Saturday, February 23, 2019

The Club - Meeting 286 - How Has Discipline Changed the Disciplinarian?


“Lead by example. Women often wait for permission instead of acting, and I try to encourage bold action.” - Belinda Johnson

Hello all.  Welcome back to the Disciplinary Couples Club.  Our weekly gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, Domestic Discipline relationships.  I hope you had a good week.

Mine was a marginal improvement on the week before.  Work is still pretty overwhelming, with too much work to keep up with.  But, unlike the week before when I felt like things were so overwhelming that failing to hit my own goals was really not my fault, this week as I got on top of things more and felt more in control, failing to hit the agreed-upon goals became something I am both responsible and accountable for.  Which is likely to be hard on my ass, literally, which leads me to update everyone on how things played out last week.   

After reading that blog entry, Anne decided that she was going to let me off the hook, but with one big caveat – it was not blanket forgiveness but, rather, “double or nothing.”  Screw up this week, and it would be much worse.  I haven’t tallied up yet what exactly that means, but the net-net is that while my behavior was better than the week before, the spanking will probably be worse.Which, I'm not looking forward to, but I did ask her to play this "coaching" role. Her practicality and down to earth wisdom were on prominent display with this Solomon-like approach to giving me a break while keeping up the level of control and maintaining reasonable boundaries.

We had a good discussion last week.  Comments on these “origin” themes so often illustrate the diversity of paths that lead people to this lifestyle, and the reactions of the respective parties are fascinating.  In a majority of cases, it is the men who put the ball in motion.  But, then there are situations like Alan’s, in which the parties seem to be almost co-instigators.  And, while none popped up on this round, there have been a few female commenters who played the lead role in initiating the DD relationship.  There was, for example, this from “Holly,” whose father was spanked by her mather,  and she later “imposed” such a relationship on her not-so-unwilling husband:

“I knew it was real from the first spanking I administered because I knew men can be managed with a strap if a woman is determined. I had also suspected for a while my husband wanted this. Our dating relationship really became serious when he found out my father was punished. He never directly asked me to take control but I was certain he would accept it, and I was right since I received no resistance when I told him what was coming. Also, the way he stripped and presented his ass to me on command convinced me I was right.”

Holly, if you’re out there, would love to have you back as a commenter, along with Marisa and others who have dropped out along the way.

While Holly may be the exception to the rule, our wives’ reactions do run the gamut from downright enthusiastic, to perplexed but tenuously cooperative, to initially repulsed.  While the tales of men who were rejected initially do suggest that some caution is in order, I still think in the grand scheme of things the prevailing lesson here is “If you don’t ask, you don’t get.”

Some of you probably noted that Anne did not take me up on my “hint-hint” that she should chime in with her recollection of our origin story.  One explanation for that, and for her ongoing silence, is she just doesn’t seem very interested in participating (yet) as a commenter, though she has become a regular reader.  (On the first day this one was posted, she commented that Joe2’s initial rejection was “heartbreaking.”)  K.D. has said that his Rosa is much the same; despite a genuine and enthusiastic interest in participating in DD in the real world, she seems to have little or no interest in talking about it in the virtual one.  But, in this case Anne’s decision not to give her side of our story is more particular than a general lack of interest in participating.  Instead, surprisingly, she just doesn’t remember the whole conversation in which I initiated things.  She does remember the subsequent conversation in which she told me buy a hairbrush, and she does remember me bringing one home to her that night. But, she really doesn’t recall the preceding conversation in which I put the whole thing in motion.  Her summary of the poor state of her memory is interesting: “Well, I guess I must not have thought it was that weird if I don’t remember my reaction to you suggesting it.”

On to this week’s topic. It is, once again, a suggestion from Elizabeth, though I’ve had this one on my own list of potential topics for a while.  Elizabeth asked:

“How has the disciplinary wife changed since she began wielding the paddle? (This could be answered by either spouse or both).” She followed up with, “My point is that holding him accountable has improved my ability to hold myself accountable.”




Let’s follow up on those, including both the broader and narrower versions of her question. First, and broadly, how have our Disciplinary Wives changed as a result of taking up the paddle?  Has she gained confidence?  Become more decisive?  Perhaps become more sexually dominant?  All of the above?

And, what about leading by example and being accountable as leader?  Has being the disciplinarian resulted in the wife stepping up her own game?  Does she walk her talk?  For example, if he gets paddled for being a slob, does she generally keep her own stuff organized and in place?  I’ve always said that being a good leader is hard work, and part of that is the challenge of leading by example.

So, tell us about how the Disciplinarian has changed in any respect as a result of the disciplinary relationship.

35 comments:

  1. Morning all. I've gone from being a religious "race here first thing every Sunday AM to see the topic"...to becoming more sporadic reader.....life's gotten crazy. Though I always do catch up w older weeks eventually. I don't know if people notice comments to prior weeks once the new is out......i just read last week and commented it was one of the best in my opinion in YEARS. Some of you have heard me comment (more than once) in the past that it's so great to hear from those couples that have finally "gotten there" about the journey and amount of time it can take. And as Dan opened his comments today about responses to last weeks..."....our wives’ reactions do run the gamut from downright enthusiastic, to perplexed but tenuously cooperative, to initially repulsed." I'm anxious to hear the other side now of how the wives have changed as a result.

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    1. Hi Darren. I agree on the quality of last week's discussion, and it's not just the practicality of the thoughts on DD. There has just been a lot of wit and wisdom on display lately. Even the quips have been on a roll lately. I loved Elizabeth's tying together sorority initiation rites and DD with, "After all, an initiation rite must be meaningful. Sort of like punishment for a husband. ..."

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  2. Hi Dan
    Another great topic. I hope many of our female members will comment. With me there was relatively little time before that first spanking and so it is difficult to say that either women changed or how. But looking for a common denominator I would settle on "empowered" to describe what change I saw. My wife's answer to this is that she was now on the "right side of the paddle" and that felt very "natural" to her. With my former girlfriend it seemed to bring out her innate sense of being in control as well as some maternal feelings that she liked and didn't necessarily express outside of the disciplinary relationship. I remember vividly one day early in our relationship she had put me in the corner prior to a spanking. Calling me to come out and go to her where she was sitting with a brush there must have been something in my attitude that she said "Alan, you act just like a little boy when I am punishing you - and she was smiling in contentment about that. I think it made her feel more in charge I remember also thinking ( but never saying to her)well what do you expect when I am standing bare bum in front of a lady with a hairbrush in her hand she plans to use on me. BTW, your second illustration in the text above almost perfectly captures a moment of exquisite excitement and trepidation standing in front of a woman about to spank me with my shorts around my ankles and her forcing eye contact while scolding. It has happened to me many times and it puts me in a state of absolute submission and obedience. It is really overwhelming.
    Alan

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    1. Hi Alan. Many of your comments ring true to our relationship as well. While it is a more recent phenomenon, my wife has been expressing more maternally-oriented thoughts about all this, and has said that she does think of me more often these days as a little boy who needs to be kept in line.

      Interestingly, in many years of this, I don't think I have ever presented myself to my wife with shorts or pants around my ankles. She always has me get naked and wait for her.

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    2. No comment on this week's topic, but I agree with Alan about the second illustration. The depantsing of men about to be disciplined are some of the most evocative of all spanking depictions. It's a moment that really embodies the woman's dominance and control and the man's exposure and vulnerability. Many times the man looks completely demoralized, and understandably so.

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  3. This is Elizabeth. I think I have changed in at least three ways (and there may be more):

    1. I have gotten much better at the behaviors for which I punish my husband (such as speeding, being polite, doing housework on time, picking up after myself).

    2. I have gotten much better at enforcing the items for which we have agreed he should be punished. For instance, I don't let his socks lie on the floor for three days hoping he will pick them up. I ORDER him to pick him up and tell him to put it on his list for Friday punishment.

    3. I have gotten much better at holding myself accountable for issues which have nothing to do with our DD, such as my weight.

    I will address each of things in more detail, either in this post or a subsequent one. But the basic improvement I have seen in myself is this: How can I punish him for self-improvement behaviors I am not doing myself? Suddenly by wielding the paddle I became a role model. How can I spank him for speeding if I speed? That would be the ultimate hypocrisy. Sure, I could get away with it because we have no accountability established for me, but I would FEEL bad about it. I think it would be almost impossible to paddle him for speeding if I had just been speeding that day. It would ruin the DD for me and likely force me to confess. Maybe I would let him off because I had misbehaved too. There are just so many things wrong with it!
    So what happened is that the behaviors he wanted to improve also became behaviors for me to improve -- something I had never thought would happen.
    Now, I never had a problem with speeding -- never gotten a ticket in my life -- but even so I stopped going 5-10 over because I just couldn't spank him for it and do it myself.

    2. I have gotten much better at enforcing the items for which we have agreed he should be punished. Like many disciplinary wives, I tended to let things go until they really started aggravating me. Which is exactly the wrong way to hold a husband accountable. So he misses the dishes three days in a row and then I punish him the fourth day? That causes nothing but confusion in his mind. So I got much better at recognizing when he had broken a rule and reminding him to put it on his Friday list. I even began taking pride in always seeing when he did not follow one of our rules. And I even began commenting in public, like when he was drinking at a party.
    He noticed it ... and loves it! Even some of our friends and relatives began noticing that I was more assertive. One girl-friend related that funny line that has been going around: "Your husband is either the perfect gentleman ... or he's totally pussy-whipped." To which my reply was, "Does it matter as long as his behavior is so good?"
    Now we don't argue about things like socks on the floor. I point it out, he picks them up, he adds it to his list, and I redden his fanny for it on Friday. Simple!


    3. I have gotten much better at holding myself accountable for issues which have nothing to do with our DD, such as my weight. This is the most fascinating change, and the most exciting. By holding him strictly accountable, I have been able to improve my own accountability for issues I have always wanted to change. I always had trouble with my weight. I would notice while paddling him on Friday evenings that I would be thinking about all the ways I did not stick to my weight plan during the previous week. Almost as if I were mentally punishing myself! I began to do better, and began to hold myself accountable on Fridays just like I was holding him accountable, though he knew nothing about it.
    And I lost 50 pounds! Though I am still not where those weight charts say I should be, I feel a lot healthier and a lot better about how I look.
    And it is not just weight loss. I have made changes in a number of areas.

    These are benefits of DD that I never expected -- benefits to ME! Not just to him.

    I am grateful to my husband for asking me to punish him!
    Elizabeth

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    1. Elizabeth, this is really, really great stuff. I assumed some of the wives would have experienced your first point. I probably should have thought about the second. But, I'm not sure the third would have ever occurred to me as a possible side-effect of DD. (And, by the way, congratulations on the 50 lb. weight loss. That is a fantastic accomplishment."

      While I know I would not like it in the moment, I suspect that your second change is the one that would be the most profound change for us if it were to play out for us as has for you. I admit that when she is especially diligent in enforcing the rules and ordering me to do something (like picking up socks in Frank's case, cleaning up the kitchen in mine), I get resentful at the time. It rubs my ego the wrong way, and often interrupts something else I am doing. But, it is precisely because it forces me to address things in a way that irritates me at the time that the boundary feels real. And, by staying on me on the "small" things, I hopefully get more responsible on the big ones. It is like the "broken glass," theory of policing. When you let the small things slide, standards slip, and it becomes a vicious circle. But, enforce the small things, and that circle reverses.

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  4. June 1st will be 6 years since I first spanked Shilo. On March 14,we will have been married 5 1/2 years.

    As I have mentioned in the past, Shilo approached me and asked that I take on a more disciplinary role with him.

    His biggest issues were smoking and masturbating to the point that he had no desire for sex in our marriage.

    I will say that the discipline worked on both accounts, and his mouthing off was also "cured," so him being spanked has been a rare occasion at best in the past few years.

    Add to that my previous health issues, and now his cancer, and his days of receiving discipline are a thing of the past.

    I always enjoyed spanking Shilo, and my chronic major depression was often lifted after spanking him. I became more self-assured as a result.

    Because he genuinely wanted to improve in the areas mentioned above, it made him a better husband, and me a better wife. I never allowed him to slide back into those habits, and he learned that I would be there to assist, even if that included a caring, paddling, or both.

    It brought us closer together, and I have no regrets when it comes to being a disciplinary wife.

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  5. Merry,
    Frank and I wish you and Shilo all the best as you deal with these health issues.
    Elizabeth

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    1. Thank you Elizabeth.

      Shilo's cancer has spread to the lymph system. We just found out this past Friday.

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    2. Merry, I’m really sorry to hear that.

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    3. Me,too. Prayers for you both.
      Elizabeth

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    4. Merry,

      I am holding your grief and fear in my heart with a great deal of love.

      Tomy

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  6. To be honest, Rosa doesn't seem any different. I think it's because before we did this she was forced into pretending to live like everyone else and in that regard was 'different' than who she really was. Once able to occupy her current role she just let who she always was inside.....out. But other than that I can't say it made her any more or less 'anything' even over time. And I think the times our DD stumbles or halts also shows she is still who she always was, confident only to a degree that changes with circumstances.

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    1. That all makes perfect sense. I've never been one of those people who think people don't change, but you make a good point that sometimes people are changing into more of who they have always really been.

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  7. This is Frank. I would say that Elizabeth has changed in many ways. Mostly she has gained confidence and a sense of authority. She used to be somewhat shy and reserved. No more! Here is a partial list:
    1. She swings the paddle much harder than she used to. There is absolutely no question who is in charge on Friday nights.
    2. She scolds with much more authority, and not just on Fridays, either. She may scold me for a broken rule anytime when we are in private.
    3. She will politely bring up a broken rule in public. Particularly if it is drinking. Everyone around us knows she is cutting me off.
    4. She is much more assertive about me acting like a gentleman. When we approach a restaurant door, she will wait for me to open it. If I forget, I get The Look.
    5. She has significantly improved her appearance. Lost weight, dresses classier, hair and nails done. Like a high-class 50s housewife.
    6. She is much more interested in family finances and decisions she used to leave to me. Now we decide them together.
    7. Her voice has gotten louder. She used to talk like a soft-spoken girl, even at 50. Now she speaks like a confident woman. Not like a B, mind you. Like a woman of confidence.

    Do I think all this is because of DD? I don't begin to know. But she has made all of these changes after the age of 50 ... and after we started DD. So to me they aren't because of maturity or they would have occurred much earlier.

    You put a paddle in a woman's hand and you better be ready for a new woman! And I love this new powerful woman!
    Frank

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    1. Hi Frank, while I agree that correlation doesn't equal causation in this case it seems to make sense that the changes you see in Elizabeth followed DD and she herself seems to attribute them to taking up DD. Of the items on your list, I would say our own relationship tracks to:

      (1) Swings a paddle harder - She definitely does it longer now, but she swung pretty hard nearly from the beginning.

      (2) Scolds with more authority - A little, though sporadically. She does scold outside of spanking sessions, but it comes and goes.

      (3) Public rule setting - Again, a little, but she tends to say it to me in private, not for public consumption.

      (4) Gentlemanly behavior - Not really. She has talked about some of those things as rules, though never really enforced them.

      (5) Improved appearance - This one is harder, because she did start working out much more about a year ago, and that also happened to be about the time she got more enthused about the FLR aspect of our relationship. But, it's hard for me to say whether one caused the other, whether both were caused by some other development, or whether they just happened to occur around the same time.

      (6) Family finances - No, she still leaves those up to me for the most part.

      (7) Voice louder - No not really.

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  8. Dan
    Weekly discipline has served as a reminder to Peter that I am not a nagging wife but a partner in raising our sons. As time passes I see improvements in behavior. I did learn however, that I must remain vigilant at any
    back sliding. It seems to me that Peter behaves better and stays on track with a weekly reminder. That reminder must never be less severe than the week before.
    Anna

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    1. Thanks, Anna. Can you address though how DD has changed *you*, in addition to what impact it has on Peter?

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    2. Dan
      I feel that DD has helped me to get back my self. I was no longer wife and mother and housekeeper.
      I was back becoming a partner in our marriage.
      Anna

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  9. I have asked my wife for her two cents as appropriate for formulating these answers.

    I don't know why so many couples took up DD at a later stage of their marriage and so few did it from the beginning like we did. As a result of us falling into the latter category, it is hard to comment on how she has changed! She is generally quiet, but still assertive and confident, but this has always been the case. She never wanted to be sexually dominant and is more than happy with the power she has over me in the form of being able to spank me regularly.

    Generally, yes, she very much walks the walk. Her conduct played a major role in me deciding which woman to pursue in marriage. I knew in advance I would find it rather strange if I were being spanked by someone with a worse record regarding the applicable offences.

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    1. Out of curiousity, who initiated the DD part of the relationship, you or her? Thinking about it, almost every time I have heard from a couple in which the wife initiated, it was a younger couple.

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  10. My (late) first wife was a natural-born disciplinarian (as I promptly discovered) and I suppose I was ready to accept her discipline... I never questioned her decisions (even when she chose to spank me under the eyes of some of her friends - or in places where it could be overheard... This was well understood when (after she died) I remarrried with N , who knew (and had watched) how I has been trained - and has used the same methods to keep me in line...
    L.

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    1. Thanks, L. It would be helpful though if you could address the topic of how the discipline has changed the disciplinarian.

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  11. So brought this up with Mrs Somethingrandom. Here is what she said.

    1. The assurance that I am working on "the big things" has helped her to ignore the little pet peeves that used to boil over and have more patience with things that matter less.

    2. Even though she does self improvement differantly by me willing to work on it this way she can stay more focused on her improvmemt.

    3. Keep strong boundaries on my struggles keeps her from falling into co-depenant tendencies of trying to manage my behavior. It gives her a way to concretely help and not try to manage the situation and get frustrated and unhealthy mentally. It creates a clear approach that is agreed.

    She did not say this one but communication has improved and more open about saying there is a problem before it gets out of hand.

    Cheers

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    1. So blogspot thought I was unknown...that is odd. The above comment is somethingrandom

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    2. Those are all really interesting responses. I wouldn’t have thought that enforcing the big things would result in ignoring the smaller ones, but upon reflection I can see how it could play out that way.

      Not sure what would account for the “Unknown” designation.

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  12. I don't think Aunt Kay changed much by taking on the DWC wife role. She was always grounded in solid values and adopting a new, unexpected lifestyle, didn't effect that.

    If there was somehting I thought should be done differently; trivial example is regarding chores - how sparkling I thought dishes should be done. I just took over those things (with no resentment, I should add).

    The one area where she really pushed herself was the Disciplinary Wives Club. She believed that there was so much potential for couples to have better relationships that she got impassioned about helping them. She was not basically an extrovert so participating in groups was a huge stretch for her.

    She was very practical and a real mother bear. So discipline was simply "done when required." The times I got it when she was really angry were - extremely memorable.

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    1. I wonder whether many blog and website authors are, in fact, introverts and the electronic world becomes a means of interacting in a way that isn’t quite as draining? While most of my colleagues assume I am extrovert, I really am very introverted but I’ve learned to fake it. I admit that blogging has a certain attraction precisely because there is a little more isolation in it.

      I honestly don’t think that I’ve ever gotten it when she was really angry. For years, my ass was saved (literally), by the fact that kids and other interruptions delayed things until the real anger passed. And, for a long time and to some extent even now, when she gets *really* angry she tends to forget that DD is an option at her disposal and, instead, reverts to flouncing.

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    2. About the occasion when she was really angry during a spanking. I'll just say, for those who don't know, she was a natural redhead.

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    3. Yeah, that kind of explains it doesn't.

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  13. One other way I have changed is the way I deal with frustration over my husband's help around the house not being done in a timely manner. I used thy o harbor a lot of resentment. Now I just say, should we add this to your Friday list? And he says No Ma'am and scurries to get it done. We argue so much less, and the resentment is minimal.
    Elizabeth

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    1. When people ask about the benefits of DD, I think reducing arguments is undeniable real and common.

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  14. Hi Dan,
    I talked with my wife on this weeks topic, and we concluded that the main changes have been improvements in self-confidence and assertiveness (with respect to DD, as she is plenty self-confident and assertive in general), and also just how much she has gotten into it.

    The net results of these charges are that she punishes much, much harder and longer than before (though not necessarily more often since our schedules seem to prevent that) and also in the beginning it was me who brought it up in conversation most of the time, and now she brings it up even more often than I do.

    Hopefully after this week I will be more in the groove and able to comment more consistently, since I am resting a bit finally!

    -ZM

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    1. HI ZM. It does sound like she has become a very enthusiastic participant!

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