The Club - Meeting 497 - Self-Disclosure and Asking for a Spanking

"The ability to have a choice in what you do is a privilege.” - Anton Yelchin

 Hello all.  Welcome back to the Disciplinary Couples Club.  Our weekly meeting of men and women who are in, or interested in being in, Domestic Discipline and Female Led (FLR) relationships.

 

Once again, before we get started, I would like to thank the female commenters who have recently joined us and to extend an invitation to all others who may be inclined to move from “lurker” to “commenter” status. We like having you around.

 

I hope you all had a great week. Ours was, honestly, not so great.  I got covid and flu shots at the end of last week.  The day of, and the day after, I felt fine.  Then, two full days later I got what felt like a full-on case of the real flu, complete with fever, chills, body aches, etc.  It left me pretty sapped for a couple of days.

 

Then, Anne and I got into a real row that began with something I said that probably was sarcastic and unsupportive, but I also felt like the reaction was over the top.  The details aren’t important and, honestly, I’m not sure they even mattered that much at the time.  We’ve basically been stuck together at home for the better part of two months, which probably made some kind of blow up inevitable, especially given my introverted inclinations that tend to go into full meltdown mode if I don’t get time to totally to myself (though dogs are allowed), every few weeks.

 

I feel like being housebound also inhibited my enjoyment of Halloween a bit, though honestly that feel probably had more to do with the fact that until about a week ago, it still felt like summer around here.  The day of Halloween I did see this picture of a lawn display that totally cracked me up. I swear I’m going to buy a riding lawn mower next year just to replicate it.

 

 

Before we get started, those of you in U.S. please, please, please remember to get out and vote if you haven’t already done so. The quote at the top of the page is one I’ve used before to reinforce a DD-related message, but this time it’s about remembering how privileged we are in having our election-related choices, even if some rounds those choices are more attractive than others.

 

 

We had a good discussion last week regarding DD’s efficacy in dealing with “big” issues.  What it reinforced for me was how differently we each define “big.”  But, I don’t think anyone was of the opinion that DD can’t address bigger issues, though several agreed with me that it might require taking things up a notch with respect to consistency and/or severity.

 

A few weeks ago, Norton suggested this topic:

 

"One topic we may want to discuss is how much self-disclosure we do. That is an issue I am dealing with now, as last week I did something she wouldn't have approved of, but I haven't mentioned yet. It will probably come up during our next check in, which is tomorrow.”

 

I thought we had done this one pretty recently but, when I reviewed past topics, it’s been at least a year since we dealt with this one directly. It’s probably tangentially related to my posts this spring about our check-ins for helping me get “unstuck” on life goals, but they aren’t quite the same thing.  So, let’s do it again.

 

Self-reporting, and its twin—asking for a spanking directly to address a particular incident—is something that always seems beneficial to me in theory but I really struggle to implement in practice.  I know that it almost certainly would help with consistency, which has been our DD’s historical weak point, yet when push comes to shove, I have a really hard time reporting bad behavior in a straightforward matter, let alone coming right out and asking for a spanking even when I know I richly deserve one.

 

Why? Well, the easy reason would, of course, be that spankings hurt a lot and, thus, I really don’t want to bring one on myself.  And, that really is what I would be doing if I made a habit of self-reporting.  The closest I come is probably when journaling, and even there it’s sometimes hard to be fully honest about all relevant behavior, and harder still to come out and ask for or suggest one, even though for all intents and purposes that’s what I’m doing.

 

Although an obvious answer, I don’t think that the pain of a prospective spanking really gets at the heart of my reluctance.  Instead, I think I find a direct, face-to-face confession of bad behavior to be very humbling, in a way that exceeds the spanking itself.   

 

The fact that I’m confessing something means I know I did something wrong, and admitting it straightforwardly and in person emphasizes a failure, whether that failure is meeting some personal standard, or an agreed-upon rule, or simply a failure to obey something she has told me to do or not do.  I see myself as a high-performance person, and having to confess to a specific problem demonstrates that, in that particular case, I didn't live up to a standard, whether mine or hers.

 

In the past, I also saw self-reporting or, as Norton called it, “self-disclosure” as potentially undermining my deep-seated need to have the sense that she is imposing discipline on me, as opposed to accommodating my request for it.

 

But, I’ve kind of come around on that one.  Around this time last year, TB posted something regarding his wife’s expectations that really stuck with me for a while.  He said:

 

“I now explicitly 'own up' to failings and request that she addresses them via a spanking has moved her sense of power and control (she says) to a new level. If I miss anything she will point it out during the pre-spanking 'talk'.

 

 

 

I was a little surprised that his wife felt a greater sense of power and control, since some might see it as him controlling the process more via reporting and asking for a spanking.  He explained:

 

“The only behaviors that she is interested in punishing me for are disrespect, moodiness, etc. - behaviors that impact her directly. She is, therefore, already aware of anything that I 'own up' to (and would usually take action to address either specifically or as a general 'reset').

 

She does see that my recognizing and admitting to the behavior before she takes action is another level of submission and self-awareness. In fact, although we have only been using this approach for a number of weeks, if I don’t ‘own up’ to some failing that was obvious to both of us, she will take extra spanking time to highlight that particular issue. A virtuous circle of sorts, in that I am encouraged to document my own failings even though I am aware of the consequences, because if I don't there is a very good chance that the next spanking session will be increased to cover the omission.

 

She is a big fan of the new approach, and she enjoys matching my journal view of my behavior with her own recollections. She also feels that it takes some of the pressure off her in deciding if/when a spanking is due. It helps me in that I dislike the delay & uncertainty between offense & punishment - if punishment is due then I am always keen to get it over and done with. My behavior has definitely been better for the past few weeks, mainly because I now feel that if I misbehave, I have to submit a 'confession'.

 

In theory tattling on myself does leave me in control. Yet, what TB says resonates with me.  The plain fact is, telling on myself ramps of the feeling of vulnerability.  Also, I’ve always said that DD works better when the consequences seem to arise inevitably from the behavior, and it’s certainly true that in confessing I make receiving the consequences much more inevitable. 

 

Therefore, it shouldn’t be surprising that in those very rare instances when I have not only disclosed something that but suggested it should be punished, I have felt less in control, not more so. And, in the tiny number of instances in which I have flat-out asked her, in person, to spanking me for something, I felt very vulnerable and not at all in control.  So, for me this a concrete example of why I hate the BDSM concept of "topping from the bottom" as applied to DD, especially when it is suggested that confessing for asking for a punishment constitutes such "topping" behavior.  There really isn't a time when I feel less in control than when I confess to something she didn't know about or suggest that something that probably was not going to earn a spanking really should.  To me, that's simply laying out the information, then letting fate take over from there.

 

I’ve also had some recent experiences, in a currently non-DD context, that highlight some of the complex psychology at work in self-reporting.  A few weeks ago, in response to one of Jackson’s comments regarding drinking, I said that I had been using an app that is popular in the “conscious drinking” movement, where the goal isn’t so much to stop but to moderate by making more fully-aware choices. It’s a pretty robust service. At the beginning of each week, I enter into a plan for each day, including goals for the number of dry days and specific limits on non-dry days. Each afternoon, I get a text reminding me what the goal was for that day. Every morning, I get a text asking how many I had the day before.  Every week, in preparing the weekly plan, I get a report of how I did for the preceding week and (supposedly) AI-generated suggestions for the upcoming week.

 

The thing I found the most interesting was how resistant I was initially to reporting honestly when I had failed by exceeding a daily goal. I’d get that text in the morning and, particularly if the failure was a big one, I’d struggle hard with being completely honest.   

 

 Now, the only one getting my “self-disclosure” was some computer program, and the summary reports went only to me, and there was no adverse consequence associated with any part of this reporting. Yet, I still really struggled to answer honestly!  I’ve made myself do it, and it’s gotten easier over time, but I am fascinated by how hard it was even in the absence of an actual consequence, such as a hard spanking.

 

And, the app has objectively helped in lowering my number of drinking days (though they were far less than daily already) and, to a lesser extent, the number of drinks on those days There is a principle in psychology called the Hawthorne Effect, which documents how people change their behavior simply by virtue of knowing that the behavior is being observed.  To some extent, that’s probably what’s going on with this drinking app, even though the only “observer” is a computer. Yet, I think it is actually something about the whole reporting process and the way it forces me to regularly think about my own behavior and set related goals.

 

Notice that the app has a few features that probably enhance the power of reporting. It is consistent. Every day, I get a reminder.  More importantly, every day I have to engage actively with the process by providing information. It is also certain.  If I answer honestly, I get a report that lays out the monthly calendar identifying how I did each day, and if I make bad choices it will be an ugly picture, even if I’m the only one that sees it.

 

The one thing it lacks is anything resembling coercive, adverse feedback, like a spanking. In fact, kind of the opposite. On good days and weeks, it provides some positive textual pats on the back, and on “failed” days it tells you not to judge yourself to harshly and encourages you to get up and try again. Honestly, I think it would work better if, at some point, the message would get a bit more “in your face,” like “Hey, that’s the third fail in two weeks. Are you even really trying?  Get on it.”

 

Circling back to this week’s bad behavior with Anne, I do think that having to affirmatively ask for a spanking would add a significant deterrent to future bad behavior.  Like TB’s wife, she obviously knows that the bad behavior (our argument) happened, so self-disclosure wouldn’t add anything in and of itself.  But, it could add a lot if she told me that she expects to come ask for a spanking to deal with it.  (Setting aside whether that’s physically doable right now; though it’s definitely getting closer if not there yet.)  Outside the context of something big, like a fight, I've wondered whether it would add a distinct humbling element to our usual DD rituals if, instead of her telling me when to get ready for my spanking, she ordered that one would happen over a given day or two, but left it to me to come in and ask for it when I was ready.  Honestly, just writing about the prospect gives me butterflies in my stomach.

Anyway, I’m interested to year your answers about how often you self-disclose and whether that self-disclosure rises to something like TB describes in which you are expected to not only ‘own up’ to the misbehavior but suggest or ask for a spanking to deal with.  If she requires self-disclosure of some sort, what is the consequence for failing to do it?

 

And, again, get out there and vote.

 

 

The Club - Meeting 496 - Domestic Discipline Spankings for "Big" Issues

“The difference between a successful person and others is not a lack of strength, not a lack of knowledge, but rather a lack in will.” ― Vince Lombardi Jr.

Hello all.  Welcome back to the Disciplinary Couples Club.  Our weekly meeting of men and women who are in, or interested in being in, Domestic Discipline and Female Led (FLR) relationships.

 

Once again, before we get started, I would like to thank the female commenters who have recently joined us and to extend an invitation to all others who may be inclined to move from “lurker” to “commenter” status. We like having you around.

 

I hope you all had a great week. Ours was pretty sedate, but given our recent medical challenges, sometimes it’s the little things that count.  We went out to dinner this week. That’s obviously not a big thing in and of itself, but it was the first time we’d been out together for anything other than medical appointments in about seven weeks.  Light at the end of the tunnel.

 

 

Fall also finally really committed to coming to our area. Took it long enough.  I don’t know why I love this time of year so much, but I do.  Well, maybe some of the reasons are pretty obvious.  I maintain Halloween is by far the sexiest holiday, as borne out by the fact I have way more Halloween themed spanking art and memes than I can ever use in one season.

 

 

Well, I accomplished what turned out to be my not-so-little project of plowing through all my old posts and the associated comments.  All 608 posts and 72,000 comments.  Although there were no big surprises, maybe a few things are worth mentioning, though I hit on a few of these in the last post:

 

·      I knew there was more female participating in the early years, but I had forgotten just how much more.

·      Many of those female participants seemed to be very aggressively in charge.  We can debate what an FLR is but, however you characterize it, many of those early female commenters clearly exercised, or aspired to exercise, very significant control over their men.

·      I wondered whether there was some change in the blog that drove the women away. Honestly, one big factor may have been way more pedestrian.  There was a period when Google’s “captcha” sign-on verification became damn near unworkable. I remember how hard it was to leave comments on others’ blogs.  Several people complained on mine, and it was right around that time that many of the female comments stopped.  My guess is, being very practical creatures, they had better things to do and just gave up. We also had a couple of serious “troll infestations” around that same time, and it’s possible those turned off some of the female commenters.

·      The political exchanges in 2020 and 2021 were nastier than I remembered.  Although I have no doubt it contributed to total readership falling, it’s hard to detect any impact on actual participation.  I’m staying away from political comments more this election, but not because I give a shit about total readership. I’m just kind of resigned to “what happens, happens” this time around, and I'm perhaps more realistic about the prospects of any discussion changing anyone’s mind.

·      From very early on, there were problems with men masquerading as women and individuals posing as couples.  It was impossible to police back then, and it’s just as impossible now. 

·      Topic interest comes and goes. There were topics I did early on that flopped but did quite well when I tried them again a couple of years later. 

·      It was interesting seeing how certain “features” of the discussion were introduced over time.  I had forgotten that in the earliest posts, I didn’t reply to most of the comments; that didn’t really change for several months. When I started introducing memes and spanking art, at first it was very sporadic, then only one per post, then finally several per post but each tailored to illustrate a particular point. 

·      My concerns about confidentiality and being “outed” were so paranoid, I would fudge the details on big things going on at work or in my personal life so thoroughly that reading them now, years down the line, I can’t even remember what some of them were referring to.

 

Of course, my biggest take away is just how long some of you have stuck around.  Thanks for sticking with it all these years and through so many repetitive posts.

 

Thanks to all of you who participated in last week’s open-ended discussion about how “FLR-ish” our respective marriages are.  My only big disappointment is that I was hoping to get more input from the wives. But, that’s a work in progress.  In the meantime, I felt KOJ (Yah, he’s back!), gave perhaps the best summary, with a couple of caveats, of what this thing we do includes and perhaps excludes:

 

“I would describe your blog as "F/m Domestic Discipline (DD)," with the following definitions:
F/m -- a woman has some authority over a man.
Domestic (for your blog) -- heterosexual, adult, live-in.
Discipline (for your blog) -- Includes spanking where sexual gratification is not the primary purpose.”

 

I think that’s mostly right.  My two primary caveats would be that I don’t feel like the “domestic” in DD necessarily excludes relationships that aren’t “live in” as long as, as Donn later noted, they are “committed,” which I would define as long-term and stable.

 

The other caveat for me personally is, when setting up the blog and managing it over the years, I've never intentionally excluded gay or trans relationships. It just never really came up.  I wouldn’t have a problem having one or both members of a gay couple participate, as long as the dynamic was basically the same as we talk about here, i.e. a domestic relationship with one partner in a lead or "top" disciplinary role holding the other partner accountable by imposing disciplinary measures including corporal punishment. It would probably be subject to a test run to see how in impacted the group dynamic, but I don’t have any reason to think that a gay DD relationship would be very different from a hetero DD dynamic.

 

 

The whole discussion of what factors influence whether a relationship is an FLR did take me in a direction I’ve previously resisted.  We often talk about DD and FLR being a spectrum, but I wonder whether they really are.  It seems to me they represent separate but adjacent lifestyles that overlap to a lesser degree for some and a larger degree for others.  In the past, I’ve been really resistant to seeing DD as a sub-set of any other relationships dynamic, but I do think that, given that there is some power shifting going on in even the most narrow forms of DD, it’s reasonable to classify it as one variant of a Dominance/submission dynamic, and one in which individual relationships incorporate various degrees of dominance. Though, I also can see maintaining that any form of Dominance/submission violates KOJ’s third factor, i.e. that sexual satisfaction not be the primary purpose.  As KOJ said, it's probably impossible to define, and that’s fine.

 

Now, on to this week’s topic. New commenter “Jackson” left this recent comment and topic suggestion:

 

Drinking more than allowed and sloppy behavior has been a continuous, persistent issue. Although discipline has improved it a lot, I think with an occasional pegging and brutal spanking it might be permanently resolvable with FLR/DD alone. Drinking is a large and complex problem, and I used to think those were not really solvable with FLR/DD, but since we have made certain every spanking is a brutal, memorable event with surrender and submission at its end, I think I could be disciplined to moderate drinking. I am much improved already. Maybe pegging is what is needed (but rarely). Dan maybe a topic sometime is “Can FLR/DD solve big complex issues?”

 

So, let’s get into that.  Can the discipline that comes along with a DD and/or FLR relationship solve big, complex issues?

 

I’ll start by observing that what each person sees as a “big” problem is inherently individual.  And, even for each individual, it may be a complex analysis. 

 

Perhaps his forgetfulness around financial issues usually isn't a big deal, but what if it results in her incurring a bunch of extra time or having to deal with a big unnecessary headache?

It also may hinge on particular outcomes, right?  Everyday procrastination might not be a big problem, but what if it results in not paying bills on time, thereby ruining the couple’s credit rating?

 

 

I don't think of speeding tickets as a big deal, but I know others do. And, even I concede they could become a big deal if cumulatively they resulted in a license suspension or a big jump in insurance rates. Or, in today's environment, god forbid a road rage incident got out of hand.

Or, maybe carelessness becomes such a chronic problem that, while one instance may not be a big deal, cumulatively the damages adds up. Or, it could be like what happened with a couple of motorcycle trips I’ve discussed in which I failed to do some basic preparation and, while no disaster happened, it could have and, regardless of whether it actually did, it stressed me out, cost us additional money to fix mistakes, etc.

 

Are those “big” things? In isolation, some might not be. But, they may be part of a larger pattern. And, there is the fact that sloppiness on things that don't matter much still creates habits that can lead to sloppiness on things that do.

 

The best statement I’ve found among our blog comments was this from ZM, which began with an observation about how hard it may be for wives to be strict with regard to “small things”:

 

“I think this is a common problem, especially as wives are gaining experience, because in order for it to be a real punishment for an adult, a spanking must be quite hard and long. This is especially true if the recipient is an adult who may fantasize about spanking. Pretty much EVERY punishment is going to be relatively big, and this doesn't seem quite as fair for seemingly "small" things.

 

It is only by the wife seeing the bigger picture and realizing that by addressing the small things, she is also addressing the bigger issues, that the whole thing seems in any way fair or proportional. Is it fair to spank me to tears because I leave my socks on the floor? Of course not! On the other hand, is it fair to spank me to tears because I continually let deadlines slip past, ultimately jeopardizing our quality of living? Sure. Is it fair to spank me tears because I eat a hamburger and too many fries? Probably not. Is it fair to spank me to help me change my eating habits and massively improve my health, greatly increasing the chances I can live for many more years and enjoy life, family, etc.? Of course.

 

So only by seeing that the small things and the bigger things are all just parts of the same picture can she feel good about consistently monitoring these little day-to-day things and enforcing seemingly minor lapses with severe enough punishments that they can help to effect real change.”

 

Jackson’s question referred to drinking too much, and that is the problem I’ve talked about the most here over the years. It undoubtedly has led to more spankings over time than any other offense. Yet, is it really my biggest issue?  That’s debatable.  To put it in context, in the month of September, I drank only three times. 

 

When I look at the big picture, there is a strong argument to be made that other behavioral failings, such as procrastination, carelessness, inattention to detail, and a reputation for being difficult to manage were much bigger limiting factors where work success and overall quality of life were concerned than drinking ever has been.

 

But, of those three drinking occasions in September, two of them involved “a few” becoming “a few too many,” and that’s been an ongoing problem for me. And, I've always recognized that it's not really the over-consumption that itself is a problem but, rather, the potential impact on other commitments or goals.

 

So, while perhaps it’s not the biggest issue, it’s still big enough.

 

So, can DD help with big issues?  Personally, I believe it probably can but it may require bringing the whole panoply of disciplinary tools to bear.  That could include cranking up the frequency and severity of the spankings, giving more preventative spankings, doing more check-ins and monitoring, and exploring alternative punishments.

 

To illustrate, one big problem with using DD to root out my particular issue with binge drinking is that the problem isn’t consistent, so it’s hard to say more consistent spanking alone would help.  As I said in reply to Jackson:

 

I've come to doubt whether DD will do much for it, though in fairness (a) I do think it has some modest role in imposing some guardrails, even if I crash through them every once in a while; and (b) we've never achieved a really high degree of consistency and certainty. In some ways, that reflects the nature of my issue. I'm not remotely close to a daily drinker. It's just that when I do drink, it can turn into a binge. Since the drinking is so episodic, the spankings have been too, only more so.

 

In other words, while consistently spanking for each instance of excessive drinking might help, it’s hard to see how consistency would have resulted in more than an incremental improvement when the problem itself is so inconsistent.

 

But, maybe that isn't the primary consideration when judging efficacy.  Maybe more consistency would have imposed some real limits and guardrails, even if the problem still occurred episodically.

 

On the other hand, let’s look at something like smoking. I started using chewing tobacco in high school, graduating to cigarettes in college, and eventually came to use both in copious daily amounts. I tried to quit many times, but I was very, very physically addicted.  I eventually did kick the habit cold turkey, but only after multiple failures.

 

It's probably not a coincidence that my successful effort to quit happened after Anne and I got serious, even though that was a decade before we started DD. I knew she hated the smell and taste of smoke, and that disapproval may have given me the extra incentive I needed.

 

In that case, and maybe paradoxically, because my dependence on nicotine was displayed multiple times a day, I do think that had we been into DD at that time, it might have made one of those earlier failed attempts successful if, and only if, Anne had been determined to take consistent action to root it out.  If her mere disapproval helped me kick the habit, how much more so would disapproval combined with a severe paddling each and every time have helped? My guess is . . . a lot.

 

So, the nature of the “big” issue may be very important to how amenable it is to solving with Domestic Discipline.

 

It also may be the case that, despite the numerous serious spankings Anne has given me for over-indulging, there hasn’t been enough of a “whatever it takes” approach.  As I've confessed here, when I go out with a friend for happy hour, after the second drink I sometimes forget all about the possible consequences. But, would I forget if I knew that one binge incident might result in a week’s worth of daily spankings? Here is an older comment from “DWC Fred” that suggests that the wife's level of sheer determination and willingness to be extraordinarily strict do matter:

 

“Ann has only spanked me for “big” things three times in recent years. [Once was] for being upset with her and expressing myself and carrying on badly. A couple of days later I apologized, and we spoke about it. I was in tears because of how I had spoken to her and made her feel. After our discussion she sentenced me to a spanking every day, for four days.

 

They were horrible. From day two on I was crying as I pulled down my pants and had difficulty calling Ann to tell her I was ready.

 

Four days in a row is a whole new ballgame, both from an emotional perspective and the pain perspective. Anticipating the increased pain and the additional embarrassment of crying from the time I pulled down my underwear, and getting even more out of control by the time Ann was done spanking, made days 2,3, and 4 successively worse.

I’ve never repeated any of those offenses.”

 

I also strongly suspect that my failure to think of likely consequences might be reduced substantially if some consequences were imposed in advance via preventative spankings.  

 

So, while I do think some “big” things may be resistant to a traditional “one regular spanking per one offense” approach, that doesn’t necessarily means spanking is inherently insufficient to address serious problems. Rather, maybe the seriousness of the sanction needs to be cranked up to match the seriousness of the offense or the number of times it has recurred.

 

How about you?  Have you used to DD to address “big” issues?  What worked? What didn’t?  If they haven't worked, was it a matter of spankings' inherent limitation, or more a lack of will and determination to make them effective? Are there things that could be added to DD spankings to make them more effective in resolving bigger issues?

 

Have a great week. 

The Club - Meeting 495 -- FLR-ish? When does domestic discipline become FLR?

“To say that we mutually agree to coercion is not to say that we are required to enjoy it, or even to pretend we enjoy it.” - Garrett Hardin

Hello all.  Welcome back to the Disciplinary Couples Club.  Our weekly meeting of men and women who are in, or interested in being in, Domestic Discipline and/or Female Led (FLR) relationships.

Once again, before we get started, I would like to thank the female commenters who have recently joined us and to extend an invitation to all others who may be inclined to move from “lurker” to “commenter” status. We like having you around.

Well, it took longer than any year I can recall, but summer seemed to finally capitulate and give way to a real fall.  As I write this, I look out my bedroom window at a grey sky as backdrop for waves of yellow and red trees (with still a little green). When I took the dogs for their morning walk, I had to put on one of my cold weather coats.  Love it!

Unfortunately, I am way, way behind my normal schedule in putting up Halloween yard decorations, since most of them go on the lawn and, until a few days ago, I was still watering and cutting grass.  

Anne continues to convalescence and, since I’ve been more or less homebound, there’s very little to report. Turns out this good behavior stuff leaves me with a lot less to talk about on the blog!  It’s not clear when Anne will realistically be in paddle-wielding form again, but I don’t think it’s too far away.  And, while my recent behavior may not have earned one, I get the sense she’s keeping score of things that have gone unpunished during this little medically-induced break, probably because she's told me so.  I guess we'll be seeing where things stand by Halloween.

As for how I’ve been keeping busy during this break, it’s what led, in part, to this week’s topic and an accompanying request to the group for feedback on the blog’s direction.

Over the last couple of weeks, I have spent hours—way too many to count—going through virtually all my old blog posts since it began in 2013, reviewing and copying “the best” comments on various topics.  Over the 11 year history of these daily gatherings, we’ve had 607 posts (some were “no post this week” notices, though a surprising number of those generated full-blown discussions) and, at last count, 26,963 comments.  I now have only about a full year of comments to go (excluding 2024). So, like I said, it has been a lot of hours.  

I’ll probably give some detailed observations from that review in another post, but one thing in particular jumped out at me.  I knew that in the early days we had more female commenters than we do today, but I’d kind of forgotten just how many more.  Some didn’t stick around that long, but there were quite a few who dropped in from time to time.  

But, what really got my attention reading sequentially all the comments from those Disciplinary Wives was just how into being fully in control many of them were.  Even though I was not focusing on Female Led Relationships (FLRs) per se at that point but, rather, only F/m discipline, many of the female commenters sure were, including many who expressly identified themselves as being in that dynamic. And, even those who didn’t use that label often brought an unmistakably “FLR-ish” vibe, for lack of a better word, to the conversation. 

A few examples:

“A wife may and generally should consult with her husband in setting or readjusting boundaries. But ultimately it is her decision what those boundaries are at any point and her decision when and why a punishment occurs. If he does not understand why he is being punished it is her responsibility to explain it to him. But he must accept her judgement whether he agrees or not.” – Marisa

“My advice for husbands is to accept their punishments with as much grace and dignity as possible and to understand their wife would not be spanking them if she did not love them. A man should not worry whether his wife might spank for this or that nearly as much as he should worry that she might give up on it and stop spanking all together. My advice for wives is decide clearly if you are willing to take on the responsibility of being a disciplinarian ( and it is a responsibility) If you decide to go ahead, go all the way establishing your authority with firmness and consistency. It’s a great lifestyle between a loving couple but it IS a lot of work. - Marisa

“I have zero tolerance for disobedience. What would be the point of a FLR if my husband could choose whether or not to do as he’s told?” – Danielle

“My ideal spanking for my husband has to do with attitude and obedience. Other things like location, his position and the tool or tools I use aren’t very important (although I do like to use a strap and the sound it makes) I want him to submit immediately when I decide a spanking and to be obedient and cooperative through the whole thing.” – Holly

“Our DD is rules based plus, meaning if he breaks a rule or disobeys me his pants come down, end of sentence. The plus part is I decide when it happens and if I say he has broken a rule, he has, no backtalk, no second chances.  Rules based plus just made sense from the beginning. He wanted rules and structure but wanted to choose when to obey and what rules he would follow. He thought it was going to be an erotic game. I straightened him out on that score and a few other things. Along the way I found out things about myself I didn't know and ways to handle him I needed to learn. We have very few disagreements now and these are settled quickly. I sometimes wonder if he would have asked for all this if he had known where it was going. It doesn't really matter because we are not going back.” –  Amy

“Accepting and living in a FLR provides clarity and peace. When I have control of decisions, it is on me. There's no blaming or the inevitable well you just didn't understand my plan when it went wrong. It's a heavy responsibility to try to make the right decision all the time, but at least I have control over it and I can own it. For my husband, it takes much of the decision fatigue of guessing what the right answer might be or waiting for me to get angry when his suggestion doesn't work. This is simple and clean. My choice, my responsibility, his responsibility to follow. The clarity of it is a significant component of why we do this.” – Rhiannon

Note the heavy focus on obedience, as well as on not just the benefits but the responsibilities of taking the lead in a F/m disciplinary relationship.

I probably should not have been surprised.  Like so many before and after me, I came to the whole concept of Domestic Discipline through The Disciplinary Wives Club.  Over the last year, I’ve spent a fair amount of time reviewing not only the website but also the DWC handbooks.  It now leaps out at me, in a way that it didn’t when I first encountered it, just how much Aunt Kay and Jerry leaned on the same “obedience” and “control” themes that those early blog commenters emphasized.  It struck me that, while Kay kept explicitly sexual material out of the DWC materials, that doesn’t mean she wasn’t advocating a very FLR-ish power shift.  There are lots of examples, but here is one that encapsulates her view of the appropriate power dynamic:

“Effective discipline begins well before you ever reach the point of administering a spanking.  It begins with your awareness of your own personal power and your belief that you are indeed the right woman to handle this (which you are).  From now on you expect to be obeyed!

Think about where you are.  Your husband has come to you and asked you to please take over his discipline.  He has empowered you to assume the maternal role and has agreed to take the child role with respect to discipline.  He wants more than anything else for you to be powerful, assertive and in control.  It is a beautiful thing, really.  He is practically begging you to reach into your internal strength, which he correctly senses is in you, and take him to the woodshed when he needs it.  Believe me, not only can you do this, it gets better and better.”

There are other quotes where she makes clear that, while getting the husband's “buy in” to the rules is the ideal, it isn’t strictly necessary.  What is necessary is his unfailing obedience to his wife's determination of what is punishment-worthy and her decisions regarding when, how and how long.

“The definition of a DWC relationship is that the woman’s role involves providing moral and behavioral guidance to the man and invests in her the absolute authority to decide upon and wield punishments accordingly.  The man’s role is to accept this authority and strive to gain benefit from it. 

Discipline is based on mutual understanding about the rules of behavior in the home and what to expect if they are broken.  While you have the authority to set the rules, it all works out best if you discuss them with your husband and allow him to “negotiate” some of the rules, so he does in fact feel responsibility for them too.  When a discipline session is called for, it must always be given.  This is especially true when you are beginning your new journey as a DWC wife.”

As longer-term group members know, I’ve gone back and forth on how much to promote FLR relationships on the blog, versus sticking to something more exclusively focused on the corporal punishment aspects, i.e. spanking, of Domestic Discipline.  It did seem like every time I would move consciously in that direction, the BDSM crowd would descend in droves.

But, the real driving force behind the decision was following Aunt Kay’s lead in trying to make it an inviting place for women, many of whom I knew would be turned off by anything involving stereotypical Femdom.

On the other hand, after sifting through thousands of those older comments, it seems clear to me that several of our most active female commenters were either in self-identified FLRs or in relationships that were very FLR-ish.

It led me to ask myself, have I been drawing the line in the right place?  It got me to wondering how some of our new female commenters think of their relationships, not so much in terms of what specific label they apply but, rather, in terms of the breadth of relationship control they exercise and how much of an “I’m in charge” vibe they bring to the whole thing.

My questioning regarding my past line drawing was somewhat reinforced by the profiles of the women who have been following my writing on Medium.  Many of them also seem to be heavily oriented toward FLRs. But, it’s dicey drawing conclusions from that platform, because so many of my followers are erotica writers (Medium is first and foremost a writing platform) and, hence, there tends to be an emphasis on sexual content in many of the profiles.

It seems like every time the topic of FLRs is raised expressly here, we get into long debates about definitions and defining whether we see our particular relationship is falling squarely in the FLR bucket.  I’d really like to avoid that this time. Instead, here is a list of relationship aspects that seem to me to indicate that the couple is going beyond the narrowest form of DD in which both agree to specific offenses that will punished and also agree to all the major how, when and where aspects.  In other words, I’m focusing on the quality and extent of the wife’s authority.  Further, I’ve added a few things that try to get at the general tone. There is a rough progression in the extent or quality of the authority, as I view it.  

I am very sure some will quibble on whether some items belong on the list and others will point out that I forgot certain factors, which is fine. This is meant to stimulate discussion, not to provide some authoritative checklist. So, here goes:

1. If the couple have formal rules for what is spankable, she determines whether his behavior qualifies.  He may (or may not) be allowed to state his case, but she makes the decision and can spank even if he objects.
2. If the couple has rules, she determines in advance what they are.  
3. She can add a rule around spanking any time, at her sole discretion, but with some discussion in advance.
4. There are no formal rules. Rather, she has unlimited discretion to determine the “why” when it comes to spanking.
5. She determines behaviors and habits she expects him to do, not do, or develop and instructs him to do so.  His views may be solicited, but ultimately she decides.
6. His buy-in on what is spankable is ideal but not necessary.  If she determines he should get spanked for something, he gets spanked.
7. In addition to the “why,” she determines the “how” and the “when.”
8. She is verbally stern and feels comfortable giving him instructions on her expectations regarding his behavior.  She is comfortable giving harsh lectures and scolding, including outside the spanking context.
9. There is a heavy emphasis on obedience, not simply around not breaking rules but also doing what she says and following her directions/orders as they are given.
10. She decides how openly to display her authority or the existence of the DD relationship. She chooses to add elements to spankings that are designed to humble him or elevate her power.  For example: Hinting or referring to the DD relationship to friends or family. Conducting spankings at a time in place that risks one being overheard.  Bringing in a witness to overhear, see, or participate in a spanking. 
11. Her decision-making authority extends beyond spanking and disciplinary matters to include broader aspects of the relationship such as financial and spending decisions, parenting decisions, health issues, etc.  While decisions may typically be made jointly, if there is a dispute, she has the final say. 

Like I said, I’m sure people can come up with many other factors to look at and, again, I’m not saying that any of these factors independently determine whether a relationship is or is not an FLR.  I see each as more like a data point indicating that the relationship has aspects that go beyond mere DD.

To reinforce my hope that this doesn’t devolve into another debate about definitions or box labeling, I’m not going to say whether I think Anne and I are in an FLR or to what degree.  Instead, I’ll give a very short overview of where I think we are on some of the aspects identified above.

First, when it comes to decisions around the “why,” “when,” where,” and “how” of spanking discipline, she rules, though we’ve never been that adventurous on any of them.  Regarding the “why”—which I see as the most indicative of her discretion—she can and has punished me for things we never agreed would be spankable. There also have been times she’s given me spankings that were much harder or longer than I thought the offense merited.

Regarding decision-making outside the context of spankings and punishment, it’s a muddier situation. On the “FLR-ish” side, she has done things like telling me when to go to bed or deciding on her own when we will leave a party.  

On a recent trip, she didn’t like that I was speeding and told me that if I got a ticket, I would get a spanking every day that week. 

Now, those were still linked to spanking in that spanking would have been a consequence of contrary decisions on my part. Still she was more or less imposing the rules as she went along and not worrying about whether I agreed.  

On major decisions, there definitely are some areas where I would not defer. For example, a major decision regarding finances. It’s a little theoretical because we haven’t had any real disputes in those areas, but I think it’s fair to say that neither of us see her “tie-breaking” authority to extend into all areas of our relationship.  On the other hand, she has gotten more assertive in making certain decisions that I see as significant, such as deciding we are taking an extensive foreign vacation without asking me for my views about it.

In terms of openly displaying her authority, over the last couple of years she’s gotten less risk-averse when it comes to others knowing. It’s nowhere close to being fully “out” with her authority, but things like spanking in front of an open window in daytime now happen routinely and would not have a few years ago.  Moreover, she didn’t ask for my input on that. Instead, I went to close the window shades at the beginning of a session, and she told me to leave them open.  Full stop.  

Although she hasn’t chosen to tell anyone herself, she has had some open discussions about our DD relationship with a mutual friend who I told, including telling that friend that I would be getting a spanking after I engaged in what Anne saw as domineering conversational behavior at dinner.

Regarding others knowing, she hasn’t told anyone herself. She has hinted at the spanking aspect a couple of times in front of relatives (primarily our daughters), but the hints were pretty vague.  The ebony hairbrush and bath brush are now always on display on our bathroom counter.  (I don’t recall exactly, but I think I started leaving the hairbrush out after a session, and she soon followed by placing the bath brush alongside it.)  We seem to be a long way from anything like a witnessed spanking or open revelations about the details of our DD relationship and, if we were to go in that direction, it very likely would be because of prodding from me.

One problem with any attempt to apply pre-set criteria is that, in my opinion, a lot of the difference between DD and FLR relationships is more qualitative than objective.  It’s a matter of tone and comfort with wielding authority, sometimes sternly. One thing that jumped out at me in the quotes above was the overt insistence on “obedience.”  To me, that goes beyond merely cooperating with her spanking decisions.  It’s about her making a broad range of decisions and expecting them to be carried out, even when he disagrees, including on things that restrict his own autonomy. 

On that factor, I think it’s a mix and kind of a backward one at that. I do think I obey most—though not all—the time when she tells me to do or not do something.  But, she has seldom overtly emphasized “obedience” as an expectation in the way you see in the above quotes. I do see that as perhaps indicating that, if we are in an FLR, it is on the milder end of the spectrum.

What are your thoughts on all this?  Again, I don’t want to get into a bunch of “angels dancing on the heads of pins” definitional debates, but I would be curious to hear whether you see your relationship as something that goes well beyond “mere” DD; something closer to her having real power or authority over you.  Whether yes or no, is her authority and use of it as extensive and open as you want (or think you want)?

I would be particularly interested in hearing from the Disciplinary Wives on how much power they feel they have in the relationship and, as importantly, how much they would like to have. Do you have unlimited authority on the spanking aspects of the relationship? Does your authority extend beyond that? Do you want it to?  Whatever the extent of your authority, are you comfortable with it, or do you want more?

Finally, I’d like to hear perspectives on whether I have been drawing the line around acceptable subject matter in the right place and, if not, where you'd suggest drawing it.  I’m not promising I will change anything, but I would like to get more perspectives, especially since we have several new-ish participants.

Have a great week.