Hello all. Welcome back to the Disciplinary Couples
Club. Our weekly meeting of men and
women who are in, or interested in being in, Domestic Discipline and/or Female
Led (FLR) relationships.
Once again, before we get started, I would like to thank the female commenters who have recently joined us and to extend a specific invitation to all others who may be inclined to move from “lurker” to “commenter” status. We like having you around.
I hope you all had a great week. Ours was about as hectic as it could get. Anne is convalescing from the procedure I alluded to last week, and it’s going to be a multi-week—multi-month, really—grind. We spent this week trying to get settled into some semblance of a routine. I do think we have it a little more under control than I worried might be the case at this point in the process.
It's a tough time of year to be confined to our house. We had “grounding” as a topic a few weeks ago, and I now have a good sense of what it probably would feel like as an adult. It’s going to get harder. Where we live, from year to year September can feel like either an extension of summer, or a prelude to autumn.
Until last week, summer was hanging in strong and, since it’s not my favorite season, I didn’t feel like I was missing that much being cooped up in a hospital room and then in our house. But, yesterday we got a change in the weather that felt decidedly like autumn is coming. As our long-term visitors here know, autumn is by far my favorite season, culminating with Halloween. It's going to be rough being indoors for a lot of the season. But, such is life.
I thought we had a great discussion last week. Thanks to all of you who shared your origin story. If there is one big takeaway from the discussion, to me it is “nothing ventured, nothing gained.” Most of the relationships began with a man finding the courage to overcome his embarrassment and talk to his wife honestly about his Domestic Discipline needs, and a wife who was open enough to give it a try even if they didn’t fully understand the “why” part. Like many of the men, whatever regret I have about bringing DD to Anne's attention is the one I hoped to have from the very beginning, namely that she would take it up with determination and make me experience some of the natural regret that comes with being subject to someone's hard discipline.
My only regret about my own origin story is that it didn’t happen earlier in our marriage, though I don’t know whether either of us would have been open to it. Things happen when they happen. For me, the challenge is making sure I am open to growing it in different directions, knowing that I may not know when and how such opportunities will arise. I hope I’m more open to having an unconventional life in the second half of my life than I was in the first, regardless of who knows about it or what they may think.
Unfortunately, things have been so hectic this week, I haven’t had time to think about an actual topic. If something pops into my head, I might post later in the week. But, in the meantime, let’s do a couple of things.
First. if you haven’t had a chance to talk about your own origins story, let’s please keep that conversation going. Go ahead and do it as a comment on this post, so people don’t have to navigate back to last week’s.
Second, since I’m once again not doing so well at generating new ideas, please give me suggestions for topics you might want to talk about.
Have a great week.
I'm curious whether wives have a set method of punishment or vary it depending on the offense, or just their mood. I have had impromptu spankings where the scolding, punishment, and after-spanking warnings were all over in less than 15 minutes, and of course mostly much longer ones. Almost all are over the knee with a hairbrush, but my wife will add on a switching if a switch is available. I have occasionally had my face slapped for being too slow to cooperate or for responding disrespectfully to an order to get ready. I have not seen anyone mention that occurring but would be surprised if it doesn't happen. And finally I wonder whether wives spank in the merciless way that Aunt Kay preached. Mine does not. I am sore for another day or two but certainly not for a week.
ReplyDeleteYou seem to have really latched onto this idea that the spankings on the DWC site are "merciless." I certainly don't see it that way. In terms of duration, most of those depicted seem to be either consistent with what I receive or maybe slight less (though, many of the stories don't specify). In terms of severity, it's difficult to judge but I can infer much from the instrument being used. I would say that even the hardest hairbrush spanking pales in comparison to the bath brush, which is Anne's go-to instrument. As for the "sore for a week," I'd say for me it's more typically a couple of days, but it's not uncommon for there to be some deep soreness that I'll feel several days later. And, when we were first starting, even a spanking I would now describe as typical would leave me very bruised and sore. There also wasn't a lot of face slapping going on in the DWC, which honestly seems to me to be a lot more Femdom-ish and less "merciful" than 99% of the content on the DWC.
DeleteTom wrote: “I have occasionally had my face slapped for being too slow to cooperate or for responding disrespectfully to an order to get ready.”
DeleteI don’t know how common having your face slapped is, but both women who have disciplined me occasionally used it in circumstances similar to those described by Tom. The first time was with my former G.F., who thought I was being defiant about submitting to a spanking. (challenging her authority) That was spontaneous with her and surprised her as much as it did me. She actually apologized but then said I had deserved it.
The effect on me was instant cooperation and obedience. When it happens, it still puts me in a zone that feels like being on automatic pilot. All of the resistance leaves me. All that said, the times I have had my face slapped in almost 30 years of DD is undoubtedly less than ten or so. It is infrequent but also very effective. I would be surprised if more women in established DD didn’t use it once in a while.
Alan
No Dan, not ""the spankings on the DWC site" but rather the kind of spanking precisely recommended by Aunt Kay herself.
DeleteWhether it's the stories or Aunt Kay's descriptions in the Tips & Methods, no, I don't see anything "merciless" or over the top about them. If anything, the OTK position coupled with the hairbrush would lead me to put them in the likely "moderate" category. In fact, if you're doing "mostly much longer" than 15 minutes, sounds like yours are longer than most of what Aunt Kay and the DWC describes. I don't time them, but a long one for me would probably be 5 or 6 minutes, and those depicted in the DWC videos were usually shorter than that.
DeleteAlan, the effect of a slap certainly is what you describe. You immediately cease any hint of defiance and do as ordered. In my experience, the slaps have been delivered in a very calm and deliberate way, and I realize I have made a serious error of judgment.
DeleteMy wife uses an oversized egg timer (3 mins) and her go to implement is the London Tanner Irish school strap. She will often start and then remember to up end the timer. Equally she will often ‘forget’ to check that the timer has finished or flip it over for another 3 mins.
DeleteI am over the end of the bed and every beating is preceded by a clear explanation of why ‘this is happening’. Three to six mins may not sound long but that strap is quite severe and I would guess it lands on average every two seconds meaning somewhere between 90 - 180 strokes. I can often feel the effects for several days. I would not use the word ‘merciless’ but these are memorable punishments which do, generally keep me in check for a week or so. TB
Your count confirms my own estimates of the number of strokes Anne typically employs. It's seldom less than 200 and probably approaches 300. I say "probably" because for some reason, even when I try to count, I never, ever manage to count to the end. Your count helps confirm my estimate because ours probably go around 5 minutes, compared to your three. For me, there would be little point in her going much longer, as I am usually starting to get numb. Though, as I believe ZM pointed out, the longer spankings may result in longer soreness, so if the goal is "you won't be able to sit for a week," a longer spanking on a numb butt might actually have a purpose.
DeleteMy Mistress and I have been at this for about two years. We have been married for over thirty as I mentioned in my origin story. The implements have grown inn number and there are over a dozen now. She almost always punishes me with me naked and bent over the edge of the bed. There is a chiffarobe across the room that has a mirror on it so I am able to see her pretty well. She is pretty rapid fire and starts with a pickle ball paddle which is very stingy and 50 to 100 strokes warm things up very well. By the 10th stoke I am usually yelping with each one. Often after that she uses a bath brush for 30-50 hard strokes and then either a small but very thuddy bloodwood paddle with holes in it that actually has all of the rules digitally engraved on it. Many times after 30 or so with that she will use the French Martinet by London Tanners and then return to one of the others and usually finishing with 30-50 with the Pickle ball paddle. Yes by this time I am usually numb and have reached the “Surrender” talked about by Aunt Kay and JC Cole on Medium. The thing is though and this is important for me to get the fear “And OMG this is terrible and there is nothing I can do about it” effect…I don’t ever know what is coming next or when it will end. It is usually over in 5-7 minutes I would guess but have never timed a session.
Delete"The thing is though and this is important for me to get the fear “And OMG this is terrible and there is nothing I can do about it” effect…I don’t ever know what is coming next or when it will end."
DeleteI agree completely. For me, knowing precisely how much I was in for would be counterproductive.
Dan, the fifteen minutes number includes the scolding and preparation before, the spanking, the admonishments afterwards (and perhaps some comforting). A longer spanking would include more minutes of each of those elements.
ReplyDeleteMy wife is far from merciless although I know that she thinks she is. I told her the other day that I don't think she has ever spanked me to 100% submission. That confused and frustrated her. I want to be spanked to the point that I just give up and give myself completely to her authority. We have come close a handful of times yet I always feel she could have continued until I was so far over the edge that I gave her full control. However, I am find that her being more consistent is producing more submission in myself. We have a rule that if she senses a lack of submission or any disrespect that I will have 20 minutes of corner time every day until she sees a change. After almost a week of daily time in the corner thinking about being submissive and respectful I was finally let out of having to do it yesterday. Maybe because the day before I had gotten both corner time and a severe spanking for back talking. My bottom was still sore and no way was I going to get another spanking so I was really well behaved and respectful. We even went out with friends last night and I followed her directions to maintain my good behavior. She was so proud of me when we got home she said I I didn't have to do the corner time last night. That means I'm off the hook until she sees some lake of submission or disrespect. Then it will be reinstated.
ReplyDeleteWard, I could have written a lot of this myself about the course of our DD relationship. Anne is clearly very ambivalent about what I call "surrender," as shown especially by tears. I think part of her is concerned about how she will react if I ever do cry, yet I think there is a hit to her disciplinary ego in never having brought it about. I don't know whether I will ever get there, but I'm pretty confident that if so it isn't going to be because a single session was especially long or hard.
DeleteSimilarly, I've come to believe that consistency and certainty of being punished are by far the most important factors in bringing about a real attitudinal change in me. It's funny, but I went back and read some of my earliest posts on this blog, and virtually from the very beginning I identified lack of consistency as the primary thing that was missing, and 20+ years later it's the same complaint. Any positive change in that direction makes such a difference. Earlier this year, we had a short phase in which she was getting much more consistent, with spanking clearly "top of mind" for her in a way it really wasn't in the past. It really did make me way more cautious about my behavior in certain areas.
I read through the DWC hundred of times over the years. I agree that I do not see anything “merciless” about the punishments given. What might work for one couple, might not work for another. I do not receive as many thrashings as some here do. I’ve learned rather quickly to toe the line or else. I do deserve more than I receive. My wife has taken a lot of the type A, stubborn, impatient, insensitiveness out of me. She thrashes me hard enough to get her point across, but not so severe as a week later I’m still hurting. She had a minor procedure done and DD was on the back burner for about a month. Last night, i was irritable about a few things and she said without skipping a beat, “i know a good thrashing will get you out of your mood”. You are quickly surprised how hard it hurts after not being on the receiving end in sometime. Ward, I felt like you in then beginning with being thrashed to “giving in”. I noticed overtime there seemed to be too much pressure being placed on our defined roles. As we refocused our efforts, I read a lot less into other people’s DD ie DWC and focused on how well ours was going. The thrashing put me in a better mood and I’m sitting tenderly today. My wife is on the mend which is great news. As far as face slapping goes. My wife has used it maybe two or three times in our relationship. I made an insensitive remark to my wife. I had agreed to be face slapped when need be. I feel it’s the most degrading thing to a man and for me took me down a 100 pegs. I was then paddled to the point where I could of had tears if it had gone on longer. It was the only time I remember feeling truly like dirt. I apologized profusely. This was early on in our relationship. She has not used it much since then, but I agree that it is a game changer when used in the proper context. We haven’t used corner time as much, but I know when she is mad. After a thrashing she has used, “get out of my sight”. To me that hurts more than corner time.
ReplyDeleteT
"You are quickly surprised how hard it hurts after not being on the receiving end in sometime."
DeleteOnce Anne is further along in her convalescence from her recent procedure and the next spanking inevitably happens, I know it is going to be off-the-charts painful, because this will be the longest we've gone without one, and gaps of even a month or two hurt like hell.
Sounds like we have a developing topic around "face slapping"!
I totally get how the "get out of my sight" comment could be very hurtful, though also very effective. See my response to Norton, below, regarding my reactions to a very stinging lecture.
DeleteMy wife has slapped and will swat my arm, legs or bottom if she is irritated with something I do or say. It’s never been in the face. I’m not sure what effect that would have on me. It’s not playful, but it’s not hard either. It sort of a warning that says, “Get it together or we’re going upstairs(my punishments almost always take place over the bed upstairs). She also has very scary non verbal, facial expressions that tell me I’m not behaving to her liking and a also a stingy little pinch that says, “You’re talking to much or being inappropriate.”
DeleteAs far as what she gets out of it…She has always been a tough, smart, strong woman in relations to business, friends and family. She is assertive without being aggressive and always stands up for herself, but I do believe I have noticed a general increase in confidence and self esteem…especially confidence in dealing with me. She will get my input on what I want to do for the evening, what we eat, watch on TV, where we go and if it will be alone or with friends, and before DD we usually did what I suggested, but now there is an obvious consideration to what I want and then She makes the decision. I really appreciate and like this aspect of our FLR with DD relationship, and I think she has obviously benefited as well. And, obviously she gets a much more well behaved husband in between disciplinary sessions.
Dan said: “Sounds like we have a developing topic around "face slapping"!
DeleteI would welcome some sharing of experiences and attitudes about this. Most of the online material I have seen has been fem-dom stuff featuring men who fantasized about it or videos of face-slapping “scenes.” That is not the experience I have had.
It is certainly not a fantasy for me, and it has been rare. But its effect in the context of impending discipline is stunning, both when it happens and in reflection. It shuts down any defiance or resistance to what is happening and makes me want to do whatever she wants. I have thought about why that is so.
I don’t have a complete answer. But it has something to do with a powerful exercise of her authority -as in, “I am very serious about this, and you DO NOT want to disobey me. “ It both establishes her as completely in control and, simultaneously, makes me want her to be in control. Maybe some others will contribute their experiences here. The topic deserves some discussion -pros, and cons.
Alan
Alan,
DeleteI don’t particularly care for the Femdom scenes online. I think most are a joke and as far as face slapping goes, I don’t like what I have seen out there. My wife has used it about three times and its certainly got my attention. It demasculated me immediately and I knew I was in big trouble. I felt embarrassment, remorse, and guilt. This was before the severe strapping I was about to receive. My wife has had a few moments that between the scolding and strapping has significantly put me in my place.That was one of those times. I became a puddle of mush so to speak in her hands. The slap was hard enough to get my attention. I actually felt a bit of anger and immediate remorse, because I realized what I said was hurtful. It was the perfect time for her to utilize it. I was surprised, it caught me off guard. I would not want it used along with my thrashings. I think it should be utilized as a tool but for us I have never made an insensitive comment like that again. That strapping was also one of the hardest I’ve had from her. She was upset and took it out on my bottom.
T
T,
DeleteThere does seem to be a pattern of it being used infrequently, but when it is used, having a daunting effect. It would be interesting to know if women who use it plan in advance to do so --- or do it spontaneously in the moment. The latter has been my experience, although my wife now knows its force and has used it strategically several times.
If it was used often, I think its effect would diminish. Part of its impact on me is that it is surprising when it happens, underscoring its seriousness. There is also something deeply psychological about being face-slapped leading up to discipline. However, I don’t’ feel demasculinized by it as much as being firmly put under control. There are things she could do to humble me that way, but face-slapping doesn’t elicit feelings of humiliation.
Alan
Anne hasn't used it and, as I said to Tom, I usually do think of it as Femdom-ish. But, Alan and T, used in the way you describe, I can see how it would be both effective and daunting in reinforcing just how unacceptable or serious certain conduct was.
DeleteRegarding how prevalent it is, I have no idea but I did do a quick search in my pretty extensive collection of spanking art and memes. I suspected there wouldn't be many examples involving face slapping, but the number turned out to be zero. Though, my ability to cull down to a particular example depends on both (a) whether/how I tagged it, and (b) whether it includes pertinent searchable text, such as in this case teh word "slap."
Dan wrote “I did do a quick search in my pretty extensive collection of spanking art and memes. I suspected there wouldn't be many examples involving face slapping, but the number turned out to be zero.”
DeleteThis is interesting –as in: “hmmm, that’s interesting! Now, what does it mean”?
Given that some proportion of women use it as part of discipline ( and I have also seen it happen in ( apparently) non-disciplinary contexts: why is it absent from visuals?
It may be because having one's face slapped isn’t a popular or prevalent fantasy among spankos. If you have not experienced it, then it probably isn’t part of any DD ideal for you -and if you have experienced it, both the experience and the memory are a little bit too real and not erotic. It is embarrassing to remember and frankly a little scary because she is telling me I have pushed her to a point neither of us wants to go beyond.
So, maybe you find no pictures depicting face slaps because few want to look at them.
Alan
I definitely think it's the case that you can't equate the volumes of specific themes in spanking art to how prevalent they are in practice. If that were the case, way more of us would have been spanked in front of witnesses and our mothers or mother-in-laws would all be telling our wives to spank us more! I do think the volume reflects more what people fantasize about and now what they've actually done or would do.
Delete"If you have not experienced it, then it probably isn’t part of any DD ideal for you -and if you have experienced it, both the experience and the memory are a little bit too real and not erotic." Seems like it's probably more that it isn't part of any DD ideal for HER, not for you since for the people who have experienced it, it seems to have been a spontaneous occurrence.
Sounds like we have a developing topic around "face slapping"!
DeleteMC uses face slapping and is very good at it. It's normally part of a pre-spanking lecture to punctuate her dominance. Unlike spanking, which is basically safe play even for beginners, face slapping is not. I would recommend a short stroke (just a few inches) at first until she is comfortable with it, maybe holding his face with her other hand to help with the aim and to prevent the head from twisting. While it adds spice, in my opinion a little goes a long way.
Tom,
DeleteMy wife often uses the chin hold for severe scolding (It's one way I know it's serious). But she has never combined that with slapping my face. The chin hold, however, along with directly looking into her eyes, does evoke the feeling of being entirely under her control. It's very effective for focusing attention on her and what she is saying.
Alan
Regardless of how you interupet the DWC stories as to how merciless they were, the actual spanking I received from Aunt Kay was definitely over the top for me. There is a big difference between the fantasies I had from reading the DWC stories and what an actual disciplinary spanking was like. In general, there seems to be this dichotomy for many of us between the fantasy and the reality around what we want. Most of us, myself included, often express how we want our wives to be more strict, and wish they would spank harder and longer than they do in order to get us to the point of submission. I guess Aunt Kay did me a favor by demonstrating to me what I quickly realized was way too much.
ReplyDeleteShe helped me understand that what I imagined I wanted was much more than what I really wanted. Her advice was to have each spanking be hard and long enough to be a memorable experience, and not to worry about the marks. I get over 100 spankings a year, so each one isn't going to be memorable. It is just part of our day to day lifestyle. She also used to say the harder and longer you spank him, the more he will love you. I appreciate that idea more than I used to, but again, there is a limit to how much I really want. So one topic could be about the difference between our fantasy and the reality of what we want, and how close we come to getting what we imagine we want. Most of us are very appreciative of whatever we get, and in order for real DD to be effective, she must get something out of it. "What does she get out of it?" could be a topic where more women might be likely to contribute.
"She helped me understand that what I imagined I wanted was much more than what I really wanted."
DeleteI think for some there is a dichotomy or paradox, but I think for some of us it is resolved in a way reflected in this Aunt Kay quote from one of the DWC manuals:
“My goal is for you, the man in the relationship, to one day ask yourself, "Oh, NO! What did I get myself into?" as you await an upcoming spanking session that you desperately want to avoid. Yes, that's right. I want you to be genuinely anxious and dreading an upcoming discipline session. Why would I say such a thing? Because it means your wife has taken the role of disciplinarian seriously, has made a decision that you are going to get a good sound licking, and you have nothing to say about it. It is the essence of a DWC relationship."
For me, there was an epiphany after Anne gave me a couple of very stinging lectures last year that left me downright resentful. I talked to Aunt Kay's husband about it, and he said something to the effect of, "Well, a really bad scolding is very hard to take. It just is." It got me thinking about the difference between what I "want" (little picture) and what I know I need (big picture). I kind of knew this already, but something about the process of getting over a scolding that really bruised my ego and made me think harder about what I did that lead to it, and harder about the authority we had agreed Anne would have, led me to face up to the fact that if I was getting only those punishments that I "wanted", then was I really giving up any of the control I said I wanted to give up and, at bottom, was it really disciplinary at all?
I'm not saying that a spanking has to be over-the-top hard to be disciplinary. But, I am saying that if all a husband is getting is what he wants, then maybe he should be questioning whether what he really wants is discipline, or is it something else?
FYI, I don't remember where she said this, but I do recall that somewhere on the DWC website or, more likely, in one of the DWC publications Aunt Kay said that one thing she liked about the group sessions was that some of the men wanted spankings that were much harder than her husband could take, and she enjoyed giving them. Her husband has admitted to me that he definitely wasn't "heroic" in his level of pain tolerance. On the other hand, I have always had an unusually high tolerance for physical pain.
Since I started this discussion I should describe my own experience. My wife’s spankings are similar in format but differ greatly in severity. She always starts with a brief scolding, then removes my pants and shorts. She does this herself, no doubt as a sign of her complete control. She then sits on the bed and orders me over her lap. Her manner is calm but very stern. She ordinarily uses a heavy old hairbrush, but occasionally a short strap or wooden ruler. She does not want to leave bruises, so in a long spanking she will put down the brush and use her hand. She is athletic and strong, and her hand is hard for a woman. It is quite painful on an already sore target.
DeleteFor a minor offense, like sarcasm directed against one of her friends, the spanking and scolding may be over in a few minutes. I am then allowed to apologize and get up and get dressed.
For more serious things, like deliberate defiance of her directions, prolonged grouchiness, etc. the scolding and spanking will be longer and more severe.
I may remain over her lap for twenty minutes, though most of that time will be scolding with me expected to explain my actions and apologize for them.
The hairbrush may be in use for just five minutes or so, her hand a few minutes more.
When it’s over it’s over. She gives me a hug and reminds me of it only when she thinks it necessary. I consider myself fortunate that way.
my wife spanks me way beyond what I can tolerate both in severity and duration and its not up to me how hard she spanks. I definitely have a very healthy fear and panic when I know I am about to be disciplined. She is very much has a goal for me to hurt to sit down for days and both submit and learn a lesson I will remember. Because of this she never does over the knee spankings like a lot here. She wants to ensure its painful discipline. She always has me over the bed or couch with a belt or cane and does not hold back.
DeleteAs far as rituals we don't really have many. a lot of spankings are in the moment and those typically get corner time after bc my wife is upset and wants me quietly reflecting on why I got in trouble after. When the spankings cant be immediate and they are before bed or in the morning my wife will a lot of times have me in position over the bed while she is either doing her morning before work makeup or before bed makeup routine and she will either have me quietly waiting discipline or she will scold me while she does her routine or she will have me recap why i am about to get spanked and what to do differently in the future. After the spanking she will sometimes put me in the corner while she watches a show before bed or she will leave for work in the morning, depending on when it is.
-DD
"Because of this she never does over the knee spankings like a lot here. She wants to ensure its painful discipline."
DeleteThat was the case with us for a very, very long time, because when we first started DD and tried the classic OTK, it wasn't very effective. Then, we tried it again two or three years ago, and it was a totally different experience. I do "miss" some of the standup sessions with a paddle, strap, or belt, as there are iconic aspects to all those positions that tap into my desires for "real" discipline. The big advantage to me with the strap is that sessions can go longer without me getting numb. A large paddle is the opposite - it hurts like hell initially, but I go numb quickly. The cane just never worked for us. Anne tried a few times, but it just didn't hurt, and she didn't like it. I have no doubt it was a technique thing that might get better with practice. I would like to see it become an option.
Norton said :"What does she get out of it?" could be a topic where more women might be likely to contribute.
DeleteI like this topic and MC and I have given this a lot of thought and conversation. Dan, you mentioned lack of consistency as a major issue in a DD relationship, and I think the key to consistency is making this fun and engaging for our wives, giving them tangible benefits for being our disciplinarians. I have been employing the direct approach, asking her directly what she would like each day and then listening and acting on her requests.
She does not have a set method of administering discipline except to do it immediately after the infraction if at all possible. If she learns about it later, I get spanked as soon as she learns about it. Various implements are used and I am always stripped when spanked. If we are away from home, I still get it on the bare and most often get another spanking when we return home. She has no set time or number of strokes, but rather spanks until she feels it is sufficient for the offense. At times she has told me to remain in position and she returns in a short time for more spanking. For very serious offenses, I get a spanking for several consecutive days.
ReplyDeleteMy wife has slapped my face a few times, during scolding she felt I wasn’t really listening? The slap got my attention big time. When I blurted out a four letter word she left the room and returned with a bar of soap , washed my mouth and really blistered my behind. Haven’t cursed since.
DeleteYup, mouth soaping and a good spanking are very effective.... experience talking here.
DeleteSeveral writers have somewhat alluded to this question, but maybe an explicit rephrasing might make a subject for future discussion:
ReplyDeleteThrashings can be administered for: (1) Punishment towards behavior modification (including overt expressions of mood/general attitude); (2) Inducing and getting expressions of subjugation, submission and respect for wife's authority; or (3) Combinations of both.
Do members get all of these kinds of thrashings? More some than others? How does your wife accomplish the "subjugation to surrentder" thrashings, and how well do they work, for both husband and wife?
Thrashing? Is that British for spanking?
DeleteI’d be curious to hear everyone’s input on this topic as well
DeleteI don't know specifically if the term "thrashing" is exclusively "British," but I do know that term was very commonly used by both my paternal grandmother (immigrant to North America from Scotland) and paternal grandfather (immigrant to North America from England).
DeleteThat term "thrashing" also frequently appears in real-life and fictional accounts of corporal punishment occurring in the British Isles.
Miss E:
DeleteI proposed this possible topic because both I and my wife want to learn more about other couples experiences and methods for maintaining strong "authority dynamic" in our types of relationships.
I thought that the overall subject was so broad, with so many possibilities, that only a "full week's discussion" would be sufficient, so I proposed it as a stand-along subject (as Dan requested).
However, if you would like to make suggestions, or you have questions, as to specific parts or elements of that dynamic, and maintaining / restoring a "strong dynamic," or closely related matters, maybe add them to this thread to Dan can consider creating a more "unified / expanded" discussion in some future forum.
Does anyone else have suggestions for how to expand or enhance such a possible future forum discussion?
P.S.
DeleteI think "thrashing" is commonly used to describe corporal punishment (CP) in Britain because the British have so many different ways of administering CP. It could be applied to any or all of these methods.
A Scottish "belting" of the buttocks with a Tawse. (An incredibly hard, thick, painful "leather strap.")
A Scottish or Irish "strapping" of the hands, again with a Tawse, or "[Irish/Christian] School Strap," (another incredibly painful "leather strap," weighted with internal "metal coins" to increase the impact energy of the "tip.")
A British/Scottish "caning" with a piece of whippy rattan, 10-14mm diameter.
A British/Scottish "birching," of a teenagers to full-grown adult-male "convicts" of lesser offenses, using a bundle of springy, "rough-branches" from a tree. (Often a quite "bloody affair.") Calling such a "birching" a "spanking" would be . . . "grossly misleading."
My wife using a "strap" on the soles of my feet, as is still commonly done in many mid-Eastern countries, such as her parents' native Turkey.
Since members here are subject to so many different implements, of such wide ranging severity, I use "thrashing" as a "catch-all" term. on
I do tend to use "spanking" as a catch-all, though to my ear it sometimes sounds artificially mild. I also often use "paddling" and "strapping," and I don't think I would ever refer to a caning as a "spanking." For some reason, "thrashing" and especially "beating" sound very harsh to me, but I totally get how people react very differently to these terms depending on where and when we were raised.
DeleteMiss E, what term do you use? I always talk about spanking, because it is unquestionably appropriate for what I receive from my wife - use of a hairbrush (or infrequently strap or wooden ruler) on my bare bottom while I lie across her lap.
DeleteIf she were to use a strap while I was bent over I guess I'd call it a strapping, but that is not what she does.
I like the topic as you proposed it Donn. Another aspect to a spanking which could be discussed it whether or not anyone uses them as purely for anxiety/stress relievers. Id been toying around with the idea and last night I decided to actually give it a try. Pregnancy has had its challenges these past few months and yesterday was a mentally taxing day. Up until this point I have always only spanked for a deserving reason and punishment. But I was so stressed last night I felt I just needed something to hold on to, his submission. So I asked him if I could spank him and made it clear it was not a punishment but something for me. He immediately said yes and was so sweetly submissive before it even began. The entire spanking was slow and intimate but we did build up to a nice intensity and he handled it. Im asking him tonight but I suspect he was sinking closer to subspace with this one vs a punishment spanking. Regardless it was a nice and needed experience.
DeleteAnd to answer your question Tom, I always call them spankings. I like the domestic sound of it.
My wife is of European decent and likes the word thrashing. She will use spanking at times. For her a thrashing is for big boys like us. A spanking is for a child. At times she will use spanking to kind of reduce my ego. Almost as if too say, I’m going to spank the naughtiness’s out of you.
DeleteWhen she is mad she will say, I’m going to give you a thrashing. You won’t sit for quite sometime when I’m done mister. I hear way more thrashings out of her mouth than spankings.
T
Miss E:
DeleteRegarding your question about using spankings for stress / anxiety relief, for the spanker . . .
I have been working on rejuvenating the DWC website. As part of that work, I've been rereading many of the older "Real Life" accounts by DWC members.
You might want to take a look at "A husband's essay" discussing his classification of three basic types of spankings. In particular, he spends most of his essay discussing "Therapeutic Spankings," and how they can meet the emotional needs of BOTH members of the couple:
www.auntkaysdwc.com/Real People/peop.htm#HUSB-ESSAY
(Aunt Kay used a relatively small type font on her pages. You may want to use your web-browsers "Zoom Function" to enlarge that essay.)
I'm glad you have found such a wonderful partner, who would help you in such a way. I have sometimes helped my own wife in similar, sometimes quite intense, ways.
three b
Thank you so much for sharing the story, I plan to read it in a bit!
DeleteMiss E, I also like it that the term spanking connotes domestic discipline. I am wondering about spanking being used for stress relief.
DeleteThat is something new for me to digest. In my family, it is punishment for behavior that my wife considers unacceptable. And I have to accept it, even when I think it is just marginally justified. I'm not sure how I'd respond if she wanted to spank me for some other reason. Her spankings are pretty serious.
the biggest thing I can say about my origin story is that getting spanked for disicpline under my wifes authority saved my marriage.
ReplyDeletewe were in a 2 year rough spot with constant fighting and bickering. We did not have any defined roles and I thought at the time I was
in charge because I was the man and I would let my ego and pride get in the way of a lot of arguments. My wife would try and address issues
related to my behavior, attitude, effort in the relationship etc and it would always end in long fights followed by weeks or even months of
unresolved conflict before I would realize she was right and I was wrong. Sometimes I would apologize but not always. In one conversation where
I had apoligized and admitted my wife was right way after the fact (for the nth time) my wife brought up in a generalized way wanting to have a way
to hold me accountable or a way to find resolution in the moment. That got me to looking around on the internet and eventually to FLRs and ultimately
domestic discipline within that relationship dynamic. It intrigued me and I was at a point I wanted her to have power and agency in the relationship
and the ability to hold me accountable. I brought it up to her and she was open minded and after a few arguments she spanked me and she liked it but it kind of fell
off for a couple more years. I had liked it too for its resolution and it worked real well in checking my ego. I had almost forgotten about it when one night, we had ben arguing frequently again, after I had lied to her about something dumb
she said she had had enough and told me I was going to be spanked with the belt for my behavior. Something about how she spoke to me that night was very different
than previously. I could tell she was very frustrated and dissapointed but I also saw a resolve in her eyes, a resolve to address and correct my behavior. She very
sternly marched me upstairs to our room and instead of arguing I just followed. I didn't want to make her more upset but I also knew I both needed and deserved the
spanking I was about to get. She proceeded to give me a very serious scolding and bare bottom belting over the bed I still remember vividly. It was the worst spanking
and punishment I had gotten to date, and that is including from my parents growing up. I remember feeling terrible for driving my wife to that level of frustration and
for needing to be spanked. Over the next few weeks I was spanked a lot. I could tell this time my wife realized she got something out of it, she liked my remorseful attitude
after being disciplined. I got spanked so much I thought I couildn't do anything right. Eventually we had a conversation and basically formalized the dynamic that my wife
would be the head of household and the authority in the marriage and she would have the ability to discipline me with spankings whenever she felt I needed one. For her, it was
the only way things would work going forward. Well over time, in particular, the first year, she was strict and leaned on discipline as a tool but after that first year things in the relationship
got sooo much better. We are like best friends most of the time and our relationship is the best it has ever been. She has also vented out all that initial frustration but is
still strict and disciplines me when I need it but because of the authority she has and the ability to hold me accountable, the slate is wiped clean after being spanked and we are both
back to normnal immediately after. I dont get spanked as frequently as I did out the gate initially but I am better behaved now. A lot of my wifes bigger issues have been permanently addressed
I still get spanked for a bad attitude, anything she finds disrespectful, lying and any other behavior issue. One thing that kind of evolved with her role as the authority in the marriage
is disobedience got added on later when she fully realized she is in charge and how effective disciplining me is. Now if I do something she has told me not to or dont do something
she told me to do I can expect to be spanked for that too.
- DD
Thanks, DD. There are so many things I like about your origins story.
DeleteWhen your wife finall took you in hand after not seeming that into it for two years, do you think something happened to trigger that, like something she saw or read, or was it simply that she finally got totally fed up with the behavior and remembered the previous plans around spanking you for it?
It seems like the progression your DD took, from being extremely strict at first then tapering off to where it is today is the reverse of what many experience, though arguably more in line with how DD is supposed to work. By that, I mean your wife's strictness lasted, with the frequency of spankings very high, until your behavior finally improved. It seems like in these relationships (mine included), it's often the reverse, with the dynamic being inconsistent and overly forgiving in the early years, then the wife hits an age where she gains confidence and starts looking for more things to correct.
Disobedience is an interesting concept in DD. You can look at it as an independent offense, but I could also argue that if the couple has agreed to a set of rules, then anytime you've earned a spanking it is both for the behavior and for disobeying the rule. I guess the crucial difference is who set the rule in the first place. It sounds like your wife started going beyond rules and telling you on the fly what she wants you to do or not do, and she has the authority to punish the disobedience itself when you don't do what she wants. That's been kind of a goal for us, though perhaps not articulated quite like that, but we've never quite gotten there.
"or was it simply that she finally got totally fed up with the behavior and remembered the previous plans around spanking you for it?" - it was this, she felt like she was willing to try anything to correct my behavior and the relationship.
DeleteI would say she is still just as strict, I am just better behaved. She does not hesitate to discipline me when I need it. There is rarely a month that goes by I dont get in trouble for something lol.
-DD
"There is rarely a month that goes by I dont get in trouble for something lol." In the past that's been true for me, too, though it has not always resulted in the deserved punishment. Earlier this year, I felt like we needed something more like you describe in your earlier phase, i.e. something where she's doing it so often that I feel like I have no other choice but to really get my shit together. For a little while something like that seemed to be coming, then it tapered off substantially.
DeleteWe go through those phases also although I don’t think more than 4 weeks has passed at anytime between spankings since we started. For me the key ‘problem’ is consistency - I would honestly prefer that every infraction was dealt with via spanking or threat of spanking. The reality is that we will sometimes argue ( most often initiated by me!) whereas I am sure that any of those disputes could be ended by her by either threatening or delivering a spanking. I have explained this to her multiple times and we make progress but often a step forward, a step back. It is the only fly in the ointment… TB
DeleteI've asked Anne why she doesn't resort to spanking, or the threat of one, more often during arguments. She says that she often just doesn't think of it in the heat of the moment. But, that's probably both a symptom and a cause. If she were doing it or threatening it more often, it would become a self-reinforcing reflex.
DeleteI am sure that any of those disputes could be ended by her by either threatening or delivering a spanking.
DeleteMy wife and I handle disputes/arguing like this: I have the right to my opinions and thoughts on anything and she always carefully listens and considers my opinion and then She makes the decision on whatever the dispute is about. after that any further convincing, or discussion on my part is considered “Argumentative”, which is a rule in our FLR/DD relationship and is of course punishable. It works well for us. I am rarely argumentative, but I am always allowed to give my input….Once!
Jackson,
DeleteOur system is similar but maybe a bit stricter per-spanking. She wants to hear " yes Ma'am" after deciding to spank but allows a very brief request to reconsider. But that's all before spanking.
But after a spanking I am allowed a full even extended discussion about why and my position-as long as I am calm and respectful. I have mentioned on here before how much of the " I don't deserve this" goes away after its already over. Its made me realize that much of the protests about getting a spanking are less about fairness and more about just protecting my ass
Alan
I am so enjoying the engagement with other men who are disciplined by their wives. “I don’t deserve this”.
DeleteIn our FLR I have only once felt like I didn’t deserve it. We were on a trip with some friends for a few weeks and one day I was being disagreeable about a few things, I can’t remember what. We were taking a plane to a nearby location the next day and staying there for about a week( a vacation from our vacation). She apparently thought my argumentative behavior was worse than I thought it, and she announced before getting in to the shower that we were having discipline, before going the next morning. I didn’t say anything. She finished getting ready for bed and got in bed and said nothing. I brushed my teeth(for a long time), and started to get in to bed. She said, “What are you doing? I said we are having discipline before going to _______. Right Now!!!” I said, “ I don’t think my behavior rose to the level of being spanked, but I will submit to it.” I retrieved the bath brush she required me to bring on the trip for just this purpose, and when I handed it to her I saw that she had brought a small, super stingy lexan cane. I bent over the bed and assumed the normal position. She started in hard with the bath brush and it went on for what seemed like. A very long time, but was probably less than 4 minutes. Still, that’s a lot of bath brush. Several times she had to stop and shush my howling(we were in a hotel after all). Then she started in with the cane and finished with rapid fire hard cane strokes(2-3 more minutes). She did not rub lotion or engage in any after care. Before we fell asleep I thanked her for staying true to our FLR dynamic, but also stated (at the very real risk of repeating the whole thing) that I still thought it was undeserved, but also promised excellent behavior for the rest of the trip, and I delivered. I suppose in retrospect, I did deserve it. Being disagreeable over little things is counter to our dynamic, after all, I have agreed that She is the leader in our relationship, and I asked her to punish me and hold me accountable when I break our rules. Since I have been reading this blog(about 2 weeks), we have added two rules…Failure on my part to take proper self care(doctor and dentist appointments etc), and Any Disobedience. I agree that it changes and intensifies things to be punished not only for breaking Her rule, but for the Disobedience of rule breaking. It strengthens her authoritative role in our dynamic. I am curious if others have added or altered their agreements with their Disciplinary wives. I am also interested in the concept of other forms of physical discipline besides a Real Punishment spanking. To me anything else sounds a little adjacent to BDSM, and I certainly do not mean that in a judging way. I would be willing to explore it, but I do not think She would. I bought a violet wand once, so she could cause me pain without leaving marks which use to bother her, but I don’t think it really does anymore. She has never used it.
I would also be very interested to get the opinions of Disciplinary wives on any of my comments and/or origin story, and the FLR style that I have described here, and just any opinions and comments from our female participants. It would be interesting to see how they differ and are similar in their style of leading and disciplining their husbands.
DeleteRegarding face slapping or hitting with the hand; we have a firm rule that she never hits me with her hand. Thrashings, spankings, etc are administered with the implement of her choice. Skin to skin contact is for love, reassurance, and bonding.
ReplyDeleteThat's an interesting rule, and I can see why someone might adopt it.
DeleteMy origin story may differ from many here. I never went to her and inquired about a domestic discipline or female led relationship. She informed me as soon as we started consistently dating that she was going to be the head of household and the boss in our relationship. I wasn't thrilled about it, but was told that was the way it was going to be and that it was over if I couldn't accept it. By that time, I had already started falling in love with her, so I accepted her terms. As soon as we moved in together, she made it clear that 80% of the household chores were my responsibility and that she expected them done in a timely manner and up to her standards.
ReplyDeleteThe first spanking she ever gave me was for failing to do so. The first time I came home late without calling her after hanging out with a few friends from work was the first time she grounded me. Afterwards, she told me to call them and tell them I was grounded for a week and wouldn't be joining them until my time was up. I refused to do it and was spanked for disobeying her. When she was done, she demanded my phone and called them all herself and told them. From then on, I called them myself while she watched.
She has other rules besides the chores like a curfew, no back talk or disrespect, going to bed when she does, etc…. It was clear after those first few times that she meant business and I was under a new regime. She is the leader in our relationship and we're both open and honest about it with everyone. I told her I didn't like it and was embarrassed, but she said that was too bad and she wasn't going to act like she was ashamed of something she was proud of instead.
I have to respectfully disagree with the face slapping I've seen mentioned here. If it works for some people, that's fine. But I find it demeaning and degrading and a trigger for traumas I experienced in my younger years. I told her that was a deal breaker on my end if I were to agree to those terms, and she told me one of the points to using spanking and grounding was to avoid such things by making sure frustration and resentment didn't build up to it. She has never once hit me in the face, and instead makes it a point to hug and kiss me after whatever punishment and let me know the issue is resolved and over with.
As far as topics for future posts, it's your blog but I can't encourage you enough to stick with the grounding at least in part. Again, you see spanking and corner time and the like discussed constantly within the context of FLR and DD, but rarely grounding and that really should change. For men, it's ups the stakes and provides even further incentive to stay in line and not tempt fate. For women, it provides them with even more leverage and makes it easier to show their man that they aren't screwing around. Especially if they decide to take the route my wife did and have the grounded party face up to it publicly. Way, WAY more embarrassing than any spanking.
Sorry. Meant to sign - TnP
DeleteYou're right that your origin story is pretty different from what others here experienced, but that's why I like the blog being a (mostly) open discussion. I love hearing about the variety of ways people find their way into these relationships.
DeleteIf I may ask, how old were you and your partner when you started dating?
I agree that grounding is something more wives should probably at least consider though, for whatever reason, Anne just never seemed to be very into the idea even though I've brought it up to her repeatedly. I admit that corner time is totally lost on me. I've done topics on it, but they are few are far between in part because it's a topic that doesn't interest me even remotely, and it's hard for me to bring myself to bring much focus to writing topics that I'm just not interested in. I'm not dissing it as a good option for others. Rather, it just does nothing for me personally. I look at the wall, quickly go into a meditative state, and that's it.
Grounding as described here involves informing acquaintances that you are being punished. I would consider this a violation of the privacy of our family practices, which are strictly a matter between me and my wife. In fact, she treats me with respect in the presence of others.
DeleteMy wife utilized a threat of grounding one time and it was for a golf day. I promised to complete a task for her. I failed to do so and “forgot”. Her response was well what if you “forgot” about your golf outing today. She never followed through with the veiled threat. But Like Tom, our DD practice is private with the exception of one of my wife’s friends who we never see due to logistics. To answer Donn above, my wife prefers to use the word thrashing and although I haven’t looked it up, it is for my behavior modification and my negative attitude. Just as in the other night when she was feeling a bit better from a procedure was tired of my attitude. She gave me an immediate thrashing which was unexpected and surprised me, I was quickly squirming as it had been a while. It was not a very long thrashing because of her procedure, but she made the point. Another point, it’s great to see some new additions to the blog. A refreshing insight into our small group.
DeleteT
T, agreed on the new members. As I've noted a few times, I started morphing a few posts into articles on Medium, under a different name. Eventually, I started including with those articles a link to this blog. I think a fair amount of the new membership is coming from there. It's a truly terrible platform for getting a conversation going because of the lack of anonymity, but I do think it's become a decent feeder to this platform. FYI, the reason I used a different name there was really as an experiment. I wanted to test just how much interest in DD there was out there that was not already captured in this blog's visitorship. So, at first I didn't refer to this blog at all and, instead, just posted articles about DD and with a DWC reference. Once I realized how bad Medium was for getting a discussion going, however, I started including express pointers back to this blog and referencing it as "my" blog. So, the separate identities are kind of pointless at this point.
DeleteDan,
DeleteIt’s funny you mention that, I read all of your articles on Medium. I said to myself based on your writing here, that sounds a lot like Dan. I agree that Medium is not a great platform and it’s not anonymous so to speak.
Yeah, the specific issue with Medium is that most people are using profiles with their real identities. Many won't risk even "clapping" for an article about DD, let alone leaving a comment indicating they are in or interested in DD as a lifestyle.
DeleteDan,
DeleteSome kudos earned: your writing on Medium has been excellent and, at times, exceptional. Medium is missing a market by not enabling pseudonyms for comments. Consider being even more aggressive in alluding back to the blog. The demographics on Medium seem very favorable
Alan
Thanks, Alan! The Medium tool, and the conventions for articles there, do require a different approach than I've taken on the blog. But, I've enjoyed it. I didn't start writing there with a DD identity in mind. Rather, I would periodically get links to Medium articles when searching for things on Google. I started checking it out regularly, and finally created an account and started writing there, on totally vanilla topics under my real identity. I was pretty prolific for about a year, then kind of burned out. Around that time, I just got curious about how DD topics might fare there and, as I said, it seemed like an interesting way to test how much untapped DD interest might be out there.
DeleteRegarding anonymity and pseudonyms, it's really about the way Medium accounts tend to come about. There is not prohibition on pseudonyms, and many do use them. But, Medium was primarily conceived as a platform for writers, and there is a commercial aspect to it. Once you have 100 followers, you can join Medium's commercial program and conceivably get paid for your writing, based on a very opaque algorithm. Also, without a paid account, you can only read like 14 articles a month. The annual membership fee is quite most, like $50 a year. But, between the annual membership fee and the commercial model, most people are engaging on the platform using an account that has their actual identity and, for the commercial program, contact information associated with it. So, people come to the site using those profiles and their profile name, which very often includes biographical details, because they are providing those details as part of highlighting their own articles. All that adds up to a platform where people are using a single profile to interact with the platform, and that profile is directly traceable back to their real identity.
On the demographics, it's an interesting mix. I do have quite a few women "followers," but a very large percentage of them are Medium writers themselves, very often in the erotic fiction genre. So, they are already very pre-disposed to kink, and their interests generally seem to be more garden-variety kink or Femdom-ish. But, what always intrigues me is when new female follower has a non-kinky profile and writes in non-kinky areas. A few have very vanilla profiles and write in areas like health or fitness. Those always make me very curious, wondering about their DD status and their backstory.
BRIEF OFF-SUBJECT MATTER: DWC Website Rebuilding
ReplyDeleteDan: Regarding the artwork on the front of the first two DWC handbooks, I did manage to locate Aunt Kay's original reference to that artist. Located in the DWC website section "Aunt Kay's Viewpoints : Our Community," she wrote:
"The artist who created the beautiful and sensitive images that grace covers of our first publications, the Lifestyle Kit and Companion Guide, is a professional who is talented beyond what I can describe here. His work is another example of the Community spirit that makes up the DWC. He and his wife contributed so much in the way of time, and other resources."
The artwork on the second two publications has very similar "hand," suggesting the same artist's work.
These first two handbooks were published ca. 1998-99. This information may assist Jerry/Tomy recalling or locating more information about that particular DWC couple (wife, and artist hubby).
Dan, if you would prefer I make further website-info updates "off-board," and instead use your published email address, please state your preference.
Thanks, Donn. It probably does make sense to take the technical and website-related discussion off-board. My published email address is good.
DeleteWe started with DD about a decade ago. I've long had a fascination with spanking, and oscillated between wanting to spank and wanting to be spanked between age 10 and age 20. My wife and I experimented with me spanking her a bit, not hard.
ReplyDeleteAbout a decade ago I was feeling trapped by the lack of spanking and also doing poorly at work. One late night at the office, I realized we could kill two birds with one stone if she could spank me for mishandling work. I went straight out and bought a hairbrush from a 24-hour store. Then I went home and we had a 3am conversation. I told her everything I was struggling with at work and my proposed solution. She felt for my work situation very much and wanted to help, but was taken aback by the suggestion she spank me and keep track of rules that could earn future spankings. Even more so that I wanted her to spank me that right for what I'd already done. She was worried about this changing the nature of our relationship in a bad way. However, she agreed. We went deeper into the house and she spanked me bare with the hairbrush I bought. She was overwhelmed with emotion and afraid of the noise level and had to stop after several spanks, but she came back, started again and managed some more.
Looking back on that night, I must've seemed crazy and I'm amazed she agreed to anything.
The next week was stressful. She had trouble understanding what exactly were my rules and she didn't like this new job of watching me on top of the rest of life. I was pushing to be spanked soon after the offense which was hard with kids. She did agree to spank harder, about twice as long and hard as the first night, and I was starting to improve at work. I would feel the little reminder of my pain when starting to misuse my time at work and my numbers were improving. But, we had an argument and stopped DD for awhile.
We repeated variations of that, some DD periods lasting much longer, others only a day or two. We had conversations about how DD was helping me with habits but also meeting a spanking need. We talked about my wife's feelings when being asked to spank. How she was happy to meet my needs but didn't like being pushed to act like she felt the intimacy I did from spanking. We talked about how DD might help or hinder aspects of our marriage, and many other related topics.
Our current arrangement is that she will mostly spank me when I report I need one, based on some goals I self-manage. She will point out some rule breaking we've agreed to but not "order me to the bedroom." When I'm in danger of earning a spanking I get some encouraging eye contact and a shrug, like, "c'mon, are you going to let this happen?" It's cute. She will occasionally unexpectedly say she'd like to spank me. It is rare, but thrilling.
Our origin story is not over!
P.S. Regarding the DWC talk, I think my wife read some Aunt Kay material somewhere around 2018 or 2019. I'd coached her a bit on severity, but it made her emotional and pull back. But one day she started connecting her swats more confidently and stopped hesitating when I asked that a spanking be a hard one. I bet she read some article by a reasonable-sounding woman, advising women that harder spankings would counterintuitively make their men happier. I know she'd googled and found the old Taken in Hand site, and DWC could easily come up in those searches.
"Our origin story is not over!"
DeleteI often wanted Anne to spanking for work-related issues or poor work performance. But, it never seemed to work. It wasn't so much that she wasn't willing. Part of the problem was there was no one to rat me out to her, and I was very unreliable at reporting. That may have been because, while it sounds like you've struggled with your wife not spanking hard enough, that has never been an issue for Anne. Her spankings have been hard AF pretty much from day one, which can create an obvious disincentive for honest self-reporting. Also, the times I probably needed in the most were early to mid-way through my career, which covers our child-rearing period. It seemed like a lot to ask for her to help me deal with work issues when she had both her own job and kid issues that could be overwhelming and took priority.
Yes, it was a lot to ask. Too much. But she was concerned about my job and career and wanted to help. We had other discussions about how to organize time, starting and ending hours, and problems in management. So, that I proposed a solution that would involve her wasn't surprising, just the nature of the solution.
DeleteAs for the "ratting out," I think we talked about this years ago, but I had the advantage of starting DD in a different era. I automated almost all of the reporting during that period. I had time tracking set up and we both would get an email if too many negative events accumulated, or not enough positive events accumulated. Since it was one email going to both of us, we could have a little chat about it in the same email thread.
Too bad you weren't able to give Anne's number to a watchful secretary in the know. Also, my wife once said she wished bosses could just spank employees; that also would make things easy for wives. :)
MW, for me there were objective metrics that probably could have been amenable to some kind of regular, if not automatic, reporting process. But, the problem was, I was always near the top of the organization on the objective stuff. My issue tended to be around things like temper, getting snotty with org chart superiors I didn't respect, etc. Also, lots of procrastination and inefficiency that led me to be pissed at myself a lot but that would have been very hard for anyone to monitor and report.
DeleteFor a short period, I had a secretary who might have fit the bill over time. We were a very buttoned down organization at that time, yet I hired this secretary who, though not very attractive and about as wide as she was tall, constantly wore very short skirts and shirts that revealed not just lots of her body but all her various tattoos. She also had a nose ring and came into work each week with a different neon hair color. I was always getting pressured to get rid of her, but she was the best secretary I ever had, and I just liked her. I always thought the org was way too conservative, so keeping her on was kind of my personal "F You." (See what I mean about the kind of issue that got me in trouble but wasn't anything Anne could monitor?) Anyway, one day at a team happy hour we got to talking about what a sensation Fifty Shades had become, as it was taking the publishing world by storm at that time. My secretary said, without a hint of embarrassment, "Yeah, it's just way too soft for me. I prefer Anne Rice's "Sleeping Beauty" series. If you don't know that series. it was an erotic fantasy series by Anne Rice, writing under a pseudonym, and it was basically very, very graphic BDSM. I may have been the only one in the group who was familiar with them, but it certainly gave me a whole new insight into my secretary's proclivities. Unfortunately, she was way too smart for that role and eventually moved on to greener pastures, before I could explore whether she might have been a candidate for ratting me out.
Intriguing. It would take me years to find the courage to bring up that topic!
DeleteI suppose one possible topic is physical punishments besides spanking?
ReplyDeleteJ.
I wasn't able to join in this past week but it seems the previous week carried over nicely - great discussions. I will just add that my wife has never face slapped me - and I don't think it would even ever occur for her to so. We have never discussed it, but I would find it demeaning and humiliating, and I believe she would also. And while I do understand that DD means different things to different couples, "humiliation" (as opposed to "humbling") is not part of our dynamic (but with all due respect for those with a different dynamic). --al
ReplyDeleteHi -al, this may be the first instance where the experiences you relate are different from mine. Reading the post, the difference may be in your sense of face slapping being humiliation. Like you, I strongly oppose introducing any form of real humiliation into DD, and my wife also feels strongly about that. But humbling, however to me, is a distinct emotion that is sometimes needed in the DD of an alpha male.
DeleteAs to face slapping itself, when it has happened, which is rare, its effect was not to humiliate or even humble me, but a profound expression of her frustration at that point and determination to administer punishment to someone being defiant. It is that bright red line and I understand it as such.
Alan
Yeah - just a somewhat different perspective/dynamic on this particular issue (and a relatively minor one at that in the "grand scheme"). :) --al
DeleteIt seems to me that there is a close association between "humbling," "degrading" and "humiliating" a disobedient man.
DeleteAs I recall, Aunt Key herself, in one of her essays, wrote about the punishment process:
". . . don't be afraid to degrade and humiliate him, . . ."
To me, these three processes / states of mind form a continuum on the same scale.
I think we can all agree that it is often necessary to humble and even "degrade" a man, to so reduce his ego and beliefs, to basically clear out certain "bad, interfering precursors" in his psyche, in order to rebuild the man on a "solid foundation."
Any thought about possibly making one week's subject a discussion of the differences and similarities between these processes / states?
I hadn't planned on starting a discussion on this subject, but since some people are commenting I'll say a little more. On the rare occasions when I've been slapped, I have been startled, and made to realize that I was violating our compact. Our compact is that my wife has the authority to punish bad behavior and to define what behavior is bad. But why is this more humiliating than an over the knee spanking? I do not consider it so.
DeleteDonn wrote: "It seems to me that there is a close association between "humbling," "degrading" and "humiliating" a disobedient man."
DeleteWe've had numerous discussions here over the years about the distinction between "humbling" and "humiliating" - or "humility vs humiliate". A gray area to be sure - but my personal take is that being reminded to be humble and practice humility via a sound spanking is distinctively different than being "humiliated". This is not to say that any particular DD couple might not choose one or the other - or that they are wrong for doing so. In our case, being reminded to be humble - rather than humiliation - is a more appropriate description. --al
Yes, I can try to do a topic on that. Without going into it too much here, I can see it both ways. I get Donn's position that they are related concepts but on a continuum. On the other hand, I do react to those points on the continuum very differently. I don't know whether it is merely a difference of degree or a difference of kind, but my visceral reaction to the term "humiliation" is much more negative than to "humbling." I think of humbling as a form of correction or balancing. His ego is leading to an unbalanced state in hte marriage, and perhaps in his personality/temperament/attitude. Spanking and other assertions of her authority take him down a peg and, in the process balance things out. Humiliation seems more intentionally hurtful, designed not to sand down the ego but to damage it. I haven't given any real thought to "degrading."
DeleteWe can go into this molre when discussing it as a topic, but while I do sort of get people who are into spanking for its own sake even if that isn't really how it works for me, I just do not understand men who truly get off on humiliation. I'm not condemnit it; to each it's own. But, I hate embarrassment so viscerally that it is just impossible for me to get my head around actually getting a sexual charge out of being humiliated or degraded.
Al:
DeleteI was using the term "humiliation" in the sense of "extreme embarrassment;" extreme embarrassment for your behavior / transgression / faults, in front of your wife, not any other person or any public context.
I meant that sometimes a husband simply does not correctly perceive the seriousness of his behavior. That it is necessary for the wife to verbally "drive the point home," in a very emotional sense; Which may sometimes require certain levels of ridicule or mockery of the "behavior" (not the man), for the husband to fully perceive the seriousness of the situation. (I hope this is what Aunt Kay meant with her suggestion to wives to "sometimes . . . humiliate [the husband]".)
BTW: I can remember only two occasions over the past twenty years when my own wife resorted so such strong "put/push downs" against my behavior (not me as a person). But yes, I, as a person, "felt humiliation" in front of her for my misconduct. IT HURT, EMOTIONALLY, A LOT! However, in those two cases, I think it did serve a useful purpose in driving home the seriousness with which my wife perceived my behavior.
(NO: I do not get any sort of erotic-charge from degradation nor humiliations. Basic theories of domination/submission "dynamics" seem to partly explain the erotic effect on some men. I don't need that to truly feel my wife's power over me.)
Al:
DeleteI seem to remember you, or possibly Dan, mentioning that you were the author of one or more of the "real person" or "fictional stories" that Aunt Kay posted on her website.
Can you remind which essay(s) were written by you?
-- Thanks
Al authored "Even More," probably my favorite story on the DWC website.
DeleteTom wrote: "But why is this more humiliating than an over the knee spanking? I do not consider it so."
ReplyDeleteThe feeling that a slap is humiliating per se (and more so than a spanking on the rear) is obviously a subjective point of view, and of course, opinions will vary - but culturally I would say that most would view a slap in the face as intended to humiliate (a quick Google search should verify that) whereas a spanking is intended to discipline or punish. This is not to say that the general cultural view would necessarily apply to any given DD couple. --al
Regarding the "slap in the face," doesn't any "humiliation" have much more to do with whether other, third parties observe the interaction, rather than the person who performs the slap.
DeleteAs I recall, "humiliation" means ("dictionary") "extreme embarrassment" of "diminishment" in "publicly or in front of others/peers." A wife is certainly NOT an "other" NOR a "peer" (in a DD relationship).