“One person's embarrassment is another person's accountability.” - Tom Price
Hello all. Welcome back to The Disciplinary Wives Club - Tribute. Our weekly on-line gathering of women and men who are in, or would like to be in, a Domestic Discipline relationship.
I hope you all had a good week. Mine was still not great, thanks to lingering Covid symptoms. My body has some weird thing for that little bug. My immune system lets it sneak into my body at every opportunity, then takes forever to toss it out. I’m still dealing with the brain fog and exhaustion, and even a couple of days ago I thought I’d likely be putting off posting again. But, I feel like maybe I’m finally on the mend and can get it together enough to post, though I’ll get to a topic indirectly by going through a few comments from last week.
I’ll kick it off with this comment from Al regarding being brought to real sobbing tears from a spanking:
Dan, I know you have often written that after years of being very sound spanked on a regular basis that you have never been brought to sobs - as many of us have (myself included).
It recently occurred to me - following a spanking in which I was genuinely sobbing - that the spanking certainly wasn't in the "very hard" range of a punishment spanking (in which the whacks are so hard that I sometimes struggle not to stop the spanking). And, in fact, during those very hard spankings, I almost never cry - because the pain is so intense that it has my entire attention with no room for emotional reaction. It is during the "merely" hard spankings (that still leave me with a very sore, and well reddened behind - and is most definitely still a real spanking) that I am most likely to sob. Especially if it is a longer spanking (over 100 whacks) and especially if she is scolding me (and my wife is a master at scolding while spanking). I believe the somewhat less intense pain allows me the head space to connect with the experience of emotional submission inherent in a DWC spanking (since the pain is not completely all mentally consuming). [Emphasis added.]
Alan followed up with:
Splitting the spanking into two or more parts reduces the numbing . Possibly 15 minutes corner time or longer, then the spanking resumes. But as al writes, length and impact emotionally during the spanking does it for me-especially when she creates a sense of "panic" that it will never stop. that is totally irrational of course but it does it for me. I just let go to any resistance and crying can happen. [emphasis added]
Note that, while crying and tears were the specific topic raised by Al and Alan, both of their comments also bring up the role of strong emotion--emotional submission, panic, emotional reaction to scolding--during a spanking.
That takes me back to a topic suggestion from Norton from a few weeks ago, which addresses one particular emotion - embarrassment:
It's interesting that embarrassment is a desired goal by many, including me. It is central to the fantasy of having others witness a spanking, which many of us have, but few have realized. Another thing that is embarrassing for me is telling my partner I have screwed up, knowing that it will guarantee a spanking. Keeping her informed of my behavior is part of our DD agreement, and I try to honor it by texting her as soon as possible after the offence, before I chicken out. She considers going over my alcohol limit and bad driving to be serious offenses, and spanks accordingly. I ran a light this morning and got a very hard paddling as soon as I returned home. Whatever embarrassment I was feeling quickly disappeared as soon as the spanking began. There is a good reason the artist Barbra O'Toole has a website of her spanking art called "Embarrassing and Fun". Exploring the role embarrassment plays in DD could be a possible future topic.
Which brings us to a recommendation from Jake:
The author I would recommend from LSF is etbyrd. He won't be to everyone's taste as he doesn't really write about adult F/M disciplinary relationships, although I think there might be one that is treated somewhat peripherally.
For some of us, a big part of the draw to spanking is the emotional vulnerability and the loss of composure [emphasis added] that can occur when someone is on the receiving end of this kind of physical correction. I'm interested in depictions whether fictional or not that portray emotionally intense situations which result in an enduring feeling of having been humbled. There typically isn't enough time given to scolding to really bring out the sense of someone having gotten a serious reality check. The scolding is typically told rather than shown ("She then gave him a hard scolding enumerating all his shortcomings and making clear exactly what the consequences for failing to meet her expectations would be.") while the spanking is shown rather than told. The stories would be better, that is more involving, if this pattern was reversed. It's in the scolding, and also of course the larger narrative setting, that we get a sense of where the character is and will be emotionally.
And with that all having been said, etbyrd writes the best scolding dialogue that I've come across. Most of them feature an exceptionally immature adolescent boy. As is typical of the genre, the situations are pretty contrived, fanciful is probably a better term. But those who are interested in a maternal style dynamic and share my view on the importance of scolding scenes in these sorts of stories, might find them worthwhile.
I did read a couple of etbyrd's stories after Jake's recommendation, and the scenarios often involve extreme embarrassment, like a teenager getting spanked int front of a roomful of classmates.
And, like Al, Alan and Norton, Jake focuses on emotional vulnerability, including the total loss of composure that is perhaps best exemplified by sobbing during a spanking.
So, let’s talk about the role of emotions in Domestic Discipline, with a particular (but not exclusive) emphasis on embarrassment and emotional vulnerability. I would also like to talk about embarrassment and vulnerability in the context Al and Alan raised, i.e. crying.
As a preliminary matter, is Norton right that embarrassment is a “desired goal” for disciplined males? Is it why some of us are attracted to things like “witness” scenarios?
I used to think I not only
was not into embarrassment but actually had a strong aversion to it. And, on one level, that’s true, to the point
that I will sometimes fast-forward past scenes in movies and shows in which
someone is being subjected to something severely embarrassing or
humiliating.
Yet, with the benefit of hindsight and reflection, I think it’s simplistic to leave it at I have an aversion to embarrassment. A more nuanced take on it would be that I am averse to seeing others embarrassed.
Though, it is still true that I don’t like being embarrassed myself. I’ve engaged with a few commenters over the years who, or whose partner, got off on humiliation. That’s definitely not me.
Yet, there is undeniably something about embarrassing situations, in the DD context at least, that I find intriguing. When I first discovered the Disciplinary Wives Club, the stories that had the most appeal to me were those that involved the husband being taken to the point of real sobbing during a spanking. Especially those stories in which sobbing was the wife's stated goal.
I've used this meme, and the one at the top of the page, many times over the years, to the point that I've probably over-used both. Yet, they convey facets of spanking to tears that never fail to hit me emotionally. It's something about the combination of being spanked to tears, being embarrassed to the core about it, while the wife states her unequivocal intent to bring it about or expresses satisfaction about having brought it about.
There is such a . . . loss of power . . . associated with that combination.
As I read the DWC stories and imagined myself in those husbands’ positions, the prospect of breaking down in real tears during a spanking was mortifying, yet morbidly attractive. I am sure it is one of the reason I became so obsessed with the DWC. And, that has never really changed. I’m still morbidly attracted to stories and videos that feature not just tears but real, true sobbing.
Jake referenced being drawn to “loss of composure”, and that resonates for me too. Shedding a few tears doesn’t do much for me. Rather, it’s the total loss of composure that is reflected in real sobbing that hits me like a gut punch. And, again, it is something about the combination of the wife's total composure and the husband's lack thereof, and that the wife affirmatively wants--or at least sees a benefit in--taking him to that place.
I suspect that some of the emotional power for me of a situation in which the spankee loses all composure, and the spanker's goal is to bring that about, goes back to childhood spankings. Isn't that the essence of parental spankings, and also some school spankings? And, perhaps nothing evokes the power imbalances inherent in those childhood scenarios, nor is quite so infantalizing, as sobbing over a wife's knee, as she dispassionately seeks to bring that about.
Further, I share the interest many here seem to have in “witness” scenarios, and I'm sure Norton is right that the reason it's such a common fantasy has something to do with the desire for embarrassment. Or, maybe a desire for vulnerability, to the extent they are distinguishable.
Though, with witnesses, to me the emotional power of the scene is determined by some combination of the severity of the embarrassment and the determination of the spanker and/or the witness to bring it about. Even overheard spankings have that power over me, perhaps more so than witnesses seeing a spanking. I think maybe it's because the loss of power seems even greater in a scenario in which I know others know I got spanked, but I didn't see their reaction in the moment. It's kind of like being sent to the principal's office, getting paddled, then going back to a roomful of students who know you got paddled. They are all playing it out in their minds, which somehow seems worse than them seeing it happen.
I seem to be most attracted to scenarios in which the witness has some personal desire to see the recipient get his comeuppance. It’s important that they see the spanking as justified or deserved, and I think that’s because I react to the recipient feeling embarrassment not just because the spanking is witnessed but because the witness is aware of the behavior that led to it and condemns or disapproves of it.
One thing I like about writing these posts is that sometimes the process helps me reach insights I didn't have when I started. For example, it's only been in the coures of writing this post that I've noticed how much the morbid attraction I feel to being put in embarrassing spanking-related situations depends not so much on the setting (witnesses), or on the outcome (crying, loss of composure), but on the intent or knowledge of the others involved.
I also have a strong reaction to stories that include a conscious effort to humble the recipient, i.e. to take away his pride and overcome his emotional resistance. There is a story by KD Pierre called Pride, available on the Library of Spanking Fiction, that involves a husband with a contentious relationship with one of his wife’s friends. She dictates that her husband needs to apologize to the friend after a fight and, when he refuses, she takes him to get a spanking in front of the friend, and that morphs into a spanking by the friend.
What gets me about the story is the friend makes it clear that she knows she is equally culpable when it comes to the animosity between them, yet she wants to spank him anyway because she likes that he has no real choice but to take her spanking when he really detests her. She wants to humble him and take away his pride. In other words, she wants to embarrass him, and her own power is amplified by doing so.
How about you? Is embarrassment a big part of your DD dynamic or your attraction to disciplinary spankings? Is being embarrassed something you try to avoid at all costs, or are you like me and have a sort of morbid attraction to it?
How does your wife feel about the role embarrassment plays, if any, in your DD relationship? Does she try to avoid embarrassing you, or is it something she consciously tries to use when spanking you or in exercising her power in the relationship?
Or, is it something she sees as a possible byproduct but not really her concern? Sort of like when Anne decided to start leaving window shades open during a spanking, on the premise that it wasn’t her who would get embarrassed if someone saw, since she wasn’t the one getting the spanking?
[While the DWC didn't talk a lot about embarrassment, it does strike me as I write this that what is probably the most popular bit of artwork on the website did involve a spanking observed through a window.]
I would also like to zoom in on embarrassment as it relates to crying. For Alan and Al, and any others who have really let loose and cried hard during a spanking, what were the emotions associated with that when it first happened? Has that changed as it's happened again over the years?
As I said, when I first read the DWC stories in which the husband sobbed, I was drawn to it for sure, but it was a very morbid sort of fascination. I assumed that losing composure like that would be extremely embarrassing and leave me feeling incredibly vulnerable. Was that the case for those of you who have been there?
Or, was the emotion something more positive, like catharsis?
How about the wives who have delivered a spanking and gotten real sobs as a result? Was that gratifying, like you were giving a spanking the way it should be given, or like justice was served? Or, maybe a twinge of feeling sorry for the husband in that state? Or, something more neutral? Does the wife's satisfaction in bringing about real tears depend at all on the nature of the conduct, or perhaps on how much it affected her?
I doubt we’ll get much direct response from the wives on this, given their low level of current participation, but maybe Al, Alan and others have some insight into how their wives feel about bringing them to tears?
I hope you all have a great week!
Dan, glad you are back posting again! We have been doing DD long enough that that I feel little or no embarrassment anymore about being spanked by her. I have cried in front of her before about other things, but not as the result of a spanking. It is a form of release that would be nice to access, but it simply doesn't seem to happen for me. She is totally fine with it, and has encouraged me, but no luck so far. I still like the idea of being embarrassed by her telling one of her lady friends about our DD, but so far, there hasn't been much interest. It's unlikely anything will change, and that's perfectly ok with me.
ReplyDeleteI've cried in front of my wife too, and I cry absurdly easy at things like sad or emotional songs.
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ReplyDeleteFor me, being over her knee - which is my preferred position, reflects a desire for control, but coupled with an intimacy that bending over or other positions don’t have. I don’t think it’s quite the same as embarrassment. I think the emotional component is at least as important as the physical pain, and putting oneself in this position just reinforces the feeling of acceptance that punishment is deserved. It almost feels as if embarrassment could be the emotion for a new DD husband the first time, but we go past that to something stronger. With regard to self-reporting, I’ve done that and have no problem with it at all. I’ve recounted this before but there was a driving incident when I was alone in the car and she couldn’t possibly have known about it if I hadn’t told her. The punishment was pretty severe - and rightly so, but I not only deserved it, I needed it to wipe the slate clean in my own mind, so I feel no embarrassment in that situation. Like many here, I’ve thought a lot about a witness. It did kinda happen once. Just before Covid, she was recovering from shoulder surgery and unable to spank at all. We invited someone we knew in the lifestyle to visit. My wife directed and our guest wielded the implements. My wife had me naked and strapped down, spread-eagled over the bench before her “assistant” arrived and I was not allowed to speak. The two women seemed to enjoy the experience. I don’t know how I’d feel being spanked by my wife with a witness present, I’m assuming she would know what was going to happen but might not have any experience of such things or be in any way in the lifestyle, so it would be a new experience for her. I can imagine that embarrassment might be the feeling in that situation, but I’d be interested to find out. TG.
OTK has also been our go to position, and it does have the effect of making me feel very vulnerable. Like TG, I have self reportred about bad driving, which will always earn me a hard paddling. The result has been that I now drive with more caution, and don't rush to make it through a light. His description of wiping the slate clean in his own mind really describes what fully intergrated DD looks like. It took me a long time to get to that level of trust and honesty.
Delete"I needed it to wipe the slate clean in my own mind . . ." I've done that a few times, but very few. And, for me, it was embarrassing to ask for one. Though, I think the embarrassment for me is more about admitting the bad behavior.
DeleteProbably like men who came to DD through the DWC, we started with OTK spankings. But, they just didn't work at that time. From what I recall, what I felt was awkwardness--physical awkwardness--not embarrassment. When we tried it again several years later, it did work, and I think there was some embarrassment involved. It's an intimate position, but one that I do associate with emotional vulnerability and also a loss of control.
Dan, we are similar about having a difficult time asking for a spanking, which is what self reporting amounts to. We also share the feeling of being embarrassed about having to admit bad behavior. That's why I try to text her as soon as the bad behavior happens, before I start thinking about it too much. She has told me she is pleased that I have been honest with her, and I feel like it is my responsibility to make our DD real. Her responsibility is to hold me accountable and not let things slide.
DeleteI agree that self-reporting is tantamount to asking, though for me, coming right out and asking for it adds another layer of embarrassment, and it also brings and even firmer sense of inevitability. Also, when I've come right out and asked, it's tended to be on things that mattered to me for some reason but weren't really anything she cared and/or that violated any sort of established rule.
DeleteThat’s an interesting distinction Dan. It seems that you’re less likely to self-report on established rules vs. your own personal accountability interests. I’d be curious if that is common and if you feel that is consistent with wanting Anne to be stricter?
Delete-3pops
I think it's more that the established rules are few and far between and tend to be things that she is already aware of. Things like drinking too much or too late, temper and disrespect directed at her or that she witnesses, etc. Times that I've felt a real compulsion to self-report have tended to be in areas like being really careless about something that either cost $$ or created a dangerous situation. Those tend to be things that she either wouldn't witness--like things that happen on a cross-country motorcycle trip--or things that she might see as just kind of common mistakes or garden variety careless but that, in context, seem to me to be more serious or demonstrate a real lack of judgment. In an ideal world, yes, she would be more strict about those sorts of things without prompting. And, to some extent, she has. I asked her to start trying to be observant about carelessness issues, and she was for a while. It's an area we need to get back on track with.
DeleteDan,
ReplyDeleteGreat topic as it relates to our DD. It’s amazing how, I have no problem shedding tears at a funeral or a sappy movie. We were out on St. Pats day and I ran into an old friend. I was closer with his Father than him. I started reminiscing about those good times and got teary eyed. My wife came over and asked if I was ok. To be honest, I wasn’t. I missed our friendship immensely. Why can’t I let go during a hard thrashing administered by my loving wife. It’s the million dollar question. I think that some of it is manning up during the punishment. I also feel that Dan is correct. I think it has to be a slow buildup and a long punishment to get through to me. The scolding and build up would have to resonate with me l. My wife will embarrass me in front of people we don’t know. The best example was the gate agent on a cruise ship. The women heard my attitude, towards my wife, and said you should beat him. My wife didn’t skip a beat and responded, when we get back to the room, he won’t sit for down for a week. I could feel myself turn a shade of red. The gate agent smiled a grin ear to ear. I was embarrasse, but knew I wouldn’t see her again. As for our friends and family, it would never come up. My wife is to “traditional”. I think it would shed us in a different light; than she would not be comfortable with.
T
Yeah, I can cry absurdly easily in other situations. Some songs will set me off almost every time. In fact, one recently did, when I associated it with a close family member I lost last year. I've cried over sappy movie endings.
DeleteYet, spanking is very different. Some of the difference may be physical pain versus emotional pain. I don't know that I've ever in my life cried from physical pain, even after breaking an arme when I was at a young age where crying came pretty easily. So, I'm pretty confident that whatever it might take to cry from a spanking, it would not be directly related to the pure level of pain. Now, I do think there have been times when she paddled very fast at the outset that it sent me into something the close to the "panic" Alan described, but it was because the pain it so hard and fast that my mind didn't have the chance to get acclimated to it. I've wondered whether--despite you and Alan and others emphasizing that a long spanking is necessary--maybe what I need is the opposite -- very high intensity, right of the gate, with a very, very fast pace, so it kind of overcomes the "manning up" instinct.
Yeah, strangers knowing about it seems much less embarrassing to me.
One incident I sometimes forget about happened at work. I was working from home and having problems with my computer. I called our IT support and, after having me try various things, they took over my computer remotely. I could watch as the cursor moved around the screen and they typed things in. At some point, they tried to paste an instruction into the computer. Instead, what pasted was a snippet of a sentence that I had cut and pasted earlier in the day that contained a very clear spanking reference. There was nothing subtle about it. The tech (who was a woman I knew in our office) pasted it, and I saw it on the screen. There was a pause of several seconds, then she typed in the instruction she had tried to paste. She never mentioned it, nor did I. Coincidentally, I retired a few months later. She and I had had beers a few times before, I do wonder whether it might have come up had we been alone together over a few cocktails. Probably not . . .
Yeah - I've always had a fear of someone coming behind me and pasting an incriminating spanking reference onto a document of some sort. Through the years, my preference has been to use my home desktop in our home office. While this was "my" computer, my wife and kids often used it as well (even though they had their own devices) - so the kids coming across something was always a concern.
DeleteSo, I've made it a point to try and be diligent about copying something innocuous to the clipboard after pasting the spanking reference. And to keep a close eye on the browser history. Still, I know that I have not always remembered. --al
(Al here). When we began our DWC relationship, I had no idea if the spankings would actually bring me to tears. I had read accounts online of men stating they often cried when spanked - and had even written spanking fiction (before actually becoming a DWC husband) in which the husband cried - so I was open to the possibility, and was not of the mindset that I needed to resist crying in order to be man, and I am not one of those men who never cries - but I did not know if it would actually happen (and even initially had some doubt that it would).
ReplyDeleteHowever, somewhat to my surprise, that first real DWC paddling - a hundred or so hard whacks with a wooden hairbrush - while being scolded the entire time, had me mildly sobbing by the time she was finished with my bottom.
Neither of us mentioned it, but after a couple of spankings that had brought me to obvious sobbing, I did bring it up, concerned that crying would make me seem unmanly. Her response was very reassuring - that she she didn't see how anyone could take a spanking like the ones that I got and not cry - that she certainly would (not that she would ever consent to a disciplinary spanking).
She just sees sobbing as a natural and not unexpected reaction to a long, hard bare bottom paddling - and we never made it a point to discuss it. For her, it is just part of the spanking. On the other hand, I don't think she ever "tries" to make me cry (and I often don't) - or makes it a point to keep spanking until I do cry (although, I suppose, that even though she has never said so, it is possible that she may have had that motivation on occasion).
As I have mentioned before, spanking (especially a long spanking with lots of scolding, hard but not so hard that I can only concentrate on surviving the pain) - gives me the "headspace" for emotional submission - that I believe is integral to a real DWC spanking, whether I reach the point of actual sobs or not (although I usually do when I do reach that point of emotional submission).
I hope to add another post later (probably tomorrow) about embarrassment.
--al
That's really helpful stuff, and I'm very envious that you were able to get to real tears almost immediately after starting a DWC relationship.
DeleteThe funny thing is, I've never been consciously concerned that crying would make me seem less manly. If that is part of the problem, it's buried pretty deeply in my psyche. For me, to the extent the resistance is about embarrassment, I think it's more about the embarrassment of losing control more than seeming unmanly. But, it's hard to say. The resistance is clearly there. Yet, as I said in my response to T, it is absurdly easy for me to cry in some situations.
Al’s comment “because the pain is so intense it has my entire attention with no room for emotional reaction” is totally true for me. Rapid, intensely painful swats put me in a state of mind where the pain encompasses my entire brain, leaving no room for remorse or even panic. It’s all about just trying to survive at that point. The only time I really cried from a spanking was when I was truly remorseful about things I had done (and failed to do until it was too late to remedy) and the pain was at a lower level where I could still think. So that’s the emotional connection people write about. “Panic” is another word that has been used here. Although I haven’t experienced it, I’m guessing that could also trigger true crying. In this scenario, extremely painful implements would be used with great force (think a cane or a rubber strap), but at a slower pace, say four to six swats per minute, so that the pain subsides between strokes to the point where the recipient can think again about something other than the pain. And what is thought about is intense fear about what is still to come, with the recipient being convinced he is not going to be able to handle it.
DeleteI don't know whether the slow pace would help or hinder me getting to panic. On those occasions where I've felt something like an overwhelming sense that I can't take it, it's almost always been near the beginning of the spanking and/or when she is landing a flurry of swats. I find my mind can acclimate to A LOT of pain if given time to do so.
DeleteI am partly on topic here. I had weekly spanking, which is basically maintenance, but has really evolved into a reminder of my wife's authority, which I admit that I need. This time, after it was administered, my wife said, don't put your clothes on yet. So, I went with her into the dining room. She spent about an hour talking about three things I either did or failed to do. I was silent. Ater she was done, she said, you can put your clothes on now if you want. That is the closest that I get to embarrassment. As I mentioned last week, I recently agreed that she could ground me (by taking my clothes) whenever she felt it would help us. She has done this three times in the last couple of weeks. I definitely pay attention and listen more attentively while waiting until your clothes are returned. She is starting to use both this and spanking more often to empower herself in our relationship. E
ReplyDeleteI don't know whether nudity itself would embarrass me. I kind of doubt it. But, I don't doubt that it would empower her to some extent.
DeleteI love this, the enforced nudity makes it obvious that you’re in penalty box as it were. Calling it grounded from clothes is superb. Bravo.
Delete-3pops
My wife used this again today. No spanking. Just 'give me your clothes.' Then, after I was naked. She asked me to do something that I would have blown off. I said yes. Then without asking, she told me to sit down. Then she took out a brush and started brushing my hair (I have l8ng hair). I definitely would have declined. I just sat their naked. When she was done, she said I could have my clothes back. Definitely a demonstration of authority.
DeleteThe last post was E. I forgot to ID
DeleteInteresting theme this week which makes me feel I'm slightly wired differently and an outliner on here at times. Take embarrassment. I just don't have any, when pulled up by Mrs GL. I do go passive, which I see as slightly different but I don't blush. I do get a slightly nervous before every form of chastisement (home or professional) but I class that as part of the inner build-up. If Mrs GL were to make any comments in public I don't believe I'd respond embarrassed? It may be because I don't see the dynamic as one that should cause embarrassment, in my head its as much a legitimate choice as any other couple makes (in my mind I can almost see myself as a evangelist for adult F/M DD and non BDSM FLR's). I'm not keen on witnesses per-say as I think the act of spanking should be done only in sight of those engaged in it. And whilst I have no intention of sending my grown kids off to therapy because they one day over-hear Mrs GL whooping me I am indifferent to whether sound has travelled to peak someone's consciousness.
ReplyDeleteOn crying I'm very much like Dan, I don't when being spanked hard (usually non home situations) but am fascinated by the prospect I will. The closest I have come is whilst in a maternal role-play situation where I was in "the zone". My suspicion is that it won't be the intensity of the whacks but the context: words that cut deep from a person you love plus the vulnerability of going over their knees would I think provoke some sobbing even if the level of chastisement was moderate. I have read a few stories that have the male almost hysterical before a single smack as landed and I do find that attractive. Maybe one day I'll bawl but I won't be holding my breath on it happening.
Speaking of vulnerability, I find that being in a position awaiting chastisement most people would feel vulnerable in actually calms me and makes me feel safe. Daft I know but that is how it has gone for me on numerous occasions. My head doesn't really accept the norms here. The strangest example is I worry more about my top half being naked than my bottom half, completely counter-intuitive to most!
Like I say, its just probably me. Cheers GLM.
I kind of get what you mean by feeling calm in positions where others feel vulnerable. I've done meditation for so long, that if left alone and not allowed to do anything but sit or stand there, I almost always go into a very calm, meditative state.
DeleteI am surprised that some people experience numbness when getting a prolonged spanking. I have never felt this. In fact the pain keeps increasing until the end. As for crying, I never really sob but certainly there are tears in my eyes during most spankings. And she does notice this when she finally lets me up, and sometimes comments on it.
ReplyDeleteI do feel embarrassment after the spanking,, especially when I'm putting on my pants again and she is watching me and reminding me of the reasons for the punishment.And I still feel some embarrassment for the rest of the day as we go about our "normal" activities.
I don't really feel embarrassment when going about normal activities after a spanking, but I definitely feel an ongoing sensitivity or attentiveness to what happened. And, when we were first experimenting with DD, I recall returning to work after a spanking and having the overwhelming sense that people in the office could sense that I'd been spanked.
DeleteI think I've mentioned before that one of my desires (unlikely to be fulfilled) is to be sent by wife to one of her friends for a spanking. Of course this would be terribly embarrassing, but I still would love that experience.
DeleteDan wrote: "I don't really feel embarrassment when going about normal activities after a spanking, but I definitely feel an ongoing sensitivity or attentiveness to what happened"
DeleteThis sums up my experience as well. I don't any experience any embarrassment with my wife in regard to a spanking - or afterward. I don't believe that I ever have. However, I have been humbled many, many times over the years - but not embarrassed. And, like Dan, I am very aware that I was spanked in the hours that follow - as well as the underlying reason for the spanking.
For me, the embarrassment comes in around other people knowing that my wife spanks me. (I hope to come back to that later in a separate post). --al
Tom, same here. Being sent to someone else for a spanking pushes a lot of buttons for me. Or, having my wife take me to a friend's home, knowing I will be spanked there by someone else. I don't know why those scenarios hit me so hard but they do. The first two fiction stories on the DWC site are entitled Pretty Legs I and II. The first, in which the man is spanked by his wife for leering at a friend's legs, does do something for me, but largely because it is one of the stories in which the wife imposes the DD arrangement over the husband's objections. In the second story, the wife takes him to the friends' home, and he knows he will be spanked there by the friend. That one gets me because there is something so anxiety producing about having something like that scheduled in advance, the drive over, etc. Early on in our DD relationship, my wife ordered me to come home at lunch for a spanking. I still recall that 20 minute drive from work to home as being one of the longest of my life.
DeleteAl, same with me -- the elevated awareness is of both the spanking and the underlying reason.
Delete-al said " I don't any experience any embarrassment with my wife in regard to a spanking - or afterward. I don't believe that I ever have. However, I have been humbled many, many times over the years - but not embarrassed"
DeleteI strongly concur with al -my ego humbled-yes,but humiliation -no. To me the latter is more associated with BDSM ; but humbling ,more with DD. Given the nature of adult disciplinary spanking, the ego gets some healthy accountability .
Alan
I tell Dev I trust her completely when I’m over her knee. I know sometimes it will hurt like hell but I know she won’t go too far. We are very private about our “ discussions “ and never share those . JR
ReplyDeleteI have never cried but try my best to keep my reaction to the spanking stoic and find it embarrassing when I instinctively et out a yelps or reaction if she spanks a certain spot really sharply .
ReplyDeleteI also find the moments immediately after the spanking when I'm getting off her lap embarrassing and uneasy for some reason . Perhaps that is when the embarrassment of the situation sinks in that I failed to remain stoic?
Does she say anything to you as you get off her lap that might add to your embarrassment?
DeleteIt's a bit of an awkward moment but she does have a look of satisfaction.
DeleteGood post, I have the same fixations and I've thought about it some over the years.
ReplyDeleteMy own view is that much of what drives all this emotionally is differences in status and times where those differences are not just exposed but emphasized. So what I see bringing on a feeling of vulnerability, is simply her being in a position of authority which she feels is appropriate to the relationship and an eager, smirking willingness not just to exercise it, but to have occasions where her subordinate affirms it in a manner at odds with his own dignity.
As a side note, I wonder if this might be part of the reason why so many disciplinary spanking fetishists have a hard time bringing it up to their partner. There might be an intuitive knowing that a power tripping, but loving, partner who doesn't see them as having the same status and who is quite willing to impose some constraints on their autonomy is an important element in building the kind of headspace they long for and that asking for discipline for breaking certain rules doesn't line up with that sort of dominance. And then there's less of an emotionally charged battle of wills kind of tint to the whole occasion.
It makes sense that those who have cried hard while being spanked point to the importance of scolding. Being held accountable by a romantic partner who considers you in need of discipline is humbling.
I tend to see hard crying as an expression of acknowledging authority. An unstated but heartfelt and deeply embarrassing declaration that "You're in charge here. This is the right way to handle my misbehavior. Spanking works!", validates the disciplinarian's beliefs about their relative status and her role.
So much of spanking in general is about a demonstration and reestablishment of authority. Some of the language of spanking is about this, e.g. being put in one's place, or receiving a reality check, as is the emphasis on the spankee being humbled in multiple ways (e.g. listening instead of talking, having to justify one's behavior to someone else, state of dress, physical position) instead of it being strictly about pain.
Maybe instead of pain it's more often feelings of embarrassment and shame from being humbled that increase until one is overwhelmed.
"My own view is that much of what drives all this emotionally is differences in status and times where those differences are not just exposed but emphasized." I think there is a lot of truth in that. Sometimes an express show of authority, or even big confidence, by her will bring up that feeling of vulnerability.
DeleteRegarding why some don't bring it up to their partners, for me, it was kind of the opposite. The trepidation I had about bringing it up was all around recognizing the reality that I had had virtually unlimited autonomy to that point but, if she proved willing to try the DWC lifestyle, I would lose a great deal of it. At the time, that prospect felt compelling but also threatening in a very real way. Asking her try it did make me feel vulnerable, but the real vulnerability came from projecting what it might prove to be like if she said yes.
I suspect you are right about hard crying as an acknowledgment of someone else's authority and a very stark admission that one has been put in one's place. I don't doubt that is part of the emotional hurdle for me. It's an act of real surrender. And, from the other end of the paddle, I can see how it would be the ultimate validation of the spanker's superior status and her ability to enforce her will. In the post, I referenced KD Pierre's story "Pride". I think the reason it's one of my favorites (though, I think the ending is a little to "consensual" and accepting for my taste) is that the spanker is so up front that her goal in spanking him, when both of them know that she is equally culpable when it comes to the hostility in their relationship, is to take away his pride once and for all. The fact that he doesn't like her and that she isn't candy coating her motivation makes it *so* much harder for him to take a spanking from her, knowing the result will be a permanent change in the hierarchy, with him being subordinate to someone he genuinely does not like and has been in an ego-flexing context with.
Jake mentions the many ways you are humbled by a spanking - (e.g. listening instead of talking, having to justify one's behavior to someone else, state of dress, physical position) instead of it being strictly about pain.) Well said. Especially the last two - her personally removing my pants and shorts and then my lying passively across her lap. I would also consider the humble acceptance of significant pain to be stark evidence of a subordinate status.
DeleteThe only real embarrassment I feel is in the minutes before a spanking. She has declared her intention and will often become quite matter of fact about it. That strong sense that I get at those times is of loss of control. I am awaiting instructions during those minutes, she will exude a confidence that seems almost unique to those times. She will ( usually) be very relaxed, taking her time before telling me to hurry up, get ‘ready’, telling me to get undressed, into position, etc. there is usually that short period where I am just standing there, waiting, whilst she gets out the strap and starts the lecture. I feel embarrassed and not in control. Nerves building as I await her instruction, knowing I will soon be very uncomfortable. Those few minutes are the essence of the spanking ‘magic’.
ReplyDeleteThe only other time I feel any awkward or embarrassing feelings is immediately when she stops. She will always ask me how I am feeling at that time and I always have a difficulty switching from the peak of pain to being able to articulate the wide range of mixed feelings.
Once I have asked for and received permission to get up and dressed then I usually feel calmness, a reduction in stress and tension, very little embarrassment. She may comment on the colour or warmth emanating from my buttocks and we will often talk very openly about what has happened, the effects and why it works. TB
I'd say you described the before and after embarrassment very well TB.
ReplyDeleteWives tend to do most of the talking before , during and after a spanking and like you I'm scrambling for words.
Asking a rhetorical question like how do you feel afterwards is typical.
She knows very well how you feel!
Jake, you describe "differences in status and times where those differences are not just exposed, but emphasized" which results in "bringing on a sense of vulnerability" and "her being
ReplyDeletein position of authority". These are fundamental and necessary components of a real DD relationship, which I desire and appreciate. Being in the subordinate role can be embarrassing, but for me, it doesn't feel like it is at odds with my dignity. In fact, I find it to be a very enjoyable kind of embarrassment. She doesn't smirk, but she will lovingly tease. I would agree that "So much of spanking in general is about a demonstration and reestablishment of authority." Her ongoing demonstration of enthusiasm r.e. her authority and our DD is reassuring to me. She knows that this dynamic is good for our relationship, and increases our intimacy.
What I actually find incredibly embarrassing is when my wife takes a seat in the designated wooden chair, sets the hairbrush on the floor, and calls me over. I have to kneel in front of her to make this easier for her (because of height) and she starts lecturing me as she removes my shirt, then I have to stand while she finishes undressing me completely. All clothes are fully removed every time. All the while I'm being told off, before I go over her knees.
ReplyDeleteI had a breakthrough about two years ago, and broke down into tears, with all out bawling, and sobbing. This was after years of D.D. with never crying once. Since then it's happened many times, and it comes much easier. (Edward)
Hi Edward. Its reassuring to know that you succeeded in getting to all-out bawling and sobbing, after so many years of not getting close. It gives me some hope.
DeleteInteresting post and comments. I would be curious to hear more about how many of you feel about your wife being in charge and embracing her role. Some of the comments almost sound like complaining about being in this subordinate position, when the usuial reason it is happening is because we almost always have asked for it. As mentioned before, I am grateful to have found a woman who is willing and able to discipline me, and seems to enjoy doing it. It may be painful and embarrassing, but my life and our relationship is better because of DD.
ReplyDeletePossible future weekly topic, perhaps. I'm sure Dan has covered this thought in some form over the years, but maybe time to revisit. Obviously, we will leave that up to Dan. --al
DeleteIn our relationship, my Wife is not "in charge" of either me or our joint activities and life. Instead, she has "supervisory authority" over me, to ensure I meet the highest standards. My highest standards for myself; "our" highest standards of me; and where, in her sole discretion, she established her own highest standards for me!
DeleteI suppose that if I didn't fully agree with either her standards for me, or our "joint" standards for me, one could say she is "in charge" because she has the right to personally override or enhance either, that make her "in charge." But the reality is that we both want me to meet the highest standards, and if she believed I am failing in some area, I appreciate her input and help, its not really "in charge," but rather "in assistance" of my recognizing my own shortsightedness.
Yes, I can try to do a topic along those lines. Anne and I had a recent exchange that might be a good lead in.
Delete(Al here). I know this is at the end of the week - although I would like to add that while I am often humbled over my wife's lap, I am never really "embarrassed". What has proven embarrassing is others knowing that my wife spanks me. This has only happened three times in 20+ years (although a couple of others may suspect) - and one did not matter because she first came out to us as having been into kink (including spanking) since her college years.
ReplyDeleteAs I have shared here a couple of times over the years, my wife's sister overhead a spanking within the first couple of years of our adventures - during a Saturday afternoon spanking when the kids were at an event. Eventually, over margaritas, she talked to my wife about it (she was honestly curious - being a bit kinky herself, it turned out) - and then they both told me when I joined them for a drink. Jus a few days later, my wife spanked me with the bedroom door open while her sister was there (and the kids not) - allowing her sister to come to the open door to watch. Both events were quite embarrassing, especially the spanking - but, honestly, the embarrassment was probably somewhat mitigated in that her sister is an attractive woman in our range. Eventually, her knowing about (and even occasionally engaging in) our lifestyle became just a fact of life - just as being a DWC husband had become such.
The far more embarrassing exposure, however, was when I discovered that my wife had told her poly boyfriend about our disciplinary lifestyle and that she had sent him texts along the lines of "he's getting a spanking for that stunt" or "he's much better now since I spanked him". I was honestly initially a bit horrified that he had been told (he and I are friendly, even if not best friends) and quite angry as well (but, in fairness to Susan, the initial discovery was somewhat inadvertent).
Eventually, however, I got over it and the three of us even had a long talk about it - although, while not judging at all, he never really did get it - and definitely wanted no part of it. (To Susan's chagrin - as she really would like to paddle him as well). Nevertheless, it was much more embarrassing initially than it had been with her sister finding out - simply because he was a man. I'm still not sure if it was more embarrassing because it was her poly partner - or if it would have been more embarrassing if was the man who lives next door.
He still (at least a couple of years since he found out) has not overheard or witnessed a spanking - although Susan has said that - while she is not going to try to make that happen (at least not for now) - that it could happen at any time if the situation warrants it. That, honestly, would be very difficult to endure - but I do expect that it may occur at some point. It is difficult to even imagine how embarrassing it would be for him to directly witness her spanking me - overhearing would be somewhat more bearable, but still very uncomfortable. Time will tell, I suppose.
I have posted here before that my wife and I transitioned to polyamory a few years ago - we both have other partners (although her boyfriend is reasonably "full time" and my partner is more of a casual, but ongoing thing). This is not really the place to get into that story - except that I will add - for clarity - that our situation has nothing to do with cuckoldry (sexualized humiliation in the kink world, And many cuckolds are spanked by their wives). Sexually, we are more of the "stag-vixen" model - but really polyamorous is the best description. --al
Hi al. Thanks for sharing this.
DeleteIt's interesting that your relative lack of embarrassment depends in part on whether the person who learns about it, or witnesses a spanking, is kinky themselves. I don't know whether that would matter very much in my case. Maybe it would, but I'm not sure. For example, in the comments above, Tom and I talked about the potential embarrassment in being sent to some other woman for a spanking. I think I would find that situation very embarrassing, and I think I would feel that way even though the woman doing the spanking was part of this same lifestyle. For me, it almost seems worse to get spanked by, or in front of, someone in the lifestyle, because they would know it was for real disciplinary reasons, and I think it's that connection between the spanking and the acts that resulted in it that results in the embarrassment for me.
Al,
DeleteWow that’s quite the dynamic of a change in the relationship. I would assume it takes a strong relationship on both parts, to be open minded about a poly relationship. I know my wife would never be open to it. I would love for my wife to send me to someone else for a disciplinary spanking. I’ve had a fascination for a while with the neighbor. My wife already thinks she wants me. I think it’s a women’s intuition. She is divorced with two small children. The lame husband is still around and I believe lives in the in law. Ive seen his girlfriend pick him up a few times. I’ve over heard her scold and spank her daughter one time. It wasn’t anything long. A couple of cracks and a cut it out type of thing. She has a bit of a fiery temper and she can scold. I’ve thought about being bent over and giving the belting of a lifetime. She is not physically attractive, and that is what I like about it. She has that no nonsense look about her. She is the opposite of my wife. She can be a bit loud and assertive. My wife is quiet and reserved, but make no mistake she can turn it on when needed. There is just something inherently interesting about being sent to a stranger for a thrashing. I think the embarrassment would be overwhelming and the vulnerability would be an experience like no other.
T
T - I doubt that you will see this as the new post has gone up - but I will leave a brief reply anyway. The transition to poly was at my wife's request - and for the first few weeks, she was the only one of us with a poly partner. My agreement to the transition was primarily altruistic at that point.
DeleteThe back story goes all the way back to the same night I confessed to my wife that I had a "mild" interest in being spanked - when too much wine led to us revealing our sexual fantasies. Her secret desire was an MFM threesome - although neither of us were ready for that. Until - after a couple of decades of MFM adventures being a favorite bedtime story - we both were ready. We arranged an anonymous encounter on a swinger site and she got to live out her fantasy (and while I was unsure going in, it turned out that had a good time was had by all). Unexpectedly, my wife and the anonymous dude hit it off (and actually we all were very comfortable) - and that fantasy-fulfilling anonymous anonymous encounter morphed into a poly relationship for them. (A few weeks, later I also entered into a casual, more part-time poly relationship with a lady friend that I had known for years, and that had always had a touch of chemistry). --al
Hi Dan,
DeleteAfter a long hiatus, I came back to perhaps the best topic ever, but I just saw it before the new topic came out. I will chime in on it, but obviously am missing out on the interactive discussion that might have happened had I replied sooner.
“As a preliminary matter, is Norton right that embarrassment is a ‘desired goal’ for disciplined males?” – For the first 40 or so years of my fascination with spanking, I would have said no, but over the past 10 years of actually getting spankings, I have evolved quite a bit and I would say “absolutely!” I expect it depends quite a bit on the individual, but at least for me, when I first started getting spankings, they lacked the emotional impact I was craving, so naturally I sought harder and harder spankings. But even the hardest spankings lacked the emotional punch that I was craving, which comes primarily from embarrassment.
“Is it why some of us are attracted to things like ‘witness’ scenarios? – Totally. In fact, my huge fascination with witnesses came along exactly when I was realizing that I wasn’t craving more pain, but rather stronger emotional experiences.
“Is embarrassment a big part of your DD dynamic or your attraction to disciplinary spankings?” – It wasn’t before, but is now, to the point that it has become almost the primary thing I think about with regard to DD/FLR.
“Is being embarrassed something you try to avoid at all costs, or are you like me and have a sort of morbid attraction to it?” – I try to avoid it at all costs in every other aspect of life, but crave it in the context of DD.
“How does your wife feel about the role embarrassment plays, if any, in your DD relationship? Does she try to avoid embarrassing you, or is it something she consciously tries to use when spanking you or in exercising her power in the relationship?” – I would say she definitely embraces it. However, she too recognizes that witnesses (or whatever) play a huge role in ramping up embarrassment, but like me struggles with how to realize that without too much downside risk.
-ZM
ZM,
DeleteUnderneath what feels like embarrassment -and the motivation for the embarrassment- is the taming of ego ( the expression of which can be a defense against feelings). I think embarrassment is a means and not an end--the end itself being the powerful and repressed feeling we can have within a disciplinary dynamic. The embarrassment of having my pants taken down for example deflates my ego but also opens the door to a flood of powerful emotions as I surrender to her authority
Alan
ZM, always good to have you back.
DeleteI probably could have written your second paragraph myself. I too spent a lot of years thinking that harder spankings, more severe implements, etc., would supply whatever it was that was seemingly missing. I'm not sure whether, at that time, I was even aware that what I was chasing was a more intense emotional experience. I think I did get that I wanted the kind of catharsis and strong emotional reaction that crying represented, but I didn't quite zone in on the fact that it was the intense emotion itself that I was chasing, crying being one possible expression of intense emotion. And, I don't think I got that it wasn't necessarily a single intense emotion I was chasing, and that something like embarrassment might itself be an intense emotion worth pursuing.
Alan,
DeleteI agree that embarrassment is much more a means than an end. And probably when I crave DD being more embarrassing, it is not because I like feeling embarrassed (I don't), but rather because it gives so much power to the whole dynamic.
Dan,
Exactly what you wrote... And I might mention that I have this blog to thank for most of my discoveries and insights about myself, about DD, and about my motivations for wanting a DD/FLR relationship dynamic.
-ZM
-ZM
" I would also like to talk about embarrassment and vulnerability in the context Al and Alan raised, i.e. crying."
DeleteI just realized last night how strange it was that I commented on a subject that was really about crying, which is certainly my strongest "trigger" with regards to spanking, without even mentioning tears.
"I’m still morbidly attracted to stories and videos that feature not just tears but real, true sobbing." - Me too. I really liked the distinction that was made between ending a spanking with a tear or two in the corner of your eyes and the complete loss of composure that comes with outright sobbing or even bawling. There is a world of difference. I have been "spanked to tears," but I haven't been spanked to the point of openly sobbing. And that loss of composure is the point that I continually hope to be taken to and fear being taken to.
On top of that, I think it is the risk of breaking down and openly sobbing that somehow fuels my morbid fascination with witnesses, since probably my biggest fear with having one or more witnesses is that they would see me cry, and that level of vulnerability is certainly scary. It is kind of interesting that I worry about it in a witnessed spanking scenario, since I have never been spanked to the point of sobbing in all the adult spankings I have gotten. Based on past experiences, if I were to end up being spanked in front of a witness, any tears would seem unlikely, and outright sobbing would seem almost impossible, but who knows how the additional large emotional impact of having a witness would affect that?
-ZM
I totally agree that crying in front of a witness is probably one of the least likeliest scenarios for me. For there to be any chance of getting to tears in front of a witness, I think there would first have to be an established pattern of me crying with non-witnessed spankings.
DeleteI agree that crying in front of a witness seems very unlikely. If anything, the witness would probably play the same role as a spanking that starts too hard, causing me to simply man up. However, I completely lack experience with witnesses, and have only scratched the surface of crying from a spanking, so I simply don't have enough experience with either of these things (and certainly not combined) to predict the interplay between them.
Delete-ZM
Same here. My instincts say I would have an even harder time crying in front of a witness. But, ultimately, who knows?
Delete