The Club - Meeting 478 - Post-Orgasm Spankings

Hello all. Welcome back to The Disciplinary Couple’s Club.  Our weekly on-line gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, a Domestic Discipline relationship.

 

I hope you all had a great week.  Mine was pretty sedate.  A lot of time spent preparing for an upcoming motorcycle excursion. Unfortunately, while the setting may end up looking like this, I doubt my traveling companion will:

 

 

Thanks to all of you who participated in our discussion regarding how BDSM and Domestic Discipline overlap, if at all, in your disciplinary histories and motivations.  It was a discussion that could have gone off the rails but was instead, at least in my opinion, thought-provoking and illuminating.  To me, it highlighted just how varied our predilections are, despite the strength of our shared in interest in DD. 

 

Near the end of the discussion, ZM observed: “This week’s topic is an interesting one. I am surprised it has drawn so little response, but maybe that is more a reflection on the time of the year and so on.”

 

I actually think the number of responses was okay, given the potentially controversial topic. But, I do think some seasonality has been in play over the last few posts, and it’s probably going to be worse this week, given the three-day holiday weekend here in the USA.

 

Therefore, given that many may be distracted this week, instead of creating a whole new post, I’m going to recycle an old one, in part in response to this topic suggestion from Anonymous:

 

However, post-orgasm spanking could be a completely separate topic. That if and how and how much it is used in relation to DD and what feelings or challenges does it cause? - Anonymous

 

 

We last addressed this topic a little less than two years ago, I kicked it off with these comments from K. and Alan:

 

K: J always has me climax before (rare) punishments and sometimes, but not always, before (more common) discipline/correction spankings (depending on how severe she wants to make the experience).

 

I absolutely hate it; It takes me completely out of the frame of mind where it's exciting and sexy, and the contrast between the "afterglow" feeling and the pain of the spanking is very stark. It's, I must admit, a very effective for her to make the spanking a real disciplinary event that I would NOT sign up for voluntarily.

 

But, interestingly, my MEMORY of those spankings are much more complex. I remember that my wife spanked me in a no-nonsense, definitely punitive way, and I find that to be a very erotic thing. So while it's not sexual in the moment at all, it reinforces something I find very erotic and and exciting.

 

I'm not RECOMMENDING it, but it does work for us in a way that's hard to explain.

 

Does that make sense?

 

I should also add: J isn't trying to make me miserable, quite the contrary, we want to make each other happy. But she feels that if she's going to discipline/punish me for something, it needs to be "real" and not something that I get pleasure or mixed signals from. And I have to agree, even if I hate it when she carries it out.

 

From K.'s description, it seems he and his wife have made the conscious choice to increase the level of "suffering" associated with a real punishment spanking.

 

Alan, while agreeing that post-orgasm spankings should be in a wife's arsenal, urged using it rarely.

 

K WRITES: “But she feels that if she's going to discipline/punish me for something, it needs to be "real" and not something that I get pleasure or mixed signals from.”

 

It is hard to disagree with her feeling about the “realness” of punishment. Making a man “cum” before punishment leaves no doubt that it is real. But I look at post orgasm spankings as the “nuclear option” to be used when all else fails, but not every time. I have experienced post orgasm punishment a handful of times and I do know how powerful they can be.

 

But for us, my wife can make a punishment spanking very real without making me cum before while holding the post orgasm out as an implicit threat if she feels it is needed.

 

I am not criticizing your wife or any other couples who use post-orgasm spankings routinely. And apparently some couples do use them regularly. Every couple has to learn what works for them, and I have heard the argument that spanking a male after orgasm often produces a shorter spanking and leaves less damage to the bum despite the pain. So it is actually more “merciful.”

 

Those arguments may well be correct and I have been convinced that administering post-orgasm must be in a disciplinary wife’s arsenal. But I do think it’s better to use it sparingly because removing the erotic charge (for us anyway) reduces that strong emotional bonding post-spanking can that makes DD so powerful.

 

(Responding to my comment that we have not done post-orgasm spankings and I kind of hope it stays that way): I agree with your sentiments with the caveat that if wife or girlfriend determines she wants it available, then it becomes a problem to make it a hard limit and still maintain a full DD or FLR relationship. I don't believe it is necessary but both women I have had a disciplinary relationship have bristled at the notion their authority was limited as far as using it. I think you have been fortunate that Anne hasn't used it and frankly I think I have been lucky that both women in my life used it very infrequently and mainly to make a point. However as K and several others report it MAY not be uncommon in female led DD relationships.

 

Personally I would like to see a fuller discussion of the practice: how many use it, how often, with what results, for what issues etc.

 

So, let’s once again give Alan and Anonymous that fuller discussion.  It’s not a discussion I can contribute much to, at least not based on any actual experience. It is an activity we have not engaged in (yet), and I am pretty glad about that.  I do recognize, however, that this might be one of those things where the rubber really meets the road regarding behavior correction.

 

I have no doubt that being completely relieved of the erotic or sexual tension and energy that may be bound up in the desire for DD leaves only pure punishment, and I can see it being option for very serious offenses if “lighter” forms of punishment haven’t worked.  

 

Also, it's just the nature of an orgasm to leave you feeling lazy and content -- about the last thing you would want after that is a long, hard spanking.  Of course, that is kind of the whole point of doing it that way.  I sometimes wonder whether removing all that energy would make it easier for me to get to real tears, but I kind of doubt it.  The two don’t seem connected, but I could be wrong.  

 

So, please let us know what your experiences have been, if any, with post-orgasm spankings.  If you haven't experienced them, what are your views on whether they should be incorporated into your disciplinary routine?  If you have experienced post-orgasm spankings, give us some details about how it's done and under what circumstances.  Also, one thing we didn't expressly address last time was the logistics.  Is there any specific procedure or ritual around the orgasm? Does it happen in her presence, as depicted in this drawing (which I think is by KD Pierre)?

I hope you all have a good week, and for those in the USA, hopefully you have a nice long weekend.

The Club - Meeting 477 - Domestic Discipline and BDSM

“Men always remember a woman who caused them concern and uneasiness.” —  Coco Chanel

 

Hello all.  Welcome back to the Disciplinary Couples Club.  Our weekly meeting of men and women who are in, or interested in being in, Domestic Discipline and/or Female Led (FLR) relationships.

 

Once again, before we get started, I would like to extend a specific invitation to our female readers to move from “lurker” to “commenter” status. We miss having you around.

 

I hope you all had a great week.  Mine again felt important with respect to Anne slowly getting more and more comfortable with exercising a new level of strictness. 

 

As is far too often the case, I went out with a friend and had too many beers. As is even more often the case, after I got home I decided it was a fine night to watch movies until late enough that it virtually guaranteed a bad morning.  But, this time, instead of letting that happen, Anne walked into my home office less than an hour after our normal bedtime and told me it was time to get wrap it up and get ready for bed.

 

Now, in the past, that kind of order often led to some resentment and outward shows of resistance.  This time, however, I complied without arguing, which is notable in and of itself.  The next morning, I was actually feeling a little proud of myself for this somewhat atypical instance of obedience in that particular context, but Anne greeted me in the kitchen with, “I guess you know what will be happening to you this afternoon?" 

 

I objected, “But, I obeyed when you told me to come to bed last night.”  Her response? “That's why you are getting one spanking instead of two.”

 

 

This all follows on a recent conversation we had; one that began while I was over her knee.  She was lecturing me during short breaks between volleys of swats and asked—somewhat rhetorically—“You’ve been spanked for this before. Do I just need to spank you more often to get through to you?”  Given that she was at that very moment wearing out my bottom with her bath brush, I found it difficult to agree, so I blurted out something very equivocal, like “Maybe, Ma’am.” 

 

Later, in bed, I was more honest, admitting candidly that there are things that DD hasn’t been that effective at eradicating and, yes, I think frequency and consistency, or lack thereof, are part of the problem.  It wasn’t an easy thing to admit, knowing that it was the equivalent of affirmatively asking for her to spank me more often. But, I also felt like her rhetorical question was right on the money regarding aspects of our dynamic that aren’t where they should be if actual, longer-term behavior change is the goal.

 

 

But, more on that in a later post.

 

Things were a little slow here on the blog last week, but we did get a few interesting responses to Alan’s topic about intimacy from DD.  I especially liked this from TB:

 

There is no question for me that spanking creates increased intimacy but it is in many ways an unbalanced intimacy in that I am fully exposed physically & emotionally. My journals, mostly daily, are very open. I am obviously very exposed during spanking and I almost always feel ‘reset’ after. It is very much ‘me focussed time’ and my wife is very happy & supportive of this element of our relationship. She has her, completely different needs which often create a similar intimacy.

 

Something about his “unbalanced intimacy” characterization seems spot on.

 

Alan summarized the responses to the topic as a whole this way:

 

“The comments above are especially rich in their resonance to my spanking-related sense of intimacy. Searching for a phrase or two that sums it up, I think vulnerability and openness come close: Spanking reduces or removes my ego and defensiveness, which otherwise gets in the way of connecting on a deep level with her.

 

As someone pointed out, there is an imbalance in this in the sense that I am the one who gets taken down (literally, in the case of my pants), and she is in control. But I think my openness brought about by being spanked acts to allow her to also open up, and intimacy between us can be the result.”

 

Although I don’t feel a sense of intimacy immediately before or during a spanking, I get what he means about how a spanking reduces or removes ego and defensiveness, which in turn leads to more open and fully honest conversations about needs and desires.

 

Also, in the spirit of welcoming more women to the discussion, I want to think Norton’s partner, A.J., for participating.  She provided a nice summary of benefits she and Norton get from DD respectively, many of which would be generally applicable to couples in these relationships:

 

My experience is that DD enhances intimacy in a variety of ways. For Norton, it grounds him, provides a form of reparenting or balances and compensates for his experiences during childhood. The focused loving attention, clear direct communication, clear consequences, and strong physical sensation of spanking, sometimes being held and reassured afterward, are in direct contrast to his childhood. It helps with his PTSD. This is a way to re-set his nervous system, and it works to ground him. For me, it challenges and compels me to consciously resist my familial and cultural conditioning by taking risks, asserting myself clearly, directly, and physically, and centering my experience and needs. I also really need to attend to whether or not I'm in the state of mind and at an energy level that allows me to be fully present for the encounter. We spend time talking about our feelings and observations as part of our DD in preparation for Discipline or maintenance spanking. The focused time we set aside for our regular sessions creates consistency, builds trust, and so fosters intimacy, sometimes without spanking, usually with.

 

With that recap, let’s move on to one of the other topics you all suggested a couple of weeks ago.  Antonio had this suggestion:

 

“I would be interested to know for how many couples DD goes beyond spanking and uses other avenues. I know our DD grew out of a BDSM situation so there are other things used as discipline in our relationship that others may not use. I would be curious to know about the different flavors of DD others have.”

 

Al followed up with:

 

“The discussion of DD as related to BDSM is certainly an idea. Did any of us come to DD from BDSM? Or did instituting DD lead to an exploration of other areas of BDSM, Femdom in particular (pegging, butt plugs, enemas, chastity devices, feminization, cuckolding)? However - Dan may not want to go there - it does venture outside the focus of his blog and perhaps risks casting DD unfavorably. Back in the day, when the DWC was a real club with a private Yahoo group, Aunt Kay absolutely did not allow any discussion of sex or BDSM in the group - and if we had all been local instead of virtual, she probably would have spanked anyone who brought it up."

 

Although I have said that this blog isn’t about Femdom or BDSM, I am not quite as rigid about the separation as it sounds like Aunt Kay was.  (As an aside, Al’s reference to Aunt Kay spanking the other men is something I have to admit I can’t help but feeling some regret at never experiencing.  Not because I think it would be fundamentally different from what Anne delivered but because I know it did happen, and her husband Jerry has even told me that if we had ever met in person, it almost certainly would have happened.  She had such a profound impact (no pun intended) on my life, I can’t help but think I missed something by not making that in-person connection, even if it would have ended quite painfully.)

 

I should say in advance, although I believe that DD and BDSM are very different things, I do think they have overlapping practices that make it hard sometimes to distinguish between the two.  Al’s comment indicates Aunt Kay lumped sex and BDSM together, and I do think the sexual context is different in DD and BDSM, respectively.  It’s not that I don’t think DD has strong erotic undertones, but I think they are undertones, while with BDSM they are almost the whole ballgame.  I see sexual energy and eroticism as a byproduct of DD, or sometimes a means that leads to other goals.  On the other hand, in a sense BDSM is sex, regardless of whether it culminates in intercourse.

 

I also believe the underlying motivations are very different.  I’ve always believed that if there is little or no emphasis on accountability, penance, and behavior modification, then whatever the couple is doing isn’t really DD. The word discipline in DD inherently defines and sets boundaries on the lifestyle is about. BDSM, on other hand, may have no behavioral modification or real punishment element.  That’s not to say that some BDSM practices might not be linked to things like accountability and penance, but those are not inherent in and necessary to BDSM in the way they are part and parcel of DD.

 

I also think there is an element of fantasy and intentional exploration of something “unreal” in BDSM that is almost the opposite of DD.  In fact, I once saw a comment from someone who was into comparing the two: “They do scenes.  We do life.”

 

 

With that long introduction, let’s talk about the topic of BDSM as suggested by Antonio and expanded upon by Al. 

 

Did you come to DD from BDSM?  Or, perhaps it was the other way around and you started with DD but later added BDSM elements?

 

Or, maybe you don’t think there are any overlaps between DD as you practice it and BDSM as you conceive of it?

 

For us, I guess you could say that we very briefly experimented with BDSM, though I didn’t label it that way at the time.  As I have said many times before, I discovered adult spanking via a segment on the old HBO series Real Sex. I don’t recall much about how I introduced it to Anne, but shortly after seeing it I bought a flimsy leather paddle at an adult “novelty” store. Our experiments didn’t last long, but it all reduced to a kind of foreplay, with scenes in which she pretended to be punishing me, but there was nothing “real” about it.  That phase was so short and so surface-level that I don’t really think about it as the beginning point for our DD, except in the limited sense that I’m sure that Real Sex segment was what stimulated enough interest on my part that I explored the subject of F/m spanking on the internet and stumbled on the DWC.

 

How about some of the specific practices Al associates with BDSM?  I’ll go through each of them and comment on whether it’s ever been a “thing” for us.

 

Pegging and butt plugs?  Am I wrong in believing that those are right up there with spanking in the extent to which they are pretty commonly experimented with among even fairly vanilla couples?  It’s something we tried a few times, several years ago.  The fact that we don’t today isn’t, I think, because either of us had an aversion to it.  It was just one of those kinky experiments that may not have generated enough interest to keep it up. That said, Anne has gained a huge amount of confidence in the intervening years, and I wonder whether she would be more dominant and aggressive with a strap-on today, such that it might feel like real punishment and/or a conscious means of establishing the hierarchy with her on top.

 

Enemas?  Not something we’ve ever done for sexual or disciplinary purposes.

 

Chastity devices?  This has never been my thing, though I do get the impression that they have some appeal for many wives who start exploring the FLR side of a disciplinary relationship. But, I don’t have many examples to point to in support of that proposition.

 

Feminization? This isn’t something Anne has shown any interest in, and my own interest is pretty limited.  At one point, I bought some male “panties,” which I wore not so much for sexual stimulation as because they kept my mind very focused on my ass, either before a spanking or after.  To me, it was almost like another kind of penance or accountability, which kept my mind on the prospect of a spanking or the after-effects of one.  Wearing them also was embarrassing enough--even though I was the only one who saw me in them--that it added some additional humbling to the experience.

 

Cuckolding and hot-wifing?  Anne has always had a problem with bringing third-parties into the relationship in any sexual way.  She admits to being very jealous by nature.  There are times that I find the concept of a “hot wife” or cuckolding relationship attractive, but mostly only as a fantasy.  I don’t think I’m as jealous as Anne, but I have a feeling that if anything like that ever became a reality, I would have a very hard time handling her having a relationship with another man. Though, perhaps interestingly, I don't find the prospect of her spanking another man disturbing at all.

As I said, while I don't think it would ever happen, I do sometimes fantasize about it or about scenarios that combine cuckolding and DD.  I also have some ongoing fantasies about Anne forcing a cuckolding relationship on me or ordering me to take a spanking from another man. I’m very confident it’s nothing we will ever explore in reality, but given how deeply rooted the idea of imposed discipline is in my DD motivations, I don’t think it’s surprising that having a M/m dynamic imposed on me has some theoretical appeal.

 

I know this subject is probably embarrassing for many of us, but since none of us are using our real identities, I hope you will feel free to open up a bit.  And, please, no judgey comments.

I’ll close with this somewhat funny coincidence, in light of this week’s topic.  As many of you know, I’m big into motorcycles.  A while back, I bought a collection of old editions of a magazine that was once popular in the biker community. Kind of a biker Penthouse, with pictorials of customized bikes adorned with semi-naked women.  Given the “macho” biker ethos, it was about the last place I expected to find a very Femdom-ish reference, yet here was this motorcycle advertisement on the back cover:

 

 

Have a great week.

The Club - Meeting 476 - Intimacy From Disciplinary Spankings

“I met an old lady once, almost a hundred years old, and she told me, 'There are only two questions that human beings have ever fought over, all through history. How much do you love me? And who's in charge?” ― Elizabeth Gilbert, Eat, Pray, Love

 

Hello all.  Welcome back to the Disciplinary Couples Club.  Our weekly meeting of men and women who are in, or interested in being in, Domestic Discipline and/or Female Led (FLR) relationships.

 

Once again, before we get started, I would like to extend a specific invitation to our female readers to move from “lurker” to “commenter” status. We miss having you around.

 

I hope you all had a good week.  Ours was pretty uneventful.  I’ve been chomping at the bit for some adventurous motorcycle day trips, but it’s a weird time of year weather-wise. I mowed my grass a week ago for the first time this season, then a few days later I was I stuck in my car thanks to a road closure due to snow.  But, all part of the joys of spring in the mountains.

 

 

Thanks to all of you who contributed to the discussion about future topics.  Keep the ideas coming.  This thing we do is a narrow enough topic in an of itself that I’m sometimes amazed that we’ve kept the conversation going for a decade. But it does sometimes get difficult to find even a new angle on the topics we’ve done before let alone to come up with anything truly novel. So, keep the ideas coming.

 

 

I don’t have a plan for doing the suggested topics in any particular order, so let’s kick things off with Alan’s suggestion:

 

Possible new topic -The sources and experience of intimacy in DD

 

Increased intimacy as a result of female-led DD has been touched on several times by comments. But I don’t believe we have ever tried to define or identify its source(s).

 

My former GF told me many years ago (after a spanking, I think) that “spanking is more intimate than sex.” Of note, this came from a woman who was not a spanko, although a strong believer in disciplinary spanking. My wife has similar thoughts but not so far as favorably comparing spanking to sex.

 

As a topic I envision, we might ask how many do experience intimacy from spanking, whether it is something both men and women experience, and where it comes from. What about disciplinary spanking produces feelings of intimacy ( if it does)?

 

There are many other directions a discussion could go. This blog and others have talked about the advantages of introducing spanking into a relationship. And there are many advantages, including facilitating a healthy power shift, powerful erotic expressions, behavior modification for naughty males, and more. However, intimacy is one of them for at least some couples. It might be interesting to try to answer how and why that is so."

 

I’m probably going to need to let the rest of you drive most of the conversation on this topic. To answer Alan’s initial question as phrased, I don’t experience intimacy from spanking.  At least not directly.  

 

After a spanking has been ordered but before it happens, my prevailing emotion is probably anxiety.  

 

Over the last year or two, we’ve used the OTK position almost exclusively.  While it is certainly a more intimate position than, say, bending over a chair, I still don’t really feel “intimacy” when going over her knee. 

 

During the spanking itself, I’m really just hating what is happening and trying to get through it.

 

Indirectly, however, after a spanking is over, it is very common for us to talk about it and about the DD and FLR aspects of our relationship.  A hard spanking leaves me in a much more open headspace.  

 

While getting through it is always an ordeal, when it’s over I do feel like the slate is clean, and I feel a strong sense of her strength in exercising her authority and control.

 

 

It’s probably in those moments immediately after getting spanked that I’m the most open about my feelings, specifically how I feel about being spanked by her, being in a DD relationship with her, and how I feel about being subject to her increasing authority.

 

I also open up a lot about what I feel I need, including the prospect of her taking on even more authority.  I’ve also gotten increasingly open about the desire for her to explore more of her “maternal” role, to the extent she’s comfortable with that. The openness and, indeed, desire to talk about what I'm feeling isn't part of my typical day-to-day makeup.  It's a direct result of feeling totally wrung out after a hard session over her lap, as I think this drawing by KD Pierre depicts so well.

 

 So, while I don’t experience intimacy directly from a spanking, some of our most intimate conversations have occurred as an after-effect of spanking sessions.

 

Journaling probably counts as another indirect form of intimacy that doesn’t come directly from a spanking but results from our spanking relationship.  Over the course of the years, I’ve disclosed a lot of intimate needs and desires, and given her some pretty candid information about how I’m feeling, in journal entries. While I have kept personal journals in various formats for many years, the journaling I’ve shared with Anne arose directly from our DD relationship.  So, again, while I don’t exactly experience intimacy from a spanking, it leads to much deeper and more open communication, which is either a form of intimacy or opens the door to it.

 

Does Anne feel intimacy from spanking?  I’m not really sure, but I think the answer is no except around communication, as I just described.

 

For a long time, she claimed that she didn’t enjoy or get aroused by the spanking itself.  Rather, she enjoys watching me get prepared for a spanking and gets turned on my watching me comply with her directions and orders, especially when she knows I’m struggling with it.

 

 

Recently, however, she did admit that she now likes having me over her knee. She didn’t use the word “intimacy” or suggest that’s what she feels.  I think what she likes is seeing me make myself vulnerable to her, which I guess is a form of intimacy.

 

How about you? Whether you are the giver or receiver, do you feel intimacy from a spanking, whether before, during, or after?  How about from the spanking relationship as a whole?  If you do feel intimacy related to spanking, do you have any insights on why?

 

I hope you all have a great week.

No Post This Week - Suggestions for Future Topics

Hello all.  I hope you're having a great weekend.  I was planning to post this week but, when I sat down to try to write something yesterday, I couldn't think of a single topic I was both interested in and that we hadn't done to death recently.  

Anne and I did have some interesting discussions this week about where we want to take the DD and FLR aspects of our relationship, but the discussions were mainly about things like severity, certainty and consensual non-consent, all of which have been major topics pretty recently.

If any of you have topic ideas, let me know.  I won't promise to use all of them (sometimes a topic just doesn't appeal to me enough to write about), but I clearly could use some brainstorming help.

Have a great week.

By the way, I saw this meme recently.  It has absolutely nothing to do with DD or FLR, but it made me laugh my ass off.