Saturday, November 12, 2016

The Forum - Vol. 182 - Communication


"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke

Hello all.  Welcome back to The Forum - Disciplined Husbands & Disciplinary Wives.  Our weekly gathering of men and women participating or positively interested in Domestic Discipline or Female Led Relationships.

I hope you had a good week, and I am fairly certain that if you live in the USA, you had an interesting one.  I almost didn't post today.  Not because I am, like many of my friends, laying on the floor curled in the fetal position,  incoherently mumbling some variation of  "WTF? WTF? WTF? WTF?"  More because the events of this week seem so . . . consequential . . . it is hard to think about anything else.  At least it is for me.  But, as I sat here struggling with the options of (a) not posting at all; (b) posting but ignoring the one thing that is really on my mind; or (c) finding someway to connect this week's developments with the subject of this blog, it occurred to me that this blog is, in fact, all about . . . consequences.  Taking responsibility.  Getting what you deserve.  Being held accountable for the choices you make.  Those are themes that resonate a lot with me on this surprisingly sunny Saturday.


In my "real life," politics is a passion, and it is hard to set aside that aspect of myself when writing this blog, particularly this week.  But, I will still try to resist temptation.  In my "real life," however, I made the conscious decision to go in the opposite direction, speaking up and saying what I believe more directly (though most who know me would say that has never been a huge problem for me) and worrying less about being polite.  I have several friends and relatives, mainly older ones, who have no qualms about sharing those opinions on politics, religion and cultural values with me and the world via emails and Facebook posts, and some the stuff they put out there is fairly offensive, or just downright stupid.  I used to just delete the emails and ignore the posts, but I've been doing less of that this week.  If they want someone who "tells it like it is,"  they will be getting more of that from me going forward, and I will make every effort to be an equal opportunity agitator, since there are plenty of stupid, willfully ignorant things coming out of the mouths of people on both ends of the spectrum.  But, as Garrison Keillor put it so well this week,  "Resentment is no excuse for bald-faced stupidity."  So, when someone I know says something that offends my own values or that displays a willful ignorance of actual facts or history, I am going to call their ass on it.  A friend of mine observed this week that one of the biggest drivers of this incredibly divided political culture is the rise of media outlets that pander to the extremes.  Conservatives have Fox.  Liberals have CNBC.  It's good that we have competing media platforms, but the danger in it is that these openly partisan outlets become  "echo chambers" in which people sharing the same views just chatter back and forth, driving each other to more and more extreme positions, and those positions are never really challenged.  So, I intend to do some challenging, and I hope you all will do the same.

Now, to start steering this toward something resembling an actual topic, there is one non-partisan message that came through load and clear to me during this election: when trying to influence someone or get them to act, how you say something seems to have far more practical impact than what you actually say.  While it kind of pains me to say it, tone is more important than substance.  In each of the last four or five election cycles, one party nominated someone who spoke with passion and conviction, while the other side nominated someone with a more measured tone and who postured themselves as the "safer" choice.  And in each cycle that "safer" choice either lost or the bomb-thrower they ran against in the primary did far better than anyone predicted possible.  It is a lesson in the power of tone, make whatever point you want to make with strength and authority. People follow passion and strength.

Which, finally, brings me to what I chose as today's topic, though it actually comes from something Anna suggested.  There was a little debate going on in the comments last week about "asking for what you want" versus just accepting where your HoH wife takes things.  I am in the former camp.  I think that "topping from below" is very often misapplied in the context of Domestic Discipline relationships, and failing to communicate openly about what you want and need is probably the single biggest impediment to these relationships succeeding or even getting off the ground.  Looking at the poll I left up for a year regarding readers' "DD status," almost a third said they want a DD relationship but aren't in one.  I wonder how many of those aren't in one because they can't bring themselves to ask for it, because of embarrassment or fear of rejection or because they themselves see their desires as "weird."

So, Anna's suggested topic was along the lines of, how honest have you been in communicating to your spouse what you want out of your DD or FLR relationship and what you would like it to be?  This one really applies to those on both ends of the paddle.  Men, to what extent have you told your wife why you want DD?  Have you told her openly and honestly what you think it does or would do for you, her or the marriage? Have you been open about what emotional need it serves?  Have you given her specific examples of the sternness or strictness with which you would like to be led or held accountable?  For the Disciplinary Wives, have you told your husband honestly how much power you are or are not comfortable wielding?  Have you been honest with him--and even with yourself--about the extent to which you like, or don't like, delivering discipline and being in charge? Have you been clear about the things that piss you off and what you want him to change?  If you want to take things to a different level, have you communicated that to him?

I'm also curious as to what form such communications have taken.  Long talks?  Emails? Journals?  Or, perhaps something more creative?  I'll share again a little more than I usually do.  I've said before that a year or so ago my wife decided to impose a rule that I have to keep a journal and give it to her regularly.  It is supposed to contain a self-report of my behavior issues, but also what I want and feel.  Which is sometimes tough for a guy.  I do find that it works best when I am most open and leave myself the most vulnerable.  But, it also sometimes feels like I am just repeating over and over what I want or need and also trying to reassure her and positively reinforce when she takes more control.   Which is all well and good but, like this blog, it sometimes seems more than a little repetitive.  Recently, I got kind of bored with the whole process, and I decided to try something new.  After the exchanges with Aunt Kay, I was thinking about the Fiction Stories section on the Disciplinary Wives Club website. There was one in particular, entitled Even More, that always really resonated with me.  The arc of the story began with a husband earning a spanking and being told in a call from his wife to expect one when he got home from work, then his thoughts wandered to how he originally asked to try DD, how his first disciplinary spanking played out, and then an account of what happened when he did get home that night.   Thinking about that story and others that have encapsulated some of my own DD history and desires, it occurred to me that my wife is a pretty visual person and, when she reads it tends to be fiction.  (I am the opposite.  I devour history and biographies and business tomes.  It occurred to me that in my journal entries, I was talking to her in the language and tone that works for me -- fact based and analytical -- when maybe what she needed was something more visual and story-like.

So, I spent an afternoon writing a story that was sort of based on how we started but was built on a fictional scenario in which the main character (clearly me, though I wrote it in the third-person using assumed names) has screwed up on several things and gets a call from his wife telling him he will be spanked that night, and then he reminisces on how he came to be in that position, his dread and anticipation, and the event itself.  I tried to use the dialogue to illustrate how stern and strict my ideal HoH would be in conveying her anger and disappointment, her expectations, what was going to happen as a consequence, etc.  And, I used my character's inner dialog to explain the emotions that a disciplined husband really goes through and the motivations underlying it.

I have to say, that exercise in creative writing did turn out to be far, far more effective than any journal entry I have given her this year.  I noticed an almost immediate change in her tone and her comfort level with being very stern and assertive.  So, for us it worked, probably because it gave her a concrete image of how stern and strict I am comfortable with her going, and it happens to comport with where she really does want to take things. 

So, what has worked for you in communicating your needs and desires? Other ideas on how to tell your spouse what you want and need?

Have a good week.

32 comments:

  1. I'm sure most women have inhibitions about spanking a man, particularly for discipline. I frequently wonder how many presently vanilla women would be interested in this concept if the inhibitions were removed for her and she knew that it would be kept confidential.

    Perhaps communication on this subject in a vanilla relationship could bring this out in a woman. I can't help wondering if a fair number of women would find the concept of being able to discipline their man to be appealing if she felt that it wasn't "wrong" to do so. It would be fascinating to see how if effective communication could achieve this.

    I_ObeyHer
    (my FetLife name)

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    1. To I_ObeyHer from Joe2,

      I can only give my personal experience. But what you said is what happened to me. I almost killed my marriage to my wife by asking this. It took direct intervention by her parents to let her know that what I asked for was a small issue compared to the big problems that a lot of relationships face (infidelity, alcohol abuse, money problems... ).

      Now, years later, we have a relationship that is very close and I am more even tempered. Interestingly enough, my wife has said on numerous occasions that she has become a better wife because now she knows what I am thinking and feeling and she has the tools to influence how I feel and act. Tools that I gave her with a deep desire that she use them.

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  2. Dan
    Both Peter and I will write more on the topic later but just had to say BRAVO ! NO MATTER WHAT YOUR POLITICAL BELIEF IF WE DONT SPEAK UP WE HAVE NO RESPECT FOR THE TENETS OF OUR COUNTRY!

    Anna
    P.S. Perhaps my comment speaks to both topics today !

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  3. I ended more dates by being given a straight answer when sexual desires were brought up. The worse would be in bed the next morning and the few times it was asked I would get an erection and mostly she would say that is not for me. The woman I married was not into that, but to my surprise she continued to date me. It was of all things her Mother that brought up the subject. Some woman she is, very open minded, means what she saids, does not shock or surprise easily. At times I wished she was younger, she is that type of person. It was maybe six months or so dating, that her Mother mentioned I needed a spanking, attitude, behavior, and such. She meant it to, said it with a smile and told her daughter it was long overdue. We talked about it when we got back to our apartment, asked if I really wanted to be spanked, I told her yes and nothing light, I meant a spanking. She said she would think about it and a few days later, Saturday morning stepping out of the shower, she stood waiting, holding a large hairbrush, soon across her lap, I've been wanting this so long, but soon learned she knew how and my squirming, pleading did not stop the spanking. I danced around the room crying, rubbing until told to face the wall. Of all the times for her mother to show up, seeing me she said about time dear, and very nice job. She told her mother I messed up her pants, the mother said that can be washed. What I did not know that a few days later making love to her, she mentioned I was better than before. A spanking is what you need she said with a smile, I looked and smile at her, she admitted should have been done when I first brought up the subject. This really opened up the communication needed, we have been married a little over a year, the spankings are given when she decides, they are not fun spankings, her mother gave her a nice large hairbrush that gets my attention. I feel so much better, the spankings I need, also a strong woman. Shawn

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  4. Could not agree more with your point "Ask and you shall relieve". My wife is extremely knowledgeable about the DWC and I know for a fact that if I ask for more I will get it. But my hang up is that the asking kind of negates the whole thing for me. I need it to be her "command" from the beginning.

    Your Post has inspired me to have a conversation with her explaining all that. (she is very receptive, and open-minded. She will want to hear it, I know). It has always been very difficult for me to talk about it, even with her. Plus I know, for certain, that once I have this conversation, I will be doubting my sanity when she dramatically ratchets up the disciplinary activity (Which is a 100% certain that she will).

    We shall see if the "inspiration" ultimately results in action on my part........

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    1. Hi Tomy. Glad to hear it inspired you. I agree with you 100% that asking is not ideal and many of us would love to have the iconic DWC wife who takes charge with strict and firm control from the beginning. And, I'm sure that does happen. Some women also are just natural leaders who have no problem stepping up and maybe even instigate a strong DWC relationship. But, the reason I went down the maintenance spanking route I described last week, and the reason I focused on communications as an offshoot of that is that I would rather get something closer to the level of strictness I would like and that I think she does too, even if it takes me kind of pushing the process until it becomes natural to her.

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    2. Yep. It would take so little for me to radically up the ante around here. When she does decide discipline is warranted,I get "more than I can handle". So I have mixed emotions about talking to her about it. But I think I will.

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    3. It's always the same - "Be careful what you wish for . . ." Fortunately or unfortunately for me, my wife is not quite as dependable as yours in ramping things up, so my ass sometimes does avoid what my mouth tried to get us into . . .

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    4. Tomy Nash & Dan

      Let me give you a quote from Anna, who can give a very stinging discipline session.
      " If you want a lighter discipline then behave and when you break the rules we
      have together instituted, you suffer the consequences"
      I speak with experience I am writing this, still feeling a correction she gave me on
      friday evening.
      peter

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  5. I initiated a 'spanking relationship' with most of the girls I dated in my 'teens by spanking them (in various states of undress) while fully expecting that they might demand 'equal time' -which some of them did, including the one who became my first wife. Gradually (but in short order), J. grew more assertive and it became the norm that I would be spanked at her own discretion (typically for some actual misdemeanor on my part) whereas she might be spanked only if she agreed to it. We never really worked out these 'rules' but they were tacitly understood. Because J. made a point of telling a few of her friends how she spanked me - and occasionally did under their eyes! N., who was one of those friends (and whom I later married after J. died) simply followed J's example - and made it, if anything, even more one-sided... without either of us feeling the need to work out an explicit "agreement"... Thus, "communication" is very much on a case-by-case basis: I am ordered to "get ready" to be punished for a reason that we both understand, and no discussion is allowed.

    L.

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    1. Thanks, L. Sounds like in your case, lack of express communication about details didn't hold anything back.

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  6. Dan
    Just a thought I had while speaking with a few of my group of moms, the other day. I hasten to add it was not about discipline, but I will translate it into the topic here.
    Gentlemen, imagine if you would that one day after a few years of marriage your wife came to you and
    told you she needed you to spank and discipline her. So you go along, perhaps nervous you might hurt
    her. At the end of the first session, she tells you harder. Tell me how would you handle it.
    All this leads me to say a change like this takes time, patience and most of all listening to what she is
    telling you. Trust me put in the time and being open to discussing all the questions that may occur.
    I am so grateful that Peter and I have found a path that works for us.
    anna

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    1. Hi Anna. I think that is a great way to illustrate the different perspectives at play here. It's also why I understand when some spouses just can't do it. I would personally have a really hard time being on the other end of this and spanking my wife. I can possibly see disciplining another man, but I just have a really deep seated aversion to hurting a woman, and I don't know if I could ever bring myself to do it even if she wanted it. There are some lines people just can't cross without violating who they are at their core, and it's something we all need to keep in mind.

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    2. Dan
      When you love someone, and you see it as a need you would be surprised at what you will do to make your partners more fulfilled..perhaps the punishment for you would be to tear up her charge accounts. : )
      anna

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    3. That could be. Or taking away a couple of TV programs she is addicted to!

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    4. Dan

      I hope you didnt mean any of the Housewives series!

      anna

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  7. Dan, Your wink-and-a-smile comment "be careful what you wish for." could not have been a more prophetic comment.

    There's a new sheriff lady town. And yours truly is getting some rules.

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    1. Wow! Do tell! For what it's worth, I'm having the same experience as a result of the multiple check-ins each week and, I'm not sure what else might have finally freed up her inner Domme. But, it is definitely happening.

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  8. I think what you are referring to as multiple check-ins is the same thing here. In our case, my wife has been a role model for the DWC way of life for a long time. But things went kind of dormant There was no other way it could have gone given the "circumstances" which included her physical health.

    Once she was in better health again I did get occasional discipline, and it wasn't trivial. We recently had a good talk about DWC things, mostly motivated by discussions here, and it was like flipping a light switch. Just like that she gladly took charge again.

    Like before, here are several areas that I need to monitor and report on weekly. And I need to be able to give her an accurate update anytime she wants it.

    Truth be told, I am very happy about it. I need her guidance to fulfill my potential both work-wise and with respect to being much more conscientious about being a great hubby.

    Yesterday she decided to make sure that have a keen reminder of what her real disciplinary sessions are like. And just to keep it fun for her, she had me choose 5 implements from her collection of literally hundreds of them. That was an interesting experience.

    Chatting afterwards she said it hardly matters which implement is being used. It's all about how it's being used. I must agree. I thought I would in some way prefer the strap over a paddle. And of course she was right. Which ever she was using at the moment was extremely effective.

    I really should not even be here writing. I should be focusing on assignments. Which is what I am going to do right now.

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    1. J. also occasionally allows me to select one among her "collection" of disciplinary tools (which is not nearly as large as your wife's!) but I must admit it makes little difference - from my own "receiving end". I may choose the martinet over the riding crop, but what matters most is how many will be delivered (and that's entirely up to her)

      L.

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    2. So true. Once they are ebbing applied, what ever made them seem "more appealing" goes out the window.

      But still, for me having to select the actual ones was difficult. I don't know how to describe it. Closest I can come is when as a kid I had to wait outside the principal's office until she was ready for me

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    3. Oh the "hiatus" is more than over. I'm living in a whole new, interesting, world.

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  9. Dan

    Let me start by saying i dont contribute often, but know both my wife and I read your blog several times a week. The interchange and the ideas have inspired us to communicate more. That seems to be the answer
    to most of our conflicts. Both my wife and I seem to be fashioning our own way by incorporating many of the ideas suggested here. For us we take half an hour walk every evening before dinner, to just check in and assess how we are doing. IT WORKS FOR US !

    scott

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    1. Scott,that is great. Whatever works. And, just for me personally, I am a HUGE friend of walks, before or after dinner. There is not much that clears you as much as that walk

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  10. In hindsight, I guess I've been extremely lucky. My wife and I "met" on a spanking site, her a sub to my Dom. Over the years, having switched only a handful of times, she noticed 2 things each time. First was the giveaway sign all us blokes make when we're really turned on and second was the feeling she got from being in charge, dishing out the punishment and giving orders. So one day, she sat me down and told me she wasn't going back to being my sub anymore and that was that. Having been on the receiving end, she already had that unique insight into the needs of sub. The intensity and frequency of my spankings ebbs and flows as a result of our busy lives, etc and I've found it best for us if I allow for this, remaining grateful for what I receive, especially when I know so many men are starving in this respect!

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  11. Grateful and non-judgemental. A man of wisdom for sure.

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  12. My wife spanks me but usually requires that I ask for it. This means I don't get paddled as often as I should. It's not so much I'm embarrassed to ask as there seems never to be a place in a conversation where I can ask. I has to come as a pure non sequiter. It startles me when I hear myself ask. It comes from a place in consciousness where I'd like to be always but can only manage it via spankings.
    I always have to take off my pants after getting the bath brush. Usually I have to lie across a rather high bed at the side. She direct all swats on the sit spots or very near them. I asked for this as it's more painful to lie each swat directly upon another. My bottom is always quite red but rarely bruised or marked. I wish she would take more time with the spanking and leaves my bottom sore and marked the next day.

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  13. That "directly asking" is extremely embarrassing for me. It goes totally against my nature. But, she has laid the specific expectation on me that part of our DWC lifestyle is that I am to let her know if I need it.

    Truth is I still very rarely do that. It's probably the one area I am most out of compliance with.

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