Saturday, January 10, 2015

The Forum - Vol. 72

Hello all.  Well, have we all gotten back into the swing of things after the holidays?  I'm not quite there yet, but all good things must end.

This week's topic touches on some things we've talked about before, but I don't think I've presented it quite this way before and, even if I have, I now have a new personal context for it.  The question is:  As you have handed over more control or authority to your spouse as part of Domestic Discipline or FLR relationship, have they ever taken things in a direction you didn't anticipate, were not ready for, or didn't like?

I raise this now, because it has happened in my own relationship over the last few months.  As I have alluded to a few times, last year we talked about exploring something a little closer to an FLR relationship, with her exercising more dominance on a daily basis and in areas that didn't really have anything to do with correcting bad behavior.  It does not come naturally for me but, of course, if I enjoyed it then it woudn't really be an act of submission to her control  -- it would just be something that fills my own needs or desires.  But, my wife, on the other hand, is displaying signs of liking the "service" aspect of FLR, so there is a good likelihood that she will keep it up. thereby making 2015 a challenging year for me.

How about everyone else?  Tell us about any instance in which your spouse took the relationship in a direction you weren't really prepared for or had a hard time accepting.

I hope you have a great week.

Dan


38 comments:

  1. Dan
    Happy New Year !
    May it be a truly new year for you and all of us that follow you. I found your example of seating
    at the holiday table a wonderful example. You didn't however tell us your reaction and later how
    you and your wife spoke of this that evening when you two were alone.
    Happy New Year !
    anna

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  2. I like the fantasy of being a complete servant to my wife, and her being a very demanding master. Like you, the reality of that is not something I am up for full time. Our solution is to adopt those roles part-time. We take one vacation each year during which my role is to wait on her continuously. On a few week-ends each year, we adopt these roles. We usually choose week-ends in which we want to accomplish a lot of house cleaning or other projects, so much of the work she orders me to do is not personal service. The work needs to be done anyway, but for some reason it seems more tolerable when she is sitting on the couch having a cool drink and ordering me to get it done, especially if I have a red bottom.

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  3. Where does DD start and where does it stop? Is the 'pain' actually enjoyable in itsef or is it all of what surrounds it?
    Where does FLR start and where does it stop? Is the 'work' actually enjoyable in itself or is it all of what surrounds it?
    Perhaps the control by, and submission to, element is the same in both, only showing slightly different faces of itself to different people at different times. This may have been a time for you when you saw both of those begin to overlap. I hope you find enjoyment in the reality of it as it seems to be real the way you portray it. JT

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    1. Hi JT. Thanks for the contribution and for joining us?

      I think the "enjoyment" issue highlights a difference, or potential difference, between men who are into DD for discpline versus those who are into it more for the opportunity to submit to someone. In other words, are they motivated by the desire to have someone impose boundaries, and punish when they cross them, because they think it is good for them, or because the enjoy it? It's a complicated line, and it's probably not really a line at all but more of a spectrum. But, I think it is a relevant distinction. I do not "enjoy" being disciplined. And, I don't really enjoy the process around it. But, I do feel like I am often out of control, and there is a certain comfort in being pulled back into line. But, that is really as close as it comes to enjoyment. And, for whatever reason, I don't feel any of that comfort when being bossed around on things like household chores.

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    2. I know I wouldn't enjoy the pain in DD and I don't really enjoy being told to get off the couch during a playoff game to do some stupid little task. That is me. But I did read here in a later comment that you experienced a "strange buzz of pleasure" while reading of Respecting Misstress being put through the paces on a recent shopping trip with the lady. I experienced the same feelings reading this on my own before I realized it was a common thing. (must have been well written).
      I guess the point I'm trying to make is that for some it is not the actual event, but rather that what surrounds it, is what many of us want in
      both DD and FLR. Isn't that common to both?

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    3. I should clarify, by what surrounds, I mean her "being in charge" JT

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  4. While our DD marriage started as a way for my wife to have control over my misbehaving, over time she took on the role as the primary decision maker and rule maker. Examples of these include her having the final say on financial matters, imposing a family budget, establishing a list of regular chores for me and setting expectations for me. These items and others developed over time and are intertwined with disciplinary matters. It really improved our communicating with one another as well as establishing clearly the dynamics of our relationship.

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    1. This seems to be similar to where my wife seems to be taking things. It sounds like it has worked out for you over time. Thanks for contributing!

      Dan

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  5. What a great topic......and certainly one I can relate to not just personally but also in the similarity in how your wife views her power and how my Rosa views hers. She too 'likes' the reality of asking for things I don't eagerly wish to do. Not always....but often enough. At the time I feel much as you do....but....I do find that I 'like' the arrangement both in retrospect and in anticipation of the next unpleasant demand.

    It's much like the real discipline spankings. I don't really like them in the moment and even get rather testy over accepting one, but afterwards I admire my Rosa's conviction in standing her ground. It's the same with the chore-type stuff.

    One thing we do incorporate is reasonable accommodation most of the time. I have asked that she not push certain jobs on me at certain times. It's a compromise of sorts....it's like "ok honey, I will do this for you.......but don't hit me with it when I'm obviously stressed over something or wiped out from doing some other chore." Very often she will accommodate this delayed obedience because essentially she is still being obeyed.....it's just that she doesn't feel the need to push it to a point of ruining the whole arrangement.

    Knowing when to back down on either side is a delicate balance....a dance of loving and responsible dominance and submission. We both want this, but we are both human and neither of us wants to ruin the 'good thing' we have going with a FLR by either pushing too hard or resisting too often.

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    1. Hi KD. Good to hear from you, as always! I admire you and Rosa's ability to sort this all out in a way that works for you. I hope I will get there too. Your comparison of the negative initial reaction to a real discipline spanking with the annoyance of being subject to other annoying demand makes perfect sense to me. Intellectually. For whatever reason, however, I react to them very differently. But, perhaps that will change over time.

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  6. Dan
    After spending rather foolishly at Christmas, I agreed to turn over all credit cards to my wife. If I need to use a credit card I have to ask her permission and was told she expected to have a receipt of my expenditure. I resent being treated this way, but she now will be paying all our bills so that she has a better idea of our finances. It seems that daily there seem to be new rules for me to follow. It is very hard to admit but as much as I resent it, I need to be reined in.

    sean

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    1. Sean, you have a great deal of self-awareness. I need to aspire to get to that same place. And, I think I could if my wife was imposing control based on something bad I did, such as your wife removing your credit card because you overspent. The punishment aspect I not only accept, but I know that such a "reining in" would do me good. I just have a very different reaction when it is giving me direction and it is not connected to some sort of punishement or behavior modification.

      Dan

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  7. I’ve always said I’d accept Mistress’ authority, whether it be a thrashing with the cane to correct me for my faults or her telling me to do the chores etc.
    The reality is that, like you Dan, I don’t cope well with being ordered around and doing all the chores.
    I can cope with it in the house and accept being bossed around and punished as she see’s fit. However it’s when it spills off into the outside world that I struggle – and if I’m honest, I never thought Mistress would want it taken beyond our four walls.
    We do have an agreement we’ll never display any hint of our FLR to family, friends or people we know – but even with family she likes to show who’s boss. It’s only in subtle ways but her mum and daughter have both commented about ‘knowing who’s in charge.’
    The one thing I struggle with is being embarrassed when out shopping.
    Mistress seems to be like your wife – she doesn’t remember to do it all the time, but when she does, she really goes to town as it were, and it’s so humiliating.
    She has a habit of stopping the street to berate me. I can feel myself going red as she stands lecturing me for some misdemeanor or other – like wandering off to look in my shops when I should be with her.
    Some days she insists on me walking one pace behind her at all times. If I go in front she just stops and waits for me to stop. By then, I’m several paces ahead and to see her wagging her finger at me and pointing to her heel is simply the most embarrassing thing I can imagine.
    I also struggle to cope with being talked about when she is going through checkouts- those conversations Mistress has with elder check-out operators about me only being there to carry the shopping – and being a daft male who can’t pack the bags properly.
    Having said all that, I do get a strange buzz of pleasure when she behaves in this way. It’s almost like her badge of authority she holds over me being taken to the nearest limit possible without completely revealing the reality of our relationship.

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    1. HI DH. It's interesting, and also shows how complicated this is, but the scenario you describe of your wife being more outwardly dominant in public gives me a bit of that "strange buzz of pleasure" just thinking about it. But, whether I would feel that way if she actually did more of that -- I don't know. I once thought I would get some kind of positive emotion of being subject to her bossing me around on household tasks, but I don't. I guess it's just hard to predict how any of us will react to something until we are actually in that situation.

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    2. Dan
      Reading this response to Respecting Mistress made me wonder if your own wife reads your blog. If she does not are you as candid with her as this blog has forced you to be with the world.
      I ask that with affection.
      Anna

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  8. Interesting conversation and comments. To Dan and others that note it there distaste for being ordered around, it would be interesting to have a post that focused on that very topic-trying to answer the question why? Why is it so difficult to take orders from the very Woman you love so much?

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    1. Hi IH. It probably would be a good independent topic, and I'll add it to the list. My personal view as it relates to the current topic is, if you are wired to disrespect authority, I don't think it really matters the extent to which you respect or even love the person giving the orders. In my case, anyone who works with me would verify that I have in many respects made a career out of disrespecting authority. I'm one of those people who never met a rule I didn't want to break. For example, it has become a running joke that I absolutely refuse to adhere tot he company's dress code. And, I just cannot stand anyone at work telling me what to do, even those for whom I have tremendous respect and admiration. At my most compliant moment, I pretend to accept their direction while inwardly asking, "Just who the hell do you think you are?"

      And, yes, that rebellious streak is very much something that I am trying to control by submitting to my wife's disciplline. But, saying I recognize I have a problem, and liking the solution, are two very different things.

      Dan

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  9. I enjoyed reading the post as well as the comments. All I can say is that more and more women are aware of flm, domestic discipline, and so forth; and are very willing to take the whip in their hand. For whatever reason men have a need for female authority in their life. From what I have read it makes them feel alive, it makes them feel secure, and for many men the act of serving their wives simply seems natural. Love, Kathy

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    1. Hi Dan
      I think this rebelliousness and resistance to authority is a core part of men who seek f/m relationships and corporal punishment. We have some guilt about our rebelliousness and want unconsciously perhaps to be punished for it. We resist authority and seek it out at the same time. which is a conflict that causes us sometimes to act out. Deep down we all want and need firm authority imposed on us and seek a woman who can do it. The ability to spank me is what backs up my wife authority and I know I would disobey her if she didn’t have that “sanction” as she calls it. But it’s really firm authority and control I need and if my wife could achieve it without corporal punishment she would. Nothing makes my wife angrier than for me to in any way to “challenge” her authority. I think that proves she understands my need for authority even when I fight it. Also I see in her more and more her need to exercise that authority

      Alan

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    2. Hi Kathy
      Are you speaking metaphorically or literarily when you say more women are willing to take the whip into their hands? My wife has spanked for most of our marriage but I have never received the whip. She has gone from teasing me about needing a good whipping to shopping websites for a real whip. I have always associated a whip with cold heartless punishment and so I am concerned. I will do whatever she decides but do you really think more women are using whips on their husbands. Thanks
      Ed

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    3. Hi Kathy. Thanks for joining. I'm really glad you think that more women are aware of, and interested in, these relationships. It sometimes doesn't feel that way. Particularly when you look at the statistics on our ongoing reader poll, which indicate the number of men interested in receiving DD vastly outweighs the women interested in it. But, the poll also probably isn't getting anything close to a representative sample.

      I agree that a lot of men need female authority, and I think what the comments on this topic show is that the need manifests itself in a variety of ways. The service aspect does nothing for me, while the discipline and control aspects really do, while others love the service but do not feel a need to be spanked or disciplined.

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    4. Hi Alan. Great comment and observations. I don't think I feel "guilty" per se for rebelling against authority. But, I do recognize that it has negative consequences. I often describe what I need as "boundaries." I grew up in a fairly non-traditional environment -- one in which I took on a lot of responsibily and basically set my own rules at an early age. It was a teenagers' wet dream, but I think it also left me feeling like the weight of the world was on my shoulders, because if I screwed up it was all on me. I often feel like my need to be under my wife's authority reflects a need to let someone else be in charge for awhile, because it is just a chore being the one in charge of me all the time. But, some of it also is just a recognition that I have a hard time keeping myself under control, and it is good for someone to put me in place and make me pay a price when I step out of line.

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  10. Yes, rules were layed out I agreed to them, not all I liked. The one time that stands out and will for along time was mouthing off in front of my mother-in-law, my wife told me in no uncertain terms to say I was sorry and then took me to the bedroom and well I was heard clearly. I stood rubbing, crying, my mother-in-law walked in, took one look and smiled. I was bare from the waist down. I stood facing the wall for a good half hour in the kitchen, the two talked and when my wife told her mother she could administer another spanking if she wished it was okay with her.
    My mother-in-law spanks harder than my wife and I watch my mouth, not only in front of my mother-in-law but anyone. This one of many I agreed to, to be spanked in front of others and if necessary by someone other than my wife.

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    1. Hi Anonymous. Thanks for the contribution. Glad to hear they are both keeping you in line.

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  11. Sorry I am tardy to the party Dan. My answer would be yes ... kind of. We pretty much do the same types of things when we are engaged in physical activity, be it a spanking punishment or even making love. Lately, Mistress has been wanting to be filled with our biggest dildo whenever she orgasms with me in the room. I'm usually either kneeling beside her and watching (I'm allowed/required to stroke myself while she is doing her work) or I am tasked with either licking or fingering her tiny rear hole. None of this is anything for me to complain about because I truly enjoy sex the most when I am allowed to view her having an orgasm. It is emotional for me even.

    During, I will sometimes dirty talk her and ask her if she enjoys having another cock inside while I am watching and although she doesn't respond verbally, she'll moan and I can tell it gets her closer to orgasm. I very, very rarely am allowed to orgasm when we make love. On those rare occasions that she does allow me to orgasm, it's almost always ruined. Anyway, I digress .... the point I was going to make is that Mistress has brought up the subject, even asked me directly if I like watching another cock go in and out of her. She never used the dreaded "cuck" word but it was open-ended enough to imply that might be what she was referring to. Just the other day, I was naked and has just finished the dishes, about to get dressed for work when she came over, grabbed my flaccid cock and asked the question again. She simultaneously put her hand on my ass and pulled me into her, nuzzled my neck and spread my ass cheeks apart like she knows I like. then she asked again. Of course my cock started to grow in her hand and she said before I could answer "I see that you do like that idea. Your cock doesn't lie." She stopped everything and said "got get dressed and go to work and walked away, not allowing me the opportunity to reply or even suggest that it was the other things she was doing that got me aroused.

    I'm pretty sure Mistress K. doesn't have any intention of trying to go down the cuck road. I'm also pretty sure that she has every intention of allowing me to believe that it will be possible.

    Excellent question as always my friend.

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  12. One thing this forum proves is that there are many different strokes for different folks that work for them. I think FLR and DD can be mutually exclusive or mutually inclusive, as an example. In my case they are mutually exclusive. My wife and I try to solve issues (financial, budgetary, vacation planning, car buying, et.al. by discussing them together, and we usually agree, but if we can't agree my wife yields to me. She doesn't want to make the final decision in areas she isn't comfortable with. I guess that makes her a non-dominant. A FLR doesn't work for us because she prefers for me to make most decisions (I guess that way if my decision turns out bad, she isn't responsible for it and I am). I have been a natural leader my entire life in athletics and eventually as a CEO. Like Dan, I am not a natural conformist, but I have learned to conform when necessary in the business world - because you have to. I have never had problems with teamwork and giving credit where credit is do. I do have a temper, and I can't always hide it at work, but usually do.

    I have had problems in my marriage by not being a good listener, losing my temper at home and with my wife is a very bad trait, be demeaning at times toward my wife or her friends, and things like that got punished by my wife using typical women's tactics, to wit, a hot tongue and cold shoulder, not speaking to me, sleeping in separate bedrooms for a few days (that kind of punishment). That drove me away from her and I would retaliate in kind. Our relationship grew worse and something had to change or we were headed for divorce - something neither of us wanted.

    What changed was me realizing I was at fault and needed to change, but it would take more than just saying it and then not correcting it. I came across the Spencer Spanking Plan first which I still think is the best possible way for couples to solve problems. Since I was the one at fault, and my wife didn't have behavioral problems, it dawned on me that the Spenser Spanking Plan would work if we agreed on unacceptable behavior on my part that was hurting our marriage and if she could muster up the fortitude to bust my butt when I failed to behave as agreed. She read that plan and without hesitation told me that's exactly what I needed and she was more than willing to do it as I had been needing a well spanked behind for a very long time. She also read the DWC info, and other sites on the subject of domestic discipline. She became a very good disciplinarian in a reasonably short period of time (months, not years), learned to paddle very hard and very fast when I failed to live up to my agreements. and I did not enjoy them at all while I was getting spanked, but I knew I deserved what I was getting, and when it was over felt relieved and good about getting what I deserved. No more guilt, I felt my wife got appropriate revenge for my indiscretions, and incredibly I felt more in love with her and I was grateful for her for having made this effort to straighten me out when I needed it. (TO BE CONTINUED)

    .

    Fred

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  13. CONTINUED - My wife has become a very strict disciplinarian for behavioral indiscretions, but has no interest whatsoever in a FLR relationship. She wants me to be the leader, but behave myself in the process. She asks me to do chores and I do them immediately or soon thereafter. She doesn't boss me. I would resent being bossed and it just wouldn't work. At work I don't boss people, I ask them to help me and would appreciate it if they will do XYZ. I don't think being bossy works for anybody.

    We don't have corner time, writing lines, wearing panty hose or any of that stuff, just a good old fashioned spanking that hurts like hell, and when it's over the issue is over and I'm forgiven. So just DD spankings work for us, nothing more is needed, and this has been our solution based on our personalities, strengths and weaknesses and without it we'd probably been divorced by now. Instead we are very much in love and enjoying life together.

    Fred

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    1. Hi Fred. When you describe is pretty close to where I am, and to where we started, i.e. a relationship focused on DD but not necessarily on FLR. But, she does seem to be going in the FLR direction. It also may not be quite right to say I am not moving in that direction, because my reaction to RM's comment about public displays of dominance shows part of that does resonate with me. I just think she is moving in that direction faster than I am, and she may ultimately take it further. Time will tell

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    2. Fred's distinction between an FLR and DD are important even though some people treat the terms as synonymous. The culture may be changing and younger women are certainly becoming more assertive but its slow and most women still are uncomfortable with the complete role reversal part of FLR. But a lot of women including my wife are quite comfortable with assuming a disciplinary role retaining essentially a partnership with their husbands outside the discipline. That is maybe why spanking plays such a big part in DD but not necessarily in an FLR

      Alan.

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  14. Well good luck to you Dan on your adventures going down the road. Have you ever requested participants discuss the values they get from their DD relationships, and what benefits their wives have gained as a result. Conversely any disappointments. I would be interested in some of the wives who follow this blog to comment directly on this.

    Fred

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  15. I married a strong willed woman, all I ever dated. From the beginning she would not tolerate "Men's childish behavior", I knew this. She also understood that men are under more stress than women and need a way to relieve this, not be in charge all the time. The first time she stated that I needed a trip to the bedroom, I went along with her, she bared my bottom, talked to me like a naughty little boy and it was not until I went over her lap that she was not playing around. I will admit standing facing the wall I felt a lot of stress leave, this I was not expecting at all. I'm spanked in private, this is serving a purpose and is between the two of us.
    She does not always have me naked, most times she bares the bottom and I still feel very little when this is done. Depending how bad I've been it starts with the hand and the hairbrush is applied on those special occasions. I'm scolding like a child, have learned my erections does not excite her, she reminds me it will be gone shortly. Over time the spankings have become harder and I squirm, kick my feet, plead, and always bawling after a spanking. But the bottom line what I did not expect from her being in charge how I feel better, don't get me wrong, when told to get to the bedroom I dread it each and every time.

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  16. A lot to read on this! For me I like the discipline but not the total control. Humiliation in panties and over a female knee is fine but to be ordered around is one aspect I cannot equate to. There are times where I will do what my wife wants but they are short and I end up very sore and contrite but still the alpha male. Hard to explain really. My discipline is strict, controlled and of a certain period, but in that time she has control.

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  17. As I have probably posted before - although my wife has been administering disciplinary spankings at least weekly for over ten years now, we still largely have a typical modern "American" partnership marriage and she even defers to my opinion in areas where I have expertise (primarily financial). However, that even though it is not "required", I am definitely far more likely to to cater to my wife and follow her directions than I was prior to our disciplinary arrangement - and she does sometimes take advantage of this.

    As an outgrowth of the Disciplinary Wife lifestyle, my wife also became far more dominant in the bedroom as well - leading to enema and pegging discipline, a greatly increased amount of oral servitude (front and rear), clean-up service, etc.... She has lately been talking about experimenting with cuckolding me as well - in a limited sense with widowed gentleman who is our neighbor and good friend. They flirt all the time and he enjoys looking her as well (and lately she has made it a point to show off a bit when he is visiting - coming out with just a t-shirt on, barely covering her bottom and no bra - that sort of thing) - so I have no doubt she could seduce him, even though he is my friend to. I am not really in favor of this for a number of reasons, but I have to admit there is some strange appeal to my submissive side.

    --al

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  18. And just a quick comment on the "crying" question from a week or two back (the Holidays kept me largely off line). Like Alan,my wife encourages me to cry - and even expects me to cry. Very early on in the lifestyle, she read a post on a forum that said "If he's not crying, you're not spanking hard enough" - she took that to heart, and I almost always cry - as she spanks hard enough and long enough to make sure that I do. She has an honest belief that it is good for for my mental and emotional well being to have a good cry while being spanked.

    I do realize that there are men who will not cry no matter how hard they are spanked, but this is certainly not me - and I think my wife knew this up front as she had seen me occasionally shed a tear in certain situations.

    Happy New Year to All!

    --al

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    1. HI Al. Hope you had a good holiday. It's odd but, while I haven't been able to cry in disciplinary situations, I do cry in other situations. Even a sappy Country Western song can move me to tears. I hope that is a sign that tears from discipline are at least possible for me, if she finds the right formula for bringing it about.

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  19. My wife is perfectly happy to have me take care of all matters relating to the "outside world" (whether these involve financial planning, taxes, car maintenance, house repairs, etc.) but she is adamant when it comes to "domestic" matters (including household chores), and she expects me to obey her unquestioningly. This includes my accompanying her when she goes shopping - or her choosing what clothes I should wear. She also has firm rules about the way I must behave when we are "in company", or when friends come to visit.

    Any such transgression on my part inevitably ends with my bared bottom being soundly whapped, lashed or caned - after which (sometimes followed by a spell of "corner time") I am forgiven... until the next time she reckons that I must (again) be disciplined...

    L.

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