Saturday, January 12, 2019

The Club - Meeting #281 - Ebbs and Flows

“A rule sometimes broken is better than no rule.” – Herman Wouk

Hello all.  Welcome back to the Disciplinary Couple’s Club.  Our weekly gathering of men and women who are in, or interested in being in, Domestic Discipline relationships.

First off, welcome again to Elizabeth and Jeanne. Thank for you for participating, and this is an ongoing invitation for more Disciplinary Wives to participate.  Of course, the possibility that always worries me is that some of the “women” who drop by here are not, in fact, women and are, instead, spanko men pretending to be women.  Our little pest Sean/Jack often pretends to be a woman, somehow missing that inane posts are inane posts that reveal it is him whether he’s calling himself Sean, Jack or Susan.  And, I’ve had a few indications lately that even some of our longer term posters might not be what they seem.  It’s disappointing, and part of me wishes this blog was set up more like Aunt Kay’s DWC, where the website was public but real participating hinged on admission by Aunt Kay, which might include a short phone call to verify the bona fides of the participants. But, that would, of course, blow my own anonymity, which I’m not really ready to do at this stage.  So, I hope for 2019 we can foster some genuine conversations and that the people engaging in them are being more or less genuine about who they are in terms of gender and disciplinary role, what kind of relationship they are really in, etc. Hope triumphs over experience . . . 

In addition to the live trolls like Sean, I seem to have picked up some renewed interest from the annoying automated spam bots.  I've been getting inundated with the same stupid fake comments that became a problem last year, involving generic praise for the blog that then tries to lure you into some kind of response or link.  One I particularly loved over the holidays said something to the effect of, "Hi. Thank you for such an inspiring post.  Can I share this on my own blog, as my readers share some of the same interests and I would like to share with them your compelling piece." It was posted on my notice that the usual Saturday post would be delayed by a day.

I hope you all enjoyed the first full week of the new year.  Mine was an instant wake-up call and reminder about the general futility of planning anything.  Without going into details that might be too revealing, I came into the year with a game plan for delegating more and pulling back a little on my own hands-on work, both because I feel like I’m coming up on the stage of life where I want and need to do that, and because I need to make room for the people under me to develop and grow and move up.  So, I had this whole plan to get together with my lieutenants and lay out that goal, but one of them beat me to it with an announcement of a major move in his own life that threw all my plans for his role out the window.  A day later, there was an organizational announcement that may result in me taking on a different role that will require a major time commitment, more travel, and generally a faster pace in 2019 than I had in 2018, which is exactly the opposite of where I saw things going.


Worse, these developments both conspired to cause me to very quickly blow one of my New Years resolutions.  I had committed mentally to throwing myself into one of the latest fads – Dry January.  No alcohol for an entire month.  At first, my prospects for living up to it seemed surprisingly good.  Even though we were on vacation for the first several days of the new year, I stayed away from alcohol despite a confluence of opportunity and temptation. Then, when I got back to work along came these two developments from below and above, both of which were made known to me by someone walking into my office at 5:00 pm, announcing they needed to talk about something, and suggesting we grab a drink to do so.  Now, I could have explained that I was happy to join them but would be nursing a “near beer,” but particularly in one case it just didn’t seem appropriate, because the conversation was with someone who I’ve been close to for many years, and he clearly needed to talk genuinely and openly.  Having a beer together is how we have always done that.  So, although I’m not wild about breaking my resolution, sometimes abstract rules and plans have to yield to the needs of real people in real relationships.  Or, at least, that’s my story and I’m sticking to it.

 Paradoxically, despite tripping up on that resolution right at the outset of the new year, and despite 2019 seemingly heading off in a very different direction than I had planned, I’m feeling pretty good about things.  I’ve been exercising regularly. My diet has been pretty consistently healthy.  My strength and overall health are quite a bit better than this time last year.  I’ve always been a chronic insomniac and, yet, I’ve been sleeping surprisingly well lately.  Part of this seemingly well-balanced internal state is probably the after-glow of a vacation, but some is also attributable to conscious choices, like meditating more and trying to take every day slightly less seriously.  It seems to be working.



So, what does all this have to do with Domestic Discipline?  Perhaps not much.  Except that, my perceived need for discipline and boundaries and giving up control are inversely correlated with how calm and balanced I feel at that particular point in time.  There are kink aspects to this thing we do and for many of us there also are compulsions that go deeper, including the need to give up control, the need to have some external restraints imposed on your behavior.  Where your motivations fall on that spectrum, between the desire for kink and the desire to be taken under someone’s control and made to behave, probably determines whether you see yourself as a “spanko,” a “submissive,” or as a “disciplined husband.” 

I’ve never contended that this desire of mine that I recognized pretty late in life—well into my 30s—is “normal” or reflective of a well-balanced mental state.  Quite the opposite.  My personality has always been intense and lacking in balance.  While I discovered DD late in line, it was kind of like finding a new drug to treat a long-running illness.  I am pretty open and accepting of the fact that my driving need for accountability and boundaries is not “normal” or “healthy,” though in a weird way the discipline itself does promote better mental and emotional health, because Domestic Discipline  is for me a kind of psychological medication that balances out what are some fundamentally unbalanced personality traits.  My friend Jane over at https://ashrewtamed.blogspot.com has characterized those of us with this bent as having somewhat “disordered” personalities.  Her view is that being disciplined and subjected to someone’s authority provides some of us a means of ordering our emotions and mental processes that, for whatever reason, we can’t quite sustain on our own most of the time.

Which is kind of where I am going with this week’s post.  Ebbs and flows in our interest in all things both kink and disciplinary inevitably is going to ebb and flow depending on what else we have going on in our lives, the relative level of distractions and, frankly, our hormonal cycles and on a variety of other factors.  (Yes, we men do have hormonal cycles that affect our overall level of sexual desire, kinky thoughts, etc.)  For me, it also depends a lot on how balanced I feel at that point in time.  Last year was kind of a meat grinder, so my desire to be kept in check ran very high for much of the year.  Right now, I don’t feel like I need it as much.

But, and here is a serious kicker, now that I have consented to this kind of relationship, the level of intensity isn’t just up to me.  Anne has her own desires, needs and motivations.  She may very well be interested in ramping things up, and that’s fine, particularly with respect to the “kinky” aspects of DD and FLR, as opposed to “real” discipline.  Right now, when my mental state is in better balance, I don’t feel a compelling need for her to impose boundaries, but that doesn’t mean I wouldn’t still find it very sexy for her to do so.  And, while right now my behavior is pretty well in check because my mind and emotions are in good shape, that doesn’t mean I might not stray and break some rules or do something to piss her off.

I could ask whether you go through ebbs and flows in your interest in Domestic Discipline, but I would be shocked if any of you do not.  The question for this week is, do you see any patterns in the triggers for those ebbs and flows? For the recipients, are there times you need discipline more than others?  What role does being stressed out over work play?  I can see it going both ways.  When I am under the gun and trying to get a bit of work out the door, discipline is the last thing I need as stepping away from work at an intense point in time may just make things worse.  However, when work is just chronically stressful, discipline and boundaries are very welcome and necessary.  For the Disciplinary Wives, are there times you are particularly into your role, and others where you lose interest, and are there particular things that trigger those ebbs and flows in the interest level?

I hope you have a great week.

43 comments:

  1. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    1. I deleted this to correct a glaring typo. LOL. I re-posted below.

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  2. This is a good question and it made me realize something that could be considered counter-intuitive.....or just plain weird: the desire for discipline to ground or balance me comes most intensely NOT when I am way off kilter, which would make more sense, but as I return to some more balanced state from other factors and begin to see the havoc or damage my recent behavior has had.

    So despite believing that DD balances me, that's not entirely true.....at least as far as sequence of events. It's more like the DD addresses the guilt AFTER I come to my own calmer realizations. Trying to 'force' me to see my fault with threats of DD do nothing but make me dig in deeper.

    However, once the past behavior is then addressed, the effects of physical discipline act as a further deterrent or preventative by anchoring the beginnings of the balance I was already heading towards ob my own with the reinforcement and support from the authority figures checking my behavior.

    Perhaps this is why I am so resistant to and critical of tales from others who insist that a Top using DD handles things in the moment and sort of forcibly brings about recognition of culpability in the miscreant. Not me. And not some others (male and female) I have 'met' over the decades doing this. And when certain Tops say things like "well you wouldn't say that once I had you over my lap" it makes me laugh. If I am not prepared to see my own fault a spanking is not going to magically make it happen. (Maybe the threat of blinding, or the amputation of limbs might get me to back down even if I think I'm right, but not getting smacked on the butt...no matter how hard.)

    So I guess the answer to this week's question for me is: the trigger is the beginning of the pendulum swing back to center after having swung too far in the wrong direction, and not the wild swing itself.

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    1. It's an interesting distinction. For me, when I am unbalanced and doing a poor job of controlling myself, I need someone else to exercise that control over me. Basically, I need someone else to enforce the behavioral guardrails. Like you, at that point I may or may not be capable of seeing my behavior as needing to be managed, but it does nonetheless. Not necessarily by a spanking, but by someone laying down the law. But, separate and apart from that is needing some kind of accountability or "penance" to be paid after I myself recognize that I've been in the wrong.

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    2. I suppose it's a matter of degree for me because i can relate to that too.....except it only works in situations where I might be heading in the wrong direction but when confronted it's more of a no-brainer that "oh yeah, Honey, you're right". This happens in situations where it's easy or obvious to see the truth in what is being pointed out to me. And in these cases I guess it's preemptive so that I'm prevented from ending up at the apex of the pendulum swing.

      Funny, but if you think about that, the trigger still occurs in the same spot, the only difference being whether that spot in the arc is exploited on the way up the swing or happens on the way back.

      (Great topic for self-examination and not one usually discussed.)

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    3. And, don't get me wrong; when the boundaries are laid down and I'm in the midst of it, it's not like I enjoy it, see the wisdom of it, etc. No. I usually comply, but reluctantly and resentfully. But, that's the way it was as kids, no? No one liked being made to comply with rules, and in the moment we seldom saw they were for our own good. Hell, it was often years later that the rules and boundaries were recognized to have served a good purpose.

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    4. I can relate to often not seeing the "good purpose" of Aunt Kay's discipline right at the time. But then being super-thankful for the results later on.

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  3. My interest definitely wans when I am tired. Also if I think about the weirdness of it. "Why should I be punishing you like a naughty little boy? GROW UP!"

    My interest rises when his behavior has irritated me and I really want it to change. Then I swing the paddle more enthusiastically and even might get antsy for Friday night to arrive.

    His interest seems to be constant. He always gets an erection as he undresses for our review.
    Elizabeth

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    1. Hi Elizabeth. I think I may be in a minority on this, but I like the "weirdness" of it all. I'm a contrarian to my core, and I don't have a lot of interest in doing what everyone else is doing. From time to time, people here express the desire that DD become more prevalent and openly accepted. I don't really share that desire and like that this little "club" is more than a little exclusive.

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    2. To me, the weirdness is not that it is rare. It is that I am functioning as my husband's parent as his disciplinarian, and that is not the traditional or expected role of a wife ... and maybe it is a little bit "off" in some respect. That's one reason that we keep our DD relationship to ourselves (with rare exception). Plus it seems weird to me that I have spanked my husband way more times than all of my children combined.

      Here is what I have come to: Don't think about it so much. Don't be concerned whether it is off or not. I know it works for our marriage, and that's all I need to know. Turn off the doubt and pick up the paddle.
      Elizabeth

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    3. "Don't think about it so much. Don't be concerned whether it is off or not. I know it works for our marriage, and that's all I need to know."

      Wisdom that can be applied to much of life.

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  4. Dan,

    While respecting your own personal self evaluation indicating "poor performance" for the last year, I want to offer congratulations for how much you did accomplish. It read as pretty darn good to me.

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    1. Thanks, Tomy. I appreciate the kind words. It was an odd year in a lot of ways. It definitely won't go down as one of my more successful on the career front, and there were no major upward moves on any front. But, there was incremental progress in several areas, with career/job being the one big exception. My dissatisfaction probably does say more about the unbalanced way in which I focus more on career than just about anything else, than about anything inherent to 2018.

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  5. Acknowledging "small gains" is the only real path toward sustained progress. Wish you a more balanced year based on the wisdom you gained from the last one.

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    1. Except the Zen guys say enlightenment happens in the blink of an eye when you aren't trying. Damn paradoxes!

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  6. This is Elizabeth's Frank. My interest goes way down while I am getting my butt blistered. How could I have possibly asked her to do this? But shortly afterwards my interest rises, if you know what I mean. And the anticipation on the buildup to Friday is quite a turn-on for me.

    In all seriousness, I know I am a much better man as a spanked husband. Improvements I would have great difficulty accomplishing are way easier with Elizabeth's strong right arm behind me.

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    1. "My interest goes way down while I am getting my butt blistered."

      Ditto.

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    2. Yes, I always seriously questioned my sanity for wanting to be in a DWC relationship during spankings

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  7. I have found myself trying to "outsmart" my hormones...normal people call this "self-aware".

    One way I evaluate "is this a good idea" I try to reflect on when I do or dont think it is a good idea.

    For example, "do I really want discipline or is it a sexual outlet" is a question I struggled with. Using previous experience I applied it to this model:
    1. Is it something I still want even 10 minutes after orgasm?
    2. Is it something I still want one day after orgasm?
    3. Is it something I still want 3 or four days after?
    If it is yes to all theee then it is some kind of need since I am in 3 differant hormone states. If 2 it is for the last 2 maybe. But if I only want it after several days of no orgasm I get suspicious it is just the hormones.
    My wife understands this scale and it has been good for evaluating where my "disorders" fall. It works for us as a point of conversation and evaluation.

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    1. While I have never denied that there is an erotic energy underlying, or maybe overlaying is the more correct term, my need for DD, I'm not sure that my sex drive is really very closely tied to my DD needs. If anything, they seem to be inversely correlated. Right now, because my I seem to be in a more balanced state than usual and also better rested and more energetic, my interest in sex is relatively high, while my perceived "need" for DD is relatively low. And, while erotic energy may accompany my DD need, it seems to be the latter that drives the former, not vice versa. At the risk of getting diverted into a discussion similar to the debate between me and KD last week, there is an overlap between the energy that drives my erotic needs and my DD needs, but that doesn't really mean that one causes the other, and they seem to move up and down pretty independently of each other.

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    2. And, 10 minutes after an orgasm, there is not much of anything I want to do . . . other than take a nap.

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    3. I said 10 because by 20 I am asleep.
      Joking aside to explain better. The goal is to separate out OS this just a hormone reaction or something else. Each of these has three distinct case. A lot of dopamine after sex, "normal" the next day, and build up of testosterone or the brain craving dopamine after a few days. So it gives a data point (not a conclusion) on "do I really want x" or do I really want dopamine?"

      I have also found this helpful in dealing with others outside this by monitoring cortisol and adrenaline triggers in addition to above. I found taking an adrenal health supplement completely changed how I deal with stress at work after years of "doing the same thing".

      Just my 2 cents. For a data point though the "need for discipline" did transcend all these, that is one of the reasons we dont just spank but have other discipline actions we take.

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    4. I am becoming more convinced that a lot of physical ailments and anxiety is because many of us are just maxed out on cortisol. I am pretty convinced a lot of my insomnia problems are related to cortisol spikes and problems regulating that hormone.

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    5. Take a look at "cortisol health" from LESlabs...one a day changed my life.

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  8. I agree that hormones and just the passage of time since the last spanking influence the felt need on the part of the spankee. But in an established ongoing DD relationship it is largely the women who ultimately decides to spank or not spank. Even if a guy “asks” for a spanking she is going to decide and if self-reporting is required she is the arbiter of how that actually works. So the “ebb and flow” to a great extent depends on her. In our relationship my wife has almost from the beginning had the authority to take my pants down or order me to do so “anytime, anyplace for any reason”. That any time, any place for any reason has actually become a kind of mantra she often uses during actual discipline. In practice however that authority has usually been used with great discretion and even forbearance (about fairness, always an issue with her). Periodic “crack downs” (an interesting phrase) seem to fit our rhythm. The one exception to all this is that any challenge to her authority triggers an immediate and memorable spanking. I was reckless enough early in the relationship to do this a few times and learned how serious she was about that. She likes to remind me that she “controls my bum”, and make me agree with that. So if I wanted to get a spanking I could simply refuse to agree or contradict her. But the hormones will be running pretty hot before I am crazy enough to do that
    Alan

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    1. I totally get how that could be the case, but I don't think it fits my own pattern. My need for DD seems to have way more to do with the overall level of stress and anxiety I have in my life and doesn't seem to really depend much on time between spankings.

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    2. I won't pretend to understand this but it provides even more evidence that the spanking interest has multiple roots that vary across individuals. There is no one paddle that fits all
      Alan

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  9. Dan
    Since Anna has simplified things it seems to be working. I confess I crave the discipline but at same time never
    wanted to admit that. We agreed on sets of rules, mostly had to due with my drinking, and other selfish acts.
    In other words following through on any one of a hundred acts. Pick up boys, fold the laundry, etc.
    Now she asks me each nite before bed " Have i anything to report". The first week earned me total of 100
    swats and then an hour in corner. Before bed asking forgiveness and showing my devotion orally to Anna.
    It works! I whine and this first week brought me to tears. Realized the pain wasnt all about the sting of a belt or paddle. It was my true remorse at failing at theA.B.C.'s. The hour in the corner naked is hardest.
    Anna's Peter

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  10. Dan-

    Happy New Year! It's been some time since I've posted...but have always remained a faithfully weekly follower. The reason I've stayed on the sideline is kind of related to your opening comment this week about perceived "pretenders". Honestly I was starting to feel self conscious that I'm one who truly has been working for some time with wife towards getting her actively engages so as long a process this has been for us we're not (yet) actually part of a practicing couple.

    I can really relate to the "ebb and flow" not just with myself but also with my wife's receptiveness. At times she is very open to the idea, we have good conversations about it and she even can get playful about spanking and discipline, teasing or making good comments to me. It's in these periods I have gotten the few spankings I've received so far... then at times it's like a switch has been flipped and she has almost a disdain for the idea. I had assumed it was always "life related" (kids and real life stuff) the idea of hormonal impact never occurred to me but man that makes a lot of sense.

    Now the reason for my coming out of hiding and posting. I was going to reach out directly to ask your opinion on what is no doubt a stupid question, that's also why I waited till later in the week to post...but with "the Wives" recently participating I thought they might have some good input, because they were newbies at some time as well. A concept I actually picked up from conversations here, to try and help my wife...we are coming up w/ just a couple "rules" basically around me being too disrespectful or rude...and something you can relate to, when i go too far overboard and as a result wake up REALLY hungover. Since it's hard for her to take charge and decide a spanking is due and then initiate the spanking actually getting administered, we thought it would help to have the punishment "predetermined" so there's no question about what is to happen. Her's the silly question. Like most new wives apparently her big hangup is still "hurting me" ....she now has a very nice hard wood paddle (Merry Christmas). Of course I know it's trial and error but .....I'd be curious to hear what suggestions you have for where I should expect her to start??? What should we determine as the punishment as in literally number of HARD spanks? We need it to be enough that it would be a true disciplinary spanking BUT I'm hyper sensitive that it's not to much as to freak her out and have her pull away again. She still gets a little unnerved by my natural reaction to hard smacks and a but freak her out by my skin color turning (I'm fair skinned and at this point get extremely red with purple streaking pretty darn easy. You guys that have been doing this for some time will laugh but as a starting point....I was thinking 2 sets of 25 with short break between the 2. Any comment would be appreciated.
    Thanks all for being here for the guys like us....working towards this being fully adopted and integrated into a long term marriage.

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    1. Hi Darren. I don't recall exactly the numbers we used when we started, but I think it was something like 10 swats for exceeding a three-drink maximum, PLUS five swats for each drink over three. We also had other offenses that were about 5 swats each. It doesn't sound like a lot, but I still remember gulping very hard the first time it added up to 60 swats. I now can, and regularly do, take much more than that, but back then 60 was a VERY large and intimidating tally.

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    2. This is something we have not talked about much but I remember when she announced a " minimum" of 50 or 75 and I quaked. Today ( we really don't count anymore ) but 150 is probably average or even the minimum. So over time we do become conditioned to a certain level of punishment and probably our wives need to take it up to get compliance ( I can't believe I said that)
      Alan

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    3. Wow.....now I'm actually glad I asked. Maybe it wasn't as stupid a question as i thought it was for where we are in the process. So I'm not far off w 50. I know your wife took very easily to giving you hard whacks. It's going to be a challenge for mine to start really doling it out. I just keep believing that once she finally commits to this she'll get used to it pretty quickly.

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    4. Alan, ours is probably in that same range -- 150 as an average, but probably more like a minimum. It really is amazing how you toughen up over time. In the beginning, 20 with a wooden paddle would leave me very, very bruised. I got a very long and hard spanking two weeks ago and, while it hurt like hell, it left almost no marks the next day.

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    5. When we have done predetermined to help her we used time "5 minutes" for x. 10 minutes with a time out at half way....etc. it seemed to resonate with both of us versus a count. She can then variable the intensity of the minutes. We dont use it alot but is part of the system. Last time we used it I got 5 minutes alternating between a wood paddle and rubber twase... I was sore enough for about three days that the message was clear.

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  11. A couple suggestions for wives who are concerned about marking their husbands:
    1. Don't start with thick wood. Use a leather paddle or a ping-pong paddle. That can be swung much harder than a bath brush or a school paddle. The marking will be much less.
    2. Let him keep his underwear on. That way she doesn't see what is going on below. She can concentrate on punishing him without the marks being obvious.
    An experienced lurker

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    1. Fellow lurker......Great suggestions especially keeping underwear on!!!! Talk about missing the obvious!
      THANKS

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    2. A caveat to that though -- I would advise keeping underwear on ONLY if using a tool that has pretty minimal impact, like a leather paddle or hairbrush. For anything heavier or harsher, it is important that she be able to see whether she is, in fact, doing any real damage. Being "bare" is actually safer because of the visual feedback.

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  12. Safety is paramount of course and reason enough to never deliver a serious spanking unless the person being spanked is at least bare from the waist down. But beyond that consideration for me is the powerful psychology of being "bare bum" over her lap or over the bed. Only once or twice have I been spanked over underwear (not counting the many smacks received with pants or underpants on as a prelude to spanking). They simply were not effective mentally although at least one with the “big paddle" did burn like crazy. So pain maybe but not discipline unless bared. I will leave it to the psychologist to explain why bare is so powerful but I know the feelings of vulnerability and submission are almost overwhelming once my underpants have been taken down. A switch just goes on and I go into a zone. But that wouldn't happen without them being off.
    Alan

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  13. This topic and its comments are very relevant to me in this very moment. In September of last year (around when we started DD) I started a testosterone replacement therapy cycle. I had my levels tested and they were low, also I was pre-diabetic. Since this was self-administered, I had a choice to make: Be overweight and deal with all the real health risks that go along with that or try steroids online and deal with the risks that go along with that. I'm not simplifying things here, those were my choices. I just didn't have it in me to work full time, be a father of three, be a diligent husband, eat right, and exercise regularly all the while dealing with the fatigue and depression that comes with actually having low testosterone.

    So I took the steroids and within 3 days I felt like a fog had lifted from my head. The numbness I'd been feeling for years slipped away. I was actually being social and talkative again, and then after about a week the physical changes happened. I was a beast in the gym and had a ton of energy. I lost 30 pounds of fat by new year and put on 7 pounds of muscle. I felt like the version of myself before depression and anxiety. The only negative side effect I had was acne.

    The most ironic thing about putting supraphysiological amounts of steroids into my body was that it made me much more patient and much more willing to listen and to submit to discipline.

    But here I am now, 19 days post cycle, and although I don't feel as good as when I was on, I don't feel as bad as before I had started. I'm more muted than numb. I'm not depressed, just a little understated. The big drawback is that I have no desire to go over my wife's knee. I am however still willing to submit to it. I haven't been spanked since the 3rd, and at that time I still had extra T in my body. Ry promised me three days ago that she was going to give me a serious spanking on Friday (tomorrow) to see if it would "bring me back home"... also because I think she just likes to fuck with me sometimes. I didn't argue, but there are no butterflies. While I was on cycle, the spankings were almost therapeutic after 100 swats or so, and I enjoyed everything that happened before and after them. Now I'm not so sure. I hope that there will still be the warmth and feeling of well-being afterward. I just don't know. Guess we'll see tomorrow night, lol.


    Best,
    Ez and Ry

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    1. There is a fascinating podcast on This American Life regarding the effects of testosterone and what a critical role it plays in mood, motivation, etc. Unfortunately, I can't justify doing T supplements. A few years ago, I was having several of the symptoms you mentioned, and the doctors suspected it might be low T. So, they ran a bunch of tests. I still recall the nurse coming to my testosterone score, pausing, and saying: "My, aren't we a manly man?" It was pretty damn funny. I actually attribute it to being a beast in the gym. There is a lot of data showing that your body will make more testosterone if you hit weights really hard, but it has to be big muscle groups like quads, and you have to hit it heavy.

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  14. The only T I care about is the Tea I brew in the morning.

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  15. I've not posted here before, and am an outsider. Your comments regarding finding domestic discipline late in life and likening it to finding a new drug for a long standing illness struck a chord with me, and explained perfectly my own experience. I truly wish it's something I'd found when I was in my 20's, but I think I wasn't ready or mature enough. In fact, it wasn't until a few years ago when I was away on a field assignment, and was online, and came across the topic. I'd never encountered it before. I'd heard of bondage and that sort of thing, never paid attention, but this was different. Female lead relationships, domestic discipline, etc. The idea of this as a component to a life relationship was earthshattering to me, and I felt like I'd just walked out of a cold, dark canyon and found shangrila. It made sense, much like your comment just now has.

    Like a great many men, I'm one of the unwashed frustrated masses, as my wife sees this as a pointless end. She doesn't want to be her husband's mother, and doesn't want to be a dominatrix. I agree. She doesn't want any kind of discipline or pain tied to sex, and I agree. Mostly I agree that there shouldn't be any aspect that she doesn't want. The whole concept is a desire to defer to her, respect her wishes, but the other side of of the coin is that she wishes to forget the whole thing.

    We do occasionally have disciplinary moments. I do wind up in a corner at times, and she does sometimes spank, and so forth. Last time I was home, I got a bar of soap in my mouth, which was interesting. But mostly she isn't interested. I don't think that will change.

    Regarding the topic here; there have been days that have been stressful enough that I asked her for a spanking. I don't enjoy pain at all, and while there's an erotic element to a spanking, that dissolves very quickly when it hurts. Endorphins may account, but there's an element of a disciplinary event that's humiliating to me, painful, but cathartic and theraputic. There are times when I feel like receiving a spanking, which physically I could give myself, but from her. It's different in ways I'm trying to understand, but can't quite wrap my head around. In congruous words like gratitude, love, and intimacy, which shouldn't be related, describe the emotions that I feel at a time like that. It's a time when the psychological and emotional barriers that I've spent a lifetime erecting around me fall down and I'm a hermit crab without a shell for a while. It's those times when she could ask me any question, assign any task, and I'd do it. I'm pliable, open, less of an ass, more honest than I can ever otherwise be. It's in that moment that I think I'm actually who I should be, or at least that's my mind.

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  16. Part of the same line of thought, cropped from before, for length. Sorry for the stream of consciousness.

    The desire for this does flow and ebb, and I don't think it's really hormonal, but something much larger. I'm not a particularly hormonal, nor emotional person. Not a lot moves me. Not much excites me. When I feel like there are expectations on me and penalties that come with them, accountability, and when it's administered, I feel like a real person instead of a number, a cardboard cutout. I feel like I actually matter to the only person to whom I care about mattering: my wife. If she cares and is concerned enough to discipline, to give expectations a full three dimensions with an element of accountability, to me it's a true act of love, and in return I feel profoundly grateful on many levels.

    I've reflected on this a lot and I can only conclude that because she doesn't harbor the same feelings, my view is selfish. She recently asked "why didn't you tell me you were this way before we got married?" The truth is, I wasn't, or at least if these inclinations were in me, I didn't know it. This is my second marriage, and nothing like this was part of the first. In fact, my first wife had a habit of punching my shoulder, something I think was done in her family. My shoulder had bruises, and I told her to stop. Looking back, that could have gone so much differently, and probably should have.

    I don't really have a point, at least not an articulate one, but to say that your post struck a resonant chord, and to say thanks for articulating so perfectly a truth that I'm still trying to understand. It is very much like a cure to a long standing illness, but not really an illness at all. Just an unmet need.

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