Saturday, April 15, 2017

The Forum - Vol. 202 - Too Hard


"Some people have to learn the hard way."

Hello all.  Welcome back to The Forum.  Our weekly gathering of men and women who are in, or interested in being in, Domestic Discipline or Female Led Relationships.

I hope you all had a great week.  I added a comment to last week's topic that addressed a real life spanking I received last week.   I don't do that a lot, but this one raised an issue that I thought might make a good topic, because this one may have forced us to think a little bit more about how she can be the most effective in bringing about what we both want, which is making me feel genuinely repentant about what I've done and really changing behavior. 

From the beginning, we have taken Domestic Discipline seriously.  Though it clearly has erotic overtones, it isn't part of a kinky game for us.  We have a lot of commenters on here, with relationships that seem to run the gamut from spanking as "funishment," i.e. not really discipline at all, to someone like Fred for whom it is pure discipline with no real erotic or D/s overtones.  On that spectrum, until a year or so ago we were pretty close to Fred's end of the spectrum. DD was more of an event than a lifestyle, and there wasn't a real fundamental change in the power structure.  That has changed this year, with DD more of one tool in a broader FLR lifestyle.  But, the goal really did remain to make me pay a price for bad behavior such that I would be less likely to do it again.

My earliest exposure to Domestic Discipline reinforced that the starting place regarding severity should be, "The harder you spanking him, the more he will love you for it."  And, I still believe there is a lot of truth in that. I also believe that if it isn't really hard, and designed to push him not only to his limits but somewhat beyond them, then is it really punishment?  If it's something you can easily take, then how are you really being punished?
This year, however, I began to have a glimmer of doubt about the "harder is always better" premise.  The doubt was a result of real experience.  Despite doing this for over a decade, one thing I have never yet been able to do is get to a real catharsis, where I just let it go and cry.  Many long-term readers know that tears are something of a fixation for me where DD is concerned, probably because I think it would be good for me to get there, and so far I just can't find the right prescription to to do it.  I do think that severity plays a role in it, and that the instrument needs to be effective enough and the spanking long enough for there to be any hope of reaching the threshold for real tears.  While I've always known that was only part of the prescription, however, it has been only recently that I started seeing the extent to which it not only is not sufficient, it may actually impede the process.

Over the last year, I think we have gone about as far as we can on the "hard instruments" piece of this, and it's really that part that I am rethinking.  Last year I bought three different rubber straps, which I've talked about  in some prior posts.  Two of them in particular are just incredibly, severely painful.  If anything could take me to a point of tears, you would think those would do it.  Yet, I started to suspect that they not only weren't getting me closer, but were but were actually impeding that cathartic, let it all go point of sobbing that I've been both terrified of and morbidly fascinated by for years.  The problem is, those tools hurt so much, that I just cannot give into the process and reach any point of actual submission or surrender when she is strapping me with them.  My mind becomes so singly fixated on just trying to get through it, that there is just no way for me to give in.  I not only do not surrender, I become more resistant to surrendering.  

I really noticed this during our spanking last week. I had gone into with a very conscious intent to be truly repentant, surrendering to a spanking I truly deserved.  She began with her favorite leather strap, and she showed no mercy with it.  It hurt a lot, and I was trying really hard to just give in to the whole experience and NOT take it like a man.  I really felt like I was getting close to being able to just let go and start sobbing.  But, then she switched to one of the rubber straps.  The sharpness of the pain was so much worse, my resistance just skyrocketed.  There was just no way to mentally do anything but resist.  She then went to the thinnest of our three rubber straps, and it too hurt like hell but also wrapped around to catch my hip as much as my bottom. When she switched the side from which she was swinging, she discovered that the end of the strap had been literally cutting into the side of my hip, which brought the whole session to a close.

That session verified for both of us that the notion of severity and 'how much is enough" has some nuances.  I do believe that a disciplinary spanking does need to be more than I can take, but it may be as much or more about duration than severity of each swat.  For me, there seems to be some sweet spot where it hurts a lot, but not so much that my defenses become impossible to surmount.

Any thoughts on this?  Do your spankings reach a point where it just too much to bear?  When that happens, is reaching that state good in that it is at that point that you actually give in and surrender or hit that point of total catharsis or submission? Or, does "take it like a man" kick in so strongly that you can't overcome it?  Are there tools you have used that you have determined really are just too much for a disciplinary spanking such that they become counterproductive? 

I hope you all have a great week. If you are new to our Forum, please visit our Guestbook (tab above) and take a moment to tell us about yourself and your Domestic Discipline or FLR lifestyle or aspirations.

24 comments:

  1. I share your idea that harder or severe is sometimes distracting. I also am looking for catharsis in my spanking experiences. I feel catharsis afterwards quite a bit, old memories come up; feelings of deeper love and attachment well up from deep inside my soul in the aftermath of a sound spanking. I remembered yesterday that a stern nun aroused me in 4th grade. Spanking has been very emotionally healing for me.

    When I feel the greatest sense of catharsis, to the point of being a bit weepy, I am involved in a long spanking, have no control, like being held, and am not really even there in a way. It's like I transcended to another time. My current 50plus year old self has too many layers of ego to let go with a major shift. Good luck friends, rcb.

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    1. Hi Bill. Your second-to-last sentence really resonates with me. It is, at the end of the day, all about overcoming or surrendering those ego needs. I know that the main reason I haven't cried is because I am just too embarrassed to do it, and my ego rejects it. Though it is not like she has never seen me cry before. Sappy country songs can get me every time.

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  2. I'm always spanked with a wooden bathbrush and always past tears. It always breaks the skin, but that never stops the spanking. What does stop the spanking, is what she calls my 'physical and emotional reaction when over her knee'. When I'm trembling, kind of desperate and tears are flowing, I might get a dozen hard whacks more and that's it. She has become an expert spotting this point and I trust her completely. A spanking takes two. If the chemistry between spanker and spankee is right, the experience can be fantastic. If that is not right, I suppose the impliment and amount of pain is secondary.

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    1. The bath brush is also part of my wife's usual arsenal, and it sometimes breaks the skin, but only minimally.

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  3. I, of course, have no voice when J. (or N. before her) decides how sternly I should be chastised, but even though the "sessions" can be long and painful, I never felt that they were "excessive" - let alone undeserved, but neither do I believe that "The harder you spank him, the more he will love you for it"
    I love my wife whether she spanks me or not.

    L.

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    1. I don't know about "love her for it," but I do feel more respect for her the more strict and stern she is, including to some extent the hardness of the spanking

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  4. How hard is not the concern, it is afterwards that is mine concern. Going to church after a spanking, sitting and not trying to squirm is hard to do, my wife feels it is a part of the punishment. The hairbrush is always used, and if I had to say the hardest spanking I got was visiting her best friend out of town. I said somethings I should not have said and once back in the hotel my bare bottom was soundly spanked that sitting was hard for a couple of days.

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  5. We talked about severity the other day. I'm a firefighter / medic. I'm a little over weight and out of shape. I complain all the and say I'm going to do something about it. Dev said she's tired of hearing about it and going to " motivate " me. You all know where this is heading. She's spanked me MANY times over the years and I've done ok with them. Only a couple were super bad. She said on Wednesday she's going to give me the spanking of a lifetime. One I would never want to get again. This sets the bar. We will have periodic check ins. If there is improvement all is good. No improvement or a negative slide will result in another extremely hard spanking. She said she isn't angry and I'm not in trouble it's just " business ". This sounded fine last Friday but changing the diet and working out isn't so easy. She has this one heavy hairbrush I'm sure she will use. It's black ivory. I think it has a name ? We've never tried anything like this before and I'm dreading Wednesday. I know it's for my own good and all but I'm kinda hoping she'll forget.

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    1. Thanks, JR. I have many of those "I just hope she forgets" moments. Good luck with the weight loss. My problem with weight loss is I've that not only are changing habits hard, but as I've aged I've found that I change them and still see little effect. I used to be able to make a few changes, like eliminating sugar, and the pounds would strip off. No longer.

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  6. “The harder you spank, the more he will love you for it.” How many of us found this quote somewhere along the path? We each take away something different, yet seemingly share something in common too, especially where the sentiment expressed is concerned. Interesting the various perspectives on it, colored no doubt by whether you see spanking as something that shames, or see it as something fundamentally positive.

    My own is that it resonates because there is a basic truth reflected and it has little to do with a desire or need to be spanked to excess or harshly beaten. I’ve always felt it more reflected the desire for a spanking relationship to be real, founded on a mutual and deeply felt affection. We want our spankings to be authentic; capable of making an indelible, meaningful impression on us physically where our bottoms are concerned, mentally where our heads are concerned, and emotionally where our hearts are concerned. The sense for me is that the more authentic and natural a romantic spanking relationship becomes, the more intimately we become connected to the amazing woman whose lap we are over.

    Tex

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    1. Wow, Tex that is beautifully written - and absolutely true. I want to give myself to my "amazing woman" in a way most people can't understand, and to have her push me beyond what I think I can handle. Sharing a disciplinary experience makes us stronger and deepens our bond.
      CrimsonKing

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    2. The desire for authenticity does seem to be a big thing for some of us in this lifestyle. We are attracted to "real" spankings for "real" offenses as part of our "real" relationships. It's one of the factors that I think distinguishes DD from BDSM. For me, it plays out even in my tastes in DD-oriented art. The drawings I find most attractive are those in which the Disciplinary Wife looks like an actual wife -- not some leather clad dominatrix.

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    3. Here I stayed off your blog and took down the one I had, and you went chasing me to another blog to publicly insult me for posting as "Anonymous" in a post where you yourself were "Anonymous." I would've expected better from you Danny.

      I saw your tough guy post about suing people over infringing your copyrights. Please do so. Some lucky lawyer is going get to depose you or examine you at trial and watch your anger cause you to completely melt down and implode. Plus, he'll get to depose your wife and have all sorts of fun with her. I hope you really follow through on that. Federal litigation is super fun. You don't think I know that because you think I spend all day on these sites. Keep thinking that.

      Here's one thing you don't get: I don't really care if the comments get published. I was talking to Kathy. She was and is the audience. Whether anyone else sees anything is irrelevant. I wanted a woman who calls herself "Christian" to really consider that after forcing her husband to swallow magazine pages.

      Cruelty is what I abhor, not femdom, be it real or simulated. Except in your case. I can see where your wife absolutely would want to beat the shit out of you as often as possible and don't begrudge her it. You are not a nice person.

      Now, can we go back to leaving each other the fuck alone or are you hellbent on causing problems when I was leaving you and your blog alone for so long?

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    4. How are you doing Gravano? Though, given your mommy issues, I think I'm going to start calling you Norman.

      Actually, I didn't "chase" you anywhere. You post at one time or another on pretty much every blog that mine has a link to, so it would be pretty hard not to run into you.

      I also know know don't spend all day on these sites. You also spend a large amount of time watching spanking porn, as I saw your profile on Spankingtube after I ran a Google search looking for Gravano. Under number of videos viewed, it said 5,000+. Five thousand?? How do you find time to troll people's blogs?

      Yes, you can take satisfaction in my wife beating the shit out of me, because without even knowing you, I am very confident you couldn't. It's one thing I find immensely frustrating about the anonymity of blog world. Every loud mouth tough guy wannabe -- which includes many lawyers like yourself -- can pop off with total impunity. It must be nice, right? Back on the playground you probably got your ass stomped regularly, but now you can post nasty things about women all day long without anyone being able to do anything about it.

      Actually, in my opinion you are the best candidate for the person who stole Kathy's blog content and tried to publish a book claiming it as your own. You have an established history of stealing other people's blog content. You did it with my stuff several times, posting it to Fetlife and pretending it was your own, then copying much of it verbatim into the blog you started and later took down. You also started posting on Kathy's blog shortly before her content was stolen. And, after she discovered the theft, someone with a legal background and a writing style very much like your own posted a series of comments trying to talk her out of filing suit because of the horrors of being deposed, her husband being deposed, etc. In other words, exactly what you just tried to threaten me with. You admit you don't like Kathy, so you obviously weren't trying to talk her out of it because you care about her well-being.

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    5. BTW, for those lawyers reading this blog, no offense meant. :-) Some of my best friends are lawyers. But, it is a profession that seems particularly prone to people who like flexing their air muscles and talking tough without consequences. It's actually a great profession for bullies to hide in, because they can behave like complete horses asses, but if one of their opponents ever gets fed up and gives them the thrashing they deserve, it is the opponent who is going to lose his license. It's also interesting that many litigators do see what they do as some "tough guy" thing, while in reality all they really do is write and talk. Write and talk. Not sure what exactly is so "tough" about sitting at your computer writing a brief or talking to or at someone. I grew up in a part of the country where physical violence was not only an acceptable means of conflict resolution, between adult males it was about the ONLY acceptable means. While it had its drawbacks, it did mean that people were slightly less prone to talking tough unless they were prepared to get flattened. It's why internet trolls are such disgusting creatures. They can be bullies all day long, and never pay any real price for it. It's a wonderful set up for the physically cowardly.

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  7. I also do not cry when I'm disciplined.
    I believe that this is not the goal of most disciplinarians.
    My wife disciplines me to correct my treatment with her.The strategy she chose was the spank discipline.

    But belt hits is not the only option. For me the embarrassment is a punishment as great as the pain and she knows it.

    Is very difficult for a man:
    1- Be ordered to take off all clothing and stand up listening to the reasons that I will be disciplined.
    2- stand in a position that facilitates discipline
    3- During the discipline hear the wife say that I will receive this whenever I deserve.

    So tears are not mandatory.

    Well

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    1. Thanks, Well. I think even for men who have cried from spankings, it is not something that happens often.

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  8. My wife and I have been doing DD for about 9 years. In those years I actually was bought to tears or cried about three times. I think what did it for me was knowing how much I had hurt her and I could hear it in her voice as she was busting my ass. I have been spanked harder many times but when I know I did something that has hurt her it does make me feel bad.
    Frank

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    1. Hi Frank. I'm sure that feeling genuine remorse plays an important part in getting the tears to flow.

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  9. Dan
    I can safely say that Anna has never punished me at any time for anything other that behaviors of mine
    that we both agreed needed to be changed. What I see when punished in Anna's eyes is her desire to
    create a home and environment that " her boys", which I confess she includes me when she says that,
    will learn to be men that anyone woman can be proud of. If that includes DD so that I set a better example for my sons, I accept it as my duty to both sons and wife.
    Like Frank, it hurts me to see my behavior has hurt Anna in any way.
    Peter

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    1. Hi Peter. I totally agree with this. Honestly, it's why part of me wishes we had not been so secretive about the DD aspect of our lives. I am not convinced it would have been the worst thing in the world for ours to have seen a strong woman doling out real consequences. It might have taught some strong lessons about accountability and cause and effect.

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  10. I Peter, do jour sons know when you are punished?

    Doumik

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  11. Dan ... As usual, another excellent post/topic. I have long wanted (at first secretly then telling Mistress) for my spankings to be whatever only Mistress wants them to be, and that I feel she will usually "yield" to soon to my moaning and writhing "in pain". It's one of those "be careful what you wish for" things, but I believe that one of the anchor points of any FLR/FLM relationship is the willingness and ability to trust one's Mistress to decide the level of correction/pain that she deems necessary. For me/Us, I do know that Mistress K. continues to marinate in her role as Mistress and Female leader, her confidence grows, her knowledge grows as she gains more actual experience and as such, she gets more and more comfortable in not being concerned about what she is doing or not doing, and how it affects me. After all, it is all bout her, right?

    I know that she has it in her to take me past a point in which I would like the spanking/punishment to stop, and confidently continue to the point she determines the punishment will stop. I know this because when the infraction is especially egregious in her opinion, I am required to masturbate to orgasm immediately preceding getting what will then become one of the harshest, most painful spankings I have ever received .... regardless of the amount of pleading for her to reconsider.

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