Hello
all. Welcome back to the Disciplinary Couples Club. Our weekly
gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, Domestic
Discipline and Female Led Relationships. I hope you had a great week.
Mine was a
tiresome mix of busy and boring. We remain pretty slow at work.
When that happens, I generally double down on trying to find more business,
grow more business, and network, network, network. Which means lots of
travel, lots of socializing and lots of opportunities for bad behavior.
That was pretty much the story of this week; running around all over the country and "networking" my way into a bad cold and general exhaustion.
I haven't formally reported this to my wife, but she knows about it. Even so, I do need to get into some real self-reporting routine. But, it's an ongoing struggle, and one I need to work on in some focused way. I'll probably turn that into a topic in the near future, though we've covered it a lot. In fact, the best evidence that I'm struggling with reporting and that I'm focusing more on getting away with rule breaking than owning up to it and "taking my medicine" is that the last time I devoted a topic to self-reporting was about this time last year, yet nothing has really changed. We come up with plans for formalizing and improving our reporting regimen, but it never seems to stick.
I haven't formally reported this to my wife, but she knows about it. Even so, I do need to get into some real self-reporting routine. But, it's an ongoing struggle, and one I need to work on in some focused way. I'll probably turn that into a topic in the near future, though we've covered it a lot. In fact, the best evidence that I'm struggling with reporting and that I'm focusing more on getting away with rule breaking than owning up to it and "taking my medicine" is that the last time I devoted a topic to self-reporting was about this time last year, yet nothing has really changed. We come up with plans for formalizing and improving our reporting regimen, but it never seems to stick.
Another thing that happened last week, as some of
the geekier among you probably noticed, is that Stan Lee, founder of Marvel Comics, died. I definitely was just such a geek growing up, and I'm not
embarrassed by that at all. There were worse places to go than Marvel comic
books for life lessons on heroism, and trying to do the right thing in the face of long odds, and that
sometimes even if you are really strong and really smart and try really hard,
things still don't work out the way you hope. It was a complex picture he painted, which is why Marvel eventually crushed its rivals like DC, with its wooden characters and easy morality.
Now, it is also true that Marvel's female superheroes were super hot, and drawn to spike the hormones of your average teenage boy, though. Surely that was part of the allure for me at that age, but I don't really remember it that way. I was reminded of just how overtly sexy Marvel's heroines were when I googled information on Stan Lee and Marvel's history after hearing about his death. For whatever reason, my interest in DD has been running pretty high recently, and my mind was highly inclined in that direction as I looked for information on early Marvel comics. Next thing I knew, I was googling for spanking references in comics and cartoons. I found almost nothing of that sort in Marvel comics. I can only conclude that although Mr. Lee and is artists had a thing for voluptuous, powerful women, they didn't fantasize about those heroines swinging paddles. DC Comics (home to Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman), on the other hand, had LOTS of spanking references. While almost all of it involved M/f spanking scenarios, there were also more than a few M/M examples. Curiously, there were very, very few examples of women spanking men. It's also interesting how spanking references waned over time. I found a lot of spanking examples in comics from the 30s through the early 50s, then it tapered off precipitously.
It was in the course of this historical "research" on spanking and cartoons/comics that I found this:
Now, it is also true that Marvel's female superheroes were super hot, and drawn to spike the hormones of your average teenage boy, though. Surely that was part of the allure for me at that age, but I don't really remember it that way. I was reminded of just how overtly sexy Marvel's heroines were when I googled information on Stan Lee and Marvel's history after hearing about his death. For whatever reason, my interest in DD has been running pretty high recently, and my mind was highly inclined in that direction as I looked for information on early Marvel comics. Next thing I knew, I was googling for spanking references in comics and cartoons. I found almost nothing of that sort in Marvel comics. I can only conclude that although Mr. Lee and is artists had a thing for voluptuous, powerful women, they didn't fantasize about those heroines swinging paddles. DC Comics (home to Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman), on the other hand, had LOTS of spanking references. While almost all of it involved M/f spanking scenarios, there were also more than a few M/M examples. Curiously, there were very, very few examples of women spanking men. It's also interesting how spanking references waned over time. I found a lot of spanking examples in comics from the 30s through the early 50s, then it tapered off precipitously.
It was in the course of this historical "research" on spanking and cartoons/comics that I found this:
I found some
other, very sexy, rip-offs of Dagwood comics that depicted Blondie being spanked, but
those were by other "artists", aka plagiarists. But, the one above appears to be the
real deal, with the original artist's name in the lower right corner. I find the strip totally fascinating, because although it appears to be a few decades old, it touches on a lot of themes we talk about
here in late 2018: Rules. Consequences. Effective
implements -- I love it that she is using a very large paddle or board!
Witnesses. Should it be hidden from the kids? After effects.
Friends knowing or suspecting. There is just so much going on in those six panels that we talk about here every week! And, it's all so . . . open. It
reminds me of the paradox we talked about a few weeks ago. We ask ourselves whether F/m adult spanking will become more socially acceptable over time, yet this strip makes me wonder whether perhaps our forebears were
more open about it than we are.
On to this week, and the topic is very loosely tied to the above. This weekend
was our annual Love our Lurkers. I'm pretty sure this was the lowest participation
we've ever had. I'm not sure what that's about, but since we've missed a
few days of regular comment posting, and we're going into a holiday week, I'm
not feeling particularly ambitious and don't expect a lot of commenting activity this week. So, let's keep it simple, following up on the above with
an open-ended discussion about spanking and discipline in popular and
not-so-popular culture. Let's also tie it into last week's "origins"
discussion.
I don't really recall being aware of many spanking references in the popular culture growing up. But, that may have been because it was just so pervasive in the "real" culture I grew up in. It was just part of the daily background. Kids were spanked at school. Teachers spanked. Principals spanked. If you were spanked at school, you got another, harder one at home. Kids were taken out of church and spanked for acting up. Extended family members were welcome to get into the act, with grandparents, aunts, uncles and others feeling absolute freedom to deliver a spanking when babysitting or hanging out at family events. Perhaps because it was all around me, I don't recall noticing any particular example of it on television or in the movies or magazines.
I don't really recall being aware of many spanking references in the popular culture growing up. But, that may have been because it was just so pervasive in the "real" culture I grew up in. It was just part of the daily background. Kids were spanked at school. Teachers spanked. Principals spanked. If you were spanked at school, you got another, harder one at home. Kids were taken out of church and spanked for acting up. Extended family members were welcome to get into the act, with grandparents, aunts, uncles and others feeling absolute freedom to deliver a spanking when babysitting or hanging out at family events. Perhaps because it was all around me, I don't recall noticing any particular example of it on television or in the movies or magazines.
But, I'm also not one of you who was drawn to spanking themes at an early age. For those of you who were fascinated by it early on, did you notice cultural references to it outside your "real" life? What are the earliest, or most compelling, references to spanking you
recall in the popular culture? Do you recall those getting your attention
in some special way? And, do you have any favorite examples of spanking
in popular culture?
One very explicit one that was around when I was growing up but that I found only recently is a song by The Pretenders. It came out in 1981 and was called, with a decided lack of subtlety, Bad Boys Get Spanked. Here are the lyrics:
One very explicit one that was around when I was growing up but that I found only recently is a song by The Pretenders. It came out in 1981 and was called, with a decided lack of subtlety, Bad Boys Get Spanked. Here are the lyrics:
You
know you're not allowed to
But
you seem to get some kind of kick
Out
of doing what you're not allowed to
You
deliberately defy the rules
'Cause
the law's upheld by fools
Shit
on that
Bad
boys get spanked
You
can look but don't touch
But
no you can't resist
Don't
you ever think about the consequence
Guys
like you never do
That's
the kind of stuff boys are made out of
That's
the kind of stuff girls are made out of
Bad
boys get spanked
Bad
boys get spanked
You
don't listen do you asshole
Don't
be a punk all your life
Someone's
gonna sort you out
They'll
try to make a man out of you
Say
yes sir, say no sir
Say
yes ma'am, say no ma'am
Shit
on that
Bad
boys get spanked
Bad
boys get spanked
Get
spanked, get spanked
Come
here, get spanked
Bad
boys get spanked
Come
here, get spanked
Now, a girl who I was very into in high school was a big Pretenders fan. She always was a little advanced for our part of the country. . . .
I hope you have a great week, and a happy Thanksgiving.
While this would qualify more as marital abuse than as a wife-led DD comic-book marriage, "Bringing up Father" featured Jiggs and his constantly-nagging, rolling-pin-wielding wife Maggie. Does anyone besides me remember them?
ReplyDeleteDoug
It was definitely "marital abuse," since Maggie tended to throw vases at Jiggs... --C.K.
DeleteLucy was regularly spanked by Desi on I Love Lucy. I would watch for that and be excited by it. Also, the Saturday Evening Post had several Norman Rockwell covers of spanking. It was more accepted then because it was not considered abuse to spank your children or your spouse!
ReplyDeleteI recalled that Lucy was spanked, but looking it up on YouTube just now, I had no idea just how often it happened! It's interesting when you think that the censors at the time required marital bedrooms to be shown with two separate beds, to avoid any hint that sex might happen there. Yet, taking your wife over your knee . . . no problem.
DeleteIf I'm not correct each time Lucy got spanked was when she lied to Desi or did something she
ReplyDeleteknew was wrong and tried to deceive him. As if she was showing him she needed to be over
his knee!
sam
Good point.
DeleteDon't forget those notoriously naughty "Katzenjammer Kids" who weekly defied some authority figure usually to end up getting a good spanking for their efforts. It's still in syndication I think although I have's encountered it for years. It may have been the most spanking oriented of the comic strips
ReplyDeleteAlan
I'll have to look that up.
DeleteBased on Wiki, Desi had a real-life need to be over her knee, not the other way around - for womanizing and excessive drinking.
ReplyDeleteDr Seuss the 500 hats of Bartholomew Cubbins. That spanking at the end was one of the earliest that stuck...6 or 7 years old when I read it.
ReplyDeleteI don't recall that one. I'll have to look it up.
DeleteThe earliest I remember that also had true lasting impact on me was an illustration of The Old Woman Who Lived in a Shoe that hung on my bedroom wall next to a matching one of Jack & Jill. In it the woman is seen spanking one her kids' bare bottom.... which was already pink. I have since tried to find a sample of that illustration on the Internet but with no luck. There were countless other references but that one somehow made the biggest impression.
ReplyDeleteI kind of remember that one, too. Also one from Pinocchio involving a mechanical clock that featured a mother spanking a bare-bottomed boy.
Delete"She spanked them all soundly and put them to bed."
DeleteThere are several classic nursery rhymes which refer to corporal punishment.
DeleteBeside "The Old Woman Who Lived in a Shoe" (I also remember one book which had an illustration showing her whipping a child's bare bottom with a bundle of switches), there is "Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son" (assuming that "beat" meant on his rear end), and "Little Polly Flinders": "Her mother came and caught her, and spanked her naughty daughter, for ruining her nice clean clothes."
There's even a final verse to "Jack and Jill," added later on, in which Jill is "whipped" by their mother for laughing at Jack's injuries... --C.K.
Part 1
ReplyDeleteHi Dan and DD/FLR community! I didn't know if I should submit my very first message on this post or the "Love Our Lurkers" post. I'll put it here and see what happens :P
My wife, R, and I recently started spanking. I spank her for fun sometimes, she spanks me so I stop doing stupid shit. It works. I suppose we are a domestic discipline couple now, but it is more of a dd as oppose to a DD, and it cuts both ways. We both have our areas where we need improvement. We're also very aware of the things the other person is much better at, so we simply defer to one another when it is relevant.
I'd hesitate to say we're moving towards a Female Led Marriage, because she has no interest (or to use Dan's words, a negative interest, in fact) in any of the responsibility that would go along with an FLR.
I have however ceded authority to her to spank me whenever she wants, for however long she wants, and for whatever reason she wants. So far, she has the normal concerns: is it too hard, is it too much, will our dynamics change in a way I don't like. The first two concerns are mostly mitigated, as I have an iron ass as it turns out. The last one I'm not too concerned about, because, as I said, she doesn't want that much power. This remains true, even after tasting power, mwahahahahaha!
I think the difference in how we do it is that the discipline goes both ways. That distinction might make it so I won't be allowed to comment on this blog, but I hope not. I do like nice, well moderated blogs, lol. Anyway, I don't spank, I tickle. It isn't as cute as it sounds. This tickling is to playful tickling as a disciplinary spanking is to playful foreplay spanking. She hates it and will do almost anything to avoid it. 15 seconds will about have her in tears. She doesn't like spanking either, but tickling makes her contrite, whereas spanking just pisses her off.
Speaking of tears, that's how this all started. It was this last month, and I thought I'd give Locktober* a try. It didn't go great, but we did talk a lot. In one of the conversations, R, said that in all the times we'd been together, she's only seen me cry a couple of times, and she said it probably isn't healthy to bottle things in. I quipped that it would probably take massive amounts of pain... Little did I know, lol.
Best,
Z
Hi Z. Thanks for joining. I'll combine my responses to both your comments here.
Delete-- I have the same "iron ass" issue. Though, many years into this, spankings seem to be getting more painful, not less. I really don't know whether my ass is getting more sensitive or her arm is getting stronger!
-- The desire for power can be a slow build. Let's see where things are a couple of years from now.
-- I don't have a problem with comments from couples in which the discipline goes both ways. I think I personally would find it confusing, and my wife has no interest at all in being spanked, so for us it's kind of a non-issue. What I have a problem with and will use moderation to prevent sometimes is people who really aren't in DD relationships but still love to give everyone the benefit of their wisdom and insight about it. Also, those who get all "judge-y" about their particular way of doing it. And, then there is "Sean" . . . ;-)
-- It's great that she brought you to tears. I think the order of implements can be critical in keep the pain level high. Leather before wood. My bottom goes numb with paddles at some point, almost every time. The bath brush and spoon-shaped paddles seem a little less prone to causing numbing, probably because the surface area is smaller.
-- I agree with you that in an ideal world, her strictness would drive the process and not my self-reporting. And, I think as she gets more and more comfortable with the FLR side of things, that may happen. But, the self-reporting will still probably be necessary, because some things that I really do need to work on she has no real way of knowing about if I don't report honestly. Things like drinking too much while on the road. Or, breaking a diet I've been trying to stick with. Or, losing my temper with someone at work (usually a superior; I try not to "punch down). There is really no way for her to take care of those things if I don't report. Also, part of our goal has been to balance things out by "bringing me down a peg." Self-reporting is something I find more humbling than the actual spanking.
Thanks again for participating.
Tangent alert: going off track.
DeleteDan - you mentioned an order of implements. One thing we are stuggling with is when my rear does go numb. We have loomed at positions and changing implements, but not order. What order would you recommend to "optimize" use?
SR, I think the ordering really comes down to, don't start with wooden paddles, especially heavy ones. If your wife tends to mix and match, I'd go with leather straps, loopy johnnys, etc.>>>small footprint wooden instruments like the bath brush or spoon-shaped paddles>>> and ending with larger paddles. We've also experimented with rubber straps. My butt did not go numb with them, but they just did too much damage. I'm also not sure where canes should go in the mix. For years, they were not part of her arsenal, but she is experimenting with them more and more. I'm starting to think that there is a substantial timing element that should dictate the use of tools, with longer sessions focusing on straps, belts, and other flexible tools that tend not to numb, and perhaps wooden implements with small surface areas. It may be that both canes and large paddles should be reserved for sessions that are supposed to be short but very intense
DeleteOf course, it occurs to me I should have asked, "optimize" from whose perspective? The order I suggested was designed to maximize disciplinary impact by minimizing numbing. Some recipients might think numbing is just fine and that my suggested order is exactly backward. :-)
DeleteDan,
DeleteThanks for the long and thoughtful reply. That is exactly the thing that got me from lurking to participating. You're a talented writer and communicator.
SR,
On the topic of The Order of Implements (which, come to think of it, sounds kinda like a subtitle for a Harry Potter fan-fic), we've found in our limited time doing this that an effective session kind of has the shape of a spinning top. It's tapered at both ends, whiny a large middle, if that makes sense. So we go from stingy to mid-heavy. Then we coast on very heavy for the majority of the session. Then she finishes me of with super-extra stingy and possibly some more mid or heavy implements. It's the super stingy one that cuts right through all the numbing though.
1) riding crop (stingy) 3-5 mins
2) hair brush (light heavy) 3-5 mins
3) heavy strap (heavy) 10-15 mins
4) dressage whip (super-extra stingy) 5 mins
5) At this point, R decide if the punishment is over or if she wants to revisit 2 or 3. I'm not in a position to argue one way or another, lol.
We've named that dressage whip The Red Devil, because it is very, very effective. I haven't tried a cane because it squicks R, but the dressage whip seems to be doing the job. It was $11 at the local farm store :P
Best,
Z
I've never heard of a dressage whip, but it certainly looks like it could get the job done.
DeleteDan - Thanks. We are starting to look at it more and by optimize I mean get the most "bang" for the time spent. While she is willing to do this, we also have kids and like to sleep also.
DeleteWe are working on not wasting time or energy. For example, the lexan paddle hurts...unless my butt already had a good paddling with something else. Then it is too light to do anything. We are still experimenting and it may be a while before we figure it out.
SR
Yeah, early on I read about the "terrors" of the Lexan paddle and bought one. It just didn't seem as effective as a similarly-sized wood paddle. If the goal is a really short paddling that just hurts like hell--in other words, a great ratio of discipline to time spent--the rubber straps are probably the best tools we tried. But, I've written before here about tools that were "too much," and those qualified. They were this interesting blend of the "best" qualities of leather and wood. Flexible. Terrible sting and impact. No numbing. But, they also had a tendency to cut do significant damage, which sometimes brought the spanking to a premature conclusion. While undeniably effective, I have a hard time recommending them as a real "discipline" tool.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteSo we got some implements, and gave it a try. At first, my ass would get numb before any real pain was felt. We tried a few times, and were resolved that maybe it wouldn't happen. Then she got stubborn. She made me cry. It was just over a week ago. It started with a wooden spoon, sequed to a thick leather strap, and ended with a dressage whip. I was sobbing at the end. It was cathartic.
ReplyDeleteIn the time between when we started and when she made me cry, we decided that it's best to use spanking to correct things I want to correct about myself. They tend to be major things like procrastinating and not following through on things I say I'll do. She doesn't spank seriously for small things. She'll spank for not emptying the dishwasher, but it is more like a game. She'll seriously beat my ass for things like not emailing a teacher by a specified time after I agreed to do it.
We make daily goals together. If she doesn't meet one, she gets tickled. If I don't meet mine, I get whipped.
I should mention that we have been together since we were teenagers, that was almost 20 years ago, we are modestly affluent, we had great communication before spanking, we are polyamorous, and a little bit kinky.
Enough about us.
Dan, I was thinking about this part of this post:
I haven't formally reported this to my wife, but she knows about it. Even so, I do need to get into some real self-reporting routine. But, it's an ongoing struggle, and one I need to work on in some focused way. I'll probably turn that into a topic in the near future, though we've covered it a lot. In fact, the best evidence that I'm struggling with reporting and that I'm focusing more on getting away with rule breaking than owning up to it and "taking my medicine" is that the last time I devoted a topic to self-reporting was about this time last year, yet nothing has really changed. We come up with plans for formalizing and improving our reporting regimen, but it never seems to stick.
I am wondering if you might benefit from some sort arrangement where you can hold your wife accountable if (and only if) she isn't holding you accountable. I know you said this is about self reporting, but that seems like it would be less likely to happen if the plans were formalized and stuck, which also seems like it may fall on more of her shoulders than yours. I know you have a negative interest in spanking your wife, and I don't presume to know the dynamics of your relationship beyond what you graciously share with us, so please take this as a polite suggestion and nothing more. There are more ways to discipline than spanking, maybe something different can become necessary when all else fails.
And as for the topic at hand. I remember a wooden sign in my parent's tattoo shop that had a woman being spanked. It stuck with me.
*Locktober lasted 36 hours for me. It turns out that R and I are too switchy for either run the show for extended periods of time. Chastity is a kink we're fine to dabble in, but not long term.
Thanks for letting me share,
Z
Hi Dan, Happy Thanksgiving a day late!
ReplyDeleteI agree about the climate when we were younger. Spanking/discipline was just a common part of life, so it was somewhat taken for granted. However, since I "discovered" spanking, dominance, etc. at a young age, I can tell you that anytime I came across any reference to anything like this, it got my attention and generally made me feel temporarily breathless.
Having said that, when I started to think about popular cultural references to spanking this week, I really couldn't think of many. It took a while to rewind my brain to pre-internet times and to remember just how turned on I used to get by anything I came across, whether songs like Hanky Panky (by Madonna) or countless movies I rented just because they either contained a spanking scene, including such artistic masterpieces as "Sorority Babes in the Slimeball Bowl-O-Rama!" Truly the internet changed everything, so now it is easy to find just about anything, but back in the day, even subtle references to spanking (in any form) definitely captured my thoughts and captivated me.
-ZM
HI ZM. Happy Thanksgiving to you, too!
ReplyDeleteYour comment raises an issue I've never really thought about, i.e. whether those who had an early fascination with disciplinary or erotic spanking also had an early EXPOSURE to it. As you say, growing up where and when I did, spanking was so common it was taken for granted. So, I definitely was "exposed" to spanking early on. But, I do not recall being exposed to adult spanking or erotic spanking at all when growing up. I had a normal to higher than normal adolescent sex drive, which led me to actively seek out the normal Playboy and Penthouse erotic fare. But, I just don't recall running into spanking or dominance material. (Now, what I do remember is finding a box of adult magazines that a previous owner (accidentally?) left behind in a house we bought. Many of them were biker magazines with naked women draping themselves over custom choppers. Maybe that accounts for my ongoing love of motorcycles? ;-)
You're right about how much the internet changed. I think my first exposure to anything really "kinky" was actually in or shortly after college, in the small, segregated "adult" section of a news/magazine store in the town where I attended college. It says a lot that even in that very liberal college environment, you had to go to a controlled section of a single store to find any such material. But, I don't recall that any of the material I found there had anything to do with spanking. Actually, most of it was about swinging. I do seem to recall one magazine centered on semi-nude photos of women in Dominatrix gear, but I don't recall being much more than normally turned on by it. While I think some of that material did awaken me to kink in general, it still wasn't until a decade later when I was exposed first to something related specifically to adult spanking, then to the DWC and its material on adult *corporal* spanking, that this obsession developed.
Come to think of it, there is a pretty good spanking scene in an episode of Weeds. The main character, Nancy, is spanked by a politician/drug-lord. It happens suddenly when she is being insolent, it is clearly disciplinary, and she ends up being turned on by it.
ReplyDeleteShould probably mention that it isn't consensual, but I guess that's maybe to be expected from politicians who moonlight as drug king pins ...
Z
It took awhile, but I found it. You're right - pretty good.
Delete