“Not everything that is faced can be changed, but nothing can be changed until it is faced.” ― James Baldwin
Hello all. Welcome back to the Disciplinary Couples Club. Our weekly meeting of men and women who are in, or interested in being in, Domestic Discipline and Female Led (FLR) relationships.
Once again, before we get started, I would like to thank the female commenters who have recently joined us and to extend an invitation to all others who may be inclined to move from “lurker” to “commenter” status. We like having you around.
Well . . . that week was quite a year, wasn’t it? It’s very hard for a political junkie like me not to comment in detail, but what’s the point at this stage? I’m really an “I told you so,” kind of guy anyway, so I’ll hold my fire for a more opportune moment, which is inevitably right around the corner.
It was a little quiet here on the forum last week. I wonder what else people had going on.
Anyway, while the conversation was a little slow, it still was good. One of the best, in my opinion, didn’t really have anything to do with the actual topic but was, rather, a great statement on how putting one person in charge can, paradoxically, lead to more collaborative and inclusive decision-making. It was this from Jackson:
“I believe my wife and I already had a close, good marriage. We have been together for over 30 years, but only a little less than 2 years have we introduced FLR with DD. I have to say it has greatly improved the way we treat each other…not only am I much more respectful, calm and better behaved in almost every way, She treats me better too. She asks my opinion and consider it more often than She used to before DD. I think it’s because She has more confidence knowing that She will ultimately be the Decider…so She feels less need to sell Her point of view or dig in on Her positions. Knowing that I will stay in my lane and after voicing respectfully any disagreement I will conform to Her wishes or face the consequences which are now very clear because of DD. Before DD consequences could be the silent treatment, sleeping in a different bedroom, withholding sex…all of that is gone now…and settled with the paddle and strap.”
I think that’s a great point about how people who are confident in their decision-making authority can actually be more open to the kind of input that leads to better decisions. It seems like kind of the opposite of a Femdom model.
This week’s topic comes from one of our group members but, unfortunately, I wrote down the topic suggestion but neglected to write down who made it. Anyway, here it is:
“When should a spanking stop? Bruised? Spotting (remember ZM's observations)? Signs of surrender? Tears? Numbing? Time limit? Number of swats?”
In our household, there is a big difference between when a spanking “should” stop and when it usually does. Many here have noted the irony so many of us experience in which, while we are over her knee or draped over her favorite piece of furniture, we can’t wait for a spanking to end. Yet, when it does, we often feel like maybe it should have gone on a bit longer.
To me, when “should” a spanking stop probably depends, in the first instance, on her purpose in giving it. We don’t do maintenance spanking and have only very rarely done preventative, and those obviously might have a different end-point than a punishment spanking because they have a different purpose.
Assuming we are talking about punishment spankings, however, for me the the answer would be that a spanking should end when she believes her message has been received and absorbed and/or when she’s determined that he’s gone from saying he is sorry to truly being sorry.
So, when do spankings end in our household? Eight times out of ten, it’s the condition of my bottom. Bruises don’t really set the bar because they usually don’t appear until well after the spanking is over.
Often, it’s the “spotting” that ZM has talked about in previous posts, i.e. tiny, tiny droplets of blood. I don’t think of these as real “bleeding,” because the skin often isn’t even noticeably abraded, let alone broken. It’s more like tiny droplets were forced up through the skin from the force of the repeated swats. Now, I don’t know whether that is the mechanism, but I do know that often she will tell me that I’m “bleeding,” but when I get up and go to the bathroom, a tissue reveals nothing at all.
Some spankings end because of numbing, but I think that too is probably too early a marker to set. As some have pointed out, the pre-numbing swats are the immediate punishment, but post-numbing swats still serve a purpose, as they result in that deep-seated reminder that you feel multiple days later.
I conflate “tears” and “signs of surrender,” though they might be distinct for others. I’ve never gotten to tears despite some very hard, long spankings. But, I know some of our commenters have said they got to tears precisely because the wife let them him know in advance that she expected tears and that the spanking would not stop until she got them.
As far as I remember, we’ve never set a timer for a spanking, and I personally lose all sense of time when over her knee.
As for setting a number of swats, in the very early days we had a system that prescribed a minimum number of swats per designated offenses. But, she gained confidence as a spanker so quickly, that system didn’t last very long. If she now has a particular number of swats/strikes in mind when she starts spanking, she’s never told me that, and I think it would not be helpful if she did. If she told me in advance how many to expect, I think I would have an even harder time surrendering to the message she is trying to convey and, instead, I would be counting down each swat and trying to gut it out.
One end-point that wasn’t on our commenter’s list was when I don’t think I can take anymore. That’s never been a part of our dynamic and, in fact, for us the whole point is for her to give me a spanking I don’t think I can handle so I am maximally incentivized not to repeat the behavior that caused me to be over her knee.
How about you? When do you think a spanking should end? Is there a difference between when it usually does in and when it probably should?
I hope you have a great week.
The obvious answer is when she decides it should stop. However, since we are topping from the bottom, I don't think it should stop until the spankee is either crying real tears or has visible lasting marks. We all know that to be effective it needs to be memorable. I think many of us like myself may feel that the spanking should be more severe than we get. I always think afterwards that she went too easy on me. She has never made me cry real tears. I have been close but she either stops or I become numb. She has however on occasion left lasting marks in the crease making it memorable. Bottom line (pun intended) she is in charge and decides when she is finished.
ReplyDeleteSorry, I don't buy most of the "topping from the bottom" theory as applied to DD. It's an import from BDSM that seems to mostly serve to get in the way of real communications in real DD relationships.
DeleteHi Spanky53. You're kind of making my point though when referring to 'your Tops," i.e that it's a concept coming out of BDSM world, while DD is focused on ongoing, committed, long-term relationship and aims at a totally different goal than BDSM.
DeleteWhen you hear a noise upstairs.
ReplyDeleteWhen the cheap hairbrush breaks.
When she remembers she has to email her boss before tomorrow.
Oh, that's not what you meant? :)
I definitely recall that first one when we were first starting and our kids were in grade school.
DeleteIn my opinion, spanking should stop when the lesson is learned. How to determine this probably varies from person to person, but in my case I can say that it is usually when the eyes are wet and the butt is swollen and bruised. Surely the spanking should last longer than the moment that I can't take it anymore. Of course, it doesn't always work like that in real life, and I've also felt many times that it should have lasted a little longer, but then the reason is usually that there is some bleeding wound from the spanking. After my wife started using post-orgasm spankings, I haven't felt it anymore, that it wasn't enough. In terms of time, I suggest that our spankings last somewhere between 5-15 minutes and are all quite intense and very painful from start to finish, and often the marks are still visible days later. I myself like it when after spanking the butt still hurts the next day or the day after, but to achieve that you need those 15 min sessions where the butt is already quite numb but the spanking continues.
ReplyDeleteFor the first few years practicing DD, bruises almost always happened and were large and very visible. Today, it's more like the skin becomes a shade of gray for a few days. I honestly miss that visible reminder, together with the multi-day soreness.
Delete"I myself like it when after spanking the butt still hurts the next day or the day after, but to achieve that you need those 15 min sessions where the butt is already quite numb but the spanking continues." - Exactly. Spanking is still effective (maybe more so) after the onset of numbness, because that is where soreness is developed. Sting mostly lasts as long as the spanking lasts, and even though it might be excruciating at the time, and even thought you might be ready to do anything to get the spanking to stop, as soon as the spanking does stop it is easy to forget just how painful it was at the time. Soreness works for days, and keeps reminding you of the punishment, which allows adequate time for reflection and hopefully improved behavior.
Delete-ZM
ZM, you made that point here a while back, and it really stuck with me. I hadn't thought of it before, but I'm sure you're right.
DeleteSomewhere on the Internet is a drawing. In it a grown young man is holding his very sore buttocks and doing what is called the spank dance, there are clear tears in his eyes and his mouth open indicating some distress. Sat on a wooden chair is a women, she is holding an hairbrush, she is dressed only in her under garments but she is looking at the man and her lips and eyes show she is content with a job well done. That to me is the perfect artistic interpretation of when a spanking should stop. Cheers GLM.
ReplyDeleteI'm pretty sure I have a copy of that drawing in my collection somewhere.
DeleteDo please find and show. Cheers GLM.
DeleteSounds like the piece titled 'The Hairbrush Dance' on Banjo's BBS blog.
DeleteAnd I agree, that kind of deeply humbling display of vulnerability to one's partner is a great sign that the spanking went long enough. Is it really achievable? Probably not, at least not for most couples. But for those who have a relationship where that kind of response can emerge, that would be the natural ending point. Nothing really expresses being put in one's place like the loss of composure.
Thank you Jake. Cheers GLM.
DeleteAs you can see I have rediscovered said drawing.
DeleteI don't think your profile is shared. When I click on it to tsee the drawing, it says your profile is unavailable.
DeleteTry now Dan. Cheers GLM.
DeleteGot it. I actually didn't have that one in my collection.
DeleteA very common comment on this site is that a spanking no matter how hard and long leaves the man feeling it was still inadequate. As P.P. said and as I've repeatedly suggested, it is extremely unlikely that a man will feel that a post-orgasm spanking is insufficient.
ReplyDeleteWe decided that it works even better if she makes sure that I'm totally drained with no sexual desire left whatsoever. That means that she continues the penile stimulation for at least another minute after my last spurt while verbally reminding me what I did wrong and what will happen next. When she's done, my eyes are often already wet and tears are close.
As yet another of the participants mentioned several weeks ago, the ensuring spanking accompanied with a lecture/scolding and the admonishment that it won't stop until tears will most often induce crying even if at a low level. That s/b of interest to those who would like to cry, which is indeed an intense emotional release when accomplished.
I would finally note that the spanking itself doesn't have to be any more severe than normal to reach the desired end.
I would again suggest that folks give it a try. And -- be honest -- what is holding you back? The results will be very effective in that you will think SERIOUSLY before repeating the erroneous behavior any time soon, which is supposedly the goal of many readers on this site.
Graham
I think what is holding me back is probably the same thing that caused me to throw away all our heavy rubber instruments, i.e. the feeling that there sometimes is such a thing as "too much." But, even though I have no personal experience with it, I don't disagree that it probably should in a wife's arsenal. I just tend to agree with Alan's frequently stated position that while it should be in the arsenal, it probably should be reserved for something like behavior that is not changing in reaction to regular spankings or for select, very serious offenses.
DeleteQuite the topic for the week. I think everyone’s response will be different. I think each wife on here delivers a different level of discipline. I don’t like
ReplyDeletethe topping from bottom line as well. I gave constructive feedback without critiquing my wife’s level of discipline.
I felt it important to explain my feelings as well as getting feedback from her as well. She has become much more comfortable in her roll as a disciplinarian. Her level of scolding and intense thrashing is night and day compared to when we started. As for when should it should stop? How does anyone know when the lesson is actually learned. How does your wife truly know you learned a lesson. I don’t describe to the when tears are flowing aspect. My wife thrashes as hard as anyone’s on here and I’ve never had tears. Eventually there is numbing and I start not to feel much. I think the only way a lesson is learned is if it isn’t repeated. An example would be, if she has to ask you to take the trash out every week. She spanks you week one and two. Week three she has to thrash you again. Have you learned anything? As far as the post orgasm spanking, I’ve had one before and it was unintentional. We had fooled around in the morning and no more than an hour later, she had forgotten about discipline. She called me upstairs and delivered a paddling. I hate to say it, but hurt just as much as if I hadn’t had an orgasm an hour prior. So for me anyway, there is no correlation between pre and post. I have felt at times that my wife should have continued the thrashing longer. My bottom was already in poor condition and she felt I learned the lesson.
T
T, I agree that if there is no change in behavior, a wife should probably ask herself whether she is spanking long enough and hard enough. I think another end-point, however, may be less about whether his behavior actually changes but about whether she feels vindicated or that she has held him accountable.
DeleteOn post-orgasm spankings, I have no real experience so it's hard for me to talk intelligently about it. I do wonder whether even an hours break between the orgasm and the spanking might have a big influence on the level of perceived pain. For me, in those first few minutes after an orgasm, I feel profoundly drained of sexual energy and energy in general. I can understand why having that background sexual energy completely gone could dramatically change the experience. But, an hour later, I've usually recovered a lot and feel pretty close to normal again.
Indeed! T indicated that he waited an hour by which time one would have mostly recovered from the orgasm. Even 20 minutes is too long. If one wants the full effect, it must IMMEDIATELY follow the orgasm. And, as noted above, the orgasm s/b totally draining and therefor not all that pleasureful. I positively guarantee that every man will benefit from trying it at least once just to understand how effective it can be.
DeleteAs I mentioned in a note a few months ago, it also turned my wife into a more enthusiastic spanker. She would never, ever want to really hurt me, and this routine demonstrates my true submission to her discipline and delivers better results than just whacking my butt longer and harder.
Anyone who really wants discipline in their life should at least try it a couple times.
Graham
Graham,
DeleteYour arguments favoring post orgasm spanking are interesting. From the point of view of a male regularly receiving post orgasm spankings, can you list the benefits you derive, perhaps from your wife’s perspective, your own perspective and the relationship overall.
I also would appreciate your view of them as the “nuclear option versus their use as the “go to “option for your wife. From earlier discussion on this blog, it seems like a substantial minority of men have experienced post orgasm spanking. But few experience it regularly. And it seems a majority may not have experienced it at all. So, your perspective on this is valuable.
Alan
Alan, it would take more space on Dan’s blog than is fair to explain everything fully. First, I think that most – not all, but most – men will concede that there’s often a sexual component to spanking. That is evidenced by, among other things, the fact that most of us reconcile intimately with our wives sometime after the spanking whether immediately or the next day or so. That is quite normal and extremely healthy for the relationship. However, that hope or anticipation, no matter how remote, helps many of us tolerate a really hard spanking.
DeleteOn the other hand, I never think about sex in the slightest when receiving a good, hard spanking immediately after intercourse. I’ve already been completely drained of every last drop. Yes, we reconcile afterwards, but it’s hugs and cuddling after I’ve performed cunnilingus to my wife’s content. From what I can tell, her orgasms after this are pretty intense.
Also, while I’ve not actually bawled, I have had real tears in my eyes and occasionally running down my cheeks. I’ve even starting teared up a bit when she is getting that last drop of cum out of me while she’s telling me what is going to happen next. There is no respite in between – I’m immediately over her lap and under the paddle. She also reminds me how bad the offense was, how much it disappointed her and how she expects me to cry. Understand that this is all in a gentle but firm tone of voice. I can never recall previously having tears in my eyes. We both realize that she could never spank me hard enough to bring on tears unless I’ve been drained.
I don’t want to create any impression that she is cruel in the slightest. She has never, and would never, hurt me at all. Spanking was my idea -- not hers.
I have a tough butt. Even after a really good caning with blood welts, I can almost always go to the gym the next day. Ice reduces any swelling, lotions work wonders and I can hide my butt a bit with towels and angles. That said, the bike seat definitely has a different feel, as you can imagine!
We made this our go-to disciplinary option this year for the reasons above – we both agree that this results in a true punishment that most sane people would not want to repeat often. I absolutely remember it when a similar situation arises in the future. It may not be a 100% cure all, but it definitely has a lasting impact.
As I mentioned before, my wife has now become more enthusiastic about my discipline. Previously, she always felt that there was a lot of my fantasy involved. That didn’t bother her much, but it made her feel that the discipline no matter how hard wasn’t quite real.
Two other points worth noting. We use spanking for other purposes recognizing it’s benefits for stress relief and, at times, as a warm-up for sex. So, using post-orgasm spankings for discipline is a substantial distinction.
Finally, there are some other factors in our relationship that make my disciplinary spankings fairly rare events. I don’t want to share those at this time. Hopefully, the paragraphs above are helpful.
Graham
Graham,
DeleteDo you have a particular desire to hide the marks? If so, why?
J.
Graham,
DeleteReading this, I understand why post-orgasm spanking has been adopted in your relationship. It has some powerful effects, as you describe it.
A question that remains, though, is why you have determined that sexuality should have no role in discipline spanking. I won’t go into the many arguments made to the end that sexuality can benefit discipline and obedience in many ways. But, clearly, many couples, probably a majority, incorporate sexuality and its associated eroticism into their DD relationship. And at least some believe eroticism can be positive, indeed maybe essential.
Speaking personally, I believe that sexuality is inherent in adult DD. Along with many, I will tell you I have experienced severe punishment even after initially presenting an erection before spanking. Sexuality motivates me to submit and obey her, but it doesn’t prevent her from punishing me. Instead, it provides enormous energy to the whole punishment dynamic.
So the question to you is: why do you feel it is necessary to spank post orgasm to impose punishment?
Alan
Alan, I agree 100% with you that spanking has a strong sexual component for many folks including us, though it’s worth noting that some participate on this site disagree. In addition, a post-orgasm spanking by its very nature has a sexual component. I.e., I have an orgasm before, and my wife has one after.
DeleteFor more details, this is the normal course of events. We discuss the offense in a calm and reasonable manner. My wife then instructs me to proceed upstairs and prepare. I then get what many would consider a fairly long, hard spanking well beyond when I’ve begun asking her to stop.
Once she thinks I’ve had enough, we usually make love which is very rewarding except for one critical step. After I cum, she continues to stimulate me long enough to ensure that I’m drained of cum and all sexual energy. That’s when I’m ordered back into position for the post-orgasm spanking. It’s usually shorter in duration than the original spanking, but it is no less severe and feels many times worse. It most often ends with a few dozen strokes of the cane.
Once she is finished, I almost always perform cunnilingus (which I love) until she climaxes. Under normal circumstances, it would be possible that I might get excited again. That is why we agreed that she should continue to stimulate me after my orgasm to ensure that I’m so empty that I couldn’t possibly get sexual excited again in the short-term.
So, as you can see, the scene is highly sexual. The main point is that the post-orgasm part of the session is incredibly hard to take. I’m 100% drained and focused. Unlike a regular spanking where I can at least hope for sexual relief afterward, there is no conscious or subconscious hope of an orgasm for me.
I don’t pretend this is for everyone, but I can assure you that once you’ve experienced this, you will TRULY think twice before committing the particular offense again.
My wife likes it because she knows that I’m submitting to her authority (in this regard) and taking a real spanking that in absolutely no way be mitigated thereafter with a nice orgasm for me.
Hope this elaboration helps. Graham
Graham
DeleteThanks for sharing. This is a highly creative approach to incorporating post-orgasm discipline. You haven’t persuaded me to ask my wife to try it, but I do see why you are enthusiastic about it. One thing the conversation brings out is one reason some women favor them. It is not, as it might appear, a method to up the severity but, instead, a way to administer an effective spanking without making it very long or hard. From a woman’s perspective, it can be won -win -and a win for her is always a win for you. Please keep us posted on how it continues to go.
Alan
Our FLR with DD household is nearing 14 years now and includes a maintenance program.
ReplyDeleteWe had the written agreement completed, along with a list of offenses prior to the actual start of our relationship. So there was a prescribed number of swats and the implement(s) in the early years of of DD household. I can't recall her ever stopping before reaching the prescribed number of strokes, however, several times she went over the number. A few times I mentioned it and she calmly said 'I know' and that was the end of it. We have never used a time limit or tears to end a punishment spanking. I do agree with many here that it ends when she feels it should end. Bruising does not work here as mine do not appear until several hours later or the next day. Very rarely have I bled and it was so slight, it did not stop her from completing the punishment. I usually don't go numb and my sign of surrender is when I'm nude and present my ass to accept the spanking I have earned. We have drifted away from the set number of strokes and spankings continue until she feels the punishment is effective. As I have stated here before, she will spank well beyond howling, tears, pleas or squirming, pause and ask if I have learned my lesson. I always state 'Yes Ma'am', she then says well, lets be sure and spanks me more. I have rarely left a spanking feeling it should have lasted longer.
We too did the prescribed number of swats in the beginning of our DD relationship, but it was always a prescribed *minimum". She was always free to give more.
DeleteYes, when she pauses to asks if I've learned a lesson, it's always such a loaded question, as it signals there is more to come, as she says something very much like "Well, let's be sure."
ReplyDeleteThere seems to me to be little point in a spanking that doesn’t take the spankee beyond where they feel they can go. That said, there is a difference - at least for us - between maintenance and punishment. Maintenance generally has a warm-up while punishment is full-on right from the start. There’s also of course a difference in how far beyond my limit it goes. I have never cried tears, I don’t think I’m capable of it, although I make plenty of noise. I agree with others that it stops when she decides it does. That being said, I also feel it’s often shorter than it should be. After taking me to the point where I completely lose control and then stopping, I sometimes think the right thing to do is to wait a minute for me to retain my composure and then start again, rather than terminating it at that point. It’s a while since we’ve done any post-orgasm spankings and I don’t really remember if it felt different at the end in terms of whether it felt enough or not. I guess I mark easily enough but it’s very rare that any marks are even visible the next day, I guess I seem to recover very quickly. Completely off topic, but GLM, you mentioned recently that you took your name from living in the area where The Good Life was set, I spent my teens in the area where it was filmed. TG
It's definitely possible that I too simply am not capable of crying from a spanking, though I really do hope that's not the case.
DeleteAE here. We don’t have a prescribed set of seats per offense, time associated or anything else that’s pre-set. We did try that out once or twice but neither of us felt it was effective - he knew the ending point and was too focused on that and at that point it was so new to both of us, I had underestimated the effectiveness of the number. Now, it’s purely measured by my intuition and how I’m feeling about it at the time. That can be determined by several things - do I feel like I’ve made my point, do I feel like he understands that point, do I feel satisfied by the severity in comparison to the offense. It’s very subjective, but it’s my perception of the offense - if it wasn’t at least somewhat subjective, at least one of us wouldn’t be having an authentic experience. The first time I left lasting marks, I did freak out a bit, but we talked through it and the next time it didn’t phase me. Now, typically only if there are multiple days in a row, there will be mild discoloration, but not to the point where I would call it a bruise.
ReplyDeleteAE, it's so true -- I don't know how a real DD dynamic could ever not entail a strong element of subjectivity. Honestly, that's one of the sources of the appeal for me. The fact that I'm not always able to predict what she will give a serious spanking for makes her authority feel more real. I've talked before about a time years ago when she spanked me for forgetting (multiple times) to clean a rice cooker. I saw it as a minor offense and, when she surprised me by ordering a spanking, I thought it would be mild. Not at all. What I recall about it--and I have a very distinct memory of this--is pulling up my pants when it was over, feeling very disturbed and disquieted, because it was maybe the first time I felt like she had all the power.
DeleteRegarding marking, as I've said, Anne gets a little freaked out by spotting, but from the very beginning she had zero problem with even very bad bruising. I thought it might upset her, but it has never bothered her at all. In fact, these days she gets disappointed when she does NOT see bruising, though after all these years it is very rare for me to show any real bruising. As you said, it's more like a fairly mild discoloration.
I believe in the old saying that the real spanking doesn't start until he cries. Now I understand that not all men cry, hence this isn't an one size fits all situation. This is specific to my husband who does cry and hence I use this as a way to measure where he is during the spanking.
ReplyDeleteI usually start with a firm hand spanking (Not the warm up kind) and it'll continue for several minutes by the end of which he is usually squirming a lot and starting to plead. There are days I've even gotten his eyes to water up with just my hand.
This is followed by a wooden spoon or a hairbrush which pushes things to the next stage. Barely a dozen spanks in, he'll start to beg and eventually the tears will begin as well. As far as I'm concerned, this is where the actual spanking starts for me. I lock his hand on his back, put him in a leg lock and REALLY start spanking then. It'll continue for several minutes and he is usually in a state of bawling by then. He is bigger than me and yet I'm strong enough to hold him in position despite all that squirming.
My hard limits are blood and no skin breaking. These have never happened even during some very harsh spankings. As such, I do not like switch or canes, I prefer a hairbrush or paddle. These do cause some blood spots but it's not exactly bleeding as someone mentioned.
When I finally stop, he has surrendered over my lap, his breath fast and sobs quietly. Just a simple pinch on his bottom will make him flinch.
I'm sure I'm not the only one thinking your husband is living the dream.
DeleteI'm curious though, does he think so?
And I'd like to ask a few questions more. If there were more women participating it would be a good question to suggest for the weekly post. Basically, how do you feel about it? Enjoy the authority, the intimacy? Resent having to do it? Find it a tedious chore? Would you prefer a hypothetical version of him / your marriage where you weren't an authority figure handing out spankings?
Thanks, SternWife. There's probably not a topic in DD that has intrigued me as much over the years as tears, yet they've proven completely elusive. It's not a matter of pain level or, I think, duration. Rather, my defense mechanisms against them are just too high. That's almost certainly about ego and fear of embarrassment, because I tear up at things like sappy songs and movies all the time.
DeleteDan- My husband didn't used to cry during the initial stages of our DD. I later realized he was holding it in because he was worried I would feel it is too much and stop everything. I ensured him that he can cry all he wants and I will only stop when I'm satisfied. Then he eventually began to let go and nowadays almost all discipline sessions end with him in tears.
DeleteJake- While we began, I saw all this mostly as a way to satisfy him. I didn't have any particular interest in it but I also wasn't averse to exploring things with him to keep him happy. But along the way, I shifted my perspective from satisfying him towards satisfying myself. That's when he really started to feel the reality of what he had asked for. I was no longer doing things the way he had fantasized, but the way I wanted to.
I enjoy our dynamic and I don't have any regrets. In fact, I don't think I can go back to us being in a vanilla dynamic either. I've started enjoying the kind of maternal authority I have over him and it's here to stay.
When I've brought up tears directly with Anne, I have detected some reticence there. I think she may worry more than I do about how she would react. I equate her likely reaction to tears to her actual reaction to bruising, i.e. even in the beginning when I would have major bruising from something like the fraternity paddle, she showed no sympathy whatsoever. And, she quickly got to a point where she was disappointed if there was little or no visible marking the next day. I suspect that if tears were to actually happen, her reaction would be similar - even if she got a little disconcerted the first time, she would quickly get past it.
DeleteWhen we've talked about tears, and their lack, in the past, multiple commenters have said that what got them past the impediments was their wives being very clear that they had no problem with it and even expected it. Anne has never come up out with that kind of direct, declarative expression of expecting it, let alone wanting it to happen. Would it lead to tears if she did? Honestly, I don't know. While I think concerns about her getting weirded out by it are in the mix somewhere, I think most of it is more about my own deep-seated issues with embarrassment. I think it's why, when I found the DWC, I was so perversely fascinated with stories that included a lot of tears. There was an attraction to it, but it was a very morbid kind of curiosity.
Hi Stern Wife. I'm impressed that you can make your husband squirm and get teary eyed with just your hand. Do you have a hard hand or are you unusually strong?
DeleteMy wife could not and uses her hand only after extensive use of her hairbrush and/or strap.It's always the final stage of a spanking and one she seems to particularly enjoy. How does she decide when it's time to stop? I can usually tell whether it will be a very severe one or not based on what she has said during the initial scolding. I do not "beg" but may suggest to her that I have learned my lesson. It doesn't really help however.
SternWife, again I see some similarities with our FLR's. She most always begins with a hand spanking and moves to other implements. I nearly always shed tears, but usually don't sob or wail. At the beginning she was the 'Domme' to please me, but now has graduated to a higher level of authority. She spanks when she feels it is necessary and spanking last until she is satisfied the goal is met. Increased time for repeat offenses is common. She will not cause harm and if my flesh can not physically take any more but she feels more is due, she may rest for an hour or in some cases tell me I will be spanked again on the next few consecutive days. Like you, I feel she is enjoying the Dominant role and we will never end our FLR with DD household.
DeleteThere was an interesting section in one of the three ebooks ('The Tea Party') shared a couple of weeks ago, on the subject of tears. I haven't read all of Ms. Wilder's books but that section caught my eye and I think it's worth reading for anyone interested in the subject who happened to download those files. Once again, the emphasis is on the scolding and length of the spanking.
DeleteJake: Yes, that one stand-alone chapter, "Ladies, here is how
DeleteI make my man cry every time I spank him," appears to be a very effective method for her "Bob". The combination of long, hard scolding, then followed by a +45 minute hard spanking, a spanking that seems like it "will NEVER end," seems to create a sense of hopelessness induced tears.
I like the way stern wife stated, I focused on satisfying myself as opposed to my husband. There have been times where I’ve attempted to talk or get out of a thrashing. My wife would say you requested this, now you’re getting it. Regardless of if I thought it was fair or not, I always stated I wouldn’t refuse to bend over. I’m blown away that you could make your husband cry with a hand spanking. I’ve yet to cry and it’s not because I can’t. Like Dan I get choked up and movies, weddings, and funerals.
DeleteI think it would have to be a big thing that I disappointed my wife with. I also think it would have to be the perfect scolding session. I also think it would have to be a the perfect storm so to speak. My wife could hand spank for hours and I wouldn’t cry. I also think my wife doesn’t necessarily want to see me balling like a baby. I think it goes back to her seeing me as her provider and protector. She has seen me cry, but I think regarding punishment it’s just different. I’ve seen some pretty hard spankings on spank tube. (I.e. 24/7). She blisters his bottom and he still stands up with an erection. I don’t feel they are truly DD. I’ve never had an erection after my wife has thrashed me. So perspective differs from one to another.
T
T.,
DeleteSame here regarding whether or not my wife actually wants to see my cry. As far as we are concerned, F/M DD is about refining me as a man, not making me less of one.
J.
J
DeleteThat statement was eloquently put. I agree
When we started DD my wife was relatively tentative in severity & duration. I admit that I gave her lots of feedback both verbally & when I started my journal. We (I) acquired a number of implements trying to find the best compromise between comfort for her and discomfort for me. I knew the effect & severity that I needed and looking back I feel that it was a really important journey that we went on. She had a fairly lightweight paddle that we bit ‘liked’. It was easy for her to use and it really stung to the point of wet eyes. But after much use it broke in action.I then bought the irish school strap which initially she felt was too severe but which not only is her go to implement but which hangs permanently on the wall near my side of the bed.
ReplyDeleteThe other game changer was the extra large old fashioned egg timer which sits on my bedside table. That has really helped with her sense of duration and although she will usually carry on with the strap long after the sand has run out, it is at least a guide which has meant spanking are much longer now.
If it has been a bad week she will often read each of our rules ( there are about twelve) and spank for a time against each one. They can be difficult sessions as the mini breaks mean that numbness is avoided.
When she just carries on with a solid no break session it is very painful for at least the first minute or so but then a certain level of numbing sets in. I have explained this to her as she noticed a reduction in my reaction but I have also explained that carrying on was past the numbing phase means that I will often feel the effects for much longer, usually several days which I assume is deep bruising. If she wants to make a special point that is when the spanking continues to, leaving me tired, beaten and super submissive for several days. TB
"When we started DD my wife was relatively tentative in severity & duration. I admit that I gave her lots of feedback both verbally & when I started my journal." Which makes perfect sense and illustrates why I hate the whole concept of "topping from the bottom" as applied to DD.
DeleteYour point about numbness illustrates why "surrender" seems like a really unreliable indicator the a lesson has been learned/taught, because I too simply stop reacting at some point because numbness has set in and it's not hurting nearly as much anymore. From a wife's perspective, that could look like surrender, though it's not.
Thinking of your question on when a DD spanking stop, my first thoughts are of fear in anticipating it, in the middle of it, wishing it would end, and after it is over, wishing it had been longer. I know others have expressed similar feelings. It reminds me of the old AA adage one is too many and a thousand not enough. I'm not being trite, I really don't want a spanking to start, but once it is happening I don't want it to end.
ReplyDeleteI asked Domino how she knew when the spanking had gone on long enough. She said it varies, but mainly when she feels her anger gone, then I have probably suffered enough.
Domino's perspective probably fits how many wives judge "enough" in real life.
DeleteI usually don't want a spanking to start, though it depends on what else is going on. If she is lecturing but without much real feeling, I do get to a point where I'm thinking, "Can't we just get on with it?" Once it starts, there is never a point where I don't want it to end, though after it is over I often wish it had gone on longer. For that reason, whatever a wife chooses as an "end-point," it wouldn't be helpful for my wife to consider my views on the matter at the time it is happening.
Dev knows my limits. She gave a paddling last week that was 9.0 on my scale. We’ve never gotten to a 10. When she finished , she lets me rest for a few seconds then adds another minute or so to make sure the lesson is learned. JR
ReplyDeleteMy wife has started doing that pause, then a final volley, thing.
DeleteDamn, Domino does that sometimes. She uses a small hard plastic paddle with nubs on it and I hate it. There is no time to recover between swats. Since my usual position is bent over the bed or the table, when she does that, I almost end up on the floor. Especially if she lands some of the swats on my balls.
DeleteLet me start by saying my / our intent in commenting is to share some of our thoughts as seniors who have had a 50 year DD, We still have a fairly active sexual relationship, we are both in ok health. As I mentioned earlier I have drawn a distinct line between love making and Domestic Discipline. It is understood that I decide when a spanking or other punishment is over. While he has attempted to manipulate the sessions a few times with pleas saying he has learned his lesson and could not take any more , long ago I made it clear through actions that i decide when i think I have made my point. Some have suggested that the wives may enjoy the punishment. There have been many occasions where I did feel a release of frustration. I didn’t feel it a turn on sexually,. There have been times when i felt he was parading his bruises and welts a day or two after. The most serious punishments have in fact been after denying an offense that was later acknowledged. These occasions were followed by by mouth soaping for telling lies and the razor strop.He has told me it is frustrating that he can’t cry.
DeleteMiss C, my wife's approach is very different from yours though not in all ways. Yes, she decides when the spanking will end. When she's quite displeased with me, that will not happen until long after I think it should have stopped. But she does not dissociate it from sex like you do. She admits that she enjoys giving a deserved spanking, and may even be aroused by it. But more important, she thinks of it as a way to keep a very loving marriage on the right track, eliminating behaviors that cause discord. When the punishment is over, she is happy to soothe me and perhaps make love.
DeleteIf I am being punished for specific disciplinary issues, it will usually continue until my wife decide I have been given a suitable recompense for whatever it is she is spanking me for. Sometimes, she said she was stopping because my buttocks were starting to bleed and I encouraged her to continue until she was intending to stop, without reference to what was going on with my buttocks, which she did. I admit sex that evening felt different, and at work, there is a communal showers area and I think some colleagues noticed my buttocks!
ReplyDeleteHowever, my spankings tend to be daily, meaning my wife doesn't always have a specific disciplinary reason. When this happens, I tend to receive base-level maintenance spankings, which "prime" me for the sex that follows. On occasions, I have asked my wife to continue maintenance spankings beyond what she was intending, which I am definitely glad I did: one such evening was memorably wild and (I believe) one of our children was conceived during it.
Save for these exceptions though, I don't really "top from the bottom": I just encourage my wife to give me what she believes is a reasonable recompense for whatever the spanking be for.
J.
I’ve enjoyed reading your explanations about post orgasm spanking Graham. Whenever you feel comfortable sharing the other factors in your relationship I’d be curious to know. My husband and I have tried post orgasm spanking (accidentally) once, and while it did seem to make more of an impact, I think there may have been too much time between as you all discussed above. I’ve often wanted to push my husband to the point where he cries, and once he did actually reach this point (though it happened after the spanking), but I struggle knowing just how hard or far to go. He was abused as a child, sometimes with intense beatings where he would bleed so one of my biggest fears is triggering these memories or causing him to bleed. Unfortunately, I recently used a wooden spatula which had cracked and cut him. Though it was hardly any blood it hurt both he and I. While I love the idea of marking him and deep bruising, the blood terrifies me because I know what it does for him. In addition, because of his past he reacts to pain differently, such as laughing or blocking everything out all together, so I feel as if I am still trying to balance how best to push him, while still showing him he is safe and can trust me not to truly hurt him (in the ways he experienced when he was younger). As for tears, SternWife, I admire how you are able to make your husband cry each time. I find hope in that he originally did not let go on that level and now he does. While in spanking, we have yet to reach that point (barring the one time mentioned above) the times I am truly disappointed and upset with him, he will tear up. I’ve just never made the move to punish him right after as I generally wait until I feel less ‘emotional’ and not spanking out of anger. I’ve seen this as a topic discussed here before, so Im curious how you all would interpret this. Growing up in a household that spanked I was taught you never punish out of anger, in addition, the past trauma my husband endured makes me hesitant to ever discipline him and ‘take my anger out’ on his butt. We have recently taken our dynamic to the next level and we have been discussing and tweaking various techniques and advice I see here on the blog, seeing what works best for us. As of this past weekend I have begun telling him that when I see him truly ‘let go’ and surrender to me then I will know he has learned his lesson. He ended up being disciplined twice Sunday (our first time doing consecutive spankings) and while both spankings were intense, he seemed to be more present and I could feel when he surrendered.
ReplyDeleteBtw, I love that third photo you used Dan.
Hi Miss E. I'm glad you like that one, It's always been one of my favorites.
DeleteIf there are big concerns about accidental bleeding, I'd stay away from wood and rubber instruments. Perhaps a good quality leather strap instead.
I don't personally have concerns about spanking in anger and sometimes wish she would spank more often immediately after something has pissed her off. But, I also don't have your husband's history of abuse, which might call for a calmer approach.
More often, it's really my anger that calls for a delay. We got into an argument last week that left us both very angry. Had she decided to spank in that moment, I would have given in, but it wouldn't have caused the slightest contrition. Quite the opposite. But, a few days later, I would have calmed down enough to absorb a lesson in showing more verbal restraint even when angry.
Miss E,
DeleteFor me the question would be how you handle your anger. I know people that lose control when they are angry and I would never submit to a person in the state. Domino gets angry, but her anger is controlled. Spanking in that type of anger is ok in my opinion.
In the old days Domino. Would stuff her anger down. This caused resentment. Now she spanks me in anger, but her anger is controlled. It is better for both of us to get it out. Like I said in an earlier post, She knows the spanking is over when she is no longer angry. Makes life nicer when no one is holding any suppressed anger.
I have been spanked when we were both angry, when she decided that I had crossed the like in a heated discussion and insisted that I get upstairs and into position. I was angry then, angry when she strapped me hard and angry when she finished. But unusually my anger dissipated within the hour and I humbly apologised, agreeing that she had made the right decision. TB
DeleteI never really viewed it as being ok to spank in anger if you are someone who has control of it. As I am someone who gets very quiet and ‘unemotional’ when angry, perhaps I will try this one day and see how it sits with him. Do you have any other suggestions Dan for implements other than those listed that would lessen the risk of bleeding? Belts, canes, and leather straps are out of the question…
DeleteCurrently I alternate between my hand and my wooden hairbrush
Unfortunately, belts and straps seem to me to be the lowest risk, and virtually all wooden instruments are going to carry some risk. Though, I think heavier, wider paddles with a smooth finish and no holes (a basic "fraternity" style paddle) are unlikely to cause bleeding but can't be used OTK. It also may reduce bleeding risk to leave underwear or pants on, but I'm usually not a big fan of that from a safety perspective, as the wife can't see the condition of his butt as the spanking is being delivered.
Delete
DeleteDear Miss E, I’m so sorry that your husband experienced abuse as a child. Not only do those issues carry over to adulthood, but it must make the integration of DD into your lives more difficult for both of you. Like most of the commentators here, I suffered no such misfortune.
I just added some more detailed explanation in response to Alan above, but it is not directly responsive to your request. If you’re further interested contact me at wgm0314@gmail.com. Don’t worry, I won’t pester you after answering your questions. I’m simply not comfortable saying certain things on this site.
Like you, I really loved that 3rd photo!
Regards, Graham
Miss E, I am glad you want to avoid bleeding. I think it is completely undesirable in domestic discipline. Like you, my wife uses a hairbrush and her hand, but also a short leather strap that can be used when I am over her knee. Why do you rule out a leather strap? It stings in a somewhat different way than a hairbrush, but will not cause bleeding or bruising.
DeleteMiss E:
DeleteRegarding your question on spanking implements that are more intense than your current "hairbrush," but also less likely to cause "skin failure" with resultant possibility of "wet blistering" or "bleeding," I think you should consider something very similar to your hairbrush, but with more weight and leverage: A "short handled bath brush".
The "heads" of such brushes are smaller than paddles, allowing a wife to more carefully control the point of impact, and move that impact point to other locations if initial evidence of possible skin failure appears. Such brushes are typically somewhat thicker (~7/16 - 3/8") than hairbrushes, and have slightly longer handles (6-8"), providing more "weight" and "leverage" for higher intensity without loosing overall control and accuracy. Being short-handled, it is very easy to use such brushes OTK (as well as standing beside a man with him bent-over the side of a bed or couch).
The two brushes that first come to my mind are readily available on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/Redecker-Short-Natural-Bristles-Inches/dp/B00FG07OTO/
. . . or same length, but with much smaller head (for very precise control), . . .
www.amazon.com/Redecker-Natural-Childrens-Beechwood-8-Inches/dp/B0037EVNUC/
(If you want to go with either of these, I suggest you set your husband to work preparing these implements: (1) Carefully sand the edge of the head to a ~3/16" radius to minimize "skin shear" (and chance of tearing); then, (2) Sand the entire head with 600/1000/1500 Wet/Dry sandpaper to minimize any minor "skin sticking/pulling" during impact; finally, (3) Lubricate that head with either "silicone" or "PTFE" [Teflon(R)] dry lubricant. My wife has always felt it best for men to create their own "weapons of ass destruction;" she says it "focuses the mind," and all that!)
If you decide to try either of these brushes, with or without "improvements," please let us all know the results of your "experiments."
TYPO CORRECTION:
Delete". . . Such [bath] brushes are typically somewhat thicker (~9/16 - 5/8") than hairbrushes (7/16-1/2") . . ."
I would recommend trying all sorts of instruments, but I'll have to disagree with Donn on whether a bath brush is likely to cause some bleeding. It's my wife's go-to instrument, and as I said in the post, most of our spankings end because of some amount of "spotting." And, I'm not sure that using something to change the finish would help. Our first bath brush was from the Body Shop, and it definitely did have a rougher surface that probably caused some of the abrading. But, the version Anne bought for herself is very smooth. It's possible that applying some kind of silicone layer on top might reduce the abrading even further, but I think some amount of spotting is likely with any very hard instrument, that is relatively heavy and has a relatively small contact area. As I said, I'm for giving anything a try, but I still think leather holds by far the most promise for delivering a substantial sting or swat while minimizing any risk of spotting.
DeleteI add my vote to leather strap--it is as punishing as anything excepting a bath brush, and for us, leaves only bruises and not always those.
DeleteAlan
Dan: My general experience is that "paddles" and "bath brushes" are generally much smoother than any kind of leather (or polymer) strap. There is also the factor that "hard objects" like paddles are generally not drawn/dragged across the skin, while using "software" straps often involves a serious "follow-through" of the arm motion and strap, dragging that strap over and off the edge of the target.
DeleteThen again, we may be talking about two different types of bleeding. "Miss E" was not clear if she was observing "skin tearing" or "blisters that bleed" or rather what is sometimes called "pinpoint bleeds" where blood is "forced through the skin during impact," but does not continue to bleed after impact.
Regardless, I think we can all agree that "rounded edges" and "smooth/slick surfaces" are good ideas on BOTH hard and soft impact implements.
"Regardless, I think we can all agree that "rounded edges" and "smooth/slick surfaces" are good ideas on BOTH hard and soft impact implements."
DeleteIn answering Miss E's questions, I agree. For me personally, I don't mind the prospect of some (minor) abrading, because in fulfilling the threat of a "spanking you're going to be feeling every time you sit down this week," I think that kind of skin irritation is part of it. So, I'm trying to get Anne not to care as much about the condition of my bottom as she's doing the spanking, instead of trying to find ways to to keep there from being any visible damage.
This is why my wife primarily sticks to leather straps and leather paddles. We do have a wood paddle and a hairbrush that she uses as well. The wood paddle can cause spotting after awhile. I think she has gotten a bit squeamish at times at the beginning. The leather packs a punch, gets the point across but has never broken skin. It does leave some marks for days.
DeleteT
Miss E.
DeleteI’m really sorry as well to hear about your husband’s abuse when younger. I think erring on the side of caution is wise. I was spanked growing up and although not abused at home; I felt the school and church setting was wrought with abuse. I still harbor resentment to this day surrounding some of the conditions I was placed in. I’m actually surprised your husband would even consider DD after what he went through. I recently connected with a child hood friend who I went to school with. His parents were beyond strict and punished severely. After some libations one night, we went down memory lane. I broached the subject about the paddling at school and home. He stated how disgusted he was by his upbringing and how he would never think of punishing his kids the way he was raised. He felt clearly abused and said his Mother broke a few paddles on his bare bottom. It got pretty heavy for a few minutes. It was almost to the point like his wife goes no where near his bottom. I felt bad for how it affected him. I look back at some of the other kids and wonder how they feel as well. I remember a Mother carrying around a wooden spoon at church in her purse. She was quick to pull it out on her kids.
Hopefully, the trust built between you two will outweigh his childhood abuse. I must admit if it was me, I wouldn’t be in a DD relationship.
T
Thank you for all the great tips and suggestions. With this week’s check in I’m probably going to let him read this post and see how he feels with trying new implements or risking spotting etc.
DeleteAs of yet, the only time there was a spot of blood was from the wooden spatula catching his skin and leaving a small cut. I took a look at the bath brushes you sent Donn, my wooden hairbrush is very similar in weight/size. The problem is I feel I can only push him so far with the hair brush or my hand, but for him, the worst of his abuse happened with a belt, so though the leather itself might not cause him to bleed, the familiar sting is a trigger point for him. Ive been considering using the concept of consecutiveness instead to convey seriousness. For instance, using only my hand or hairbrush but then building on it with multiple spankings either in the same day or consecutive days (at least for the more serious offenses).
As you stated T, trust me, I greatly appreciate and admire my husband’s strength to have and want a dd after his childhood. I hold it more as a testament to his trust in me. I’m not sure I would be strong enough to do the same. But we constantly discuss our dynamic and have open dialogue regarding its emotional impacts and he assures me he wants it too.
I too used to think that tears were an indicator of complete breakdown of resistance, full submission and an end goal. But I no longer feel that way for a number of reasons. The first is that as a child it is relatively easy to cry, to let the tears go. As an adult (male) it is much, much harder for whatever and many reasons. I do not believe that because I don’t cry when spanked, that the punishment does not hurt as much as it did when I was a child. Today’s punishments hurt more and last a good deal longer. And I go into them as a consenting adult not as a. controlled child. The second reason is that as a child it was all about the pain of the spanking; as an adult there is lots more going on - humiliation, my investment in the relationship, an exchange or rebalancing of power, a sexual undercurrent and more. I have ‘asked’ for this and I voluntarily accept it. Thirdly, my wife does not want to see tears or complete, abject submission - she wants remorse, recognition of poor behaviour and for me to be punished, physically and emotionally. We are in a relationship of equals, she just happens to be more equal than me! TB
ReplyDelete"I too used to think that tears were an indicator of complete breakdown of resistance, full submission and an end goal."
DeleteI think there is a huge difference between saying something is "an" indicator and saying it is "the" indicator. Tears clearly are "an" indicator of dropping resistance, surrendering, etc. They just aren't "the," as in "the only" indicator of submission, surrender, etc. There are lots of indicators for surrender, etc. Tears are one, but there others. Some get to tears relatively easily; some of us not so much. And, I do believe in my individual case the lack of tears *is* an indication of a lack of full surrender. I don't think that is necessarily the case for others who can't/don't cry, but I think it is for me.
"The second reason is that as a child it was all about the pain of the spanking . . ." Was it really? I think there is an inconsistency in your argument. You're saying it was all about the pain back then, but that the pain is way, way more intense now. I think you are also underestimating how much emotional stuff was going on in the garden variety childhood spanking. For many kids, the spankings themselves were a limited number of hand swats -- the physical pain was barely even a factor. It was ALL about being subject to someone else's authority, in school being taken into a hall or to the principal's office, the embarrassment of coming back from that . . . I would say the tears were WAY more the result of the whole ambiance than about the pain back then.
I was never spanked at home as a child but I was at the receiving end of corporal punishment on a frequent basis at school at the hands of the Christian Brothers. It was a daily and very public event for myself and my peers and so it became normalised. My comments above are from my own personal experience in that it got to the stage where it was the pain (albeit short lived) of the punishment rather than any emotions that was key. Part of my ‘attachment’ to the strap is the highly symbolic nature and the many, many memories of its use. We were ‘trained’ not to cry and so whilst I can well up at a sad movie or song and openly cry at a funeral I do not believe that I am able to cry from a spanking. TB
DeleteLike Dan, I have never been spanked to tears. And although I have been spanked very hard with some serious implements by my wife (bath brush, wooden paddle, heavy rubber "Truro Terror" paddle), it never seems quite enough shortly after she's done.
ReplyDeleteI often start egging her on to give me more not very long after or for a repeat performance to ensure "I really learn my lesson" the next day. She never takes me up on these suggestions. I think part of it is me always wanting her to push my limits, and part of it is my wife not having the stamina or enthusiasm to It is something I am trying to get beyond and just be thankful for any discipline she is willing to give me -- especially when we both know I deserve it. Tom