The Forum - Vol. 195 - Confronting Reality

“Nothing quite encourages as does one's first unpunished crime.”- Marquis de Sade

Hello all.  Welcome back to the The Forum.  Our weekly gathering of men and women who are in, or interested in being in, a DD or FLR lifestyle.  I hope you all had a great week.

I'll begin by admitting this is one of those weeks I am feeling kind of lazy and uninspired.  I get the feeling that some others feel the same way.  Participation seems to have tapered off a bit, other than the guy I have decided to call OCD Boy who keeps sending me comments about his wife/mother/girlfriend leg locking him during a spanking.   I strongly suspect it is the same OCD Boy who was previously all about his Mother-in-Law, since both seem to have this thing about being made to stand facing a wall.

So, since I am finding a don't have anything in particular I want to say this week, I'll try to recap and extend some themes from the last couple of weeks, and maybe just share a bit more about where my own DD relationship is these days.  When I look at where the conversations have gone, and where I am mentally and emotionally right now, I see a theme emerging around "reality."  Confronting it, managing it, and giving in to it.

A few comments last week touched on the trade-off between making spankings and punishment quick and easy versus making them meaningful and communicative. On one hand were Marissa and Anna who argued that DD takes time and attention if it is to work.  On the other hand you had Darren and me, who did not disagreed but pointed out how insanely busy and distracting ordinary life can be and the extent to which real life can get in the way even for couples who have the best of intentions.  Our concern was that if we make the spanking or punishment event too long or intricate, it is less likely to happen at all.  Marissa and Anna rightly point out, however, that ritual and duration have important roles to play in bringing home and reinforcing the reality of the relationship and of the punishment itself.

On a personal level, I came into this year thinking that, given some changes in our family arrangements, we might have more time to really focus on the DD and FLR aspects of our relationship.  It has not been the sea change that I anticipated, though we are finding a little more time alone for her to deal with issues.  We also did start trying to implement a daily reporting scheme with more immediate "on the spot" spankings, in order to try to uproot some chronic and long-running behavioral problems.  Real-life almost immediately got in the way, however, with me having a series of business trips and my wife having some of her own work distractions.  Setting those challenges aside, however, I am also finding that this idea of daily check-ins that could, if my behavior does not improve, also result in daily spankings, is very intimidating.  Particularly in conjunction with her proclivity for spanking "all out" every time, and with some newer tools that are just incredibly painful.  I am finding that even though I bought those tools with the express intention of ramping up the pain associated with each spanking, and even though I suggested the increased frequency of checking in and spanking to root out the really resistant behavior, I am really struggling to comply fully, with the struggle playing out in how reliably I self-report bad behavior.

Now, I know this is going to bring a hailstorm of criticism raining down along the lines of "If you are not going to submit, then what is the point?"  As I've said before, very easy to say if you are just naturally submissive and compliant, naturally well-behaved for the most part, or if your wife does not spank that hard.  If you happen to have that special combination, however, of stubbornness, willfulness, chronic bad habits or a job that seems to require or encourages certain excesses -- together with a wife who spanks very, very hard -- then something has to give and the temptation is often there to see what you can get away with.  Ideally, what would give is the bad behavior, but I'm finding that it is easier to just kind of slack on the self-reporting and hope that the distractions of our daily life keep her from focusing on my reporting or lack thereof.  It's also just been a particularly hard time to comply with an increasingly strict set of commands, in part because of the work travel I referred to.  It's easier for me to adjust my behavior when I'm just going about my regular job, but traveling very often involves work-related dinners or drinks and long hours, resulting in too much socializing and too little sleep, which makes it more likely that I will skip working out and eat bad food, etc.  One break in the chain of good habits leads to back-sliding in a whole bunch of areas.  That is really what happened this week.

The bottom line is, I know that I deserve one, but I also know I really don't want one and would strongly prefer to get away with something. As I said, I know this is going to lead to the usual chorus of "You just need to submit."  I don't really disagree with it. I know I deserve to be spanked, and I know I just need to take my medicine.

What I am pointing out, however, is that it is sometimes easier said than done.  And while the resistance is undoubtedly counter-productive, in a sense it confirms that we are on the right track.  Because, the resistance and desire to avoid punishment really kick in only once a Domestic Discipline relationship becomes "real," in the sense that it is no longer about some quasi-erotic kink and is really about being punished hard enough, long enough and often enough that he really hopes it will not happen. 

If anything, when I get to this point sometimes where it all does seem too hard to handle, it shows that we are getting to the kind of Domestic Discipline relationship we have said we want, i.e. real punishment that is designed to change behavior, and not just some kinky game in which there is a perverse desire to do things to get spanked.

I hope people will share a bit about their own experiences when it became real or about how hard it it sometimes is to accept that new reality.  When the Disciplined Husband realized the reality of submitting to real spankings.  When the Disciplinary Wife accepted that she had real power and real responsibility.  Also, I would still like to spend some time on this consistency theme.  What have couples done to ensure that spankings do happen as regularly as warranted and that all those "real life" distractions do not get in the way of a "real" disciplinary relationship.

As always, if you are new to this Forum, please take a moment to drop by the Guestbook  (see tab above) and tell us a little about your DD or FLR lifestyle or aspirations.   

The Forum - Vol. 194 - Use Your Words

A lot of people are afraid to say what they want. That’s why they don’t get what they want. -
Madonna

Hello all.  Welcome back to The Forum.  Our weekly gathering of men and women who are, or would like to be, in a Domestic Discipline or Female Led relationship.  I hope you all had a great week.

I apologize for the delay in posting.  Darren responded that he hoped it resulted from being grounded from the internet after a hard disciplinary spanking.  Unfortunately, no.  I was just busy with something else.  Though, I do have a very bruised bottom but, interestingly, not from a spanking.  I used to worry that at some point I would go to a doctor with bruising from a spanking and wouldn't be believed if I lied and said I slipped and fell.  Because how could slipping and falling on your butt generate enough force to result in real bruising?  Well, I can now confirm that it can.  I had such a fall a few days ago, and I am now sporting a very angry bruise on one cheek.  And those threats from your wife to the effect of "You won't be able to sit for a week . . ."  -- I can confirm that a bruised bottom definitely can make sitting very uncomfortable.  My only comfort is I did have a hard spanking coming, but it may have to wait a few days until some of the current tenderness is gone.  Or not.

This week's topic is kind of related to that "You won't be able to sit for a week . . ." threat, though I will take a bit of a meandering trip to explain it.  A few weeks ago, my wife and I had a disagreement that resulted in her getting very angry and storming out of the room.  Those things happen, but it is a problem in the context of our marriage because we have agreed that when she is angry with me, she has the tools to take control and bring the argument to a screeching halt in a very concrete way.  We have been at this for over a decade, and yet vocalizing her unhappiness and saying exactly what she wants and expects is still a challenge for her sometimes.  I'm sure years of socialization are part of the problem, and there is that seemingly ever present female concern that straight talk will come off as bitchy.

It was shortly after this fight that Kathy over at http://femdom101.blogspot.com began a series of posts regarding the Netflix series "The Crown."  I decided to give it a try and ended up having a binge watching weekend.  I have absolutely no doubt that the director or someone on the writing staff have an FLR thing going on.  It is, in fact, a very interesting multi-part exploration of two people, Queen Elizabeth and her husband Phillip, learning to command and to submit respectively when neither came naturally to those roles.  Elizabeth must learn to lead after her father dies, and  unlike many future monarchs she had not been prepared for that from an early age because she was kind of an accidental ruler.  Her father became king only after her uncle Edward VIII (portrayed as a fairly effeminate and servile husband to a dominant wife) abdicated the throne, and she became monarch at a young age after her father died of cancer.  Her husband Phillip, a prince in his own right, is a strong and proud man who finds himself unexpectedly playing the role of consort to the newly minted Queen.  The dynamic between Elizabeth and Phillip is also fascinating, culminating in the issue of whether he must kneel at her coronation.  He asks to be released from that obligation, and she refuses.  He becomes very angry and proclaims that he wants to be married to his wife, not to a queen. She replies that she is both wife and Queen and that a strong man should be able to kneel to both.

It also is a study in learning to use power, and specifically that leadership skills can be taught and learned, though perhaps in small, incremental steps.  Some of the most intriguing segments are the exchanges between Elizabeth and Winston Churchill.  There is very explicit mentoring going on with respect to making decisions, and the necessity of really making and owning them.  While he gives her advice, he then presses her to both make the actual decision and to vocalize it.  He realizes and subtly impresses on her the necessity of learning to take ownership of her own power.

That is what this week's topic is about. Vocalizing. Commanding.  Expressing what she wants.  There is another scene in The Crown related to this theme that has an even more explicit FLR reference.  Churchill's health is failing and he suffers from two strokes, but he and certain cabinet ministers try to hide it from Elizabeth.  When she learns of their deception, she discusses it with her new tutor, a wizened professor who advises her that she must assert her authority and recommends bringing them in for "a good dressing down." She asks why men of such power and distinction would stand for it, and her tutor observes, "Because they're English, male and upper-class.  A good dressing down from nanny is what they want most in life."  She proceeds to bring them in and gives them just such a dressing down.  After it is over, she encounters her husband who observes that she looks "taller." He then proceeds to seduce her, plainly turned on by her newly acquired authoritative, regal bearing.

That is the long-winded introduction to this week's topic, which is about that "dressing down." Lecturing.  Vocalizing both her expectations and her dissatisfaction when those are not met.

This is something I really love about the artwork from the owner of the RedRump blog: http://redrump.blogspot.com.  While there is some lighthearted stuff with women having fun administering their butt blisterings, a majority of the drawings portray the woman as pissed off and letting it show. These are women who plainly are not to be trifled with, and when they are angry they express it.  With words.  With facial expressions. Their entire demeanor is congruent with their status as Head of the relationship, and when discipline is to be meted out their demeanor and words are part and parcel of the punishment process, designed to break down the ego of the offender as surely as the spanking itself.  It is both an expression of authority and a warning about what is about to happen.

Is strong lecturing and chastisement part of your DD and FLR relationship? Do you want it to be?  I have come to appreciate the extent to which the passion and authority with which I am directed and controlled is almost more important to the whole experience than the spanking itself.  It's not just about taking me to the woodshed.  It is about making me go there.  Telling me that it is going to happen and why.  Vocalizing what she is angry about and what she is going to do to me as a result of that anger.  Emphasizing through her words, her expression and her demeanor that it is absolutely inevitable that I am going to be punished. That I have no choice in the matter and, yes, that I very much should be afraid of it and how much it is going to hurt.  And, I do want her to express her anger.  In fact, just as Churchill would advise Elizabeth but then make her vocalize it as her own decision, even if I have advised something I want and need on the DD front, I need her to vocalize it to me as her order.  In short, I want her to use her words, and to use them to dominate, control and chastise me.

Do you share those desires?  If lecturing and verbal chastisement are part of your DD relationship, give us a few examples.  A while back we did a topic on spanking-related phrases, which I put below  for reference and for our female readers to consider working into their disciplinary vocabulary. But, please go beyond that and tell us about times when lecturing has been used to good effect in your relationship.

_______

Now.

I'll give you something to cry about.

Understood?

Did you hear what I said?

Not as sorry as you are going to be.

We will discuss this later.

Bring me the paddle.

I'm not going to stop until you are crying. 

I am going to blister your behind.

I am going to set your bottom on fire.

You are going to be much sorrier.

I bet you will be good - after I finish blistering your behind.

I sure hope you don't do it again. God help you if you do.

Stop? (with increduality) Oh no, dear, we're just getting started.

You really should be ashamed that I'm having to paddle your behind like this - will you ever grow up?

Of course it hurts - you should have remembered that before misbehaving again.

There are no limits on my authority to spank you, anytime, anyplace for any reason –got that?

You have a naughty little boy inside you and when he comes out it’s my job to teach him how to behave.

You are going to be severely punished.

Lose it. (referring to a pre-spanking erection)

Do you want me to take you upstairs and pull your pants down?

One more word and I will ...

You are going to get such a sore bottom when we get home.

You just carry on with that attitude, just carry on...

Really?  Really?

You're too big for your britches, and those britches are coming down.

Assume the position.

I promise this is going to be an ass blistering that you won't soon forget.

You'll be lucky if you can sit down for the next week.

Go cut me a switch.

Of course it hurts. It is supposed to hurt.

Our company should be here soon, dear. Time to bring me the paddle so we can make sure you remember to behave.

________

I hope you all have a great week. As always, if you're new to this Forum, please take a moment to stop by the Guestbook (tab above) and tell us a little about your DD or FLR relationship or aspirations.

The Forum - Late Posting This Week

I will be tied up (not in a good way) on another matter today  and likely won't be able to get to a new post until tomorrow.  Enjoy your Saturday.

The Forum - Vol. 193 - "Natural" Leaders and Submissives

It is much safer to obey than to rule. -- Thomas Kempis

Hello all.  Welcome back to the Forum -- Disciplined Husbands and Disciplinary Wives.  Our weekly gathering of men, women and couples who are in, or interested in being in, Domestic Discipline or Female Led Relationships.  I hope you all had a great week.

Last week's topic didn't blow up in the way I was concerned it might, but it also didn't quite get off the ground, did it?  That itself probably indicates the extent to which it made some people squeamish.  I thought it was tailor made to get some thoughtful comments from some of our regulars, especially the women, but few of them commented at all.  And, some who did avoided the actual topic entirely, instead talking about things that seemed aimed more at the topic from two weeks ago.  (BTW, as referenced in one of my comments, KD Pierre has been having his own issues with non-responsive responses over on his blog, and dealing with it ways that are far more amusing than what I usually go with.  https://collectedsubs.blogspot.com/2017/02/non-sexquitur.html.)  However, we did get some very thoughtful responses from a few people, so it was something worth exploring.

I'm not really sure what I want to do this week.  Honestly, it's just one of those lazy weekends, and I'm feeling more than a little bored and uninspired.  So, it may be up to all of you to carry the conversation along this week.  We do have a poll we can talk about a little.  It dovetails a little with a couple of the comments we did get last week, but it's also a little disconcerting as it seems to point to a pretty large gap between this blogger and most of his audience.

Our poll was as follows:

I am a disciplined husband or interested in being one, and I am:

Naturally submissive	63 (68%)
Not naturally submissive	29 (31%)

Now, it is not often that these polls result in such a clear-cut split between one option and another (though possibly because I rarely offer such a binary choice).  Usually the results are a lot more muddled.  Here, a very clear majority sees themselves as naturally submissive.  Making it even more definitive is the phrasing of the two options.  I tried to stay away from describing the "not naturally submissive" option with any term that might have a more loaded or divisive connotation, like "Alpha" or "dominant."

This confirms a rather poorly constructed poll we did over a year ago, in which the options were: 

I am [Male or Female] and Outside the Home I prefer to: 

Female - Prefer to Follow   2 (2%) Female - Prefer to Lead   5 (5%) Male - Prefer to Follow   48 (55%) Male - Prefer to Lead   36 (41%)
A majority of those who are responding to these polls are clearly interested in doing what comes naturally to them.  They identify as naturally submissive or having a preference to follow rather than lead, and I assume they are attracted to DD and FLR because those fit their natural preference.  What intrigues me so much about this is that I come at this from the exact opposite angle, and my entire motivation for being in a Domestic Discipline relationship and wanting to explore a Female Led one is that I am not at all submissive in real life and strongly prefer to lead and really hate being led.  For me, this is like yin and yang:

My handy Wikipedia defines it as "The combination or fusion of the two cosmic forces.  A circle divided by an S-shaped line into a dark and a light segment, representing respectively yin and yang, each containing a 'seed' of the other.  Yin is characterized as slow, soft, yielding, diffuse, cold, wet, and passive; and is associated with water, earth, the moon, femininity, and nighttime. Yang, by contrast, is fast, hard, solid, focused, hot, dry, and active; and is associated with fire, sky, the sun, masculinity and daytime." In my "real" life, I am all yang, all the time.  But, that is not a very healthy way to live.  J Girl touched on something like this in one of the more on-point comments last week: "It only makes sense that since most of us experience discipline -- or, in many cases, craved discipline -- from a loving parental or authority figure, that when we desire discipline from our significant other, there are somewhat parental overtones. Many in the DD community deny this vehemently, and I suspect the reasoning is because we are so adamantly opposed to disordered relationships, and so insistent that consensual discipline within a DD dynamic is healthy. However, the relationships by their very nature are different."  My response was, "DD fills some need that doesn't seem to be present in "normal" or "healthy" people. I tend to think of it more in terms of "unbalanced" than "disordered," but that may be a distinction without a difference." Intellectually at least, my attraction to DD lies in the fact that it requires me, a fairly unyielding and dominant person, to yield and submit.  I am attracted to it because it requires me to grow in a direction that is not natural to me and that makes me very uncomfortable.  For me, DD is about bringing some order to that disordered state that J. Girl references; bringing balance to a personality that is inherently unbalanced and way too much yang for its own good. Yet, this poll seems to indicate that most of this blog's readers are coming at things from the opposite perspective, attracted to something that fits where they naturally want to go anyway.  It also shows why I sometimes get into discussions where we are just talking past each other about the nature of submission and why husbands who don't always tow the line should be cut some slack.  Not in terms of not getting the punishment they have coming, but in terms of understanding why they may not instantly and consistently obey every rule.  Every few weeks I will get a comment from someone to the effect of, "You just need to submit."  And without exception those comments always irritate the hell out of me, because it's clear that the person just doesn't get that for a non-submissive person, submitting to someone else is a very hard thing to do.  It is not natural to them, and they must fight their natural tendency to fight and resist.  Conversely, if your natural temperament is geared toward submission, then isn't it awfully easy to advise "just submit"?  It's what you want to do anyway!  This also ties into a misunderstanding I had with one of our regular commenters, who I think may have misread or misunderstood where I was going with some comments about female leadership.  It was an example of comments I get every once in awhile that suggest I don't appreciate how hard it is is for wives to step into the leadership role.  To the contrary, I have no doubt at all about how hard it is to be a real leader, particularly for those who are stuck in yin to the same extent I am burdened by excessive yang.  Leading is hard!  Even for people who have strong leadership attributes, it takes thought and commitment and learning to be comfortable not just with a degree of confrontation but with actually initiating the confrontation.  And all that may cut against who that person has always been.  But, even if following is more natural to such a person, is it healthy? What do you miss out on by not leading, even if leading is hard?  Leading does not come easily to my wife.  Both by temperament and socialization, when confronted with an obstinate, unyielding husband, her first reaction is to retreat.  But, she is figuring out over time that she actually does like leading, likes being in charge and, yes, likes disciplining.  There are always just stray doubts in her mind about what reaction she will get when she does step up.  It's that ongoing conversation that Alan brought up a few weeks ago, in which she takes a step forward but is waiting for something from me showing that I am going to really accept that leadership.  Conversely, because following is so hard for me, my fantasy is that she will just take over and force me into submission, overcoming my will when I don't find it easy to do myself. My aversion to the concept of "topping from the bottom" also comes, to some extent, from the perspective that leadership is hard and must be developed, and the same with submission.  I do believe that there may be instances where a woman who has taken on the title of Head of Household may decide not to discipline or punish and actually has a good, well-considered reason for doing so.  In those instances, it may very well be that he needs to accept that and, in doing so, he is learning to be a better follower.  HOWEVER, I also think that not punishing or disciplining consistently when you have agreed to do that can just be poor leadership, reflecting that person retreating to their more "natural" or preferred state of passivity or submission.  Again, I have nothing but admiration for every Disciplinary Wife who struggles against socialization and temperament in order to become a better leader.  It is very, very hard work.  And because it is such hard work, I don't have a lot of sympathy for the position that the passivity of someone who has taken on the title but is NOT doing the work must be respected just because she has taken on the HoH title.  In the end, these are consensual agreements in which the parties have agreed to take on certain roles.  Saying, "I choose to lead by not leading" seems like sophistry, and "topping from the bottom" can be a convenient concept to fall back on when the designated "leader" isn't stepping up but doesn't want to be called on it. Well, now that I have proven beyond all doubt that I was being honest in saying I had no idea where this topic was going, do with it what you will.  I think it would be interesting to hear from those who are playing against their natural inclinations -- dominant personalities who are learning to submit or folks who aren't comfortable in the leadership role but are working hard to develop those skills.  For those who are playing to their natural state, I am interested in hearing how that works for you, whether it feels right to be more of what you are, or do you ever feel like it retards your ability to grow and develop in other directions? Have a great week.

The Forum - Vol. 192 - Nurturing

"That was what he wanted. For somebody to tell him 'No.' To have somebody lay down the law, set the limits, give him something solid to stand on. That's what we all want, really.” ― S.E. Hinton

Hello all.  Welcome back to The Forum - Disciplined Husbands & Disciplinary Wives.  Our weekly gathering of men and women who are in Female Led Relationships or into Domestic Discipline. Thanks for joining us.

I decided to get an early start on this week's topic, as I may be off-line much of tomorrow.  Also, it felt like this week's topic had run out of gas, though I do want to thank everyone who participated in it.  We didn't succeed in getting a whole lot out on the table regarding what men can do to show their submission in order to encourage their wives to take charge, but there were some nuggets in there.  I'm also not sure whether I did a good enough job of explaining what I was looking for, which seemed fairly simple to me at the time: namely, whether men have ways of showing their willingness to be led before expecting her to just take a strong lead.  It was really about, what can we as disciplined men do to help build up our wives' confidence even if, in an ideal world, we would prefer that they take command and impose their will without us having to prod things along with things like suggesting a spanking might be appropriate or acting submissive such that she takes it as a cue to lead.  Anyhow . . . best laid plans.  

I will say that sometime in the near future, you can expect me to do a topic going off again on the whole "topping from the bottom" thing, as it once again came up and seemed to generate more heat than light.  I am more and more convinced that it is like one of those non-indigenous weeds or snakes that gets let loose in a new environment and wreaks havoc on the eco-system.  I'm obviously analogizing to what happens when we import concepts from one kink--in this case BDSM or Femdom--into something different (DD) that may not have the same goal or purpose.  I don't think there could possibly be anything more destructive to a budding DD relationships than the suggestion that there is something wrong about communicating what it is you need and what it is you are hoping DD will do for you, whether as the spanker or spankee or letting your partner know what is and is not working.  I know that "topping from the bottom" is not necessarily incompatible with open communication between couples, but it is just so easy to apply it in a way that shuts down communication, in the DD context it just seems to be way more trouble than it is worth.  Anyway, enough of that.  Onward.

During the course of last week's conversation, Marisa made the following point in response to a very thoughtful comment about confessing one's transgressions and failings:

"I am not Catholic ( Jay is) but I LOVE confession. I am not talking about the contrived " mommy I was naughty" version designed to get a spanking, but the sincere heartfelt admission of guilt and acceptance of penance. This is very hot for a dominant woman (maybe even a vanilla woman).  I believe it taps deeply into our nurturing nature as well as the penance giving role so natural to us."

I want to follow up on her "nurturing nature" and "penance giving role" comment.  Another word for what I think she may have been getting at is "mothering."  Now, I am coming at this topic with a lot of trepidation, because I absolutely do not want to open the door to a bunch of "I love it when Mommy puts me in diapers . . ." stuff from "Anonymous" in all his permutations.   While whatever people want to do in the privacy of their own bedroom is up to them, some of it is beyond the scope of this blog. (Though, I will admit some it reflects your blogger's personal comfort zones.   I read recently that Mike Pence refers to his wife as "Mother." Totally creeped me out.)  So, like I said, I hope I am not opening up a big can of worms here.  But, I actually have been thinking for some time about doing something here about whether "nurturing" and "mothering" are an aspect of DD and FLR relationships for some couples or are part of the mindset that makes or keeps either party interested in DD.  It has been on my list for awhile, though I did keep shying away from it. But, Marisa's comment seemed like a good opening to do some tasteful exploring.

In addition to Marisa's insights, I can think of two separate incidents that got me thinking about this.  First, several months ago I mentioned that I had listened to some lectures I found on-line from a professional disciplinarian who also promotes herself as a "spanking therapist" specializing in adults with spanking fetishes.  She opined that many adult men and women who crave real disciplinary "to tears" kind of spankings who grew up in chaotic homes with few rules, or where the rules were inconsistently enforced, and it left them feeling insecure, guilt-ridden, etc.  As adults, they crave the structure and boundary-setting, and consequences for misbehavior, that they did not experience growing up.  She referred to adult spanking in that context as almost a form of "re-parenting."  

Second, in my own DD relationship we had never, until recently, even alluded to any "mothering" aspect. And, honestly, if I had ever thought about it I probably would not have brought it up, because I suspect there are many women who might be open to DD but definitely do not want it to be associated with mothering or treating him as a "little boy" and I assumed my wife might have the same adverse reaction.  A few months ago, however, I said something about how I felt like her bringing a very strong and stern demeanor when she was in the course of ordering or delivering a spanking was important, because of the vulnerability and greater sense of genuine regret and accountability it fosters. I told her that I wanted to experience that "healthy fear" more often.  I gave her the example of a stern teacher, and she responded with something like, "Or, like a boy who is about to get a very sound spanking from his mother."  Since then, she has made a few comments along those lines -- that part of me wants to be disciplined in the same way it used to happen to misbehaving boys from a strict mom.  Instead of reacting negatively to the mothering metaphor, she seemed to gravitate toward it in some way.

It isn't all that easy for me to admit, but some of that imagery does resonate for me as well, though I do think it has more to do with wanting to be subject to control by a strong authority figure than with "mothering" per se.  A mother could fill that role, but so could a teacher, or a strict aunt (or uncle, for that matter).  But, I do think it does have something to do with someone having that kind of actual authority and sufficient physical or positional power, to make a spanking happen when a rule is broken.  

 For me, I'm not sure it is linked so much to the disciplinarian's age and accompanying authority, as to my lack thereof.  It is about the feeling of lacking the ability to resist that we felt if subject to corporal punishment growing up.  As an adult, I always kind of know that even if I have committed to being spanked whenever she orders it, if I wanted to resist, I could. It's not like that when we are younger, right? If punishment was ordered from an adult, whether at home or school, it was going to happen. That sense of inevitability -- that it is going to happen period and without any chance of getting out of it -- definitely is part of the morbid attraction DD had for me from the first moment I read about it.  And, I feel it now more than a decade later as I write this post.  It gets my butterflies going in a way that most other topics just don't. "Tears" being probably the only other one that has the same level of fascination all these years later, and I think the two are inextricably linked for me on some level.

Anyway, let's explore this a little.  Does mothering or parenting or nurturing play any role in your DD or FLR lifestyle or in your motivations to give or receive discipline?  Or, perhaps some vulnerability we had growing up that we want to tap into again?  Or, her ability to make you feel weak in the knees, like a boy caught doing something especially bad, when she gives you an especially tough lecture?  For the wives, does the "mothering" or "nurturing" aspect of your personality play any role (positive or negative) in your desire or willingness to be a disciplinarian? Marisa also referred to "the penance giving role so natural to us."  Is that a natural and overlooked facet of many women and mothers?

I hope you all have a great week.  If you are new to this Forum, please take a moment to stop by the Guestbook (tab above) and tell us a little about yourself and your DD or FLR lifestyle or desires.

Dan