The Forum - Vol. 176 - Stumbling Blocks

Be careful what you wish for.  You might get it.

Hello all.  Welcome back to The Forum, our weekly gathering of men and women who are in, or interested in being in, Domestic Discipline or Female Led Relationships.

And, increasingly a gathering place for those who are not so interested.  I think we hit some kind of new low on the blog last week.  A tiny number of on-point or semi-on-point comments, and then a whole bunch of trying to draw everyone into debates about "is this all real" and "why the sexual aspect" and "is DD really a good thing" that I seem to be attracting an awful lot of lately.  Some of this is probably the price of "fame", which I say very tongue in cheek.  But, earlier this year, we started getting up to around 2000 visitors a day, and that is going to attract a broader range of views for sure. Though, there are two things I find really interesting about all this. First, Blogger tracks the most common search terms that lead every blog, including this one. The terms that people are using when finding this blog are aimed squarely at F/m discipline and corporal punishment. Here are the top ones for this week leading to this blog:

disciplined husband
discipinedhubbies
spanked hubby
spanked husband
f/m wife punishing husband stories
spankedhubby
spanked husbands
well disciplined husbands video
wife led marriage and discipline

Plainly, based on terms people are inputting, they are looking for precisely this kind of content.  They aren't stumbling on it by accident and then taking offense at what they inadvertently found.  I also find comments from the same detractors on multiple blogs so, again, they are plainly spending a hell of a lot of time surfing websites devoted to content that they supposedly disagree with.

Second, the lack of anything approaching a 1:1 ratio between total reader growth and total comments from people in active DD and FLR relationships is puzzling.  The growth in total daily readers has been exponential over the last year, jumping from around 300 to 500 to 1000 to almost 2000 daily.  But, the number of active commenters has stayed about the same over that time period.  And, the number of commenters actively participating in DD and FLR relationships seems to have plateaued, while the number of comments from doubters, detractors and outright trolls has jumped.  (Or, maybe it's just that they get an out-sized part of my attention, which I probably need to work on myself.)

So, given all that, I admit that part of me takes umbrage at the people who don't agree with the lifestyle but still keep coming here and still keep leaving comments, most of them aimed at wanting me to change the focus in one way or another.  And, it is definitely an exercise in "you can't please everyone."  Some want me to use a heavier hand in moderating content, especially stuff that they personally don't like or deem to be a fantasy. Of course, what they deem to be fantasy is usually whatever they themselves are not practicing.  A fairly coarse filter indeed.  Others bitch when it is their ox being gored and I fail to post, or take down, one of their comments because it isn't on topic or is anti-DD or takes potshots at other commenters.  So, again, you can't please everyone.  It was with that thought in mind that I originally intended to use as this week's topic the most recent reader poll, which was on pre-spanking erections.  Doing so would have been my own little "screw off" to anyone who has been griping about sexualized content on the blog.  And, I definitely had no intention of going down the "devote a topic to everything random people don't like about domestic discipline and FLR" rabbit hole that has been suggested in some comments.

But, it did occur to me as I mulled it some more over my Saturday morning coffee, that there are people who visit this blog who are new to DD and FLR or contemplating giving it a try, and it may be beneficial for the veterans to give the newbies an idea of where the stumbling blocks and hurdles are likely to occur.  Not "what is wrong with DD or FLR" but "what is particularly likely to go wrong with their DD and FLR."

Therefore, that is this week's topic.  We all came to DD and FLR from some other state of things -- many of us from a much more traditional or "vanilla" state of affairs.  Most of us probably came into it with some kind of pre-conceived notions or desires about what it would, or should, be like.  But, I'm sure that, as has happened throughout our DD relationship, the wishes and desires sometimes collide with everyday reality.  Real life just gets in the way -- a lot.  Or, what the two people find attractive, or not attractive, about their FLR and DD practices is not quite in synch.  So, what have the stumbling blocks and hurdles been for you as you have tried to implement DD or FLR into your real life? To get the ball rolling, here are a few of mine:

Family Distractions:  For me, the number one stumbling block, hurdle, interference, etc. that has repeatedly frustrated us really getting into a groove with FLR and DD has been the presence of kids around the house.  It is just very, very hard to find private time for discipline, or to openly practice an FLR, with kids around.  To the point that, if I had to do it all over again, I wish (a) we had started earlier; and (b) we had been more open about it.  I know that many readers disagree with that last part, but I have personally become more convinced that kids get used to pretty much anything, and if the couple is open that "She wears the pants," the kids will adapt to that reality.  It doesn't mean I think discipline should happen in the open. Adult activities are adult activities.  But, it could mean that a well-deserved spanking happens that evening after the kids are in bed, and that if they overhear then they overhear.  My own personal preference (one almost certainly NOT shared by my wife, by the way) would be to be more open about the nature of our relationship, and let those chips fall where they may.

Positions & Tools: This is one where, in my experience, the expectations may diverge radically from the reality.  We all see the DD and FLR drawings and pictures with the man draped compliantly over her lap in classic OTK position, and she delivers a devastatingly effective disciplinary spanking with a hairbrush.   For most, the reality is that OTK doesn't work particularly well for the giver or  the receiver and is generally uncomfortable and hard to maintain, and a hairbrush is generally not a very effective disciplinary tool. The combination of the two may be particularly bad, because she may not be able to generate sufficient force in the OTK position, and that force is being delivered through a fairly light instrument.  It also is surprisingly hard to find a really heavy, solid hairbrush these days.  Now, the bath brush . . . that is an entirely different story.  What a difference that few extra inches in length and extra heft can make.

Work Distractions:  We have always had a hard time really getting momentum with the FLR, because about the time she starts stepping up strongly as a leader, I take off on a business trip or get so pummeled with work that I'm just not around.  If there is any fix for this one, I have not personally found it.

Consistency:  Rebecca talked last week about not wanting to always be "on" when it comes to leading and FLR. I totally get that, and I sympathize.  I personally do need, however, for there to be a lot of consistency in terms of setting boundaries, in order for me to really adjust my behavior, and also for me to feel any real internal emotional change as a result of being made to submit.  I also have heard from Disciplinary Wives and female HoH's whose primary concern isn't being "on" too much but, rather, worry that if they really live the FLR and take on the lead role all the time, he will resent it.  It's really the opposite of worrying about being "on"  all the time. She wants to step fully into the role but worries it will be "too much" for him. I honestly think that should not be a major concern for most women. Most of the men who want this also want it to be real and want it to be consistent.  Oh, we may resent it in the moment, but in the long-run it is what we want and need.

This is one of the points the detractors really struggle to grasp.  Men who want this usually don't "like" the spankings, but they do desire to get "real" ones when they are deserved.  They also want real boundaries and real consequences for crossing them. It is the reality of the relationship itself they want, and being subject to someone's discipline that they need.  They do not want it to be enjoyable at the time.  In fact, it is were enjoyable, they wouldn't want it. I honestly don't see why this one is so hard to understand, and I do feel like some of the detractors are being intentionally obtuse, or they really lack some intellectual subtlety.  It seems perfectly reasonable to me that someone can recognize that they may profit from something they don't particularly enjoy. I work out a lot, and I really hate cardio days.  After years of doing them, I still pretty much detest every moment on the treadmill.  But, unlike many of my peers, I'm in pretty good shape for a middle-aged guy, and I've been relatively free of a lot of the chronic health problems that start hitting guys my age.  So, I recognize that cardio is good for me, even if in the middle of a run I am hurting and wanting it to stop.

Incompatible Pros and Cons:  We've been actively practicing DD for over a decade.  I can truthfully say that I haven't really felt a "downside" to DD across that whole time. Where things have "failed," for me it has been about there not being enough rigor or consistency. In other words, the only downside has come from too little DD, not too much.  FLR? Well, that's a different story.  We have only been moving into something like a real FLR for the last year or so, and it is significantly more challenging for me, particularly certain aspects of it.  And therein lies the source of the quote at the top of the page.  I asked for the FLR, including specifically asking her to me more "directive" in the relationship, telling me what she wants done and holding me accountable for doing it.  For her, that has translated into more chores and more orders to do things she wants done.  Take out the garbage.  Clean the cat's litter box.  Sweep up the floors.  And . . . I have really hated almost every minute of that. Some men get off on the "service submissive" thing.  I go in the exact opposite direction.  I absolutely hate it.  And not because I don't like doing my fair share around the house.  I do that, and I always have.  I just hate, hate, hate being told what do to or being interrupted when I want to keep doing something else.  However, the theory behind our whole approach to FLR is kind of a yin and yang thing.  Being bossed around rubs me so much the wrong way, because my personality is so naturally anti-authoritarian, and that has gotten me in a lot of trouble.  Making me do things I don't like humbles and balances me and, in the long run, that is good.  For her part, she has not always been as strong a personality as she could be with some practice and if she would get over  being concerned about being perceived as "bitchy.

So, her bossing me around does serve both our long-term needs, but it does not give me any short-term gratification at all.  Her? Well, she really likes it.  It is the one part of this that has come totally naturally to her.  Socialization and habit sometimes get in the way of rigorous implementation, but the desire is definitely there.  She genuinely likes giving me orders and, moreover, likes that I do not like being ordered. After living with me for years, she likes that I struggle to submit and that it is hard and humbling for me. Now, one could say that this isn't really about incompatible desires, because I acknowledge the service serves a long-term purpose that is good for me. True.  But, I also believe that this people need to recognize going into a DD or FLR relationship that one spouse may need, want or like something that doesn't particularly appeal to the other.  In real relationships, you don't always get what you want, and sometimes you have to do something you don't like because the other person does like it.  And of course, if submission really is submission, then it may involve giving in to something you really do not like and that, unlike the "dislike" associated with a hard spanking, is something that you really don't want regardless of whether it serves a larger purpose.  You give in to her wishes, because that is what you have agreed to to do.  Now, this is all rather obvious in theory, but I find it very difficult in practice.

Well, this ended up being a lot longer and very different than what I had planned for today.  Let's now hear from some our our DD and FLR practitioners about those aspects of the relationship they have struggled with, and what they might do differently if they could do it again.

I hope you all have a good week.  As always, if you are new to this Forum, please stop by the Guestbook (see tab above) and tell us something about yourself and your DD or FLR relationship.