Saturday, May 7, 2022

The Club - Meeting 398 - Others Knowing

“Karma is a tricky thing. To serve karma, one must repay good karma to others. To serve Karma well, one must sometimes deliver bad karma where it is due.” ― R. Mathias

Hello all. Welcome back to The Disciplinary Couple’s Club.  Our (more or less, though recently not really) weekly on-line gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, a Domestic Discipline relationship.  I hope you all had a great week.

Well, it was another pretty quiet week here at the Club. It got me curious about the overall state of readership.  I hadn’t looked at the blog’s stats in a while but suspected the viewership had gone down.  Sure enough, it has, by even more than I suspected.


 

While the drop was bigger than expected, I can’t say I’m entirely surprised at the trend.  I don’t think it’s accidental that the drop started near the end of 2019 and really picked up steam in the first half of 2020, right around the time of the presidential election and its aftermath. I was incensed about the state of the country and definitely let that be known.  I’m guessing that I lost more than a few red state viewers, and a few conservative commenters, as a result.

 

The trend also reflects the extent to which blogs with this kind of theme are kind of an ecosystem, driving traffic to each other.  I used to get a lot of traffic from the Strict Julie Spanks blog, but she dropped me from her blogroll in retaliation for me dropping hers when she started posting anti-vaccine stuff.  Red’s Consensual Spanking blog was also a big referrer of traffic to this blog, but his original was taken down and then he decided a couple of months ago to close down its successor.  KD’s blog ran afoul of Google’s censors and was taken down.  Given those changes in the referral base, it’s not too surprising that traffic is down.  Some of it also is probably attributable to my more lackadaisical approach to posting over the last few months.  The situation is what it is, though I do hope that people who are interested in This Thing We Do and stop by will consider commenting more.  While I love chatting with the regulars, it’s good to get some new viewpoints every once in a while.

 
This week’s post probably won’t do much to reverse the readership trend, as I don’t have much of a topic in mind. There has been zero spanking action in our household, though that could change over the weekend.  We were traveling a bit, and it seemed like one or both of us were sick through much of April. The unspanked state of my bottom definitely isn’t the result of exceptionally good behavior on my part.  As I talked about last week, I feel like things have been slipping after several months of real improvement. 

I do feel like I turned a corner a couple of weeks ago in a few areas.  I seemed to find my old exercise intensity again.  My diet improved a little.  I did some volunteering, which I kept saying I would do more of this year but somehow never quite got around to.  I started making progress on developing a writing habit beyond this blog.   

 

But, other problem areas have been going in the wrong direction. Some of them are things that Anne doesn’t seem particularly concerned about and don’t necessarily impact her, so I don’t think she will order a spanking for them. 

 

 Yet, I know I need one.  I’ve been thinking all day that I need to “man up” and ask her to do it.  We’ll see whether I still feel that way as we get closer to bedtime, which is the time at which it typically happens.

 

 

What else to talk about?  I think I may have spotted a fellow disciplined husband, or maybe just a guy with a taste for hard spankings, in the gym this week.  I walked by a guy who was discarding his wet towel and was close enough to get a good luck at his butt.  I could easily be mistaken, but I thought I saw the distinctive marks from a cane or switch.  Not fresh ones; faded, like from older pretty severe sessions.  It was subtle, but those kind of marks are pretty distinctive, right?

 

 

I also have a feeling that at least one other person now knows about me being spanked.  I’ve related here before that long ago, I told one of my close friends about that Anne spanks me for real discipline. She’s been married twice during the time we’ve been friends, and I always kind of assumed that she told one or both husbands.  I had never outright asked her, however.  A few months ago over drinks, I asked whether her current husband knows. Surprisingly, she told me that he didn’t.  I told her that it wasn’t a big deal to me if she were to tell him.  I wasn’t encouraging her to do it.  It was more like I didn’t want to impose a secret on her with her spouse and wanted her to know that I’d understand and wouldn’t be upset with her if she were to tell him at some point.

 

Well, I have a feeling that after that conversation she may have told him.  I haven’t asked yet, but we had dinner with them a few nights ago, and I felt like my friend was being more open with things like allusions to a woman we know wearing the pants and other references to female power, and I felt like her husband was watching for my reaction.  I think there was even one veiled reference to spanking though, honestly, it turned into a very long dinner and we all had several drinks; the details are little hazy. 

 

The prospect that another man may know doesn’t bother me as much as I used to think it would.  Her husband is a very friendly, good-spirited guy.  I don’t get the impression that he is particularly kinky himself, but I also don’t think he’s the type that would be judgmental of kink in others.  In fact, I think it is highly unlikely that my friend would have gotten involved with him if he wasn’t a pretty open-minded guy.

 

The situation was on my mind when I read one of ZM’s recent comments about humbling.  He said, "Now if I were to have a spanking witnessed and if I were to be around the witness immediately after, I think the post-spanking time might be quite a bit more humbling, knowing that the person just watched that happen to me." 

 

 

I assume I would be too, and I’m very sure I would be extremely self-conscious.  I think that would be magnified if it was a man.  It strikes me that our many, many discussions about witnesses here indicates that witnessed spankings hold some real fascination for many of us. But, isn’t it almost always in the context of female witnesses?  While we seem to be fascinated, even if morbidly so, by the possibility of a woman seeing us spanked, it’s almost the opposite with men.  It's downright taboo, and I don't think it's the kind of taboo that many are fascinated by, morbidly or  not.   

 

I was thinking about it while trolling through my spanking art collection for pieces to use with this post.  While I have a few (very few) examples with men witnessing spankings, it is almost always in one of two contexts: (a) two men being spanked together; or (b) a husband being spanked by a man her husband is involved with, i.e. cuckolding scenarios.  In both contexts, the other male is a participant, not a witness.  And, as I said, even those examples are a trivially small proportion of my “witnesses” art collection.

 

I’m not sure why female witnesses seem to hold such an attraction for us, even if the attraction is a kind of morbid one, while male witnesses seems to be a full-scale taboo. I'm also not sure why a spanking witnessed by a male seems especially mortifying, yet I don't care that much that a good friend's husband may know all about me being spanked.

 

As I said, I don’t have any concise topic in mind for this week, so feel free to comment on anything that strikes your interest.


63 comments:

  1. I am interested to know more details regarding the guy you saw in the gym. Can you tell us more?

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    Replies
    1. I don't think so. That was about all there was to it.

      Delete
    2. Did you have any curiosity to enquire about whether your supposition was correct?

      Delete
    3. Was I curious? Yes. To the point that I'd forget my manners and ask something like that of a stranger? No.

      Delete
  2. You mentioned that your spankings usually take place around bedtime.
    This seems like natural time to do the deed , but our experience was that it is quite the opposite as we were both often tired after the day or no longer motivated for a spanking session.
    My spankings take place during the day now , usually on weekend when we are both together more often and are more in relaxed state of mind.
    The weekend daytime is when we tend to get things done and that includes spankings!
    When I was working and she was home with the kids we often did lunchtime spankings whi h worked very well.
    Have you considered changing the time for your spankings to make them more frequent?

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    Replies
    1. You're right about the need for more flexibility around timing in order to make punishment more certain and consistent. It's not so much they we have a plan dictating that they happen around bedtime. It's more that habit and the status quo are pretty powerful forces. From the beginning we did them around 9:00 or 9:30 pm, because when we started with DD we had little kids and that was when they were in bed. Even as they got older, daytime spankings were tough because they were often around. Work schedules also pushed us toward spankings happening on the weekends. The combined result of kids and work has been that we got into a habit of spankings taking place, most often, on Saturdays around bedtime.

      Delete
    2. Scheduling can be challenge.
      We also started DD when the kids were small so spankings had to wait until they were asleep , but this didn't always work so we slotted in lunchtime sessions once the kids were in school and those were fun.
      Nowadays Saturday or Sunday afternoons seem to work best now thr best is empty.
      I suppose it is good to have a set day and time like you do as it does establish a routine.

      Delete
    3. With us, it always tended to happen last thing at night when we understood the children to be asleep (not always easy). So far, it has always worked for us.

      Delete
    4. Glen, it's surprising to me how little changed in terms of timing or frequency once we became empty nesters

      Delete
    5. Oh how true about timing and frequency. For us, the frequency definitely went down. Ironically, I am pretty sure because we are now so flexible on timing that if there is even the slightest reason to delay it (and believe me, I can ALWAYS find some reason to delay it), it gets pushed out to the next day. Before, when we had kids around, she was much more likely to take advantage of rare opportunities.

      BTW, I really prefer things like this to happen (if they must) sometime during the day, preferably in afternoon or early evening, where my wife generally prefers later at night. Neither of us like morning time for this.

      -ZM

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    6. I can identify with always finding a reason to delay. In fact, I did so just last night.

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    7. Dan dodges another bullet !

      Delete
  3. I too, a spanked male living in an 24/7 FLR, have had witnesses of both genders and had strangers view my tell-tale ass in a shower room situation. At the YMCA, I was enroute to the sauna with towel in hand, red ass showing. A few others were in the sauna as well and I could overhear snickers and comments. All finally left save me and one other fellow.
    On his way out, he paused and winked, saying I hope I enjoyed my spanking as he always enjoyed his.
    We usually maintenance spank in the early evenings but discipline spankings occur at the time and place (if possible) of the offense. Lifestyle friends often have witnessed my discipline and maintenance spankings, and I have seen theirs too.

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    1. Sounds a good situation: by accident rather than by design, you were able to be in a situation where you were able to be open about it with someone else in such a situation. Hopefully, such situations will occur more often!

      Delete
  4. It's not that you are pro Rona "vaccine" that is a turn off for some, it's that you call people that don't believe what you believe names (anti-vax, etc.) and then advocate for there silence by excluding them from the public forum. By your own admission....

    "I used to get a lot of traffic from the Strict Julie Spanks blog, but she dropped me from her blogroll in retaliation for me dropping hers when she started posting anti-vaccine stuff."

    ......you blocked her first. She didn't post anti-vaccine stuff, she posted opinions you didn't like. Canceling her, or anyone else is not a way to gain trust, a logical exchange of fact, thought, and opinion is. And there has been none of that surrounding COVID since the beginning. Very sad for all of us.
    You should browse through the data dump from Phizer that came out the same day as the Supreme Court leak. There are some good gems in there, like that fact they knew the efficacy was no where near 95%. We were lied to, and anyone that said so was canceled.
    To put a cherry on top of all this I'll point out that the FDA has recently limited the J&J vaccine to only those that can't take a mRna vaccine, due to the danger of blood clots. The same vaccine that was mandated by law just a few short weeks ago, proving exactly why folks like me refused to take it. Looks like that was a good call.
    Maybe an apology, an invitation to revisit the blog, and a commitment to leave politics out of spanking might go a long way toward reconciliation and a return of readers of the blog.

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    Replies
    1. Pardon me if I don't take advice on leaving politics out of spanking from a guy whose Blogger profile consists of the phrase "Let's Go Brandon."

      Delete
  5. I've been referring readers to your blog consistently. This post, however, came through my aggregator plugin with a weird title that looks like some sort of Blogger ID. I had to delete it and then tried to reindex it with no luck. Sorry about this week. All other posts have been referred.

    On your topic this week, I think there are two sources of humiliation involved in witnessing a spanking. If you stoically accept your punishment (which I don't. I yelp a lot), then you are perceived as strong but still female dominated. If you react to the beating, you look weak in front of another man.

    If another man just "knows" that you are spanked, the humiliation is that he knows that your wife punishes you. I think witnessing is much worse. Now, if the witness is female, then there is a sexual implication. Sure, it's humiliating to be spanked by your wife in front of her friends, but it's also sexy that they see you naked. Let's face it, despite the true disciplinary nature of DD, we are also turned on by the idea of being spanked. Right?

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    1. I wouldn't be surprised if it's some kind of Blogger issue. I've been having huge problems posting comments on this blog over the last two weeks. For some reason, I also have a really hard time posting on yours if I'm using Tor as my browser, which I usually do.

      You're right that a female witness probably does have a sexual component that may not be there with a man. Though, that could cut either way, couldn't it? As guys, don't we usually want to impress women and have them find us attractive, manly, etc.?

      Delete
    2. "As guys, don't we usually want to impress women and have them find us attractive, manly, etc.?" - Just off the top of my head, this would be my thinking on this. However, I definitely agree that a female witness does have at least some sexual component, and of course, in the end I always visualize having a female witness, so apparently what I would logically think (that I would want to impress women and have them see me as manly) doesn't seem to jive with what I seem to desire and fantasize about.

      -ZM

      Delete
    3. Dan,
      TOR isn't a good choice for blog participation. The features in it designed to protect users of the dark web also interfere with normal blog technology. I use WordPress as my CMS, but I host my blog myself in the cloud (AWS). I don't save or use visitor personal data (IP address, emails, etc.). I don't send data to Google. I have my own statistic capturing system (on a separate AWS instance). The best browsers to use for blogging are Chrome and Firefox. Firefox is my choice even though it incorrectly renders small features on my site.

      Blogger, which you use, while free is a source of data for Google. They capture everything on your blog. That's why I went my own way. I want my readers safe and comfortable. Anyway, if you know the blogs you visit, I strongly urge you to use Chrome. My blog isn't designed to support the weird shit that TOR does.

      Delete
    4. Tor is certainly an inconvenient pain in the ass a lot of the time, but when my big concern for many years was anonymity, and Tor was really the best solution for making sure whatever blogging platform I was using, and the email account attached to it, couldn't track where I was logging in from. I was also cheap and didn't want to pay for a VPN, plus many of the VPNs seemed to cause their own big problems logging into accounts like Blogger and Gmail. I still think that if your main concern is privacy and anonymity, Tor is probably your most secure option. That said, I'm not nearly as concerned about those issues as I used to be. Blogger was what I started with, because I wasn't very technical and back when I started this blog, it seemed to be by far the easiest blogging tool out there. At some point, there is a good chance I will switch to WordPress. I just haven't had the time or inclination to sit down and port everything to a whole new platform and deal with designing a whole new template for it.

      Delete
    5. Regarding Bad_boy and Dan's comments on appearing 'manly' and desirable to female spanking witnesses, I don't think the classic man-pursues-woman model is what those of us with witness fantasies are after.
      If I'm honest, it's more a 'man gets wife to indulge him with her friend' fantasy, at least for me.
      For that to happen, the qualities I want to put out there are discretion, harmlessness, openness, and being able to take a spanking!
      It's a different route to a different (but still sexual) goal.
      CrimsonKing

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    6. Hi Crimson,
      "I don't think the classic man-pursues-woman model is what those of us with witness fantasies are after." - I am not sure about the bigger picture, but certainly situationally this is true. In this case, where I am wanting one of my wife's friends as a witness, it is definitely not because I want to impress her or be desirable or manly, and I am of course not pursuing her. Outside the DD context, I guess I love to flirt (lightly) with women, and I love the positive attention, but even there it is certainly not pursuit in any way; I love my wife beyond measure.

      I agree that the qualities you listed are important if there is any hope to ever make anything like this happen, or at least the first 3. With regards to "being able to take a spanking," I agree that it is desirable, but of course I am also imagining just how much more impactful the whole thing would be if I weren't taking it so well. Being spanked in front of a witness is one thing, but being spanked to tears in front of a witness would move things to a whole different level!

      -ZM

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    7. I think we're very much in agreement. I'd consider tears, and kicking, and howling, all part of 'taking it well.'
      What you don't want to do, after all that work, is to take the first swat, jump up, and yell, "I changed my mind!"

      Delete
  6. Thanks for posting the chart. Some speculation about traffic:

    I came here by search, originally. I've noticed in the last couple of years a lot more domains dedicated to punishment spankings of wives, husbands, or both. (Some are compelling reading.) I suspect there are search results that used to net you visitors, that no longer do as often.

    Other than that, the war on individual publications and blogs continues. Individual blogs seem to focus on social media and let social media form the connections to other blogs. Attention from social media swings more wildly than steady traffic from another site that is regularly read by a faithful audience. Major social media can present an endless stream of bigger stories that keep your regular readers distracted. Not to mention so many of the stories this spring make you want to crawl back into bed or travel to a war zone with supplies rather than anything else.

    I also think you may be paying a price in traffic for not allowing obviously fake erotic stories passed off as real discipline experiences, and for prioritizing the discussion around bread-and-butter challenges real couples face, which isn't always sexy. After all, who wants to think about children being awake and being overheard by people you aren't attracted to, other than those who actually practice this lifestyle? I think this place is much better for keeping the discussion realistic. While there may be a short term traffic cost, the reputation of this community could pay off long term, especially if we get our 50 Shades of Gray moment. Someone could be writing it right now. :)

    Anyway, for me, there are two kinds of female witnesses and they match different fantasies. One is either a woman accidentally witnessing spanking or intentionally intruding on the spanking. That kind feels similar to early adolescent fantasies, such as a friend of my sister's entering my bedroom at night and peering under my covers. A man in this role is obviously unappealing to me. The second type is a woman being invited or instructed to witness the spanking by my wife. I've realized this kind of fantasy is really about my wife, not the other woman. I think the other woman in this fantasy is a safe symbol of both my wife's initiative and her subordination of me, and of our marriage (our sexual relationship) remaining intact, and, selfishly, keeping all persons compatible with my heterosexual desires. (I say selfishly because it seems possible my wife also doesn't someone incompatible with her heterosexuality present for an intimate act.)

    An exception there is an authority figure. It doesn't seem like a violation for her to bring in a man who serves as an objective authority over both of us. For example, I imagine a judge prescribing a spanking and making user it's carried out by remaining present. That scenario doesn't bother me at all. I suspect it's because I already was lesser than the judge before he saw me being spanked. My wife also was lesser than the judge, in this scenario. Whereas another married couple witnessing me getting spanked would see me degraded below the status of both the other husband and wife, assuming they had an equal marriage.

    And all that said, involving others is not a major fantasy of mine and not at all a goal to experience. I love intimacy and I crave being alone with my wife, whether we're having sex, spanking, or just around the house together. She feels similarly.

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    1. Thanks, MW. Lots of great stuff in here. Regarding social media, I do get the sense that other forms of media are definitely eclipsing blogging, and blogging seems to be become more and more passé. I'm not sure though whether any other form of social media would really work for this topic. I think Facebook groups can encourage a lot of engagement on non-sexual topics, but FB also makes it difficult to impossible to post anonymously, which doesn't work for this group.

      "While there may be a short term traffic cost, the reputation of this community could pay off long term, especially if we get our 50 Shades of Gray moment. Someone could be writing it right now. :)" I've thought more than once about trying my hand at such a book. I still may do it, though it would have to be something I was doing mainly just to do it and for love of the topic, and not to make money. When you look at the Amazon sales statistics, the F/m oriented stuff sells much, much less than comparable M/f material. A friend who is a romance writer tipped me off to some tools you can use to try to estimate actual revenues based on Amazon rankings, and I get the sense that even a relatively popular F/m-oriented book probably earns, at most, enough to pay for a decent dinner for two.

      I think you're probably on to something with your observation that the judge isn't threatening because the authority already exists. There is something that is more more threatening to the ego in being "taken down a peg" than in already being at that lower level. Though, if I change one detail--like making the other figure my mother instead of a judge--the ego threat ramps up a lot.

      I wouldn't say involving others is a major fantasy of mine, but it's not a non-fantasy or something that repels me either.

      Delete
    2. Hi MW, I am going to have to think through all you wrote about witnesses. I think you had some amazing insights in there, but it was quite a bit to unpack.

      And if you are near one end of the spectrum (not really wanting to experience having a witness or witnesses) and not really having it as a fantasy, and if Dan is somewhere in the middle, where he is at least somewhat fascinated with the idea, but not necessarily all that motivated to experience it, I think I am pretty squarely at the other end of the spectrum. It has occupied my thoughts a good share of the time in the past couple of years.

      -ZM

      Delete
    3. There is an art to sustaining traffic. The title of posts (click baiting) influences search results. BTW Google offers site owners a search results service that shows you exactly what is happening on their site with your stuff. It's fascinating.

      I'm on Twitter and a small-but-significant number of my readers come from there. A service called dlvrit.com offers a free automatic post to social media every time your post goes live. I use it.

      My traffic has been slowly growing over the years. The vast majority of my visitors are "new." I'm not sure what that means. I suspect that my data collection software is off in that respect.

      Delete
    4. Bad_boy - I think I am where you are at on the witness spectrum. My wife and I had a 'near-spanking experience' with her friend before the pandemic (we showed her our implements), but it didn't come to pass then. Since then though, I've been mildly obsessed with the thought of it!
      CrimsonKing

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    5. I don't know that I can bring myself to open a Twitter account. It's way up there on my list of services whose existence seems to have helped pretty much drive the country off an extremist cliff, and I felt that way before Musk launched his bid for it.

      Delete
    6. ZM and CK, to be clear, I'm probably not really in the middle or neutral on the issue. It definitely intrigues me. Maybe it's more "pretty interested but probably too chicken to do anything about it," rather than "mildly obsessed." :-)

      Delete
    7. HI MW, you are certainly right about Dan's sharp focus on DD, and his undying attempts to keep this blog from turning into a wasteland of unrealistic fantasies.

      I hadn't thought about the planned vs unplanned witness before, but it certainly would be a different dynamic.

      "I've realized this kind of fantasy is really about my wife, not the other woman. I think the other woman in this fantasy is a safe symbol of both my wife's initiative and her subordination of me, and of our marriage (our sexual relationship) remaining intact...." - Wow! This was a deep insight, and as I have reflected upon it, I think you are absolutely right. My witness interest (fantasy, obsession, etc... ) is still very much focused on my wife. I do have a few other fantasies that are more centered on the other woman, but in every case, she is still acting on my wife's behalf, and everything that would ostensibly happen would be non-sexual and would in no way be compromising our marriage.

      And your whole paragraph about power hierarchies was perfect and well-thought-out and explains a lot of the way I feel about different scenarios and why they feel that way.

      -ZM
      "....and, selfishly, keeping all persons compatible with my heterosexual desires. (I say selfishly because it seems possible my wife also doesn't someone incompatible with her heterosexuality present for an intimate act.)" - I hadn't thought about this at all, but certainly true. This was an excellent perspective.

      And CK,
      I am definitely at least "mildly obsessed" with thoughts of this, though I suspect that the world "mildly" makes the description less accurate for me!

      "My wife and I had a 'near-spanking experience' with her friend before the pandemic (we showed her our implements), but it didn't come to pass then." - We had something very similar earlier this year, with my wife showing the friend our implements. All this culminated with my wife punishing me while her friend was here at the house, and with her having full knowledge that I was being punished. And then shortly after that, my wife went to visit her sister in another country for a few weeks, and I have only seen the friend once since then, and that was briefly on the street when we were with other people, so nothing was said. So basically it came to a sharp head, and then nothing at all. Nada. This has left me very much thinking about it, probably much more than had anything else happened or had it been talked about openly. Right now, I think my wife is kind of cooled off to the whole witness thing (mostly she is tired of hearing about it, I think, since I think it was at least as stimulating to her as it was to me). Maybe it will move a bit more forward, perhaps by my wife saying something to me in front of the friend. Or who knows? Her friend is pretty interested in the whole thing, so maybe she will ask to see a spanking sometime, since my wife pretty much told her before that if she ever wants to just, say so. Or maybe nothing. Anyway, I am eternally grateful to my wife for making it happen. Those were by far some of the most memorable minutes of my life, and while they were terrifying, they were also thrilling. I love how much my wife cares about making my fantasies come true.

      -ZM

      Delete
  7. Submitting this comment a second time. I think Blogger ate the first one.

    Thanks for posting the chart. Some speculation about traffic:

    I came here by search, originally. I've noticed in the last couple of years a lot more domains dedicated to punishment spankings of wives, husbands, or both. (Some are compelling reading.) I suspect there are search results that used to net you visitors, that no longer do as often.

    Other than that, the war on individual publications and blogs continues. Individual blogs seem to focus on social media and let social media form the connections to other blogs. Attention from social media swings more wildly than steady traffic from another site that is regularly read by a faithful audience. Major social media can present an endless stream of bigger stories that keep your regular readers distracted. Not to mention so many of the stories this spring make you want to crawl back into bed or travel to a war zone with supplies rather than anything else.

    I also think you may be paying a price in traffic for not allowing obviously fake erotic stories passed off as real discipline experiences, and for prioritizing the discussion around bread-and-butter challenges real couples face, which isn't always sexy. After all, who wants to think about children being awake and being overheard by people you aren't attracted to, other than those who actually practice this lifestyle? I think this place is much better for keeping the discussion realistic. While there may be a short term traffic cost, the reputation of this community could pay off long term, especially if we get our 50 Shades of Gray moment. Someone could be writing it right now. :)

    Anyway, for me, there are two kinds of female witnesses and they match different fantasies. One is either a woman accidentally witnessing spanking or intentionally intruding on the spanking. That kind feels similar to early adolescent fantasies, such as a friend of my sister's entering my bedroom at night and peering under my covers. A man in this role is obviously unappealing to me. The second type is a woman being invited or instructed to witness the spanking by my wife. I've realized this kind of fantasy is really about my wife, not the other woman. I think the other woman in this fantasy is a safe symbol of both my wife's initiative and her subordination of me, and of our marriage (our sexual relationship) remaining intact, and, selfishly, keeping all persons compatible with my heterosexual desires. (I say selfishly because it seems possible my wife also doesn't want someone incompatible with her heterosexuality present for an intimate act.)

    An exception there is an authority figure. It doesn't seem like a violation for her to bring in a man who serves as an objective authority over both of us. For example, I imagine a judge prescribing a spanking and making user it's carried out by remaining present. That scenario doesn't bother me at all. I suspect it's because I already was lesser than the judge before he saw me being spanked. My wife also was lesser than the judge, in this scenario. Whereas another married couple witnessing me getting spanked would see me degraded below the status of both the other husband and wife, assuming they had an equal marriage.

    And all that said, involving others is not a major fantasy of mine and not at all a goal to experience. I love intimacy and I crave being alone with my wife, whether we're having sex, spanking, or just around the house together. She feels similarly.

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    Replies
    1. Hi MW. I'll comment more substantially later today. Just wanted to let you know I found your comments tied up in the spam filter.

      Delete
  8. And tangentially linked to others seeing or being aware is the visibility of the implements of discipline...

    I am reminded of the powerful symbolism of such implements today. We got back from a weekend away. I have been able to avoid (through acceptable behavior) any punishments for the past several weeks but my wife always packs the strap and a nasty, short black cane 'just in case'. Neither were used but since we have been back the strap has been lying on her dressing table openly. Everything else has be put away. I have to admit to feeling a degree of nervous excitement (?) when I enter the bedroom and see it there. We are on our own these days and so the likelihood of anybody seeing it are quite limited. I have not noticeably stepped out of line recently but there have been hints over the past week that I am 'overdue' a reset.

    It is however the power of the symbol that I am fascinated by - the fact that it being visible, casually, is making me think and do very carefully. I have previously suggested to her that such visibility would have this impact - I am not keen to ask her intention today just in case but it has certainly put me into an interesting frame of mind.

    I am also reminded of some of the artwork out there of the paddle hanging openly on the wall of peoples houses. I have very often thought that such visibility would act as a constant deterrent and reminder of consequences. TB.

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    1. I would guess that in most if our houses there is a hairbrush sitting out in full view s a symbol of her authority and a reminder for us.
      Having it on display may not be a deterrent in itself but I know that when she picks it up , it will not be returning to its place until it has roasted my backside.

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    2. Hi TB. It's interesting that it continues to have that "reminder" power. Before we too started leaving an implement out, I would have predicted the opposite. I thought it would be kind of like writing myself a motivational note on a whiteboard or leaving a sticky note on my bathroom mirror -- eventually it just kind of fades into the background and I don't notice it at all anymore. But, a few months ago I started leaving her black ebony brush on the bathroom counter, then she started leaving her bath brush there. Even though I see them every single day, they have *not* faded into the background and like your strap, they do continue to serve as a reminder.

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    3. Symbols can be very powerful, especially for those who are into something. I know for myself, I am very, very sensitive to any possible implement, any comment that could even be remotely tied to DD or FLR, or any anything even REMOTELY related. That is why I am pretty sure that I will never be able to determine just who might be into this by watching their interactions, because I am likely to see things that simply aren't there. Most times, a hairbrush is used for brushing hair, no matter what I think of when I see one!

      Of course, the flip side of this is that probably we could go a lot further with either leaving things sitting out in the open or making references to spanking, because most people wouldn't even notice. And the ones who are most likely to notice are also the ones who would most likely be the most open and find the whole thing interesting or exciting, rather than some bizarre activity that they must judge.

      -ZM

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    4. "I know for myself, I am very, very sensitive to any possible implement, any comment that could even be remotely tied to DD or FLR, or any anything even REMOTELY related." This is why I know I could be wrong on both the examples I gave this week, i.e. my intuition that my friend's husband may have been told about our DD lifestyle, and the guy at the gym with what seemed to be old caning or whipping marks. I may be right about one or both, but could also be completely wrong because my own interest in this area leads me to misinterpret things.

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    5. Just some further thoughts on symbolic power. The school I went to used the strap as the 'go to' form of punishment on a daily basis and so when we started our DD journey I had to get one that looked and felt like the school straps. I explained why to my wife (who doesn't really 'get' symbolic power) but even so it has become her 'go to' implement. So there is a whole heap of personal historical symbolism there. But secondly and more important, the strap, unlike the hairbrush or some other implements, has only one purpose. Its only purpose is for punishment and that (for me) gives it a unique visual and symbolic power. TB

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    6. The strap definitely does have some emotional power for me, and it may be because, as you say, it's built for only one purpose. For me, paddles have more symbolic power, and it may be for the same reason straps have that power over you -- when I was growing up, kids got paddled in school, not strapped.

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  9. Hi - long time lurker, but thought to get involved a bit more. I live in a 24/7 relationship with my partner. I get weekly maintenance spankings, get discipline and punishment spankings and we also play frequently.

    We have a cleaning person in our house that has seen me get spanked and also seen me in the corner with a red bottom from time to time. Our friend circle is very open and most of our close friends know about our relationship dymanic and we have even played with one or the other directly.

    When we go to hotels we often have implements laid out, so certainly anyone who makes up the room knows and I had hotel corner time experiences that were witnessed. I have also had to go to a massage with a relatively freshly spanked bottom as I was not allowed to cancel the appointment and earned a punishment that day (but therapist did not say anything).

    For us it is kind of exciting that others know, even though it can be a bit embarrassing for me. I hope (and think) we inspired a few people along our journey too.

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  10. As far as I know, no one like a masseuse or doctor has seen any evidence of a spanking, but I had a close call a few weeks ago when I went to a dermatologist to have a spot on my face checked and he ended up doing a full-body scan. I was "saved" by the fact it had been a couple of weeks since my last spanking.

    I do think part of me is excited by the prospect of others know, though so far not so much that I've become much more open about it. Also, I'm a little concerned that it might have the opposite effect and that the more open I become the less "naughty" and alluring the whole thing might become.

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  11. While we are on the subject of implements , have any of your wives given their 'favourite' implement a name.
    I read in a forum a while ago on this subject that a number of DD ladies do this.
    One of the names for a hairbrush was 'Betty Blister' ( aptly named but perhaps a bit too obvious. Perhaps plain 'Betty' would be sufficient ?).
    A name can come in handy as a warning , "Do you need to have another appointment with Betty ?"
    Now that is an attention getter!
    My wife has a favourite otk paddle we have affectionately named 'l'il red' (once again for obvious reasons) , but so far has only referred to it by name when she actually produces to for a spanking , "It's been a while since you've seen l'il Red !" , and like you Dan , the very sight of him is a reminder of what is to come.
    She keeps him in her dresser drawer thankfully.
    If she is going to refer to it in front of others we may need to rename him.
    Anybody else have a name for implements ?

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    1. Sorry Dan , above comment was from me. Forgot to log in to Google before posting it.

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    2. Got it. No named implements in our household. I do think it's interesting that you think of your paddle as a "him." 😉

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    3. We use the name "Husband Hurters" for spanking implements in general.

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    4. We don't have any actual named implements, though my wife has jokingly referred to one of her favorite paddles as "the ____ paddle" with the name of my ex-girlfriend (from before my wife and I got together), because my wife used it to punish me for something related to my ex-girlfriend. The named paddle idea could be kind of fun, particularly since I have unrestricted access to a laser engraver...

      -ZM

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    5. Referring to her 'l'l Red' as a him might indeed mean something ....but what?

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  12. FWIW, I think you've done the correct thing. Why would you want to support or be associated with sources of dangerous right-wing propaganda? Not worth the referrals. Of course, lying is ingrained in our culture, and we tolerate much of it with no accountability, but bottom line is that vaccines have saved thousands of lives so, thankfully, most people get that. Regarding Republicans, they've embraced the dark side. There's a war for survival going on, and polarization is the logical reality.

    I don't know what causes fluctuations in visitors, but we have had a lot of distractions recently. I know I haven't had as much time lately to read blogs much less comment on them. I've noticed, though, that female participation is less. That attracts a lot of additional interest, and fuels more conversation. I think every male into the idea of disciplinary wives and FLRs wants to hear from the woman's perspective.

    For me, everything about spanking revolves around the female. Embarrassment and humility are a huge part of it, so witnesses or sharing of information certainly raises the bar on that. I think I'm more embarrassed with a female witness, at least I was that way growing up. If punishment was going to happen, I was much more concerned with the opposite sex being around. To be humiliated in the presence of another male is not only less concerning, it's not in any way erotic to me. I think most concerning is being spanked by a male with a female witness, and the reason may be that there is no sexual component in the male-male relationship for me. At least in my hetero brain, it's a completely unambiguous act of punishment. I have similar feelings about a female spanking another female, even more so if it's not a lesbian relationship. In my mind, it should be more embarrassing for the woman being spanked because it's just punishment and not a Harlequin Romance.

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    1. Brett, I think you are right on the trade-offs. And, for the most part I wasn't so much bemoaning the loss in traffic as just noting it. Though, there is some critical mass, below which the conversation starts to suffer a lot as it's just a handful of people talking about the same thing over and over again. "Lying is ingrained in our culture, and we tolerate much of it with no accountability." That's certainly the truth. While Democrats and Republicans get upset by different things, neither camp seems to get even slightly concerned about lying anymore.

      Female participation is definitely down; like down to zero. Of course, it was never very high anyway, and some of what there seemed to be was fake, e.g. "Belle." It's a problem I suspect I can't solve. The impediments seem to be: (a) there aren't even that many women out there who are aware adult DD is a thing; (b) those who aren't aware of it aren't going to be Googling to find blogs related to it; and (c) those who are into it also may not be Googling to find blogs about because, for whatever reason, participating in these kind of blogs seems to be something the "bottoms" are interested, in, but not so much the "tops?

      Perhaps it indicates that my kink is more about both accountability and control, but while I find it more embarrassing for a male to know about it, I don't draw a strong male vs. female line when it comes to being spanked. I definitely think being spanked by a male would be embarrassing but the sexual element is wholly absent for me in that scenario. Being controlled and punished like that triggers something in me, regardless of which gender is doing the spanking.

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  13. Not sure if this comment will get through or not. I discovered this a couple of months ago (when looking for the disciplinary wives site to see if it was still going) and posted a couple of comments but they disappeared. I have been interested in the comments on witnesses. I have often thought about a female witness being present, probably a friend of my wife. The difference is that when I imagine this, the second woman is also an active participant, possibly being taught by my wife how to deliver a spanking. I haven’t noticed that element in the other comments.

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    1. We have a number of times broached the subject of the second woman being an active participant, but it is true that most of the time we talk about the second woman (or I guess also man when we consider our conversation this week) being only a witness. We have also mentioned a few times the idea of being sent by our wife to some other woman to punish us if for some reason our wife isn't able to. Now that is a scary thought!

      -ZM

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    2. That’s an intriguing thought. I think in that situation one would want to behave and take it as well as possible. I reckon it would feel like a matter of pride to reflect how well she trained you. Of course ideally, she would be able to watch it on video subsequently, then you’d better have behaved well.

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    3. Having another woman step in as your disciplinarian sure is scary....and strangely intriguing also.
      I can imagine waiting at home for her friend to arrive to administer discipline would be frightening, especially when you do not know if the discipline will be worse than your wife's.

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  14. I hope this question presently welcome. What has happened to Tomy, the husband of Aunt Kay of the the DWC, that occasionally posted here? He seems to have disappeared from the Internet.

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    1. I'm in touch with him. He's fine but decided he wanted to take a break from the whole DD scene and perhaps leave that aspect of himself behind, looking toward the future.

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    2. Thanks. The DD community is greatly indebted to him and Aunt Kay. I wish him well.

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  15. While spanking is my primary disciplinary tool, I do use others. Humbling is one of them. I've had several female guests watch me discipline husband. Some watch on a regular basis, like Best Friend.

    When I was pregnant and didn't have a lot of energy in the last trimester, I tried to use witnesses as participants. Husband and I agreed it really didn't work, so if I get pregnant again, we're going to have to think of something different when I decide the needs discipline.

    Husband's always been shy about male witnesses. He doesn't want them as guests to witness him getting disciplined. He even was shy about going to events and gatherings, but he's got used to that. In fact, something happened at one gathering where he had to do something to deal with an emergency. I'd of never thought he'd do it and he didn't either. Still, if I've scheduled a Disciplinary Session in our home, he doesn't like the idea of female guests but will live with it. If I mention a male guest, I get the safe word. I think it's got something to do with machismo but it still confuses me. He won't use the safe word and will let women see him in pretty dresses and lingerie getting a spanking but he doesn't want a man to see him like that. The women even make comments about how he lets his wife dress him up and then paddle his bare bottom but he wouldn't want a man to do that.

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    1. Hi Cecilia. There definitely does seem to be a difference, for most men, in their reactions to male versus female witnesses. I guess there could be any number of explanations, like how much of it is discipline versus how much is kink. And, if it's kink, how "hard-wired" is the recipient toward heterosexuality, versus something more fluid in terms of what turns him on.

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    2. That makes sense. I’m far more likely to fantasize a female guest than a male, and indeed have experienced that once when my wife needed some assistance due to her arm being in a sling after rotator cuff surgery. However I wanted to make a point about putting your husband in female clothes. We talked about that whole area of activity quite a number of years ago and came to the conclusion that the whole principal of dressing a male sub in female clothes - whether kink or DD - carried the inherent implication that women are inferior or subservient in some way since dressing him thus accentuated his lower status in the relationship. Since clearly that doesn’t represent either of our views, we have never gone down that road.

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    3. I've heard that point of view.

      I prefer to see it as a tool for discipline. I'm turning his maleness against him. I'm also using stereotypes, invented by his gender, to control him. I heard it's men who invented most of those pretty underthings and other underthings for women like bras. Now he can learn how it feels to not only wear those things, but spend all that time getting dressed up in them.

      I've seen it works. He's much more submissive when he's dressed. He doesn't argue, he pleads and begs.

      When it's time for discipline, I'm certainly not the one who's "subservient". After all, who's holding the spanking paddle or the tawse? Who's giving the orders? It's NOT him. If maid service is part of his penalty, he's the one in a maid dress waiting on me (or the other ladies, if there are witnesses), not the other way around.

      Besides, I like him dressed up like that. Since I'm in charge, what I like is important.

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  16. I’m certainly not suggesting that you are subservient, and I agree with your comments about the stereotypes. My wife read you comments and said two things : each to her own, and she feels that it is disrespectful to women. I guess it would be interesting to hear the two of you debate this. Ultimately, I would do as I’m told but I’m not unhappy that she feels the way she does.

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