The Forum -- Vol. 135 -- Teaching Dominance

“There are no good girls gone wrong - just bad girls found out.” -  Mae West


Hello all.  Welcome back to the Disciplined Husbands Forum.  Our weekly gathering of men and women who are participating or interested in Domestic Discipline and Female Led Relationships.  I hope you had a great week and are enjoying the weekend.

Mine was -- a little overly dramatic -- as many of you saw in the last post.  Unfortunately, it carried over into another forum, and was just a massive distraction I didn't need this week.  And, honestly, one that I played a major role in maintaining, since I could have just deleted the damn comments and left it at that.  But, I just couldn't do it in the moment. I got caught up in the need to control the situation, which paradoxically could have been much more effectively controlled by simply refusing to engage at that level.   I really need to make this a bigger area of focus for our own DD relationship, making temper and control issues a bigger and more serious offense than they have been to date.  Anyway, we are all a work in progress, aren't we?

Which is a good segue into this week's topic.  Can dominance and control be taught or learned, if it isn't who you are at your core, or at least hasn't been part of your personality that you have been able to really express in the past?  A comment by Marisa on a post a couple of weeks ago got me thinking about this: "We found our way to DD through a crisis in our marriage, the next step would have been marriage counseling if we had not tried discipline. I am aggressive and take charge and that personality trait can't be taught."

I have no doubt that we all are hard-wired with certain innate levels of aggression and tendencies to "take charge."  But, for those who lack that innate bent, can it be developed?  Is it something you can get better at with practice?  Most importantly, is it something you can actually grow to like even if it wasn't a part of your personality earlier in life? Particularly with all the negative soclialization that women are subjected to where power and authority are concerned, are there many who may actually have aggressive and "take charge" wiring that has seldom been expressed but can be if she gives herself real permission to do it?

I thought about this again this morning in connection with a comment on our last topic, to the effect that one way to test the "fantasy" of DD versus the reality is to subject him to at least one really, really hard spanking and see if it is something he still wants a few days later.  Might it also work the same way for the would be "disciplinarian"?  Perhaps cutting loose the inner Disciplinarian by giving one very hard spanking, or spending a day or two in full-blown Head of Household mode, would test whether leadership and dominance are traits that have been dormant but that she would come to really enjoy if she gave them more free rein?

What do you think?  Can dominance be learned or taught?  Has that happened in your DD or FLR relationship?

If you haven't done so already, please take a minute to fill out the polls on your level of satisfaction with the "intensity" of various aspects of your FLR and DD relationships.  And, if you're new to this blog, please take a moment to stop by the Guestbook (tab above) and tell us a little about yourself. 

Dan

The Forum -- Vol. 135 -- Fantasy versus Reality

[Note: Comment moderation has been enabled again, hopefully temporarily.  I apologize for the inconvenience, but your comments may be a little slow to post.]

Hello all.  Welcome back to the Disciplined Husbands Forum.  Our weekly gathering of men and women who are participating or interested in Domestic Discipline and Female Led Relationships.  I hope you had a great week and are enjoying the weekend.

I had originally intended to devote this week's Forum to the topic of whether being dominant can be learned, but I decided to put that one off for a week, because in the meantime I got a really wonderful email from one of our commenters that focused on the difference between the "fantasies" that may have led us to Domestic Discipline versus the reality of actually being a disciplined husband.  I have reprinted it below and made its themes this week's topic, because it summarized by own experience as well or better than I have ever been able to.

It was also well timed, as there have been a larger than normal number of comments here and in the Guestbook referring to "extreme" spankings, but in a context that makes it clear that what the author considers "extreme" is the "fantasy" that brought many of us to Domestic Discipline, namely a true disciplinary spanking that hurts enough to make us very sorry that we engaged in the behavior for which we are being punished.  There are aspects of that theme in the below, where the author talks about a spanking that is so hard and long that you don't think you can take it, but it is only when you realize that it is just beginning that you really give into it and experience what a true punishment spanking is supposed to be.  For some this remains only a fantasy, but for some it is the very essence of a Domestic Discipline relationship.

Because of what seemed to be a trend in the comments, I have posted three new polls that focus on what level of discipline and control people are looking for in these relationships.  I have done a variation on these before, but we have a lot more readers now and it seemed like a good time to test whether there is still a very strong bias in our readers towards wanting harder discipline, stricter accountability, and more rigorous control.  Another reason I wanted to repeat the earlier poll is some of the wives have expressed recently that one thing that may hold them back from really stepping into the HoH role is concern that he might change his mind once he experiences the reality and finds it quite different from the fantasy.  So, gents, if you want to reassure your Disciplinary Wife that this is what you really want, please fill out the polls and help deliver that message.

So, here is full post, from ZM.  From my perspective, it really is a fantastic summary of what brought me to, and keeps me in, a Domestic Discipline relationship:

Why do I need or want this?  I'm really not sure...

·      Maybe I need more clear boundaries, so life feels orderly and not out of control?

o   I didn't have any boundaries while growing up. Could it be that?

o   Maybe I just need the reassurance and orderliness of actions having consequences for the world to make sense? Of course they do, but it is not always as clear as "if this, then that..."

·      Maybe I want or need to change faster to become who I want to be and do what I want to do?

o   I am good, but I have huge dreams so I need to become ever better to achieve my goals.

o   Sometimes consequences are too long-term to change behavior effectively. For example, I know that if I eat less, I will lose weight, look better, be healthier, and live longer. But because these are all long term effects, it can be very hard to stay on a diet since I don't see immediate results.

o   Maybe I lack sufficient self-control, or I live too much in the moment? But for me to achieve my long term goals, I need short-term consequences to effect long-term change.

·      Maybe I sometimes need the closure of having paid for my transgressions?

o   Even if others forgive me, sometimes it is hard to forgive myself, and guilt accumulates.

o   There are few situations in life where wrongs are truly paid for (like speeding tickets)

o   Sometimes I just need to have a clean slate.

·      Maybe I get tired of being in charge, and need to be under someone else's control for a while?

o   It is lonely at the top, with everyone looking to me for answers all the time.

o   Maybe even though others look up to me, I know I am not quite as great as they think?

o   Or maybe I bully others sometimes, and need to feel what it is like to be bossed around?

o   Either way, making difficult decisions is tiring. It can be a relief to have all decisions out of my hands, even if only for a time.

It could be any, all, or none of these reasons.  I'm not sure, but it doesn't really matter, because I do know that I crave "real" discipline, punishment, and control, that which most people would rather avoid. This need for control and discipline is a perpetual enigma which forever lives in the never-never land between fantasy and reality. My fantasy and reality are far apart and in direct conflict:

·      In my fantasy, boundaries are imposed and enforced.  In reality, I rebel against any boundaries.

·      In my fantasy, my actions have consequences.  In reality, I try to avoid negative consequences.

·      In my fantasy, I crave punishment.  In reality, I fear punishment. 

·      In my fantasy, I must give up control.  In reality, I love to be in control.

·      In my fantasy, I am weak and powerless.  In reality, I am strong and powerful.

I am incredibly fortunate because I have someone who loves me enough to understand and fulfill my unusual needs and desires. It is complicated by the fact that my fantasy needs it to be "real," but at the same time, we have a great relationship and equal partnership, so our reality needs it to be "fantasy." In the end, we allow the fantasy to enter our reality from time to time, but our relationship will never be in any way defined by it, but rather by our love for each other. We are loving, we are in love, and everything we do is inspired by love. Even the very firmness, strictness, harshness and at times almost meanness that she unleashes as part of this fantasy ultimately flow from our love for each other. It is very ironic that this fantasy which is based on power and control (both of which have absolutely no place in love) makes us ever closer to each other and more in love.

So here I am waiting, remembering the last time and anticipating the next, not knowing when it will be; It could be tomorrow, next week, or next month.  I crave it because the whole experience is unbelievably exciting, and not knowing when it will next happen only adds to the excitement.  At the same time I also fear the real emotion involved, since I don’t like disappointing her. As more time passes from the last punishment, the desire grows and I want it to happen again. But in order for it to have meaning, it has to be for real infractions and she has to have emotions to vent. Because I love her and only want to make her happy, I will never try to hurt her feelings, so infractions are not intentional, but rather things that I do without thinking or that result from my bad habits.  Also, because she is kind and understanding, she might not choose to punish me even when I deserve it.  However, living together inevitably ensures that infractions will happen from time to time, and at least at some of these times, she will be in the mood to use my fantasy to make her feelings clear.

When she decides to punish me, I am immediately overcome by powerful emotions as my fantasy collides with the reality of my impending punishment. My heart races and I feel a surge of adrenaline bordering on fear. I may think it is unfair or undeserved and try to defend my actions or plead my innocence, but ultimately, it was me who asked for this, who gave her this authority, and who said that her word is final, so I give in to the inevitable.  As soon as the punishment actually starts, everything becomes very real very quickly, and the fantasy is forgotten for a time, totally replaced by reality.  I am initially surprised by how it is more painful than I remembered from before, since I tend to forget the pain and remember only the experience (kind of like having a baby). At first, I try to fight the punishment and just endure until the end.  I am more focused on being strong  than thinking about why I am being punished. As the punishment continues, I start to feel like I can't take any more, and that it will never end.  But of course it doesn't end yet, since at that point true punishment is just beginning.  The pain, embarrassment, guilt and emotion keep building as the punishment progresses and they overpower all my defenses one by one, until in the end I surrender to and even embrace the punishment, knowing that I deserve it and need it. At that point, I relax and just absorb the lesson being taught.  Finally the punishment can end.

However real the punishment might have been, as soon as it is over, the conflict between reality and fantasy begins once again. Over the following days, the punishment (with all of the feelings of fear, excitement, pain, and embarrassment) is ever-present in my mind.  As I sit down, or perhaps as I walk, I feel the effects of the punishment.  The times I am not consciously aware of it, I am unconsciously replaying the punishment, what was said, what needs to change, etc. But as I remember what happened, I am seeing the reality of what happened through the lens of fantasy.  Yes it was painful, embarrassing, etc., but it was also very, very hot!

Again, THIS is why it works (at least for me). Even though I don't always understand this relationship between fantasy and reality, it is BECAUSE of this paradox that it is so powerful for me. As we walk over this bridge between fantasy and reality, it all at once fulfills my strongest fantasies, changes me,  and strengthens our love.

·      It greatly enhances communication. I hear and understand much better than if she just used verbal communication. Because of the sudden harshness and seriousness, and because it plays to my deepest fantasy, the issue is given maximum attention, but in a positive way, rather than negative. Rather than just try to evade the issue and make it go away, I actually listen. Since relationships are entirely dependent on communication, this is incredibly powerful and makes our relationship bulletproof.

·      It changes my thinking or my mindset about the situation or behavior. Over the days that follow, the whole scene and all the emotions of it is on constant replay through my mind, and I see the situation more clearly from her viewpoint. As my mindset changes, it changes my behavior.

·      It greatly increases intimacy. In life, I am strong and always stand up for her, provide for her, and protect her.  But for a time, I am completely vulnerable to her. This vulnerability enables intimacy which creates a bond that others will never feel.

·      It makes me love her and feel loved even more, because she cares enough about me to do anything and everything to make my fantasies reality. Sure, if she was just cold and distant, it would make a point, but I would be angry with her and would feel defensive and might pull away. Instead, she has made my fantasy reality, exactly at the time she might not feel much like doing me favors.  

Because she is using my own fantasy to communicate her own feelings, I fully hear what she says, I see things from a different perspective, I feel closer to her than ever, and it makes me want to meet her every need because of our deep love for each other.  This strengthens our relationship and empowers me to make changes that allow our lives to be better, happier, and less stressful as I become who I want to be and we achieve our dreams."

So, how does your Domestic Discipline or FLR relationship deviate from the fantasy that led you to it or keeps you in it?  Are they conflict, or do they mutually reinforce each other, as they do for ZM?

 Have a great week, and if you are new to our Forum, please stop by the Guestbook (tab above) and tell us a little about yourself.

Dan

The Forum - Vol. 133 - Persuasion and Progress

Hello all.  I hope you had a great week.  Welcome back to the Disciplined Husbands Forum.  Our weekly gathering of men and women participating or interested in Domestic Discipline and Female Led Relationships. 

There have been some interesting conversations going on here, on the Guestbook, and in my case some direct communications with a few people.  An emerging theme in some of these exchanges has been how to persuade a hesitant disciplinarian.  As many of you know, I began my DD journey after discovering the Disciplinary Wives Club.  It has been an inspiration to many.  But, there are a few things it gets wrong, or at least creates a risk of leaving people with some pretty unrealistic expectations regarding how the "typical" DD relationship is likely to progress and how they often get off the launchpad.  For example:

-- Most of the DD relationships in DWC stories seem to be initiated by the women, often by simply imposing them on the man. 

--  DWC women all seem to go from vanilla to enthusiastic, resolute paddle wielding Dommes instantaneously after reading the DWC, or hearing about spanking through a friend, or responding to a husband's request to give spanking a try.

-- Men cry the first time they go over her knee for a spanking with the hairbrush.

Now, the reality is a little more complicated and, in many ways, conflicts with the gist of the DWC message, inspiring as that message may be to many of us.  Based on our polls and reader stories, it seems pretty clear that most DD relationships are initiated by the men, by a wide margin.  Most men don't cry right out out of the gate, and many never do.  The hairbrush is, for most people, a generally ineffective instrument and OTK is often an awkward position that does not allow for generating sufficient momentum or force.

But, all these are little details that DWC couples discover for themselves over time, or maybe sometimes those things actually do happen and do work for some couples.  However, the idea that women just step naturally into the disciplinarian role when asked seems to to present a more serious problem.  Because it may leave the men who want these relationships with some seriously flawed expectations of how things are likely to progress even after they get lucky enough to get their partner to agree to try the domestic discipline lifestyle.  Their wives may be genuinely interested in giving it a try, but it's just not realistic to expect someone to change decades of socialization and habit over night.  I recently pointed out to one of our group the disparate expectations going on here when we expect our wives to instantly flip a switch and become a commanding and domineering presence, while many of us seek out DD to help us deal with bad habits that we don't seem to be able to change even with the exercise of all our will power.  For example, one of my goals going into this year was to get rid of sugar.  Yet, it is a rare day that I can pass up that plate of cookies or brownies that someone brought into work.  If I can't make such a simple change, how can I expect my wife to just suddenly and without effort remake her entire view of herself to become a full-on Head of Household, even if she really does want it? 

Yet, progress does happen.  It takes time and focus and effort and communication and patience.   All of those and more.  And, that is today's topic -- how do you help your would-be disciplinarian progress from a willing but historically vanilla partner into a more stern, more commanding, presence?  For those on the swinging end of the paddle, were there things you did to make the switch to thinking of yourself as a disciplinarian, Head of Household, Female Leader, etc.?  In other words, in the "real world," as opposed to some DWC-fueled fantasy, how do we go from aspiration to something like a real DD or FLR lifestyle?  What are some of your hard-learned tips and tricks? Let's help newbies and wannabes take their relationships to the next level, while avoiding disappointments resulting from unrealistic expectations.

Please be as specific as possible with what you have found effective in making the transition to a real disciplinarian or HoH.

Have a great week.

Dan.

The Forum - Vol. 132 - Undeserved Punishment

Hi all. Welcome back to the Disciplined Husbands Forum, our weekly gathering place for individuals and couples who are participating or interested in Domestic Discipline and FLR relationships. I hope you all had a great week.

We had some good contributions last week on spanking related phrases that are meant to get our attention, deliver a warning, let us know what we have coming, etc.  Here is my compilation, with some slight editing on my part.  I will also post these in the Tips & Methods secction:


I'll give you something to cry about.

Understood?

Did you hear what I said?

Not as sorry as you are going to be.

We will discuss this later.

Bring me the paddle.

Down on all fours and don't get up until I see tears of remorse.

I don't see tears.  Does that mean you need the cane?

So what did he do this time?

I am going to blister your behind.

I am going to set your bottom on fire.

You are going to be much sorrier.

I bet you will be good - after I finish blistering your behind.

I sure hope you won't do it again - God help you if you do.

Stop? (with increduality) Oh no, dear, we're just getting started.

You really should be ashamed that I'm having to paddle your behind like this - will you ever grow up?

Of course it hurts - you should have remembered that before misbehaving again.

There are no limits on my authority to spank you, anytime, anyplace for any reason –got that.

You have a naughty little boy inside you and when he comes out it’s my job to teach him how to behave.

You are going to be severely punished.

Lose it. (referring to a pre-spanking erection)

Do you want me to take you upstairs and pull your pants down?

One more word and I will ...

You are going to get such a sore bottom when we get home.

You just carry on with that attitude, just carry on...

 We are going upstairs now as you definitely need a resetting.

Really?  Really?

I'll take care of that.

Infraction.

You know that's punishable.

You're too smart for your britches, and those britches are coming down.

Assume the position.

Time to bring me the paddle.

I promise this is going to be ass blistering that you won't soon forget - you'll be lucky if you can sit down for the next week."

Now go cut me a switch.

Of course it hurts. It is supposed to hurt.

Our company should be here soon, dear. Time to bring me the paddle so we can make sure you remember to behave.

And you're going to be even sorrier.

Why don't we discuss this at length, on Friday over dinner.

This week's topic was suggested in a recent comment. It is "undeserved" punishment.  Have you ever been given a disciplinary spanking for something you felt you didn't deserve?  Perhaps "caught" doing something you really didn't do? Or someone else was the real offender? Or, maybe you did something that wasn't contrary to any clearly set rule, but it was something that annoyed or aggravated your HoH, so they disciplined you for it unexpectedly?  In those circumstances, how did you react?  How did it make you feel?  Humbled?  Resentful?  Respectful?

I can't think of a circumstance where I have been punished by her for something I really didn't do or something that I didn't know was a problem for her.  The closest I can think of is a situation where I repeatedly left a chore undone, or done half-assed, and she finally had enough, ordered a spanking, and delivered a very, very hard one that evening.  It was not that it was "undeserved" per se, but this chore was not so much something assigned to me under some express rule, but something I have just always done.  Moreover, giving  a very hard spanking for not doing a chore was not a direction either of us had taken things in up until that point.  So, perhaps the right word is "unexpected" as opposed to "undeserved."  In terms of how I reacted, there was perhaps some resentment as I pulled by pants up over my very sore bottom that night, but there was also an offsetting respect.  Admiration is another good word to describe it.  I felt proud of her for addressing a situation that was pissing her off, and doing it strongly and decisively.  That reaction was one indication I had that we might have approached a fork in the road, going from something purely DD to something more FLR-oriented, with her setting the tone and direction and taking action where she thought appropriate, not just to address a violation of some rule we had expressly agreed to.

It also would be more than a little disingenuous for me to get too upset about being punished for something I didn't deserve given that, on balance, I have engaged in way more bad behavior that has gone unpunished that I should not have gotten away with.  So, being punished where not strictly deserved could be looked at as just a balancing of the scales!

I hope you all have a great weekend.

The Forum - Vol. 131 - The Power of Words

Hello all. Welcome back to this week's meeting of the Disciplined Husband's Forum, our on-line gathering of men and women who are participating or interested in Domestic Discipline or Female Led Relationships.  I hope you all had a great week.

This week's topic is about the power of words.  Specifically, those words or phrases that enter the lexicon of our spanking and FLR relationships and really get our attention.  Perhaps they signal that we have crossed a behavioral line.  Or let us know that a spanking session is about to begin and we should do something to prepare.  Or, maybe a word that is particularly good at bringing about control or submission or that functions as a clear assertion of authority.

"I'll give you something to cry about" seemed to be especially popular when I was growing up.  Today, one that is gaining a more prominent place in her FLR vocabulary is "Understood?"  As in, she directs me to do something or gives me some order or direction, and follows it with the question, "Understood?"  Making me answer seems to serve multiple purposes.  It makes it a lot harder for me to later claim confusion or forgetfulness as an excuse for non-performance.  It also makes me a participant in the humbling process, forcing me to openly and verbally acknowledge her authority.  It also serves as a simple and direct assertion of that authority.

Another one she uses relative frequently is, "Not as sorry as you are going to be," following some expression of remorse or regret on my part for some bad act.

"I'm sorry for not doing the dishes [for the third time this week.]"

"Not as sorry as you are going to be."

Powerful words that make it clear that the excuses are over and a trip to her "woodshed" is imminent.

So, what words or phrases spoken in the FLR context does the disciplinarian in your relationship use to assert her authority or signal a punishment is going to happen? What words or phrases get your attention or make you go weak in the knees?  Maybe something she uses in public to let you know what you are in for -- something with meaning for just the two of you?

Let's try to put together the biggest list that we can, which I will then post in the Tips & Methods section of the blog.  It will also give us something we can pass along to our disciplinarians as suggestions for ways to verbally assert and reinforce their authority or help us get into that more submissive space that fosters these kinds of relationships.

Have a good week and, if you are new to the blog, please drop by the Guestbook (see tab above) and tell us something about yourself.