Saturday, September 10, 2022

The Club - Meeting 410 - Changes, Openness, Bitchiness, etc.

Have you ever gotten the feeling that you aren't completely embarassed yet, but you glimpse tomorrow's embarrassment? - Tom Cruise


Hello all. Welcome back to The Disciplinary Couple’s Club.  Our weekly gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, a Domestic Discipline relationship.  I hope you all had a great week.

 

It’s been an interesting few weeks for us.  Anne retired a couple of months ago.  We’d talked a lot about whether that would change the disciplinary aspects of our relationship.  We both agreed it should but I admit I had my doubts about whether it actually would.  I thought that things would change profoundly when we became empty-nesters, but they really didn’t. I wondered whether this latest life event would similarly prove to be a non-event where DD is concerned.

 

Somewhat surprisingly, things really do seem to be changing in ways that are probably great for our relationship and her empowerment but not so great for my butt.

 

First, I do seem to be getting spanked way more often.  In past years, there have been more than a few times I’ve wondered what basis I had for writing semi-authoritatively about Domestic Discipline when sometimes months would go by without any real disciplinary action.  Since Anne’s retirement, however, it’s become more like weekly, and sometimes more than once a week.

 

Second, she’s spanking with more immediacy, no longer letting days go by between the offense and the punishment.  That may explain in part the increased frequency since, as we’ve discussed here many times, when too much time goes by after an offense it becomes less likely it will be punished at all.

 

 

Third, she seems to be gravitating toward being much less shy about her status and that she spanks me.  A couple of years ago, I did a post here about being spanked in front of windows.  At the time, I hadn’t experienced a spanking in front of a window with the shades up.  That changed a couple of weeks ago.  In accordance with her new commitment to immediacy, Anne decided to give me a spanking in the middle of the day, which isn’t typical for us.  We went up to our bedroom, and the shades were up.  I asked her if she’d like me to close them. I’m not sure why I asked the question instead of just closing them, but I did.  Surprisingly, without really skipping a beat, she said “No, leave them open.”

 

It wasn’t a one-time thing. A few days later, I got another spanking.  This time the window shades were closed when we went into the bedroom, and Anne walked over and opened them.

 

How did this new openness make me feel?  Maybe not quite as vulnerable or embarrassed as I once thought it might.  I think the fact that it was during the day probably makes it less likely that the people in the house immediately behind us (the only house on our block with a possible view into our bedroom) could see anything.  Glare on the glass makes it harder to see inside during the day, and the odds of them being out or at work were higher. 

 

 

I later asked Anne about the new openness, and she quipped, “It’s just the neighbors.  Who cares if they know?”

 

That got me thinking things through a bit more, and I thought of one situation that actually would have made me feel pretty vulnerable.  I don’t know our current rear neighbors very well, but they seem like nice people. I did not feel that way, however, about their predecessors.  I had “words” with the wife a couple of times about some things regarding our respective dogs.  She initiated those words and, frankly, I thought she was kind of a bitch.  Had Anne’s timing for this new openness been different, I definitely would have felt much more embarrassed if there had been any chance those former neighbors would have seen a spanking in progress, because I have no doubt the wife would have been joyful at seeing me humiliated and might have even brought it up.

 

Speaking of bitchiness, a couple of our commenters last week mentioned that their spouses enjoy either spanking them or being in charge.

 

T said: “My wife enjoys spanking me and for her it’s a turn on.”

 

I commented that it was a shame that women seem to have more trouble embracing their power, leading Cynthia Ellen to observe, “My husband has no problem getting off on control. He loves it! He just doesn't like hurting me so he won't spank hard. I guess maybe it's still easier for men to get aroused by control in our culture.”

 


 

I do see it as problematic that Disciplinary Wives probably are subject to a double standard.  We disciplined husbands often like it when the step up and take charge, but the broader culture doesn’t always seem okay with that.  To some extent, it’s probably not a gender thing.  We’ve created a society in which everyone goes to great lengths to express their devotion to egalitarianism, even if the reality is a lot different.  We are so into equality and suspicious of power that it’s uncomfortable to even suggest that getting off on exercising power might be okay in some contexts.

 

It's a shame, because I think a Domestic Discipline or FLR relationship probably is more likely to work and become core to the dynamic if the wife isn’t constantly concerned that she might be seen as “bitchy” for taking control.  Ironically, while I think women do worry their men may balk if they really do exercise strong control, when I used to run polls here asking what men want “more” of in their DD relationships, the highest number of votes invariably went to things like “more sternness in communications” and being “more openly dominant.”

 


 

Until the recent “open window” incidents, Anne hadn’t shown any real inclination to be more open about her authority or this aspect of our relationship. Yet, she is candid with me that she does, in fact, get off on exercising power.  It’s not so much about the spanking.  It’s about exercising the authority that leads to one.  She says she likes ordering me to go upstairs and get ready and watching me do it.  She likes instructing me to get over her knee or whatever position she’s decided to spank me in.

 

She also clearly gets off on “service domination,” i.e. ordering me to do things around the house or to serve her.  She says she loves it when it’s plain from the look on my face that I so want to tell her to fuck off (she knows how much I hate service domination and being ordered around), yet I comply.  She would plainly be much less into it if I were more into it.  

 


I know the first time Anne carries through with chastising me in public or referring openly to her intention to spank me, I will almost certainly be extremely embarrassed.  Had you asked me a year ago, I would have said it was very unlikely she’d ever take the step of referring openly to her authority and to how she uses it on my naked, upturned butt.  I thought there was some chance she might tell one or more of our kids, but I thought it was highly unlikely the openness would extend to anything more public.  Now, however, I’m much less sure of that.

 

I’m sure when it happens I will absolutely hate it in the moment. But, I also think it’s highly likely that I will find it very arousing in retrospect.  Part of me can’t help but hope she becomes more comfortable over time with openly demonstrating, and reveling in, her own power.  In that light, I found a couple of old comments from real Disciplinary Wives about embracing their “bitchiness.”

 

Danielle: Once I took up the hairbrush, I regretted not having done it when he first asked me. He became an attentive husband, and I discovered I liked being in charge. I like the way I can instantly put him in place with a spanking or just a threat of a spanking if he starts to get argumentative or moody. I think I may always have had an inner bitch that has now been freed. I like having the final say, I like being obeyed, and I like being able to express myself bluntly, either with the hairbrush or a verbal dressing down, when I am dissatisfied. Nobody except my closest friend knows I spank Wayne, but I no longer hide my bossiness from family and friends. I like that people can see I’m the boss.

 

Holly: I think we are all "bitches" to our husbands when the rubber hits the road (so to speak) I reconciled myself to this long ago. The amusing thing is that growing up I thought my mother was a bitch for spanking too often and severely. Now I find although I probably do not spank as often as she did, I certainly spank harder. If a wife wants results she does need to be a bitch sometimes (As Tina Fey said " Bitches get stuff done") I am not saying that being a bitch is necessary to be a good disciplinarian. But sometimes being a bitch is just what is needed and don't be intimidated by the fact that someone (like your husband) might think you are a bitch once in a while.

 

Great advice.

 

I don’t have a concrete topic related to any of this, so just let me know your thoughts and reactions to any of it.

138 comments:

  1. Sounds like Anne's next step may be to open the window so the neighbours can hear.
    Then she can apologize to them for making too much noise when she spanks you!
    I agree with you that seeing my wife take charge is uncomfortable in the moment but the experience on reflection is very erotic.

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    1. "Then she can apologize to them for making too much noise when she spanks you!" - Hahaha. I love it! In case they don't see or hear the spanking, this would certainly be a great way to tell them about it!

      -ZM

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  2. Great topic Dan. When we were first married we rented a small house that was in a suburban setting. It was similar to your situation, as neighbors might have been able to see in, but during the daytime it wasn't really very likely. Even so, Beth would lower the blinds when she spanked me. What concerned me more was that she often left the window open and I have to imagine that neighbors could hear what was happening. To me, there is no more distinctive sound than a hand or hairbrush in contact with bare skin. I would remind Beth of this and she would usually shut the window, but if she had already started spanking me she might go ahead and finish. She made it appear to be forgetfulness, but I wondered if it was purposeful.

    Three years ago we bought a house that is more rural with lots of trees and a fairly long driveway. Sound is a non-issue and realistically, few people would walk up close enough to see anything. So it's now very common for me to be spanked during the daytime right in front of a window. It's unlikely that anyone will see, but not impossible and I admit that I find the risk to be a turn on. I'm certain that Beth does too and she often teases me about putting on a show when it's time for discipline.

    Yes, my wife does adopt a bitchy attitude when it's time for a spanking. She freely admits that she is bossy by nature and attributes it to being the oldest sister in a large family. She likes to give orders and that includes telling me to lower my pants for discipline. Even though she had almost no experience with spanking growing up, it came naturally to her.

    I'm sure Beth would never confide with her friends that she is a spanking wife. It would be way too personal and embarrassing for both of us if that became known. It's an open question whether she has told her sisters. There are three of them, ages 20 to 29. Beth is especially close with the oldest and it wouldn't surprise me if they have had that conversation - not that she or the other sisters have ever let on. I could ask my wife how much she has shared, but I'm not sure I want to know.

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    1. Hi Kevin. "It's unlikely that anyone will see, but not impossible and I admit that I find the risk to be a turn on." You're right that the mere possibility of being seen is enough to amp up the vulnerability and sense of exposure.

      Oldest sisters in large families definitely do seem to take on "boss" role. My dad is from a *very* large family, and he often comments about how bossy his oldest sister was and is to this day.

      Anne isn't close to her siblings, and her friends all seem to be pretty vanilla, so if she ultimately confides in someone, I don't think it would be any of them. I've always thought the likeliest candidate would be one or both of our daughters. She's hinted at the dynamic a few times, but it's always been pretty vague. At one point when we were experimenting a bit more with an FLR, it became obvious enough that she was making more decisions and bossing around more than one of the kids actually asked about the fact that she seemed to be in charge. She told me she told them something to the effect of I had an intense job that involved making lots of decisions (which was true), and that at home I liked letting all that responsibility go and deferring decisions to her. It may be that she ultimately doesn't confide in the kids, though they tend to share pretty much everything. It's a complicated dynamic though, because the one who I think she'd be most likely to share with has a lot of my personality tendencies and, I think, would be more likely to profit from being disciplined than being the one doling it out. Her significant other also seems like an unlikely "Top." The other has some domme-like tendencies, but I don't know whether her relationship would ever go in that direction or whether her significant other would be at all open to it.

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  3. I think once retirement happens, and there is no chance of losing one's job over the revelation of DD, that many proponents are more open about TTWD.

    When I was a young reporter, I wrote a story about all the "decorative" and "souvenir" spanking paddles (many with humorous sayings and pictures) that were available at every rest stop, 5 and dime, and antique store. Of course I was interested because of my fetish, and reported in the story that some shop owners were quite sure that some of those decorations were put to good use. The story got lots of response.

    After my retirement, my wife, like Dan's, became much more public with our DD, including threatening spankings in front of others and carrying them out in earshot of others. After one such incident, a former co-worker and friend said she now understood why I wrote that story so many years ago. I was embarrassed and aroused by her comment.
    KOJ

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    1. I will add that the absolutely most embarrassing thing I have ever experienced is rejoining a party knowing that everyone heard the hairbrush falling, and possibly my response, and knowing that my upper cheeks were as red as my lower. Very difficult to keep my head high and make eye contact.

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    2. For Anne, the fear of career retribution was definitely an impediment, and I get it. She was in one of the few professions left in which vague concepts like "moral turpitude" still had some teeth. For me, loss of job for private, consensual activities wouldn't have happened, but it was a very "dick measuring," competitive, environment. There isn't a doubt in my mind that it would have had a negative impact had it become widely known.

      Though, there was one person at work who accidentally came to get a small hint of insight into my proclivities. I was working from home and was having a weird computer problem. I called one of our local IT support people who I knew and liked. She ultimately had to take remote control of my system, and I could see on my screen what she was doing. At one point, she tried to do a "cut and paste" of some text, but what came up was actually something that I had cut while writing something for the blog. There was a very clear reference to spanking, though it wouldn't have identified me as being a spankee. When it came up on the screen, there was a pause as her cursor stopped moving. She then quickly cut that line and typed something else in. Neither of us ever referred to it, and it happened during Covid lockdowns, so we didn't physically see each other for many months after it happened.

      "I will add that the absolutely most embarrassing thing I have ever experienced is rejoining a party knowing that everyone heard the hairbrush falling, and possibly my response, and knowing that my upper cheeks were as red as my lower." I'm sure that had to be mortifying.

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    3. “I will add that the absolutely most embarrassing thing I have ever experienced is rejoining a party knowing that everyone heard the hairbrush falling, and possibly my response, and knowing that my upper cheeks were as red as my lower."
      This experience –being removed to a separate area being soundly spanked within hearing of others and then ordered to return to the gathering all without any comment from anyone ( except my Girlfriends” Let’s go” taking me out of the room –this experience is unique. I have been spanked in front of a witness several times but having it done within hearing, but out of sight, had a profound psychological impact.
      When my girlfriend took me back into the room I felt deeply embarrassed but at the same time very open and vulnerable, almost a “Zen” state for a while. But more than anything I felt very controlled and very obedient towards my girlfriend.
      Since then I have thought a lot about what a spanking does. I do believe that spanking in a DD relationship can modify behavior. But whether that works or not, one things it does for sure is teach obedience After a spanking there is just a deep powerful desire to obey and show obedience to the woman who has disciplined you regardless of what other emotions you are feeling. Maybe that is why spanking as discipline has been around so long. It teaches obedience very quickly, very clearly and very effectively.
      Alan

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    4. "This experience –being removed to a separate area being soundly spanked within hearing of others and then ordered to return to the gathering all without any comment from anyone ( except my Girlfriends” Let’s go” taking me out of the room –this experience is unique."

      As I've said before, while I've never experienced this scenario, something about it really is powerful. One would think that being spanked in front of others would be the most intimidating way of having a "witnesses" experience, yet something about being taken out of a room, with others knowing I'm going to be spanked but *not* seeing it, almost seems worse. Also, it seems worse if, as in your case, the witnesses didn't say anything after it was over but just acted as if nothing happened.

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    5. Dan, I must admit, in today's corporate world, given that things like homosexuality, transgenderism, female leadership and other practices not previously favoured are celebrated openly, it seems hard to imagine that someone would lose their job over people finding out they were in an FLR (or whichever variants are applicable), assuming they didn't say or do too many sexually explicit things in the workplace.

      On the other hand, what you said about "dick measuring" is interesting, as I feel it is a major impediment to men being willing to give the lifestyle a go and being willing to allow others to know that it happens. Granted, you have indicated in previous posts that you aren't so enthusiastic about DD being widely practiced in society, but you mentioned someone who you think might benefit from DD, but who you don't think is likely to give it a try. Maybe it is "dick measuring" that makes it unlikely? I don't know, based on the information you gave.

      I think there are many ways in which men might be able to encourage other men considering this lifestyle, or at least hold them to it, along the following lines:
      1) "DD helps me to be the best man I can be and I have achieved a, b, c as a result of the better habits it generated in me. I am blessed to have a wife who is willing to make me the man I can be like this."
      2) "Only a real man can stand up to the sort of spankings my wife gives! A lesser man would easily have given up on the lifestyle more quickly!"
      3) "Real men take accountability and letting their wives hold them accountable in this way goes a long way to making men accountable. A real man won't shirk a spanking."
      4) "Getting a "therapeutic spanking" [as alluded to in "A Husband's Essay"] has made married life so much better. I no longer get the silent treatment or other passive-aggressive behaviour. Things are dealt with quickly and we have more sex as a result."

      Regarding the former forces colleague I mentioned, we sort-of exchanged thoughts with these sentiments, i.e. DD spanking became our "dick measuring". However, we didn't get to the stage where we could share things more widely. It is a shame he is no longer around for me to share such thoughts with, but we shall see if another man in a similar situation comes along.

      J

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    6. Thanks, J. Anne's gig wasn't in the corporate world, which I agree has liberalized a lot. Though I doubt getting fired for being in an FLR would happen these days, how it would be treated socially within a company is up for grabs. If you haven't watched the Showtime series Billions, it's worth a watch just for the power dynamics. One of the characters is a Domme, but that part of her role isn't really known within the company she works for until she is "outed" by her husband. The scenario is kind of unrealistic, but the way she feels about being outed to co-workers comes off as pretty realistic, in my opinion.

      It's also hard to predict how concrete instances of coming out will be treated in this brave new world, because it all happened so fast. People conveniently forget that President Obama opposed gay marriage. Attitudes towards gays and lesbians changed dramatically in less than a single generation, which is just unprecedented. And, for all the liberalization, I'm not sure how much it extends to power dynamics. If anything, all the focus on egalitarianism and equality might make people even more hardened against relationships that create a hierarchy of power. I'm not sure that's how it would work, but I just don't know. I am pretty sure how it would play out in my own former profession, however, because it was very competitive and all about hierarchies. I think maybe a guy in an F/m relationship might be able to thrive, but it would have to involve a kind of fully open, full-throated embrace of the role.

      Sorry your friend from the service is no longer around. I'm sure it helped to have even one person to share things with.

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    7. I hadn't heard of the TV series "Billions". I looked it up while writing this message and it looks very interesting and worth learning more about.

      Without wanting to stray too far into politics, I think Barack Obama was happy to say whatever was politically expedient at the time!

      Again, I don't want to go too deep into politics, but when it comes to liberalization and egalitarianism, it all depends on people's perspectives. Some people take the "pure egalitarianism" perspective, i.e. that good things are good and bad things are bad, regardless of who is involved. Others take the "Critical Theory" perspective, which, as I understand it (rightly or wrongly), divides people into oppressors and oppressed and takes the view that only the oppressors can do wrong to the oppressed, not the other way around.

      In other words, someone subscribing to a "pure egalitarianism" perspective would probably take a negative view of a DD marriage, reasoning that a structure of power like this is wrong, whichever way round it is. On the other hand, someone subscribing to a "Critical Theory" perspective would probably not have a problem with it, reasoning that it is okay, because men have tended to be the oppressors and women the oppressed.

      Another position would be the classical liberalism/libertarianism perspective, which says that if only fully consenting adults are involved, there is problem.

      I don't know what your former profession is, but I assume in many professions, it would depend on how it was spun. If say a couple's marriage had similar dynamics to those described in "Female Led Relationships & Domestic Discipline: Memoirs from Real Couples" by M. T. Olson, the DD were mainly focused on getting him to be the best man he can be and the benefits of it were clearly visible in the corporate world, my assumption is it might be received a different way.

      It definitely helped to have the friend around to share things with: he was always keen to encourage me in my DD life. He was stockily built and his wife petite, so I never thought for a moment he would do the DD lifestyle unwillingly. I would describe him as being a very driven person, always keen to do the best he could as a soldier and in other areas of life. He said he enthusiastically took to DD because he believed (in my view quite rightly) that it would bring out further good traits in him that he would benefit from. He had various life goals, including rank and family goals. He achieved his promotional goals and would probably have set some more. He was aiming to have a family of at least five children (his wife was pregnant with the fifth child when he died). Hopefully, I can find other proponents of DD like him in the forces in time!

      J

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    8. J:

      I've been self-employed for many years, so I have limited "inside" corporate experience the past couple decades.

      I'm not so sure that various lifestyles/genders/sexual orientation are so much "celebrated" as being more "accepted" and "welcomed." When a substantial percentage of your workforce AND your customers fall into these various categories, not being open about "being accepting" can easily cause a corporation to loose at least 2-5% of its customers (or good employees). That difference can be the difference between success and bankruptcy on our modern uber-competitive economy.

      While I certainly agree that it would seem very unlikely that an employee would be fired for participating on an FLR, I also wonder how such knowledge might affect an employee's advancement opportunities. You seem to phrase you comment in the sense of the employee being a man; in such a case, might not "upper management" (being overwhelmingly "male") question and possibly lack confidence in that employees own "leadership abilities." In the converse, if the employee were female, might that male upper management be concerned about her being too assertive, too aggressive and possibly too "bitchy" (in a not good way)?

      Similar negative attitudes might be even MORE prevalent in various military/combat services. (I'm glad it worked for your friend during his service; I hope his family retains many of those benefits.)





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    9. J., I hadn't thought about it, but I guess it could be the case that whether you see DD as violating some equality principle might depend on your views about the demographic the recipient is in.

      You stated: "I don't know what your former profession is, but I assume in many professions, it would depend on how it was spun. say a couple's marriage had similar dynamics to those described in "Female Led Relationships & Domestic Discipline: Memoirs from Real Couples" by M. T. Olson, the DD were mainly focused on getting him to be the best man he can be and the benefits of it were clearly visible in the corporate world, my assumption is it might be received a different way."

      Regarding my profession, I don't think it would have been spun that way. Even within our organization, it was a very competitive, someone testosterone-laden environment. Across organizations, it was and is even more so. Would some people be accepting of a lifestyle that some see as about being "submissive"? Sure. But a whole bunch of others absolutely would have seen it as weakness.

      I hadn't heard of that book, so I took a look at it. A couple of reactions. First, the title doesn't seem to match up very well with the actual content. Instead of being a compilation of memoirs from several different couples, the vast majority of it is from one person and the author, and the vast majority of the entries are sub-topics around the main topic of Christian Domestic Discipline. Second, if you're going to self-publish, for god sakes hire a proofreader or at least proofread your own drafts. I don't think I've ever seen that many typos and blatant grammatical errors in a single book.

      Billions is worth a watch. There's nothing very profound about it, but it's entertaining, at least for the first couple of seasons. I did feel like the most recent season was pretty weak, and to a big extent because the writers seemed to lose interest in the psychologist/dominatrix character and really let her drift out of focus.

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    10. Dan wrote” “I hadn't heard of that book, so I took a look at it. A couple of reactions.”

      I looked at it too because at least one commentator had alluded to it – and because I too am always on the outlook for some really good books on adult consensual spanking

      This aint it!

      What it is mainly consists of a not very well done paste in of old articles, appropriated from old yahoo groups or previously published stories. If you are looking for real information on THWE do, then look elsewhere.
      But I want to make a much larger point here. There is a vast absence of anything out there really aimed at a discerning reader. There are two I have come across as serious (Mistress Manual and Spanking Handbook) and I understand some earlier material produced by Janet Hardy bad her colleagues are pretty good.
      But that is about it.
      Why? As a practicing capitalist it must come down to supply and demand. We who aspire to learn and practice DD just are not supporting those few writers who do address the topic intelligently and seriously – and perhaps instead we of guilty of buying the CRAP being marketed on Amazon as “female led”. Have you ever looked at some of the kindle offerings listed at 20 to 30 pages masquerading as “books”?
      I don’t know how to change all this but I do know
      1. We should start exchanging books we have found and were series
      2. Dan or someone he collaborate with should begging to produce material drawn from this blog
      There is more real and valuable DD material on this one blog that all the rest of the internet combined
      Alan

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    11. I worked for a company that basis everything on "wholesomeness." I took a big risk when I started blogging. If anyone at work found out, I would be done. Now I'm retired, sort of. I'm writing now. It wouldn't help that career to be identified as kinky, but not devistating.

      My wife doesn't have many friends and would never share with them. Of course, we have a large online readership who get the details of every spanking. We don''t socialize with our neighbors. I doubt they know what we do. The windows and blinds stay open when I am spanked.

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    12. Alan, totally agree on the quality of that book.

      A good one I'd add to your list is The Hesitant Mistress. It's a little more on the FLR/Femdom side, but still pretty useful, and not riddled with typos, etc.

      I agree the issue with lack of good F/m DD content is supply and demand, with the "demand" side being the big problem. Through this blog, I met and have become close to a woman in a M/f dynamic who also happens to be a very successful author in that space. Like one of the top-rated "romance" authors on Amazon. She's helped me out and given me a lot with insight into the economics of the kink-genre publishing industry and, while she's encouraged me give writing F/m DD books a shot, she's emphasized that the sales figures for even the few good authors in that space are just totally dwarfed by those writing M/f content. There are just far, far more female consumers of kinky literature, and most of them are into M/f spanking, not FLR or F/m DD.

      At some point she pointed me to a tool that allows you to take Amazon's published sales ranking for a book, enter it into a calculator, and then the calculator will estimate how much that volume of sales would have earned for the author. I tried it using some of the more popular F/m books I'd found, and the total earnings really did fall into the "trivial" bucket.

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    13. Was that this one Alan? The Mistress Manual: The Good Girl's Guide to Female Dominance Paperback – June 1, 2000
      by Mistress Lorelei

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    14. Mark:

      Yes Mistress Lorelei was the author. Unfortunately as far as I know she never authored another book.

      Dan: The authors who make significant money from writing and publishing are minuscule. I know one guy who has published several “successful” books almost all published by established companies ( i.e. not kindle) He once told me at least semi seriously that he figured he had made almost a dollar an hour for his labor .
      It’s something you do for love

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    15. I would like to add some of my own observations here. . .

      First, I generally agree with the dirth of educational DD materials. These past thirty hours, I've spent roughly three to four hours going through roughly 80 Amazon search pages from relevant terms: Almost total Crap! (Overwhelmingly M/f fiction, with about equal parts appearing to be directed at men and women. Of the F/m material, >>99% was fictional accounts directed at men.)

      The one book I did find, about factual DD in a WLM, was written by a middle-aged lesbian woman about herself and her wife. Apparently it got many good reviews, and won several "scene awards" when it first came out. From what little I've read (from the limited Amazon "preview" pages) this HOH appears to have established a relatively long term relationship, and is also competent at stringing together meaningfully related sentences and paragraphs (although a few problems with grammar). The book is: "Taken In Hand: A Guide to Domestic Discipline, Power Exchange Relationships and Related BDSM Topics" by Jolynn Raymond.

      (There is another book, part of her "FLR Series" of books, by Marisa Rudder: "SPANKING: The Erotic Guide to Relationship Discipline." I've been very unimpressed by all of Ms Rudder's books! While this book does cover the basics, in multiple chapters (with much unnecessary "filler"), Ms. Rudder seems to have great difficulty understanding the concept of paragraphs containing related sentences and thoughts. which makes reading disjointed and frustrating.)

      Finally, there are three books that me wife thinks might be useful, but were published, and she only discovered, well after she had "self educated" in most of the topics. (BTW: Apparently their author, "Lady Pandora," was a contemporary of Aunt Kay and Jerry (Tommy Nash), and knew both of them informally.) "Lady Pandora" has published multiple books, but the three my wife liked best were:

      (1) "The Art of Corporal Punishment (The Art of Discipline, Book 1)" (2020). This is about 170 pages covering history, psychology, and physical techniques of corporal punishment, both erotic and disciplinary. (I don't know if there ever will be a "Book 2," as might be inferred from "Book 1's" title.)

      (2) "The Art of Caning" (2020). A short (~50 pages) but well written treatise on "the basics" of practical caning.

      (3) "Lady Pandora's ABC of Discipline" (2020). Covers a great deal of practical and psychological material on physical discipline, in roughly 190 pages. A lot of the material is useful, and the writing is competent. Unfortunately, Lady Pandora chose to organize the book on the basic of the alphabet, which leads to a lot of discontinuity in presentation. Nevertheless, I think much of this is worthwhile.

      (All three of Lady Pandora's books were professionally proofed, edited and commercially printed / published, as well as being available for Kindle.)

      Delete
    16. I do like that Kindle has opened up self-publishing as an option. We've talked about monopoly behavior with blogging platforms -- they probably learned it from the publishing houses! There are only a handful of large ones, and they keep trying to consolidate further. Therefore, for the most part, I'm glad the technology exists to circumvent what was a very, very narrow funnel for good authors to get to the public.

      However, I don't get the mindset that just because you can self-publish, it's OK to turn out total crap and ignore the basics. Like spelling. Or, as you say Donn, that paragraphs should comprise related sentences, and be strung together with a coherent line of thought.

      Regarding the fact that what is available out there is mostly fiction, that doesn't really bother that much if it's informative and entertaining enough to pique the reader's interests. Though, some newbies probably would prefer more of an "instruction manual" format.

      Believe it or not, I'm aware of one Ph.D. dissertation focused on DD and even have a copy of it. I don't recall who sent it to me but, honestly, it reinforced the view I already have that PhD's in the social sciences can be pretty fluffy and are more about putting in time than doing cutting edge research.

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    17. Oops, almost forgot one:

      "The Hesitant Mistress: A Guide to Claiming Your Feminine Power" (2014), by Dvanna Hightower.

      Very well written book designed for a vanilla woman. A book intended to help such a woman in several ways: (1) To understand the submissive and disciplinary desires of the man in her life; (2) To help the woman understand her own inhibitions and methods of overcoming them; (3) Extensive section on "projecting female power" into the relationship.

      Yes, it is titled more like a D/s or BDSM book, but it is very "light," and very applicable to intermediate level FLR's with basic DD.

      Tell me what you think?

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    18. Donn,
      This is a great start to circulating worthwhile titles. I agree with you strongly about the Rudder series. It is very uneven and not worth reading (especially her volume on spanking) I finished it thinking it was entirely possible she never administered a disciplinary spanking in her life despite purporting to be an “expert” on the topic.
      I knew of Lady Pandora as a producer and performer but was not familiar with her written work. I certainly will remedy that. Her films are very good, albeit all performance art as far as I know
      Thanks again for the review
      Alan

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    19. Alan,

      We may be thinking of different "Lady Pandora's." From the photograph that accompanies her Amazon Profile, the author Lady Pandora appears to be a woman in her late 50's to early 60's, of lower height and quite common facial features. From her appearance, I would much more expect to see her at local church's "quilting bee" or "pot luck dinner,' NOT starring in "spanking videos."

      Then again, we can all be thrown-off by our own stereotypes and preconceptions!

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    20. Alan,

      CORRECTION: YES, we are most certainly talking about the SAME "Lady Pandora."

      I only looked at her Amazon photo, and totally failed to read her extensive Amazon CV/biography. Definitely someone who knows CP/DD, both personally and as a business, and likes talking and teaching about it all!

      My Bad! (I should know better the leap at my own stereotypes.)

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    21. I agree that most of the published material on domestic discipline (especially female-led) or even general spanking just doesn't look all that well written let alone insightful. There are two titles though that I am curious about. The first is the guide to scolding that was put out by the DWC. Scolding is a pretty central element in a lot of people's desire for discipline. Judging from the comments that tops of both genders have made about not feeling comfortable doing it, probably few people do it well. I don't think there's much good advice out there either for that matter. The second is Strict Women by Annabelle Watson which is a collection of interviews of people in the lifestyle.

      I did read the dissertation referenced above. If I remember right, it was titled 'Assume the Position'. It wasn't all that interesting.

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    22. I enjoyed reading everyone's insights about different books/materials. Another that I liked, though it was pretty basic, was "The Good Wife's Guide to Taking Charge: A Female-Led-Relationship Primer" by Rebecca Lawson.

      As for the being spanked within earshot of others, I did have it happen the one time (which I have recounted here several times) but the effect was probably muted by two things: 1) I didn't come into the room after it happened before my wife's friend left, so I didn't have to see her face to face right after. And 2) the whole time it was happening, I wasn't totally sure that it wouldn't be her coming into the room, since my wife was toying with me saying that "one of them would be right in," so obviously that was much more on my mind than whether the friend could hear or not.

      -ZM

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    23. Jake, yes, that's the one. Somehow managed to make something I've been obsessed with for 15+ years dry and boring

      Delete
    24. Jake wrote: “The second is Strict Women by Annabelle Watson which is a collection of interviews of people in the lifestyle …”

      Jake, I agree with you that this is a good book. Unfortunately it’s almost certainly fiction disguised to look like a serious collection of case studies.
      The author, whoever he or she is, lists no source notes and provides no discussion of the methods used to gain the very “private interviews. All of this raised multiple red flags abbot the authenticity of the book

      I do think however that the author showed imagination as well as some knowledge and talent in making up the interviews comprising the book. If he or she turned to legitimate fiction, they almost certainly would produce some very good material
      Alan

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    25. Late addition to our discussion of DD books . . .

      Does anyone have any experience and/or opinions on the two self-published books (*.pdf) by Nan Wise, LCSW:

      (1) "Spanking the Male Mind" (2007);

      (2) "How to Spank Your Man" (2008)?

      (DWC Couple "Lady Cora and her Ken," over at "spankedbymylady.blogspot.com," found them very useful for their own relationship.)

      Anybody have any thoughts?

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    26. I was aware of them, but I didn't end up buying them, as I felt the price was excessive in comparison to other literature on this subject I found. Granted, I might have taken a different view if say some consensus existed that the quality is substantially higher and justifies the higher price tag, but without such consensus being known to me beforehand, it is a case of buying things and finding out.

      J

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  4. My partner was never previously into spanking at all, so the concept was all new to her. Before, she was very sweet, never bossy. I have encouraged her to be more demanding with me, which she has taken it to heart. She now enjoys bossing me around and getting housework done before putting me over her knee. She now spanks much harder and longer than she used to, which I find very satisfying. She uses a timer for maintenance spankings, which will be 5 minutes of hard paddling every week, plus whatever discipline I may have earned. She has become more asserative in other areas of her life as well, and has better bounderies than she did when we got together. Up until now, we have kept the windows and curtains closed. However, she has given me spankings outside, and if the neighbors were home, they could hear. I have encouraged her to inform her women friends about our DD, but it seems when she dropped hints, there was little interest. We are both comfortable with the fact that we are consciously playing with power. All of this is a huge turn on for me, but for her, it is more matter of fact, necessary part of the relationship. She enjoys reminding and teasing me that I have a spanking coming up, which I always find very reassuring. She doesn't enjoy giving me disciplinary spankings, but she will always do it soon after the offense. Most of them have been due to my self reporting about my alcohol use, which has been reduced to about a third of where it was. I sleep much better now, and odds are if you sleep better, you live longer. Dan, perhaps another topic might be "what are the benefits for you and your relationship from practicing DD."

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    1. "She has become more asserative in other areas of her life as well, and has better bounderies than she did when we got together." I think DD helped Anne take power in other areas of her life as well.

      I'm glad that DD has helped limit your alcohol consumption. I can't say it has succeeded in that area for me. My use did drop *a lot* a year ago, but it was because I wasn't at work anymore, not because of DD. And, it has kind of started creeping up again.

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  5. One additional item I forgot to include r.e. involving others knowing was my cleaning lady discovering a spanking paddle under the bed. She put it on the night stand and never brought it up, but it is slightly erotic to me that she knows. She probably isn't sure who is getting paddled, but she could probably figure it out from knowing my no nonsense partner.

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    1. That's interesting that she left it on the nightstand, thereby letting you know that she knows.

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    2. I think the "found implement" thing is a pretty interesting way to let others know about what you do (if left out intentionally), or if left out accidently it would still be embarrassing and it would be interesting to see what response they give, if any. One thing that I must note with this, which is the same as in the case of others overhearing spankings, is that they have no real way of knowing which partner is being spanked, or if it is real or just kinky fun.

      -ZM

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    3. ZM, good point on the "found" instruments. My wife has taken to leaving three of them in plain view but in our bathroom where not many people would go. And, as you point out, they wouldn't know who was spanked if they were to see them.

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    4. Some found implements make it clear. We had one that said "For naughty boys of all ages." It hung on the bedroom wall, and my late wIfe occasionally took her girlfriends into the bedroom to talk. Just one of the ways people knew. I would always blush when my wife and a new friend headed for the bedroom. I never took anyone in there.
      KOJ

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  6. I'm not quite sure how it happened but my sister-in-law and my best friend and his wife know that my wife spanks me. It is occasionally mentioned by them in passing and is definitely embarassing... it always comes out of the blue and I am tongue tied not knowing how to respond. Mercifully they usually move rapidly on (I think having received the reaction they were after)! Given that they already know, I would like to be forced to take a punishment in their earshot (or in their presence).
    We are heading toward retirement... I hope that our relationship moves as yours has Dan.

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    1. I'm sure that's the way knowing comments would always work in real life -- someone says something out of the blue and you're left without a ready response.

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    2. Having spanking talked about in front of me or having someone make a remark about it is something that I would really like to experience. Or at least I think I would... :-)

      -ZM

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    3. I have been tongue-tied every time. But then I have thought, what would I say? I can't deny it. I can't say I enjoy it. I guess I could say it makes me a better husband, or she wears the pants, but those things are obvious. Blushing was a good enough response, I think.
      KOJ

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  7. My wife rarely spanks me. But when she does she really doesn't care about other people over hearing or even seeing us. She has spanked me naked, over her lap, in the living room during the day with windows open and visible from the street.

    I've mentioned this to her and her attitude is that, I am the one in the embarrassing position and since it was during the school day no children were around if anyone sees me then that serves me right.



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    1. There is something very logical about a wife wondering why she should feel embarrassed, since she isn't the one getting the spanking.

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    2. So true! My wife was never embarrassed and took the position that if I didn't want to be embarrassed I just needed to behave better and not give her a reason to embarrass me!
      KOJ

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    3. "My wife was never embarrassed and took the position that if I didn't want to be embarrassed I just needed to behave better and not give her a reason to embarrass me!"

      It sounds so simple in theory, doesn't it?

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  8. Nobody else knows, as far as I know. Our oldest son has hinted at hearing things through the vents when he was younger, so he may know more than we think. It is just more comfortable believing that he doesn’t know.

    Ann isn’t what I would call “bitchy.” She is finding her voice. This, unfortunately for me and my bottom, means I’m getting more frequent and harder spankings.

    My car’s check engine light came on yesterday. She mentioned how glad she was that I could drive to work and she wouldn’t have to listen to comments about her driving. I reminded her that she could either warn me that my next comment would trigger a spanking or simply tell me to go to our bedroom and pull down my pants when we got home. She simply said, “Oh, yeah .” There was a significant pause between oh and yeah!

    I’m already up to a spanking on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. Help!!!!!

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    1. "I reminded her that she could either warn me that my next comment would trigger a spanking or simply tell me to go to our bedroom and pull down my pants when we got home." We have variations on this conversation constantly, yet it never quite seems to stick.

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    2. I’m hopeful, or dreading, not sure which. Ann recently remembered a spanking I had earned, but had been postponed. That was a first!! I’m afraid she is, as she said tonight after spanking me, finding her voice.

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    3. I experienced something similar this weekend. After wanting more strictness and openness, I got it.

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    4. I got two spankings this week, postponed because of a family funeral. Ann has found her voice. The scoldings were the most intense ever. She pulled down my briefs herself and gloated about how empowered it made her feel. Then she delivered the hardest spankings she’s ever given, although not the longest. I cried for several minutes after she stopped spanking. I’m getting what I want and need. Yippee???

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    5. "Ann has found her voice."

      I hear you.

      "Yippee???"

      I hear that too.

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  9. I’m driving to work and home. She will drop me off there and not have to put up with my comments about her driving.

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  10. Although I haven't been spanked within earshot of friends, my wife has taken a paddle to my backside on the side of a country road and in a tent at a packed campsite. She has no problems in spanking me naked in our home with the windows open, so the neighbours can hear.

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    1. In a tent at a packed campsite would certainly be embarrassing.

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    2. It was and I did notice strange looks from other campers the next day.

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    3. On the campsite? Total embarassing! You see this people later all around, constantly...

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  11. My wife definitely needs to assert more of her bitchiness attitude into discipline. We had a large gathering at our home with many out of state guest. At one point, I was prepping food and had an issue with the grill. I was a bit short and moody with her and she told me to lower my voice. This was in earshot of family members. She repeated it multiple times. My alpha male side came out and said, I wasn’t really loud. She walked over and said to me don’t worry, it will be addressed on Monday. I know what she meant. I’m do for a spanking tomorrow. We cleaned up a bit today and she made a subtle reminder today about tomorrow. Although I don’t really want a thrashing, I’m hoping she follows up and tans my hide good and proper tomorrow. Looking back, I was a bit short with her and definitely deserve a spanking. Our friends and family sang our praises about the gathering and she showered me with adoration, but I’m hoping that stern bitchiness comes out tomorrow while beating me.
    T

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    1. "Although I don’t really want a thrashing, I’m hoping she follows up and tans my hide good and proper tomorrow. Looking back, I was a bit short with her and definitely deserve a spanking."

      I feel this way a lot, on two levels. First, I definitely understand not wanting a hard spanking, yet also recognizing that I deserve one and hoping she follows through with it. Second, I definitely get becoming frustrated with some task and becoming short or downright rude.

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  12. Dan, congratulations on entering what sounds like an incredible phase of life!

    Regarding attitude, in my mind, bitchy and assertive overlap, but aren't the same thing. Many women seem to have a graceful, calm, assertiveness. Like a river that smoothly carries you off to where it wants you to go, rather than an abrasive confrontation. In my mind, that kind of demeanor is exciting to obey and completely compatible with having a paddle in hand. I think I would also go along with 'bitchy' commands, too. Just different personalities that are both completely capable of leading us husbands.

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    1. I agree they overlap but aren't the same thing. Assertiveness is definitely the more positive spin because, unlike true bitchiness, in seems to be more about being secure and confident in one's own authority. Let's face it, confidence is sexy whether in a man or woman.

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    2. I guess I have a different perception of "bitchiness" relative to "assertiveness." In fact, my original perceptions changed quite a lot, mostly through conversations with my wife regarding her training programs directed toward women moving up into corporate management positions.

      For a long time, for me, it was always a case of "knowing 'bitchiness' when I say it," without really thinking about what triggered that combination of emotional feeling and the conscious conclusion. Very similar to the similar "knowing it when I see it" perception of equivalent male-behavior of "acting/being a 'dick'!"

      After talking with my wife, and actually thinking more deeply about what it was that triggered those perceptions, I learned it is usually a combination of two factors:

      (1) The exercise/expression of "unnecessary" levels of power and/or authority (verbally / physically); and

      (2) The exercise of power/authority for arbitrary or wholly "personally 'self-serving'" reasons (emotionally or economically self-serving).

      Either method or motivation of expression (or actions) can easily invoke perceptions of "bitchiness" or "dickiness" in a recipient's perceptions.

      As noted, my wife spends a lot of time with female management to help them understand how these expressive behaviors can be legitimately considered "bitchiness" among subordinates, and how to assertively express themselves based upon (A) the actual goals, and (B) actual business priorities, so as to minimize such perceptions. (She also spends a lot of time educating women that no matter how careful they are, a certain (hopefully decreasing) percentage of people (mostly men) will still consider assertive women as "bitchy," and the only solution to that is "confident, consistent professionalism.")

      These are certainly factors that DD-wives need to understand. Understand to overcome some wives' initial hesitancy, and to better understand how best, to assert themselves with confidence.

      Frankly, I personally think it is great when my wife can "cross the line" and intentionally utilize higher, unnecessary levels of verbal and physical power, particularly when it is beyond the actual corrective needs of myself, herself and the relationship.

      It took me a while to "corrupt" my wife; to undue some of her own philosophy, self-training and "internal corporate guidelines." To get her to realize the potential relationship benefits of intentional "bitchiness."

      I find her expressing excess power, in arbitrary and capricious ways, to be very enthralling. It certainly places me into a very subordinate, submissive and obedient state of mind, which can be very useful in reinforcing and maintaining the overall power-dynamics of our relationship. Hey, what can I say -- "limited, intentional bitchiness" -- I love it, and it works!

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    3. Your wife's view of what distinguishes "bitchiness" from "assertiveness" makes a lot intuitive sense. My only quibble would be with the proposition that it's mainly men who still see assertive women as bitchy. In my experience, women are *at least* as harsh on other women as men are, including on aspects like perceived bitchiness.

      "I find her expressing excess power, in arbitrary and capricious ways, to be very enthralling." I used the following quote for a post here several months ago:

      "Reasonable orders are easy enough to obey; it is capricious, bureaucratic or plain idiotic demands that form the habit of discipline." - Barbara W. Tuchman

      There seems to be a lot of truth in that.

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    4. I like that quote, but also, haven't we had days when we find the most reasonable requests the most irritating? :) When our DD relationship is functional, that's when I'm most thankful for it, after I've had time to think about it, anyway.

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    5. I don't like the quote by Tuchman. Simply on the grounds of trust. If I think the command is idiotic but I trust the person giving the command and I don't see it harming someone of course I would still obey. However, if I don't trust the person issuing the command I would disobey even if I surferred the consequences. I have been fired from a job for that very reason. If the person is my wife I might try to reason with her and I might disobey knowing the consequences and I would be forced to ultimately obey but she would know my reasoning. In general I can be submissive in most circumstances but in some cases if I believe I am right I will have to make my opinion known. I trust her and her decision is final but usually she will let me reason with her and if she does not agree she will explain why her decision is in our best interest. I have however been severely spanked for defiance when she makes a decision and I continue to argue with her but that is what I signed up for.
      Ward

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    6. I think it depends on the context. I think what she is saying is there is no special merit, and really no "obedience" as such in "obeying" an order you agree with anyway. If the goal is fostering real obedience, ordering someone to do something they would have done anyway doesn't advance the ball. The best example would probably be military basic training, where recruits are subject to orders to do all sorts of things that serve no purpose. It's a "because I said so" thing that is designed to build the habit of obeying orders without having a discussion about it, because that what is required in real combat situations.

      I am someone who doesn't take orders easily, questions everything, and fairly often balked and refused to comply with things that others found perfectly reasonable (like my company's dress code). I would say that some of that rebelliousness helped me rise up the ladder but, honestly, a lot of it was counterproductive to larger goals. I think taking what Tuchman is saying to an extreme is a problem, but so is resistance to authority at times.

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    7. "The best example would probably be military basic training, where recruits are subject to orders to do all sorts of things that serve no purpose. It's a 'because I said so' thing that is designed to build the habit of obeying orders without having a discussion about it, because that what is required in real combat situations." - Agreed. And interestingly, while it might be easier to obey an order from someone that you trust, a very big part of basic training is not only to instill discipline and obedience, but also trust. You learn to trust by obeying.

      And I too am a total rebel when it comes to authority of most any sort. I buck up against authority in ALMOST every case, but then surprisingly there are a few things in which I am a rule follower and find it hard to break even minor rules. People are certainly complex!

      -ZM

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    8. "And interestingly, while it might be easier to obey an order from someone that you trust, a very big part of basic training is not only to instill discipline and obedience, but also trust. You learn to trust by obeying."

      Very good point.

      I don't whether there is any context in which I'm a rule-follower. I can't really think of any off the top of my head.

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  13. I wish she would be more open in some aspects. I don't think I would be too embarrassed by it but I don't think she is anywhere near that stage
    Ward

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  14. I liked what Allen said about the deep desire to obey after being spanked. After a spanking I am putty in my husband's hands, both sexually and every other way. I truly believe that I would do absolutely anything he told me to do.
    Cynthia Ellen

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    1. Me, too. And, while I've never experienced, I intuitively gets what he means about that feeling of obedience spilling out into a Zen-like experience when he had to rejoin the group after his spanking.

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  15. I love that she is becoming more assertive. I used to think she was being bittchy but have come to understand that she like me would not simply submit when she knew her position to be the correct one unfortunately the consequence for her was my anger even if she was right. Ultimately someone has to be in charge and I realize I am not a good
    leader
    Ward

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  16. I am glad Cynthia Ellen, Dan and others mentioned the connection between feelings of deep obedience and being sparked. Originally I was just recalling an embarrassing but memorable experience. But somehow in remembering it, the overpowering feelings I had experienced of wanting to obey her after the spanking (and being very calm about that desire and what had happened) - that seems to be offering me a present insight in that the point of adult spanking or the power of adult spanking and usually the result is obedience felt toward the disciplinarian. I am not saying at all that spanking is uni-dimensional in it effect or that it can’t deal with a slew of behavioral or attitude issues. I know too well that it can do all those things. But whatever else spanking does it (especially repeated spankings from the same person) teaches respect and obedience to the disciplinarian. Maybe that (learning obedience) is really the core of DD and all else flows from that.
    Alan

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    1. Hi Alan, excellent insight. I am always surprised at how I tend to become more and more submissive during a spanking and how I just want to obey after a spanking.

      -ZM

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    2. Hi ZM,
      Hope things are all well. The observation I made that getting spanked tends to make one become obedient seems like a “Duh” moment.
      But it started me thinking about the cumulative effect of being spanked rather than a single spanking and wondering if a large part of the foundation of DD is not the habit of obedience produced by a few or more likely several serious spankings.
      You allude to Danielle and that reminds me of something she once wrote to the effect that “Wayne” would never disobey her. As I remember it, she attributed his obedience to honoring their agreement or to that effect.
      Maybe so. But I wonder if his habitual obedience as well as the obedience we give our own wives isn’t linked in a very visceral way from being spanked previously for misbehavior or disobedience. My former G.F. had quite a few rules in place she often referred to as “spankable” (as in “Allen that is spankable” But when she punished me I don’t remember it being so much for specific behavior as for being “disobedient” Women do like to be obeyed..
      Alan

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    3. I have incredible respect for and obedience to my husband, even though he has only given me three disciplinary spankings. He is clearly my leader. I still can be quite sassy and irresponsible, however, and I hope he will force more obedience with his strong right hand.
      Cynthia Ellen

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    4. Hi Alan, I agree with you about the cumulative effect of being spanked resulting in a habit of obedience. It is certainly true that a spanking can help with obedience, but a long-term disciplinary relationship can do so much more effectively. I think back to the times we have talked about it almost becoming impossible to refuse a spanking. Yes, I might object, but if my wife decides to spank me, I can't really refuse because my obedience (and submission at least to some part) are now so established.

      My wife has never really focused on disobedience or disrespect when spanking me, but that is probably because she has mostly spanked me for failing to achieve goals on our weekly check-ins or from time to time for attitude. I do think this is likely to change somewhat, however, since we were recently talking about it and she seemed to really resonate with the idea of punishing disrespect or disobedience.

      -ZM

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    5. ZM spoke: …she seemed to really resonate with the idea of punishing disrespect or disobedience.”
      I have talked to my wife about this before and I know that she likes the notion of keeping things simple. As someone long fascinated with evolutionary biology I suspect our reptilian brain likes to sum things into broad categories too.

      So for example a spanking for losing it in traffic becomes “disrespect” or taking that extra drink at a party becomes “disobedience”. Or failing to tell her something I am trying to conceal is dishonesty (lies of omission as she makes it)

      When I think about it the probably dozens of behaviors that could now or have in the past gotten me in trouble over the years can be reduced to simple concise behavior like disrespect, dishonesty and disobedience (the famous three D’s). I think DD works best when the rules are simple and the lines of authority are very clear. Alan

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    6. "I think DD works best when the rules are simple and the lines of authority are very clear."

      Well put.

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  17. Hi Dan,
    Great to hear that things are picking up a bit in terms of frequency, immediacy, and especially openness. Her lack of concern if the neighbors were to find out, however unlikely that might be, is quite telling.

    On the frequent topic of witnesses that we seem to gravitate back to often (frequently in no small part from me pushing or pulling us back that way!), I think you hit on a key point. It is not just who the witness is or how you know them, but also how they feel about you. I have often thought that what would be the most compelling witness scenario is one where the witness had some grievance against you. Them having some skin in the game would make all the difference. Knowing that they are happy about you being spanked and enjoying your predicament would indeed make it much more embarrassing I would think.

    The whole bitchiness thing is a bit complicated. Society does tend to promote egalitarianism, or at least the idea of it. But we also worship power and idolize those who are powerful, except when we don’t, in which case we think those people are evil for seeking power. For DD couples, I agree that pretty much all men want more sternness, more open dominance, and more clearly exercised authority and control. So disciplinary wives probably need not worry about getting off on exercising power, because probably their husbands get off at least as much on seeing their wives exercise authority. My wife maintains that she is not the least bit concerned about being seen as “bitchy,” and that it is no obstacle to her, but I am less sure of that than she is.

    “Yet, she is candid with me that she does, in fact, get off on exercising power. It’s not so much about the spanking. It’s about exercising the authority that leads to one.” - I think my wife is largely the same, though she does happen to like spanking me a lot. But at the end of the day, I think it is mostly the exercising power that provides most of the rush.

    My wife also loves service domination. My feelings about it aren’t too much different than spanking. I get turned on by the thought of it or the memory of it, but usually don’t enjoy it all that much when it is actually happening. Interestingly, I think this is exactly the scenario where bitchiness could come in handy, compared to the normally preferable strong, self-assured, “matter of fact” style of exercising authority. When she is making you do tasks, I think it is pretty compelling when she becomes a bit more like an impossible to please bitch. It just seems to work with that scenario.

    “I know the first time Anne carries through with chastising me in public or referring openly to her intention to spank me, I will almost certainly be extremely embarrassed……I’m sure when it happens I will absolutely hate it in the moment. But, I also think it’s highly likely that I will find it very arousing in retrospect.  Part of me can’t help but hope she becomes more comfortable over time with openly demonstrating, and reveling in, her own power.” - Pretty much exactly how I feel about this.

    Regarding what Danielle - who I must mention I miss “seeing” here greatly - wrote: “I like having the final say, I like being obeyed, and I like being able to express myself bluntly, either with the hairbrush or a verbal dressing down, when I am dissatisfied. Nobody except my closest friend knows I spank Wayne, but I no longer hide my bossiness from family and friends. I like that people can see I’m the boss.” - Excellent point of view, emphasizing the FLR aspect of her relationship. It is clear that you could have most everyone know she is boss, even if they don’t know that she spanks you, and then only some selected, trusted group that knows about the spankings or has been involved in them in some way.

    -ZM

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    1. "I have often thought that what would be the most compelling witness scenario is one where the witness had some grievance against you. Them having some skin in the game would make all the difference. Knowing that they are happy about you being spanked and enjoying your predicament would indeed make it much more embarrassing I would think."

      I totally agree. There is a story on KD Pierre's website called "Pride" that has just such a scenario.http://mattmansfigures.homestead.com/XPride.html

      I do react differently to service domination than to spanking. I may get turned on by it a bit in retrospect but none at all just thinking about and definitely not while it is happening. And, while with spanking I feel nervous thinking about getting one and knowing it is going to happen, service domination just makes me irritated. I hadn't thought about it, but you're probably right that I might feel less irritated and more turned on or intimidated or something if it was done in a "bitchier" way.

      I too miss Danielle.

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    2. I don't like to think in terms of her being "bitchy," and I would not respond well if I thought her discipline was too self-serving. Maternal, parental, nurturing, fair and with a strong will to exact justice is what I find attractive. But having said that, she enjoys being in that position of authority, and believes that shame and embarrassment are a necessary element of effective discipline. There is a certain level of fear that exists being under her authority. The idea that she would invite a witness, especially one who was wronged and gets satisfaction from seeing the punishment, is powerful — maybe too powerful in reality, but that's the edge of the cliff I can't help but stand on.

      Delete
    3. Well said, Brett. I share many of your feelings on the attraction of being disciplined.

      I wouldn't use the word "bitchy" to describe Beth's approach to punishment. Although she might be totally exasperated by the time she is ready to spank, she collects herself before picking up the hairbrush. I get a very thorough lecture about what got me there and what will be happening next. As if I didn't know by then! In a way, Beth treats it like a chore, but she loves being the boss and this leaves no doubt that she's in charge.

      So Beth likes being in control and I like it that way too. It's embarrassing being punished like a misbehaving child, but I got over that a long time ago. The spankings don't happen as often any more and when they do, it's just between the two of us. I've certainly wondered how it would feel to get it in front of her sisters or friends, but we're not there yet.

      Delete
    4. Kevin and Brett, it's great that your wives both openly like being in charge.

      Delete
  18. Just an fyi, I'm out on another multi-day adventure and may be off-grid a lot through the first part of next week. Hopefully there won't be too many comments snagged as spam during that period, but in the last few days Google seems to have fixed its algorithm. Much fewer comments have been flagged as spam this week compared to last

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    1. Hi again:

      Related to our previous discussion about books that covered elements of DW's implementing DD, and continuing Jake's comments re the DWC "Scolding Book."

      I've been looking around the internet, for quite a number of years, for any used copies of Aunt Kay's publications. I have only found one couple who apparently has a set. I'm very hesitant to approach this couple, as I'm sure these publications have great sentimental value in their relationship.

      Frankly, I think all five (5) publications should be freely available in the public domain; freely available to download from the current DWC website. As far as I know, Tommy Nash, who likely inherited the copyrights, no longer has any interest in selling these publications. If Mr. Nash might be reading this forum, I would certainly like his input. Might you, Mr. Nash, have any copies of these publications that could be digitized and made available on the DWC website? The five I am referring to are:

      (1) "The DWC Lifestyle Kit & Companion Guide" (Two separate books (F+m), plus the "Contract for Discipline");

      (2) "How to Scold During Discipline";

      (3) "Please Discipline Me!"

      (4) "Finding a DWC Partner"

      (5) "Effective Caning Techniques Book (with [or without] DVD)."

      Alternatively: Dan -- You appear to be in periodic contact with Tommy Nash. Could you raise these topics with him? Might he, himself, still retain any archival copies of these publications.

      Alternatively: Dan -- As noted above, I have located one DWC couple who appears to have much/most/all of this material. I am fairly certain that the husband has periodically read, if not participated, here in your forums. As the husband likely knows who you are, and respects your seriousness and integrity in these matters (from your long maintenance of this website), might you be willing to approach this DWC couple? Ask them to temporarily lend the publications so that they could be digitized, and then returned to that DWC couple?

      Finally, if anybody else has, or knows of anyone who has, one or more of these publication, could you please speak up and help bring them into the public domain?

      Thanks again everyone.

      Delete
    2. Hi Donn. May be a little presumptuous to assume that Tomy (that's the pseudonym he was posting under on his own blog, not Tommy) indeed no longer wants to sell them and/or is interested in dedicating them to the public domain.

      My guess is I have archival copies at this point, though the two issues are (a) getting them off very old media; and (b) distributing them. Even if Aunt Kay's husband was OK with making them available, I'm not sure what the posting mechanism would be. Having watched more than one example of people doing things like closing down blogs and having the name taken over by porn sites, if I were advising him, I would tell him to absolutely NOT just cast them out there and whoever wants to do whatever they want with them. I know the DWC stuff was a labor of love for the people involved with them, and my view would be about the worst thing they could do would be some unthinking "dedication to the public domain."

      Delete
    3. Yes, Dan:

      I may have been presumptuous; I could have phrased that better, as my own "inference:" Tomy has apparently not processed any orders for at least three to six (3-6) years (I've repeatedly tried ordering from the DWC website during that period); and, he has stated [to you] that he is "stepping away." You are quite right that he may still want, or have a need, to generate income from these publications.

      I have considered the dilemma you refer to, but from a different perspective: Might it be possible to preserve the DWC website in some type of "conservatorship?" (I know of other websites that have been so preserved.) And how would such a preservation might be funded? As far as I know, Tomy is currently paying for all website costs from his own retirement funds.

      Yes, of course, the contents of the website (and the publications) could be "lifted" and "bastardized," then used for commercial purposes by unscrupulous persons. But, right now, I don't see any way to prevent another person from doing (again) what that previous blogger did in semi-recreating the site. (I understand that that blogger has been asked to remove the plagiarized site and they have not. Did they upload and simply walk away?) Similarly, I don't see any way to permanently preserve and protect the current URL/Domain-Name without a conservatorship.

      Dan wrote: ". . . if I were advising him, I would tell him to absolutely NOT just cast them out there and whoever wants to do whatever they want with them."

      So, Aunt Kay's books might be permanently lost to the dustbin of history? Personally, I think that relinquishing copyright, and making them available from some site for download (for even a few months) would ensure that the original, true publications would exist on the internet, available to anyone, in perpetuity. They would certainly be available in the Internet Archive in true original form. After the true publications were available to anyone, what value would bastardizing them have for unscrupulous persons.

      Anyway, I did not mean to step on Tomy's prerogative. I did call out to Tomy for his perspective. I did ask you to contact him for his perspective, right?

      These are all things that Tomy may have already considered, and may have made plans for. Maybe he would like to share his perspective and possible plans?

      (BTW: For perspective, if you examine the date that Aunt Kay lost her original domain name, and then the time gap until she reestablished her website under a new, different domain name, the "plagiarized" copy of her original website first appeared during that time gap. To me, that suggests that the person who downloaded her original site from the Internet Archive, then reproduced it in blog format, might have been most interested in ensuring the original site's contents remained publicly available to other DW couples. I've never seen any evidence that the blog has engaged in any marketing or advertising, or that the "owner" has ever changed the site since that time gap, or ever responded to any of the comments posted on the blog. Again, these strongly suggest the "owner" did not have nefarious/commercial motivations.)

      Delete
    4. I might look at The Wayback Machine at the Internet Archive. They have copies of these defunct sites. They can also serve as a neutral non-commercial host for archived books and audio, with appropriate permissions. I don't think there is a need for Dan to serve this role, even if he wanted to.

      Delete
    5. Hi MW,

      Thank you for your suggestion re the Internet Archive ("Wayback Machine"). I agree that would be an excellent "depository" for these five books by Aunt Kay. However, I would suspect that in the present time, having those books directly accessible from the DWC Website might make it much easier for interested parties to locate and download that material. (BTW: Dan made passing reference to possibly having some of this material in his older electronic archives. I'm not sure what Dan might have meant, as these five books were originally ONLY available as printed paper works. Its possible that Dan might have scanned them in the past?)

      I'm sorry if I was not clear in my previous posts, and thus contributed to you misinferring that I was suggesting Dan was somehow responsible or might want to be directly involved in transferring these works to digital form or posting them "somewhere." In both posts I tried to make clear that I was simply trying to (1) Find the works, somewhere, and (2) Establish communications with Tomy Nash, the apparent current copyright holder.

      Returning to my original posts, upon reconsideration I realize that placing these works in the "public domain" (i.e., relinquishing copyrights) would NOT be necessary to make them more fully available now, or for posterity. (I'm sure many people have downloaded various stories from Aunt Kay's website for "personal use," which I believe would fall under the Federal "Fair Use" exception to copyrights.

      Finally, regarding the Internet Archive, as noted in post #2 above: YES, that website does have almost all of the material that was ever posted on Aunt Kay's two websites. (The archive does appear to be missing two sections of that website: (1) Most of the photographs that accompanied the stories; and (2) The original "Guest Book" (ca. 2001-08) that was linked to, but hosted off-site, by Tripod.com. (The Internet Archive is unable to store "dynamically generated" / constantly-changing pages like that Guest Book.)

      Delete
    6. Continuing, somewhat, on the literature of DD, DW's and DWC:

      Many years ago (ca. 2004 ), when my wife was new to her DW duties, she wanted to know how other wives handled certain behaviors and infractions. How severe should CP be for different types of infractions, for example, "disrespect," "insubordination," "disobedience," "bad attitude," "forgetfulness", "bad habits", etc.; and, how much "more severe" should CP be when these turn into "repeat offenses." Apparently she was trying to ensure that she was applying sufficient discipline (as tested and determined by other DW wives) to get good results, without "over-disciplining" me.

      My wife has always been very survey / measurement / statistically oriented in her professional studies and work-practices. Pretty much a "show me the numbers" person, which can be good thing in softer sciences, like psychology.

      So, she sent me on a "quest:" I was to parse all of the stories on Aunt Kay's website, extracting specific offenses and punishments, then enter that data into an Excel spreadsheet, in effect creating a "punishment matrix" she could refer to.

      After I did this, she thought she still did not have enough examples (data) for many offenses. So, she sent me on another "quest:" Parse all of Aunt Kay's "Guest Book" entries for additional reports of offenses and punishments.

      She (eventually) got a very detailed "punishment matrix" detailing just how, and with what ranges of severity, other wives handled all sorts of different offenses. Frankly, as I looked at the overall data, I was very surprised by how strict and severe almost all of those wives were!

      My wife concluded she had been way too tolerant and "easy-going" in her duties; too lax in my discipline and punishment. So, she "upped" my own CP to the low-ends of those statistical categories; boy did it become intense when I screwed up!

      Over the next several years, as more stories were posted, and more Guest Book entries were made, she had me periodically add the new data to that "Punishment Matrix."

      (With the passage of time, that matrix has been misplaced. However, I still have a detailed text file of all of the Guest Book messages from 2001-08; about 180 "computer screens" of text, or ~110 pages if printed out.)

      Delete
    7. Donn said: “I still have a detailed text file of all of the Guest Book messages from 2001-08; about 180 "computer screens" of text, or ~110 pages if printed out.)”

      Donn
      I remember those entries, which were, I believe, precipitously removed from the DWC site –apparently because the platform that produced them folded. I also remember that quite a few of them were insightful and had lots of practical ideas as well as recorded many valuable experiences starting and maintaining DD.

      If you have them, please share them with Dan toward a goal of making them available to couples seeking information. I doubt that Tomy would have any objections to Dan adapting them and copyright may not be an issue in any case

      My guess is that many couples active in DD relationships today have not seen those text files but would benefit from doing so
      Alan

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    8. Alan, I completely agree.

      I have just left a detailed message for Dan explaining this material.

      Regarding the original "Guest Book:"

      (1) It was hosted off-site by Tripod.com. As I recall, Tripod did not so much "fail," but simply discontinued that service;

      (2) I presume that Aunt Kay or Jerry (Tomy Nash) must have expended significant time and effort removing SPAM and other "inappropriate" entries from that Guest Book; (Dan, himself, has recounted the massive amount of time he wasted in keeping his own Guest Book "cleaned up." Dan states that the massive amount of time was why he blocked all further posts to that blog.)

      (3) I believe you're right about the copyright issue. Aunt Kay and Jerry would not have a copyright on the original entries, as that couple did not write the original entries. It is also unlikely that they would they have whats called a "composite copyright" since the materials were formatted and maintained by a third party, Tripod.

      (4) It would be necessary to "clean up" most of those Guest Book entries before public access could be granted: Almost every entry had the original poster's full email address, to allow other DWC couples to reach out and form relationships. I would not want any of these DWC couples, who might have retained those original email addresses, to be in any way concerned about (or harassed) by people contacting them from 15-20 years into their futures.)

      Do you have any other thoughts on this matter?

      Delete
    9. P.S. Alan, I made one other observation that I failed to note when I originally compiled those Guest Book entries.

      A large percentage of those entries were directly from Disciplinary Wives. A much greater percentage than the Real Life Experiences that Aunt Kay posted on her website. In fact, much, MUCH higher percentages than I have ever seen on any blog site.

      Those DW's Guest Book entries certainly provide a much clearer view of the wive's perspectives!

      Delete
    10. Donn,

      Yes I recall that and I assume Aunt Kay did some vetting as she surely did with the "Real People" section. However the gender of the poster was not in all cases certain. Still, in the main I think they are authentic
      Alan

      Delete
    11. Alan, as far as I can recall, the entries in the Guest Book section weren't vetted, at least not for the poster's identity, gender, etc. Though, it's possible some were vetted in terms of Aunt Kay or someone else associated with the DWC taking down spam, objectionable content, etc. As you recall, I had a Guestbook feature on here for awhile but ultimately turned it off to new commenters because it was a spam magnet and became a total pain in the ass to monitor and manage.

      You are more trusting than I about authenticity. A decade of managing this blog has made me, unfortunately, a cynic. Just in recent memory we have:

      - "Jack" in all his manifestations (male and female)
      - "Belle" - pretending to be a female but outing himself as a male. I'm 90% sure we've had at least one other "Belle" manifestation.
      - "Helen" in multiple manifestations
      - Various "DD" couples who were almost certainly one guy adopting a "couple" persona
      - The CDD weirdo who keeps popping up every few months with his fantasies of being in a church and/or community where DD spanking wives are the norm and about being spanked on his wedding night
      - The commenter who pretends to be two commenters and lobs questions back and forth to himself

      et cetera, et cetera, et cetera

      Delete
    12. Dan, I agree it can be difficult to discern the true grain from the chaff.

      When I commented above about Aunt Kay and Jerry probably editing the Guest Book entries, it was along the lines your mention: (1) SPAM; (2) Overly sexualized comments; (3) Comments that veered to far into the BDSM realm.

      Rereading a large sample of those Guest Book entries, I must say that they almost all have the "ring of truth" to my less experience ears. It is possible Dan, with your greater experience, you could spot "tells" that I miss.

      Back on the subject of compiling and reviewing various DD / DWC / FLR literature, Dan (way back in July 7, 2008) you stated:

      "A new development in [my life] is my wife's new, and seemingly sustained, interest in reading and really thinking about Domestic Discipline. . . . She has powered through a couple of books on the subject."

      Do you remember which books these were? Do have any feeling (or your wife's feelings) as to the quality and utility of those titles?

      Delete
  19. My wife is becoming more dominant when needed. Having a bad attitude is the number one reason I get spanked. She use to just spank me but mostly aat my suggestion that appears to be changing. I woke up on the wrong side of the bed Saturday and we were going to community craft fairs all day. Before we left she ordered me to the bedroom for a spanking. She lectured me while paddling me without mercy and promised me another when we got home if I did not behave. While I managed to behave enough to avoid a second spanking. She did give me a few pats on the but while we were out and joked around a little about her warning. I don't think anyone saw her but I took notice of it and loved her openly talking to me about it
    Ward

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  20. Dan,
    Hoping your enjoying your weekend away with Anne. I too would love to see Aunt K’s manuals published. This would be a great help in assisting wives with DD. This would probably make it much easier to approach your wife with exactly what u r looking for in a DD relationship. I assume this would be layed out in a step by step guide for couples. I still find it hard to communicate my need for DD. She definitely sees a change when it does occur but we struggle with consistency. She is turned on by thrashing me and I’m do for one this week. I hope the follow through Is there.
    T

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    1. Thanks, T. I wasn't with Anne, but it was a fun, if tiring, adventure.

      I need to go through old material I have and see whether the manuals are included. Unfortunately, much of what I have is on media that I no longer have drives to open.

      Delete
    2. Dan, glad you're back.

      I know you're busy, but when you have some spare time could you clear Google's Spam Filter; I've had multiple posts sequestered there recently.

      Also, thank for investigating with Tomy Nash re Aunt Kay's publications.

      FYI: Over the weekend I myself went back into my own computer archives. In the process, I found a large file I had originally created from Aunt Kay's original "Guest Book." (Explained in greater detail above -- "September 20, 2022 at 10:51 AM".)

      Might you be interested in adding these old Guest Book entries to your own blog site? Might Tomy be interested in restoring these Guest Book entries to the revamped DWC site?

      Delete
  21. My husband has two different bottom "pats" in public. The first is soft and says, "Your ass looks cute in that outfit and I'm going to take you when we get home." The second is sharper and says "You better straighten up and behave yourself." He does both in front of many others, but not our parents.
    Cynthia Ellen

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    1. Cynthia Ellen,
      It is fascinating how nuanced a smack to the bum can be. And you know immediately without any verbal cues whether it is meant affectionately or a serious warning of impending discipline.

      My wife does this frequently, usually affectionately. Although even done for fun it sends a certain message, as in “this is mine”

      But she does deliver the affectionate smacks differently from the disciplinary ones. It’s is however a subtle difference that would take another spanko to recognize.

      The affectionate smacks are delivered more or less horizontally so her hand just makes light fleeting contact with one or both bottom cheeks. But if it’s disciplinary there is probably a bit more heft behind it and it is delivered vertically almost like she is trying to lift me into the air with it. It’s a totally different feel and I always get the message.
      Alan

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    2. CE:

      From what you describe, it sounds like your husband has the "basic attitude" to exercise the "right to control" you have extended to him.

      From your past posts, it seems like he is simply hesitant to apply sufficient force during spankings to achieve the level of "contrition" you believe you need.

      It has never been completely clear, but it kind of sounds like you husband is using his hand in OTK spankings. Have you two considered a small (12 - 14") perforated oak paddle as an alternative. Such a paddle would certainly "dial up" the effect, without any apparent increase in your husband's exertions.

      Just a thought.

      Delete
  22. Donn,
    My husband does use his hand. I have tried to hand him both a wooden spoon and my hairbrush, but he just laughs and says his hand is just fine. Which it would be if he smacked hard enough and repeated it a hundred times!
    Cynthia Ellen

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    Replies
    1. CE:

      I think I understand how hard this situation is for you; I've had similar, long-lasting periods in my life, and frankly they were truly damaging to me.

      You have repeatedly expressed, here in the blog, how you have repeatedly expressed your needs to your husband. Your only option now may be to "go nuclear."

      Maybe it would be a good idea to sit down with your husband, in a calm, non-erotic setting, and have a serious "heart to heart" with him (or possibly write him a letter). I'm not saying my own feeling match your own, but I think they are close enough that I might make perfectly clear:

      (1) I love you [husband];

      (2) I love many of the spankings I receive from you;

      (3) However, I need more intense disciplinary and and punishment spankings. I need to reach a point of true "contrition," a "catharsis" where I relinquish myself to you. It is truly a "NEED;" something that is necessary for my well-being -- for my mental health, and the health of our relationship;

      (4) I have repeatedly tried to explain this to you. I think that I have clearly explained how important this "NEED" is to me.

      (5) I do understand your hesitation, your concern for my physical well being, that you do not want to harm or injure me, but I'm a grown woman, who can decide for herself what I truly "NEED;"

      (6) I've tried to explain to you that, by not disciplining me adequately, your ARE HARMING ME. I'm sorry if you did not understand this, but this harm feels much worse to me than almost anything you could do to my butt;

      (7) In addition, you are "disrespecting me!" You are substituting and IMPOSING your judgement over my own judgement regarding my health and my "NEEDS." EVERY ADULT HAS A RIGHT TO DETERMINE THEIR OWN "NEEDS;" NO ONE ELSE CAN DO THAT FOR THEM;

      (8) Right now, the way things are, these "half-measures" are worse than if you didn't spank me at all. It is like a "perpetual tease," without the necessary follow through. Would you do such "half-measures" during sex? Would you be alright if I did such "half-measures" to you during sex?

      (9) I love you dearly and sincerely hope that we can work this out;

      (10) HOWEVER, TO GIVE US TIME TO RECONSIDER WHETHER SPANKING CAN BE ANY PART OF OUR RELATIONSHIP, I AM IMMEDIATELY "REVOKING PERMISSION AND CONSENT" FOR YOU TO SPANK ME. IT IS REVOKED FOR THE NEXT NINETY (90) DAYS. YOU WILL NOT "PAT," "SWAT," "SWIPE" OR IN ANY WAY DO ANYTHING THAT RESEMBLES A "SPANKING MOTION" ON OR TOWARD MY BUTT.

      (11) After ninety days, after careful communication and consideration, we may be able to mutually agree to reincorporate some forms of spanking into our relationship.

      (12) I love you dearly, but we cannot continue as we are. I CANNOT CONTINUE AS WE HAVE IN THE PAST.

      Well, this is truly the "[TACTICAL] NUCLEAR OPTION:" Complete revocation of "consent." (If you really want to get his attention, you can revoke it during an actual spanking, then get up and walk away, and later explain, as above.)

      Now, I do realize that I have a limited, very limited understanding of the detailed dynamics of your relationship, and what has transpired in the past. The scenario detailed above might be too harsh. However, it appears to me that you really, truly need to do something to REALLY GET YOUR HUSBANDS ATTENTION!

      We all have limited support networks and sources of validation in "This Thing We Do." Your fellow disciplined spouses should be important parts of those networks.

      Please keep us all posted as to how you are feeling; how you are emotionally dealing with any changes in your spanking situation.

      -- Donn

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    2. CE:

      Well, the previous post got caught in Google's SPAM Filter for almost a full day.

      I realized, after I posted it, that I failed to mention two other aspects that you might want to consider. (I'll cover aspect #2 in a separate post; keeping both posts shorter reduces chance that Google with temporarily "embargo" them.)

      (5b) Your husband may also be concerned about psychologically hurting you if he goes "too far" in your CP; he could also be concerned about hurting himself (guilt) if he goes to far. Part 5, above, should acknowledge these facts, anc acknowledge your own concern for him and his psychological state during an extended CP session.

      I'm not sure how this would change how you express the above elements / ideas.

      Finally, it may be too much to go the full "Nuclear Option" (#10 - 12) initially. However, it is certainly something you could tell him you are considering -- a "time-out period" for further discussions.

      (Second Post, below, deals with helping your husband better understand what is NOT "too far." Ways that he can judge when he nears, or has achieved, the levels you believe you need.)

      Delete
    3. CE:

      Have you ever talked to your husband about the physical and vocal behavior you expect you would present as you reach the cathartic level you desire? If your husband doesn't have a clear way to judge your internal state from your external state (a "mapping"), he is basically "spanking blind" -- he has no way to know when enough is enough. This "spanking blind" situation could be very stressful to him; possibly one reason he has not progressed further.

      So, have you explained to him how much / what level (during CP) you should:

      (1) Tremble, attempting to maintain control;.

      (2) Kick and struggle;

      (3) Particular verbalizations (for "not enough," "getting close" and "I'm there!")

      (4) Tears in your eyes;

      (5) Snot draining from your nose;

      (6) Etc. . . ?

      I know, since you have not yet reached the level you desire, that you really do not "truly know" the vocal and physical responses you will display. However, these are "first guestimates." After reaching the levels you need, and later explaining to your husband that you did reach those levels, he can reconsider what he observed and calibrate himself.

      (Post below offers an alternative / supplementary method to above.)

      Delete
    4. So, CE, maybe you can give your husband that small oak paddle and a shaker bottle of coins, get right up "in his face," and challenge him:

      "Hubby, you could never make me drop that bottle - NO WAY, NO HOW!"

      That might get you started to where you need to go.

      Delete
    5. Well, a couple (three?) more posts got Google Spam Filtered. They should eventually appear. Until then, the "shaker bottle" may not make much sense -- sorry.

      Delete
    6. Hint for Doms and Disciplinarians. If you get handed implements by your sub or charge, your bark may be too big for your bite. :)

      Delete
    7. (. . . cont.)

      CE:

      I believe that when new couples start out on a DD relationship, Safe Words can be valuable -- they help both partners calibrate their behavior and expectations. In fact, they can allow the disciple to progress further than she might otherwise feel comfortable doing without a "bail-out". Later, as both partners gain experience and confidence, the Safe Words can be reduced or eliminated.

      (It can also be useful and educational for a disciplinarian to practice FORCING the disciple to use her "safe word" -- forcing her to "bail-out." This can very quickly help the disciplinarian identify the other visual and vocal "cues / clues" to the disciple's status / condition / contrition.)

      (cont. . .)

      Delete
    8. (. . . cont.)

      CE:

      Finally, I thought I might mention a few ways my wife and I use Safe Words (or "Signals").

      We can each use a Safe Word whenever either of us feels it is appropriate. Our two Safe Words are:

      (1) "Yellow:" A request to talk, regardless of whatever else in going on; a way to initiate a conversation. My wife can use it at any time to "require" that we communicate; I cannot refuse such a request -- I must immediately follow her order. I can use it at any time to "request" we communicate; my wife can "temporarily defer," but NOT "refuse" my request.

      (2) "Red:" COMPLETE, EMERGENCY STOP! Something is seriously wrong that could physically damage one of us, or potentially seriously damage the relationship. We both MUST IIMEDIATELY HONOR such a signal. I trust my wife to use it appropriately. For me, my wife has set one condition: If I use it in any situation that is not truly, objectively (her judgment), an emergency, THEN ALL DD AND SEXUAL ACTIVITY BETWEEN US ENDS FOR A MINIMUM OF THREE (3) MONTHS; NO EXCEPTIONS! This provides me with a strong deterrent to not "misjudge" an emergency because my butt feels like I'm sitting on a volcano!

      It is a system that works for us. We both feel safe that anything catastrophic could be identified / communicated. My wife feels she has practically unlimited discretion to punish to appropriate levels. I do not have to worry that I might abuse the Safe Words, and can truly feel non-consensuality of my wife's control.


      (cont. . .)

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    9. Donn,
      I appreciate the lengthy advice, but your description is not me or us. I would never threaten him to get what I want. I will continue to work on him gently. The last time he spanked me I intentionally wiggled my butt excessively in his face while OTK, and while he definitely enjoyed it he also told me to settle down and gave me some real smacks to make sure I did. That made me so wet I splashed him in the face, which led to us both laughing hysterically and having amazing sex. I am going to continue this kind of teasing approach to help turn some of our sex spankings into discipline.
      Cynthia Ellen

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    10. Hi, again, CE.

      I did not mean any of what I posted to be construed as a "threat." A possible "time-out," yes, but not a threat.

      I still think that possibly using "Safe Words" or a "Shaker Bottle" as a way for your husband to be certain that he is not "going to far" might be useful. Just tell him that you would like to be in charge during one of your spankings; that you would personally like to control the intensity. Tell him that he should keep increasing the intensity until you either "Safe Word" or drop the "Rattle Bottle." Assure him that you want, and will maintain the control. Assure him that he cannot go to far, or truly hurt you, because you can stop events at any time. (Allowing him to see your "threshold limit" would be educational to future events. It would also allow him to force you to relinquish control by spanking: When you drop the bottle, you are, in effect, surrendering control back to him.)

      Just something to think about.

      Delete
    11. Again, sorry so many of my previous posts were Google Spam Filtered. What remains, above, make only partial sense.

      RE: The "Rattle Bottle" Device

      (The easiest "Rattle Bottle:" A clean / washed-out plastic "generic mustard" bottle containing 20-30 pennies or dimes. It is small enough to be held firmly by even a smaller woman; it is unbreakable; it can make a lot of noise, when either held or dropped.)

      Again, C.E., please let us all know how things develop.

      Delete
  23. My wife adores spanking me at the window.

    First time was accidental. She was preparing for the spanking, it was during a day in our saloon (a lot of wimdows without curtains) when I have realised that there are some workers repairing the home of our neighbour which could see us. I have started in panic asking her to change the place, but she smiled and decided to proceed. I was extremely embarassed, but later admitted to her that also turned on by her showing ber authoruty and being so confident. From that moment mostnof our spankings are done at the window and our neighbours can easily see it if they would look from their window at that moment. I' m too scared to look & check but my wife sometimes teases me that they are looking.

    Also when she seen some workers doing something for the neigbours it often brings her the mood for a.spanking. Then she often complains about me not doing enough around the house (repairs) and says that these guys outside for sure not get spankings by their wives. This brings me to deeply submissive mood.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I think that once wives realize how much power they have and begin exercising it, they like the idea of others knowing how they are lording it over their husbands. Some of us spanked husbands get aroused by the idea of others knowing as well. For us, career fear limited sharing. But with retirement came a sudden attraction to the open window.
      KOJ

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    2. True with the career, however now, when a lot of us works remotely, it's not always an issue. You may work in totally different country than you live, what is exactly my case.

      Delete
    3. "For us, career fear limited sharing. But with retirement came a sudden attraction to the open window."

      That seems to be how it's working out for us, too.

      Delete
  24. As a couple, we have practiced a combination of weekly maintenance spankings and occasional disciplinary spankings for the last 2 years. Most of the disciplinary spankings were the result of my drinking, which was almost all self reported. She has helped me reduce my alcohol dramatically, and the spankings have helped with the stress. Most of the time, I have been the one to initiate the spankings, either by requesting one, or by self reporting. I have been asking her be more strict, but without being specific about what that would look like. Recently, it became clear to me that what I really wanted was for her to spank me whenever she felt it would be beneficial to either of us, without me having any say in it at all. I told her that directly, and she soon acted on that suggestion. She informed me I would be getting a spanking shortly, then gave me a sound paddleing before a stressful situation, and because of it, the situation was not as stressful. We have moved into a new phase of our DD, and I now realize this is what I always longed for.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "Recently, it became clear to me that what I really wanted was for her to spank me whenever she felt it would be beneficial to either of us, without me having any say in it at all. I told her that directly, and she soon acted on that suggestion."

      Great development!

      Delete
  25. Dan, two days ago I posted on your blog two messages directed to Cynthia Ellen.

    Both messages, almost immediately, ended up on Google's Spam Receptacle. Often times, after 16-24 hours, Google disgorges such messages back into the blog.

    It has now been almost to 48 hours, with no reappearance of those two posts.

    Thus, I will attempt to repost those two messages in 4-5 smaller "chunks," and hope for the best.

    Might you be able to inspect Google's Spam Receptacle sometime before this weekend?

    Thanks, -- Donn

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Dan: Well, two out of four of those "chunks" were Spam Filtered by Google.

      I have no idea whey Google's "AI" found two posts were Spam, and two were AOK. (Basically, Googles AI must be "learning disabled," if, after four weeks of my regular posting to this blog, and you always approving any sequestered messages, Google AI STILL HASN'T LEARNED IT LESSON!)

      Thanks again for any help, -- Donn

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    2. Donn
      You are so unfair to Googles cutting edge AI capacity and industry leading technology. They have told us themselves so many times how clever and innovative they really are.
      Whatever problems we may be having with their “spam” detector must be something we are doing wrong. We should probably be deeply ashamed.

      Or maybe they are just reading our posts and thinking they are so incisive, that they must be bots. How else could we explain the chaotic, inconsistent and inane way Googles vets the authenticity of posts.

      I suppose we could speculate about whether Google cares one way or the other. But that would be silly.
      Wouldn’t it?
      Alan

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    3. Well, Alan, we all know what would happen to any of us if, after so much time and effort, we still hadn't learned our lesson:

      SPANK GOOGLE!

      Then, SPANK AGAIN!



      Delete
  26. I knew our FLR was ramping up when my wife said she was tired of asking me to do things and leaving open the possibility that I might not do her bidding. "I was asking just to be polite, especially in front of others," she said. "But you just don't get it. So from now on I am telling you what to do when, and I don't care who hears it." And that's the way it was for the rest of her lIfe. But neither of us considered this bitchiness, nor did our friends and relatives to my knowledge. She didn't give orders in a rude manner, but rather matter-of-factly. Everyone knew she was the boss and I was the happy "bossee."
    KOJ

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    Replies
    1. Ironically, since her passing I have spoken more freely with friends and relatives about our FLR, including the corporal punishment. The men say they never thought she was a bitch but rather a Domme. The women say they didn't think her a bitch because I deserved it.
      KOJ

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    2. The nuances between the male and female reactions are certainly interesting.

      Delete
    3. Hello KOJ,
      "'I was asking just to be polite, especially in front of others,' she said. 'But you just don't get it. So from now on I am telling you what to do when, and I don't care who hears it.'" - I like this. I think this is the kind of matter of fact way I would prefer for at least some others to know.

      Also, a previous comment you made: "I think that once wives realize how much power they have and begin exercising it, they like the idea of others knowing how they are lording it over their husbands." - I completely agree, depending on the wife of course. For me, I think it would be quite a thrill to openly exercise authority in front of others in a situation where people don't necessarily expect that authority to exist.

      -ZM

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  27. KOJ, sorry to hear about your wife's passing. Hope you are coping okay without her.

    This got me thinking about a very different topic and I have no idea if it has been discussed before: when DD ends because of the passing of a spouse. If it was the spanker who passed away, how does the spanked spouse remain disciplined? If the spanked spouse passed away, how does the spanker adapt to not having a spouse to spank any more?

    I assume Aunt Kay's husband is still around, but I haven't heard anything on how he is staying disciplined in her absence. How have you remained disciplined since your wife's passing?

    Regarding myself and the aforementioned military colleague, we agreed that we definitely wouldn't want to outlive our wives, in case we go off the rails.

    Another possible question from both ends raised by your post is whether more openness follows the passing of a spouse. Regarding if she predeceases me, I suppose I would like to be more open generally per se, though that would be with or without my wife still alive. Regarding if I predecease her, I don't mind if she talks about it: hopefully, she can encourage others to give it a go, given the lack of further consequences to me of people knowing about me receiving spankings: hopefully, she will advocate the DD lifestyle to both sons and daughters (only if and when they are at an appropriate age).

    Maybe not a huge number of people have already been through this (and are therefore able to speak from experience), but maybe it is an interesting hypothetical question?

    J

    ReplyDelete
  28. J,
    I also suggest Dan consider this as a topic. The question might be: Are spanked husbands undisciplined people who need discipline imposed by their wives? It would seem at first blush as if a simple yes would suffice. But in my case, and it seems among many writers here, I was very self-disciplined in some aspects of my life (work, attitude at work) but not others (chores at home, attitude toward wife, exercise, food, alcohol, flirting, etc.). So can self-discipline be selective? Is that truly possible? Don't we have it or not have it? Can it be compartmentalized?
    Or is something else at play, like we both bought into the dynamic of me as undisciplined to the point of naughtiness and her as my disciplinarian. Maybe it was all kink! Maybe me being undisciplined at home was a reason to create a power exchange that we both wanted in our marriage?
    All of these questions have been rolling around in my mind snce her passing, which is what brought me to sites like this one. And in this context I will answer what it's like to lose your spanker.
    KOJ

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I was very undisciplined (outside of the armed forces rules imposed on me) and getting married caused a sea change in my character! I suppose this speaks volumes about me! I seem to be prone to going off the rails without a firm hand on me. I am surprised I was able to get married at all, given my habits, but my wife no doubt saw what I could be with some discipline.

      Interested to hear the thoughts you say you will share on losing your spanker.

      J

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    2. I can do a topic along these lines in the next few days

      Delete
    3. KOJ said: "I was very self-disciplined in some aspects of my life (work, attitude at work) but not others (chores at home, attitude toward wife, exercise, food, alcohol, flirting, etc.)." - Are we twins? ;-) This pretty largely describes me.

      "So can self-discipline be selective? Is that truly possible? Don't we have it or not have it? Can it be compartmentalized?" - I certainly think it is possible to be self-disciplined in some things and not in others. There are at least four things that could be at play.

      1) Need - You are more likely to be "self-disciplined" if there is an actual need to be disciplined. So perhaps at work you felt more pressure to be self-disciplined, and when you were at home trying to relax, you didn't feel like it was as needed.

      2) Reward (and consistency of timeline to see rewards) - perhaps at work, you knew that if you worked very hard and were very self-disciplined, you would get a good raise at the next review. The things you mentioned that were outside the workplace mostly have longer term rewards if you are self disciplined, but immediate gratification if you aren't.

      3) Audience - at home, you had mostly your wife to impress. At work, you had many people to notice your stellar performance and to praise you.

      4) Desire - maybe you really wanted to get ahead at work, but didn't really care so much about some of the "home" things you mentioned as deeply?

      "Or is something else at play, like we both bought into the dynamic of me as undisciplined to the point of naughtiness and her as my disciplinarian. Maybe it was all kink! Maybe me being undisciplined at home was a reason to create a power exchange that we both wanted in our marriage?" - Could be, but for me at least, I can say that I would be at least as undisciplined at home if I didn't have my wife around, so I am pretty sure that while we might like the "kink" aspect of our DD relationship, my self-discipline problem is real and runs much deeper than that.

      -ZM

      Delete

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