tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6699266088923868373.post4497208164268185640..comments2024-03-29T03:08:12.803-07:00Comments on The Disciplinary Couples Club: Meeting 373 - Source of Change and the Necessity of Buy-InDan - A Disciplined Hubbyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01588294648648656600noreply@blogger.comBlogger55125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6699266088923868373.post-28958226826341398782021-04-28T06:47:08.365-07:002021-04-28T06:47:08.365-07:00MW, I find that we can talk and talk about an issu...MW, I find that we can talk and talk about an issue, and after weeks or months of seeing no change, all of a sudden it's like a lightbulb goes off and she suddenly goes in a more "take charge" direction.<br /><br />We also had a very "quantified" approach when we first started, and while we moved out of that phase a long time ago, I still think it's a beneficial approach for many when they are just starting out. It may feel artificial, but it builds confidence over time.Dan - A Disciplined Hubbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01588294648648656600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6699266088923868373.post-66170964561681105582021-04-27T20:38:43.391-07:002021-04-27T20:38:43.391-07:00Dan, that's good to hear. You're further a...Dan, that's good to hear. You're further along with those conversations than we were, since we just had that one talk about it. She backed off when I suggested she could bring up the issue as she sees it without checking with me on the definition of it. She wasn't upset by the suggestion, though.<br /><br />I bet we'll have to have several more discussions before her frustration level has grown to where she just says, "sure!"<br /><br />The specific issue is my pride keeping me from saying or doing something I should be doing. Our quantified approach can't handle that. Our most recent conversation helped break the ice on that issue because I was nervous about bringing up the accountability I wanted, and didn't explain myself well, but jumped in anyway.MWnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6699266088923868373.post-54338792596381618072021-04-27T16:59:21.360-07:002021-04-27T16:59:21.360-07:00I don't know what Sally thinks about that and ...I don't know what Sally thinks about that and I don't plan to ask. Maybe a good talking-to. Or maybe she thinks the reporting process and embarrassment is consequence enough. And ... not everyone thinks in terms of rewards and punishments. I intend to leave it a mystery.<br />LizAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6699266088923868373.post-4435643737127263902021-04-27T14:47:53.002-07:002021-04-27T14:47:53.002-07:00Liz, I was going to ask what Sally believes, if an...Liz, I was going to ask what Sally believes, if anything, to be the likely consequences for Art of the plan to rat him out.Dan - A Disciplined Hubbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01588294648648656600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6699266088923868373.post-66031741129684487072021-04-27T11:18:00.409-07:002021-04-27T11:18:00.409-07:00This is Liz,
Because Sally did not have a chance t...This is Liz,<br />Because Sally did not have a chance to speak with Art Friday afternoon, I delayed our Monday morning session until this morning. Sally did speak with Art yesterday, and he expressed his displeasure about it last night. He said he likes and respects her but does not think he needs somebody at work reporting to his wife about his work behavior. He said he finds it embarrassing and that he was quite red-faced while she was telling him about the plan. I told him we would speak about it further the next morning (today) after the kids were on the school bus, when I intended to make his other end just as red.<br />This morning after he assumed the position and I got his attention with a number of hard swats, I asked him if Sally had told him that she would not report to me unless he was okay with it. He admitted that she did say that, but at that point the "cat was out of the bag" and he didn't see any point in creating more trouble with me by saying no to her. I told him rather emphatically that I thought that was a good choice.<br />I also asked him whether there was any hint that Sally knew anything about the home consequences for his work arrogance, and he agreed that there was no hint that she knows about our DD.<br />We then discussed the need for me to have more information about his arrogance at work. He said it was a good idea in theory but he didn't much care for how it is now working in practice. I told him quite emphatically that there needs to be no resentment about the reporting and that any resentment would be addressed on Monday mornings, and he eventually agreed.<br />We then addressed the rude and sarcastic comment he made to his fellow salesman. With some encouragement he agreed that his comment was inappropriate. We then talked about whether he is engaging in a "pissing contest" with his fellow salesmen. At first he said he did not think he was, but I then elicited more comments that he had made to them, along with some comments and actions they had engaged in, that clearly showed they were in a competition that was other than friendly and appropriate. It took quite a bit of persuading for him to agree that he would step away from that competition, but eventually he saw things my way.<br />We then had a a discussion about the difference between making general comments in a group, such as about the length of a meeting, and making comments to a specific person that could only be construed as arrogant and rude. He agreed that there is a difference and he could do a better job of recognizing that difference and curbing the comments to specific co-workers.<br />I then told him he could stand up and go to work. I got my traditional kiss on the cheek and thank you, though a bit more subdued than usual, and I watched him walk rather gingerly out the door.<br />I think this will work just fine.<br />Liz<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6699266088923868373.post-80845956166489273442021-04-26T17:55:23.928-07:002021-04-26T17:55:23.928-07:00I just love conversations with the paddle. He is s...I just love conversations with the paddle. He is so easygoing! I say you are going to do this and not going to do that, and he says Yes Maam and No Maam and I Will Maam. Why couldn't husbands always respond this way?Bellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09715979249663789709noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6699266088923868373.post-34985385060185527222021-04-25T09:13:26.417-07:002021-04-25T09:13:26.417-07:00Dan,
Some answers to the questions posed this week...Dan,<br />Some answers to the questions posed this week.<br /><br />Q-Did he tend to respond best when the issue was most important to her? To him? To both? <br /><br />We discussed this but disagree. I think real change happens more and quicker when it is most important to her. That really motivates me especially when she is vocal and consistent about it. But she thinks when the behavior changes is important to both of us, its works best. She says that is the reason she works hard to make me understand why I do what I do and why some behavior modification is needed.<br /><br /> Q-Did the degree of up-front buy-in really matter with respect to whether the behavior actually changed? <br /><br />Absolutely. The firmer the buy in the faster and longer lasting the change. For many things this means permanent change and for a small handful of things it means a dramatic decrease in the offending behavior.<br /><br />Q-Have there been any instances in which an issue was important to her but not necessarily to him, but that her determination was such that the change was effected despite his lack of contemporaneous buy-in?<br /><br />Yes, quite a few over the years. A few of these have been major misbehavior which I just “didn’t get” until the conversations with her paddle. But most of them have been relatively routine and not major issues like promptness, certain language, more attentive listening and such. <br /><br />Alan<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6699266088923868373.post-22558834766106085232021-04-25T09:07:23.549-07:002021-04-25T09:07:23.549-07:00Liz,
Your interaction with “Sally” was really rath...Liz,<br />Your interaction with “Sally” was really rather amazing. She was much more forthcoming than I expected and you didn’t need to reveal more than necessary to accomplish a great deal. Five stars on this one and let him sweat a little. It will be good for him. Next spanking might be a good time to use your paddle as a truth teller with him. It might be interesting. I think everyone will be waiting for the next installment of this adventure<br /> Alan<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6699266088923868373.post-3915099568855416812021-04-25T07:58:51.278-07:002021-04-25T07:58:51.278-07:00To clarify, I would say that intentionally being l...To clarify, I would say that intentionally being late back from lunch (and similar behavior) is a form of work arrogance. Aren't you sticking it to the boss?<br />LizAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6699266088923868373.post-27572350628914038602021-04-25T07:50:30.274-07:002021-04-25T07:50:30.274-07:00I do appreciate the opportunity to scold and lectu...I do appreciate the opportunity to scold and lecture that DD provides. Without the paddle, I'm bitching and nagging and he can complain about that and not change the behavior that I am nagging about. With the paddle, I'm correcting and he knows he has to listen and improve. The power of DD in changing a husband's attitude about scolding is quite extraordinary. It's one of if not the best thing about F/m DD.<br />LizAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6699266088923868373.post-12747119272456094862021-04-25T07:45:21.320-07:002021-04-25T07:45:21.320-07:00Alan, to answer your question, if I heard he was l...Alan, to answer your question, if I heard he was late back from lunch or not doing good record-keeping or some other work issue, I think that would be within our agreement to use DD for his improvement, but I would discuss it with him first. I think it's a moot point, though, because he is always well-organized and always on time and his work evaluation was excellent in all other areas.<br />LizAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6699266088923868373.post-33547413934824087982021-04-25T07:40:29.413-07:002021-04-25T07:40:29.413-07:00This is Liz. I met with Art's co-worker for lu...This is Liz. I met with Art's co-worker for lunch on Friday. I will call her Sally. We have talked before at a couple of company social events, and I sort of connected with her, so I thought she would be the one to ask about Art's work behavior. I didn't really know how to broach the subject so I just jumped in. I told her I have been helping him with his arrogance at home, and that he has been telling me about some incidents at work but it was hard to know from him how serious they are. I was hoping she could share her observations.<br />She said that she is in virtually every company meeting that Art is in. She started by complimenting him. She said he is always respectful toward women at the office, and there are only a couple other salesmen that he has an issue with. She said she thought some of his issues with them are legitimate and some may be a typical male "pissing contest" to show who is the better salesman.<br />I asked her about specific comments he has made to others, and she remembered several. She said he tries to be funny in his comments, and sometimes they are but sometimes they aren't. She mentioned one comment in a long meeting where he said something sarcastic like, "Let's make sure this meeting goes until noon. Then we can take a two-hour, two-martini lunch and knock off early for the day." Everybody laughed at that and got the point.<br />But in another meeting he said to one of the salesmen something like, "I got your point the first time you said it. Do we have to listen to it an eighth time?" The response was silence and the other salesman was clearly offended. <br />He also pretty much ignores these two other salesmen he doesn't like. He is all business with them, no chitchat like he does with others and is typical in that office setting. <br />She said that to her Art doesn't seem to know the difference between a general comment made to everyone, like the meeting is dragging on, and a specific comment that is putting down one person.<br />I thanked her profusely and said that Art and I would talk about how to curb his arrogance and sarcasm at work. Then I hemmed and hawed a little bit, not knowing how to say what I wanted to say next.<br />"Do you want me to let you know the next time he makes an inappropriate comment?" she asked.<br />"Yes," I replied. "I didn't know how to ask you that."<br />"I will do it on one condition," Sally said. "That I tell Art that I will be ratting him out to his wife and he is okay with it. I don't want anything happening behind his back, and I don't want to lose my good relationship with him."<br />I laughed and said that was fine. Then we talked a bit more. She told me she thinks Art is a great guy. That he is very attractive for an "older man" and that some of the girls in the office flirt with him and he totally ignores it. He doesn't act offended but he doesn't respond, either. "He clearly is a one-woman man," she said, adding that she really respects that.<br />That night Art asked me what transpired at the meeting and I said quite a bit and we would "discuss" it Monday morning after the kids get on the school bus. He has been stewing all weekend but I think that's good for him. <br />Liz<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6699266088923868373.post-79046997664199797612021-04-25T06:18:58.601-07:002021-04-25T06:18:58.601-07:00Belle, I would be hugely embarrassed to talk about...Belle, I would be hugely embarrassed to talk about DD or about punishments before or after, and I can’t see myself bringing up the subject at any time. However, if she didn’t talk about it, I believe it would leave me with an empty feeling and of something left unresolved. It seems the one in charge should insist on discussing both specific issues and evaluating discipline in general. I see her demand that I be responsive, and open and honest about things, as a part of the existing power dynamic that pushes or pulls me into uncomfortable positions I would otherwise avoid. I think feelings forced out into the open can possibly be damaging but more likely enlightening and therapeutic. It can also strengthen bonds between partners.Bretthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16055467532238794485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6699266088923868373.post-54109241817599078412021-04-24T10:04:13.305-07:002021-04-24T10:04:13.305-07:00Hi Belle
You wrote; the thing is,” he is embarrass...Hi Belle<br />You wrote; the thing is,” he is embarrassed to talk about DD, whereas I want to. But maybe it's easier for the spanker because I feel no embarrassment. He just wants me to impose the sentence and carry it out and not discuss it before or after”. <br />This seems like some behavior I read about from males but it’s not my personal experience. We did informal debriefs after major spankings from very early and she made me talk about it and talk about all kinds of things from the effectiveness of the spanking to my feelings about it and also her thoughts and feelings and future expectations. They were designed as a kind of “after action “report and a road map forward. But we both have learned a lot about each other and that has led to an intimacy that really transcends erotic intimacy. Like Jimmy during a spanking the words do come out with me but they are mostly confessional, expressing regret or just surrendering to her. But the de-briefs are different. An imminent paddle is a male truth teller but it also inhibits really spontaneous sharing. Jimmy sounds guarded about his feeling now and he probably doesn’t understand some of them very well. You may want to work on getting him to talk and free up some of those thoughts he does have but AFTER the spankings (the next day is good). It will be well worth the effort.<br />Alan <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6699266088923868373.post-83600038458481367642021-04-23T21:49:31.641-07:002021-04-23T21:49:31.641-07:00These are all very helpful comments. I think Jimmy...These are all very helpful comments. I think Jimmy is like Dan - impulsive and situational amnesia plus hard habits to break. I don't think he is intentionally misbehaving. The thing is, he is embarrassed to talk about DD, whereas I want to. But maybe it's easier for the spanker because I feel no embarrassment. He just wants me to impose the sentence and carry it out and not discuss it before or after. He is responsive to my questions during, but he really has no choice about that with his bottom in the air.Bellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09715979249663789709noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6699266088923868373.post-2643089485304761972021-04-23T19:48:48.263-07:002021-04-23T19:48:48.263-07:00The different approaches to DD are fascinating to ...The different approaches to DD are fascinating to me. A fairly obvious one is where the wife (disciplinarian) simply escalates the punishment until the fear of it becomes strong enough to compel a change of behavior. That would work on some level for me under non-consensual conditions, and despite any antipathy I have about it, the idea is pretty erotic. However, the reality of a consensual relationship for me wouldn’t work like that. There is a limit to how far escalation could go before I decided to opt out of the arrangement. The reality is that a spanking is an important element of her authority and power, however, the excitement of shame and humility comes from her being able to convince me that she’s right, I’m wrong, that I deserved the punishment and change is warranted -- and that compels me to make an all out effort to correct the problem. If for some reason, I’m still unable to meet her demand, then I’m not sure how that gets fixed or at least improved. Simple bullying wouldn’t work.<br />Bretthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16055467532238794485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6699266088923868373.post-33153893014627698162021-04-23T11:10:44.611-07:002021-04-23T11:10:44.611-07:00Belle wrote: “Could he subconsciously want to expe...Belle wrote: “Could he subconsciously want to experience my power again? Or are old habits just dying hard?”<br /><br />This issue, broadly considered, is really recidivism and why it occurs in DD. We have discussed it before from several angles. Both Dan and Brett touch on many of the causes. In our experience there is no single cause for it. There was one poster on here a while back who said she dealt with it by escalating the punishment (doubling) until the behavior was extinguished with periodic follow-up’s (every few years, as I recall). I think she claimed it never took more than three escalations. We have not tried that but found that consistent follow-up and concentration on a limited number of behaviors does work. It’s also helpful to remember that the effects of spanking are cumulative and rarely (never really) has a single spanking ever shut down a behavior she wanted to change. Expectations matter here also. In our DD there have been two or three behaviors she wanted to eradicate (and I bought in totally) She also is comfortable with dealing with other issues from time to time that have been reduced but not eradicated ( Holiday misbehavior is the best example of that). And she has gradually expanded her authority over behaviors that were originally “not spankable” but are now. Spanking in DD can move mountains but not every mountain and you learn that as you go along<br />Alan<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6699266088923868373.post-47519249758527074602021-04-23T09:30:54.504-07:002021-04-23T09:30:54.504-07:00Hi Belle,
“…it is my unilateral authority that aro...Hi Belle,<br />“…it is my unilateral authority that arouses him so, even though he isn't very obedient about these things” <br /><br />I think that just about nails it. When she goes into that mode (you are in trouble) and just completely takes charge, the eroticism is off the charts. I don’t think I am less obedient after that kind of discipline but I am much hornier. I will admit I probably need more reinforcement on those things that begin as her own agenda. My former girlfriend used to talk about the “bum-brain connection” and she really did try to engage my brain through my bum.<br />Alan. <br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6699266088923868373.post-80655285326839677782021-04-23T09:11:11.603-07:002021-04-23T09:11:11.603-07:00The downside of saying no is I'm probably less...The downside of saying no is I'm probably less likely to even bring some things up in advance of doing them, on the premise that it's generally "better to say you're sorry than to ask permission," particularly if you've learned permission may be denied.Dan - A Disciplined Hubbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01588294648648656600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6699266088923868373.post-33347556249477598732021-04-23T09:09:25.337-07:002021-04-23T09:09:25.337-07:00It was pretty minor, but a change is a change. I s...It was pretty minor, but a change is a change. I said something about her habit of not getting around to something she had said she was going to do, and she responded, "Are you criticizing me? That sure sounds like criticism." We had talked over the weekend about her taking a tougher line on disrespect, and she seems to be following up on that.Dan - A Disciplined Hubbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01588294648648656600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6699266088923868373.post-60186704833820923962021-04-23T09:04:34.735-07:002021-04-23T09:04:34.735-07:00Belle, without knowing Jimmy, it's hard to say...Belle, without knowing Jimmy, it's hard to say. I do think some old habits die hard and slow. Speaking only for me personally, I truly don't think I ever engage in bad behavior for the purpose of giving her the opportunity to display power or authority. More often, it's either something I do on impulse, like saying something snotty or disrespectful before I catch myself, or "situational amnesia" where I pretty much forget that the activity could get me spanked. I've talked about the fact that after I have one or two beers, I completely forget any danger in having a third. People can choose to believe it or not, but that's the way it works for me -- I just totally forget about consequences in that context. Then there are isolated acts of just not paying attention. I've managed to accomplish quite a bit in my life, despite having an incredibly short attention span. I may genuinely intend to do something like clean a rice cooker, but five minutes into cleaning the kitchen after dinner my mind is off onto some other activity, and I just don't think about completing the task at hand. I really am pretty close to having adult ADD.Dan - A Disciplined Hubbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01588294648648656600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6699266088923868373.post-2843933369115496732021-04-23T08:43:27.540-07:002021-04-23T08:43:27.540-07:00Hi Liz
Your firmness and follow –through here are ...Hi Liz<br />Your firmness and follow –through here are impressive. As you go down this road I have a question since you have defined your DD to exclusively focus on Art’s arrogance and its consequences. My question is: what will you do if you discover in his work behavior other problems beyond arrogance which are keeping him from his best. Will you just roll with it, add it to your existing DD or disregard it as outside your ambit of authority, or all/none of the above? <br />Alan <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6699266088923868373.post-71172585261263946492021-04-23T05:05:05.201-07:002021-04-23T05:05:05.201-07:00Perhaps many of us are Belle, I know it really res...Perhaps many of us are Belle, I know it really resonated for me when I saw my 'offences' in writing.<br />I recall being surprised the list was so long and that some of them upset her so much.<br />It wasn't long before she 'taught me to memorize that list, and those offences occur much less often these days , especially since she started with the 'warnings.<br />Glenmorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10011257092494429520noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6699266088923868373.post-26885016969699689922021-04-23T00:10:49.853-07:002021-04-23T00:10:49.853-07:00The way I see it, in order to be bent to her will,...The way I see it, in order to be bent to her will, or have her “teach me a lesson” it would require that my behavior or attitude is actually corrected. If I repeat what she’s trying to correct, that would demonstrate an undermining of her power and diminish the eroticism. I can see where a particular form of misbehavior might carelessly or unintentionally occur a second time, or maybe a few times over a long period of time, but unless there is some immediate authentic change to demonstrate that her control is real, it’s only the appearance of influence and power. If I’m needing another punishment for the same repeat offense, it would really be because she hasn’t convinced me of anything. At this point, there's a meeting of minds that has to happen that goes beyond punishment and power exchange.Bretthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16055467532238794485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6699266088923868373.post-66644937063116626442021-04-22T22:40:01.956-07:002021-04-22T22:40:01.956-07:00I need to start doing this. A public warning of so...I need to start doing this. A public warning of some kind.Bellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09715979249663789709noreply@blogger.com