In spite of warnings, change rarely occurs until the status quo becomes more painful than change. - Ralph Waldo Emerson
Hello all. Welcome back to The Disciplinary Couples
Club. Our weekly gathering of men and
women who are in, or interested in being in, Domestic Discipline relationships,
mainly of the Female/male variety. I
hope you had a good week.
It’s been an eventful couple of weeks for us. There was a bunch of family drama with involving some very bad decisions and bad behavior among one branch of our family. I really try not to live my life like a cliché, but with my in-laws, I fail. I’ve always had a hard time tolerating them, and it’s getting worse not better. I think sometimes my wife must have been an orphan left on the doorstep, because her normality and general sense of responsibility sticks out like a sore thumb among her immediate family.
It’s finally starting to feel a little more like spring here, but it varies day to day. With better weather coming, and more time on my hands (more on that at another time), I’m hoping Anne and I can start having some more fun and doing some traveling, especially now that we’re both fully vaccinated and the world seems to be getting a little closer to normal again. Paradoxically, with more time on my hands, I have a feeling it is going to get harder and harder to post on my previously semi-reliable weekend schedule. I’m not sure the overall frequency of posts will decrease, but weekends may be more packed with activities. So, I may start posting on whatever day I seem to have the best combination of inspiration and time.
Now, on to this week’s
discussion. It is an extension of some things that came in comments over the
last couple of weeks. For some reason, several
recent comments centered on various aspects of communication between husband
and wife regarding DD or the behavior that led up to it.
Here are a few examples:
Belle: The thing is, he is embarrassed to talk about DD, whereas I want to. But maybe it's easier for the spanker because I feel no embarrassment. He just wants me to impose the sentence and carry it out and not discuss it before or after.
Alan: We did informal debriefs after major spankings from very early and she made me talk about it and talk about all kinds of things from the effectiveness of the spanking to my feelings about it and also her thoughts and feelings and future expectations. They were designed as a kind of “after action “report and a road map forward.
Brett: I would be hugely embarrassed to talk about DD or about punishments before or after, and I can’t see myself bringing up the subject at any time. However, if she didn’t talk about it, I believe it would leave me with an empty feeling and of something left unresolved. It seems the one in charge should insist on discussing both specific issues and evaluating discipline in general.
Liz: I do appreciate the opportunity to scold and lecture that DD provides. Without the paddle, I'm bitching and nagging and he can complain about that and not change the behavior that I am nagging about. With the paddle, I'm correcting and he knows he has to listen and improve. The power of DD in changing a husband's attitude about scolding is quite extraordinary. It's one of if not the best thing about F/m DD.
Then there was Liz’s communications with Art’s co-worker, which I personally find to be an incredibly significant escalation in the communication process. I’ve always thought it would have been great if Anne had developed a relationship with someone at work who might rat me out to her, but it never happened. For a short while, I had an assistant who was pretty obviously quite kinky and, based on something she told me about her reading preferences, her kinky tastes plainly tilted toward S&M and erotic spanking. Had she been with me longer, there is some possibility that I might have confessed about my DD interests and tried to work up a process for her letting Anne know whenever she witnessed bad workplace behavior on my part. But, she was meant for bigger and better things and moved onto another role shortly after she told me about her exotic reading habits. So, I guess I will just have to live vicariously through Liz and Art.
The discussions about
communication narrowed as we got to the end of this week and began to center on
a more discrete topic, namely “warnings.”
Again, some examples.
Glenmore: I know it really resonated for me when I saw my 'offences' in writing.
I recall being surprised the list was so long and that some of them upset her so much. It wasn't long before she 'taught me to memorize that list, and those offences occur much less often these days , especially since she started with the 'warnings.’
Tomy: Indeed, those "warnings" had become very effective for me too. Often she would, if we were in public settings, subtly make a gesture on her palm indicating "that's one." It was her counting to "three," which was a definite point of no return. I didn't make a game of her getting to "two". But if she did I was very vigilant to avoid "three."
Belle: I need to start doing this. A public warning of some kind.
This culminated in Belle suggesting an actual topic:
“Dan, I am interested in warnings and a possible topic might be what kind of warnings (threats, promises) does the spanker in your relationship give, both in private and in public. How many warnings are typical for the same misbehavior? And what exactly do you hear (or say for the woman) when it is the absolute last chance and any more misbehavior means a spanking.”
So, let’s make that this week’s topic. Also, regarding the more general topic of communication and some of the examples above, I’m curious about the degree of verbal strictness—including warnings but also verbal chastisement, lecturing, etc.—you have, or would like to have, in your DD relationships. Back when Blogger had a polling feature, I had a couple of polls that centered ways in which men might want “more” of some aspect of DD – more spankings, harder spankings, more rules, etc. The one item that every participant identified as being something they wanted more of was verbal strictness. Is that the case among our current commenters? Do you men wish your wives were more vocal in holding you accountable, giving warnings, setting boundaries, etc.? For the ladies, is issuing warnings, threats, commands, etc. something you enjoy? Do you have any desire to be more verbally strict or dominant?
Of course, there is something to be said for not giving warnings, isn't there?
Have a great week.
We haven't worked out effective warnings. If I break one of the obvious, not-subject-to-interpretation rules, like forgetting to set up the coffee pot. I get a small smile and a stare. I know that means a spanking is coming. When it comes to more difficult offenses like annoying her, she will sometimes tell me to "stop." I never know if a spanking will follow. Often it doesn't. I want more explicit conversations and announcement of penalties. As it stands, I never really know until she walks into the bedroom with a paddle.
ReplyDeleteI agree that not knowing whether a spanking is coming is not ideal. The anticipation and intimidation are greater when you know it's coming, not guessing at it.
DeleteWarnings are very rare here....nearly non existent. We both drafted our rules, and they are posted. We both believe in discipline at the time of the offense and with our 24/7 situation, it is easy to accomplish that. When I break a rule or earn a spanking for any reason, she immediately gets the implement. Always nude in the house, a spanking results in an instant. Even that time at a friends home, there was no warning. She quietly led me to an adjacent room, removed the belt from my jeans and told me pants and undies off, you're getting spanked.
ReplyDeleteI can see the inverse relationship between warnings and consistency.
DeleteI didn't see that you had already made the point I make further down. You and other guys on here clearly do know what you're talking about.
DeleteWe only use DD for disrespect, rudeness & moodiness rather than for specific rules. We tried rules for this and that but neither of us felt committed whereas my often sarcastic comments were a pretty obvious candidate for correction. I get warnings fairly often, not as often as in the early days (and the spanking are slightly less frequent as I appear to be learning something!).
ReplyDeleteA warning now tends to be fairly explicit 'I think we may need to do a reset' - reset is her language for a spanking - words that will usually stop me doing/saying what is causing the issue. She will move from warning to being explicit 'We will be doing a reset ...' and then that would normally happen the next morning (for some reason she seems to prefers 1st thing in the morning for discipline sessions and particularly Friday or Saturday). She likes to be calm, to scold for several minutes and to remind me of the offenses and any warning, all whilst I am in position and very anxious for the punishment to start and be over.
The warning system, although informal, seems to work very well in that it does often change my behavior and, although I have not done any statistical analysis (!) I would guess the ratio of warning to subsequent punishments is probably about 3:1 ... TB
Unlike the situation SC and Merry describe where rules are express and don't require warnings, I can see how warnings may be more necessary where the rules or conduct are more vague or less binary, like "moodiness."
DeleteMy husband's main offense is "disrespect," which could be considered vague. But he and I are both pretty darn clear on what I mean. He has never come back with "I didn't know that was disrespectful!" He has said to me, "But I wasn't disrespecting YOU. I was talking about the female gender." Uh, get the bath brush, like I said.
DeleteYeah, while couples probably have different set points re: what they regard as disrespect, or at least actionable disrespect, I think my wife and I are both on the same page about what it is for us. Now, whether she actually does something about it is another matter entirely . . .
DeleteDan,
DeleteYou have said you understand that you need to be trained like a dog, but your wife must not feel that way or she would be much more consistent with punishment. My "puppy" is getting very consistent consequences, and his training is going quite well. (So is our "after-care").
Consistency definitely has been our #1 challenge over the years, though it also reflects the stage of life we were at through the vast majority of our DD relationship. We started when our kids were in grade school, and like probably 90% of the commenters here who have kids, we weren't open with them about that part of our relationship. For many years, it was very hard to go with immediate punishments, because kids were constantly around. Looking back, I can honestly say that I wish we had just been more open about the fact she spanked me for misbehavior. I really doubt it would have had any negative impact on the kids and might have set a positive example for young women about demanding respect, etc.
DeleteI like the way I understand it to work in Liz's family. The parents didn't discuss their DD with their kids, but they didn't try to keep them from overhearing it. All the kids got spanked, so it seemed natural to them that the parents got spanked as well. But not in front of them. Sort of "Don't ask, don't tell, but you know."
DeleteI agree that seems like a very reasonable approach.
DeleteThis is Liz.
DeleteBelle accurately characterizes my childhood. There was so much spanking in our home that it was not a big surprise to hear the unmistakable sounds from our parents' bedroom. Though it was something of a surprise the first time we heard our dad getting it. He was the head of the family, but my mom was more the head of the household since she managed it. I know she really didn't appreciate him being late to dinner, and over time we realized that resulted in a bottom-smacking. But the wonderful thing about her is that she would still greet him normally and warm up the cold dinner with no sense of anger or resentment. Then, after we went to bed, we would hear the sounds. Why I didn't adopt a similar approach with Art long ago is beyond me. I guess since I never actually saw my dad getting it, I couldn't visualize how to do it.
There was a woman who called herself Holly who used to post here, and her trajectory was somewhat similar to yours, Liz, and she made similar points about growing up in a household where mom was the disciplinarian. She said that spankings were so prevalent in her house, that dad getting spanked didn't seem like a big deal. She did think her mother spanked too often, however, so for a long time she resisted bringing spanking into her own marriage. But, her husband's behavior ended up pissing her off so much that she finally took up the strap.
DeleteDiscipline is what gives spanking the right meaning to me. However, my interests and desires are focused more on the disciplinarian than the discipline. A vital part is that she demonstrate her enthusiasm for this dynamic we’ve chosen to live. Verbal strictness is her embracing her role. It’s the expression of who she is and what she wants. To me, the words are powerful, even more powerful than the paddle - or maybe it would be more accurate to say that they are interdependent. Without the paddle, the words lack impact; without the verbal element, the punishment is just punishment. However, we only require the threat of the spanking to make the verbal strictness so effective. I would bet that the captioned images I see here and around online are most often created my men putting words into the women’s mouths because that’s what we want to hear, and it may be an outlet for some of the frustration that finding a woman who talks like that is so rare. The better she is able to articulate the psychology of DD and spanking through lecture, scolding, threat and warning, the stronger my attraction to her in that role.
ReplyDeleteI agree, especially with "A vital part is that she demonstrates her enthusiasm for this dynamic we've chosen to live". Yep, and of course the irony here is that it is precisely this key element which is more or less essential to this much-obsessed-over dynamic also makes it that much harder to attain. One can ask someone to do an act, either they will or they won't, but doing it is for the most part possible. Adopting an attitude, less so. People can put on a performance and act as though they thought and felt a certain way but that's a different thing and by its nature occasional.
DeleteAnyway that aside, the verbal strictness coupled with her belief that spankings are most certainly an appropriate remedy and a willingness to administer them when she deems necessary is closer to the heart of my interest than a spanking, no matter how hard, given by someone who doesn't relate to her spouse in the above manner. To paraphrase Brett, it's more about the disciplinarian than the discipline. And as far as verbal strictness goes, this is all even more true for scolding or making it a topic of conversation no matter how unwelcome than it is for warnings.
And I agree again with the suggestion for the popularity of captioned photographs. I've been seeing these things going around for at least 15 years, probably more like 20, and I wouldn't be surprised at all if it was more than that. It's an easy way to portray the apparently very rare woman who wants to be in that role. One who is both affectionate and dominant, maybe a little self indulgent in her strictness, and who wants a husband who is vulnerable to her.
"However, my interests and desires are focused more on the disciplinarian than the discipline." I think this is mostly true for me as well, but not entirely. Much of my need for, and attraction to, DD is centered on needing accountability. For that element, it is more or less my own guilt or need for boundaries driving the dynamic. But, part of feeling the reality of boundaries and being held accountable is the verbal strictness and control that demonstrates it is, in fact, *her* holding *me* accountable and not simply accommodating my need for discipline.
DeleteDan: “Much of my need for, and attraction to, DD is centered on needing accountability. For that element, it is more or less my own guilt or need for boundaries driving the dynamic.“
DeleteAccountability is at the heart of it, and being held accountable creates real boundaries where there are consequences on the other side. I have also done things I feel guilty about, and though I’m not sure that spanking would relieve me of it, the guilt plays a role in fulfilling the desire for this kind of accountability. For me it still all centers around Her. Without her unique energy fueling the discipline relationship, I’m just another guy who gets by without that in my life.
Jake mentioned "Captioned Photos" and the subject of them is more than just a hot button for me, it is an outrage..I call it "Image Rape". I have read accounts of the traumatic effect it sometimes has on the women.
DeleteI don't know if Dan will leave this comment available. We are of strongly different opinions about this. But there it is. Just becuase we Can and it's Easy, doesn't make it ethical, moral, or even reasonably respectful.
Tomy,
DeleteI agree, especially if it is a famous and recognizable person who never said what is being attributed to her. I don't have a problem with captions being added to actual pictures of spanking or threats of it (like a woman sitting in a chair holding a hairbrush). I think those models don't really care what comment might be attributed to them, and since they know they are spanking porn models they sort of give up their right to be protected from spanking captions.
Liz
I'm not an enthusiastic advocate of captioned photos. They were mentioned because they are a pretty good indicator of what a sizable percentage of men interested in a DD relationship want.
DeleteThat said, while they are a little rude and presumptuous, this is a long lost battle. People, and by no means am I just talking about spanking enthusiasts, are not going to stop repurposing images, audio and video of others to use for their own ends. It's just part and parcel of the culture. Attaching a caption of a scolding to photos including here even candids of strangers is on the obnoxious side but it could be worse. After all superimposing Nazi slogans over photos of Taylor Swift as though she either said them or endorsed them was a thing a few years ago.
Any sort of social mores that may have prescribed showing this kind of respect to someone else's image have largely faded away.
I’d guess the thought behind the captioned image is that it’s like a private fantasy shared within a small circle of like-minded enthusiasts, and the model or celeb never sees it. That’s the nature of this online sharing of everything we do, every thought we have these days. By we, I don’t mean me. I’ve never gotten into it. The opinion that this “image rape” is wrong makes good sense to me but, as Jake says, it’s the world in which we live.
DeleteThanks Dan for leaving my post about captioned images up. I know it must annoy you.
DeleteBrett, I really appreciate your thoughts and when you said "The opinion that this “image rape” is wrong makes good sense to me but, as Jake says, it’s the world in which we live." You indicated that kind of behavior is worthy only of a shrug, a tsk, tsk and acceptance. I obviously feel differently and know for a fact that it's not harmless and it does get seen by the people who have been co-opted that way.
I'm extremely appreciative that I have had the opportunity to speak my piece. I won't promise to never bring it up again, But I also won't become some kind of gadfly on the matter.
Peace out.
It doesn't annoy me. I try to show respect for all sorts of opinions, even when they are wrong. ;-)
DeleteBTW, you do recall the captioned pic with the woman in the bathrobe holding the hairbrush came from the DWC website?
DeleteThis could be a situation where law actually offers a practical solution (or at least compromise). If the picture or drawing is considered "in the public domain", its fair game; otherwise it's private property and should be treated as such.
DeleteAlan
I wouldn't want to see my picture with a sexual or fetish caption on it. Would you want to see a picture of your mother or sister captioned that way? I doubt that the caption creators give a thought to whether the picture is in the public domain or not.
DeleteIf I saw a picture of my mother with a spanking caption, I probably would laugh.
DeleteBut, let me ask you this. You wouldn't want to see yourself in a picture with a spanking caption, which I get. Would you like to see a picture of yourself on the internet nude or partially nude? Because some of the people who have argued vociferously here that captioning is somehow in and of itself morally wrong also have absolutely no problem looking at, or even posting, nude pictures of strangers (including young ones) without the slightest clue whether that person cares, doesn't care, or even knows the picture is out there. I don't buy the "that could be your daughter" argument, because some of the people making it have no problem looking at and even posting suggestive or nude photos of women who obviously are *somebody's* daughter but often look like one!
Then there is the, "you're violating the integrity of the artist" argument. But, again, the person making the argument has no idea whatsoever whether the photographer (who is the artist in that scenario, not the model) cares or doesn't care. Public domain is a very tricky concept, but it has gotten almost impenetrable in the internet age. My observation is that in 7 years of doing this blog, only once have I had someone bitch about posting either a photo or a drawing (it was a drawing), in which case I took it down, and then the person bitched that I took it down because what they really wanted was for it be attributed (which the could have politely said in the first exchange and I would have done it).
Then there is the argument that the caption somehow attributes views to the "model" that she doesn't actually hold. There are three issues (at least) with this one. First, the people who make it seem to think everyone viewing the picture is too dumb or too literal in their thinking to surmise that the picture is being used as a medium for some separate expression and is not really meant to depict the model's thoughts. Secondly, those same people will not have any problem with the exact same wording, displayed immediately below the picture and in quotes. So, their issue is not actually with attributing words to the model. Apparently there is some morally or ethically significant difference in the attribution that hinges on whether the quote is ON the picture or one millimeter below it. Third, some of these same folks have no problem posting non-captioned pictures of third-parties on their spanking or kink-oriented blogs and websites. But, doesn't the mere act of posting a third-party's picture in such a context suggest that they approve or want to be associated with the blog or website's content? How do you know they wouldn't object strenuously to their image or any work of theirs appearing on any adult-oriented website? Did the captioning objector get that person's permission or solicit their views before posting? Doubt it.
Alan's suggestion about the law could be helpful, but it will almost certainly lead to results that the anti-captioning faction will have a big problem with. For example, Liz made this point: "I don't have a problem with captions being added to actual pictures of spanking or threats of it (like a woman sitting in a chair holding a hairbrush). I think those models don't really care what comment might be attributed to them, and since they know they are spanking porn models they sort of give up their right to be protected from spanking captions." Copyright law would actually go in exactly the opposite direction in that context, because the fact that there is a spanking model and a spanking photographer could very well indicate that the picture was taken for commercial purposes, such as posting to a paid spanking porn website. In that context, captioning or merely re-posting such a photo would be *more* likely to violate the rights of the professional photographer and/or the party who paid for and possibly commissioned the picture. Conversely, the re-posting a celebrity's photo to a free DD-oriented website almost certainly did not deprive of the celebrity or the photographer of a competing sale. Copyright is quite clear that you are more likely to be infringing if your use somehow exploits or changes someone else's commercial work, especially if it deprives them of the right to exploit it themselves (such as posting their professional photos to a paid site).
DeleteAs for "the celebrities would have a problem with this use of their image" argument, the persons making that argument again have no idea whether it actually is true in any particular case. Plenty of celebrities seem to live and die by the adage that any publicity is good publicity. Plus, there are Tumblr and other sites that focus exclusively on celebrity captioning and that are the source of a huge volume of the captioned photos that are posted and re-posted. If celebrities really had a problem with this use of their images, the targets for lawsuits or takedown notices are right there, yet those sites are up year after year after year.
Shall we just admit that the pro and con arguments for captioning are all really little more than visceral, personal, and/or aesthetic judgments and have very little to do with law or logic?
I definitely wouldn't want a nude picture of me posted, and I get your point, Dan. If a picture of me with a F/m spanking caption wete posted it would be somewhat ironic because while I could claim an invasion of privacy I could not claim that I was misrepresented!
DeleteA question occurred to me here, and if anyone can answer it, I’d appreciate it.
DeleteIf I hire a pro model, and take a photo of her sitting in a chair looking stern or whatever, I assume I own the photo and can do with it as I please. Can I add a caption and publish it without the model’s permission or awareness of how the image is being used?
The reason I ask is that, I see two different scenarios with regard to these captioned pics. If an image is personal, stolen from a FB page or profile somewhere, or taken without the person's consent, and then posted publicly, then that to me is a harmful violation worthy of being denounced, more so if the image has been altered in any way. A commercial image, though, is not owned by the model. It’s not a personal pic. In whatever way the image is used, it’s not a reflection of the model but of the publisher. Publishing the material without the right might be a different kind of offense to me, depending on what harm is being done. Is it just a copyright technicality where the publisher is suffering no actual loss? Does the altered image put the publisher in a position where they must defend it?
Brett, copyright is a really messy area. But, in general, yes, if you take a photo of someone (professional or otherwise) you own the copyright in the photo and can do whatever you wish with it. With a professional model, that base case may be complicated by a contract between the photographer and the model, which could place all sorts of restrictions on use, alteration, distribution, etc. There also are "rights of publicity" laws that protect some parties'--usually public figures, celebrities, etc.--from certain unauthorized uses of their images for commercial purposes. As I pointed out above, copyright on its own can lead to some conclusions that seem to violate what some think of as the "right" outcome, like your distinction between a stolen personal photo and a photo of a professional model. The subject of the personal photo probably doesn't own the copyright in it at all, unless it was a "selfie," because they were the subject of the photo but not the one that took it. And, using the commercial photo is far more likely to result in some kind of valid legal claim, because someone using the professional photo without authorization may be depriving the photographer (or whomever owns the copyright in that picture) of a commercial sale or other commercial use of the picture. So, while the use of the personal photo may seem more invasive, it's also probably less actionable. This is one reason states have had to rush to put "revenge porn" statutes on the books, because nothing in copyright really prevents that kind of distribution of a personal photo.
DeleteThen, there is parody and other uses of a copyrighted work. The parody version may alter an existing work, but it falls into the category of a parody or social commentary, that use of it may be protected. One famous example was a picture of the face of Leslie Nielsen superimposed onto the picture of the body of a pregnant and nude Demi Moore, the latter having been used as the cover of a Vanity Fair edition. It was absolutely an alteration of the Demi Moore photo, but it was not actionable as a copyright infringement.
Dan, thanks for the explanation. The copyright issues are between the owner and unauthorized publisher. For one thing, I’m not a lawyer and, another, if I see something posted by a blogger, it’s not my business or problem to determine proper usage. The issues brought up by Tomy are the morality involved, and whether we blog readers should be more concerned about the potential harm caused by these kinds of captioned images. The way I see it, the images you posted look commercial to me, and as I described above, I don’t see them as a reflection of the models who posed for them. There may be copyright issues involved, but the models being hurt because someone captioned the pics and posted them on a blog about discipline seems unlikely to me. My feeling changes if the images either look personal, or were taken without the subject’s approval, and are being used without that person’s consent. Regardless of any legal opinion, I see that as a violation worthy of criticism.
DeleteTomy and Dan,
DeleteThe one fun thing about the woman coming out of the bathroom holding the hairbrush and gesturing with her other hand: Can you imagine what else she might be saying? That caption is perfect for the picture. Nothing else I can think of seems to fit. I would wonder if that picture was created as a spanking kink photo. Seems like it to me. And yes, I would spank for the toilet seat left up, but Jimmy never does that. His dad taught him well.
Belle
"Do you really think brushing my hair this way highlights my eyes?" :-)
DeleteI do agree that one could be a spanking caption applied to a photo that was, in fact, about spanking. You're right that the combination of the expression and the gesture with the other hand don't bring to mind any other likely meaning.
Danielle here:
ReplyDelete>>>? For the ladies, is issuing warnings, threats, commands, etc. something you enjoy?<<<
Oh yes! I think that may be the thing I like most about DD. My husband hasn’t always been the most attentive listener. He can also be argumentative and proud. In the old days, he couldn’t take criticism about anything without making excuses and turning it into an argument. That’s why I love the verbal power DD has given me. I always lecture and scold during a spanking. That feels as good as the spanking itself to me. I think of a good scolding as a verbal spanking, and sometimes that is all that is needed. I like the way my husband responds to warnings, threats, and commands too. There is nothing like the threat of a spanking to nip arguments in the bud and to make him pay attention. I don’t think the power of threats and warnings is based on a fear of spankings. I think just reminding him that he is subject to an embarrassing form of childhood discipline from his wife puts him into a submissive, and appropriately attentive, frame of mind. Warnings and threats in public have always been especially potent because of the heightened risk of embarrassment. I have generally been careful not to out him when giving warnings in public. Either I would make a veiled threat, or I would say the word “spanking” quietly enough not to be overheard by others. But Wayne’s fear that the warning might be overheard or understood by someone has a wonderful effect. Now that we have reached a certain age and are both retired, and are therefore not at risk of being professionally harmed if outed, I find it amusing to be less careful about public threats. For example, I think the young couple in the house on the other side of our backyard fence may recently have overheard an explicit warning I gave Wayne when he started to grumble about some work I was having him do in the garden. Wayne was embarrassed when he realized they may have been within earshot on the other side of the fence. I found it amusing and empowering.
Danielle: “I think of a good scolding as a verbal spanking, and sometimes that is all that is needed.”
DeleteI really like that terminology. Scolding is a verbal spanking. A spanking is a non-verbal scolding. If my wife has the mindset that her words should be chosen to sting, then they will likely be highly effective. I don’t completely understand the connection, but the physiological response of cheeks blushing must not be entirely coincidental.
Danielle, I think you should write a book on this subject. You have the mindset, the understanding of the psychology, and the experience. Maybe it could be a guide for domestic disciplinarians, though I’m sure the larger audience for it would be those wishing to be under that authority.
Brett wrote: >>>Danielle, I think you should write a book on this subject. You have the mindset, the understanding of the psychology, and the experience. Maybe it could be a guide for domestic disciplinarians, though I’m sure the larger audience for it would be those wishing to be under that authority.<<<
DeleteBrett, I think I have acquired an understanding of my own husband’s psychology well enough to manage a FLR that is satisfying to both of us. But I don’t think I could write a book that would apply to other couples. For example, most of the men here want DD, but not FLR, because they aren’t submissive and masochistic the same way my husband is. DD begins and ends with spanking for most of the men here, and they have no desire to submit to non-spanking forms of discipline. Men who are into pure DD, as opposed to FLR, seem to want rules that clearly define infractions for which they are to be “disciplined”, and disciplined means spanked. I don’t think I would be temperamentally suited to an arrangement like that. It would feel too constraining for me. Another consideration is that spanking is not my husband’s only kink. Our FLR also involves humiliation play in the bedroom. One of the big surprises of FLR for me was the discovery that humiliation play turns me on too. I don’t say much about that here because it goes beyond the DD focus of Dan’s blog, but I don’t think the DD aspect of our FLR is separable from other kinks. That’s why I don’t think my experience with my husband could guide other women. There is too much sexual chemistry unique to each couple.
Danielle
"There is nothing like the threat of a spanking to nip arguments in the bud and to make him pay attention. I don’t think the power of threats and warnings is based on a fear of spankings. I think just reminding him that he is subject to an embarrassing form of childhood discipline from his wife puts him into a submissive, and appropriately attentive, frame of mind." Danielle, I totally get this. I think there is something very effective, and humbling, about veiled warnings in public.
DeleteIt will be interesting to see whether her approach to FLR and DD change as retirement becomes a reality, though it's closer to reality for me than for her right now. Even once it does become real for both of us, I wonder how much it will change things. I once thought that "empty nesting" would lead to a huge uptick in her use of her DD and FLR authority, but it really didn't. It makes me wonder how much our openness, or lack thereof, has ever really been based on external factors.
Danielle, I’m thinking about a kinky relationship guide from a personal perspective that presents a case to study rather than a prescription that applies to any one idea of DD or FLR. There’s also the element of entertainment. I’m sure I would enjoy this hypothetical book you could author. In addition to what might apply to my personal needs and desires, there’s also the interest in how things work in other homes. I can imagine an audience that goes well beyond just those who want to practice a particular regime of FLR. Power exchange and sadomasochism are at the center of much popular kinkiness, so there’s a market out there. I think there’s an attraction to the fact that you are genuine in your desire. You rule in your home, so any guidance you give to others is based on being a leader. You are an authority on that subject and to whomever it might apply.
DeleteI’m just enjoying the idea here. I know that writing a book is no trivial pursuit, and if you had the desire to write one, you would do so without need for my encouragement. :)
Warnings?
ReplyDeleteThe rules were in writing from the beginning, so if he broke a rule, that was IT because Shilo signed the agreement.
Hi Merry. Very like Spanked Cowboy's approach.
DeleteFor us, a warning is something like: "uh, you broke that rule again. If you want to change it, let me know, otherwise..." followed by a grimace and a smile. It's adorable as well as thrilling that she cares enough to say something.
ReplyDeleteSpankings are delivered silently. I've described one in response to another question of Belle's.
As for what I most want, I'm not sure. Some of Dan's image macros appeal to fantasies, certainly. Realistically, I just want her to not be afraid to say out loud what's happening. You did x so you're getting a spanking. You did x and you asked me to spank you for it. Shall we take care of x now? It doesn't have to be eloquent or professional.
"Realistically, I just want her to not be afraid to say out loud what's happening. You did x so you're getting a spanking." I don't think I need/want much more than that either.
DeleteI just say, "Go get the bath brush." It's obvious what he just did or said that he agreed not to, so I don't have to describe the behavior.
DeleteThese days she uses threats and warnings very effectively to correct any poor behaviour on my part, and is not shy to do it in public , albeit she knows how to be discrete .
ReplyDeleteIt doesn't spare your blushes though , as being 'called out in front of others is quite embarrassing and sends me the message loud and clear.
She usually pre-empts her warning with A stern "Excuse me!" .
One of my worst habits that really bugs her is when I interrupt or cut her off when she is speaking , so when I do that she Will 'interrupt me ' with an
"Excuse me ! I'm speaking....didn't We just talk about that?"and she takes back the conversation I interrupted.
She doesn't always follow this up with a spanking as her verbal chastisement works so well.
I agree -- being corrected in public doesn't need to be explicit about spanking/punishment to be effective.
DeleteI don't want to embarrass my husband by how I correct or warn him in public. I am not into that at all. But there are times when he does need to be corrected or warned. That's one reason I find this week's discussion interesting.
DeleteWe find threats and warnings to be highly effective as well as arousing, especially when delivered in public.
ReplyDeleteWe have adopted the word "discussion" as a substitute for spanking when we are in public.
If I have annoyed my wife or stepped out of bounds when we are out in public, she will call me on it and tell me something along the lines of....apparently we'll need to "discuss" this when we get home, or " we we will have a "discussion" when we get get Mr.
It's embarrassing because if anyone hears it they know she's not happy with me while not knowing exactly what are "discussion" entails. I, however know exactly what is entailed in one of our "discussions" and invariable blush in embarrassment if someone is in ear shot!
"Discussion" seems like a very appropriate euphemism and shared secret.
DeleteWhen I was growing up my parents and relatives and their friends used "talking-to," as in "Do you need a good talking-to?" and everybody knew that meant a spanking. It's still in use somewhat around here. "Discussion" is about as close as you can get to "talking-to," so it may not be that much of a secret, at least in some parts of the country.
DeleteThat was from Liz. Left my name off.
DeleteHi Liz. You and I have talked a lot about how similar our upbringings seem to have been where spanking was concerned, but I really don't have any recollection of adults using any kind of vague or subtle euphemism or allusion. The threat was just kind of put out there in very unvarnished form.
DeleteI could see saying "We are going to have a discussion about this" in front of his friends. It's probably a little embarrassing, but that would not be my intent.
DeleteThe look on her face, nothing more. Once home I just quickly go to the bedroom and wait. She decides how long before she comes to the bedroom,
ReplyDeleteThis is Liz.
ReplyDeleteWhat I find really fascinating about this topic is that the “warnings” that I give my husband are mostly the exact same words that I used before DD, when they had no effect, but now they do. I attribute that to two things, both of which are vital to the change in impact. The first is that Art finally decided that his arrogance was a problem and he needed to do something about it. The second is the firm application of the paddle.
For years when Art would say something to the children (or in front of them) that I thought was unduly sarcastic or arrogant, I would say his full first name in that warning, scolding (and maybe maternal) way that wives use: “Arthur!” For years it would have absolutely no effect. He would keep right on with his sarcasm. Now I say the exact same word in the exact same tone and he stops mid-sentence and is done with sarcasm for the rest of the night. Often he apologizes as well!
It would be easy to conclude that the change is a fear of the paddle (which I do apply with considerable vigor). But I think it’s much more than that, though that is part of it. I think he really wants to improve his behavior. I also think that his request for DD has given me an authority in the marriage that I definitely did not have before. He feels more compelled to listen to me. I am sure that some wives gain this authority without spanking their husbands, but for me his request for the paddle changed everything. I think maybe you disciplined husbands don’t get enough credit for asking to be held accountable. Yes, you may be fulfilling a kink of some kind, but you also are asking your wife to exert her authority to improve your behavior, and that takes some courage. You know that once you make this request and she agrees, there likely is no going back. Even if I stopped paddling Art, I will never concede the authority I now hold in my marriage and family. I just wish I had realized years ago that I had this power, but I think my generation was maybe the last to be raised believing that women have little to no authority over men.
Back to warnings. Besides saying his name firmly, I have in the past and still use scolding phrases when saying his name doesn’t work. Such as “You need to stop talking to the children that way.” Or “You need to get your arrogance under control.” The difference is that in the past they weren’t really warnings. Warnings of what? I had no power over him, so I wasn’t really warning him. I was just expressing my opinion, which he discounted. Now, however, these same scolding sentences are implied warnings. I intend and he hears it as “you need to get your arrogance under control or I am going to paddle you.” (For us, that usually means adding to his Monday morning paddling.) Now my sentences carry considerable weight because of DD.
What has changed in my speech is that while I am paddling him, I scold him much more extensively than I ever did before. When he is bent over the desk and I am whacking his behind, I feel much more powerful and I am able to say everything I really think and feel about his arrogance. I put up with him for so long and was so angry and resentful about it. Now I am releasing some of my resentment through the paddle and through the scolding. I did not realize just how angry I was.
Some of my scolding does take the form of warnings, such as, “If you ever talk to our children that way again, you’re going to get it much worse than you are now.”
See part 2 ...
As I read through other posts this week, I realize that one thing I have not tried is to verbally scold him without the paddle. It now occurs to me that I could give him a stern lecture even when he is not bent over the desk, and see if it has the same impact as when the scolding is accompanied by the paddle. I expect he will feel embarrassed being scolded face to face, and that could be an effective deterrent.
DeleteA lot of this is new to me because in my family we got spanked without much of a scolding or any talk at all. As I have related, our parents never yelled at us. They told us what we did wrong, spanked us for it, and then it was over. Often the spanking ended with a hug, which was much appreciated. I never felt like my parents were really angry with me, just that they were applying the consequence I had earned. So scolding and warning is rather a new experience for me.
I also have not tried giving warnings like counting to three incidents of misbehavior, and I don’t think I will do that. For me, every incident of arrogance is punishable. I really don’t want to hear his sarcasm ever again. I feel like I would be going too lightly if I let him get away with it twice before applying consequences.
Those are my thoughts for now. Great topic!
Liz
When I read this over, I realize there were some warnings in my childhood, such as my mom saying, "Do I need to pull out the kitchen chair?" and the previous comment I made about a "talking-to" or even directly, "You are about to get a spanking." But much more often my mom would just grab me by the arm and pull me to the kitchen chair and turn me over her knee. We were expected to behave without warnings, and mostly I did, and when I didn't I wasn't at all surprised to be spanked for it.
DeleteLiz
"I think maybe you disciplined husbands don’t get enough credit for asking to be held accountable. Yes, you may be fulfilling a kink of some kind, but you also are asking your wife to exert her authority to improve your behavior, and that takes some courage. You know that once you make this request and she agrees, there likely is no going back." Liz, you've put your finger on why I can get angry at some commenters who assert that this is all just disguised kink. Perhaps for them it is, but not for all of us. For some, it really does involve genuine desires to improve behavior, or remorse over past behavior and a desire for penance, or both. And, what you say about "no going back" definitely resonates. Even if a couple were to try it and then give it up, I think that the act of asking to be subject to real discipline inevitably changes him in some way and, at least over time, can really change her as well. For at least some subset of people who get into this, portraying what they are doing as mere kink really trivializes it in a way that simply isn't true to the situation.
Delete"The difference is that in the past they weren’t really warnings. Warnings of what? I had no power over him, so I wasn’t really warning him." Very well put.
DeleteDan
DeleteI agree with you that DD is much more than just a “kink”. But I want to add to this the notion that kink itself ( all kinds) should not be trivialized or talked about only in hushed tones as it often is. Evolutionary scientists are now beginning to think about kink as the widespread sexual adaption it clearly is (which I define as eroticism short of or at least not exclusively focused upon sexual intercourse or masturbation). Humans have invented hundreds if not thousands of kinks (spanking is one of the commonest while foot fetish is believed to be the most common). In evolutionary terms any “adaption” as common as kink almost certainly has survival value for the species. One could argue for example: ( and this is purely hypothetical for the purposes of illustration) that the spanking fetish is an adaption that strengthens or encourages more pair bonding and consequently more babies passing on more genes. F/M DD spanking as a variant of the fetish might then have its own adaptive benefits (I will leave for the more imaginative to detail them). But this blog alone has testified week after week to the relationship benefits of DD, benefits with clear genetic implications. So kinks are more than erotic joyrides. They are part of human sexuality and anyone who says otherwise needs spanked
Alan
Alan, I agree with you about not trivializing fetishes, though from a different, maybe almost opposite perspective. I'm always doubtful of trying to explain every observed behavior as some kind of adaptive response that serves to propagate the species. But, it's more than that. I'm not someone who equates "natural" or biologically-driven with "good." Almost the opposite, in fact. I think the most interesting aspects of humanity are those that don't seem to have anything at all to do with procreation or propagating the gene pool.
DeleteIn a similar vein, I can across a fascinating essay a few weeks ago that argues that vegetarians/vegans who try to prove their diet is "good" by trying to prove that early humans were either herbivores or omnivores are almost certainly wrong from a scientific standpoint. BUT, he then goes onto argue for why veganism is "good" or "right" even though it almost certainly is NOT natural (for humans). If found the argument of ethics trumping nature incredibly interesting. https://tenderly.medium.com/veganism-isnt-natural-c8179a800666. (For the record, I am not vegan -- far from it.)
I see DD as a tool to improve my marriage. Finding the power exchange erotic was a big surprise to me. So for me, the "kink" (if it is one) came after the DD started, rather than being an impetus for it. I think that's true for Jimmy too. I would spank him just as often if it did nothing for me sexually.
DeleteFor me, it was a complicated blend. I had some attraction to spanking-oriented porn. But, it was a passing thing. The disciplinary element was something that caught my attention because I genuinely thought it might help with some behavior that I myself recognized was a problem. But, when I first discovered it on the DWC website, it was unbelievably compelling to me at a gut level, and it would be a lie to maintain that the emotional reaction didn't have a strong erotic component.
DeleteI think Jimmy had a similar experience. He tells me he only occasionally looked at spanking porn and that his suggestion that I spank him for disrespect was a spur of the moment thing. But then when I actually followed through, he found the before and after really erotic. I didn't at first, but once we got back together all the way and began having sex again, I realized it was erotic for me too. I probably was stifling that feeling like I was stifling all sexual feelings toward him while we were apart.
DeleteThat makes a lot of sense. I also think that we beat into women that if they exercise power it will be seen as "bitchy," or they have a lot of concerns about hurting him "too much." The result in both cases being that it takes a while for some women to let themselves enjoy the feeling of power.
DeleteOne thing I like about the bath brush is that I don't have to act like a bitch. I don't have to nag, I don't have to say anything at all. I just spank. I'm his disciplinarian, but I'm not a bitch. Even he would agree with that.
DeleteMy experience is that almost any kind of threat works well, both verbal and non-verbal, once I know for sure my partner is serious about disciplinary spankings. In both my relationships, that happened pretty early as the product of consistent follow-through for behaviors explicitly identified as “spankable”. That’s a psychological box that needs to get checked off, but after it has been, threats become very effective if I want to avoid a spanking-- and like many guys, I really don’t want to push it beyond that point of no return (just up to the edge). With my former girlfriend, there was usually one warning. That warning as I remember was either “that’s spankable” or “I am close” (referring to herself) or “you are close (referring to me”. That was it with her although sometimes she warned me that she was in the mood to spank me which was more a general warning to behave rather than a specific warning about some issue. My wife’s warnings are much more nonverbal like grabbing my belt and pulling it or firmly patting my bum. I think nonverbal became her default because originally her verbal warnings were misinterpreted by me. She would say things like “ your skating” or “you could get in trouble today ” and I took them to be not imminent threats and she actually did mean a spanking was imminent. Now she is a champion scolder when actually disciplining me but doesn’t spend a lot of time talking before I am already in trouble. She is still verbal in a car but there is never anything ambiguous about that and she does like to tease me in restaurants (back when we had restaurants) Probably the only time warnings don’t work is when they come too late to stop the runaway offending behavior (such as temper or drinking) or if the threat is misread or not credible (because empty threats have been made in the past. (Empty threats were for us only a problem very early). The runaway bad behavior though can still happen and it’s just something we both live with and work on. Other than that probably 90 percent of issues are resolved either by preventive spanking or warnings.
ReplyDeleteAlan
"Probably the only time warnings don’t work is when they come too late to stop the runaway offending behavior (such as temper or drinking) or if the threat is misread or not credible (because empty threats have been made in the past." We've had similar issues. Plus, the problem for us with warnings for drinking or temper is those behaviors often happened in contexts in which she wasn't there to see them.
DeleteI have mixed feelings about what Jimmy does when I'm not around. I told him not to say the C word at work, but I have no way to know if he does or not (though he says he doesn't) and I am not sure I really care. I just think that if he says it at work with his buddies he is more likely to say it at home as well. I would be upset if he said it in front of a woman, but he works with guys almost exclusively.
DeleteIf it was some major issue like drinking or temper toward someone I think I would want to know about it. But how would I unless he tells me, which he probably wouldn't. If I found out from a third-party, I am pretty sure I would address it with him. I do expect him to behave with others the way he behaves with me and if it's a big enough deal that someone else needs to tell me, then he needs to be punished for it.
This is Liz,
DeleteArt's arrogance at work affects our family, since he has been overlooked for a promotion because of his attitude toward co-workers. I definitely want to know about his work behavior, which is why I recently engaged a co-worker to report to me on request. I plan to call her later today.
I personally don't like the idea that many people have today that they can talk and act one way within a certain group of people but can talk and act completely different in another group. To me that is very inauthentic.
Liz, I agree about authenticity, and there is some old saying about the test of a person's character is whether they would act the same when no one is watching. I will admit, my character was not always consistent from context to context. I'm probably more arrogant at home than I was at work, though some at work would probably disagree. I think I probably showed more temper at work than at home, though to be fair, there also were a lot more opportunities to get pissed off at work than at home.
DeleteI'm new to DD and new to the concept of warnings. It just seems natural to me to punish immediately upon offense, and so that's what I mostly do. Since Jimmy and I live alone, I can order him to go get the bath brush at any moment.
ReplyDeleteMany of you have talked about the need for consistency of consequences, and giving warnings seems to me to take away from consistency. Jimmy knows he is getting spanked every single time he disrespects me, forgets a chore, whatever. Why would I let him off the hook with a warning?
I think the place for warnings for us is when we are out in public. Not that he is getting out of a spanking, but a warning that he can keep it from getting worse. Before the pandemic we frequently would go out drinking with a large group of friends, and Jimmy was quite prone to making misogynistic comments when he was a little buzzed. I could see a situation where he begins to make a comment and I warn him to stop, or he has made one comment and I warn him to not make another or he is going to get it even worse.
I love what Alan's wife does, grabbing her husband's belt. When we are at the bar, Jimmy is often standing up when he is telling jokes and making comments, while I am usually seated next to him. I could just reach up and yank his belt, either gently as a warning or hard, pulling him back into his seat.
I can imagine verbal warnings as well, though I wouldn't make a direct spanking threat in front of our friends. I'm not sure what I would say to him in front of others, but this discussion will probably give me some ideas.
I think I am very verbally strict with Jimmy when we are at home. I will remind him of the chores he has promised to do, for instance, and it sometimes is a kind of a threat, like "That better be done by noon."
I don't do a lot of lecturing during the spanking itself. I spank quickly and hard, it might last a minute or less so there isn't a lot of time to say anything. The bath brush is doing the talking for me! But Jimmy is talking, mostly apologizing and promising to not repeat the misbehavior. I kind of like that my big strong man can't be stoic. Whereas I am quite stoic as I punish him.
Belle
Belle, there does seem to be at least the potential for a trade-off between warnings and consistency. I see it this way - many offenses are a matter of degree or happen in stages. Wives can sometimes see bad behavior starting, and a warning may nip it in the bud.
DeleteI find myself equating DD to trying to train a dog. We have one right now that is incredibly strong-willed and has some temperament issues. Consistency with discipline and rewards works wonders in getting him to internalize the rules, but there are times I see him starting to get worked up and can cut it off with a sharp word or a quick, hard flick of the leash. Seems the same can work for husbands -- consistency is important in addressing completed offenses and significant offenses, but a warning may cut an offense off before it happens or before a small bit of bad behavior escalates.
Belle makes a strong point that going from the offense to punishment without any warning would establish consistency expectations with little or no ambiguity. Do it and your pants come down -- nothing unclear about that. But to Dan’s points there can be subtle gradations of bad behavior and in my experience, women often recognize warning signs of impending bad behavior before males do. In those cases, a warning (or threat) of some kind can and has for us stopped the train before it could leave the station –to the benefit of both of us. I think the balance is using warnings strategically – employ them when they really help manage behavior but don’t let a guy come to think he will always get a warning before he is punished. Keep us guessing.
DeleteAlan
I agree that warnings are appropriate BEFORE the misbehavior is completed so that what actually happens really doesn't qualify as misbehavior. Then I would not spank. Once the naughty act is completed, however, the husband needs to be punished, in my view. A warning after misbehavior could be to try to help my husband not misbehave again, but he is going to get what he is due for the completed offense, and as soon as possible.
DeleteI agree with Dan that training my husband is somewhat like training a puppy. That might seem condescending to males (even though a male brought up the metaphor here), but this exact analogy has often come up in conversations with my girlfriends (who also use rewards and punishments of various kinds, though not spanking).
In your scenario, Dad, do you see a "quick, hard flick of the leash" as a warning? Because it seems to me that it is a quick hard punishment, not a warning.
Uh, that was NOT a Freudian slip to call you "Dad," Dan ...
DeleteAs Freud said, "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar." :-)
DeleteTo clarify, by "flick," I didn't mean whacking the dog with the leash. I meant flicking or snapping it with my hand as we are continuing to walk, such that it ripples up and gets his attention. Or, a sharp, quick tug on the leash to get him to focus on me instead of on whatever he is about to go after. Basically, something to get his attention and pull it away from what he is about to do to get himself in trouble.
OK, well that is a warning, a lot like me grabbing Jimmy by the belt (as I now plan to do). Someone should write a book: "How to Train Your Husband Just Like You Train Your Puppy."
DeleteDid Freud really say that? Doesn't sound like Dr. Fixation ...
I can see many situations where a warning would be the appropriate message, but it depends on what kinds of issues are requiring discipline and how a disciplinarian wants to handle them. A few examples off the top of my head… The wife sees a negative attitude developing due to stress or disappointment, and before allowing it to get too far, issues a warning or has a talk about it. The husband is in the process of trying to correct a known behavior problem, the circumstances that trigger or set the stage for that misbehavior are upcoming. There’s a failure of some kind that is not normally an issue and, as an isolated incident, in her judgment, a warning is enough to keep things in check. In a discussion where opinions differ, she may be able to keep things on the respectful level she demands before he forgets who he’s talking to.
DeleteThat describes the kind of dynamic that appeals to me. She likes the role of authority where she can exert her control through verbal exchange. She is skilled at this form of expression, and with words she is able to establish and maintain a convincing DD dynamic without a constant and overbearing demonstration of physical consequences. I prefer conditions where she’s reluctant to spank, and uses it more as a last resort or for serious issues. DD is a set of conditions under which to live, and it lives and breathes through verbal communication. That’s just my idea of what makes good and reasonable discipline, but each couple must decide what works best for them.
I get this and how it works for some, but I don't think it would work for us for many reasons.
Delete1. I'm not very forceful verbally. I just never have been.
2. I would feel like I was nagging and being a bitch.
3. I don't think it would have much effect on my husband. it hasn't in the past.
4. Spanking establishes my authority much better.
Belle
Truth is, I am 5-2 and 105 and I have a little girl-sounding voice. Men (including my husband until I took up the paddle) tend not to take me too seriously.
DeleteVoice is a big deal. I'm not a big guy, but I have a pretty deep voice that conveys authority. I've counseled junior members of my profession to really work on deepening their voice, eliminate fluff, filler words ("like", "uh", "you know") and use short, direct sentences. People can't fix being short, but you can fix having a weak communication style
DeleteBelle said she liked that Jimmy was not the stoic type about spanking. Aunt Kay was the same way. She completely preferred it that I am very reactive and freakin desperate for a spanking to end almost immediately. Oh yes, she liked that aspect.
DeleteSince there was a time when we went to a lot of spanking-oriented parties, and she was kind of a celebrity, so a lot of guys really wanted to be spanked by her. She told me that if a guy was stoic and strove to suppress his reactions it felt almost boring to her. But beneath everything, her spanking them was out of generosity and probably a bit of social obligation.
Yeah, I've never quite understood the wives who insist the husband needs to take a spanking stoically. I do tend to be that way and to "take it like a man," but I honestly don't see that as a good thing.
DeleteBelle: “4. Spanking establishes my authority much better.”
DeleteSpanking does establish the authority. It’s at the center of discipline for me. That’s why her smaller physical size and strength are no disadvantage for her. It’s why she can talk calmly and quietly, with no special quality in the tone of her voice, and it’s best to listen carefully to her every word. It’s why, when she warns, it’s not only humbling, the taking of her time to explain in order to prevent a need for punishment should be appreciated. I believe that would be effective for me.
This is Liz,
DeleteWarnings, now that they are backed up with the paddle, work very well with Art. It's much better to nip his behavior in the bud than to let it go and punish it later. The less I paddle him, the better. I am fine with warnings replacing punishment, as long as the warnings are adhered to as well as the punishment is.
“Spanking establishes my authority much better”
DeleteBelle’s comment is really interesting as is Brett’s agreement with it. Both are saying that authority comes from spanking or spanking establishes it.I agree that being spanked certainly reinforces my wife’s authority. But to me her authority is broader than just administering discipline. That’s a huge part of it, but her authority really comes from me giving her (offering really) the power (and responsibility) to command obedience and discipline misbehavior in our relationship. Spanking is a major way she exercises her authority but not the source of that authority. Maybe I am making a distinction here without a difference. But the former girlfriend who introduced me to DD left a strong impression on me by her strong reaction to anything I did or said that she thought “challenged” her authority. My wife is similar although maybe a little less concerned about challenges to her authority. Maybe another reason I resist equating spanking with authority is the actual inverse relationship we have experienced between administering spankings and exercising authority. I get only a fraction of the spankings I got when we first got together, but her authority now is much stronger than when we began DD. I would guess this is most DD couples experience – less spanking and the exercise of more authority as time together increases
Alan
Having authority and exercising it are two different things, indeed, but for me spanking is the required ingredient. My attraction to authority as it relates to DD comes from real parental authority but, of course, with DD, I have to grant the authority, and it will exist only as long as I allow it. I’m thankful it works that way, while another part of me is let down by the fact that the power and right she has isn’t an authority she possesses beyond my control. Regardless of the consensual nature of it, knowing she can use spanking as discipline is what makes DD exciting to me because, the way I’m wired, I believe the threat of it would be effective. The verbal strictness and warnings derive power from her ability to exercise the authority she demands and that I allow. Without spanking as a threat in the equation, it’s not going to be DD for me, but rather like any relationship where, if something needs to be corrected, we just have to work it out through plain old boring conventional negotiation. :)
Delete"Did Freud really say that? Doesn't sound like Dr. Fixation ..."
ReplyDeleteIt's doubtful.
A more credible version of this is "sometimes a banana is just a banana, Anna" – And John Belushi definitely said it while playing Freud to Laraine Newman on Saturday Night Live (1975). Freud may or may not have uttered the famous cigar quote but its origins are not certain and may not have been Freud
Alan
I give my husband plenty of warnings. My go to phrase is "you know, you're pressing your luck. Stop now or we're going to discuss it during discipline." My husband usually behaves. That's why I usually use a cane. It makes the point about any bad behavior.
ReplyDeleteCarol H.
If my husband says (again) that women are the worst drivers in the world, I could:
ReplyDeleteA. Warn him that he is making a sexist comment.
B. Cite insurance company statistics that prove him wrong.
C. Paddle his ass so he knows not to say that again.
It's pretty obvious which is the best strategy for my marriage.
Is it "B"?
ReplyDeleteI know you need C, Tomy ...
DeleteMaybe it should be "D," all of the above ...
DeleteI will admit that my "unique humor" sometimes resulted in "C". I would have sworn I was being funny until I got re-educated.
DeleteDan asked "BTW, you do recall the captioned pic with the woman in the bathrobe holding the hairbrush came from the DWC website?"
ReplyDeleteI did recognize it and I have matured and evolved a great deal since then. Also never had read accounts by any of the women whose photos had been used back then.
I'm not trying to make others think like me. But I am trying to raise some awareness.
Deletehttps://news.yahoo.com/women-confront-creepy-alleged-airport-190239398.html
Dan,
ReplyDeleteYou mentioned you got spanked last week for the first time in a long time. Maybe the whys and wherefores of that incident could be extrapolated into a topic. Maybe something specific, or maybe just the most recent punishment received by or given by each reader, and what they learned/gained from it or what surprised them about it.
Liz