Happy Friday to everyone. I am not going to be close to a computer for most of the day tomorrow, so I decided to get an early start on this week's question. Before we get to it, however, I wanted to point out the poll on the right side of this blog page. I put it up some time ago, but Blogger's poll gadget was not working for the last several weeks. It now appears to be working again, so please take a couple of seconds to tell us your status.
This week's question is a bit of a reaction to one of the comments on last week's question. One of our readers had commented that his wife spanks him after he has an orgasm, as it takes the "fun" element out of the spanking. I quipped that we have not done that, and I really don't want to, as I want to be disciplined, but perhaps not that much. Another commenter then observed: "Dan to say you want to be really disciplined .. but not that much doesnt
show to me at least, that you are ready to hand over control or even
have controlled seized from you."
For the most part, I disagree with that comment, but it depends a bit on what the commenter means by "ready" to hand over control. I am ready in terms of knowing that I do want to give up control. And, if my wife would simply seize it from me -- even better. But, that doesn't mean that I find giving up control to be easy. Not in the slightest. And, for us, that is kind of the point. I am a naturally controlling personality, and my intensity level is pretty high. But, I know I would be a happier, better adjusted person if I could learn to temper my controlling nature. And, that is why I was so fascinated by domestic discipline when I first stumbled across the concept. Fascinated, but also truly terrified at the thought of giving up control in that way. Particularly when I read stories about men crying from their wife's spanking. Sobbing during a spanking would, in my view, be the ultimate act of surrendering to my wife's authority. But, the fact that it still has not happened is some indication that I have not fully surrendered.
So, I am "ready" to hand over control, in terms of I do want to do it, but I also recognize that it is a work in progress, and part of me really resists it. And, I find the non-spanking elements of a DD or FLR relationship the hardest part. My wife and I have talked a lot about her being more dominant outside the context of a punishment session. Really taking control 24/7, bossing me around more, telling me exactly what she wants me to do, etc. And, we've talked about trying non-spanking punishments, such as grounding me for bad behavior. I do believe that our relationship will go in that direction over time, but I also find it very, very hard to submit to it now. When she does order me to something, I resent it and always feel myself wanting to rebel. At those times, my commitment to DD is shaky.
So, that is my question for those who are in a DD or FLR relationship: Does it ever just seem too hard sometimes? Do you ever regret adopting a DD or FLR lifestyle. Or, on the other hand, is submission something that you find natural and easy? Also, I've asked this before, but I still want to get more answers: If your partner did not start out as the dominant, controlling party, how did she grow into that role, and were there particular things you did to reinforce it?
I hope you all have a great weekend.
Dan
Friday, June 20, 2014
16 comments:
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this is a big pet peeve of mine, nothing irritates me more than one submissive saying to another, "i'm more submissive than you," or "you're not a real sub" etc etc. Or the similar idea of, "all sissies should do x" (in my case), or more generally all subs should do x. It's ridiculous, every D/s relationship is different, just like every "normal" relationship is different. It's what works in each individual relationship, they are all unique. That particularly commenter should shut up and mind his one business.
ReplyDeleteI live in a FLR-DD.
ReplyDeleteYes, it has been, occasionally, difficult.
One time..at least, I flat refused when she gave me an order to "come to the bedroom and stand in the corner."
I have a temper similar to a volcano. it does not erupt often, at all, but when it does, get the hell out of the way.
She saw the build-up coming, and left me alone for a couple days.
By then I cooled down, admitted what I did wrong, apologized, and accepted some painful punishment.
I am easily accepting of being submissive; my problem is living with others, as I have not done it for a long time.
She was a Dominant, long before I met her, so I had to do nothing, other than direct our relationship from Mistress/slave to dominant wife/submissive husband...though we know do both; M/s in dungeons and parties, dw/sh at home, and about 60/40 Dw/sh in vanilla public.
Thanks, Merryslave. So far, I have not refused when she gave me an order, but to some extent that is because she does not give me that many. We will see how it goes as she steps up her control in new and unexpected ways
DeleteHi Dan!
ReplyDeleteSusie here. My husband sometimes makes my life hell when it comes to control. He can be so easy sometimes, but other times, he can get an idea in his head and completely refuse to be cooperative.
I'm sure I've mentioned that I've been doing this (BDSM) for over 20 years and I've been on both sides. I even mentioned that I had an open mind when it came to this. It's not easy. It's harder than any other relationship I've had, and my husband will often resist, backtrack, and generally be a pill.
Sometimes, I question why I allowed myself to be talked into all this domestic discipline crap and I hate myself for ruining a perfectly good BDSM relationship and turned it into a micromanaging hell. I've taken on more responsibility than I ever imagined, and I find myself taking over more and more of his life and I feel like I'm drowning, or suffocating, or both. It really gets overwhelming at times.
BUT, in some weird unexplainable way, there is security in all this. His security, my security, OUR security. I make decisions, I discuss it with him, and I sometimes ask for his input and then I do whatever I decide is best. I give him choices when I'm torn, and I watch him stumble and knock his head against the wall, but our love and devotion for each other just gets stronger. I look into his eyes and I know that he trusts me. That's why I keep chugging on, that's why I don't throw my hands in the air and give up. I understand that someday soon, all this hard work will come to fruition, and we will be bettor for it. I love him, and I want what's best, and this is it.
Hi Susie. I think this is a great topic for a future Forum. We men in DD relationships are often pushing for our women to assume more control, but control also does entail responsibility. And, many women probably feel their lives already are too complicated and they have too much responsibility for too many people. A couple of years ago, I was talking to a friend about the phenomenon that was Fifty Shades of Grey. She had commented about the sheer volume of women in her social group who were reading it, and I told her that I had a really hard time understanding why a woman would be interested in a story involving M/f dominance, given that women had been dominated by men throughout history. I asked her whether women in her social set would be interested in going the other way and taking control over the men. She just sighed and said, "We are already in control. We do the shopping. Handle most of the child care. We often balance the bank accounts and pay the bills. And, for some of us, all on top of having our own jobs. We already have too many responsibilities without taking on more." It was an eye opening conversation for me regarding why some women may never want a DD or FLR relationship.
DeleteI am going to comment on two themes running through your last two questions and the comments made to them. One is about a wife “seizing control and related is the notion of whether you are ready to submit completely to her authority. My experience ( with two different women) is that you don’t know if you are ready until she draws that line in the sand and demands you accept discipline. She has to seize control and then you find out. What took time in both my relationships was that my disciplinarians sensed I was ambivalent and so they hesitated to take that final step. I think it is hard in our culture for many women to demand obedience and you really have to show you are ready to submit to their authority. With my girlfriend it never really happened but my wife pretty early in our relationship insisted I accept a spanking for something I felt was unfair (at the time). That spanking happened and I realized that emotionally I could not stop her even though physically I could have. That was a defining moment for us when I realized she would spank when she decided and I couldn’t stop it. I think something like that has to happen in every DD relationship if it is to become real. As much as we think we want discipline our women have to seize and use their authority before it all clicks. Because we can’t discipline ourselves is why we ask our wives or girlfriends to do it for us. The other issue is being made to orgasm before punishment. Any male who has been punished this way would probably do almost anything to avoid another. It probably is the purest kind of adult punishment and I doubt there is a male who is not reduced to tears spanked that way. I do think willingness to accept this is an acid test for being ready to submit completely. Both women I have been involved with demanded authority to use this to enhance punishment rather than to humiliate. My girlfriend told me she felt it a limit on her authority until I agreed to do it but after I did a couple of times she never used it again. My wife also saw it as a control issue but she does actually use it to punish me for one particular misbehavior. It just my opinion but if you are looking for a way to show your wife she is in charge offer to take your next spanking after orgasm. Believe me she will understand what you are offering and after it’s over you will have no doubt who is in charge
ReplyDeleteAlan
Alan, I think you are exactly right that the order has to be that control is seized, and only then do you figure out whether it is something you, and she, are ready for. I've had a similar experience with my wife ordering a spanking when I thought it wasn't fair or earned. It was definitely much harder to submit in that situation, but I did it. Of course, I also had to recognize that there are plenty of times I escape punishment when it is more than deserved, so I probably am not in a strong position to object to getting an occasional one that was unearned.
DeleteHi Dan, you have summed my feelings up pretty much with how you’ve related yours.
ReplyDeleteI was the one who initiated our FLR and Mistress went along with it. Any failings along the way have been mine, resisting her authority.
Like you, I’m pretty controlling too in my work, but I’ve always been naturally submissive with women and felt our relationship would be stronger if Mistress was the one with authority. For the most part it works really well.
However, even though we have several years of this regime behind us, I still struggle to accept her authority at all times. We have gone periods of several weeks where she is 100% in charge and we both really benefit from the situation. Any issues are dealt with by means of strict discipline to help keep my focus – and that also works.
But then I always reach a point where I struggle to submit to her will and the FLR breaks down. Sometimes it’s simply that I can’t face another caning, other times I just disagree with her authority and rebel.
I know it’s not good – and we’ve both tried to analyse why the FLR breaks down., Sometimes it’s outside influences but other times it’s just a trigger inside that says ‘no more.
It’s always my fault the system breaks down but I sometime wonder if Mistress were more authoritative and absolutely insisted we strict to her rules what would happen.
So in answer to your questions: yes sometime it does seem too hard but then any worthwhile relationship needs a lot of work and an FRL is no different a ‘vanilla’ relationship in that respect. In many ways – it takes more hard work.
I don’t find submission easy but I do find it very satisfying when it is working and Mistress agrees with that from her perspective as the dominant.
And do we eve regret adopting DD? Never. It’s just like anything else in life, there are ups and downs we have to deal with.
My wife did not start out as a dominate controlling spouse. She grow into that role, as a result of being influenced by her close friend that was in a DD marriage. My wife wanted me to be like her friends husband – a very kind, considerate and loving husband. Over several years, she implemented the suggestions made by her friend. The first thing I remember was her getting me to agree to some basic “rules”. Of course some of those agreed upon rules eventually were broken and that’s when the discipline had to be enforced. Eventually punishment spankings were administered but were ineffective at first since they were not very long and no implement was used – just her hand. It was when she caught me viewing porn that made her furious and she used the paddle and the spanking was intense. Since then, she always uses the paddle and never stops until I am sobbing. Like you, when she orders me to do something, I sometimes resent it but for me, I know that she is right and I want to please her.
ReplyDeleteThanks for sharing. As I've said before, I am envious of those you who can sob during a spanking. I just haven't been able to get there yet
DeleteNor I. I simply have not been able to cry during a spanking. I just refuse to let myself go. I am more likely to get angry ne furious, than I am to cry.
DeleteDan
ReplyDeleteSometime in mid April I wrote a brief outline of our marriage and how we arrived at discipline as
a viable solution. The first ten years of our marriage were like many others my husband, who is
a type A personality worked hard, played hard and ignored both me and our two boys.
Finally driven to marriage counseling which wasnt working when i came across a few articles about female led marriages. I brought it up at our session.
Long story short husband confessed he wanted me to be more take charge and that didnt include
nagging him. We sat down and worked out a system. Slowly and sanely we came apon a program that works for us. What i didnt get before was just how much he wanted me to take control and punish him when he broke the rules we agreed upon.
The past five years hasnt always been easy but i have learned to take control and he has learned to submit to what i request without a debate. It works ! My hubby now sets a great example for my sons to grow into a mother can be proud of and that any woman would welcome as a spouse.
Anna
Anna, this is great. Thanks for sharing your story. Can I ask a few follow-up questions? First, I am dying to know how your counsel reacted when you brought up the possibility of a female-led marriage. Did he/she know what you were suggesting might involve corporal punishment? Second, do you have any tips to pass along on how you learned to take control and become comfortable in that role? Thanks again for sharing!
DeleteDan
ReplyDeleteI will begin by saying it was a man who we spoke with when our marriage was at a crisis point. Our
counselor was a man of 50 or so who had been a Jesuit priest and had left the church. He was a man who had a great sensitivity and truly knew how to listen. I didnt really bring up the idea of a female led marriage. My husband started by complaining that I had left all decisions in our life up to him. He, like you, was very type A personality and any time I took charge of anything he would either redo it or critique what I had done. We spent many years blaming each other. At the end of our first session the counselor who we called Ed, quietly spoke and suggested we both come back in two weeks with a list of what we really wanted from the other person.
What followed was several weeks of each of us becoming more and more honest. What came out was Husband saying he wanted me to take charge of the house. Several sessions later he
confessed he wanted me to be as strong as his mom had been not just with him but with his dad.
From that came a confession that to him that included punishment. Ed suggested we read and
explore and slowly we came up with a set of rules and should any rules be broken there would be
punishment by spanking. The one we both agreed to was if i said it was spanking it would happen there would be no discussion about if it were fair or not.
There were many starts and stops but i realized when i demanded for example no drinking and driving and he chose to do that there would be punishment. We did have many stops and starts but finally are in a place where we are showing our two sons how a marriage should work. They
act out less and my dear husband seldom. Dont give up is what id say to you. It has been so worth it.
Anna
Thank you Anna!
ReplyDeleteWith love,
Susie
Dan
ReplyDeleteOur counselor, Ed, from the start urged us to speak openly. Once we did he worked very hard to make sure that we expressed our reservations as well as our desires to each other. For us, what
made me realize the import of what my husband wanted, meaning a wife with a firm hand, I was
able to overcome what I realize now was my fear that I wouldnt be able to fulfill his needs.
It didnt happen overnight and I realize now my husband's reluctance to give up his alpha attitude was as much of a struggle for him as my fear of failure was to me.
As to your desire to become a counselor for couples exploring F/m spanking. I will tell you this.
There is a need. I realize reading your blog week and week how many men are out there living with this need. One thing I have come to realize, as time passes a man's need doesnt diminish.
anna