Saturday, May 30, 2015

The Forum - Vol. 91 - Would You Do It Again

Hello all.  Welcome back.  I hope you had a good week.

We had a poll close, this one focusing on where our US readers are located.  Here are the results:

Northeast
  13 (22%)
Southeast
  6 (10%)
Midwest
  15 (25%)
Southwest - Rocky Mountaiin West
  9 (15%)
California
  13 (22%)
Pacific Northwest
  3 (5%)

I'm not sure what to say about this one, other than the Pacific Northwest seems remarkably uninterested in DD and FLR blogs.  I didn't have many preconceived notions of how this one might turn out, but I did think the results for the Southeast might be higher, give the prevalance of corporal punishment in that area of the country until relatively recently. 

In case people are intersted, here are the most recent Blogger statistics showing the country-by-country breakdown of our readership:

United States
3998
United Kingdom
591
Greece
556
Germany
263
Canada
186
Poland
160
France
153
Netherlands
134
Ukraine
80
Russia
77

I''m always a little suspicious of these figures, however, because I have noticed over time that the variability from week to week is huge, and I'm not sure what would account for that.  It does make me wonder whether the statistics genuinely reflect where readers are located, versus where certain internet servers are located.  In other words, are there a high percentage of our readership using services that disguise their identity by routing traffic through various proxy servers.  Or, are there other explanations that to go way beyond my level of technical sophistication.

Anyway, observations on the above are obvisously welcome, though I don't have much personally to add.  I would be curious to hear more from our non-US readers about the extent to which female led relationships, including DD and FLR, are accepted in their countries and cultures.

But, I also wanted to get to a topic that Marisa raised a couple of weeks ago, namely if your current relationship ended, would you continue to use DD?

For me, the answer is yes.  To the point that if my current relationship ended, I think I would probably actively seekk out someone who was interested in, or at least open to, a DD and/or FLR relationship.

Finally, I've added a new poll, this one designed to test the extent to which our preferences for leadership in the home are reflected in our preferences in other contexts, particularly work.  In order to keep it simple, I have assumed that men who are likely to read this blog want to follow the wife's lead at home, and that she wants to lead in that context.  I know that is a gross over-simplification, but I wanted to keep this one relatively simple and binary.

I hope you all have a great weekend.

46 comments:

  1. Yes! If my relationship ended, after the heartbreak of it all I would seek a similar relationship.

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  2. I think I would. I have been trained to obey my wife and her discipline gives me a sense of security that she will never let me go far off the track. Being punished purges me of a lot of guilt and peels away defenses I would have to intimacy. I never feel so close or open to her as when I am standing in front of her obediently waiting to be punished. I am just totally vulnerable. There is a but here though. When younger I was disciplinarian to several women, nothing long term but long enough to know there is that side to me. So maybe it would depend on the woman I was with and her needs too. My wife really is a natural disciplinarian, expects to be obeyed and comes from a family of strong women. She brings out my obedience and submission because she expects it but I am not submissive to most other women (I was very much under the control of one earlier girlfriend, who actually introduced and trained me to the lifestyle). So a long winded answer but it might depend on circumstances
    Alan

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    1. I think "switching" is another good future topic. Thanks, Alan.

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  3. Before marriage to Anna and to be totally honest well into our marriage I sought out the services of a professional woman. I had a standing appointment and just so everyone understands, was never any sex involved in the sessions. It was when our 9 year plus marriage was in jeopardy and we sought a marriage counselor that I confessed that I had been seeing a woman for spanking. We talked and bless Anna she sought the woman out and even learned something about punishment.
    Although I know it began as her attempt to save our marriage mostly at that point for our boys sakes, she
    discovered something in herself. She became the woman I adore and it was then I realized that as much as
    I need they physical i need it married to the emotional bond that has grown between us. I cant conceive of
    life without her guidance and firm hand, even when i behave badly I get a second or third chance.
    So if she left yes I would seek out a strong woman to discipline me. But it would never be enough for me now
    to seek out a professional. The physical punishment would no longer be enough for me.
    peter

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    1. Hi Peter. I agree that both the physical and emotional part are important. I haven't done one without the other, but your experience doesn't surprise me.

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  4. Amid my protestations, I half-heartedly decided to at least pretend to look, because I owed it to Shilo. It was pure serendipity that I ran across a former submissive/masochist in this pursuit. It was a same time/same place thing, and since we ended things on a positive note (logistics be damned!) I approached him, and he expressed interest in trying again.

    We will be meeting the end of the week next week, and I'm hoping it will be a positive experience. In a way, what I will be doing something similar to Peter and the pro Domme, only I'm not Pro, meaning I don't get paid. However, I will be able to keep up with giving discipline, and the gentleman will get the discipline and spankings that his partner won't give him.

    In the meantime, Shilo is slowly getting stronger and healthier with fewer setbacks. I'm sharing this with caution, because I'm afraid of more setbacks.

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  5. Now, another thought... Why did you choose to specify California, as compared to other areas?

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    1. Hi Merry. Mainly just because I had divided the rest of the country in various ways, including breaking up the East Coast into northern and southern regions. Unlike the East Coast which covers lots of dfferent states, the West Coast has only three, and California covers a lot of that geography. Also, a disproportionate number of readers have told me that is where they are from, and I wanted to test and see just how many there are from that one state. Interestingly, for th first few days the poll was up, California was way ahead of all the other categories, but the distribution ultimately leveled off more.

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  6. If I could ever get over the loss, yes I probably would because it’s the way I’m wired. I’m naturally submissive in a relationship. But it’s hard enough to find a great partner you want to spend your life with, let alone a great partner who is also a disciplinarian.
    Before Mistress I used to seek the services of professional disciplinarians – but always felt something was lacking.
    Maybe seeing a professional would fulfill a need but I’ve discovered there’s much more of an emotional attachment to discipline when you are in a loving relationship.
    I think it I ever found myself alone, I’d seek out a disciplinarian, female or male, who was a lifelong enthusiast, someone who was really dedicated to traditional disciplinary methods. At least that way you would be able to share some kind of connection.
    I’m not saying some professionals aren’t lifestyle disciplinarians but in my experience, they are few and far between.

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    1. Hi RM. You are one of the only contributors who has alluded to accepting a male disciplinarian. That could be an interesting future topic.

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  7. Plain, vanilla, egalitarian relationships hold no appeal to me whatsoever. Every relationship I've had was based on varying degrees and styles of D/s with the most satisfying ones developing into predominantly female-led arrangements. I am very happy with Rosa and she seems pretty happy with me....but if something separated us, I would eventually move on. And that movement would be consistent with my desires and personal interests.

    (I can't help but think of this topic in terms of a humorous analogy: 'If you love craft beer and your favorite microbrewery, or liquor store closed, would you give up beer or find another liquor store?' ;-) )

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  8. I enjoy the relationship, she was very good, but age was the factor, she knew it and I did and so it was best to end it. It was not long afterwards I stumbled for lack of better wording a woman closer to my age who from the first understood my needs or as she put it what most men need, a strong woman to guide them. What was different was she is fully in charge, I've been spanked always otk, always start with the hand then the dreaded hairbrush. Her friends are like her and so being spanked in front of them is not uncommon, she addresses the issue then and there. At home I must be naked, I'm soundly scolded, the spankings can last long or be quick, always follow by wall time. She is firm, gets her point across, sitting is not comfortable afterwards. The worse spankings are when others might be visiting, nothing worse than being over her lap, squirming, pleading while others watch, the time facing the wall afterwards is worse.

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  9. Nothing worse, or nothing better? I know it's not feasible given our place in society but someday I hope to be punished in front of others. New friends perhaps.

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    1. I haven't had this happen very often, but it has happened a few times and it is far more appealing in one's head than at the time. The thing for me is I sort of am able to 'handle' a spanking when it's in a more serious context. And while a witnessed punishment may be for some serious or real thing, the reality is that any witness present is going to be, by the mere fact that they are willing to be witnesses, a somewhat bemused and eager audience. I have always said that spankings tend to be pretty funny things.....as long as they are happening to someone else. In the case of witnesses this couldn't be more true. Even if your Top is dead serious, they are far more likely to be entertained by your plight.

      Now one part of me fully appreciates this. They are only human and if the shoe was on the other foot, I'd probably be pretty entertained by seeing them spanked, but when it's you, having those grinning faces watching as you are seriously trying to process the pain and embarrassment.......I don't find it entertaining at all. A few times I fairly begged Rosa "can't this be private?" but she knew full well the added eyes were a very effective added punishment.

      Afterwards I have been able to look back and see the humor and even a bit of appeal to the scenario......but not in the moment.......so be careful what you wish for!

      I will add that a few times a viewed spanking was part of a playful penalty or dare for some truth or dare type game among friends. In those instances it wasn't so bad because I wasn't embarrassed about being spanked for misbehavior....it was just one of those 'oh well, bad luck for me' type things. It's only really bad when you are publicly called out for misbehavior that is genuine. Even being publicly told that I'm going to be spanked later for whatever occurred is bad enough.

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    2. Hi KD,
      Thoughtful post and one I mostly agree with. Both women who saw me being spanked or hear it were playful and lighthearted about it. ( and by the way neither of them wanted to spank me herself which I think is just a male fantasy rather than a reality in most cases) But being spanked in front of a witness is an experience all disciplined husbands should have at least once because it makes discipline real in a way it can never be if always practiced in private. In my admittedly limited experience it is also empowering for your wife or girlfriend. I think it might lose its magic if done too often but in limited doses it is powerful stuff.
      Alan

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    3. I will have to defer to Alan and KD's superior expoerience on this issue.

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  10. Hello Dan,
    I feel an obligation to answer my own question. Once I might have said I wouldn’t continue DD because I only started it because my husband needed it and not me. Today I don’t feel that way. Yes he does need it and thrives under it but so do I. DD makes a pretty good marriage a very good marriage opening up new opportunities for communication, intimacy and trust. It also allows me to control his worst behavior without resentment or sulking. One thing I would change though is to hammer out all of the details before marriage or even cohabitation. He would have walked down the aisle with a well reddened tush and knew from the beginning what his boundaries were. Instead my husband and I went through a couple of years I now recognize as a power struggle, one driven by his deep need to be dominated and my need for control. DD arose as a solution to that but doing it now I would want clear understanding at the start I was in charge and what the consequences were for forgetting that. I think I am a fair but effective disciplinarian today and have put some work into that. But if he had been more honest from the start about his needs, it would have happened much earlier and if I ever had to start over again it would all happen very early in the relationship and before marriage.
    Marisa

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    1. That was incredibly powerful Marisa. I can totally relate to the recollection of your journey thus far and totally agree with you that whatever version of Female Dominance a couple chooses does indeed turn a good, loving marriage into a great marriage. My Wife and I are a testament to that. Like most marriages where the wife is dominant, the husbands submissive tendencies and feelings may not be apparent in the beginning. Like you, the wife's feelings of power, pleasure and joy may not be realized until they are brought to the surface. My wife and I realized this and used our past anniversary as an opportunity to renew our vows to memorialize and celebrate our love for each other in our female led marriage. The ceremony was before an officiant and served to permanently secure our newly committed vows for each other. Hers in the loving dominant role and mine in the loving, dutiful submissive role. I kneeled for the entire ceremony and Mistress stood above me as we exchanged vows. At the end of the ceremony, she placed her collar on me much like I placed a ring on her finger when we were first married. It was very emotional and wonderful. Although I can't say that my bottom was reddened just before the ceremony (great idea though), I can tell you that it was reddened shortly thereafter. It was a magical night that both of us will cherish forever.

      Thank you for such a wonderful comment.

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    2. Hello Subhub
      Your love, obedience and submission to your wife is inspirational. I believe you are a male who really “gets it” and understands that submitting to female authority is liberating, not limiting. I feel the joy in you when you report she has had to punish and how close you feel to her after it is over. I do not permit my husband to read any of the F/M blogs because he still has masturbation issues that I am working on but I am going to make an exception for your blog and see how he handles it. I appreciate you have deleted some of the prurient photos and hope you continue to do so.
      Marisa

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    3. Marisa
      I had not intended to respond to this question. I was touched and pleased in Peter's answer a few days ago.I too give kudos to Subhub. I too think he really gets it. In my own case I do wish that
      we had started this at the beginning. However Peter's growth and our strength as a couple has only
      grown and deepened. Were I be faced with a new partner I too would want to include discipline from the very start.
      anna

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    4. Thanks, Marisa. Your point about DD providing an alternative to sulking and resentment is especially salient. When we began the DD aspect of our relationship, most of the emphasis was on correcting behavior, but I've come to believe that its equal purposes is giving the woman a chance to vent her frustrations and express those frustrations in a more empowered way. Thanks for contributing.

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    5. Marisa, I am incredibly honored by your kind words. Thank you very much. I look forward to your husband "poking around" at my blog and will even encourage him to comment, ask questions as he sees fit, with your permission of course. Please do consider having him say hello and identify himself as your husband.

      Kudos to you for understanding the importance of dealing with any issues regarding masturbation by your husband. Before my loving FLM ensued, I realized that masturbation had gradually become my primary source of sexual gratification and as such, significantly detracted from the loving attention that my beautiful wife was entitled too. That's a bad thing! Now, masturbation is just simply not allowed for me unless instructed to do so and only under Her direct supervision. I have graduated from being required to wear a chastity cage as result of the trust Mistress no has in me.

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    6. Hello anna, Dan & subhub,
      Thank you all for your gracious comments on my post. I feel pretty strongly about starting early and the advantages of it and that means you boys have to trust us and open up and not be afraid to bare your soul ( most of you seem happy to bare your bottom, so why not your soul too.) I think I understand the problem and it is that you marry women your revere and can’t bring yourself to tell them that sometimes maybe for reasons you don’t understand you need guidance and direction AND punishment. But if she doesn’t understood or accept it to some degree, you have married the wrong woman (I will get mail on that one) Bottom line: be honest with the woman you love enough to marry or make a long term relationship with. Subhub, thank you for saying much better than I what you did about masturbation. There is nothing at all wrong about masturbation outside a committed relationship but it is destructive if you sneak around in a committed relationship. Women have been naïve about this and men almost oblivious to it but I feel that is changing with so much talk on the internet. I may do a separate post on this and my husband still struggles with it sometimes. This is an area I am more critical of some women who ignore it rather than acknowledge it is a problem in their relationship that they need to address
      Marisa

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    7. Hi Marisa. I agree with you that staritng early and setting expectations probably has huge advantages. And, if my current relationship ended for some reason, I probably would approach it that way. It didn't work out that way for us, but it wasn't because of reluctance on my part to tell her I neded punishment, or guidance or direction. I just seem to be a bit of an anomaly in that I didn't have any desire for spanking or punishment before I was in my 30s and well into my marriage. It just literally never entered my mind. And, while I was always attracted to strong women, I really always thought of it as an age thing -- I was always attracted to women who were older than me. But, I never thought about it in terms of wanting guidance or direction. Instead, in my 30s I saw something on television regarding adult spanking, and it sparked some interest, though nothing all the compelling. A year or so later, I first encountered the concept of DD, and THAT hit me like a sledgehammer. We then did DD for a very long time, but it was only the last year or so that we started thinking about taking it in more of an FLR direction. When we did, it really wasn't that I had some long-secret desire for it and suddenly told her about it. It just sort of devleoped. If anything, it was more conceptual than need-based. When I would read things from men like Anna's Peter, I started realizing the extent to which my own dominant personality has created problems for me, and I started recognizing the need to moderate it, and that my wife making more decisions and exercising more control might help with that. Not only do I not "need" it, but I find the whole thing very uncomfortable and hard to take -- but so are a lot of other life experiences that lead to real growth.

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    8. We all grow and discover things about ourselves as we mature into who we are.But I believe there are forces in you that have sought female guidance and control for a while. You seem like my husband, strong, assertive and in control on the outside but ( sometimes) a naughty little boy who needs a trip over his wife's lap.These are two sides to your personality and the more you integrate them the happier you will be. By the way, sometime please explain the difference between DD and FLR as you understand it. It is to me a distinction without a difference. If a man really submits to discipline and correction from his wife, it is a wife led marriage, so real DD makes it an FLR or wife led as I prefer.

      Marisa

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    9. Wonderfully said Marisa and I wholeheartedly agree. I am very much like what you seem Dan to be. Very strong, assertive and in complete and utter control in every aspect of my life, except for one very important thing ... my marriage. Ever since my Mistress Wife and I began our acknowledged and official FLM, we couldn't be happier. The real kind of happiness, not just the happiness that comes from getting one's kinks satisfied occasionally.

      Your husband is a very lucky man to be married to, and under the control of such a cool chick, er, um, Mistress Wife. Have a wonderful day!

      SHIP

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    10. SHIP,
      No "Mistress wife" here, just wife and ma'am when he is being punished. But I do like the 'cool chick' moniker and yes he is under control and proud of it
      Marisa

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    11. Marisa, this is another one that we should probably explore in a full topic. (We've done a similar topic before, but there are a lot of readers now and a broader perspective. But, here is how I look at it, and I emphasize this is just my own personal way of categorizing things -- it's not like there is a set of DSM-V diagnostic criteria for this stuff (as far as I know): I see it as a spectrum, with different variations of this common theme based on both the motivation and the extent of female control. And also a bit the extent to which the motivation is behavior control versus sexuality. At one end of the spectrum are those who are using spanking as a very confined part of the relationship. Rules are set and, if the man breaks them, he is punished. I agree with you that there has been some exchange of authority there, but it is pretty limited. Spanking is a tool used for a very limited purpose, and there isn't a larger power exchange going on. One of our commenters, Fred, may best exemplify this. As he has said, his wife spanks him for certain things, but he is in charge in most of the other aspects of the relationship. I see FLR as really being distinguished by the "LR" part -- the woman's leadership role is broader and more of an explicit goal and basis for the whole relationship. There is a broader power exchange, or a more explicit and broader appointment of the woman being in charge, leading the relationship, being the person who wins in the event of a split decision on something. We always, from the begining, saw one goal of DD as empowering my wife, so you're right, it's not like that didn't play some role even our limited approach. But, at that point it was more about equalizing and addressing problematic behaviors. To me, FLR involves more of a consious process of un-equalizing things, placing the female more in charge of more things. Femdom is something I see--and I know I am going to draw some howls of protest on this--as being a broader philosophy that not just my wife should rule me, but I should defer to all women. And, I see it as being more sexualized, often with more of the trappings of collars and leashes and leather corsets -- the same stuff that I think scares off or intimidates some wome when their husbands first start expressing a need along these lines.

      Anyway, I know that paints things with an awfully broad brush. To your point that it is a distinction without a difference, I think I would desrcribe it as a distinction with a vast range of differences, from very small to fairly signficant. And, I don't know how much it really matters, other than perhaps (1) in helping me think through what exactly it is that I want out of this, what my wife wants, and what to do to get there; and (2) helping me draw some lines about what I want this blog to be about. While some prurient content slips in every once in awhile, that's not what I want it to be about, because I want it focused on the DD and, increasingly, the FLR part of the spectrum. The Femdom end of the spectrum is better served by other bloggers.

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    12. I could have sworn I left a comment below this one, did it get deleted?
      - Rob

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    13. Well anyway, might be a blessing in disguise since I've written an improved version.

      I agree with the distinction Dan is trying to articulate although i'm not sure if the nomenclature is correct. What he calls FLR is about worship, subservience, ever seeking ways to remind the man of his inferior place. The woman is not merely dominant but actively dominating. But I think it should be called something other than female-led.

      I believe a 'vanilla' disciplinary relationship is not about the agrandisement of the female but the betterment of the man (and that's what she gets out of it, not just him). If that whole point is lost then it is no longer a fair trade of power for meaningful, effective discipline.

      In a 'vanilla' DD relationship he can equalise the power difference through good behaviour. It is literally his bad behaviour that disempowers him and puts him over her knee. She occupies a watchful 'judge' role and intercepts when necessary.

      Somewhere lying in the middle would be what I think FLR should refer to. A disciplinary role needn't be a leadership role, but a leadership role needn't be a subjugating role.

      I'm not saying that these different models are wrong, although I think some can be better or ill-suited to certain kinds of men. Some men flourish under boundaries, some men flourish when led by the nose, and some men flourish when subjugated and made into a manservant. Get it right then they feel liberated, get it wrong then they feel suffocated or oppressed.

      For me, the sweet spot is somewhere straddled between the 'watchful' role with occasional stepping up to leadership and direction.

      Does this mean that there are conditions on her authority? Yes. And unless you would jump in a fire if she told you to, then there are conditions for you as well. Call it conditionally absolute.

      I do think sexuality is a separate continuum though. It's a paradox for me. The more unsexy, po-faced, dour, no-nonesense, serious and purposeful (and afeared and dreaded) the discipline is in the reality, the more aroused I am by the idea of it.

      "Don't make me regret submitting to this by not making me regret submitting to this".

      - Rob

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    14. I agree with most of this, with the possible exception of this sentence: "What he calls FLR is about worship, subservience, ever seeking ways to remind the man of his inferior place." Maybe the FLR is a typo, but what you describe is what I associate with Femdom, not FLR. Maybe not "subservience," which covers a lot of ground, but the "worship" element is someting I associate with Femdom.

      I too experience that paradox -- the less sexualized it is, the more arousing it is. Though, "arousing" is also a problematic word, though it's literally accurate. The paradox for me is that, particularly when we were first experimenting with DD, I was genuinely fearful of being disciplined, and it was that fear that was itself arousing.

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    15. Not a typo, I just was running with what I thought you took the phrase to mean.

      As to the last point: "Power is the ultimate aphrodisiac" -- Henry Kissinger. I'd add: one's own power, or that of another.

      The power to create fear in you is potent. Particularly fear that you know you deserve to feel. I think the reason the ideas keep resurfacing of 'consensual non-consent' and the feeling of being emptied of any will to oppose punishment, is that one's fear of punishment is only truly real when you have an infinitely greater fear of opposing it and find it unthinkable. Otherwise, truly, you can just walk away.

      It puts a punctuation point on the dynamic when you realise that you 'cannot escape', so long as she continues being who she is. People call it 'consensual non-consent' for a reason; the part that is consensual is that the 'consent' is continually won from you without effort, on the condition that she keeps being who she is (and you who you are)--the non-consent part is that you don't control whether she continues being that person, it is out of your hands.

      The greater she exerts her power with casual competence, the sexier she becomes. What makes it arousing is what it implies about her to be able create that feeling within you; that as much as you fear the immediate threat of punishment, even greater factors outweigh that concern, such as that she is a good person, the punishment comes from a good place and will do good things, and she has the resolve to do it and do it well. 'It's for your own good' is not some excuse or a canned phrase, but literally meant.

      - Rob

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    16. I agree with all you are saying but somehow it doesn't touch that deep feeling of inevitable surrender to her when she physically takes charge like grabbing my ear or my hair or says things authoritatively like " Your ass is mine" . My legs sometimes start to tremble and I cannot resist her and no longer even try. If you were spanked by your mother it is exactly that feeling. It is consensual because as an adult I know I need it but at the time she spanks me I don't want it nor can I stop it.
      Alan

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    17. Thanks, Rob. The "worshiping" and "all women are superior" mindset is something I definitely associate more with DD than FLR though there are again, no accepted definitions. I do see my wife and I moving more in an FLR direction, but I doubt it will ever take on those aspects, particularly the fawning, bowing and scraping thing, with the "You are my Goddess" stuff. For the people who want aor need that, to each his own. But, I am convinced that such stuff scare off a lot of women who might otherwise be willing to try a DD and FLR-oriented relationship. They are willing to lead -- they aren't willing to get into whole Femdom fantasy.

      Alan, great way to describe it. My wife doesn't physically take charge like that, and I can see why it really adds something powerful to the experience.

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    18. Now it's my turn to query if you mis-typed since I think you said DD and FLR the wrong way around?

      I do agree with you. Femdom as an ideology or something doesn't resonate with me, as it suggests sexism. It's just another form of having ready-made answers (and roles); it's the argument people make for all sorts of ideologies, because with acceptance of a dogma things then _are_ simple and action can be mobilized without further thinking. Humans would rather move, even in an incorrect direction, than stand still and stagnate. And the ideology can be compelling when there are elements of truth to it, even if the full thing is not true. There are parts of a femdom relationship that will strike a chord (women can be dominant leaders, for instance), and then a whole lot of unnecessary baggage. And while you call it fantasism, some people are living the reality: they _mean_ it. Well, if they both are consenting then I suppose it's victimless.

      I think Alan is onto something. I think some gestures and physical interactions strike a visceral nerve. Grabbing the face and turning it to you, wagging the finger, placing a finger on the nose or lips, grabbing the ass, slapping the ass, ear pulling... people could feel a million and one things when treated this way, but one thing they won't feel is indifferent. It has real meaning and symbolism and sends a message.

      - Rob

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    19. Yep, mis-typed that one. Too much multi-tasking. Meant Femdom, not DD.

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    20. Alright, no worries. I made another error and posted a follow-up underneath the comment below this one.

      - Rob

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  11. I also think there is a difference between a wife led marriage and Domestic Discipline and I see the difference by recognizing what is and what is not present in relationships that work. I understand that you prefer the term wife led, over female led, and will use you term, but I believe that the opinions discussed apply equally well for two people who are in a significant relationship, even if they have not officially tied the knot.

    As background, I am a man and I lead my family. I do not use any type of domestic discipline (I find spanking erotic and that is my only interest in it). I have been married for over a quarter of a century and my wife and I have adult children. I believe that domestic discipline - corporal or otherwise - does not modify behavior by itself, especially if the person getting the spanking desires it, or desires a relationship in which physical discipline is used. If there is a modification, I believe, it is because the spouse giving the discipline effectively communicates their displeasure or disappointment in the behavior in question – so, at best, when properly used physical discipline acts as an communication enhancement.

    First, I believe it is possible to have a marriage, or other relationship, where one party is the leader without the use of domestic discipline. I am in one. I do not believe that it matters which gender is leading. So if everything else were the same except my wife lead this marriage, I would be in a wife-led marriage without the use of domestic discipline.

    Second, I believe it is possible to use domestic discipline in a marriage without the party delivering the discipline having control over everything in the marriage. Based on your comment, “If a man really submits to discipline and correction from his wife, it is a wife led marriage, so real DD makes it an FLR” this is the point where you may disagree with me. In some relationships, one spouse may seek direction or guidance from the other (or each from the other) for specific behaviors or performance issues. If the spouses also desire a relationship employing physical discipline, then that party is submitting to real discipline, even if the relationship is not led exclusively by the party giving the discipline.

    In many marriages, leadership duties are shared (even if each party does not have a 50-50 say in each decision), often, with each party assuming duties based on their individual strengths and values. One party might be better at financial management or believe that it is more important than the other, but not be great at physically organizing. Or one party may be responsible for everything in the home, and the other for everything in the garage and yard. Even if physical discipline is employed to enforce the decisions made by the party in charge of that particular issue, that does not mean that the relationship is led exclusively by that person. For example, if the wife is the better organizer, and the husband has a hard time remembering to place his dirty clothes in the laundry hamper, even if the wife employs physical discipline as a reminder, it is not necessarily a female led relationship, even if the husband submitted to the discipline for that issue.

    Third, it is possible to have a wife led marriage in which physical discipline is employed. I believe this is the relationship that you have reported that you and your husband have implemented. Also, it is possible to have a husband led marriage in which physical discipline is used.

    Because physical discipline and leadership are separate, and because relationships can have one without the other, I believe they are separate, different and distinct.

    I have enjoyed reading Dan's blog for a while now. It appears to me that you have only recently started contributing. I have enjoyed your contributions. Your points are always well thought out and often poignant. Please continue contributing. I look forward to reading more of your postings. So, thank you, Dan, and thank you, Marissa.

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    1. I don't know if you meant to say that desiring to be in a DD relationship makes any prospective discipline less effectual, but I have to disagree if so. That's like saying if I wish to live in a society of laws, that I will jump for joy if I am caught committing a crime and am sent to prison. However, if I went and asked if I could go and live in prison of my own volition, that would be different. So where you write "especially if the person getting the spanking desires it, or desires a relationship in which physical discipline is used." I agree with the first part but not the second.

      I believe as you that leadership and discipline are separate, however (I know you didn't say this) I think that it would be difficult to implement effectual punishment if the leader sought out punishment from the subordinate. Occupying the post where one judges the appropriateness of the others actions is a 'top' role, but I suppose the master or mistress of the household could judge their own behaviour unworthy and seek out a punishment for some particular vice from their submissive, but I imagine some of the emotions that really punctuate the experience would be missing, like true fear and a feeling one cannot escape it.

      Then again, I do notice some people 'role switch' more smoothly than others. For me it feels insincere if the roles are constantly switching, and muddies the waters as to who is supposed to be looked to for guidance or direction--but I wonder if some people even operate _better_ when things are constantly in flux.

      - Rob

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    2. Something else to add to what Alan said. I think my triggers would be a delivered threat in a casual and totally-not-joking tone, that kind of tone where you (in the beginnings) stop and process the memory of what you just heard for any trace of an inflection suggesting that they didn't mean it. I think it's important for the dominant person to be able to deliver threats in detail in a completely unabashed way; to talk about baring bottoms, over the knee, nose in the corner etcetera without feeling ridiculous or disbelieving the words that are coming out of their mouth. Leave it to the sub to feel and absorb those emotions.

      - Rob

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    3. son of a... I replied to the wrong comment chain. Sorry, can't rectify this. I feel like i'm spamming, now so I won't repost it, hope the people it was addressing see it.

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  12. I generally agree with the concepts taken by anonymous. In my case I am clearly the leader in our household, I started and was CEO of a business for 25 years and was clearly the leader at work. I also had faults, some of which negatively impacted our marriage. I wasn't a good listener, I sometimes treated my wife as if she was my secretary, I often lost my temper, etc. My wife often responded with her own temper. The relationship was not good and getting worse. I loved my wife, and with kids had no desire for a failed marriage. Having given it considerable thought I knew I had to change my attitude and behavior, I knew it wasn't right, I knew I would need to change. I also knew I had to make peace with my wife and admit my faults and more importantly let her know that I would change my ways, but I would need her help and discipline. Before having this discussion with my wife I surfed the internet using the words discipline husbands and came upon the DWC site. In my mind I needed this kind of tough love and getting my backside bruised when I screwed up was probably what it would take to straighten out my faults and bad habits. I had this discussion with my wife without any idea how she would respond. She said she would like to read the DWC and other sites, but you've needed your butt paddled more times than I can count, and it just might work if you really want to improve your behavior. I said I did, we made a list together of all the things that I did that really irritated her, we agreed that should I violate this list I would be paddled on her terms, I would take my punishment without resistance, and she would expect improvement. (that is a summary of what took place).
    Early on and before I improved my behavior I was paddled often and hard and consistently when I screwed up. My wife has told me she doesn't enjoy busting my butt, but it is working and she has no intention of not continuing to do it. I have improved, and I rarely get paddled anymore because I've learned to comply with the list - with my temper usually causing the paddling's I still do get. Although I do get aroused when I know I will be spanked, my wife's paddling's are excruciating and go on for far longer than I think I can stand.
    Bottom line, I want my wife to hold my feet to the fire when I'm guilty and for me corporal punishment does work. It solves problems quickly and causes no resentment. I would not accept head trip type punishments. Our marriage is great again, more intimate, and I so respect my wife for doing it. I continue to be the household leader and my wife wants it that way. But when it comes to enforcing the agreed upon rules my wife is clearly the boss and I accept that. Our relationship, in my judgment, falls clearly within DD and nothing else. .

    Fred

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    1. Fred

      I agree totally. I NEED Anna to hold my feet to the fire. I dont really care what it is called. I do know
      life is better for my marriage and my boys. That is truly all I want. Thank you Anna

      Peter

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