Saturday, November 22, 2014

The Forum - Vol. 67

Hi all.  I hope you all had a good week.  I'm in th middle of a major storm at work, so I apologize in being less than thorough and prompt in responding to comments last week.  I will try to remedy that over the weekend.

In the meatime, this week's topic relates to one of our recent polls, which asked about who initiated the disciplinary relationship.  Like the poll on the ages at which people start DD, this one was, in a word, lopsided:

Discipline receiver
  107 (84%)
Discipline giver
  20 (15%)

 Unlike the poll on ages, however, this one doesn't surprise me.  And, the results are reinfoced by many of the comments from last week regarding DD "surprises," many of which talked about the fact that the male initieated the DD relationship, but the female soon became an enthusiastic participant.

One thing that does amuse me a bit about these results is it does suggest that a lot of the stories out there regarding DD beginnings, including unfortunately much of the content from the old Disciplinary Wives Club, is probably more fantasy than reality, as many of the stories involve the wives initiating the DD or FLR relationship in response to exasperation with the husband's behavior, but our poll results suggest that instances of female-initiated DD may be few and far between>

So, this week, give us any thoughts you may have on why the numbers are so lopsided.  Why is is usually the man initiating, particularly given all the advantages DD seems to hold for the women, and also given the leaps and bounds women have made in recent years when it comes to assertiveness in the workplace and hte professional world.  Also, take a moment to share your own initiation story and most importantly why you--be you reciver or giver in the DD relationship--initiated.

Have a great week!

Dan




24 comments:

  1. Dan, I can only speak for myself. I was in a very high stress job and I couldn't put the stress down even when I got home. I ran across spanking on the net and thought why not. At times my wife would "play" spank me while we were having sex and I liked that. One evening as we got in bed I handed her my belt and asked her to spank me. She said you mean really spank you? I said yes. that night I felt wonderful, and the next day we talked about it and I told her why I asked for it and how I felt after. The rest is history.
    archedone

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    1. Thanks Archedone. Stress relief seems to play a role for a lot of men in DD. I always wonder whether it is the spanking itself, or the boundaries imposed by someone else, that brings that sense well-being afer one.

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  2. I can only answer your questions from the perspective of our female-led relationship.
    Mistress is a much more practical person than I am. Aren’t most women? Or is that a glib generalisation? I apologise if it is.
    Like many men I have hobbies and interests, while Mistress, like many women I’d venture, is more focused on the reality of everday life.
    In my working life I have a position of authority, which I find difficult to deal with but around women and especially in my relationship I’ve always been the submissive. Mistress on the other hand, cuts and authoritarian figure whatever the situation.
    One of my ‘interests’ embraces corporal punishment which I’ve pursued for many years.
    Mistress on the other hand knew nothing of CP, S&M, FLR, DD until I introduced her to it. She embraced my interests and gave me what I was looking for by playing out CP games.
    But once she gained experience, we could both see a more practical use for CP - to use it to benefit our relationship by punishing my real faults.
    If I’m honest, the DD initiation was still from me but when I suggested it, Mistress admitted it something she was already thinking about.
    That’s what I mean about the practical side of women. She could see and real-world use for CP and how to put it into practice.
    Why did I initiate? Because the games were just that. I’m aware of my many faults, some of which contributed to my marriage failing. I didn’t want to make the same mistakes again and felt I’d like help with correcting some of them – for the benefit of our relationship.
    Could I have corrected my faults myself? Possibly, but when you are naturally lazy and can be overbearing to the point of being dis-respectful, you need someone to pull you up short and point out those faults, otherwise you slide into a bad place without realizing it.
    Mistress could have nagged me – but it’s not her way. Far better the short sharp shock of the cane to bring one to heel.
    I don’t know if Mistress is typical of other women but she doesn’t surf sites light this to learn more about the subject. She’s just happy to discipline me because she can see real benefits.
    What benefits? She has someone who always shows her the respect and love she deserves, and who willingly looks after the menial chores around the house. And she can live in a stress-free relationship with no arguments, bickering or long drawn out sulky periods that seem to punctuate so many relationships.
    Like you I’m surprised however why more women don’t embrace a DD lifestyle – given, as you say, their
    assertiveness in the workplace and the professional world.
    But maybe they do – and they are like Mistress. They just deal with the practical side of DD and enjoy the benefits but don’t get involved with the internet side of it like us men seem to enjoy doing?

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    1. RM, I have no doubt that relative levels of adult-related internet use account for some, possibly a lot, of the variation we see in these polls.

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  3. I think regardless of whether you are a F/m or M/f DD couple, it was probably still the submissive partner who introduced it for a very simple reason: in our society the idea of suggesting that a loved one be spanked suggests a strong risk of a negative reaction and even accusation of abuse. But....when the deserving partner comes humbly and plaintively to a loved one suggesting that they give them a spanking......well, you're literally "asking for it". If the dominant partner nods in agreement, or even just initially "indulges" what might seem a kinky fantasy, they are treading in much safer territory.

    It just makes sense that even someone entertaining the idea of delivering a well-deserved spanking to a loved one is going to be much more reluctant to bring it up than the one who is asking to be punished. Also, I believe that there are simply more needy submissives than needy dominants. A dominant personality who "needs" to punish is probably a rare thing. A dominant personality who discovers the advantages of delivering punishment and acquiring a taste for it is probably more common.

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    1. I think those are great observations, particulalry that it's probably just easier for the disciplined party to ask, as the other party could be seen as sadistic or abusive. I admit that I tend to hold some of those prejudices, fearing that M/f domestic discipline relationships are more likely to be abusive because it is more common for men to impose their will. But, I think there are women who get the same out of receiving discipline that I do -- boundaries, consequences for bad behavior, lettin go of control, etc. So, I am trying to get past my biases and avoid judging others' kink.

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    2. As the spanker, I could never have initiated the DD aspect of our relationship. It is very important to us both that everything in our relationship be consensual. If I had initiated the DD, I wouldn't be sure whether he really consented or whether he felt pressured to submit to it. This would be especially true if it came up in the context of some behavior problem on his part that made him feel like he owed me something. Since he initiated the whole DD program, I have no doubt that he consented freely. Since I initiate each individual session, he has no doubt about my consent to it.

      It is also true that it simply did not occur to me. When our children were young, we discussed whether spanking should be used when they needed discipline and decided against it, even though we were both spanked by our parents. It didn't occur to me to revisit the question with respect to him. He encountered it while looking at porn on the internet and suggested it to me.

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    3. I really do think it is that simple: in our society, for legal and social reasons very few partners are going to suggest or insist on spanking their loved one....male or female. However, once the submissive partner asks for it or suggests it, a willing partner is much more likely to at least give it a try.....or indulge their own existing but repressed desire to discipline as needed.

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    4. KD, I agree, but there was another party to Anonymous' comment: "It is also true that it simply did not occur to me." That also does seem to be a contributor the very male-centric initiation statistics. For whatever reason, it does seem to occur to men relatively regularly, but to the women, not so much.

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  4. Ooops, forgot to respond to the last question, however, I did mention this before so I'll just give a brief recap: we were already doing sexy, play....but still hard, spankings, so when Rosa moved in, me suggesting using spanking as a part of an overall FLR dynamic seemed like the next logical step in what we were already doing....in addition to empowering her to feel like my house was hers as well, in a very real and tangible way. Her house, her rules. Security, authority, and respect....all wrapped up in one-sided authority benefitting her, her kids, and in a different way, me as well.

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  5. Dan

    As a wife who has been disciplining my husband now for a bit more than three years I think I understand why it is so lopsided. No matter how many advances are made in society I think it
    is safe to say it is still a man's world.
    In our case I am not sure that discipline for Peter would be part of our lives now if it had not come
    out in our therapy session a few years ago that he confessed he was going to a woman who
    spanked him. it was not sexual but a way Peter rid himself of tension.
    Once it was out in the open and with the help of our therapist we began exploring how I could do
    what he needed. The most important part of this switch was that I felt empowered and more of an
    equal in our marriage.To see Peter go to our room for punishment on my orders without argument makes he feel his equal.
    To me the most important result is I feel the respect he has for me as a wife and partner.

    anna

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    1. Anna, unfortunately, I suspect you are right thiat the reason the man generally initiates it is simple: if he doesn't, the wife won't because she doesn;t feel empowered to do it. (Though, I also suspect that part of the disparity is explained by men being more likely to surf for adult material and find references to DD, thereby making it more likley for the male to discover the whole ocncept.) But, I also think it is fortunate that once it is initiiated, it can work miracles in helping the woman grow more powerful and assertive and, as you say, feel like an equal. My wife has experienced exactly that and, where our DD relationship last consistency and rigor it is precisely because she still hasn't quite internalized being given full control and authority. As you said, we're all a work in progress.

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  6. This is an interesting topic, our dd was initiated by my wife's mother who watched my wife and I interact for months with me being insensitive and sometimes rude.She discussed her concerns about my behavior with me several times but I didn't hear her. Then when we were alone she told me that she had seen enough. She calmly told me that she knew what I needed and explained that she was going to soank me.. The spanking was a revelation it hurt a lot and I was embarrassed but I felt a sense of calm I had not known before.
    It took months for me to tell my wife, my wife has assumed the role of my disciplinarian and it really works for us

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  7. My wife and I stumbled across discipline further to the acquisition of a small cane just to spice up our bedroom play. I'd never craved it, and other than enjoying slapping me during sex my lady showed no real desire to delve deeper. Yet from the moment she wielded her first cane it flicked a switch in her. She liked it. A lot, and almost every play session would end up with her getting her toy out. She stated that she felt sexy and empowered, and I confess that I found the changes that came over her striking. To cut a year long story short, we are now in a situation where I am her submissive Knight and she is my Queen. We've children so we cannot indulge ourselves as much as we might like, but let's just say that she now has a collection of implements that serve as an extension to her will. We are both members on the She Makes The Rules website, where I post as Robaylesbury and she as JLFLB. It's been a useful source for how to make these kinds of relationships work in the real world. So to conclude, she basically discovered that being my disciplanarian came very naturally to her, and it would be fair to say that our sessions are quite intense and prolonged. Neither of us can fully believe it sometimes, especially given that other than bondage and some mild kink neither had been particularly into pain play and discipline before. Life is a funny thing sometimes.

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    1. "Life is a funny thing sometimes." Very wise words.

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  8. Our DD marriage was started by my wife. She was impressed by how her friend had the “ideal” husband. She lamented that ours was far from what their relationship entailed because basically I was doing whatever I wanted and was never held accountable for my actions. Her friend began tutoring my wife and things developed and changed gradually. I was eventually held accountable and punishment spankings were the result of my misbehaving. Likewise my wife took control of all things sexual and I was no longer the one “in charge”. In retrospect, my marriage would have eventually failed had we not developed a DD marriage.

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    1. Was you friend's wife in a DD marriage? Did she tell that to your wife?

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  9. Hi Dan
    Believe your poll is in the ball- park and the overwhelming number of F/M DD relationships start with at least some clear indication from the male that he would accept spanking or needed discipline. All of mine did although in one case it took little more than me mentioning a occasional spanking might be a good idea before she literary showed up at my apartment with a custom made paddle a few weeks later. She was ready and I think any male she was interested in would have sooner or later been subject to corporal punishment from her. It was just part of who she was. Also although the nature of adult DD is consensual nevertheless once that consent is given it’s hard for a variety of reasons to reverse course (in most/ many cases a couple never really wants to reverse course other than maybe the moment you are over her knee having an appointment with the bath brush, LOL). My own wife has told me many times that I cannot take away the authority I gave her, not that I want to except briefly when I am conversing with that bath brush. But something might be missing here and that is that most reading your blog are probably over 40 and took some time to accept their needs. But the internet and gender role changes may be bringing younger couples to DD much earlier. This combined with younger women’s new assertiveness is probably leading younger women to introduce discipline rather than wait for men to ask for it. After all most wives are painfully aware their naughty boy husbands need discipline before we get around to fessing up There are numerous blogs now and tumblers run by women who claim to have taken charge and I know of at least one blog run by a younger guy who describes his life with a woman who initiated spanking for discipline in their relationship. So summing up, probably the overwhelming number of F/M DD relationships are initiated by the guys, But I think younger women are initiating some too and for all I know more mature women may be initiating. Blogs like your and Dianne’s (sadly inactive) and Strict Julie Spanks are getting the word out that this works in good long term relationships. One of the wives among the two couples we know ( for sure) that practice DD said to me once “Why wouldn’t I spank ( her husband) if he agrees to it, needs it and is a better husband for it? It’s a good question
    Alan

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    1. Alan, I agree with all this, except the speculation that a more open society is resulting in more of the younger women initiating. If our poll regarding "ages" was at all accurate, the vast majority of people in DD are over 50, with a sprinkling of them under 40, and virtually nothing under30.

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  10. I was waiting to see if Shilo was going to contribute to this, but he's been really busy. I answered that the discipline receiver (Shilo) initiated the D/D. This doesn't mean he wasn't being spanked. On the contrary, we already had a BDSM relationship.

    Shilo will sometimes get "full" of himself, and do things I don't like or approve of (smoking/lying about it) is one of those things. I got so upset at one point, that I removed his collar. While our marriage (minus the BDSM) was going well, there was something missing. His suggestion that we use Domestic Discipline was met with my skepticism, but I knew we were both suffering, and that this would at least give me the upper hand,


    I went online to find out as much as I could, because there's a HUGE difference between what we had already been doing, and this. I discovered quite a few "fantasy" sites, a few people on EP, and your blog, which, I will admit,has been more helpful than anything else.

    My theory on the lopsidedness is because, as a woman growing up, I was taught that the wife is there to please her husband. Keep in mind that I evolved into who I am now, and it was a long, painful, difficult process. Finding my "voice" was a big part of it, but even though I am the Dominant, I just couldn't see myself ruling my household by wielding canes, paddles, and zombie killers. That was a process, and I'm happy to say that I've adjusted to it.

    It helps that all the people in my household are kinky, and they acknowledge that I rule the Kingdom (Queendom) that is my house. Every member of my Household has been spanked, and I don't care who is here to see it. The only exception is when child #4 is here, and it's only because he's disabled, and I don't want to frighten him. However, he knows it is my house and my rules.

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    1. For the record: Child #4 is 25 and is developmentally delayed, and has other disabilities.

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    2. Hi Merry. So, at the risk of displaying my ignorance (wouldn't be the first time), what is a zombie killer?

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    3. Oh boy... It is a 24' long, 2' wide, 1/2' thick solid bamboo paddle. I'll see if I can find a link to a picture of it. It was custom made for an auction, and that is what they called it.

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    4. Found it in Shilo's screencaps. ENJOY!

      http://merryslavesdiary.blogspot.com/2014/11/nov-19-screencaps.html

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