Sunday, October 18, 2020

The Club - Meeting 357 - Adventures in Humbling

“’Thank you,’ the old man said.  He was too simple to wonder when he had attained humility. But he knew he had attained it and he knew it was not disgraceful and it carried no loss of true pride.” – Ernest Hemingway, The Old Man and the Sea 

Hello all. Welcome back to The Disciplinary Couple’s Club.  Our weekly on-line gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, a Domestic Discipline relationship. 

 

   

I’m sorry for the sporadic posting lately. It’s really been a tough few weeks.  I feel like maybe we have turned the corner on some of the angst and drama, but every time I think this year couldn’t get any worse, somehow it manages to serve up yet another unpleasant surprise.

 

  

Over these last few weeks, we have been caught in a vicious circle.  I’ve been stressed to the gills thanks to things going on at work.  My wife has been beyond stressed because of a major family issue.  My stress led to misbehaving even more than usual, including one truly epic fail that left her very mad and me very disappointed in myself.  The tension in the relationship then adds to our stress. I did tell her that I knew how mad she was and that I had been trying to atone for it with better behavior and trying to take some household burdens off of her.  She gets all that, but she also insisted on delivering that special kind of “atonement” that those of us in Domestic Discipline marriages have consented to and asked for. 


   

In an interesting development—one that is germane to this week’s topic—something about this latest behavioral problem seemed finally to push her in a much more dominant direction.  She spanked me hard on Monday. On Tuesday, we talked about how much I seem to be needing much stricter “maternal” discipline. She agreed and voiced her intention to deliver it.  But, we have had MANY such discussions, and it just never seems to gel.  So, it was somewhat surprising when she called the next morning and gave me two chores that I was to complete that day. The next morning, she called again and again gave me a chore to complete.  She also lectured me about a series of failures to lock all the doors when I leave the house, and though she didn’t come right out and say it, the unmistakable message was that I could expect a spanking if I did it again.   

In the moment, being bossed around like a teenager by a strict mother is, in a word, humbling.  And irritating in just the way it would be to a teenage boy in a strict household.  As I have said here many times before, I am not a submissive. While deep down inside I probably crave boundaries, in the moment they are being imposed I chafe against them. I really do have a deep-seated aversion to authority.

Yet, I also genuinely believe that more humility and less ego would be a good thing for me.  I’m a fan of both Buddhist and stoic philosophy, and both emphasize not getting upset or stressed by the negative circumstances we all will inevitably encounter in life.  When I think about the stress and anger I’ve been feeling at work, a lot of it is caused not by the circumstances themselves but by me being very invested in certain outcomes and very devoted to getting my own way. Similarly, when my wife calls and gives me an order to do certain chores that day, or implicitly threatens punishment for violating a “rule” like locking all the doors at night or when I leave the house, it is a very humbling experience and emphasizes how much I am attached to my sense of autonomy and to getting my own way. Overcoming ego and pride was a major part of the self-improvement “cult” Nxivm that I have talked about here a few times and that is the subject of the cable series The Vow.

 

  

While it is very difficult in the moment, I do believe that being humbled by having to take direction from someone else would be a good thing in the long run. And, to the extent that she really starts cracking the whip—literally and figuratively—on things like diet, exercise, drinking too much, etc., it could result in reversing some of the troubling health and aging trends I’ve been contending with the last couple of years.  I also know that I get myself into trouble due to arrogance, temper, and lack of respect for authority.  Given the number of times those things have created problems for me, some "humbling" seems in order as a tool to help me exercise a little more self-control and get a handle on some negative emotional reactions.  Finally, while it's true that while I am not a natural submissive and definitely do not get off on being humiliated, there definitely is something very sexy about my wife exercising power and authority. 

 

I also think that while on the surface I am very averse to authority and very sensitive about being put in embarrassing situations, deep down inside part of me seems to crave forced humility.  I don’t think it is a coincidence that on those few occasions when I have dreamed about being spanked the dream scenario has involved inherently embarrassing and humbling situations like being taken out of a work event to be spanked by a manager. Then there was the dream about riding in a car with my mother who pulled over to the side of the road to give me a well-earned spanking. I’ve also talked about the time I made some smart-ass remark at a family Christmas brunch after my wife asked me to perform some task, and she quipped that I could do it or she could spank me.  I'm not sure anyone overheard, but I'm also not sure they didn't. The fact that I still think about it two years later says a lot about the power of being embarrassed by being publicly "outed" to family and friends. 

Others knowing about a spanking definitely does something for me, and it has something to do with the fact that it is inherently embarrassing and humbling.  While I've never thought I was into humiliation, beyond the practical benefits of humbling, I can't deny that there seems to be a pattern of fictional humiliation scenes getting my attention or having free rein in my dreams, including particularly M/m spanking scenarios, being spanked in public, and others being told about our DD relationship. 

   

 

Then there is my fascination with crying, which drove a huge amount of my initial obsession after discovering DD.  I have always thought my crying fetish is very much about the embarrassment and vulnerability associated with being spanked to real tears.  And, I absolutely believe that one of the primary reasons I have not let go and sobbed during a spanking is, in fact, because the embarrassment of doing that holds me back every time I get close.

 

Our weekly topics here almost always involve me asking a series of questions about our readers’ personal experiences with or feelings about each particular topic.  I want to change this up a little this time.  While humbling may or may not be part of your DD or FLR dynamic, Anne and I are determined to keep giving it a try.  Doling out chores is part of it.  Ramping up spanking is part of it.  But, we have not gone much beyond those.  I can come up with other ways for her to exercise her authority in ways that empower her and disempower/humble me.  But, have you ever noticed how sometimes you can give your spouse advice about something and they will blow it off, then they’ll hear the exact same thing from a friend or co-worker and suddenly it becomes just the right thing to do?  Maybe the same dynamic is at play when I suggest to Anne ways she might go about humbling me.  Perhaps it would be more powerful if she hears it from YOU.  Also, I don’t claim to be all that creative. Some of you may come up with things I would never think of on my own.

 

So, if humbling is a part of your dynamic, tell us what you’ve tried and what has worked for you.  Even if it is not part of your dynamic and you don’t want it to be, give us some ideas of what might work if you did want this as part of your dynamic.  Guys, what could your wife impose on you that your ego would really struggle to accept?  What could she make you do, or ban you from doing, that would really humble you or enforce her authority?  Ladies, if you wanted to humble your husband and sand off some of that ego, what specifically do you think would help accomplish that? 

 

   

I hope you all have fun with this.  I can’t make any promises about whether Anne will try out any specific suggestion. But, she does read the blog fairly regularly, and something you say might resonate.  In the meantime, enjoy the season.  And, be willing to take the consequences if you enjoy it a little TOO much.

 

   

Have a great week.

26 comments:

  1. It's very humbling to have knowledge of the dynamic outed in public, even to strangers.

    One of our earliest was me taking him panty shopping at a plus-sized store and the salesgirl and I picking out a half-dozen pair for him while he blushed. After we picked them out I said aloud "we'll see if a week in panties doesn't improve your housework" Ha ha!

    It's a fetish of ours to spank my husband in front of strange women. It has been our experience that many women are extremely open to seeing a husband being spanked by his wife. They quite delight in it and don't feel at all threatened. Even with pants down and erection on display, they just laugh at it. It's knowing the wife is there to keep hubby in line that removes any "potency" from the male in that situation. And they really don't mind seeing him suffer AT ALL.

    More wives should try it.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I have thought about the panty shopping scenario, and I agree it would be very humbling.

      Somehow it doesn't surprise me all that the women don't mind seeing him suffer. :-)

      Delete
    2. Try dressing him in daywear and taking him for a bra fitting or to try on blouses, skirts and dresses. I've done the panty shopping, too. One thing I do want to try is dressing him in daywear and sending him to Elizabeth Arden with instructions that he's to get the treatment they have for ladies, not the one they have for guys (yes, Elizabeth Arden does have a treatment for guys).

      Delete
  2. Dan,

    It seems to me that you are craving others finding out that you wife spanks you, both in your dreams and your daydreams. Since Anne has already mentioned it at a family party, I would suggest she do more of the same. When you are misbehaving, she should threaten you with a spanking, regardless of who is within earshot. A lot of people will laugh it off as a joke, but you will never know who believes it to be real, and I imagine it will be quite humbling for you.

    I have told a couple of my girlfriends that I spank Jimmy, and it is quite amazing what has happened as a result. He is much more polite around them! Maybe this would happen with you as well and then your wife would see the benefit of letting others know. It actually may change your behavior around those people!

    I also really like the idea of her calling and assigning you chores, with the implicit threat that you will be spanked if you do not do them. I suggest that she do that more, and even make the threat explicit: "I'm going to inspect your work when I get home, and it better be done right or you are going over the ottoman!"

    It's also interesting that you have this fantasy of being spanked by someone at work. Since your work performance seems to be a big part of your misbehavior and guilt, maybe your wife should look into talking to someone at work about you and having them report to her when you have acted arrogantly or inappropriately. She doesn't have to tell this person that she spanks you, just that she wants to help you be a better employee and she wants to know when you have misbehaved. That in itself would be incredibly humbling. It would totally change your relationship with the person who has been asked to report you. And it would be very humbling every time you actually are reported. Maybe eventually your wife (or you) will tell that person what happens when your wife gets the report!

    For diet and exercise, I suggest something that can help you with your self-reporting. Once a month you get on the scale and tell her your weight (or maybe she supervises you while you step on the scale naked, LOL). It's just a factual thing; you have not confessed any misbehavior. But it provides some proof how you have done with diet and exercise the previous month. If you have done poorly, she decides the consequences. Maybe you get spanked, maybe you get extra chores, maybe you have to exercise while she is watching TV, maybe she orders for you in restaurants to make sure you eat healthy (humbling), maybe your favorite food is banned from the home ... there are a million ways to be creative with that. I can imagine in a restaurant when it is time for dessert. Anne orders some for herself and when the waiter turns to you, she says, "Oh, my husband isn't having any. He's on restriction from desserts because he needs to lose weight."

    For me, drinking too much is a big deal because that is when Jimmy is most likely to run his mouth. You seem to be more bothered by your drinking than Anne is, but maybe that's because it happens with your work colleagues and she doesn't see it. So maybe she has a conversation with one of your work colleagues who is usually there when you are drinking and asks that person to cut you off after two. That would really be humbling.

    One of your fantasies would be extremely humiliating, I would think -- being spanked by a man. You fantasize about a supervisor at work but that is not going to happen for legal reasons. But maybe you should think about a man (possibly a relative) who might agree to spank you if Anne asked him -- or even better if Anne made you ask him. Just the asking would be incredibly humbling for you. Of course that is truly letting the cat out of the bag because he is going to talk about it with others. Maybe Anne could start by threatening it: "If you don't respond to my spankings, I'm going to ask my brother to do it." Or something like that.
    Belle


    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I was going to say something else but my comment was too long so I cut it. All of my suggestions above are based on things that have already happened in your marriage or things that you have fantasized about. I did that intentionally because I would think those ideas have a better chance of actually happening. But I am sure there are many other ways you could be humbled that you haven't thought about yet and that others will suggest here (or maybe I will write again).

      I do think that humbling is a very big part of DD. It sure is for Jimmy. After I have spanked him he behaves in a very humble manner and I believe it is quite real. For several days he watches his mouth very carefully. Unfortunately, it doesn't really last (at least not yet). As I have heard others say, "Naughty boys need lots of "reminders"!"
      Belle

      Delete
    2. Hi Belle. I don't know whether I crave others knowing, but I do think there is something very humbling about it. It also just makes you more present during conversations and meetings with that person. As I've talked about here, I've told only two people who I have any kind of "real world" relationship with. One of them is a very non-judgmental friend I've known for 25 years. I don't worry at all about her judging me, yet knowing that she knows definitely adds some extra something to talking to her. As does wondering whether she has told her husband, who we also see socially from time to time.

      Regarding work reporting, I have thought before that it would be constructive if someone there would rat me out to my wife, but there isn't a likely candidate. My assistant is a weirdo who I'd never trust with such a role, and most of the other people who have real visibility into my daily behavior are subordinates who would probably be very uncomfortable with such a relationship. But, I'm not going to be in this current job situation that much longer anyway. If I were to go out on my own, maybe I can find a very kinky assistant or office manager and help my wife form a relationship with her.

      "If you have done poorly, she decides the consequences. Maybe you get spanked, maybe you get extra chores, maybe you have to exercise while she is watching TV, maybe she orders for you in restaurants to make sure you eat healthy (humbling), maybe your favorite food is banned from the home ... there are a million ways to be creative with that. I can imagine in a restaurant when it is time for dessert." Those are all interesting options, and reporting the weight itself actually is pretty simple, as we already have a "smart scale" that reports all my weigh-ins to an app.

      Regarding drink, she actually has a bigger issue with it than I do. If I were a bachelor again, I don't think it would bother me at all to become a slimmer version of Norm from Cheers.

      Being spanked by a man would definitely push some boundaries. There aren't many realistic options among people we actually know. Anne pretty much detests her siblings and likely would never give them a glimpse into her personal life. I don't have brothers, so that obviously doesn't work. But, while the person will have to remain unidentified, it definitely would a "nuclear option" that would create a hell of a lot of leverage.



      Delete
    3. Like you, Belle, I notice husband's behaved better around the ladies who know or have seen him disciplined. This isn't to say he doesn't misbehave, he just doesn't do it as much. As he and best friend don't like each other, when he thinks she's pushing it too far, usually, he'll come to me and ask me to do something before he says something to her.

      Delete
    4. From a male’s perspective it’s more than just behavior that changes. The whole relationship changes with a woman who has witnessed a disciplinary spanking. With both women who have witnessed me receive a spanking I changed in my attitude and demeanor around them but they both changed also in their interaction with me. The simplest way to describe it is that it was like a wall between us had been torn down, any defensiveness I had toward them dissolved and an openness that had not been there. Your deepest secret has been revealed dramatically and there is no way that genie ever goes back in the bottle. Before it happened my sister-in –law and I had a somewhat strained relationship. Now we are very comfortable with each other and she has even been my advocate on a few issues. So behavior change yes, but much more as well.
      Alan

      Delete
  3. Dan, your essay is the kind of thing I complimented KD about on his blog. But in his case it was the interviews. His interviews and this essay, for example, are outstanding opportunities for readers to self-reflect, empathize, learn, and maybe be more open to new possibilities themselves.

    In that vein I will share some thoughts I had several months ago. I'll skip the back story, but I was strongly feeling the need for a disciplinary spanking - if it was a medical thing I wold have gone to the doctor.

    In that desperation I conjured up the idea that finding a man to do it would be easier than finding a woman. I was not in any sense thinking about the what the humbling aspect might have been. (That just occurred to me when I read your essay.)

    More than likely it would have had to be a gay man. And even though I really do have many good friends in the gay community, participating an any man-on-man would be a major turn-off. So for me, having to resort to that would have been - well who knows what. probably even more-than humbling.

    Regarding suggestions for your wife, I just shake my head and again wish she had been able to talk with Aunt Kay. If I get anything in dreams from her I'll let you know

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thanks, Tomy. I've been playing with the idea of taking the blog in a less topic-driven direction. Something a little more personal or stream of consciousness. But, it's a tough balance. Some of the DD blogs that were around when I first started on this journey were more personal and more like on-line journals, and most of them didn't last. After a while, there is only so much you can say about your own personal DD adventures. I think that format also would work well only with a pretty small group of dedicated commenters who felt free to engage very openly.

      I too have thought that if we were to ever initiate something M/m, a gay male might be the most likely option, if for no other reason that I think it would be easier to find a willing one through an on-line dating site or similar service, as opposed to trying to find a willing straight man. I don't think it would be the major turn-off for me that it is for you, but you never know until you are in the moment, right?

      Delete
    2. Hey, thanks Dan. What you wrote actually made me feel really good.

      Delete
  4. Her most effective humbling techniques are lying naked over her lap while she scolds and lectures me about my misdeeds.I have to suppress my male pride to resist responding and accept her points .
    The other one had to be her ,thankfully subtle, 'hints about a potential spanking in front of others which puts me in humble mode right away.
    I still recall an occasion when some years ago, after ignoring her warnings , she actually fetched the paddle and showed it to a female friend of ours .

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi Glen. I do not find our usual spankings inherently humbling. But, we also very seldom do OTK, and I can see how that might change the whole dynamic.

      Delete
    2. If I recall correctly , Anne delivers her lecture / scolding before you get in position for your spanking.
      Perhaps you should reverse it , with her ordering you into position and then lecturing/scolding as you lie in a 'humbling' position , be it OTK or bent over?

      Delete
  5. Hi Dan,
    Welcome back! Sorry that it has been so busy for you recently. Hopefully everything will start to flow more smoothly soon. So much of what you wrote resonated with me that I am just going to comment on those things, and later in the week I will write on the humiliation topic, since it is one of my favorite topics and I need to think about it to do it justice. Also, I wanted to tell of a very recent happening, since it just happened a few days ago and ties in so well.

    It sounds like an interesting development with your wife and the move towards more “maternal” discipline. For some reason, that seems to tie in pretty well with chores, which is unfortunate since I don’t particularly like chores, and especially being given chores. I totally relate to your statement: “In the moment, being bossed around like a teenager by a strict mother is, in a word, humbling. And irritating in just the way it would be to a teenage boy in a strict household.” That is pretty much exactly how I feel. I think I might be a bit more naturally submissive than you, but at the same time I also share your deep-seated aversion to authority (of any kind).

    We have watched the first 5 episodes of The Vow and should soon finish watching that series. It was just so very interesting, particularly the whole collateral part. Of course, it seems like maybe they also crossed some red lines, or at least possibly so, but I think the whole self-improvement and motivational part I agreed with pretty strongly.

    As far as the things I need to continue working on, the “troubling health and aging trends” are right at the top of the list, since if I don’t work on those, everything else becomes pretty pointless. But I do tend to have a problem with negative emotional reactions too. That seems to be getting somewhat better over time. I think I was just super defensive and quick to assume the worst after several years of awful things happening.

    And now for the recent happening, which involves others knowing. This past week, my wife’s sister was visiting for a few days, which is a kind of rare event. During her visit, another of my wife’s friends came and they all hang out together. This friend is the one that both my wife and I agreed would be the “easiest” to tell, since she is very liberal and open-minded. I was working and then went to my wife’s hometown on Friday evening, since I had been working. Knowing the sister and the friend and my wife were together really had me thinking, since they were the two people that my wife immediately thought of when we were talking about “witnesses” before. Of course, I knew she would never say anything. Anyway, while we were sitting there for dinner, my wife’s sister mentioned that she had seen my birthday cake on Facebook, and they both said “happy birthday” and so on, even though it had already occurred several weeks back. So the next day, my wife told me that she had told them about a little roleplay we did on my birthday weekend, where my wife said she was going out for coffee with friends for an hour or so (which I thought was true since it seemed plausible). After a few minutes she came into the room I was working in dressed very sexy and pretended that she was my wife’s friend who was sent to deal with me for my bad behavior. Anyway, my wife told them this much, and the friend said “so did you come in with a belt and whack him?” And my wife said yes and just went along with it and they were apparently all laughing. So it is NOT the same thing, since it was role-play she was talking about (not real discipline) and they probably assume she was only joking about any spanking part, but still it was very interesting.

    I will write more in a few days about the main topic.

    -ZM

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi ZM. Unfortunately, work isn't busy. Which is part of the frustration. But, the bigger problems really related to my efforts to wind down this phase of my career. It's funny how some people interpret pulling back as weakness and try to move in for the kill. That kind of world, I guess.

      The Vow material definitely does fascinate me, though I think the series is more loaded than the New York Times article, probably because the former is told almost exclusively from the standpoint of the "victims." And, many of the participants push back on the idea that what was going on was non-consensual. The term "cult" is also pretty loaded. Bill Mahrer used it in a segment a couple of weeks ago regarding Supreme Court nominee Amy Cony Barrett, applying it to her membership in . . . the Catholic Church. (He called the People of Praise group of which she is a member a "sub-cult." My bottom line on what I have seen and read is that Rainere probably was a con-man with respect to the "multi-level marketing" aspects of the program, and did some pretty unsavory sexual things including relationships with minors. BUT, there also seem to have been aspects of his self-improvement program that were pretty damn insightful about how to change bad behavior and develop good habits, and were pretty ingenious. Both those things can be true at the same time. There probably were victims of the ponzi-scheme aspects of the program, but there is a lot of retroactive claims of non-consent that, paradoxically and ironically, are being aimed at a program that was built around getting leverage on oneself by risking some very uncomfortable consequences that were taken out one's hands. The whole "collateral" concept is pretty damn close to what we talk about here as "consensual non-consent."

      Very interesting development with your wife and her sister and friend! And, isn't it telling about what we really finding humbling or embarrassing in these relationships that she was willing to share a role play scene, but probably would not not (at this point anyway) reveal the whole truth about the disciplinary nature of your relationship?

      Delete
  6. “Guys, what could your wife impose on you that your ego would really struggle to accept? What could she make you do, or ban you from doing, that would really humble you or enforce her authority?” Like ZM, I want to think more about this topic which touches the core of DD for me and so hope to contribute more later. But Dan's words quoted above evoke from me an instant and unambiguous reaction: receiving a punishment spanking in front of another male who was observing to humble me but who was not himself subject to feminine discipline would fully challenge my ego to accept. I believe and hope I would submit if she ordered it (and we have had discussions about it) But, it would totally de-erotize discipline comparable in many ways to being spanked immediately after ejaculation. I have made it through the latter experience (not often) and would probably make it through a witnessed spanking in front of another male. My former girlfriend told an old boyfriend that she spanked me and he (according to her) ridiculed me for it. The deep embarrassment I felt from that was as close as I ever hope to come to it happening in person. I have been spanked in front of a female witness (two different women) and the emotions from that are entirely different and mostly positive despite the fact that there is plenty of humbling in that experience. I doubt women spankees would have a similar reaction to be spanked in front of another women. It's another "guy thing”
    Alan

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "[R]eceiving a punishment spanking in front of another male who was observing to humble me but who was not himself subject to feminine discipline would fully challenge my ego to accept." That part about "who was not himself subject to feminine discipline" really does seem key to the humbling aspect, doesn't it?

      Delete
  7. This is Arthur,
    I find it very humbling that my mother-in-law knows that I am paddled by my wife. I understand why my wife felt a need to tell her in order to launch a conversation about the DD between my wife's parents. And since my mother-in-law initially suggested to me that I needed to be "thrashed," I guess she in some sense deserves to know that I followed through and asked for it and my wife is providing it.

    To me, having a relative (or close friend) know is much more humiliating than comments in front of a stranger who we would never see again. Every time I see my mother-in-law, the first thing that pops into my head is that "she knows." I keep expecting her to make a funny or snide comment about it, as that is part of her personality, but she has not as yet.

    My wife has made some noises on this blog that if she were ever going to paddle me in front of someone, it would be her mother. Since I don't take my pants down, there would be no modesty issue. But I still would find it incredibly, humbling, embarrassing and humiliating - whatever the differences are in those three words. Would I submit to it? I believe I would if my wife insisted, though I won't really know until that moment arrives. I have never even considered saying no to my wife when she has said I need to be paddled, and I know I would want to stick to that record.

    I mention all this because it's the main thing I think about when it comes to humbling. So if Dan's wife chose a relative to tell, or even decided to punish him in front of that relative, I think that would be the most humbling thing of all.
    Arthur

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I just want to add that our kids are back in school, at least for now, and so yesterday morning I bent over for my standard Monday morning paddling. Even though I have now received many of these in the same manner, the humbling aspect is just as strong as ever. It reminds me of a line in Cool Hand Luke: "You've got to get your mind right." I feel like I can start the week with my "mind right" when I have gotten a painful reminder to do so. And part of "right" is "humble."

      So, Anne, always remember that you are helping your husband be humble every time you punish him. For me, having these weekly lessons in humility is extremely beneficial.

      Thinking of Cool Hand Luke, there is that even more famous line which I imagine many a disciplinary wife has said (or at least thought) as she picks up her paddle: "What we have here is a failure to communicate!"
      Arthur

      Delete
    2. I am a HUGE fan of Cool Hand Luke. I personally identify pretty strongly with Luke's particular brand of anti-authoritarianism and love the fight between him and George Kennedy's character and what it reflects about his personality. Of course, the way things end for Luke is obviously a lesson in what often happens to those who fight authority.

      I agree that being spanked in front of my MIL would be very humbling, to a big extent because I have a somewhat stereotypical relationship with mine, i.e. I've never really gotten along that well with her and she makes me kind of crazy. Being spanked in front of someone you don't care for certainly would ramp up the humbling.

      Delete
  8. I've mentioned how I humble/humiliate husband during and immediately after a Disciplinary Session. As we both have busy schedules, usually a Disciplinary Session has to be scheduled. Because of this, I just notify husband he's Under Discipline. Sometimes I reinforce it by putting him in chastity, but not always. If I discover disobedience on say a Tuesday but know I can't administer discipline until Saturday, I'll notify him he's under Discipline. Once he's notified or in chastity, he has to follow protocols.

    Unless he's going to work, he has to ask permission to go out of the house. He has to ask permission to even go in the back yard to work. He also has to ask my permission to go in his workshop. If I give him permission to go out of the house to run an errand, he has to ask my permission to drive one of his cars. He has to be specific about which car. Sometimes he'll ask my permission to drive his old car. If I deny permission for that car, he has to ask permission to drive his beat up car. If he wants a beer at home, he has to ask my permission. When we are eating dinner or any other meal, he has to ask to be excused from the table. He protested especially about the last one being for children, so I told him if he's going to disobey like a child does, he's going to be treated like one.

    He has to address me as "Miss Cecilia" or "Ma'am" when he's in chastity or under Discipline. I also wear my key around my neck when he's in chastity.

    I make allowances for people who don't know about us. I let him call me "Cecilia" and just tell me he's going to do something he has to ask permission for in front of them. If it's someone who knows, though, he has to ask and use the same formula, "Miss Cecilia, may I please have your permission to__________________?" and he has to thank me if I give permission.

    Husband says it's humiliating, even when he just tells me "I'm going down to my workshop" because there's someone there who doesn't know. A couple of people have commented about how I've "trained him well" just because they noticed he's "informed" me he's doing something a couple of times.

    I mentioned above, too, how he comes to me if he thinks one of my friend's pushing his buttons. It reinforces he has to obey me when I tell him to be polite to people. He says even that's humiliating, but he says he'll take the little bit of humiliation to avoid a Disciplinary Session, especially if my friend gets to witness it.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thanks, Cecilia. I can see how many of the interactions in your second paragraph would be very humbling.

      Delete
  9. Dan,

    If I was Anne, I would take my cue from your own words. You said you feel like you need “much stricter *maternal* discipline.” And you mentioned how humbling you find it to be “bossed around like a teenager by a strict mother.” You said that “in the moment” you find that “irritating”, which implies, I guess, that beyond the moment you are turned on by the idea of being stripped of your adult status by your wife. (I may be reading too much into your words, based on my experience with my own husband, but that’s what I’m hearing).

    So WHAT IF Anne pushed the adult/minor dynamic to its logical conclusion. She has already taken a step in that direction by assigning you chores and warning you not to forget to lock the doors under threat of being spanked. But if she really wants to exercise her authority in a “maternal” way, I think she should consider deploying the full range of disciplinary tools adults employ with minors. In other words, in addition to spankings, she could consider consequences like grounding, loss of privileges, early bedtimes, etc. She could also consider limiting your personal discretionary spending by putting you on an allowance which could be suspended for disciplinary purposes as she deems appropriate. She could impose curfews and require you to get her permission if you wanted to go out for drinks after work. From what you have said previously, I believe you would find those auxiliary measures more truly humbling and embarrassing than simply having your bottom paddled.

    Let’s push the parent/minor analogy a step farther. If you were really a minor, there would be no reason for Anne to hide her authoritarian status from other people. So, if I was Anne, I would probably let some select group of people (maybe certain friends or family members) in on the secret that she wields real authority over you and expects you to obey her. Speaking to you in an authoritative way in the presence of certain people would certainly humble you, wouldn’t it? Then, if the people were curious, that could lead on to her revealing to them that she disciplines you, and maybe even to spanking you in front of a willing witness, as others have suggested.

    I don’t know whether this would work for you and Anne. I am suggesting things I have done with my own husband. He is different from you in some important ways, but he is quite similar to you, I think, in his (erotic) feelings about “maternal” style discipline. And, of course, Anne would have to be comfortable with the role of *realistic* maternal disciplinarian to her husband. Getting comfortable with that was a gradual process for me, and discomfort with it was one reason for my initial rejection of FLR.

    Danielle

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi Danielle, and I know I speak for the group when I say "Welcome back."

      As you know, there definitely are differences between Wayne and me, but that doesn't mean that a lot of your advice on this speak to me and, yes, stir me. As you've described him, Wayne seems to have a pretty strong kink around humiliation. I really don't think I have that. In fact, I find watching others being humiliated very disturbing, to the point that I will skip past scenes in movies that involve a good person being humiliated by a bully; I really don't like watching things like that and don't get off on experiencing them.

      BUT, the level of control I associate with maternal discipline and the whole maternal relationship--which I think of very much as you describe it--definitely does do something for me. And, while it is erotic for sure, I think the drive for me really is not about eroticism or kink. My upbringing was kind of unconventional in some respects, primarily in that I had a pretty absurd degree of independence at an absurdly young age. I've also now spent 25 years in a very aggressive, driven, "big swinging dick" kind of profession. I think that when you live at the extremes whether by virtue of personality or environment, you may end up craving more balance BUT to become balanced you kind of have to get yanked in the other direction. So, because I really lacked any semblance of maternal discipline growing up, I think part of me really craves very, very strict discipline now. And, yes, there definitely is erotic energy bound up in there somewhere, though it's almost the opposite of Oedipal. I have a good relationship with my mother now, but growing up she was extremely erratic. As a result, I think I've internalized this desire for really structured, together, domineering women who are very in control of their environments.

      As for your specific recommendations, don't think I would resist any of them, and some (like witnesses) would probably be a bigger stretch for her than for me. But, things change. As you say, my wife "would have to be comfortable with the role of *realistic* maternal disciplinarian to her husband." A couple of months, I would have said the odds were against that happening. Now, I'm not so sure.

      Delete
  10. I think that continuing what she's doing, namely bossing you around like a strict mother would a surly, resentful teenager who has the prospect of a bare bottom spanking continually dangling over his head, is the best approach to take. The threat of your spankings, or the fact that you get them, being made public is some strong leverage for most of us, but one I find distasteful and couldn't accept for several reasons. It's somewhat unpredictable how it would affect relationships, it opens up what's private possibly making it less intimate, and the biggest is that it, or for that matter being spanked by a male stranger, just somehow seems like a different kind of humbling, the tone of it is different, especially if the witnesses are viewing domestic discipline from the outside. For instance being spanked by a man would just be a ridiculous experience to go through, one where I would be embarrassed to be sure, but unlikely to reach me on a deep level let alone leaving me feeling connected to my disciplinarian. I imagine it as similar to visiting a pro, embarrassing but also kind of empty. But then again, I'm sure this is an area where each of us differs.

    So what's humbling and private? A spouse who acts as though her significant other is a junior partner subject to her authority and that for his own good and the good of the relationship that authority needs to be exercised, and often at that. It's an attitude of dominance that for me is at the heart of this sort of thing. Here's a few examples that come to mind: sudden shifts of mood, especially from affectionate to, well let's not call it bitchy, but inquisitive in a particularly persistent and demanding manner; giving direct orders on matters under her authority with no more justification than "because I said so"; seeing her partner as needing direction and correction, and so frequently delivering lectures and scoldings; talking about spanking in a casual manner, not necessarily publicly but with little regard for how it might embarrass him; prioritizing her expectations and evaluating how well they're met; and maybe increasing intensity by spanking longer instead of harder. Perhaps the strongest way she can display this dominance is by constantly making him feel accountable to her, "What did you do (this afternoon, today, etc.)?". Having to regularly justify oneself and one's behavior in the hopes of avoiding punishment is pretty humbling, it makes it clear you aren't equals in authority no matter what others might think. Probably more oversight than many would care to take on, but maybe a good fit for some.

    And yes, of course, tears. A cathartic cry is an embarrassing and intimate expression of vulnerability, and that seems like an altogether different experience of humiliation than some of the other options you mentioned. Also a public spanking ending in tears is on an entirely different level from one that doesn't. The latter just seems kind of kinky, exhibitionist.

    ReplyDelete

This blog is a curated resource for those genuinely and positively interested in DD and FLR lifestyles. Comments that are rude, uncivil, inconsistent with the blog's theme or off-topic may not be posted or may be removed.