wives might interpret such a self-description. However, there can be little doubt that us DD-recipient men are voluntarily engaging in a tremendous amount of "submission" at the highest possible levels!

      It's possible that this apparent contradiction between self-descriptions and actual behavior can be very perplexing for our female partners. Maybe this was what limited your wife's understanding, and Ms. Hightower's book's section on "submissive male" psychology allowed your wife approach this apparent contradiction from a different perspective?

      (Sorry if this seems to intrude into your person life. I have limited understanding of the details in your life, but that book is certainly remarkable in "opening" women's understanding of how to be "assertive" in these situations.)

    4. For those who don't have access to Ms. Hightower's book, I just thought I might add what I consider the most relevant excerpt of her description of the psychology of the "submissive male:"

      "The submissive man is not weak, any more than an obedient soldier or star
      athlete is weak. He will push himself hard to meet expectations. A structured
      environment helps him focus. If an authority points him in a direction and sets a
      deadline, he suddenly has a defined challenge to conquer.

      "He wants to be the best man he can be, and that means overcoming his faults.
      He hates that he cuts corners and procrastinates. He craves correction, even as he
      hates needing it. He doesn’t want to slack off when no one’s looking. He wants
      your high standards, your tough love. He wants you to accept nothing less than
      his best effort.

      "The submissive man will accept guidance only if he knows it’s good for him.
      He is not a doormat, someone too helpless to protest as others walk all over him.
      He has the right to complain, to question, to call a halt to any situation he
      disagrees with. . . . "

    5. Antonio, Dan, Donn,

      You all have sold me on The Hesitant Mistress. Buying it today! Currently I am in the middle of reading The Mistress Manual. I love the books that delve into the psychological aspects of everything rather than just the 'fantasy' side. So if you have any other good recs please feel free to share! Slowly building a library.

      Antonio, I hope I am not asking anything too personal, but as it was your wife who introduced the dynamic, did you ever feel conflict with your identity. For instance, did/do you consider yourself a more dominant male, and domestic discipline / flr cause you to question who you are. My husband is a switch, I'd say 70% sub 30% dom but in all areas outside of our relationship it is not apparent. Essentially he has only ever submitted to me. Even in previous relationships he was the more dominant one. Needless to say, these past few years as he was coming to terms with his more submissive side, it raised many "what is a man" and "does this now make him weak" questions. Unfortunately, we live in an area that is about as conservative, traditional, and "manly" man as you can imagine. Reading through old articles and posts, I was surprised to see that many of you do not consider yourself "submissive". This is a concept that has never crossed my path in my research. I have always seen it presented as the roles of dominant/submissive are very much set. Therefore, if you are taking on the more submissive role (spankee) or the man in a flr, then you are a submissive male.
      I'd love to hear your thoughts on how you distinguish it.

      I appreciate the advice with maintenance spankings.
      I've often thought about enforcing these, however I've seen some pros and cons.
      If you are being spanked every day anyway, regardless of behavior, then does it diminish some of the power or potency of being spanked?
      Could it make you less concerned about behaving?

      In addition, this is a touchy question, just know I'm wondering if anyone else has a similar experience. My husband was physically abused for years as a child. Certain implements I don''t use on him strictly because it causes flashbacks. Initially this was a huge concern for me with introducing DD and we started off slow, had many discussions, and progressed only at speeds with which he was comfortable and felt safe. Now, spanking itself is no longer an issue, I still only use certain items, and I tend to do warm ups/not push him too hard. Even if the punishment is for a more serious offence, I only go so far. We have both begun discussing more recently the idea of pushing his limits. I can feel that he doesn't ever completely submit or let go in a spanking, though I know he tries his best. We use a safeword during spankings because of his past so that he feels safe. So he has been working to refrain from using the safeword and give in as much as he can, however, I want to give him a real, intense, potentially crying etc spanking. I want to feel him fully give in. He agrees that he wants to give me that, but he is also worried of what will happen because of his PTSD. Also, sidenote, he is beginning individual therapy and we both will be going to a kink friendly couples therapist soon, so this is on my list of questions to ask her. Just curious if anyone else has a similar experience? Did/do your wives have to 'push' through your initial inner resistance while being spanked?

    6. "I have always seen it presented as the roles of dominant/submissive are very much set. Therefore, if you are taking on the more submissive role (spankee) or the man in a flr, then you are a submissive male."

      I am confident that most of my friends and former co-workers would be absolutely shocked to know that I am on the receiving end in a DD relationship that also has some FLR aspects. I worked construction and as a bouncer in college. I'm a weightlifter. My primary hobby is riding adventure motorcycles on trails others fear to tread. I've been a top performer in major organizations. My last CEO described me as "pugilistic," based on my anti-authoritarian tendencies. I grew up in very conservative areas of the country, and I'm pretty confident of my ability to hold my own in a fight in any bar back home.

      The fact is, some men who are into DD and FLRs are submissive in other aspects of their lives. But, many aren't. When I first learned about DD, my assumption was that most men in these relationships were "alpha" for lack of a better word, driven, type-A personalities. After starting this blog and hearing from others, I came to realize that I was projecting a bit. I now think it's close to a 50-50 split between those who are submissive at work and in other roles outside the home and those who are the opposite. This is one problem with building a library on this stuff -- almost everything out there (including The Hesitant Mistress, by the way) is either Femdom/Ds/BDSM-oriented or draws heavily from those kinks. But, while there are a lot of overlaps, they are not the same thing as DD. Unfortunately, I think the Hesitant Mistress is about as close as you can find in book form. Honestly, on reason I always end up returning to the DWC website and manuals is they're still the best repository out there for real-life stories from both men and women in this lifestyle.

    7. Regarding "fully giving in," I wasn't exactly abused as a child, but I was left with some pretty controlling tendencies that I suspected are rooted in childhood chaos. In twenty years, I've never completely and fully given in--what I usually call "surrender"--during a spanking, despite the fact that the stories on the DWC depicting a husband breaking down in tears were the ones that really hit me the hardest. I've always been fascinated with the prospect of letting go and crying, and lately I've gotten close, but I can never quite let myself go over that edge. We don't use a safeword and, for me, I think it would exacerbate the problem, because it would leave me feeling even more in control, which would frustrate the process of letting go. But, you're right, it's a touchy subject.

    8. Ms E,
      I’m glad we have a female here to contribute to the forum. Although I like the camaraderie here, the group is small in size and it’s nice to hear a new perspective. I’m like Dan, I don’t feel I was abused as a child. I do feel though by today’s standards, I was abused. My wife does use implements that my Mother used on me when younger. They do bring back memories when she is thrashing me. She likes to use the spoon and strap. A small wooden paddle like my Mother used on me. I’m like most of the guys here. I’m an alpha man’s man. If you saw both of us out, you would never gather we are into DD. My wife was paddled
      when younger and she resents that punishment. I thought it would be tough for her to deliver a severe spanking to me, but with my encouragement, she has gotten much better over time. Like Antonio, my wife now gets off at times thrashing me and at other times she is sending a message. We do not use a safeword and I don’t ever want to have to use one. I feel it means you’re controlling the punishment. I’ve had some strong strappings and haven’t cried or fully given myself as well. I don’t know how long it will take for that and I believe it would take some extenuating circumstances to achieve that release. Welcome aboard

    9. "I do feel though by today’s standards, I was abused."

      Good distinction.

    10. I appreciate the warm welcomes.

      Dan, Is the email address referenced at the bottom of your Medium articles still active? I reached out a little while back in reference to some of the articles you posted. Just curious.

      I appreciate you all illustrating the distinction for you as a dominant or submissive man in a DD relationship. I think I have always viewed the role the man holds in relation to his wife as his identity (thus the reason he holds that role) whereas it would seem you define it as the roles you hold as a man outside of just your relationship hold a larger consideration. Correct me if Im wrong. Chicken and the egg kind of thing perhaps?

      For those of you that mentioned you have never fully let go and surrendered or cried in a spanking, though you dont have a safeword, why is that? What do you think is that last piece that hinders you from achieving this?
      Is it more of a “beat him harder” matter or a “psychological” aspect?
      And if this is something that you want to achieve with your wife, what would be the best way for her to lead you in this?

    11. Welcome Miss E. Thank you for sharing your perspective here.

      Identifying as dominant or submissive is confusing for me as well. My feelings are that I do not identify as a submissive person, yet I fantasize about being married to a woman who acts as an authority figure. I have a fascination centered on disciplinary spanking, and that puts me in a submissive position despite my personality or life outside the interest.

      I think for some men, submission comes naturally and is aligned with their desires, while for others like me, submission is a compromise. The motivation is to satisfy a desire for discipline and the attraction we have to a strong woman. I use the word strong rather than dominant. A DD wife certainly could be a dominant personality, but like a parent can be strict, decisive and determined, outside the role of parent, not necessarily a controlling type of person.

    12. Dan wrote: “One reason I always end up returning to the DWC website and manuals is they're still the best repository out there for real-life stories from both men and women in this lifestyle.”

      It is hard to disagree with that, but you also maintain a link on your site we may have never discussed ( Vivian—Better Spouses)

      Recently I had an opportunity to read (or reread) it. The author may or may not be “Vivian.”( I do detect a male voice in there). Regardless, much of the material resonates strongly with my own lived experience. It may not be a woman writing, but it seems to me to be very much spot on, especially the psychological aspects of female-led DD. But I would appreciate your view of it and that of anyone else who has read it. As a piece, it would seem to complement the DWC material nicely


    13. I have read "Better Spouses" and found it pretty good. I didn't detect the male voice in it, as you did, so I am curious what it was that got your attention. Whoever is the actual author, they explicitly went out of their way to say this was a site written by and for women. I have read parts of it to my partner, as it seems to present F/M DD in a clear and understandable manner, and included personal explanations of how it worked. It has a matter of fact tone, and goes into great detail about how to approach testing the husband to see if he really wants DD.

    14. Norton asked: “I am curious what it was that got your attention”.
      It was largely an unarticulated intuition -but don’t dismiss intuitions, assuming they are well grounded in facts and evidence. In this case, I inferred the level of detail and understanding had to either come from a male spanko or, less plausibly, a woman who understands the practice and psychology of females, leading DD to an astounding degree. Female authorship is, of course, possible, perhaps a professional or even a kink-aware psychotherapist, perhaps with a lot of personal as well as professional experience. But on balance I think it is more likely to have been written by a male spanko of some considerable experience. But I am just assessing the probabilities. I don’t know for sure


    15. Miss E, thanks for asking about the email link. It is active. Just found your message in the spam box. We're traveling this week but I'll try to respond soon.

    16. MIss E:

      You mention in one of your posts that you "initiated" / "introduced" DD into your marriage.

      From reading this blogs past entries, you are likely aware that only a small percentage of DD-relationships are initiated by the wife.

      I'm curious how you first learned about female-led DD, how you researched the subject, and how you ultimately decided it might enhance your marriage? Did you have any other female family members (or friends) who engaged in female-led DD during your upbringing or current life (a very common background of other women who initiate DD).

      Thanks for helping us understand the wife's perspective on these matters. And thank again for joining us and contributing.

    17. Miss E wrote: “…He has this week to get it but I am somewhat doubtful he will. In which case this weekend he will again be over my knee.”

      I was just reading this at the end of the week, but I want to make a general suggestion about deadlines.

      What we have found to be highly effective is setting the deadline as close as possible to the present. This not only keeps the task at the forefront of the assignee's mind but also ensures timely completion.

      For instance, instead of giving him a week, consider setting a deadline within a day or two, and specify the time as 'by Tuesday noon'.Threatened punishment is an abstraction if it's too far in the future or going to happen “some time,” But “ I am going to warm your ass if that is not finished by dinner tomorrow” focuses the mind.

    18. Donn,

      For as long as I can remember I have been drawn to certain things. I remember as a small child I realized that seeing my male friends get spanked or watching movies where a boy was punished made me feel a certain way.
      Once in my teens I spent a great deal of time fantasizing about these things but I didnt know people had relationships like this in real life.

      As an adult I began to truly research the different lifestyles, dynamics, and relationships. I have always been drawn to the psychological aspects of bdsm/flr/dd rather than it being strictly a fantasy/sexual thing.

      I always knew that I would need a partner who could give me that, submit to me, and feed that need. Luckily, my husband had certain needs as well that meshed with my dominance and allowed him the ability to embrace his more submissive side.

    19. Miss E:

      Thank you for sharing.

      What you describe is very similar to what many of the men here describe as their earliest life's "awakening." They simply felt "it" very strongly, from their earliest memories. "It" was then enhanced through adolescent observations and experiences of various types.

      I know it can be hard to share such intimate parts of a person's psychological self-knowledge and development, especially with relative strangers. But this forum and the general anonymity it provides has helped many of us men express are own experiences, and learn of others experiences, helping to alleviate feelings of isolation that many of us have felt and suffered from. Again, thanks for sharing!

    20. I agree. The beauty of blogs like this is the ability to talk openly without fear of judgement.
      Personally, though there are a few people who suspect our dynamic, there is no one I can actually talk to about it, so I love the opportunity to be open and honest with likeminded people.

    21. Miss E, I was in a marriage where my wife was the one who initiated the use of disciplinary spanking. She brought it up very directly and firmly, explaining that some of my habits were offensive and that she was not going to tolerate them. I was taken aback by the vehemence with which she told me this, and I realized that she was very serious and refusal on my part would result in real bitterness and discord. My use of sarcasm was what triggered this pronouncement but clearly she had been thinking about this for some time.
      For the first six months or so the spankings were frequent, and after that they became much less so as they did have an effect on my behavior. There were no "maintenance" spankings. Each one was for cause and quite painful. She used the over the knee position and in time developed certain rituals which emphasized her complete authority and control. She was very confident and clearly enjoyed these displays of her power and authority. She was a natural disciplinarian.

    22. Hi Tom,
      Sounds like it was a great experience. Did you ever resent her for it? How did you come to terms?

    23. My feelings about it changed over time. Initially, I knew that she was really right that some of my habits were offensive, e.g. excessive use of sarcasm which had a bite, finishing people's sentences for them. Also I have to admit I was stunned by the whole thing, by her assumption of authority regarding my behavior. Eventually I just accepted it as a feature or our personal life. Strangely perhaps, for a long time it created harmony in our marriage. And also strangely she treated me as the head of the house. except for when she decided I had to go over her knee.
      Towards the end of the marriage, I began to consider some of the spankings unfair. I still submitted, though with some protest. The marriage ended, but not because of the spankings. We just grew apart. If anything, the spankings prolonged it.

    24. It caught my attention that while she was the one who initiated dd, she still treated you as the head of the house. Generally, I see where the females who initiate dd also tend to hold the more dominant role in the relationship. Interesting how theres no ‘one size fits all’ when it comes to these dynamics.
      Do you think you would ever pursue dd in future relationships? Or is that something you feel more neutral about?

    25. First, to clarify something. I am the one who just responded to your comments starting with "it sounds like a great experience." I mistakenly let it appear under Anonymous. As to her considering me the head of the house, I don't really know if that is unusual among wives who spank. I know it was helpful for me to be treated with respect in the presence of other people. But she really did look to me as the decider on many matters. However, she made it clear that in matters of behavior her word was law.

    26. Tom said, “However, she made it clear that her word was law in matters of behavior.”
      This has been my experience, too, in both DD relationships. Both women assumed the role of the family disciplinarian but wanted a partner who was a full partner -who, in the words of my former GF, offered a “whole, happy, healthy relationship.” In my first DD relationship, the sense was that I was subject to discipline mainly for offenses that harmed, threatened, or did not support the relationship. That has carried over to my marriage. It isn’t quite that simple because both women demanded unchallengeable authority to discipline. But in practice with some exceptions, discipline has been about things I do that harm myself or our relationship

  4. I am not 100% sure of what the intended question for this week is, but the responses here suggest it is about women being "bitches".

    Maybe people here are of different generations and so they have addressed the subject differently. I have a feeling that it may simply be a case of people valuing what appears to be scarce.

    My personal perception regarding my generation is that "boss chicks" are ten a penny and that consequently, they are a turnoff to most men of my generation.

    That said, even if we don't want "boss chicks", we still like the idea of using spanking to bring about harmony, rather than having a long period of passive aggression.

    On the subject of where wives tend to get the idea from, I definitely think mothers passing it down to daughters is one of the best ways of keeping it going. I hope my wife passes it down the generations. I won't be able to, so hopefully, she will, to both sons and daughters. If she has normalised it in this way, it will make it easier for them to pick it up when the time comes.

    And I don't think any wife should feel guilty about "getting off" on spanking her husband. She should be able to whatever her reason for doing so, even if "getting off" is the only reason.


    1. J, It took my wife a while to admit that she really enjoyed spanking me and causing pain. She liked the results at first and then found herself enjoying it. Sometimes she is enjoying just getting me in line and other times it seriously arouses her. Depends on her attitude going in I think. Either way I like the dynamic.

    2. And absolutely nothing wrong with it if that is the case Antonio. An entirely normal thing for a wife to do.


    3. J,
      Im not sure about passing it down from one generation to the next. I think DD, FLR, ect will disappear over the next few generations, now that spanking is a no no. I will say that there are no more man’s man like we grew up. The new generation is soft and weak. I have noticed that in my friends kids though, both girls are “bitches” and the boys are more laid back. Two of them play football, but they are soft and like video games and don’t converse with girls much.
      The girls are loud, forward and
      aggressive . How that relates
      to a DD or FLR relationship, only time will tell. I can tell you this
      much, I’m glad I grew up when I did and not in this generation.
      I wouldn’t want to be a teenager now a days.

    4. "I think DD, FLR, ect will disappear over the next few generations, now that spanking is a no no."

      It's hard to say. I've kind of given up on trying to discern a causal connection between exposure to spankings growing up and being interested in DD today. The guys here are all over the map in terms of their early experience. And, another possibility is that it's the current zeitgeist against spanking that will change.

      I have certainly thought from time to time that it's no wonder that Gen Z has been labeled the "sexless generation," when guys sitting on the couch playing video games is what the girls have to choose from. But, it also kind of seems to be what the Millennial and Gen Z women want. A few weeks ago, I was on some website and there just happened to be two articles one on top of the other, one showing Timothy Chalomet (who I find repulsively soft) and Jason Mamoa who is my idea of the modern "man's man." I commented to my adult daughter on the fact that I just can't understand anyone seeing Chalomet as a sex symbol, and she told me that his body type and demeanor are what she prefers. I totally don't get it. There is a scene in the movie the Intern in which Anne Hathaway is doing tequila shots with her team--a bunch of Millennial soft men--and she asks how in one generation it went from men like Jack Nicholson and Harrison Ford to . . . and looks around at her team of soft boys.

    5. To add to my first comment, it seems crystal clear to me that helicopter parenting, safe zones, trigger warnings, etc., are having the exact opposite of the intended effects. The two most sheltered generations in history now also have the highest rates of clinical depression, chronic anxiety, suicidal ideation, etc., and they literally feel physically threatened simply from hearing opinions they don't agree with. The more indulgent parents become, the more fragile the kids seem to get. For that reason, I don't see the current (over)--protective trend as necessarily irreversible. And, yes, I'm very well aware that I'm probably in the minority.

    6. It is very reversible-and the very kids most victimized by it are precisely the generation most likely to stop it. There are few social phenomena more predictable than that the emerging generation ( s) will rebel against many of the core beliefs and values of their parents. In the instant case, Gen Z and Alpha are coming up to bat and they are likely to knock that ball out of the park, They have ( and are) paid the price for it and will not want to impose that on their own children.

    7. T, indeed, as I say, "boss chicks", "bitches" or whatever are ten a penny these days. Unfortunately, a lot of women actually believe men find this attractive: I wonder if films like Pride and Prejudice (written by a woman who never married) played a role? As a simple comparison, many men are complaining about the large proportion of "boss chicks" these days, but, to my knowledge, men in the past didn't tend to complain about women being too submissive.

      Regarding FLRs, I would say women desiring this should be careful what they wish for. There are some ways in which "traditional masculinity" is done to excess, which profits nobody (except manufacturers and suppliers), say heavy drinking and smoking. However, there are aspects of "traditional masculinity" that I don't think people actually want to go, such as stoicism. It will be a sad day if we have a situation in future where you see regular TikTok videos of men in their cars bawling away (silly as it is when women do this). Many women initially appreciate having men they can control, but over time grow to dislike it. Also, boys without masculine influences in their lives who can't regulate their emotions don't tend to have good outcomes in life.

      To my mind, the best thing is for DD to "refine masculinity", rather than taking it away, a bit like say the boys' boarding schools of yesteryear. There were heavy punishments for infractions, but they encouraged masculinity, not always in a good way (e.g. hazing), but they did. Even the now-King Charles III was reported to be afraid of his governesses. To my mind, DD done best is DD that also enhances masculinity, but maintains the accountability into adulthood. A grown man should be able to take even more pain than a schoolboy and I think the best DD is focused on pain (which builds men up), rather than humiliation (which knocks them down).

      Dan, we shall see what happens. One thing I have noticed is that the man's face is often not seen in F/M spanking videos. I wonder if the modern tendency for doing things in public means that the perceived shame of receiving an F/M spanking in a publicly viewable area will get less over time?

      Regarding Jason Momoa, it's hard to say if he is a modern man's man, given his age, but I also note that his wife recently divorced him. All sorts of possible reasons why, but while being a man's man results in being able to attract women, it doesn't always result in being able to retain them.

      But maybe this is where DD would help? It might develop the traits that enable keeping as well as attracting women.

      As for Anne Hathaway, many women criticise what they have created. Feminism and #metoo has resulted in that sort of man being common.

      Agreed on modern mental illnesses among children. Greta Thunberg is the most widely visible example of an over-indulged and spoilt person with a catalogue of problems resulting. I think Sweden was the first nation to ban physical parental discipline on children, but current levels of mental illness in Swedish children suggest it hasn't helped.

      Alan, we shall see, but I have a feeling things will get a lot worse before they get better!


    8. J,

      I like your viewpoint on the use of pain vs humiliation. It is also interesting hearing how you view the use of DD as an equivalent to a strict authority figure who helps correct errant ways making you a better man rather than DD being a way in which you can lean into a submissive side and share that with your wife.
      I gather from your post above that you believe in the roles of masculine/feminine and embracing those traits. Feel free to let me know if that is not the case. But if so, why then do you believe your wife is qualified to discipline you and exercise that power. In most communities where people hold to the belief system of masculine/feminine roles they would not encourage a dynamic such as DD for they believe that the man is the leader of the house and the woman should submit to him etc
      Would your wife spanking you not be stepping outside of that philosophy?

    9. J,
      I forgot it shows as Anonymous!
      -Miss E

    10. Miss E, do you mean why my wife rather than someone else?


    11. No, I mean why a female. For example, the community I grew up in was so strict in their beliefs regarding gender roles and appropriate behavior that some moms would not even spank their sons because they didnt want them to grow up used to being under a womans discipline. Only another man could punish them.

      Now I know this is a bit extreme, but similarly, in relationships where people tend to adhere to these gender based beliefs, I very rarely see any sort of DD or even hint of potential DD or FLR there. At least not f/m.

    12. Miss E, what type of community did you grow up in exactly?

      I admit, the idea of women not disciplining sons sounds bizarre, because when they are children, they are at an age where they are receiving instruction: the part about women not teaching or having authority over men only comes in when they reach adulthood. Until then, both men and women can give instruction. Also, I don't expect to be around forever to discipline them, so their mother not being able to discipline them after I am gone would be a very unhelpful situation!

      However, we see what we do as providing internal accountability for me, even if I take the lead. Also, even when it isn't for a direct infraction, it is a useful outlet for her irritations. I take the view that as the leader, the husband should take the initiative in restoring harmony when there has been bad blood. A husband's backside is a padded spot where the wife can safely express what is bothering her, and then the matter can be laid to rest. Just as a husband shouldn't have to think twice about taking pain to protect his wife, neither should he have to think twice about taking pain to restore marital harmony: this comes with leadership.

      It also provides good balance. When you are the leader, it is good to be reminded of the need to pay attention to what is going on with those you are leading.

      The wife is best-placed to provide this accountability, given her proximity. Also, since the backside is an erogenous zone, it is probably more acceptable among conservative-minded communities for the wife to be providing this accountability!

      What are your thoughts on the points above?


    13. I had not heard of this before, where a mother chooses not to discipline her own child because he's a boy and might grow up subservient to women. But it's a wide world out there, and I don't get around enough.

      Ideas and ideals of traditional masculine/feminine characteristics and roles are certainly real and, in my "research," I find it common that males who are into F/m are attracted to the feminization aspect. Getting spanked is a form of emasculation. It is humiliating for a man to be put in the position of a "girl". Feelings of humility are a desire much like the physical pain.

      I grew up with these gender based beliefs, and I do feel that being spanked is far more humiliating for a male. Women tend to feel feminine, and therefore attractive, under a man's control. This may be changing over time, as girls are no longer seen as the "weaker sex." I've seen where a strong woman in a position of power is looking for someone to temporarily take her autonomy away, with spanking as the primary expression of the power exchange.

    14. Brett,

      I wouldn't say I view DD as feminisation. I have this perception (which is probably more than a little grounded in reality) of boys being more likely to receive physical punishments than girls. Also, many jurisdictions only use corporal punishment on adult males. This is partly why I view it as enhancing my masculinity if I receive very hard spankings.

      I suppose there may also be some element of power exchange with me as well. I am, at some level, giving my wife power to give me this correction and this brings a great feeling with it, though as Dan has already acknowledged, not all men seeking DD are "alpha males".


    15. J, yes, it's a personal thing, and an attraction to spanking comes in a pretty wide variety of forms. Some people enjoy spanking simply as physical sensation, with none of the psychological stuff that is discussed so frequently here and elsewhere. The feminization aspect is common in BDSM, and the same or similar desires show up in DD relationships. It's also true that some DD practitioners claim that there is nothing sexual about it for them, they don't enjoy it, that it is merely a pragmatic system for marriage or self-improvement.

      Another thing to consider is that urges and drives don't necessarily have anything to do with the type of person who has that desire. A power exchange relationship, however perverse, can be pleasure for anyone. It may be more difficult for an alpha to submit to their desire, but we don't choose what turns us on.

    16. "I have this perception (which is probably more than a little grounded in reality) of boys being more likely to receive physical punishments than girls. Also, many jurisdictions only use corporal punishment on adult males."

      This has always been the reality for me. Boys got way more corporal punishment at school, and judicial around the world also tends to favor males. In domestic settings, I'm not sure who gets spanked more, but both genders get it. I'm not sure I can explain why it feels emasculating to be spanked, but it does. Part of it is how the spanking is administered, and that it is a domestic environment rather than an institutional one. Part of it is that females in positions of submission are seen as women, males are seen as weak. I didn't make those rules, but I was raised in an environment that believed in them.

    17. Brett and J,

      I enjoyed reading both of your viewpoints. One of the key things about bdsm, flr, dd etc that always drew my attention is the fact that absolutely any action can be used or viewed completely differently based on that relationship’s psychological lens. Spanking can be seen as empowering or humiliating depending on the two people in that dynamic.

      I love that this very niche community can all live similar lifestyles and yet identify or rationalize it completely differently.

      Initially, when I first began researching and learning more about the dominant side of myself many years ago I thought I had to find a guidebook that showed me what to do, what rules to have, what punishments are best to use etc.
      Didnt take me long to realize that everyone had a different approach and advice that fit their particular situation. I believe in power exchange relationships the psychological needs of the individual people and their energies are what deem a successful lifestyle, identity, and healthy actions.

    18. Boys were punished way more than girls in school. I only came across a few girls that were paddled. One female teacher and the school secretary were responsible for administering punishment. I do feel taken down a peg when my wife spanks. I’m much more humbled. She says it won’t take long before I act up again.

    Miss E wrote about re-experiencing crying from spanking: “ …If this is something that you want to achieve with your wife, what would be the best way for her to lead you in this?”
    This question has been raised often enough to suppose it comes up in many F/m relationships. Crying seems very idiosyncratic; some cry readily under punishment, while others never cry. Realistically, I think at least some may never cry during a spanking. It can be challenging for a man in our culture to reach that point of vulnerability, no matter how much he consciously may want to do so

    But for the man who will cry when spanked, there seem to be three conditions that must exist beyond his prior willingness or desire to reach that point of surrender.
    1. He must feel some real guilt or shame for the behavior that earned the spanking. It must be real, and in my case, at least that has meant a severe scolding in a situation where she has at least partially begun the punishment (brisk hand spanking---, pants pulled down –put in the corner, etc.) That scolding, together with real shame or embarrassment, puts me in a frame of mind to accept the spanking, and it is necessary to let go and cry during it.
    2. The disciplinarian should clarify that she expects tears, wants to see them, and considers them evidence that the spanking worked. This early communication in our relationship was crucial. I don’t think I would have ever cried if she had not emphasized her expectation that tears should happen. This is very tied up with the standard “tough masculinity image most males carry into adulthood. It sounds as crazy as it is, but instead of crying when we are afraid, we are scared to cry. A little guilt, a lot of scolding, and strong permission/encouragement to cry help overcome that.
    3. Finally, he must come to feel on some level that the spanking will never end, which can lead him to let go and probably cry. A man who doesn’t cry during a serious spanking is probably “holding on” but if faced with the belief (an illusion but very real at the time) that the spanking is going to go on forever, he may be able to let go and cry—something he both wants and needs. The spanking that will produce this is not necessarily the hardest spanking you ever gave him. In fact, Hard and fast spanking can be practical behavioral tools, but they probably make a man hold on more. Instead of bringing on tears, extend the spanking for 20 minutes or even longer. Build up the severity slowly. Continue scolding throughout the spanking, and use short breaks or corner items to help create a setting in which he believes it won’t stop until he actually surrenders to you.
    Others on this blog have recounted their route to tears and maybe they will add to what I have written.


    1. Thank you for the tips Alan! I plan on trying some of these soon with my husband. We’ve already begun working with slow, steady build up spankings as they seem to ease him into a more submissive headspace with less anxiety and a much higher pain tolerance/surrender. But I want to eventually have all of him in that way.

    2. Alan,

      I was just reading through the user stories and came across your story from 2015 about how you used to stop spankings when you thought you couldnt take any more but then realized one day that you had to totally submit to her authority and never resisted again. Can Ia sk what changed for you in that moment with your ex?
      And were you ever tempted to stop a spanking with your wife? If you did so now how would she handle that?
      Because ultimately men are physically stronger/bigger than their wives so you cant “force” them to accept a spanking and truthfully I wouldnt want to “force” anyone anyway as the submission comes in giving your control to someone.

    3. Welcome Miss E! Nice to have a female contributor. You asked about maintenance spankings earlier in this post. I get several maintenance spankings a week, which really works well for us. Many on this site don't use them because they only want to be punished for a specific reason. If I screw up, I too want to be punished soon after, but maintenance spankings also assure me that I will be reminded often about my role in the relationship, and they keep spanking on the front burner. Even if I don't break any rules, I will still be consistently reminded that she is paying attention and noticing when I need to be reined in. R.e. getting your husband to cry from a spanking, Alan had some good advice. While I have been encouraged to cry during a spanking, so far I haven't been able to get there. I think it's because we never got to the 3rd suggestion Alan made, which is a very long spanking with lots of scolding and some corner time in between the spankings. It's great that you plan to get your husband to completely surrender to you in that way. Please keep us informed about how it's going.

    4. Miss E wrote: “… realized one day that you had to totally submit to her authority and never resisted again. …what changed for you at that moment with your ex? And were you ever tempted to stop a spanking with your wife? …how would she handle that?

      These are excellent questions.
      In all honesty, I am not sure what allowed me to totally submit to her (my former GF’s) authority and take the spanking when so badly I wanted to stop it. Some of it was a cumulative embarrassment from disappointing her before, but part also was the powerful thought at the moment of panic that I needed it (the spanking) and richly deserved it. Those thoughts took me through to the magical point when the surrender opens up a vista of joy and fulfillment that there is no desire to do anything but submit to her. Sometimes, I actually raise my bum to her swinging brush or paddle when that moment is reached. Also, as I mention briefly below, spanking him in the OTK position may preclude any defiance

      “Were you ever tempted to stop a spanking with your wife? …how would she handle that?”
      No, I have never resisted a spanking from her once it has begun (she does allow limited protests before I am spanked). With her, the expectations were very clear from the beginning, and also, importantly, the training from my previous relationship was still very strong. I can’t be sure how she would handle it if I did resist. It is not something I ever want to find out. My former GF eventually handled it very effectively. When I stopped it and left position, I would move somewhere in the room, chiefly to get my very warm ass as far from the paddle as possible -and really to buy time before she continued the spanking. She just followed me, grabbed my arm, and gently but firmly ordered me to get back in position. When I did, she would continue the spanking. As I think about it, this technique may have been one reason I learned to totally submit to a spanking. Even when I tried to stop it, I just delayed the coming punishment. So, being firm when he tries to stop it seems important.

      One addition that came up when I was thinking about all this. As far as I remember, I never resisted a spanking-administered OTK, including on a couch. I have not reflected on this before. I know OTK, for me, is psychologically very powerful and physically puts a husband in a very controlled position. But it is striking that once put in that position, I have never resisted or defied my disciplinarian


    5. "Because ultimately men are physically stronger/bigger than their wives so you cant “force” them to accept a spanking and truthfully I wouldnt want to “force” anyone anyway as the submission comes in giving your control to someone."

      One can always fight a spanking, and it's true even in non-consensual situations that the one being punished just accepts their punishment. We're not physically overcome and tied up so we can't get away. Aside from possible forms of coercion she could use, there must be a psychological factor that makes resisting a spanking more painful or risky than submitting to one. If we respect our spouse and truly want to believe she has the authority, we must not undermine the regime we've yearned for, and also not accepting the spanking is shame and guilt we don't want to live with.

    6. Norton,
      If your wife gives you maintenance spankings regularly, does she also give you frequent rewards?
      Im worried if too much is centered solely on punishing my husband or reminding him of his place and what happens if he disobeys, then he will begin to feel disheartened or under appreciated. Have you ever felt as if being spanked for punishment along with maintenance spankings were unfair?

      Also, has anyone here ever felt as if DD in and of itself was “unfair”?
      There have been a couple times when my husband was very upset over what he deemed at the time an unfair spanking and he accused me of abusing my power and that this dynamic was not fair because who held me accountable when I made a mistake or did something wrong. He then alluded to it being significantly easier being the domme/spanker in the relationship and how difficult it was to be him. Now granted, this has only happened three or four times but it stuck with me. And again, as I stated previously, because I initiated this dynamic with him I cant just lean back on the knowledge that he was only angry but had asked me for this relationship.
      He has affirmed to me many times that he wants this relationship, has even come up with punishable offenses and ideas himself, but sometimes the things people say in anger can be a subconscious truth.
      So Im curious if any of you have ever dealt with feelings of it being unfair.

    7. Miss E: The questions you raise are wide-ranging and multifaceted.
      Regarding "unfairness," this could mean either "unfairness of a particular decision/punishment" or "unfairness of a DD relationship."
      There have been many discussions here in the forum about occurrences of punishments that wives impose that a husband feels is "unfair" or "unjust." In a great many such many such cases, the husband concludes, after having his ego partly deflated and his mind opened by application of appropriate discipline, that the wife's point of view has validity, and in fact is basically "sound and correct!"
      Nevertheless, there will still be situations where the husband may feel or believe a wife is making a fundamental mistake of some type. In my own relationship, my wife tries to always make a point of "recounting the facts" underlying her decision; my wife tries to always ask me if I know of any other "facts" of which she is unaware; asks if there are any "mitigating circumstances." Only then does she render final judgment.
      Even then, there will still be occasions when I suspect that some "internal emotional state" / "stressor" in influencing her judgment and decision. I myself, in these situations, have come to accept that the overall benefits of a well-working DD-relationship greatly outweigh a wayward thrashing. This included occasions where my wife simply needs a (consciously unrecognized) "stress release." If my accepting a thrashing assists her to release pent-up energy and negative emotions, arising from outside circumstances and/or "third parties," I look upon it as an act of love. (There is a reason the term "sacrificial love" has existed for so many thousands of years.)
      The other type of "unfairness" that (apparently) your husband raised is "who holds you [the disciplinary wife] responsible" when she breaks rules, acts rude, show disrespect, neglect her own duties in the relationship. No one is perfect.

      (cont. . .)

    8. (. . . cont.)

      From my limited observations, it appears very difficult to establish a good, working, DD-relationship unless the wife has "at least comparable" and preferably "superior" levels of self-discipline, good sense and moral authority. But again, even when a wife excels and exceeds her husband in most areas with such abilities, mistakes will happen; transgressions will occur.

      I think the wife has to be self-aware, and intellectually honest, enough, to recognize most of these personal errors, and self-correct. I believe my own wife does very well at this. She rarely makes mistakes or displays lack of personal discipline. When she does, she tries to always (1) apologize to me for her lapse, and (2) perform some type of "personal penance." She believes that it is not sufficient to simply correct the mistake and work to prevent future recurrences, but it is also necessary to acknowledge the harm she has potentially caused to me / the relationship / DD-dynamic, and pay a penalty of some sort; to ensure some type of "retributive justice."

      You might discuss with your husband some of these challenges you will BOTH face, and mutually devise systems for administering DD that helps ensure "perceived fairness" and "minimal mistakes", as well as how you, yourself, will openly approach your own transgressions. These discussions might also be a good time to work-out how a husband might politely and respectfully bring to a wife's attention his own observations of possible transgressions by that wife.

      Anyway, the above is my personal perspective, and my "condensation" of much of what other husbands here in the forum have recounted over the years. I hope it forms a good starting point for continued discussions with your husband.

      (cont. . .)

    9. (. . . cont.)

      [Dan: A couple of these matters might form a basis for future weekly discussions -- "sacrificial love," by husbands (and by wives meeting husbands' DD-needs); "retributive justice", wherein punishment serves multiple purposes, including relieving a husband of the guilt from causing hi wife emotional pain/injury, as well as being a method for the wife to directly relieve her own pain through physical "retribution."]

    10. The most fulfilling part of the relationship to me would be that my wife initiated the DD system. Me asking for discipline does not check the box. However, considering that life does not always present ideal circumstances, there must be some negotiated rules and limits. If we're not compatible, sharing some reasonable level of opinion about what is fair and unfair then, ultimately, it would fail. But if someone thinks it's easier to be the disciplinarian, they must either have not experienced that responsibility, or had no difficulty abusing it.

    11. Hi Mss E. R.e. my regular maintenance spankings and your question "does she ever give you rewards?" My answer is yes - because I have asked her to spank me, the fact that she does is my reward. I accept that things go better when I am spanked hard and often, and deeply appreciate her willingness to be so consistent. Sometimes it leads to great sex and intimacy. She also has given me numerous punishment spankings and I deserved every one of them. There have been times when I really didn't want to be spanked, but she insisted on spanking me anyway. Many of us would agree when that happens, it demonstrates that she has fully embraced her authority, which is something most of us really want. My life has greatly improved because of her willingness to provide real DD, as I have mentioned here many times. The most important results have been my reduced drinking, and slowing down when driving. Because you initiated DD and spanking to your husband, he may not be quite so grateful as a lifelong spanko like me would be. Most of us have had to go through the embarrassing process of needing to ask our wives or girlfriends to discipline us, and it is very rare to find a woman strong enough and confident enough to demand having that authority. It speaks well of you.

    12. Donn,
      I appreciate your perspective and advice regarding fairness. I plan to discuss it one night with my husband and think you gave a great outline for me to work from.

      I agree, I think any sort of leadership position is often overlooked or thought of as easier until you hold the position yourself.

      Norton, I appreciate the compliment. I plan on discussing the idea of maintenance spankings with him as well. I may have mentioned earlier but though we are still practicing dd, we are in the process of “rebuilding” our flr. Previously, as I knew more on the subject than him, I did most of the work, however, because of my fears that he is “being forced” or “feels obligated” somehow, we are taking whats worked these past four years, doing individual research, adding in some new rules, expectations, etc and working with a kink friendly therapist. So you all have given me some great topics and advice to discuss.

    13. Donn,

      Agreed with what you said, particularly regarding sacrificial love: men should be willing to take it, even if only for the reasons you gave. I would definitely support this being a topic for a future week, as you proposed.


  6. When I met my wife I could see almost immediately that she was intelligent and could be commanding maybe even bitchy but while I wanted to be in charge I also recognized the need for someone to rescue me from the craziness of my life. I insisted on being in charge but listened to her when I thought I needed too. The issue was when I believed she was wrong or unreasonable I would argue with her this just caused issues. Usually in the long run I made the wrong decision that cost us money and me the respect I wanted. In many areas my knowledge exceeds hers but leadership is not just about knowledge it's often more about instinct. My wife has the best instinct of anybody I know. She is rarely wrong when she listens to her instincts. Her inability to trust me and my inability to take responsibility is what eventually led to our WLM. I recognized my failing as a husband and asked her to take over and to punish me when she saw fit because I came to trust her instincts. Does she make mistakes? Sure, but far less than I was making and her ability to to learn from her mistakes surpassed mine in leaps and bounds. The ability to to learn is grounded in acceptance of not allways knowing everything. I can't speak for all men but I tend to be a know it all. The thing I'm most often spanked for is arguing with her
    It was habitual and keeps us from being happy so I gladly accept discipline from her when she feels it necessary. I would never stop a spanking from her because I trust her. I realize that may seem unrealistic given that I sometimes think I'm right and she is wrong. DD shouldn't be about who is right or wrong it's more about respect. I respect her maternal instincts to protect our marriage and manage our lives.

    1. "In many areas my knowledge exceeds hers but leadership is not just about knowledge it's often more about instinct. My wife has the best instinct of anybody I know."

      It's a great point and applies in my marriage as well, though in our case I would replace "instinct" with "temperament." I have a lot more "book" knowledge than my wife and, in some ways, I'm the more analytical thinker. But, her temperament is more balanced and solid, while my temper and hardheadedness can lead to bad results. I can probably think my way out of a problem as well or better than she can, but her temperament advantages mean she creates fewer problems in the first place and is too often saddled with ones I've created.

  7. My wife has been spanking me for punishment for the last few years. Although she sees the value of strict limits and consequences, she has had some real difficulties finding her 'inner bitch" and has been inconsistent in following through. She has often backed down when faced wit resistance from me (when I felt that punishment wan't deserved). We have been talking about a possible alternative that will make a DD relationship work better. That would involve finding another couple who are spankers, that she could bring me to for discipline. While she would have the decision over what behaviour would prompt a visit, she wouldn't need to "psych herself up" to deliver a strong punishment - the other couple would be properly severe. We have been looking in our area; they would have to be close enough for fairly immediate response. For me, the idea of someone else knowing - and delivering a spanking - is quite scary/embarrassing, especially if there is the possibility of getting it from a ma
    le as well as from a female.

    1. Hi "AnonymousApril 4, 2024 at 8:45 AM":

      Could you identify yourself to other members with a "pseudonym" or "pair of initials"?

      Such a "handle" makes it much easier to comment on your posts, and generally engage in conversation here in the forum.

      -- DD

    2. I'll identify myself as Michael W. from now on

    3. It sounds like a great plan. I'll be interested to hear whether you are able to find a couple willing to participate.

  8. IMHO, Alan hit the nail on the head with his three conditions. Those provide conditions for me under which I MAY come to tears though not always. Interested folks should try them, and that topic is probably worth further discussion on this website. Graham

    1. I completely sustain Alan's points. The one time my wife spanked me to tears all of those points were met. Mike

  9. I agree Graham. I appreciate the tips Alan, in fact I screenshotted them to save for use soon.
    Im sure my husband will be apprciative

  10. Replies
    1. Miss E

      To answer some of your earlier questions directed toward me. My wife and I were/are into some BDSM. She is dom. When she introduced spanking at first it was of a sexual nature. I am totally alpha male in all aspects of daily life. Or marriage is a democracy and we work together. Now when I get maintenance spankings they not fo "no reason". She is clear that I haven't done all I should or am exhibiting signs that I may be going the wrong way emotionally. As for discipline vs humiliation, being told to strip, bend over the bed or chair or what ever, exposing myself in a totally helpless fashion and taking discipline is pretty humiliating IMHO. She has many implements to choose from and selects the one that will inflict the type and amount of pain she thinks it's appropriate. Also something I would like to see discussed here in the future, my "spankings" are not confined to my buttocks. If she is using a flogger I am going to get strikes across my back and sides. A paddle or strap will also be used on my thighs as well as my buttocks. In almost every case at least one or more blows will be directed at my testicles. So yes I take my discipline seriously and try to behave. Most of all I know that she is doing it because she loves me and wants me to be the person I want to be.

    2. Miss E

      I tried to answer you earlier but my post went into the great beyond it would seem. To try and answer your questions. My wife and i were/are into some BDSM. She is dom and I am sub, but outside of that dynamic I am fully Alpha male. Our marriage is a democracy in all ways except DD. She introduced spanking into our relationship and a sexual thing at first but she guided it into DD.

      As for maintenance discipline, it is not for "no reason". I always know that it is because I am not doing what she told me to do and I will get daily DD until I do, or my attitude is moving off in a bad or depressed direction. She is very clear why it is happening. I do not think it subtracts from other discipline at all.

      Discipline vs humiliation is one in the same to me. If I am told to strip bend over the bed, or chair, or somewhere else and spread my legs and submit to discipline from her, that is pretty humiliating IMHO. That is just part of the package to me.

      My wife has an array of discipline implements from which to choose. She selects the one that will inflict the type and level of pain that she thinks is appropriate at the time. One thing I would like to see discussed here at some time is that my discipline is not confined to my buttocks. If she is using a flogger I will get stripes across my back and with a paddle my upper thighs as well. With a strap then everywhere is likely. Also at least once per session if not more, she will hit my testicles with her chosen implement. The worse I have been the more of those she is likely to administer. Don't know if that happens with anyone else here.

      I grew up with no discipline at home and pretty much did what I wanted. Until we were married and started DD at home, I had really never had anyone in my life impose discipline on me in a physical way. It is something that I needed and would have benefited from much earlier in life.

      Let me know if you have other questions or if I missed one.

    3. Antonio,
      I appreciate you answering.
      Did you ever resent your wife for spanking you too frequently? Or make you feel as if you couldnt do anything right?
      I have really been leaning lately towards the idea of either maintenance spankings or “quasi” maintenance spankings when he has a recurring disobedience or attitude. But my husband also was not the one who initiated so I think he begins to feel overwhelmed when hes spanked very frequently, and feels as if nothing he does is right, hes not good enough, etc
      That being said however, a common issue that Ive seen mentioned on this blog as well is both of our struggles with consistency. Always seems as if one minute we have a great routine going and then the next life has thrown some crazy curve ball thats more important or immediate.
      I wonder if maintenance spankings wouldnt help keep both of us on track.

    4. Miss E., consistency will be your biggest issues in DD. My wife is inconsistent in her discipline. Yesterday, I was severely spanked for my attitude about an issue we had discussed.
      I was upset at the time about an issue we were having and did not feel as though I deserved discipline. I have never declined my wife’s authority to bend over the bed and never will. My theory is this, the times I deserved a thrashing and my wife failed to deliver, when I’m unfairly punished, she’s made up for the one missed. As far as maintenance spankings go, I think my wife would be overwhelmed delivering one at a set time and date. Life gets busy. As it worked out this month. I’ve been spanked once a week for the last month anyway. I think not to overwhelm your husband, you should give him clear and concise rules to follow. If he fails to follow through, you have no choice but to punish him. My wife has a short list of rules that I follow anyway. Most of the time, I am punished for my negative attitude and general moodiness. If I snap at her or raise my voice, she will stop look at me and say, “raise your voice again, and see what happens”. I use to raise my voice a lot at the beginning of our relationship. After some
      serious blistering, I’ve learned not to do that anymore. Your husband will get your points after a while. The easy way or the painful way. Either way, for me it’s been a lesson learned. My wife has made me a better man. I’m sure you will make him a better man as well.

    5. Consistency can mean two very different things. One is conformity to apply reasonable and fair consequences, and one is regularity to fulfill a persistent need or desire. I think maintenance spankings could be a good way to satisfy the latter.

      With the former, misbehavior or failure consistently results in punishment, and spanking is never needed otherwise. I have only experience with this, a set of conditions that makes the most sense to me. The desire for the conditions surrounding a disciplinary relationship is persistent, but no matter how long between spankings, they are not required unless the situation calls for it.

  11. Does the inconsistency ever tempt you to disregard the rules T? Or do you still hold yourself accountable regardless?

    So far, we have always had a relationship much like the first dynamic you mentioned. I only spank him when he has earned a punishment. Though I am going to discuss the idea of maintenance spankings with him and see how he feels.

    If your wife is open to it, Id love to talk to her. Im always interested in meeting other females who live this lifestyle and have more experience than me. Especially as she also initiated your dynamic.

    1. Miss E,,
      The answer would be no. I dont want to disappoint my wife. I often hold myself accountable for my actions. My wife almost has me conformed to a certain standard. I know what needs to be done daily. Brett, I’m not sure about your analogy on consistency. To me consistency would be, my attitude or mood sucks, and everytime my wife punishes me. She doesn’t hesitate. As far as fulfilling a desire, that is another topic that can be debated ad nauseam. For me, I need consequences for my actions.

    2. Miss E,
      If my wife was an enthusiastic disciplinarian who didn't need my encouragement, my first priority, within reason, would be to satisfy her desires. I would be grateful that she is into DD, and if maintenance spanking is what she wants, then I would do my best to oblige her. However, in a relationship that matches what spanking means to me, it would follow the conventional definition of punishment.

      It sounds like what you want from your wife is consistent punishment, which is different than "maintenance," as we're using the term here.

      I wasn't attempting to offer an analogy, nor was I engaging in a debate. I'm just saying that maintenance is different than punishment, and that matters to me. A common goal of parenting is to be consistent, and that doesn't mean routine "punishments" regardless of behavior. If the goal is to fulfill a desire for spanking, not conventional punishment, consistency means regularity. That's not a value judgment, just a statement of fact.

      There are other rationales for maintenance. -- punishment for unspecified crimes that can't be identified but must have happened because we probably did something wrong somewhere, or to remind us to behave and who is in charge, or for misbehavior that hasn't occurred yet are great excuses to spank and still think of as disciplinary. It's also possible to incorporate both maintenance and punishment in one relationship. Nothing wrong with any of that, it's just not my kink.

    3. Miss E,

      How do you personally feel about maintenance spankings?


    4. The anonymous entry above makes sense to me, and pretty well describes how we define maintenance spanking. "If the goal is to fulfill a desire for spanking, not conventional punishment, consistency means regularity." That describes me now, but it took years of being punished for me to change my behavior. The consistency of the maintenance spankings seems to calm me down enough that I seldom do things that would earn me a punishment spanking any more. Maintenance spankings also serve as a consistent reminder of her authority, and her willingness to punish me when I cross a boundary. For me, spanking is also intertwined with sex. Her consistency with spanking makes me feel loved and cared for. Lastly, it insures we will have real intimacy, and we set aside time to allow it to happen.

    5. Norton, what you have sounds like a great relationship. The meaning of the words "maintenance" and "punishment" is relatively trivial, but the topic seems to come up regularly wherever disciplinary spanking is discussed. I'm always curious why a maintenance spanking is not considered a reward rather than a punishment. It happens because there is no actual crime to punish. The need for spanking is fulfilled. It makes people feel loved and cared for. It often enhances the sexual relationship between partners. I think discipline does not have to rely on punishment, and maintenance that improves behavior is evidence of that.


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