Saturday, July 25, 2015

The Forum - Vol. 98 - Outing as Punishment

Hello all.  I hope you had a great week.  Mine was sort of a blur, but the sun is shining on this great Saturday in July, and I'm going to do do some enjoying.

When our disciplinary wives talk, I try to listen.  Anna and Marisa suggested a topic, so in female-led fashion, I promptly serve it up as this week's topic.






We have hit on this topic before, but it is a good one.  Outing.  How out to be.  How "out" is appropriate.  Anna and Marisa offered a slightly different spin: outing as punishment or a form of control.  Anna's question was phrased as: "How many men either fear or are aroused by the concept of others discovering they are disciplined in this manner?"  Marisa added: "How many wives have 'outed'  him to a third party, plan to do so or threatened to do so?" 



Great questions, and I look forward to a good conversation on this over the upcoming week.  Have a great weekend.

Dan



38 comments:

  1. We had talked about it for a while before it happened ( her sister being told and then being spanked in front of her) . She was more positive she wanted to do it as she had revealed she spanked me to her sister receiving an encouraging response.Initially I was turned on by the idea and recognize an exhibitionist streak in myself . But when it became imminent my reaction was similar to the one I have when a spanking is imminent and that is a desperate desire to avoid it or mitigate it. I was not that upset about her sister knowing because many people play with spanking and her sister would think it was just that. But witnessing it would reveal the disciplinary character of it and that was and still is very embarrassing. Its now happened several times ( not often but over a few years) and the turn on factor is zilch while the embarrassment is maybe greater because I have to see her regularly .

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    1. Thanks, Anonymous. Those seem like very real-world reactions.

      Dan

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  2. It should become less embarrassing and more along the lines of; " oh good for you, we must compare disciplinary methods..."

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    1. It will be interesting to see whether things develop that way.

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  3. I'm not in a disciplinary relationship, so this is somewhat hypothetical. It doesn't get any more personal, this isn't something I talk about very easily. While being outed is sometimes arousing to read about in a story, it almost certainly wouldn't be if it happened to me. It would result in my feeling betrayed.

    George

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  4. Shilo's mom died on Sunday a week ago and we flew to MS for the funeral. Friday afternoon, after the funeral, I made an offhand remark about spanking him when he misbehaved. I couldn't see Shilo's reaction, but I kept a straight face, while a few of his relatives wondered aloud.

    We didn't bring any implements this time, and the mood was mostly quiet, so he got away with being slightly obnoxious towards me. I just hope he realizes that I'm not always going to give him passes like that.

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  5. Hello Dan,
    I definitely have threatened him in order to get him under control mentioning a girl friend of mine he admires. I would like to do it too, not spank him in front of her but tell her and some others that I spank him and it works. But we still live in an intolerant society and a husband spanked by his wife would be ridiculed by many.Just the opposite attitude should prevail : any man or woman who needs discipline and accepts it should be admired.By the way what Jay fears most is being revealed to another male or worse spanked in front of one.If I really wanted to punish him that way, that is what I would do
    Marisa

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    1. It is psychologically telling the extent to which men are terrified of another man knowing, but being spanked in front of another woman seems to actually fuel many fantasies.

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  6. I think a disciplinary arrangement between husband and wife is a very personal, sensitive, and confidential undertaking with the purpose of correcting undesirable behaviors that both the spanker and spankee agree need to be corrected. I agree with Marisa that any man or woman who needs discipline and accepts it should be admired. But telling even one person can proliferate just like rumors and ruin careers and even marriages. It is neither necessary nor desirable to tell anyone thinking it will enhance better behavior. I know being spanked will hurt like hell and I honestly try to avoid them, and when it is happening you want it to stop, but when it doesn't stop, it is more punishment than necessary to make me think twice about what caused this predicament. At the same time I accept them because I know they improve my behavior with my wife and with others.

    Fred

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    1. Thanks, Fred. It is true that telling one person is unlikely to limit the disclosure.. I told one person several years ago, and I now have no idea who she might have told in turn.

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    2. No one should be outed without their consent and yes if one person knows eventually others will as well. But I respectfully disagree that the threat of being spanked in front of another woman is not a deterrent to bad behavior. My wife has spanked me with her sister present and I know she will do it again if provoked. The threat of another will stop me cold and my wife has used that knowledge many times.
      Alan

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  7. What an exciting and provocative subject! What spanked husband hasn't both feared and imagines (and been titillated by) the thought of his wife telling her friend (or sister or mother) that she spanks him.

    That said, it must be emphasized that there are several possible levels to being "outed" to another woman. (I say "woman" because for most of us being outed to another man is out of the question).

    The first level is for her to simply tell a friend (or sister, etc) that she spanks him. But even here there are levels to explore. She can tell her friend privately and then inform him (or inform him beforehand as well as after). Another level that brings considerably more embarrassment (and titillation) is for her to tell her friend about their spanking relationship with him present (either on the phone or--better yet--in person). Having him listen to the conversation on the phone is bad enough but being present with the two of them discussing it would bring a whole new level of excitement to the situation. And it would open up the possibility or requiring him to describe a spanking or answer the friend's questions about his spankings.

    Of course the final level would be for his spankings to be witnessed by the other woman but even here we can distinguish levels. His wife could call her friend on the phone and have her listen to a spanking. Or she could spank her husband in another room while her friend is present in the house. In that case, the husband would not doubt attempt to keep as quiet as possible knowing all the while that the spanks themselves could clearly be heard throughout the house. And certainly he would finally break down and begin to cry out so that his ouches and pleading would be heard as well. Having to face his wife's friend after his spanking would be embarrassing indeed! The final level would be for his wife to spank him in front of her friend. I cannot imagine anything more embarrassing or titillating. I would bet every spanked husband has imagined just such a scenario and secretly hoped it would happen--just once.

    In most stories written on the subject the final stage is for the friend to spank him as well. In these stories the husband is even more humiliated by being spanked by the wife's friend, especially if she manages to bring him to tears. But in my imagination I do not find any more embarrassment or excitement by the thought of the friend spanking me than being spanked in front of her--but perhaps that is just me.

    With regard to Anna's question I think every spanked husband both fears and is aroused by the thought of another woman knowing his wife spanks him--especially if it is someone they might see frequently.

    And I would be most interested in knowing the answer to Marissa' question, although I would imagine every spanking wife has at least threatened to tell. A particularly nasty form of this treat would be to make the threat and then refuse to tell her husband whether she had followed through with the threat to tell. Imagine the poor fellow's feelings every time he encountered the possible "tellee" !!

    Well, those are my thoughts for now. Thanks for raising this most provocative subject!!

    Ken

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    1. This is another area where I don't seem to be quite typical, at least if you are right that most men find being "outed" to another woman arousing. I really don't. It's not that I find it all that fear inducing either, but it definitely doesn't fuel any fantasies for me.

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  8. To my knowledge, only one friend of my late wife's knew I was both pantied and spanked, the result of her coming in the house at a rather inopportune moment, with me in the corner, red bottom to the room and panties at my knees, and the wife upstairs, preparing for a night out. I was never spanked in her presence and she was very good about it, but did occasionally tease me about my undies and behavior.

    Never at home, but on occasion when in a part of the company where the chance of running into someone we knew was remote, she'd embarass or humiliate me regarding lingerie, having me try on panties in a Frederick's for example, or having me purchase matching panties...his and her size. A female clerk at an adult toy store once knew the paddle we were buying was for her use on my bottom, but that's about it.

    It's such a personal fact of our lives. Yes, I have fantasized of having a witness to a spanking, but now being single, it's unlikely.

    Great questions...thanks, ladies!

    mark

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    1. Yes, an adult toy store clerk is probably hard to shock or surprise.

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  9. Dan

    As I related last year in the user story section of your blog, I came to disciplining Peter in a roundabout way. It was during a session with our marriage therapist that he revealed that for some time Peter had sought out the use of a professional Domme,
    for spanking him. There was no sex involved. To be honest, I didn't believe him at the time, but agreed to speak with this woman.

    We met her and i realized at once it was as Peter had said. To be honest I wasn't very
    good at discipline and so I soon called the lady and asked for some pointers. She very
    nicely suggested that we set up an appointment for a session so that i could observe.

    It only took one session to see that my strokes were far too gentle. She suggested at before the session was over that I give Peter the final 20 with his own belt. I did. It
    seems I was a quick study as they say. I havent had to go back for a refresher course.

    Anna

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    1. Hi Anna. Yes, your transition into a disciplinary wife is almost the opposite of the scenario envisioned by this week's topic. Someone else already knew, so the embarrassment for Peter was undoubtedly related to telling you, not the other way around. It was probably great for both of you that someone accepting knew about it.

      Dan

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  10. Dan
    The most embarrassing part of this for me was telling Anna in front of our therapist. Without the therapist ever
    seeing I had to confess and later relate to the therapist my feelings of having Ms X instruct Anna jutg how to
    spank me most effectively. We still see the therapist socially now and then and I find that the most embarrassing.
    peter

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    1. HI Peter. I'm curious, how did the therapist feel about using spanking as a form of marriage therapy?

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    2. Dan

      Her feeling was that my going to this outside person was a good deal of what was keeping both Anna & I going in circles. For me to share with Anna this big secret, that I confess, often made me feel totally disloyal to my wife, was our first turning point. Our therapist felt if it worked for us and I was not forcing Anna into something, she felt that it was a good way to mend what I had damaged in our marriage.
      I feel it was our savior. I dont always like the idea of it all, but it works for us. Even Anna, at her
      toughest moment admits I am improving as both a husband and a father.
      Peter

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    3. Understood. I've always wondered if many therapists could get behind DD as a form of marriage counseling. I suspect there would be licensure and other risks associated with recommending corporal punishment. Yours is obviously a different scenario, however.

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  11. I'm in a tame flr and we don't do dd per her choice. I still think I may have gotten a little taste of an outing, undeserved.
    This happened a number of years ago in our plain jane vanilla past at a big box lumber/paint store. We had just picked up a 5 gallon bucket of paint and were waiting for them to mix it for us. As routine, the clerk asked if we wanted a stir stick for the paint which brought out a nod from me. You know paint sticks are pretty small, harmless things, but those are for 1 gallon cans. I watched as he set the 5 gallon version on the counter which she immediately picked up and tapped into her opposing open palm. She smiled and looked at him saying this might come in pretty handy at home for keeping order, won't it?, and then looked at me. He countered with a nervous 'er, eh, he, he, I'm not going near that one'. It gave me kind of a strange feeling as I walked away carrying the paint and she the stick. JT

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    1. Sounds like your wife had some FLR/DD leanings going back a long time! Thanks for sharing.

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  12. The thought of my wife spanking me in front of others is a major fantasy of mine. Can't see it happening unless she got really mad at me, and I don't think I would want the kind of spanking I would get then.

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  13. I was "outed" in a way, when my Mistress Wife called me one day to ask if it would be ok to reveal intimate details of our life to her bestie. Her friend was explaining things in her own marriage that weren't going so well and Mistress thought that explaining the benefits of living in a FLM would be helpful to her friend. I told her it would be ok to reveal our intimate details.

    Now, none of this was done with a humiliation or the threat of humiliation in mind. Rather it was done in order for Mistress to be able to help explain to her friend something that she thought would be helpful, at least to consider. There have open acknowledgements between her friend and me about her knowledge of our situation. Those conversations were rather "clinical" in that her friend was mostly interested in what my perspective was in living a FLM. She has known me for years and as always known me to be "alpha-like", emotionally strong and otherwise dominant in most aspects of my life outside of my marriage. That being said, I'd be lying if I didn't admit that there is equal amounts of concern and excitement knowing that this woman is aware of the submissive things I am subject to in my marriage.

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    1. Hi SHIP,
      I had a similar experience with the girlfriend who introduced me to adult discipline. Her life long friend was struggling in a marriage quickly self destructing with a nice guy who was also pretty immature and irresponsible . My girlfriend asked me if she could reveal her practices to her girlfriend and if I would sit and talk to her and explain how I felt and why it worked for us. There was sexual excitement in the idea as well as concern not so much about being outed but what this woman would think of me because I did like her and wanted her respect. I did consent and later took part in several three way conversations with both women and as you experienced it was somewhat "clinical" almost like being interviewed. I later was spanked once when the girlfriend was in the house able to hear it happen and two other times over the speaker phone.I never learned for sure if her girlfriend did start discipline with her husband but they did stay married so something good happened

      Alan

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  14. I hope it's not too late to add to this one. I've described my situation before but mostly in terms of the freedom being out has given us and also the dominant thrill it gives Rosa. However, in having discussed this, Rosa also fully acknowledges the disciplinary aspect of letting someone else know as being a very real and desired 'extra'.

    As for me, I have written before that being out in the 'clinical discussion' way is actually quite easy for me. I find FLR/DD to be a very interesting topic and I don't mind sharing what I know or experienced with curious, trustworthy people. But to be warned to 'behave or else' or worse......be told outright in front of others that I WILL be punished for whatever it was I did, is a very effective punitive element. Even if the punishment is private, the fact that others know is very embarrassing. It's like others theoretically knowing how we live live is one thing.....but when theory becomes a real and specific instance .....it's very different. Even at home it's that way. We've been living this way for years now and everyone knows. On occasion a general comment, reference, or even good-natured joke about the fact that Rosa spanks me will come out from someone and it usually doesn't bother me. But, if I do something and am due to be spanked for it, Rosa tends to make it a point to be totally open about it. When she sort of announces that she is going to spank me, I feel much more embarrassed than if she just quietly snuck off with me to do it.

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    1. Hi KD,

      Appreciated your comment and reflects my experience.We are not " out" to the extent you are but several people know I am spanked and one has been present when it happened. My wife has announced several times that I am going to be spanked when others were present but what embarrasses me more is her telling someone I was spanked for ( fill in the blank) Her threatening a spanking is still a little bit titillating but having her declare she already did it while I am standing there unable to deny it is deeply embarrassing but also empowering to her. I think it is the closest she comes to being turned on by spanking me.
      Alan

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  15. As I read the comments on this topic I actually started tearing. You see my wife did "out" me in front of someone. She had threatened to do it on numerous occasions and I begged, pleaded and cried for her not to spank me in front of this person. I thought it was an empty threat, but one day I really made her angry and she did it. She spanked me. She spanked me in front of my brother in law. Another man. The other posters who mentioned it are absolutely right. I thought being outed in front of a man was out of the question. Now that it has been done I will never feel like a man again.

    I feel so humiliated. To make matters worse, I am not particularly well endowed. I don't know what my brother in law thinks, but he saw everything and I cried like a baby. I have been depressed ever since it happened about six moths ago.

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    1. This should not have happened without your consent.She may have felt you needed a lesson only to be taught that way but she abused her authority and your trust. You should be angry but not depressed. Chances are your brother in law has spent time over his own wife's lap and in any case his opinion is not important if he took part in a clearly non consensual spanking
      Marisa

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    2. Thanks for your kind reply. You say I should feel angry, but I feel the way I feel. My brother in law is not married but I appreciate you trying to cheer me up by trying to make me feel like more of an equal with my brother in law. The fact remains that he saw me get spanked and he saw my poor excuse for a penis. Perhaps he is spanked by someone, perhaps his penis is even smaller than mine. I admit seeing that for myself would help me cope. At least then we would be equals again. The only consolation that I have in this whole thing is that he did not make any comments, tease me or say anything, He was there, but not an active participant. Part of me would like to talk to him to get his feelings on what happened, but another part of me doesn't want to acknowledge that it even happened. It hurts. It hurts more than the physical pain, but we shall get past this.

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    3. I want to echo Marisa's comment. She abused her authority and obviously caused a very serious problem. If you haven't talked to your wife about this you need to. If she cannot control her behavior, then she has no business controlling yours. If she something like this again, then you are in an abusive relationship, because she is taking your fetish and using it against you. I am a big believer in a "safe word." It would have prevented this.

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  16. If there's such a thing, I'm a half a disciplined husband because I'm still disciplined my my ex-partner even though we parted almost 10 years ago. Neither of us are in long term relationships and we're still very good friends and so continuing the DD relationship still works for us both. She doesn't discipline anyone else and in her personal life is a busy business profesional in finance working at home or visiting clients which makes arranging visits for discipline at her house very easy. At first she'd say not Tuesdays or not until after 4 on Tuesdays because it was housekeeper's day but she stopped saying it and thought because she'd told me enough times.
    One day I visited her for my usual monthly review. It was late afternoon but I can't remember which day but I know it wasn't a Tuesday. I pressed the door bell and the door was opened by a lady who I didn't recognise but who knew me and invited me in. As she walked towards the kitchen, I made my way into the dining room where as expected, my ex was sitting at the table waiting for me. Invited to sit down, we began my review but I was uneasy knowing this woman was there so I spoke quuietly.
    10 minutes or so later, the lady came into the room with a tray of coffee and said she was finished for the day but that she'd got everything ready and so my ex thanked her and said she'd see her next week.
    After she'd gone it was explained that she was the housekeeper and unlike me knew I was to be caned so she'd got the upstairs room ready for it. To say I was stunned is an under statement but then I thought I'd not seen her in the last 18 months and probably won't see her again soon so what's the problem and so we got on with the review as I then knew was led upstairs to be caned.
    The lady wasn't there for the next couple of visits so I saw the incident as a one off and as long as we avoided Tuesdays there'd be no problem but then the next visit she was there and since Tuesday seems to have become the favoured day she's been there for most visits since.
    One day when it was time for my monthly review I turned up as usual but noticed my ex's car was not outside on the road. She was still with a client and running late. Half expecting the housekeeper to be there I rang the door bell and sure enough she opened the door. She invited me and over a coffee explained she'd known all along admired me for it saying all men need discipline but few were. She'd been wanting to meet me for a long time but was worried about embarassing me so decided to introduce herself slowly. All of a sudden everything seemed above board and my original shock of our first meeting her was replaced by a strange kind of self pride and a mutual understanding. It wasn't long after that that she witnessed me in all my naked splendour being caned and so rather than be outed by someone else, I think I near enough outed myself and since then three other ladies have got to know about my need for discipline although none have been present or even near at the time.

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  17. I told my wife amount my fantasies and fetishes on our second date. She went home and called three of her best friends and said you won't believe what this guy just told me on our date. So her friends have known about me all along. 20 years later. Lots and lots of talking. Lots of sharing and the 5 of us still enjoy a disciplinary relationship. I spend Saturdays doing household chores for what are now our friends. The ladies sometimes call on a weekday and ask if they can "borrow" me. They will blow off steam through a discipline session.

    The outing at the time was relatively easy. It was a new relationship relatively no risk. If we didn't hit it off I would likely never see them again.

    The outing once we were a couple and talked about how to where to what to do was also relatively easy. The key I think was the talking and being friends. You put a lot of faith and trust in the person disciplining. Establishing that trust by talking by being friends first was paramount.

    The original posted question am I aroused at the thought of being outed. Oh heck yes. The ladies tease me terribly that they will tell others. Tell my female doctor or dentist. That they will email pics to my boss.

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  18. I guess I've kind of outed my husband. No one but me has seen him spanked or spanked him. However, when my girlfriends are here, I have spanked him on his bare cheeks in another room knowing they can hear the sound of the paddle on his hiney

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  19. I believe it's important that the discipline aspect is kept private between the couple , although my wife does enjoy dropping little vague hints like "just wait until I get you home " , etc in front of others.
    She has done it enough times in front of some of our friends that I'm sure they know what happens when she does get me home.

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