Saturday, June 25, 2016

The Forum - Vol. 163 - Rehabilitation v. Punishment?

“Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, 'Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous?' Actually, who are you not to be? You are a child of God. Your playing small does not serve the world. There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you. - Marianne Williamson

 Hello all  Welcome back to The Forum - Disciplined Husbands & Disciplinary Wives.  Our weekly gathering of men and women who are participating, or interested in participating, in Domestic Discipline or Female Led Relationships.  I hope you all had a great week. Mine was a little stressful, because of some interactions on the job front.  It brought to mind Marisa's observation from last week: "That "humbling function" allows you to let go of that ego, accept authority and become the (mostly) wonderful, charming and loving men you really are It frees you to be yourself and that is what we are after."  On the surface, it may seem a little inconsistent with the quote above, which is all about not dumbing yourself down just so others will feel more comfortable.  But, as Marisa's point emphasizes, it is hard to let the "real" you come through when your ego keeps getting in the way.  It used to bother me a little that there might be some inconsistency between disciplining someone for bad behavior, and the acceptance and peacefulness I was exploring through things like meditation and mindfulness.  I then remembered that Zen masters often "help" trainees meditate -- by hitting them with a stick!

Last week's discussion was great.  One of the best we've had in a while in terms of sheer entertainment.  It reinforced to me that compared to some of you, my DD relationship is downright boring.  When I first posted that topic, I thought it might not get much response because few people might have experienced being taken out of an event and punished.  But, it seems to be more common than I thought, and I am incredibly happy that we suddenly have so many strong and assertive women participating in this Forum and taking those kind of assertive actions to keep their men in line.
  
From time to time, we get a question about whether DD "works," and it is usually clear from the context that the reader is defining "works" in terms of does it eliminate the behavior that led to the discipline session.  There seems to be an unstated assumption that eliminating the behavior is THE goal of domestic discipline.  But, is it?  Why make that assumption?  There is a long-standing, and probably unresolvable,  debate in the criminal justice community about whether the goal of our justice system is rehabilitation, deterrence, punishment, or maybe all at the same time.  So, why assume that the entire goal of DD is deterring future bad behavior? Might another legitimate goal just be punishing the past act?  Allowing the wife to express her disapproval in a way that really makes an unmistakable point? And, from the other side of the paddle, how about wanting some penance and consequences.? There is this assumption that wanting to be spanked is inconsistent with "real" discipline, but isn't that true only if you don't allow that the recipient may have an unmet need for consequences and enforced boundaries?  Inviting consequences is not the same as being very sorry when you actually get them.

In terms of whether it really is deterrence that motivates us, I got curious about the extent to which the deterrence idea was prevalent in the stories on the Disciplinary Wives Club website, given how many of us have been influenced by it.  It's hard to say that those stories really reflect any premise that Domestic Discipline serves any one particular goal.  Many of the men are spanked for repetitive bad behavior, so while there is a theme of escalating the punishment to reduce the behavior, there doesn't seem to be a notion that all bad behavior will go away by virtue of being in a Domestic Discipline relationship, or even that it actually will be reduced.  It was also interesting to note the extent to which, while we have talked a lot about the importance of consent, in many of the stories it is either the wife who imposes the disciplinary relationship, or the man may ask for it but she quickly gives him "more than he bargained for."  So, while in theory we may say that deterrence is the goal, our motivation, as reflected in the actual content of stories that inspired many of us to pursue this lifestyle, seems a lot more complicated and often seems to involve being involuntarily subjected to a real consequence for bad behavior, regardless of whether it succeeds in deterring us in the future.

That was a very long-winded way of introducing the topic of, in your relationship is DD mainly about reducing certain behaviors?  Exclusively?  Primarily?  Or, is it as Marisa says, also about humbling and personal growth?  Is it also about penance?  Boundaries and consequences?  And, from the other side of the paddle, is it only about correcting behavior, or also about being able to express dissatisfaction?  Or about growing your own sense of power and authority?

By the way, there is a great discussion on whether "wanting" punishment is inconsistent with actually being punished, from the M/f side of DD, on the Taming of the Shrew blog: https://ashrewtamed.blogspot.com.

Have a great week.  As always, if you are new to this Forum, please stop by the Guestbook (see tab above) and tell us a bit about yourself and your Domestic Discipline or FLR relationship.
 

47 comments:

  1. Dan,

    I think that this comment of yours really hits the nail on the head, "Might another legitimate goal just be punishing the past act? Allowing the wife to express her disapproval in a way that really makes an unmistakable point? And, from the other side of the paddle, how about wanting some penance and consequences.?"

    I think that when a woman has the power to punish her man it clearly demonstrates her power and authority. Corporal punishment is very direct, straightforward and most decisive. I think that making an "unmistakeable point" really sums it up.

    I_ObeyHer

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  2. This weeks subject is really thought provocative. I got into DD because I knew I had behavior that needed to change - so one objective was to change that behavior. If I did, I would be both a better person and a better husband and that's what I wanted to be. In truth my wife was also getting more upset with my behaviors toward her that I knew I had to get under control if the marriage was to survive. Giving my wife the power to correct these behaviors using corporal punishment, if she would agree, and she did, I believed would by the motivation I needed to do what I knew I should be doing (but that I wasn't able to do that on my own). It was critical for this to work, that my wife would strictly enforce the rules agreed to making the punishment harsh when I erred. She does just that and it has improved my behavior substantially. My wife sees the benefits of domestic discipline (I'm not such a pain in the ass anymore, I'm more understanding of her needs and feelings, and I pitch in on chores I previously avoided). In my case when I do something that results in punishment, I accept it as a penance as well, not only for the current offence, but for guilt feelings for things that I have done earlier in our marriage that I have never confessed to and never will. My wife never tries to humiliate me and if she did so I would rebel. Spanking is the sole punishment, nothing else. However, my wife has learned to really make her spankings severe enough to be dreaded by me. I have no doubt a good number of them are payback to even the score. I can take a good thrashing, but it does not negatively impact my ego, nor would I want a relationship that did. I don't think my wife would like it if I did not continue to be a strong person for it was one of the reasons she married me. However, I think she does get satisfaction in her power to put me in my place when she feels it is necessary. Yet our agreement and understandings are strictly private and shared with no one.

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    1. Sounds like it has worked out great for you both on every front!

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  3. For us at times it's a penance thing and we actually just talked about this the other day. Sometimes when things aren't going well a good spanking clears the air. She will be patient for so long until she says " we need to have a discussion ". As I go over her knee the lecture begins followed by the paddling. She never spanks when angry and is given out of love. When it's over all is forgiven and I feel the weight being lifted away. It's often times difficult to endure but a sore bottom is a small price to pay for happiness and harmony.

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    1. I completely agree with this. For me, the knowledge I've broken a rule or fallen short of his expectations for me is the real punishing aspect. The spanking itself is a sort of penance, way to make amends, and also a connection with one another that clears the air and strengthens our bond. They're all irrevocably entwined.

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  4. I'd be curious to know if anyone sees or makes a distinction between "punishment" and "revenge" or "payback"? I had a discussion with a DD practitioner this week who acknowledged that there is a difference, but that it can be a fuzzy one.

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  5. I see the latter two as the ends or the justification, while punishment is the means. This from Wikipedia: "Punishment is the authoritative imposition of an undesirable or unpleasant outcome upon a group or individual, in response to a particular action or behaviour that is deemed unacceptable or threatening to some norm. . . . Justifications for punishment include retribution, deterrence, rehabilitation, and incapacitation.'

    I think that reflects that punishment is an act, and it may serve various goals or by justified by different theories.

    On the question of whether discipline should be for revenge or payback, I personally think it can and there isn't a problem with that, if both parties are OK with that. One function of DD can be equalizing the power relationship, giving the woman a way to express her displeasure or hurt feelings in a concrete way. If it is motivated in some way by wanting payback for something that hurt her, I don't personally have any problem with that in the context of a consensual relationship.

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    1. From my personal perspective, I would find my dominant spanking me for revenge to be sort of immature, or coming from a place of selfishness, and I'd have a hard time respecting him for that.

      In our dynamic, we make a distinction between discipline (an act specifically intended to teach) and punishment, which would be more like retribution. Discipline is administered in love, with a specific goal in mind, but punishment isn't necessarily the same thing.

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    2. Hi J. Girl. Thanks as always for dropping by. See my longer responses to some of your comments, below. I admit that I am more comfortable than some with the idea that retribution (though I kind of like the term "payback") plays some role and that that's OK. It also may be one area where there is a slightly different dynamic between F/m and M/f oriented relationships. I admit that the idea of M/f retribution does bother me, because the historical power dynamic there is already so unequal, as is the relative physical power. I'm not uncomfortable, however, with the idea of my wife getting some sense of "payback," because it is really just the other side of the coin to my need for penance, and because if I really had a problem with it, the reality is I am physically stronger and could stop things if they got out of hand. Though, I also admit that part of me wishes the latter were not so, because one of te things that I find morbidly attractive about DD is the prospect of being taken wholly out of the control loop.

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  6. Hi Dan,
    This is a good topic. I want to answer that deterrence of his childish and unacceptable behavior is my reason for spanking him. It was my original reason encouraged by my mother (appropriately) and I had reason to believe it was something he wanted too but was unable to admit he felt he needed boundaries (now he readily admits it. But the desire to punish him is also part of it and was probably there from the beginning. I am getting stricter with him which means his appointments with Ms. Strap happen once or twice a month) Controlling his behavior is still what motivates me to consistency and follow-through. But pay-back from a sound spanking is part of what I get out of it too. I guess what I am saying and a little shocked at saying it but even if I got no behavior rewards from spanking him I still would do it for punishment. Maybe I am turning into a bitch but men just do better with boundaries and consequences.
    Holly

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    1. Hi Holly. Thanks for the very honest comments. When I went through the DWC stories in preparation for this week's topic, it seemed pretty clear that "pay-back" was at least as big a part of the motivation as deterrence, so I suspect you are in good company. Personally, boundaries and consequences are absolutely central to why I practice this kind of relationship. As always, thanks for contributing.

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    2. Holly,

      Have NO worries about being a "Bitch". Anyone married to a real "Bitch" could not be happy. And your Hubby definitely is.

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    3. Holly:

      Please don't allow your concerns to perpetuate the "bitch" myth. I'm pretty sure you are a strong woman, and there's nothing wrong with that. I'm also sure that the disciplined men here will confirm that they desire a strong woman to take control.

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    4. Holly, you said:

      “Maybe I am turning into a bitch but men just do better with boundaries and consequences.”

      Never have I read a sentence in which I agree so much with one half, yet disagree the other half.

      Let’s take the half I agree with first:

      “ - - men just do better with boundaries and consequences”.

      Yes, and those boundaries should set and enforced by their female authority figure, be it mother, teacher, aunt, landlady, boss, girlfriend and/or wife. This goes beyond DD and corporal punishment - but within the context of a LTR, certainly DD with CP is the preferred operating system.

      Now for the part I disagree with:

      “Maybe I am turning into a bitch”

      Well, maybe you are now more demanding and exacting, but this is hardly being a bitch. A bitch is a woman who nags, whines, complains and yes, bitches. But a No Nonsense Lady is a woman who sets some simple rules and strictly enforces them. She is a woman who only says something once. Whether it is for her man to do something or not do something, she never repeats herself (the opposite of nagging, whining, complaining and bitching). She simply retrieves her paddle (or other preferred implement) and uses it - usually as her first response to misbehavior or bad attitude.

      Carl H

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    5. Thanks to all for the reassuring words. I agree with all that was said but sometimes asserting your self brings out all those negative messages our society promotes about firm determined women.Have no doubt that I intend to continue to be strong and firm not just because my husband needs it ( boy or boy doe he need it) but also because I need it too. Thanks again
      Holly

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    6. Understood, and I really hope this blog becomes a vehicle for "firm determined women" to encourage each other.

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  7. Hi Dan,
    I think in a long term DD relationship, punishment becomes the focus, rather than radical behavior change. The reason for this is that spanking reduces the incidence of some behaviors but probably can’t eliminate them forever. For me at least there are some behaviors that will probably never be completely eradicated and so I get spanked over and over for similar problems. We have talked about this and she expects some chronic misbehavior. Although there are two thing she will not endure (smoking and any kind of untruthfulness) and she has ended permanently both of them. Unauthorized masturbation is rare and is punished severely but it’s still a work in progress. So excepting these three areas, I have been spanked countless times for bad language, moodiness, exceeding my wine limits, reckless driving, temper tantrums and many other things. My wife knows and accepts I have some chronic misbehaviors and so when she spanks me for example for reaching for that third glass of wine she knows that spanking isn’t going to stop me from doing it again in a month or two or three. So she is punishing me knowing the effect won’t be permanent. She is fine with that (excepting smoking and untruthfulness.) The other vein in this is that most men don’t go through a spanking thinking about long term behavior change. We are thinking I was stupid enough to get in trouble again with her and I am being punished for it. I am paying a price for what I did and this is what I deserve and probably need. But how could I forget how much this hurts and how much I want to avoid it. But forget we do and we are lucky enough to have women in our lives who correct and change what they can and make sure we do penance for what they can’t (permanently) change.
    Alan

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    1. Hi Alan. This all is true for my relationship as well.

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  8. For us, the DD and D/s in our relationship are about our entire relationship, and not much about improving behaviour to begin with.
    Communication and trust have improved for both of us long before there were real disciplinary spankings (of which I get very few as my husband is generally happy enough with my behaviour). And these are much more important for the quality of our relationship than the times I end up getting disciplined. The other thing that has gone up to a new level is our commitment to fulfilling each other's needs: My need for clear expectations, consistency and discipline or punishment when I don't live up to them for no good reason, and his need to rely on me, doing what I said I'd do and obeying his direction. We're a lot more focused on meeting each other's needs and turning to each other nowadays, rather than looking out how not to burden each other by being self-sufficient. And while our marriage 1.0 wasn't bad, the marriage 2.0 is so much better than neither of us wants to go back to the way it was before.
    (I wish I had time today to read all the comments that came before, but unfortunately I don't. I'll try to come back for that..)

    Willow

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    1. Hi Willow. "My need for clear expectations, consistency and discipline or punishment when I don't live up to them for no good reason, and his need to rely on me, doing what I said I'd do and obeying his direction. We're a lot more focused on meeting each other's needs and turning to each other nowadays, rather than looking out how not to burden each other by being self-sufficient." Great way to put it. I am an introvert to my core, and I struggle a lot with the kind of interdependence you describe, always naturally gravitating toward self-sufficiency. But, the kind of interdependence you describe is clearly superior, and I think it is something that people who aren't part of these relationships struggle to understand -- the discipline and chain of command isn't confining, it is freeing. That includes a certain very paradoxical "freedom" in having fewer choices. Marisa described it last week as being freed from the ego in a way that allows you to be who you really are.

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  9. Alan, can you explain how you have corrected yourself by not smoking and being truthful, yet being unable to control other behaviors. It seems your wife was successful in deterring you from those two behaviors. How did she do that?

    In my situation, domestic discipline does deter most of my faults, but certainly isn't perfect. I still get paddled for being impatient, forgetting to be considerate on occasion and an occasional temper tantrum. However, before our agreement on rules and discipline for violating them, the frequency of my offences were off the chart in those and other areas. . Once the serious paddling started the incidence of my misbehaviors became rare because I do try to avoid the punishment. Bottom, line DD is not a perfect deterrent for most of us (maybe all of us), but, at least in my case, there was one helluva improvement in my behavior. Without that threat hanging over my head I would probably revert back to where neither my wife nor I wanted me to be. When I do mess up I am disappointed in myself, feel guilt, and the paddling is penance for that failure. In spite of the pain of being soundly paddled, I feel better knowing I have paid the price. I believe my wife feels better about any injustice my behavior has caused her by giving me the pay back she knows I deserve. So when it is over, we both feel better and things get back to normal.

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    1. Would like to know who I am replying to even using a pseudonym but will try to answer the question. My wife has methods for punishing me that involve severe and prolonged corporal punishment as well as embarrassment, methods she prefers not to use ( and I very much prefer she does not use) These methods can and have eradicated certain behaviors and she will use them for things that threaten our relationship or threaten my health.Currently these are smoking, untruthfulness and unauthorized masturbation She considers many other things I do undesirable behavior to be improved but can be managed with ordinary spanking. She could alter the " no mercy" list as she sometimes calls it and actually it was originally just one behavior.
      Alan

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  10. Dan
    I am very successful in my career. To many I am the Golden Boy. It has been that way since I first began.
    It is only when I begin to believe my own publicity that Anna needs to reign me in and in the words of Ms. Marisa, needs to apply the "Humbling Function". For me a harsh session with belt, paddle or cane is the
    cord that draws me back. Brings me to the point that i can share and understand it was my bad behavior that caused the pain. In a way it is a form of penance if you like, or in my mind the way I can earn the love and caring she gives to me daily. Hard to admit that often it is only after a punishment session I can show her that hidden side that more than anything needs to be cherished.
    Peter

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    1. Hi Peter. As Marisa said last time, it's that ego that gets us in trouble every time. Everything you say here applies perfectly to me

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  11. >>>>>>"That was a very long-winded way of introducing the topic of, in your relationship is DD mainly about reducing certain behaviors? Exclusively? Primarily? Or, is it as Marisa says, also about humbling and personal growth? Is it also about penance? Boundaries and consequences? And, from the other side of the paddle, is it only about correcting behavior, or also about being able to express dissatisfaction? Or about growing your own sense of power and authority?"<<<<<<<

    Yes.

    ;-)

    Think of it this way: what is sex about? Procreation? expression of feeling? satisfying urges? connecting? playing? It's about ALL of those things. Sometimes certain ones take center stage and sometimes it's a blend. For us, DD is the same. It's not just about any ONE goal. It's about just about every possibility you mentioned. Again, maybe certain times certain ones are the main goal for that instance, but the next time it may be more about something else. And plenty of times it's a blend of a lot of them all at once. (And I think other things also come into play as well.)

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    1. I actually had the same exact thought when reading the question -- that in many ways, consensual discipline can be likened to sex. Sometimes there is only one goal, but often many that go hand-in-hand. I would say for us, the reasons we embrace DD are for behavior modification and to help me achieve my goals, but also because my husband enjoys the control, I love his dominance, and it's all just sexy as hell. The outcome is effective conflict resolution, clear communication, and a heavily eroticized relationship.

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    2. Very, very well put. As some know, I have been having some problems with a troll, who continues to send in comments ranting about DD relationships. Many of them include rants about the supposed inconsistency of getting some kind of emotional charge out of giving or receiving discipline. Your comment perfectly reflects the reality that many experience, but it would be impossible for me to explain that to him, since it's something you have either experienced or you haven't, and the dynamic something that you either desire or you don't. What I can't quite figure out with him his why he cares so much about whether the disciplinarians enjoy this all in some way, and seems so offended that they do, when the bottom line is all these relationships are entirely consensual. In fact, a huge percentage of them seem to be initiated by the party on the receiving end of the discipline. As you said below, "I craved this dynamic, and he was erotically attracted to spanking me, so he said he'd try." There is a certain amount of hypocrisy in the anti-DD crowd, in that they object to the control exercised by the doms (never acknowledging the sub WANTS this kind of relationship), and yet they themselves seem to have this overarching need to control how other people live their lives. And, who can object to effective conflict resolution and a heavily eroticized relationship!

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  12. Someone mentioned 'severe' and 'prolonged' to describe his wife's spankings/paddlings---Ours is always about the same--It is rare it is naked butt and it hurts but it is always about the same--the reasons are about the same--It is serious reason and there is no argument from me we both know at the same time when a paddlings has to settle things--We could not make it work ( and it does work fine for us) if there was not a totally high trust level and the fact no one else ever knows and that goes back 40 yrs---Is the fact that none else ever knows a factor with others

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    1. There is one person who knows of our DD relationship -- that I know of. As discussed last time, once the cat is out of the bag, who knows how many others know . . .

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  13. With me and my wife it is my behavior and not telling her things like a speeding ticket I received last month when she found out I was taken to the den for the hairbrush I would have received a spanking for the ticket but I did not tell her as I was over her lap and the hairbrush was finding its mark I ask myself why don't I just be honest !!-Robert !

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    1. Thankfully she has never spanked me for a speeding ticket. I would be perpetually red and sore.

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  14. I ask my wife that question, she said no difference. She then ask me, when being spanked, do you notice a difference, I said no. My bare bottom feels the sting of her hand and hairbrush and so a spanking is just that, a spanking and that is punishment, yes you will change unless you want another spanking.

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  15. The main reason for me to get spanked is because I bring work home with me .i have a stressful job and sometimes I don't leave it at work . I come home and be bossy and short tempered with her and the kids . I don't think she uses it for payback or anything like that if she does she don't show it.

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  16. Well that's a bit of a head scratcher of a question! Sometimes it is pure retribution (punishment) for a particular behaviour that has irked her, the timing is good and she feels like an immediate 'execution' is appropriate & necessary. She may be cross at these times, energetic and very definitely keen to make a point. It is punishment and an attempt at deterrent. I don't enjoy these at the time but I do find the memory, once the pain has died, quite exciting. Hey, we all like a powerful, motivated Lady - right?

    In calmer times, when there may have been a number of smaller transgressions, it is so much more controlled and these sessions, in our house - are mainly lesson teaching. If you do that, you get this. Over the past few years I have certainly become more considerate, less often rude, less moody and more attentive. That's rehabilitation, yes?

    But what about reward? - we are mostly all in these relationships because we have a need which being spanked satisfies. I have, at times, let her know, an email hint, maybe - subtly - that although my behaviour has been reasonable or good that nevertheless I have the 'itch' that might be nicely scratched by being taken upstairs for a good strapping. Now as the time for it to happen gets nearer I will try to get out of it but she knows me too well and often it will happen and I will be regretting it and the need in me - but only when it's actually happening.

    And I always thank her after.

    TB

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    1. I hadn't thought of the "reward" option, probably because it doesn't work that way for me and we don't do anything other than pure punishment.

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  17. Hello Dan.
    Another winner: you are on a roll.Has your wife been providing a little extra incentive to your good performance? Regarding this weeks topic, telling your husband to "strip for punishment" and to be obeyed instantly would thrill any woman and it sure does this woman. So power and punishment are part of it. But we started DD to permanently end a power struggle threatening our marriage and that is still our main motivation. I consider the thrill of exercising power over him as a nice bonus but not the main thing.Its a bad pun but the bottom line is really his bottom and the fact I control it to shape his behavior and keep stress out of our marriage. Like Holly I do admit I enjoy punishing him but only when he has crossed that line. Once he has done so, his ass is mine and he knows it.
    Marisa

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    1. Hi Marisa, sorry for the slow response. This week was a mess. But, in any event, thank you for the compliment. And, yes, she has, now that you ask. :-)

      Thanks as always for the very honest response. I like the way you put in terms of ending a power struggle. I have become a recent convert to the idea that equality in a relationship may seem like a wonderful goal, but it just doesn't seem to work. For much of the year I have been locked in a power struggle at work with someone I genuinely like. When we aren't on a project together, we are buddies. As soon as we work together, it is just never-ending head butting, because we both think we are right, and because we are peers, there is no good way to break the ties. We would actually get along better if one of us were in charge of the other. Maddening.

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  18. Hi Marisa,

    Do you ever control your husband this way in public or in front of witnesses.I can imagine the thrill and the fear of being told to "strip for punishment" in front of one of my wife's friends. I think she might actually do it if I told her I was OK with it
    Curious

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  19. Marisa

    Like you, to see my Peter strip and obey at once is a thrill.Sometimes I think you are my twin. We think so much alike. And as you and Holly haver said, I do enjoy the punishing of my man when he crosses the line.
    'HUMBLING FUNCTION" is used often now in our home.
    Thank you

    anna

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    1. Hello Anna,
      Both our boys need much of that I fear. A woman's work is never done
      Marisa

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  20. Dan, I haven't made time to stop by recently, and today decided I would make some time. What a pleasant surprise to see the nod you gave to my site. So thank you for that.

    I always enjoy the thoughtful, intelligent comments and posts that you make here. As we've discussed before, though our dynamics are different in many ways, there are many similarties. I enjoy hearing your perspective.

    As I've mentioned in a comment above, Jason and I make the distinction between discipline and punishment, with discipline being an act particularly administered with the end goal of modifying behavior, and punishment being merely the act of retribution. Initially, Jason began DD with me 3 1/2 years ago with the intent of "helping" me. I craved this dynamic, and he was erotically attracted to spanking me, so he said he'd try. As we began, we both quickly realized the benefits. I was more motivated to behave better, and he sure liked my better behavior. I didn't talk back to him anymore, or have a hissy fit over something silly. I spoke calmly and rationally to him, and we talked everything out. I took better care of myself and met my goals. Our entire home became more tranquil. From my perspective, I admired his dedication to me, and respected his calm and loving attention as well as his steadfast dedicatoin to helping meet my needs. Over time, we found that our relationship was more erotically charged, and we wanted more. So we took it deeper.

    I think many find that the initial attraction or purpose can evolve, as they find that in the application of D/s principles, many benefits emerge they didn't anticipate. Others find that certain aspects are a better fit, and they tailor their dynamic to fit their relationship.

    For us, now that mostly I do behave myself, punishment is very rare. It's an ever-present possibility, though, and with that in mind, I continue to both respect him and aim to please him. Now that behavior has been modified, and punishment is rare, we sort of had to figure out, where do we go from here? I love garnishing control to him and he loves being my dominant. We talk, and talk, and talk. So though I am still spanked if necessary for disciplinary purposes, most of the time it's stress relief or a role-affirmation spanking, because those are the types of spankings that help fuel our dynamic. Others may find discipline is the only purpose, and both are satisfied with only using spanking to that end, while still others find that keeping things to erotic only is the best fit.

    So to summarize what I'm saying here, in our case the initial goals have evolved over time, and I think that is pretty common. The needs of a couple change. It's one reason why clear and frequent communication is essential in any type of DD dynamic.

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  21. Hi J Girl. Thanks so much for dropping by. While we are on opposite ends of the F/m and M/F spectrum, we are on the same side of the paddle, and the very thoughtful comments on your blog never fail to resonate with me in some way. You state above: "I think many find that the initial attraction or purpose can evolve, as they find that in the application of D/s principles, many benefits emerge they didn't anticipate. Others find that certain aspects are a better fit, and they tailor their dynamic to fit their relationship." That is what has happened to us. A dynamic that originally began almost exclusively as punishment and stayed that way for many years has been "taken deeper" as you put it. Interestingly, while I suggested that move, she surprisingly gravitated to the dominant role a lot more readily than I expected, finding a part of her very much liked having control and exercising it. I also couldn't agree more on the need for frequent communication.

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