The Forum - Vol. 180 - Meetings, Mentoring, Etc.

“A woman should be two things: who and what she wants.”

Hello all. Welcome back to the Forum: Disciplined Husbands & Disciplinary Wives.  I hope you all had a good week. 

Mine was pretty damn unproductive, which is becoming kind of a disturbing pattern.  I finished off a huge project in September, and I've had some trouble getting back to anything resembling my normal work focus.  It's kind of irritating, because I'm one of those people who actually like what I do and like being productive, so downtime just starts feeling like laziness.  And, it kind of is.  As I get older, I become more convinced that you can only maintain a frenetic pace for so long.  At some point,  you hit a wall and your performance goes down whether you want it or not.  It's a humbling thing for a Type-A to admit, but true nonetheless.  Anyway, that is what I was thinking about on this lovely Saturday as I face up to having to now spend time this weekend catching up on stuff I neglected during the week because of that lack of focus thing.

Speaking of humbling, I want to thank Aunt Kay again for stopping by and hope she will continue to do so.  I would like to follow up on one thing she wrote for last week's post, making it this week's topic as it is similar to one I had planned to do anyway.  Aunt Kay observed:

When we did things together with other DWC couples; like going to dinners, events, visiting for weekends, there was such a sense of liberation.  Just hanging out, being able to talk about lifestyle stuff was amazing. It was like we knew we were special, we shared a kinky little secret when we were out among the rest of the world.

If you had an opportunity to interact in some more personal way with other husbands, wives or couples in the lifestyle, whether as a group or one-on-one, would that be something that interests you?  I am not necessarily or even principally talking about group gatherings.  It could be something as simple as a phone call between two Disciplinary Wives, exchanging ideas or boosting each others' confidence confidence in taking over their households.  Or, maybe just an email between disciplined husbands exploring something they are struggling with or recounting their latest punishment.  Or, for those slightly more open to it, meeting for a beer or dinner after "coming out" to a Wife, husband or Couple you know is in a DD or FLR relationship.  What would your level of interest be in something like that?  As I ask this question, I am acutely aware that this blog gets around 1500 to 2000 hits a day, far less than 10% of those comment at all, and of those, the vast majority do so anonymously.  So, I am assuming the baseline level of openness to real conversations with others is pretty low, but you all may fool me.

When I originally planned to do this topic, I was thinking of it a little more in terms of mentoring or mutual support for the Wives.  There are times when my wife simply retreats back into her conventional upbringing and has a hard time staying in the role of Leader.  I think she also encounters those, "Does he really want it if I take a stronger lead" self-doubts. (Yes, I really do want it, is the answer to that one, by the way.)  I think it could really help her get past those self-doubts if she had another Disciplinary Wife to chat with directly, whether by email, phone or in person.  Now, whether she would be open to that is an entirely different matter.  I really don't know.  A few years ago, the answer would have been no, but things and people do change.

I am not, by the way, offering to be Master of Ceremonies at the kind of gathering Aunt Kay and Jerry are talking about.  I do know that however much my wife and I have opened up, we aren't there yet.  We still have careers that could be damaged if our "kink" was more widely known.  But, a dinner with a particular couples, or maybe just a beer with one of the regular commenters if we happened to be in the same city some time, who knows?  A few years ago, I probably wouldn't have been open to even that, but I am getting progressively less concerned about whether others find out, possibly because as I get closer to the end of my career than the beginning, I just don't care as much about what people think. I took a baby step in this direction last year, when I started wearing a necklace with a pendent containing a symbol that at least some BDSM enthusiasts might recognize as identifying a "submissive man" in that community.  (I still don't quite self-identify as a "submissive," but if there is any kind of ornamentation or jewelry associated with Disciplined Husbands, I couldn't find it.)  Now, most people would never even see this pendent, as it is under my shirt most of the time, but it is openly visible when I am in the gym though it's small and probably hard to see from more than a few feet away.  But, if someone who was in the BDSM community saw it, they very well could recognize it.  And, that level of openness at least is OK with me right now.

I am not, by the way, suggesting we explore with this topic the extent to which we are "out" to the vanilla world.   We have done that before. and fairly recently.  I'm really talking about, if the opportunity arose to interact in some more personal way with another Disciplinary Wife, Disciplined Husband or FLR/DD Couple, whether for mentoring or mutual support or just to get to know someone better who is in the one of these relationships would that be something you would be open to or interested in?

Have a great week.  If you are new to our Forum, please take a moment to go to the Guestbook (tab above) and tell us a little about your DD or FLR relationship or aspirations.

The Forum - Vol. 179 - An Unexpected Honor

Hello all.  Welcome back to The Forum - Disciplined Husbands and Disciplinary Wives.  Our weekly gathering of men and women participating in, or interested in being in, a Domestic Discipline or Female Led Relationship.  

I am getting an early start on posting this week, as I will be tied up most of today and Saturday.  

As you may recall, last week I put out an open invitation for our Disciplinary Wives to contribute in the form of guest post.  A few days ago, I opened my email and found one from a most unexpected source.  As I have stated on this blog many times, my interest (obsession might be the better word) in Domestic Discipline began with the Disciplinary Wives Club website.  I stumbled upon it almost by accident, and it is not hyperbole to say that in many ways my life was never the same.  Within a few days, I had timidly told my wife about the concept, tested the waters on her willingness to give it a try, and then found myself buying a hair brush on her instructions.  Over a decade later, she is still blistering my bottom when deserved.  Finding the DWC website helped me open up to a side of myself I didn't know existed, while also empowering my wife way beyond what she had thought was possible in our marriage.  So, I owe a lot to Aunt Kay of the DWC, and I have always hoped this blog might have a similar impact on even one couple.  Imitation is indeed, in this case, the sincerest form of flattery.  

So, my heart jumped when I saw an email address that I had seen more than once when visiting the DWC website.  After picking my jaw up off the floor, I read her very gracious email that included a kind offer to contribute to our little community.  A couple of days later, I received the following:

"Hello Dan,

My Hubby recently showed me your blog and since then I have looked through many of the entries.  I like what I saw. So I am happy to contribute.

Your question to wives was “what it has done for your marriage and/or for you and your husband's growth and development, any areas where you would like to see it further develop.” I could write a whole book answering just that.   

What it has done for me and what it has done for the marriage is part of the same answer.  Early in our relationship he told me about his spanking needs.  I had never heard of F/m spanking or in fact any kind of adult spanking. But as he likes to say, I was a “natural” at it. There were some really challenging circumstances when we were first together and having that outlet; the ability to spank the daylights out of him when he was being unreasonable made all the difference.  It gave me a method to direct his growth and we have both very happy with how it turned out. Of course it is an ongoing, never ending project. But unless I am really angry at the time, I kind of enjoy spanking him.

For me personally, it was an astonishing discovery. The intimacy, the pleasure, and especially the results were unbelievable. And being a Teacher, I felt compelled to share it. So I started the Disciplinary Wives Club because I wanted others, for whom this lifestyle might be appropriate, to know about it. I never dreamed it would become so famous or that we would meet so many people from around the world.

We made friends with other couples and that was a whole other unexpected outcome. I never imagined disciplining anyone but my own husband. But it became easy for me after a while. I learned that some men need a lot more intensity than my Hubby and I had some really fun times delivering longer and harder sessions that he could ever endure.  I still recall smiling to myself as I watched Jerry head off with another DWC wife to get a spanking.

When we did things together with other DWC couples; like going to dinners, events, visiting for weekends, there was such a sense of liberation.  Just hanging out, being able to talk about lifestyle stuff was amazing. It was like we knew we were special, we shared a kinky little secret when we were out among the rest of the world.

I see that you have some experienced and thoughtful women who participate in your Blog.  I hope that more wives join in and that some of you find the bravery to meet one another in person.  I will say this; just like any other aspect of life there may or may not be personal chemistry initially when you meet another couple. But it seems to me that people made the extra effort due to our common spanking interest to make it work out.

Aunt Kay"

I hope that Aunt Kay will keep reading and maybe be willing to respond to any comments on this post.   In any event, Aunt Kay, thank you so much.  I cannot think of a better way to kick off my attempt to get our Disciplinary Wives telling us more about their own journeys.

As always, if you are new to our Forum, please take a moment to go to the Guestbook (tab above) and tell us a little about yourself and your DD or FLR relationship.

Dan

The Forum - Vol. 178 - Pre-Spanking O's and An Invitation to the Wives

A man is as good as he has to be, and a woman is as bad as she dares. ~ Elbert Hubbard

Hello all. Welcome back to The Forum - Disciplined Husbands and Disciplinary Wives.  Our weekly gathering of men and women participating in, or interested in participating in, Domestic Discipline and Female Led Relationships. 

I hope you all had a good week.  Mine was pretty damn unproductive.  I find this happens almost every time after I've had a really intense period at work.  Ideally, I would be able to bring things back to a happy medium.  But, it never seems to work that way.  Instead, the pendulum always swings in the opposite direction, and I end up just basically screwing around and getting little accomplished.  Which is really the worst of all possible worlds, because I am getting little to nothing accomplished, yet still going in to work every day instead of taking time off.  I also had one of those dinners with a few male friends that degenerated into several more drinks than intended, leaving me mentally and physically exhausted by the end of the week.  That could and, honestly, should result in one or more very painful spankings this weekend.

That was an interesting exchange last week.  As I said in response to one of the comments, I was surprised at the number of women, and some of the men, who saw a pre-spanking erection as a sign of disrespect.  As Sunny so colorfully put it,  "I am getting ready to give this guy the spanking of his life and he gets a hard on."  I can definitely understand that perspective and want to let the idea percolate a bit before deciding what if anything to try to do about it, since I don't think of that reaction indicating lack of respect when it happens to me, but I do understand why some would see it that way.

In terms of what might be done about it, Marisa and Peter and others alluded to the husband being required to "take care of" the erection before the spanking starts,  also heard referred to as "milking."  In short, imposing a pre-spanking orgasm to remove that erotic or sexual edge prior to the disciplinary event.

He relieves himself, then she gets down to business. 

Or perhaps she lends a hand, particularly if a pre-spanking erection didn't go away after the first few swats.

This is one of those topics for which I am going to have to rely on all of you heavily, because this is an activity we have not engaged in (yet), and for the moment I am pretty glad about that.  Though I do recognize that this might be one of those things where the rubber really meets the road in terms of showing just how much I am up to walking my talk about making a disciplinary punishment "real."  Because I have no doubt that being completely relieved of the erotic or sexual tension and energy that may be bound up in the desire for DD leaves only pure punishment.  Also, it's just the nature of an orgasm to leave you feeling lazy and content -- about the last thing you would want after that is a long, hard spanking.  And, of course, that is kind of the whole point of doing it that way.  I also do wonder whether removing all that energy would make it easier for me to get to real tears, which is something that I do have this morbid obsession with achieving but have just never been able to get there.  For those reasons, I have thought about asking her to consider requiring it for super-serious offenses, but I haven't quite been able to bring myself to do it.

What do you all think about this?  Is it something you have done?  Is it, in fact, much more effective?  For those of you who have not, is it something you think should happen to make the discipline more "real"?

I would also like to use this post to request something of any Wives who might be interested.  The topical format of this blog really does get constraining at times, and I would love to work in a little more variety.  I also think it is very important for wives who are either considering entering into a disciplinary relationship or just dipping their toes in one to have role models.  It would be great to be able to post some content from the wives telling your own stories in your own words about how you came to be a Disciplinary Wife, what it has done for your marriage and/or for you and your husband's growth and development, any areas where you would like to see it further develop, etc.   Basically an open microphone for you tell everyone more about you and your relationship.  I tried this a while back and got submissions from Anna and Merry, but that was about it.  Our circle of Disciplinary Wives has expanded a bit since then, so maybe this is a good time to give it another shot.  If you are interested, there are a couple of options.  First, you can just enter it as a comment here and I will re-post it later as a stand-alone posting.  If it gets too long, just break it up into multiple comments.  Alternatively, my Profile link includes an email address.  Just send it to me by email and I will post it to the blog.

Finally, if you are new to our Forum, please take a minute to stop by the Guestbook (tab above) and tell us a little about yourself and your DD or FLR relationship.

Dan

The Forum -- Vol. 177 -- Excitement before . . .

Hello all.  Welcome back to The Forum - Disciplined Husbands and Disciplinary Wives.  Our weekly gathering of men and women participating or interested in being in a Domestic Discipline or Female Led Relationship.  I hope you all had a great week.

We wrapped up one of our polls a couple of weeks ago. This was one of the more sexualized we've done, asking whether you typically get an erection before a disciplinary spanking.  We had 88 responses, and here are the results

(Almost) Always	49 (55%)
Sometimes	23 (26%)
(Almost) Never	16 (18%)

Summing it up, about 80% of men at least sometimes get an erection before a disciplinary spanking, and over half get one almost always.  I am among those who get them almost always, even though I am also one of the few who didn't really have a spanking fetish before discovering Domestic Discipline.

So, what is this about?  While some spankings can undoubtedly be erotic, this poll focused specifically on erections before disciplinary spankings.  Those spankings you know are going to be extremely painful, hard to take, and that might even leave you in tears.  Yet, at least one part of our anatomy seems to find that situation exciting.

Without getting too graphic, I still remember my reaction when I first discovered Domestic Discipline, and during that first three or four days when I was discussing it with my wife, whether we might explore this, and what it would look like.  I literally lost hours of sleep stirring and stewing about what might be coming.  The butterflies in my stomach were so strong, I literally felt ill at points.  I was genuinely scared, particularly regarding the prospect of possibly being humiliated by being brought to tears.  Yet, during those days, part of my anatomy was displaying a more or less constant state of excitement.

I still don't really know how to account for this.  How is it possible to get excited by something you genuinely dread?  Also, does that erotic charge frustrate the disciplinary purpose?  Several weeks ago, I listened to some materials by a spanking-oriented "therapist" and professional disciplinarians named Jacqueline Omerta, who discussed a real spanking that was delivered to one of her clients with the goal of getting to real tears.  But, it didn't happen.  In her view because the client was too turned on.  Her opinion was that the sexual aspect of a spanking was fundamentally incompatible with getting to the state of real remorse and submission required to get to that state of sobbing release.  I can't really say, because I have not gotten to that state of tears.  But, I do feel like that element of extra energy, whether it is erotic or something else driving it, does make the spanking at least somewhat easier to take.

Thoughts on all this? Do you typically get an erection before a disciplinary spanking?  Does it go away once it actually starts?  Do you think it is simply eroticism driving it, or something else?

I hope you all have a great week.  If you are new to this Forum, please take a minute to go to the Guestbook (tab above) and tell us a little about your Domestic Discipline or FLR relationship.

The Forum - Vol. 176 - Stumbling Blocks

Be careful what you wish for.  You might get it.

Hello all.  Welcome back to The Forum, our weekly gathering of men and women who are in, or interested in being in, Domestic Discipline or Female Led Relationships.

And, increasingly a gathering place for those who are not so interested.  I think we hit some kind of new low on the blog last week.  A tiny number of on-point or semi-on-point comments, and then a whole bunch of trying to draw everyone into debates about "is this all real" and "why the sexual aspect" and "is DD really a good thing" that I seem to be attracting an awful lot of lately.  Some of this is probably the price of "fame", which I say very tongue in cheek.  But, earlier this year, we started getting up to around 2000 visitors a day, and that is going to attract a broader range of views for sure. Though, there are two things I find really interesting about all this. First, Blogger tracks the most common search terms that lead every blog, including this one. The terms that people are using when finding this blog are aimed squarely at F/m discipline and corporal punishment. Here are the top ones for this week leading to this blog:

disciplined husband
discipinedhubbies
spanked hubby
spanked husband
f/m wife punishing husband stories
spankedhubby
spanked husbands
well disciplined husbands video
wife led marriage and discipline

Plainly, based on terms people are inputting, they are looking for precisely this kind of content.  They aren't stumbling on it by accident and then taking offense at what they inadvertently found.  I also find comments from the same detractors on multiple blogs so, again, they are plainly spending a hell of a lot of time surfing websites devoted to content that they supposedly disagree with.

Second, the lack of anything approaching a 1:1 ratio between total reader growth and total comments from people in active DD and FLR relationships is puzzling.  The growth in total daily readers has been exponential over the last year, jumping from around 300 to 500 to 1000 to almost 2000 daily.  But, the number of active commenters has stayed about the same over that time period.  And, the number of commenters actively participating in DD and FLR relationships seems to have plateaued, while the number of comments from doubters, detractors and outright trolls has jumped.  (Or, maybe it's just that they get an out-sized part of my attention, which I probably need to work on myself.)

So, given all that, I admit that part of me takes umbrage at the people who don't agree with the lifestyle but still keep coming here and still keep leaving comments, most of them aimed at wanting me to change the focus in one way or another.  And, it is definitely an exercise in "you can't please everyone."  Some want me to use a heavier hand in moderating content, especially stuff that they personally don't like or deem to be a fantasy. Of course, what they deem to be fantasy is usually whatever they themselves are not practicing.  A fairly coarse filter indeed.  Others bitch when it is their ox being gored and I fail to post, or take down, one of their comments because it isn't on topic or is anti-DD or takes potshots at other commenters.  So, again, you can't please everyone.  It was with that thought in mind that I originally intended to use as this week's topic the most recent reader poll, which was on pre-spanking erections.  Doing so would have been my own little "screw off" to anyone who has been griping about sexualized content on the blog.  And, I definitely had no intention of going down the "devote a topic to everything random people don't like about domestic discipline and FLR" rabbit hole that has been suggested in some comments.

But, it did occur to me as I mulled it some more over my Saturday morning coffee, that there are people who visit this blog who are new to DD and FLR or contemplating giving it a try, and it may be beneficial for the veterans to give the newbies an idea of where the stumbling blocks and hurdles are likely to occur.  Not "what is wrong with DD or FLR" but "what is particularly likely to go wrong with their DD and FLR."

Therefore, that is this week's topic.  We all came to DD and FLR from some other state of things -- many of us from a much more traditional or "vanilla" state of affairs.  Most of us probably came into it with some kind of pre-conceived notions or desires about what it would, or should, be like.  But, I'm sure that, as has happened throughout our DD relationship, the wishes and desires sometimes collide with everyday reality.  Real life just gets in the way -- a lot.  Or, what the two people find attractive, or not attractive, about their FLR and DD practices is not quite in synch.  So, what have the stumbling blocks and hurdles been for you as you have tried to implement DD or FLR into your real life? To get the ball rolling, here are a few of mine:

Family Distractions:  For me, the number one stumbling block, hurdle, interference, etc. that has repeatedly frustrated us really getting into a groove with FLR and DD has been the presence of kids around the house.  It is just very, very hard to find private time for discipline, or to openly practice an FLR, with kids around.  To the point that, if I had to do it all over again, I wish (a) we had started earlier; and (b) we had been more open about it.  I know that many readers disagree with that last part, but I have personally become more convinced that kids get used to pretty much anything, and if the couple is open that "She wears the pants," the kids will adapt to that reality.  It doesn't mean I think discipline should happen in the open. Adult activities are adult activities.  But, it could mean that a well-deserved spanking happens that evening after the kids are in bed, and that if they overhear then they overhear.  My own personal preference (one almost certainly NOT shared by my wife, by the way) would be to be more open about the nature of our relationship, and let those chips fall where they may.

Positions & Tools: This is one where, in my experience, the expectations may diverge radically from the reality.  We all see the DD and FLR drawings and pictures with the man draped compliantly over her lap in classic OTK position, and she delivers a devastatingly effective disciplinary spanking with a hairbrush.   For most, the reality is that OTK doesn't work particularly well for the giver or  the receiver and is generally uncomfortable and hard to maintain, and a hairbrush is generally not a very effective disciplinary tool. The combination of the two may be particularly bad, because she may not be able to generate sufficient force in the OTK position, and that force is being delivered through a fairly light instrument.  It also is surprisingly hard to find a really heavy, solid hairbrush these days.  Now, the bath brush . . . that is an entirely different story.  What a difference that few extra inches in length and extra heft can make.

Work Distractions:  We have always had a hard time really getting momentum with the FLR, because about the time she starts stepping up strongly as a leader, I take off on a business trip or get so pummeled with work that I'm just not around.  If there is any fix for this one, I have not personally found it.

Consistency:  Rebecca talked last week about not wanting to always be "on" when it comes to leading and FLR. I totally get that, and I sympathize.  I personally do need, however, for there to be a lot of consistency in terms of setting boundaries, in order for me to really adjust my behavior, and also for me to feel any real internal emotional change as a result of being made to submit.  I also have heard from Disciplinary Wives and female HoH's whose primary concern isn't being "on" too much but, rather, worry that if they really live the FLR and take on the lead role all the time, he will resent it.  It's really the opposite of worrying about being "on"  all the time. She wants to step fully into the role but worries it will be "too much" for him. I honestly think that should not be a major concern for most women. Most of the men who want this also want it to be real and want it to be consistent.  Oh, we may resent it in the moment, but in the long-run it is what we want and need.

This is one of the points the detractors really struggle to grasp.  Men who want this usually don't "like" the spankings, but they do desire to get "real" ones when they are deserved.  They also want real boundaries and real consequences for crossing them. It is the reality of the relationship itself they want, and being subject to someone's discipline that they need.  They do not want it to be enjoyable at the time.  In fact, it is were enjoyable, they wouldn't want it. I honestly don't see why this one is so hard to understand, and I do feel like some of the detractors are being intentionally obtuse, or they really lack some intellectual subtlety.  It seems perfectly reasonable to me that someone can recognize that they may profit from something they don't particularly enjoy. I work out a lot, and I really hate cardio days.  After years of doing them, I still pretty much detest every moment on the treadmill.  But, unlike many of my peers, I'm in pretty good shape for a middle-aged guy, and I've been relatively free of a lot of the chronic health problems that start hitting guys my age.  So, I recognize that cardio is good for me, even if in the middle of a run I am hurting and wanting it to stop.

Incompatible Pros and Cons:  We've been actively practicing DD for over a decade.  I can truthfully say that I haven't really felt a "downside" to DD across that whole time. Where things have "failed," for me it has been about there not being enough rigor or consistency. In other words, the only downside has come from too little DD, not too much.  FLR? Well, that's a different story.  We have only been moving into something like a real FLR for the last year or so, and it is significantly more challenging for me, particularly certain aspects of it.  And therein lies the source of the quote at the top of the page.  I asked for the FLR, including specifically asking her to me more "directive" in the relationship, telling me what she wants done and holding me accountable for doing it.  For her, that has translated into more chores and more orders to do things she wants done.  Take out the garbage.  Clean the cat's litter box.  Sweep up the floors.  And . . . I have really hated almost every minute of that. Some men get off on the "service submissive" thing.  I go in the exact opposite direction.  I absolutely hate it.  And not because I don't like doing my fair share around the house.  I do that, and I always have.  I just hate, hate, hate being told what do to or being interrupted when I want to keep doing something else.  However, the theory behind our whole approach to FLR is kind of a yin and yang thing.  Being bossed around rubs me so much the wrong way, because my personality is so naturally anti-authoritarian, and that has gotten me in a lot of trouble.  Making me do things I don't like humbles and balances me and, in the long run, that is good.  For her part, she has not always been as strong a personality as she could be with some practice and if she would get over  being concerned about being perceived as "bitchy.

So, her bossing me around does serve both our long-term needs, but it does not give me any short-term gratification at all.  Her? Well, she really likes it.  It is the one part of this that has come totally naturally to her.  Socialization and habit sometimes get in the way of rigorous implementation, but the desire is definitely there.  She genuinely likes giving me orders and, moreover, likes that I do not like being ordered. After living with me for years, she likes that I struggle to submit and that it is hard and humbling for me. Now, one could say that this isn't really about incompatible desires, because I acknowledge the service serves a long-term purpose that is good for me. True.  But, I also believe that this people need to recognize going into a DD or FLR relationship that one spouse may need, want or like something that doesn't particularly appeal to the other.  In real relationships, you don't always get what you want, and sometimes you have to do something you don't like because the other person does like it.  And of course, if submission really is submission, then it may involve giving in to something you really do not like and that, unlike the "dislike" associated with a hard spanking, is something that you really don't want regardless of whether it serves a larger purpose.  You give in to her wishes, because that is what you have agreed to to do.  Now, this is all rather obvious in theory, but I find it very difficult in practice.

Well, this ended up being a lot longer and very different than what I had planned for today.  Let's now hear from some our our DD and FLR practitioners about those aspects of the relationship they have struggled with, and what they might do differently if they could do it again.

I hope you all have a good week.  As always, if you are new to this Forum, please stop by the Guestbook (see tab above) and tell us something about yourself and your DD or FLR relationship.