Saturday, February 16, 2019

The Club #285 - First Conversations and Origins

“Though it seems curious, I do not remember ever asking for anything but what I got it.' - Sojourner Truth

Hello all.  Welcome back to the Disciplinary Couple’s Club.  Our weekly gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, Domestic Discipline relationships.

I hope you all had a great week.  Mine was, as is becoming a theme, exhausting.  Just bone-numbingly exhausting.  I can’t tell yet whether I am killing it in this new work role, or whether it is killing me. I think it will settle down as I put out some of the existing fires, but it’s depressing how many new ones ignite just when I think I have the old ones under control.  But, last year I was bored, and this year I’m massively over-stimulated. Between the two, I’ll take the latter.

But, this level of busyness does have some implications for Domestic Discipline.  Last week, I previewed the new reporting and accountability system we are trying, and for once we carried through with it.  I ended up with three consecutive sessions of five minutes each, with the leather strap, a mixed session with cane and paddle, and a short leather paddle/strap with holes.  The latter, which I received as a Christmas “present” under circumstances I will keep to myself other than to thank (sort of) the person responsible, is surprisingly painful.  Because it is short and pliable, it has this interesting way of curling up into the inside of the cheeks, which unlike the rest of my butt have not been spanked for 15 years and, hence, are a lot more sensitive.  Ouch.  The sequential spankings that added up to 15 minutes total, with intervening corner time, did seem to fit the purpose I hand mind, namely I remained very conscious that I could have avoided one or more of the independent rounds of punishment and corner time by behaving, so the power to control the extent of my punishment was in my own hands.   

One other lesson: I am finding that I just don’t really bruise from spankings anymore.  Even 15 minutes of very hard spanking left me bruise free, except for those parts of my inner cheeks that the leather paddle reached, and some marking on my thighs where the can wrapped around.  Yet, despite the lack of bruising, my butt remained very sore for several days.

The implications of this system for this week are interesting, and we will see how she chooses to handle it.  The plain fact is that under the system I myself created, last week was a total fail.  I didn’t work out. I didn’t keep up with the annoying administrative task.  Yet, I was productive.  Almost too much so.  It's not really an excuse, so much as an explanation.  I had work-related social engagements tied to the new role every single night, and these weren't things I initiated or could easily get out of.  The week began with an unexpected "crisis," and I was stressed to the gills and waking up repeatedly every night thinking about work stuff, plus I had early morning meetings every day.  The lack of sleep, early morning meetings and functions after work made it all but impossible to work out, as I just didn’t have any available block of time unless I wanted to get even less sleep.  And, each day was spent jumping from one fire to another, in a way that left me totally overwhelmed and whipsawed, to the point that I just didn’t have the time to keep up with all the administrative tasks.  So, my failure wasn't about not being productive or not trying hard; quite the opposite.  It was just an overwhelming week, struggling to keep my head above water. There is a story on the DWC website's "Real People" section called Bringing Out the Little Boy that touches a little bit on how things felt when I got home last night, beaten up by the week that was finally over:  http://auntkaysdwc.com/.

Now, I am not letting myself entirely off the hook. The work-socializing exacerbated some of my own problem habits, and I could have exercised more self-discipline there.   But, I really do feel like it was an exceptional week, and I did about as well as I could under the circumstances.  So, my plan is to report honestly but to also give that context, and the rest is up to her.

Last week’s topic — well, as Alan pointed out – there was some “straying” at the end.  But, that’s okay.   I don’t mind straying if it is clever and engaging, and for those of us with a philosophical bent, it was good. If it also functioned as spanko-repellent for those who come here only to look at spanking porn and make inane comments about mothers-in-law and facing the wall, all the better.

As for this week, a couple of weeks ago Elizabeth suggested some “origins”-related topics.  While we do those fairly frequently, we also do seem to have picked up several new commenters in the last few months. So,  I’m fine opening that topic up again, particularly since Elizabeth's phrasing of the sub-topics focuses on the communication process around initiating the DD relationship and the parties' respective reactions to that communication.  Great angles that hopefully will attract some good observations from our more serious commenters.  And, as with our philosophical meanderings last week, if exploring feelings and real-world communications scares off a certain segment of our readership, all the better.  For myself,  I always enjoy hearing how others got into this thing we do, because I still maintain that it is not a very common lifestyle and getting into it displays the kind of openness, courage, and mutual support that couples should be proud to share, encouraging others to ask for what they want and to be open to giving it even if it seems a little weird at first.

With that lead in, Elizabeth’s suggested topic and sub-topics are:

For the husbands who initiated DD:

·      How exactly did you approach your wife/partner?
·      What did you say?
·      How did you work up the courage? How long did it take you?
·      And what was her initial reaction? Did it change?
·      How long until your first spanking? Was it all you expected it to be?

    For wives who were approached:

·      How did your husband approach you?
·      What was your initial reaction? Did it change?
·      How did you decide to spank him?
·      What was that first spanking like? How did you feel?



And for those where the husband did not initiate: Tell your story!  Because, "asking for it" can be through words or actions, right?

I am not going to go into my own origin story in detail, as I’ve told it here repeatedly. Though, Anne is always free to jump in and tell her side of it.  Hint, hint. 

But, I will respond to a couple of Elizabeth's specific questions.

How did I approach her?  I did it after I found the DWC website and spent a weekend devouring it.  We were in bed, with the lights off, and I told her in general terms what it was about.  I'm not sure I could have done it any other way, except maybe by email, because I was so embarrassed by the whole thing.

What exactly did I say?  A lot.  Much of it centered on how this was not kink, or not just kink but, rather, about giving her real power to dole out real punishment for real offenses.  I also told her that the spankings were so real that the expectation was the husband would end up crying. That one turned out to be more fantasy than reality, but I do remember making that point to her, because I was trying to show that I was not suggesting a continuation of the short stint of erotic play-acting that we had tried in the past and that she felt might encourage bad behavior.

How did I work up the courage?  Well, I really felt like I didn't have much choice.  After I read the stories and other content on the DWC website, I was so overwhelmed by the whole thing that I couldn't think of anything else.  It was front and center in my mind all day and all night.  I  really couldn't NOT tell her about it.  It was truly an obsessive kind of thing, and as far as I recall the first time I had experienced anything like that.  I was aroused and scared at the same time.  And, to be clear, not scared that she wouldn't do it.  Scared that she would.  Yet, here I was asking for it.  It was all very paradoxical and perplexing, but the whole idea of it resonated so strongly for me that I had no real choice but to at least tell her about it and let the chips fall where they might.

How long did it take? I don't recall exactly, but it was short.  Probably two or three days.

What was her initial reaction?  She didn't say very much on the night I told her about it.  She listened, she said she she would check out the DWC website, and that was about it.  I would characterize it as puzzled, open, but noncommittal.   I recall going to sleep even more wired and on edge, because I had no idea what to expect.  Honestly, I thought the most likely scenario was she wouldn't follow up at all, or would reject the idea as just more erotic spanking with the potential to encourage even more bad behavior, and that would be that.  But, she called me at work (I think it was the next afternoon, though I don't have a clear memory of that.)  She said she had looked at the website.  Her only initial comment was, "Very interesting."  She then said that if I was serious about it, sI better go buy a heavy hairbrush.

How long until the first spanking?   She gave me my first spanking that same night.  

Was it all that I expected?  In a word, no.  We had so little experience with this, and didn't appreciate how hard it is to give a really effective spanking OTK with a hairbrush.  I'm not saying it can't be done, but I think it is likely to be effective only with a very experienced and serious spanker.  It took more experimentation and more serious tools, including a wooden "fraternity"-style paddle, before it became very real.  I still recall the first time it really hit home that I might have asked for more than I had bargained for. We had instituted a system of assigning points to each type of offense, with each point representing one swat with the paddle.  While my spankings up to that point had averaged between 10 - 25 swats, I had an exceptionally bad week, and I gulped when I realized it added up to 60.  She had never given me anything close to that before. I said something about not being sure I could take that many, and without skipping a beat she told me that I was going to take that many and that if I hadn't wanted that many then I should have behaved better.  That's what I mean when I say that without much hesitation, she took to the spanking part of this thing we do like a duck to water.

I hope you all have a great week.

58 comments:

  1. · How exactly did you approach your wife/partner?
    During the run-up to the wedding, we had lots of topics that we discussed regarding how married life would work. Sometimes, several topics would be discussed during each session and this was just one of the issues I raised during a multi-topic session.

    · What did you say?
    I can't remember all the points I put across, but I think the subject started with how we would deal with arguments and avoid letting the sun go down on our anger. I then told her that there are many marriages where the wife disciplines the husband by spanking and I wanted to give that a go after we tied the knot.

    · How did you work up the courage? How long did it take you?
    I suppose I was thinking about this sort of discipline at an early stage, because I had read about this sort of marriage before I met her and I was "weighing up" wife possibilities, knowing it would include spanking. I didn't manage to work up the courage during our courtship, but after our engagement, I thought I needed to find a time quickly to raise it, rather than the awkwardness of raising it after getting married.

    · And what was her initial reaction? Did it change?
    She was quite baffled initially. However, I persisted in trying to persuade her to agree to do this when we got married and she eventually agreed.

    · How long until your first spanking? Was it all you expected it to be?
    The first spanking happened on the wedding night. It wasn't all that many years since my childhood spankings, which I didn't remember as being particularly effective, so I asked her to up things, e.g. using a fraternity-style paddle rather than the strap. It was far more painful than my childhood spankings, but that was expected. The pain exceeded expectations, but in terms of not arguing, it worked even better than I expected.

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  2. Joe2 here,

    Due to length, I am going to split this into two posts. This post 1 of 2.

    I wrote on your blog about my entry into spanking on 19 Feb 2016, but that was almost a short story. So I’ll try to just answer your questions; which should make it much shorter.

    I have a very stressful job that required many long hours with very strict timelines. I have a lot of responsibility and it made the stress almost unbearable. I had strong feelings of inadequacy. I always felt that I was one bad decision away from ruination. Years before, I had linked pain with pleasure in exercising- the burn from lifting weights or when pushing yourself on climbing tall hills, etc… . Therefore, I thought that a spanking would link pain to better performance at work.

    The movement from idea to talking to my wife probably took several months. Mostly because of the embarrassment of asking and because I knew my wife was very vanilla in her thoughts. Please don’t get me wrong, my wife is very intelligent, mature and focused; but she also has very strict ideas on what is proper. I knew that I would be crossing a line on what was proper.

    I planned to talk to my wife like a project at work, every detail was scripted with branch plans. I planned a long weekend away from work. We farmed the kids off to her parents and went to a very nice location. I spent the first night focusing on her, in the hope it would show that I really loved and appreciated her. The first morning away, I told her that I wanted to talk to her that evening, but we should enjoy ourselves until then. I found out later that she thought we would talk about me taking a less stressful job. I had the whole day scripted to continue to show my adoration of her. That evening, I told her about my feelings of professional incompetence and how spanking could help me remain on task also the pain would help unwind the spring of stress. I had links to websites, articles for her to read and I was very clear that it wasn’t BDSM.

    My wife’s initial reaction was much worse than I expected. My worst expectation was for her to be repulsed and we would spend the rest of the weekend putting the topic behind us. I look of horror on her face made me believe that we were going to get a divorce. I wasn’t far off the mark. The next day, she left to “spend some time with her parents.” I got drunk.

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  3. Joe2 here, Post 2 of 2.

    I went home a day early, to pack my bags and prepare for at a minimum of separation from my wife and kids. To say I was devastated would be sugar coating it.
    Before I could finish packing my bags, my wife showed up. She wouldn’t let me leave and told me that she wanted to talk. She may have wanted to talk, but her body language was very cold. The conversation was she talked and I listened. She confirmed that she had told her parents that she had married a pervert and could not see a way to overlook this (Great, now three people think of me as a pervert, plus a divorce. How wonderful!). Unlike her expectation of approval, her father started asking her questions that went in a very different direction. As a background, her parents were very poor when growing up and her father enlisted in the Army; rising from private to colonel. He had long career and has the scars and nightmares to prove it. The questions went kind of like: Does he beat you? No. Does he stay drunk? No. Does he gamble? No Does he work hard? Yes. Does he love you and the kids? Yes. etc… . My wife quickly found that her parents were on my side and she would receive no sympathy from them. To her parents, spanking was a small thing and if it worked then great. There were more twists and turns before our relationship was repaired. If interested, please go read my original entry.

    It was probably three to four weeks from the initial conversation to the first spanking. By current standards, the first spanking was middle of the road. But being the first spanking, it was incredibly painful and my bottom did get bruised.

    Our spanking life has changed in that I now receive a spanking to remove stress. My wife still does not “like” spanking me, but she realizes that it has improved my quality of life; thus, making me a better husband and parent. To show how far we have come, it is not unusual for her to ask me if I need a spanking so I can refocus.

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    1. Thanks, Joe2. I always find your story fascinating, particularly: "My wife quickly found that her parents were on my side and she would receive no sympathy from them. To her parents, spanking was a small thing and if it worked then great." Your father-in-law's attitude seems so surprising, particularly coming from someone in a profession we think of as so "macho." Though, that may just reflect my own biases, and in the end career military men probably are among the most practical as a whole, because they have huge responsibilities and have to act with imperfect information and through imperfect people. Your story also makes me wonder whether we all underestimate many of the people in our lives and give them too little credit for how they would react if they knew about this aspect of our lives. My father also has a military background and is a world class "tough guy." I always assume he would have a negative reaction if he knew about my DD lifestyle, but I really don't know that to be a fact and very well could be giving him way too little credit.

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    2. Dan,

      Joe2 here,

      Her father and I only talked the on the evening he got me to go home. My mind was in a bad place and I did not take notes, but I will try to recap what I remember.

      First, he was proud that I belonged to his family. He did not realize that I had a deep feeling of inadequacy; rather, he thought I was the black sheep of my family. But in light of what I told his daughter, he now saw how there was an imbalance in how my family treated me versus my siblings. But he had a lot of experience with people and I was at the top.

      He told me that every person that is put in a challenging situation or job, had feelings of incompetence. He gave me some of his personal examples. One of his coping skills was to read about famous people. He told me that many famous people who were thrust in positions of responsibility above their experience level had similar feelings, e.g. Gen LeMay.

      Next he told me that in the military stress is usually handled with alcohol, to include himself. And he was very happy that I did not do that.

      Concerning spanking, he understood linking pain with accomplishment. He said that part and parcel of physical accomplishment requires embracing pain, not fighting it. So if I could link pain with doing a better job, then so be it. Just don’t put it on my resume. To him it was a “small thing”-his words.

      I could on and on, but one of the lasting things he told me that I did not have to win, I just had to try my best (both at work and at home). I think this comment has had a very lasting impact on how I approach life.

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    3. Dan,

      Joe2 here,

      One thing that happened when my father-in-law talked to me that I did not recognize until much later. The topic of spanking was almost a side issue to him. Upon reflection, he did it on purpose. If it was really a small thing, then it only required a side comment. Pretty smart guy.

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    4. I know a few military couples where the wife has used DD on the husband. As I understand from what I have heard, it is favoured as a way of resolving things quickly when a couple might have a limited time together and there is therefore no spare time to be sore about something. Often the wife is sore because things her husband does come across as indicating a lack of gratitude for what she does to keep the family running while he is on a tour of duty. I am aware of a man whose return from leave was heavily delayed due to logistical issues, meaning he only had one night with his wife before being redeployed. They went to a nearby B&B for the night, she spanked him to make up for the accumulated hurts, they had a night of passion, he had to return early the next morning, she found out she was pregnant a few months later and he was killed in combat about a month before the baby was born. I am not living the military lifestyle, so I doubt time with my wife would be that scarce, but she was glad the issues were resolved quickly by spanking, rather than a night of her being sore with him. It is sad that the son has no living father, but he would not exist at all, had it been the latter.

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    5. Joe2, it sounds like your father-in-law is a pretty great guy and a great leader. Congratulations on finding someone like that.

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    6. Dan: I know a high ranking medical doctor in the US military. He told me that in his job he constantly sees signs of spankings on his male patients. He was spanked by his girlfriend regularly too. He was very relaxed and open about it and said it was a very common thing within military couples.

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  4. Hi Dan,
    I feel like it has been a long time since I posted since I missed the last two weeks, though I was reading and enjoyed the conversations. On the “maternal” issue I could probably go on for hours since much of how how we practice DD at least echos maternal, though not exactly of course. I liked the discussion on the subject and thought there were some good insights. One thing I might say on the topic is that while maternal refers more to her demeanor and role, for me a big part of the “maternal style DD” is more about my role and how I become very much the little boy during that time. Anyway, it is very compelling for me because of the mixture of “given out of love/for your own good”, imposed and thus not quite so consensual, and also because of my morbid fascination with tears, which seem to naturally fit with this.

    Regarding the multiple individual punishments, I of course am so good that I never really have to worry about that! Hahaha. Actually, because it is usually the condition of my bottom that ends punishments more than her feeling like it has been enough punishment, it is probably a non-starter to do a bunch of back to back spankings. What would work, however, is punishments on consecutive days. Also, because we freely integrate humiliation into punishments as punishment amplifiers, in the case of multiple or severe infractions, she can just heap a bunch of humiliation on top of an already unbearable spanking to make it particularly memorable.

    What really resonated with me last week were KD’s comments about just enjoying the DD relationships we are so very lucky to have, even though of course they can always be improved. As I remember just how much I craved this when it wasn’t possible, and when I read what others write about wanting this and not being able to find it, I feel so totally blessed. Also, I loved your comment to Anna: “I absolutely need the benefits of discipline. I think the more open issue is whether asking for it gets me there. I get Peter's need for a spanking, but it seems like from what you are saying that is what he craves . . . the spanking. I think what I crave is the spanking that is *imposed*, i.e. ordered almost against my will. The more I direct the action, the less it is meeting whatever the need is that I have. “ This, this, this, this…….. I couldn’t have said it better myself, but this is exactly what does it for me. It is more the fact that it is imposed than the actual spanking (or humiliation, or whatever).

    Good questions this week. I will answer them in a separate posting - though possibly not today, and hopefully I will also be able to get my wife’s recollection/input and have her answer the questions for spouses as well (likely in yet another posting).

    -ZM

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    1. Yes, you've been missed. Feel free to go on and on about the maternal issue -- I had hoped you would!

      I'm glad you commiserate on how asking for it may scratch the itch for some but not others.

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  5. Hi Dan
    It’s really a tale of two different women although what they both had in common was a fairly strong interest in adult spanking or at least an open mind about it. So my experience is probably not typical. When I met the women who was to give me my first spanking as an adult I had harbored a long interest in spanking but never was able to open up to a woman about my own interest in being spanked. But long before we talked about spanking, she blew me away with her assertiveness even calling me at hone after one or two dates telling me that she “owned my ass” because I had not called her when I promised (will never forget those words” Within a fairly short time of dating I discovered she had very positive attitudes toward spanking although claiming no experience at all except as a pledge mistress in her sorority. (She still had her sorority paddle and I was to experience it much later) This led me to gradually tell her about my discipline growing up including a lot of detail about it. I also confessed to her that sometimes I felt like I still needed a spanking to keep me from rolling off the rails. She mostly just listened and absorbed what I told her. One thing she did say I remember was that she had observed some “self-destructive” behaviors in me and she thought she could help get them under control. Several weeks then went by in which I don’t think we talked about spanking at all and I started to think her interest in it and my spanking history had ended. Then with no notice she showed up at my apartment on a Sunday night and produced a custom paddle a friend had made for her. Not much was said but she administered what was one of the hardest spankings I ever had using several rooms and positions with me ending up stripped and in the corner holding a timer set for 45 minutes after which I was to get dressed and call her to talk about what just happened which I did. That spanking was much worse than I had fantasied and most of her early spankings were that way. That night after the corner. We talked by phone for several hours about how I felt and she felt and whether I wanted to continue being spanked by her. In the following weeks she established some rules (not that many) emphasizing I was never to challenge her authority (that was a lesson I had to learn the hard way but I did learn it. Within a month or so I was going over her knee weekly and it seemed the most natural thing in the world although it did take me some time to adjust to her severity. That relationship lasted more than 7 years and when it ended I was lost for a while but fortunately had a friend who knew quite a bit about that relationship and also knew a woman who had just ended her marriage with a divorce but who had some interest in “kinky” sex. She fixed us up and as we exchanged war stories I discovered she had been in an abusive relationship in which her husband spanked her non-consensually. Strongly enough that led her to become not anti –spanking but determined to be in charge in her next relationship. She was a little shocked that there were men like me who consensually submitted to discipline and that was probably more than she expected or even wanted. But over some ups and downs we became intimate which led pretty fast to spanking. She actually spanked me the first few times with a strap used once on her (that did feel strange and that strap is no more) She did not spank as hard as my former girlfriend but spanked much longer and more frequently (in the beginning) When we married we agreed that spanking would all be disciplinary and of course she would be in charge of when where and how. I am not going to be dumb enough to compare the two women’s spanking prowess but there is no doubt she is a natural disciplinarian and very serious about it. I will never understand how she ended up as a spankee in the first marriage but believe it made her the disciplinarian she is today.
    Alan

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    1. Experience as a pledge mistress . . . that's pretty funny. I didn't know that was an actual thing!

      Your wife's reaction to being non-consensually spanked -- not rejecting spanking but determining to be more in charge -- is certainly interesting. It's always a mystery to me how different people react to similar experiences in such dissimilar ways. Having a strap used on you that was used on someone else is something I've always found strangely . . . stimulating. In the past, I've bought vintage wooden brushes and wondered whether they might have been used on someone's bottom, perhaps a generation ago. I recently acquired three implements that I *know* were used on another man, and something about that makes them more significant. I wonder if my wife feels the same, as she has gone back to them again and again since I received them.

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    2. She was making a point about her new role using that strap which I fully didn't understand at the time. But she did understood my less than great reaction to the strap and stopped using it. I did around the same time have an experience that sort of overlaps yours. When my former girlfriend broke off with me , she gave me the brush she mainly used on me, a very sturdy hard wood sauna brush.My wife used that to spank me many times ( knowing where it came from) and she still keeps it. It made a connection between the two relationships for me that was good but also a little erotic.It sounds weird saying it but that brush transferred to my wife a lot of the authority my former girlfriend had built up which at the same time exorcised the power my former girlfriend had exercised over me. Early in my new relationship that seemed very important.
      Alan

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    3. I get it. I don’t know why I find tools that have been used on others to be erotic, but I do. Maybe it’s a weird kind of voyeurism, like I’m getting a very concrete glimpse into someone else’s kink? But, it’s more than that. There is just some power a tool has for me if I know it has been used on another person’s backside, particularly another husband’s backside. I honestly have no idea what that is about.

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  6. I could go on about this for quite a while.

    I first brought spanking up when we were engaged. It was after a day on the beach and on the drive back I told her. Spanking was pretty strong in my psche so I did not seem right not telling her before we got married. Her reaction was "ok" and not much more. Granted we had no idea what that meant and especially her who was not even exposed to spanking growing up.

    Her reactions later were more important. We would a few times a year spank with sex but after a while she basically said no more...then through a series of events over the next few years we ended up in counseling. After a while she basically came with her list of boundaries for me...no spanking was on the list. It was the only one I flat out said "No, that is not going to work". She cried, I think she expected me to just agree to everything and all would be good. After several more talks (my past, emotions, etc.) and me pointing out that this was somthing I did disclose, she decided to work with me. (This set of sentences was 2 years). Not much changed.

    Then about 18 to 24 months ago I introduced the concept of her "deciding punishments" for behavior we both agreed needed to stop. We discussed some philosophical and theological concerns and got on the same page...but she still did not "get it".

    Then I got her "Spanking and the Male mind". A ebook by a woman attempting to explain why men want to be spanked to their spouses. I printed it and went through and highlighted "green" for agree, "yellow" for maybe or "let's talk", and "red" for "nope, that is not it". She agreed to read it and discussed. It was after that she agreed to be a very limited DD partner. Spankings were few, although she would spank anytime I requested it. So a good start....

    Between then and now it has picked up. She is initiating both for stress relief and punishments...and makes them hurt. We agreed to drop it when related to sex for a season to create a mental separation. Although by mutual agreement (and alcohol) we sometimes do anyway. The past couple months we have been working through the "Psycology of Adult Spanking" audio books where I make notes about why and what for her to reference while listening. It has helped her to understand "why" a little better and has said "I am just glad I can help"...since it is making me a better husband and father.
    Was it what I initially expected...the first spanking on our honeymoon was a joke...but she tried. The first real discipline spanking came up REAL short. But since then we both have learned and grown to where we have an arrangement that works...but it took almost 13 years of fighting, talking, emotions, and lots of practice to get here. We have something that works and to build on.

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    1. That’s a great idea, going through a book about this stuff and giving her guidance on what resonates for you and what doesn’t. Otherwise, there could be a lot of room for misinterpretation. There really are not all that many sources that focus on DD, and not spanking in general or Femdom. If my wife read even some of the better ones without guidance from me, she definitely might assume that I would be motivated in the same way as someone who is, for example, a true “submissive” at heart, when some of that really does a not work for me at all.

      Do you have a source for the Psychology of Audlt Spanking audio books? The audio used to be posted on YouTube but was later taken down and I’ve had a hard time finding them anywhere else.

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    2. I have only found the audio on "deezer" which is like spotify. Others advertise to have it but either dont work or are samples.

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  7. This is Elizabeth's Frank. We are going to answer separately without conferring.

    How exactly did you approach your wife? I wrote her a long email on my 50th birthday.

    What did you say? I started out by apologizing for not speaking to her in person. I told her that I wanted some help making improvements, and then I went into a long section about all the things that I needed to improve. Then I finally mentioned how I would like the Improvement to occur, by her spanking me. Then I told all the reasons why I thought it would be good for our marriage.

    How did you work up the courage? How long did it take you? It took me 25 years! I was so private about my spanking fetish. She did know about it, as she had found some magazines and told me to get them out of the house. But I had never spoken to her or anyone about my desire. I finally worked up the courage because I was 50 years old and I thought if I am ever going to do anything about it, it better be now

    wWhat was her initial reaction? Did it change? How long until your first spanking? I sent her the email during the night before my 50th birthday. She did not say anything until the following evening after we came home from a birthday dinner. Then she said she had read my email. And then she paused. I was embarrassed and didn't say anything. She didn't say anything either for what seemed like forever. Then she said, well why don't you come over here and pull down your pants? She proceeded to give me a light hand spanking on my bare bottom. I was excited beyond belief. I was trying not to ejaculate over her lap! We didn't talk about it afterwards. She just fixed some dessert and we went to bed and made love.

    Was it all you expected it to be? Both yes and no. It was extremely exciting, not just getting the spanking but that she was actually taking control in that moment. But it was not about punishment that time. We didn't discuss my behavior at all. Later it became more what I was truly seeking.

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    1. “It took me 25 years!” Love that answer! But, in all seriousness, it is great that after 25 years of silence, you had the courage to ask, and she accommodated it.

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  8. This is Elizabeth. I have not read Frank's entry.

    How did your husband approach you? Email on his 50th birthday.

    What was your initial reaction? He said in the email that he had wanted to approach me for 20 years! I was taken aback by that. I wondered why he felt like he couldn't approach me. I wasn't shocked about his request for corporal punishment. I knew he was a spanko. And I had previous experience being spanked and also doing some paddling in my college sorority. As his wife, I wanted to give him what he needed, just like I would in any other area of our lives.

    Did it change? Yes. At first I thought it would be rather simple. But as we got into it, it became much more complicated and began to dominate our relationship. I was not okay with that, and so we had to set some strict limits on our DD.

    How did you decide to spank him? I knew as soon as I read the email that I was going to accommodate him. And what better time than on his birthday? So I spanked him that very night.

    What was that first spanking like? It was relatively short, over my knee, with his pants down, bare bottomed, with my hand. He was very excited by it. I was not but I felt okay about it. I was a little taken aback by how erotic it was for him. I realized that there was an erotic element to his request for punishment. In that first instance, it did lead to sex, and I wondered if that was appropriate.

    As the days and weeks went on I had more questions than answers, and the process of figuring out how DD began. We had some rough spots and it took several years to figure out the routine we have now. But truthfully, most of the good things he predicted in his original email have come to pass.

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    1. I have to admit, I am shocked by your and Alan’s references to sorority spankings. I always assumed that was (a) a myth; and (b) to the extent it really happened, it was in fraternities and not sororities. You learn something every day!

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    2. At my school, which shall go nameless, each pledge got a paddle with the name and grad year of her Big Sister, who was the one who "initiated" the pledge with it. When I became a Big Sister, I added to my paddle the names of my pledges (in addition to having my first name and grad year on each of their paddles). Yes, we all got our share of whacks during initiation, and many sorority sisters have kept their paddles for sentimental reasons.

      Fraternities worked much the same as far as I know. What is not true, at least to my knowledge back in my time, is fraternity attendance at sorority rituals, or vice versa. Ours were strictly "sisters only" events.
      Elizabeth

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    3. My wife was in a sorority, and they did have a similar exchange of paddles (she still has hers), but by that point they seem to have been purely ceremonial, i.e. unused in any realistic way on any actual behind. You’ve now left me with some pleasant visuals to ponder the rest of the day. :-)

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    4. Yes, you boys are all about the visuals! Which is why I won't tell you what we were or were not wearing for our swats!

      My time in college was way before your wife, Dan, and during the interim the schools started banning initiation rites. Back in my day the paddle was still swung, though nothing like you boys get now for punishment. Often it was just one swat for a hazing "offense," though we did play some initiation games where there were numerous offenses in an evening. And some sisters swung quite lightly, though my Big Sister had a heavy hand. As did I as an upperclassman.

      After all, an initiation rite must be meaningful. Sort of like punishment for a husband. ...
      Elizabeth

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    5. This is Frank. Elizabeth's sorority paddle played a big part in my decision to approach her about corporal punishment, though she knew nothing about that at the time. I had first seen the paddle when we were dating, in a closet in her bedroom. I asked her about it and she laughed and said that it had been put to good use in college and that she had been on both ends of it.

      At the time she was in training to be a school teacher. A pretty teacher with her own paddle? She was a spanko's dream.

      After we were married, the paddle went up in the attic in storage with a bunch of our other stuff. At one point, I became pretty obsessed with it. When she was out of the house I would go up there, pull it out of the trunk and read the names on it and fantasize about being on both ends of it.

      As Dan and Alan have both remarked, there was something very exciting about a paddle that I knew had been used on others. Particularly when it was my wife, and when she had both been spanked with it and spanked others with it.

      Knowing that she wasn't totally against corporal punishment between consenting adults helped me when I finally decided to approach her. Looking back, I really don't know why it took me so long to admit what I needed, with that sorority paddle in the attic the whole time.

      Now it hangs in our bedroom closet and she uses it on me regularly, and it's really exciting that it is her Implement of choice for our DD. One of the hardest paddlings I ever got was when I admitted to her that I used to sneak up in the attic and misbehave myself while holding the paddle and fantasizing about her using it on me. Maybe some day she'll add my name on it, ha ha.

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    6. “At the time she was in training to be a school teacher. A pretty teacher with her own paddle? She was a spanko's dream.” Love it!

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    7. Honestly, I was furious about what Frank did with my paddle. He defiled one of the few tangible things I had left from those days. So it was very appropriate to punish him with it. Though his name will never be added!
      Elizabeth

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  9. I meant "the process of figuring out OUR DD began"

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  10. Reading these testimonials and especially those recounting months and years of work to arrive at a consensus are inspiring while also sobering. I believe we are headed for a better day when women will not enter adulthood unaware of the prevalence of spanking and discipline needs that many men have ( and I have come to believe there are many more men seeking discipline than once seemed the case) More sophisticated women will mean the extended conversation many of us have will be shorter and probably more productive as the future looms. Meanwhile I wonder if men with spanking needs should not begin to have that conversation early in the relationship and surely before marriage or co-habitation. For many men ( most) it is a need that can't be denied and trying to deny it is going to hurt if not destroy the long term relationship. I am a romantic and understand the overwhelming power of romantic love . But it will not be enough in a long term relationship unless both parties are at least reading the same book. ( getting to the same page can be the fun of a lifetime together ) I have been fortunate in my relationships partly because the spanking issue came up and was resolved early and partly just dumb luck.While I firmly believe ( in fact know) there are hundreds if not thousands of women who are or become superb disciplinarians for their boyfriends or husbands, I also believe there are many women for which it just doesn't work. The culture is slowly changing that so more and more women are experiencing their natural assertiveness but for some it just isn't who they are or will ever be. My point in this long digression is directed at younger guys who may just be experimenting with DD or even just discovering it. Not telling her early is unfair to both of you as well as dishonest. Your sexuality is fixed and so is hers.Make sure you know what it is for both of you
    Alan

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    1. It is sobering, though I suspect it’s the reality for many people. We start out too scared of rejection to reveal our weird inner worlds, then as we get some more comfortable in our own skins, and we find people we trust and who love us, things start opening up. But, because the communication remains hit and miss, and because self-discovery also can take a long time, years of experimentation can go by before something really clicks. I do agree that the sooner people open up the better, though I don’t really agree that sexuality is fixed. If anything, looking at high school and college age kids today, it seems fluid as hell. And, in my own case, I spent the first part of my adulthood with no interest in spanking, and without even knowing about the concept of adult corporal punishment. Even with something as powerful as sexuality, I think that people can change a lot over time. True, each person probably has a range they operate within, but within that range lots of incremental change can occur.

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    2. I agree that most of us operate within a range but within that range sexuality is fixed at some point in early adulthood.What makes it seem more fluid than it really is owes to the powerful effect of early conditioning and ongoing culture.Abstinence and repression are always options but they don't make sexuality less fixed, just makes one less fulfilled
      Alan

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    3. Though, I think that depends on what you mean by both “sexuality” and “fixed.” Our preferences for a specific gender are probably more or less fixed, and certainly enough experimentation going on that “fixed” is a pretty elastic concept. And, removal of convention and repression can surely lead to expressions of kinkiness that didn’t manifest before, but the subject had to do some of that removing or rejection of convention, so to what extent was the sexuality actually “fixed” in the first place? Conversely, you see people who may be very experimental at one point, then drift into a more stable and narrow mold. I don’t think that is always because of repression but, rather, we sometimes just figure out over time what it is we like and need.

      I think we sometimes attribute way too much to unconscious drives and not enough to conscious decision making. Something (one of the few things) I admire about the Millennials and whatever this newest generation is called are how many of their choices are open and consciously made. They try on sexual and gender identities like trying on a new set of clothes and discard ones they don’t like just as easily. Similarly, I don’t quite agree that someone with a spanking interest is going to go through life with an unfulfilling relationship if the spouse is not interested. In the end, for many couples, the relationship is a balance of met and unmet needs, and an unmet interest is one factor that weighs in the balance, but is far from always a “make it or break it” aspect. If my wife suddenly decided she didn’t’ want to keep doing DD, I wouldn’t like it, but my life would go on and much of it would still be fulfilling.

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    4. I definitely agree. I believe I am younger than many of the people here and I am glad I raised this with my wife long before we got married.

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    5. I suppose if I indulge in some real blue sky thinking, the fully ideal scenario is that this sort of relationship becomes sufficiently common that people know about it before reaching adulthood and so there is little surprise if a husband desires it. Or even that it becomes universal, a practice that is sufficiently normal for children to be told about (at a suitable age) and the default position becomes that a newly-married couple adopts these ways with only brief confirmation to ensure consent? Not likely imminently, but we will see how society's attitudes change.

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    6. As I’ve said before, I’m not sure it would be a good or fulfilling thing if this lifestyle became the norm. I kind of like being a member of a small and self-selected club

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    7. My husband believes he is hard-wired as a spanko the same way people are (apparently) genetically gay. I tend to think a spanking fetish (for punishment or sex) is more environmental than that. But I doubt there has been much academic research on individual kinks.

      What I do know is that my husband has had this desire/need forever and it is unlikely to change.
      Elizabeth

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    8. Hi Elizabeth. Yes, I seem to be an exception to the rule when it comes to having an early fetish or fascination with spanking. I just don’t recall any interest at all until well into my 30s, but I do think I am an anomaly based on several years of comments here.

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    9. Hi all
      Actually there has been some research aimed broadly at sexual preferences the conclusion of which which makes a lot of sense albeit it comes down squarely in the middle of the nature vs nurture debate. In essence it proposes that some people have the genetic wiring to develop a fetish ( such as interest in spanking)( they are "prepared" as the jargon goes). However it requires some experience(s) to activate it ( which might be for example being spanked or seeing someone spanked)Then the genetic wiring as it were kicks in. What is not known is how many have the wiring in the first place and what the triggers might be. That is probably very idiosyncratic and may well vary by gender.The ( spanking) wiring presumably developed over evolutionary time and(if so) has some kind of adaptive benefits for those exhibiting it. In other words if you are a spanko it might actually give you ( or your genes) some survival advantages.That's something to ponder the next time she sends you for the bath brush

      Alan

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    10. Though, couldn’t you also postulate that spanking isn’t more prevalent because such a gene is mal-adaptive and, hence, has not gained more traction or receded in prevalence over time? Couldn’t it also be that those of us who gravitate not just to spankings but disciplinary spankings do so because we lack certain genes that contribute to self-control, i.e. we have poor impulse control (or perhaps we have genes that cause poor impulse control), and unlike the rest of the population who are better adapted, we need spanking to control our behavior precisely because our genes leave us mal-adapted to an environment in which self-control contributes to survival?

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    11. Lack of self-control isn't a survival issue for Frank but it sure puts him in a compromising position quite regularly. I tend to agree that impulse control or the lack thereof is very possibly genetic ... and that corporal punishment by an accountability partner (otherwise known as a wife) is an excellent antidote.
      Elizabeth

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    12. Don't males genetically have less impulse control than females? As hunters of food and women? And isn't it logical that women, who are driven to create a safe family, would be the ones to rein us in?

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    13. "an accountability partner (otherwise known as a wife)" . . . I really love that, Elizabeth! Maybe I need to get that title added to Anne's business cards!

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    14. It seems to me that our female friends on many other blogs would would say the same things.......with the genders reversed. ;-)

      We men are such impetuous little rascals........unless we end up at the other end of the paddle and then we miraculously end up endowed with sufficient mature wisdom to tame the foolish female whimsies. LOL

      Maybe it's not x or y chromosomes that are a factor in accountability but merely whose hand is holding the paddle?

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    15. Clearly some truth in that last comment. Probably on two levels. First, I have come to see that many of the women in M/f relationships get there in the same way I did and for the same reasons; they asked for it (literally) and they have some outsized craving for imposed boundaries and accountability. Second, once someone agrees to start wielding the paddle, if they take that at all seriously it requires stepping up as a leader, taking it seriously, etc. You learn by doing, right? If you act like the partner holding the other accountable, being a leader, etc. — you start becoming that.

      On the other issue raised above about gender differences in impulse control, etc. — our friends on M/f blogs can say whatever they want, but the stats sort of speak for themselves. Men die an much higher rates than women, A huge proportion of that difference is comprised of accidental deaths, homicides and bad choices. I don’t think there can be any real dispute that men do way more dumb shit than women, and we pay a price for that.

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    16. I think our culture teaches women that it can be considered sexy to have poor impulse control (up to a point, beyond which she is a slut). But genetically I think women are far superior in that area, particularly in regards to sexual behavior.
      Elizabeth

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    17. Maybe, though I've also read studies suggesting that women really aren't much better no things like fidelity -- they are just sneakier about it and, hence, get away with it more. Though, that itself would be a form of superiority, right?

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    18. As a former HR manager, with a fair balance of men and women in various roles, I can't say I noticed any intrinsic superiority in impulse control to either gender. In fact, the gut inclination of female workers to incessantly go after each other with an almost animal instinct (like two bettas in the same tank) far surpassed the men who, barring a few aggressive win-at-all-costs assholes, seemed largely content to cooperate, albeit at times grudgingly.

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    19. Doesn't surprise me. Women always seem to be harder on other women . . .

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  11. Dan
    I notice you have posted Anna's rules as well as our story. Although it was written a couple of years ago
    it remains much the same. If anyone has any questions I will be happy to answer. We have a few variations
    but ask and either Anna or I will be happy to answer.
    Peter & Anna.

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  12. My wife and I started spanking each other as a sexual enhancement. We would use wooden implements and at times give each other pretty good spankings. The start of using it for punishment started when she got upset one day while shopping. I was dropped off at home while she went back to shopping leaving with the comment that I was getting it when she was finished. When she got home nothing seemed unusual, I was tied to a chair with my arms across a table also secured and my bare bottom facing out, we had played around like this before and I was not expecting what came next. Being severely paddled and hearing about all of her frustrating issues with me was a painfully eye opening experience.This has evolved over the years and we both get punishment spankings her maybe twice a year while I get two or three a month. For me the worst are the belt and the switch. I will admit that it has helped me to over come poor behavior and we've become closer. I am going to get a very hard spanking this evening for my chronic problem with speeding. I'm not looking forward to it, I know it will be embarrassing standing nude before my wife getting lectured and getting the belt and the switch after being paddled. I dread the two hours of promises and pleading and crying that is coming. We still use play spanking as a prelude to sex, this won't be one of those times.

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  13. Trying to be guided by the initial questions (and knowing I have shared some of this before). I approached Mrs GL on her spanking me as a response to her reacting very negatively to my need to re-invigorating me spanking her. She said that unlike 10 years earlier she felt the power thing was uncomfortable to her and that was reflected in how she behaved at the appointed times (very little spontaneity by then). I proposed "equality", she could regularly spank me as well. My interest in being spanked at that point was limited but it grew quickly after the first couple (it took a week from suggestion to first spanking of me although she agreed within 24 hours). We tried that for about a year, whilst my attraction to being chastised grew (I started my secret once every 6 months visits to professionals here in the UK during that period) it became clear she was still not really engaging as a spankee. As it happened about 18 months ago she was approaching a busy and important part of her public life and so I offered to be the spanked one 100% for a while (in exchange for no loss of how many times per month spanking took place in our lives). Mrs GL agreed that and I havn't discussed returning to equality since.

    The spankings I receive are not the same as those I get elsewhere and that is a good thing, it means I can have my cake and eat it. Mrs GL is never going to give me a red bottom that last 5 days but she does give me a inner peace I value and bless her she tries. Clearly ours is not a FLR or even a proper DD (although she is a strong personality and she will turn me over her knee for breaking some rules about drinking, usually a few days later, she enjoys making me wait) but I am content that our ritual cycle makes me a spanked hubbie and I am content with things as they stand. In fact I consider I wasted 40 years not being into being the chastised one as opposed to always looking to chastise (although to be honest 80% of that 40 years was spent not having a bottom to spank). So apologies my journey isn't quite in the mould of most, but it was how it was and is how it is.

    Cheers Good Life Mickey.

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    1. Interesting. This is one area where we are definitely different. I have absolutely no desire at all to be the spanker. In fact, I don't think I would be emotionally capable of giving a disciplinary spanking to a woman. An erotic one? Maybe, though even that has very little appeal.

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  14. Mickey,

    Your spanking journey is absolutely perfect as it is.

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  15. As for the week's question? Sorry, but this road has been worn smooth. Anyone that is curious who hasn't already read it all before is welcome to visit: http://collectedsubs.blogspot.com

    ;-)

    Too tired from projects to rehash old beans. ;-)

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  16. This was one of the best topics you've had in the years I've followed you! You've heard this from me before...it's SO HELPFUL to hear from you couples that have "gotten there" that it's a process and not something that happens overnight. Also that it can still happen with a wife who is initially "adverse" to the idea.

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  17. We are in our 60s and have been happily married for nearly 40 years. I always enjoyed giving my wife mild OTK spankings as part of foreplay, and for the occasional misbehaviour issues, but she always found it difficult to be assertive enough to give me the really sound domestic spanking I so desired to receive.

    Because she only likes receiving milder hand spankings it has taken her many years to come to terms with feeling confident enough to administer a real spanking that actually hurts. As she is a kind person who doesn't like hurting people she found playing the “angry aunt” role was difficult for her.

    It has been a slow process and there have been numerous failed attempts to get her to punish me properly, but she now gets it right.

    It changed when she finally accepted that in order for a spanking to be “real” it must reach a stage where I desperately wanted it to stop, but that it had to continue beyond that point.

    To achieve this I made a school paddle with holes of 15x3x0.25 inches, which packs a punch. We agreed that the spanking must be deserved, even if I deliberately did something to get the spanking.

    We also agreed that six really hard swats on the bare with the paddle with no warm up was better than a larger number of more gentler swats. My needs are to punished with a domestic quality spanking and not sadistically thrashed or receive a foreplay spanking.

    There is something very satisfying about taking on the “naughty” role for a while knowing that your wife can play the no nonsense Aunt who is going to administer a good sound spanking when I misbehave.

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  18. My hubby and I got into spanking a year or two after being married. We had on some comedy and I asked if he had been spanked in his private school. He answered yes and I had him explain. I got hot. Next day I bought a ping pong paddle. That week end I asked him to playcschool with him as a bad boy. He agreed if I was easy. I agreed, had him take down his pants and go across a chair. Then i spanked him until he had bright red cheeks. I was so wet. When we stopped the sex was out of this world.

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