Saturday, December 1, 2018

DCC Meeting 276 - Fathers & Sons

If you don't get enough time-outs as a child, you get them as a grownup. ~Andrew Bonifacio

Hello all.  Welcome back to the Disciplinary Couples Club.  Our weekly gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, Domestic Discipline relationships.  I hope you had a great week.

The holidays are upon us.  I really love this time of year.  As soon as the Christmas lights go up, my mood seems to improve.  Left to my own devices, I'd leave them up well into February.  The only thing I don't like about this season is, ironically, all the holiday parties.  Although I hide it pretty well, I am an introvert to the core, and going to parties every weekend for a month or more really wears me out emotionally.  I also can expect my wife to "wear me out" physically, with her strap and paddles, multiple times this month, given my proclivity for over-indulging at such gatherings.  And, of course, turning the tables is entirely out of the question in our family.

Our topic this week extends from a couple of last week's comments.  In exploring a tangent regarding the relationship between frequency of corporal punishment as a child and our later interest in adult discipline, I referred to these result from a poll we ran back in 2015 that explored how often our readers were spanked as kids and by whom:

Spanked frequently 14%
Spanked but only infrequently 53%
Never spanked 24%

Spanked by mother/not by father 20%
Spaned by father/not by mother 10%
Spanked by both 27%

Tomy followed up by pointing to more comprehensive surveys posted on the DWC website.  www.auntkaysdwc.com.  I had some spare time on my hands this week, so I went back and gave them another read.  One thing that struck me was that there were several questions that explored the relationship between the mother's demeanor and disciplinary practices and  our later interest in, or openness to, adult discipline.  But, there were no corresponding questions regarding relationships between disciplined husbands and their fathers.  It does seem like we just kind of assume that if our parents had some role in forming our interest in F/m corporal punishment, it must relate to our mother's approach to discipline or the extent to which she exercised domestic authority.  But, is that correct?  Might it be that our fathers influence our later attitudes toward discipline as much or more than our mothers? 

I had already been thinking about that issue when ZM posted about his early spanking experiences, and noted that while he is sure his mother did spank him, he doesn't really remember any of those spankings, but does remember spankings from his father.  This is my experience as well.  Also, like him, there was a substantial period when I was growing up that I did not have a father's influence in my life, and until recently I'd never really thought about whether that might have influenced the need for boundaries that fuels my interest in adult discipline.

When I'm honest with myself, there is something about M/m discipline that I find morbidly attractive.  A few years ago, a commenter on this blog wrote the following:
One Saturday when I was 15, my older brother, who was 16, got caught smoking grass. My dad told my brother that he would be punished severely until he had some sense knocked into him. He made my brother wait almost a week.  After dinner on the following Friday, my dad took my brother downstairs to my dad’s basement workroom. Through the vents we could hear the swats of my dad's thick black belt landing on what we all knew was my brother’s bare bottom. Only when my brother was sobbing and begging to be forgiven and swearing he would never touch grass again did my dad stop. A few minutes later Dad came up, had his dessert, and as Mom cleared the dishes he brought my younger brother and me down to the workroom where my brother was still bent bare-assed over a work bench. His ass was raw. Dad told us to look and learn, and we were then sent to our rooms. I don’t know why but I was so aroused by it all.

The commenter was not the only one aroused.  Stories like that have always touched a nerve with me.  It may be no accident that I've always found "woodshed" stories so arousing, and in those stories it almost always seems be a father or uncle doing the spanking.



I think part of the emotional reaction I have to stories involving spankings by a father or uncle is bound up with my need for discipline to be "real."  While I believe these kind of relationships must be grounded in consent, the reality is I've always wanted the discipline to be imposed on me whether I consent or not.  In fact, the more she takes control away from me, the more compelling the whole thing is.  Yet, there are limits to how much that need for unilateral imposition of real discipline can be fulfilled, because deep down inside I know that I am capable of physically resisting.  I think one reason that I find woodshed stories involving male spankers so compelling is that physical resistance against a father figure might actually not be possible.  That kind of spanking is going to happen whether the recipient cooperates or not, and something about that real loss of control stirs me.  

The talk last week about spanking frequency and who delivered made me want to update our 2015 poll.  Unfortunately, in trying to do that I found that Blogger has eliminated the poll gadget.  So, no more polls for this blog.  Which kind of sucks, but I guess we'll have to live with a more narrative approach.  Tell us all about who handled discipline in your family.  Your mother? Father?  Other family members?  And, do you think that discipline or lack thereof from your father influenced your desire for discipline today?

UPDATE:  Anna's comment, below, suggested the following question, which is perhaps a more direct phrasing of what I was going for with this topic: "How many of those that crave spankings were raised in a household where the gather was absent in terms of ordering discipline? That does, in fact, reflect the way I grew up, for the most part.  Like ZM, early on I did have a father figure who acted as a disciplinarian, but there was a period where that was not the case, and during key periods I did have a father-figure around but he probably needed discipline more than I did!
I hope you have a great week.

48 comments:

  1. Hi Dan, I have sort of an uninteresting answer to this weeks question. I was disciplined by both parents. Can't really determine the numbers but my Mom would deliver punishment spankings at the time. None of this 'wait till your Father gets home'. If he was at home, he handled the discipline. Most spankings were with bare hand, but he would use his belt for serious offenses. They believed in punishment at the time of the poor behavior and we were spanked no matter who may have been present. My Aunt was the only other family member who spanked me (see last week's entry) that I recall. Oddly, it was her spanking which had the most influence on my desire for Domestic Discipline today.

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    1. I wonder if the reason the spanking from your Aunt stuck with you is because of your age at the time -- sixteen. I don't recall how old I was when I got my last spanking as a kid, but it was well before 16.

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    2. That is a possibility. It was quite an experience.

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  2. Hi Dan,

    I wanted to say "hello" again, and re-introduce myself and tell my story.

    My name is Colleen. My spouse and forever buddy found and posted to your site a few years ago when we decided to make Domestic Discipline a more important part of our lives.

    Unfortunately, a few medical issues had to be attended to, and we had to put the DD life on hold. By not having it in the forefront, I began to slide back into my subservient mode, and my spouse returned to his former annoying ways.

    We are now both healthy and happy, and rediscovered your active site. Reading your well written thoughts and those of your contributors have given me the confidence I needed to pick up where I left off. Both of us know that the DD life will benefit us greatly!

    Thanks for all your hard work and for those who thoughtfully make comments.

    Colleen

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    1. Hi Colleen. Thanks for joining in. I hope we'll hear more from you in the future!

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  3. Dan
    I think Dan an interesting question you might ask how many of those that crave , spankings were raised in a
    household where the father was absent in terms of ordering discipline. I do know that Peter grew up with a
    dad that was absent from his formative years. Not having that bonding or craving that dad/son bonding, leads
    to acting out as an adult male.
    Because the idea of an adult male seeking out discipline like that from a dad figure I think is so linked to having homosexual overtones that most men choose to seek out a woman. Peter has told me that at 12 his grandfather took him over the knee with a bare bottom was spanked with a paddle till he was bruised for a week. That spanking sticks in his mind to this day. Sad to me but I still struggle with understanding males!
    anna

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    1. Hi Anna. This is what I was shooting for with this topic, but your way is better. I'll rephrase it in the body of the topic. Your thoughts on how it works are also close to my own current thinking, i.e. that not having a father figure laying down the law may result in a desire for boundaries and rules later on but that it is expressed as an interest in F/m discipline, because M/m would be even less socially acceptable.

      Though, I also do suspect that the presence of a strong disciplinary mother might offset the absence of a father-figure disciplinarian. But, who really knows . . .

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  4. Both parents handled the discipline in the few years when my father was alive. After then, it was my mother who disciplined me. I became aware later on of the discipline my father received from her, which I suppose was a strong influence on me desiring F/M discipline when I got married.

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    1. Thanks, Anonymous. How did you become aware that she disciplined him?

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    2. Sorry for the late reply: - some free time enabled me to look back at some posts over the last year. She told me in my mid-teens or so because she thought it was a very effective part maintaining marital harmony. She said she wanted to tell me when I was old enough to process such things rationally, but still young enough for it to be possible to normalise wife-led domestic discipline with me. I remember myself back then and I'm 100% sure I would not have processed it rationally had I seen it happen! As a result, I have viewed it as normal since then.

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  5. Hi Dan,
    I don’t have any meaningful additions to this week’s thread but I wanted to say hello again, especially since my wife Colleen already posted ahead of me. As she explained, a few years ago we both did post and enjoyed your Blog greatly. I’m the annoying spouse she mentioned. Haha!

    DD is alive and thriving here today, in part to your Blog being available. I’ll let her tell more if she chooses to. Since she looked up your Blog about a week ago hoping that you were still there, that reading unleashed some real discipline in the last few days. In fact I am having no small difficulty sitting comfortably tonight because of that.

    We see that you have changed the title of your Blog slightly to accommodate our fabulous spouses who keep us in line. Colleen said she would like it if there were more women posting here, and we think one thing that would help would be to have a weekly question for them as well (or in place of) for us. Colleen said that she feels that since the questions don’t apply to her and her group on the other side of the paddle she has no way of adding to the conversation. That may help to attract more spouses to post regularly. I know your job running this Blog has to be a serious load on your time. We really appreciate it! Maybe eventually one of the ladies would come forward to assist with the women’s questions.

    Thank you very much for all the thoughtful work you have put into this!
    Jerry

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    1. Hi Jerry. Thanks for the kind words. I wish Blogger had a search function for comments so I could go back and find yours and Colleen's. No such luck.

      I'll think about how to work something in that is more specific to female readers. I always assume they will do as Anna does, and just flip the perspective on the question to that of the dominant party. But, I can try to be more explicit about it. In an ideal world, there would be a good "real world" DD blog out there written by a Disciplinary Wife. A friend of mine had one that is listed in my blogroll, https://learningandlivingaflr.blogspot.com, but she hasn't updated in two years. But, in the meantime, I'll try to work on being more expressly inclusive.

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  6. Thoughts of being spanked by a male have only surfaced for me in times of dire desperation. But I definitely resonate with your preference that the spanker be in full control and that usually most men can overpower the woman.

    I was able to somehow fully release all control to Aunt Kay. So while technically I suppose I could have resisted physically, regardless of intensity, it was not an option.

    Regarding the presence of a father as disciplinarian. I vividly remember when my dad laid into me with his belt when I was about nine or ten. My mom told him that if he ever did it again he would have to find somewhere else to live.

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    1. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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    2. I think you are kind of missing the point, which is that deciding not to resist is itself a form of control. The discussion point that Tomy was addressing is around surrendering control and whether and to what extent that can happen even if physical resistance is possible.

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    3. Hi Dan,
      I can't really say exactly what brought me to this point as far as psychology and so on, but I can say that I really have no desire to be spanked by a male. To me it just doesn't sound that appealing. Having said that, I do still think that my desire for spanking may be in some way related to my missing relationship with my father, and him spanking me several times in the years before he left.

      However, what does resonate for me is the being unable to resist. But as Tomy pointed out above, this doesn't necessarily require being overpowered physically. I cannot keep myself from submitting to my wife because deep down, it is what I really want, even if I don't necessarily want it at the time! And also, many of my fantasies revolve around there being some other sort of power dynamic (like work-related, etc.) that makes resistance impossible, but again it doesn't necessarily mean being physically overpowered, but rather just being "over a barrel."

      -ZM

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    4. Hi ZM. I totally get that distinction. I think why the possibility of being physically overpowered has an appeal for me is because, for whatever reason, I've just always been able to resist things like work-related power dynamics. I do think this is an area in which my father, an anti-authoritarian to his core and to an extreme--influenced me early on. Sometimes I think that I feel immune from consequences at work because we've reached a point where I'm relatively financially secure and, hence, "bosses" at work can't do much to hurt me, but the reality is I was just as immune to the threat of workplace discipline back when I was making $7.80 an hour and living paycheck to paycheck. I'm just wired in such a way that I don't care much about non-physical threats. So, I guess I can envision a power dynamic that involves "being over a barrel," but not physically over a barrel, it would probably have to be something extreme, like blackmail or extortion. But, that is an interesting angle in and of itself. I posted a few weeks ago about the "sex cult" that seemed to be more about a fairly extreme form of self-help or performance coaching, in which people would provide "collateral," such as a letter admitting to some (real or made up) bad act, and the letter would never be made public as long as the person did what they committed in terms of some performance-oriented goal. Something about that resonated with me.

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  7. Now I am resisting commenting on that guy's audacity to criticize my parents. Oops. I commented.

    And yes, of course resisting one's wife's discipline would defeat the purpose.

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  8. Hi. First time poster! Been lurking for a while. Really find comfort in your blog and all of your followers comments so thanks everyone. Can't say that I have any deep rooted history with DD and certainly don't remember anything as a child, but I know that discovering my wife's natural dominance has released a lot of hidden feelings in me and in the six months we've been in this new relationship I've been able to discard a huge amount of the pretence I had built into my life. I feel so free! Whilst it's not been a completely smooth road, were doing good, in part thanks to this blog....

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    1. Hi Unknown. Can you explain more about what you mean by "discarding a huge amount of the pretense . . ."?

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  9. I can relate to what you have written here Dan. Although I am not in a DD relationship, I frequently go to a particular dominatrix I have known for a long time. I can't help but wonder, if I sought out a strong willed male professional spanker if it would remove a possible sexual component from the encounter, and put the focus squarely onto the discipline I am there to receive.

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    1. Quite possibly. Hope you'll let us know how it turns out if you decide to give it a try.

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  10. Dad did the deed. Regular razor strapping's - BARE - until I was eighteen. Many a time I couldn't sit for days or an entire week. Of course this back in late 60's, norm not the exception then in rural Midwest.

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    1. Eighteen . . . that must have been pretty embarrassing. Where I grew up, spankings were often as forceful as you describe, but I think most stopped doing it well before 18. But, who knows . . .

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  11. I was physically disciplined by both parents as a child, though only my mother continued to occasionally 'hit' once I was in my teens. Both used different techniques and I hated both at the time but still preferred my mother's to my father's....which was to have me on my back on my bed, lift me by the ankles and swish a belt across my clothed bottom a few times. It stung but not terribly bad or long. It was really just to send a message to behave. My father was actually an exceptionally gentle person. The discipline thing always seemed out of character for him and I think he only did it because at the time it was expected.

    As a result I have ZERO connection to any desire for M/M interactions. Once I had a male use me for a demonstration on how to use a dog whip type implement that had a short braided 'trainer' end. But it was so respectful and clinical, it never registered as a real M/M interaction and even ended with two women then trying it out on me.

    My mother however, would take me bare-bottomed over her knee and spank with a wooden spoon. And it is THAT imagery that is lodged in my psyche!

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    1. Your last paragraph reinforces something I was thinking about a few days ago. Women are just practical and do what it takes to get the job done, and they don't feel guilty about that. It may be why so many of them are open to DD, even if they don't initiate it. It's a practical solution to practical problems, so they take to it like a fish to water.

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    2. Your Mom left a very positive impression. (pun intended). After all adult spanking world is a special gift for us when you really think about it.

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    3. Hi Dan,
      Wow! You really hit that on the head! In fact, I have been pretty stunned at just how matter-of-factly my wife has approached this whole thing. Sure, it has also become a big turn-on for her over time, but there is also a huge "get it done" orientation to it as well. And yes, other than the seemingly inevitable worrying in the beginning about hurting me, she has really taken to it like a fish to water!

      -ZM

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  12. This is Elizabeth, I posted once before. My husband had a father who paid him little attention and was not involved in discipline at all. Since all punishment, including spanking, came from his mother, it makes sense that as an adult he wanted to be punished by his wife. But he also has confessed a fantasy of wanting to be severely punished by a man in my presence. He wants to know that he can't refuse even if he wanted to, unlike with me. And he has said that he would like this fantasy to actually be enacted.

    This speaks to exactly what others have mentioned. I think in his fantasy his father and mother are punishing him together, as they never did in real life. And that it is totally nonconsensual. Finally in this fantasy he would be getting the parental attention from his "father" that he never actually received.

    He thinks this would provide him some sort of closure. I have reservations and have not seriously considered making it a reality. But he clearly has had father issues his entire life. Comments?

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    1. Hi Elizabeth. I understand his fantasy, but I wonder whether it is really very easily fulfilled? Most of the men here who have talked about going to "pros" have commented about how it just doesn't work, because there is no emotional connection. Isn't his fantasy about a man likely to turn out the same way? He's looking for a real father "connection," which is probably the last thing he is going to get from some random guy who participates in a spanking scene.

      I think whether it works all depends on what really motivates him. If it is the "totally non-consensual" thing, I understand that. That part might be satisfied by a spanking from a dominant man. But, if it is the need for a father figure who bring the emotional connection he didn't have, I wonder if that is easy to find. . .

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    2. This whole thing about desiring a spanking from a man is outside of my wheelhouse. But I genuinely, and emphatically, embrace people fulfilling their dreams (or needs, or whatever you want to call them). So I am going to venture an opinion without any experience to back it up.

      As was mentioned somewhere in a previous post, Gay men seem to like spanking activities and usually have more creativity and sensitivity than the average male. (Sorry. But it's true).

      Perhaps making a connection like that to do a "scene" with could work. I have a great many gay friends so that's why I am even venturing his opinion. When we discuss relationship matters I find that we all deal with exactly the same issues. It's just people having lives.

      But I have observed that they generally show more diligence when performing tasks. One of my best freinds is in this category and I love the dude.

      All that said to help you consider the possibility. Who knows? I sure don't. :)

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    3. Elizabeth, your interpretation of your husband’s wish is plausible. I can see another possible explanation. One of the things that turns on many men who like to be spanked by their wives is the humiliation of it. But you know what is even more humiliating than being spanked by the woman one loves? Being spanked by another man in the presence of the woman one loves. I don’t know this from real life experience, but it is something I have fantasized about.

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    4. Anonymous' interpretation does seem like a plausible one for some men.

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    5. Though I did say above that I have no interest in being disciplined by a man, as I read Anonymous' comment, I can see how the huge amount of humiliation would make that a turn-on. But even for that to work for me (not that it ever would in real life) requires the female presence.

      -ZM

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    6. Hi Elizabeth,
      Arriving late here but I agree with Dan and especially wonder if being spanked in front of you by a male would bring any "closure". He may find it exciting although many men would rather have a root canal than allow another male to know they are spanked.I suspect he gets a lot of closure accepting you as his disciplinarian but his problems with his father probably need to be tackled from another angle. Continue to talk to him about it and try to understand what is missing for him. If he is strongly heterosexual serious discipline from one women is usually more than enough. If he is bi-sexual there are many things you can do as a couple to address that need that go beyond spanking
      Alan

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    7. Thanks for all your comments. They reinforce for me that it is probably not a good idea to try to find another man to punish my husband. Maybe I can help him find closure with his father in some other way. My husband is a good man, and we have a good marriage, and this is not a major issue. It just comes up every once in a while. I think it should remain part of his fantasy life.
      Thanks again,
      Elizabeth

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    8. Hi Elizabeth. There definitely can be worse things than unfulfilled fantasies. It's great though that you are supporting him and trying to help him figure things out.

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    9. Though, I also don't know how significant the downside would be. Perhaps the worst that would happen is the fantasy would not end up addressing the underlying need or live up to the expectation, but few fantasies do.

      In any event, thanks for joining, and I hope you'll follow up with comments to the current invitation for Disciplinary Wives to step up to the mic and tell us about themselves and their relationships. I hope to hear from you soon.

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    10. Definitely some interesting and thought provoking comments above. I have long had the fantasy of being punished by a dominant male and I think that it is exactly the lack of emotional connection that is the attraction. I would like my wife (who currently does a pretty good job of keeping me in line) to be there but not able to interfere with the severity. I was punished (by teachers) as a child, sometimes severely and of course I had no control over what happened - they decided how long, etc.

      In a DD relationship the undercurrent is love and that may be a restraining factor in severity and duration (although it almost never feels that way!). And it is most unlikely that this fantasy will come to life for a variety of reasons (I have raised it in conversation and I have the clear message that it is at least one step too far). TB

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    11. I can't say I have had a "fantasy" of being punished by a male, but it has happened a couple of times in dreams, and something in me does respond to it when I see it in DD fiction.

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  13. While my mother routinely spanked me with a pancake turner, my father spanked very hard with his bare hand, both parents on my bare bottom. When I was older, my father did not spank any longer but could be a bit of a bully when he had too much to drink.

    I was spanked once with a bare hand by an athletic neighbor boy I knew very well, when he was babysitting my brothers and me, a spanking which seemed largely unwarranted, and probably was. It was on the bare bottom, and hurt a lot. I was angry and ended up stealing some money from his jacket, which I later felt guilty about. He generally was a very nice guy, and even let me use one of his cars for a summer, without charge, when I was older. While he was very good looking, had a good personality, and dated women some, nothing ever came of these relationships. I now suspect he was homosexual and that this had something to do with why he never married, and with the unwarranted bare bottom spanking he gave me when babysitting. He possibly enjoyed doing it. Unfortunately, he died in his thirties at a time when AIDS was killing off a lot of homosexual men. If he was homosexual, he never attempted to engage me in any explicitly homosexual act. Shortly, before he died, I confessed to him about the stolen money, that I was prepared to pay back. But he just laughed and said not to be concerned about it.

    Today, I am spanked by my wife and welcome it, but I have absolutely no desire to be spanked by a man.

    Doug

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  14. Good contribution Doug. Hey you could always donate the stolen money amount to your local animal shelter and erase any smidgen of karmic debt you think might still exist..:)

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  15. Hi Dan
    Just saw your update and believe an absent or passive father can lead to a male seeking female discipline later in life especially if mom was the major or sole disciplinarian. But I don't think a father has to be absent. If mom becomes the kind of take charge women regarding discipline that many of us seem to seek out ( I sure did) than discipline and punishment become so associated with the female that dads presence or lack of it matters less.To me today discipline from a female or the threat of it is perhaps the single most powerful influence on me and my behavior. But if I was threatened with a spanking by a male I would probably just laugh it off. And if it actually happened I would be resentful rather than fulfilled by it ( unless my wife ordered it which is very unlikely to ever happen. ( she has by the way threatened to spank me in front of my brother in law which is enough to turn me into an altar boy for a month).
    Alan

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    1. Hi Alan. Your reference to being spanked in front of another male, specifically someone you have an ongoing relationship, illustrates for me that while Anonymous above is right that humiliation may be a turn-on for some men, it's not for me. Or, at least not that particular form of humiliation. While I am fairly open to the thought that my wife could choose to make others aware of the nature of our relationship, like you the threat of a spanking in front of a relative or close acquaintance makes my stomach turn, and not in a good way.

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    2. Humiliation kink is a funny thing. The dividing line between humiliation that arouses and humiliation that makes the stomach turn in a bad way is very thin. Also, some humiliations that seem sexy in fantasy would be emotionally and socially destructive if they really happened. Though I find the fantasy of being spanked by another man in front of my wife arousing, the other man in the fantasy has to be kind of abstract. Injecting any guy I actually know in r/l into the fantasy ruins it.

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