“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.” - Mark Twain
Hello all. Welcome back to The Disciplinary Wives Club - Tribute. Our weekly on-line gathering of women and men who are in, or would like to be in, a Domestic Discipline relationship.
I hope you had a great week. Mine began with a little stressfully, with an unexpected house problem that I initially thought was potentially going to be very serious and expensive. Thankfully, it didn’t turn out that way, but it stressed me out enough and took enough time over the weekend that it left me with in a mood that wasn’t conducive to posting.
I’ve also been in an “off” mood about DD since the double spanking I talked about in the last post. I'm sure part of it is really wanting to avoid anything like that in the near future, but I've also experienced a general lull in my DD interest. I probably shouldn’t be surprised.
In retrospect, I’ve probably had that reaction every time there has been some substantial change in our dynamic that seemed to portend me having less control over the way the DD aspects of our relationship work and the more it feels like I am perhaps "getting more than I bargained for". I think after hitting one of those inflection points, the reality of the potential change hits me, and my subconscious spends some time mulling it over. I’m very sure that the drop in interest isn’t permanent and, in fact, I can feel it coming back a bit as I write this.
I also try to keep in mind that I specifically asked for the double spankings Anne gave me that left me sore for close to a week. And, although I definitely would NOT want a repeat anytime soon, I do think they had the intended effect, which I wanted because I felt like after having a surprisingly offense-free month or so after the holiday, I was starting to backslide. Hopefully, those two very painful spankings put me back on course for an overall better 2026.
In part because my DD interest level dropped a bit over the last week or two, I didn’t have a lot of inspiration for new topics going into this weekend. Thankfully, Alan had supplied something a couple of weeks ago that he suggested could be a topic. I’ve pasted below what he provided in his two comments, though I’m really going to need some further help from him to make it into a real topic, as I don’t have much to go on as to how this was put together. His comment began with:
“An enduring theme on the blog over the years has been the prevalence of female led discipline and the question of whether it is increasing. The convergence of multiple data bases together with enhanced AI capabilities now makes a grounded estimate possible. I have done some of the work and am willing to share it if there is an interest. It might make a standalone topic. Some of the estimates confirm expectations while others challenge conventional assumptions. Please let me know.”
After he provided some of his work product, I asked if he could give any color on how the analysis was conducted and where the data came from. He replied:
“The paper is a draft I produced which is essentially a literature review. The source methodologies vary from observation studies to quasi experimental designs. I am sharing the results but not prepared to elaborate beyond them.”
Here is the draft outline/summary he provided:
***
Adult Spanking in Contemporary Relationships
Prevalence, Role Asymmetry, Generational Change, and Cultural Visibility
________________________________________
1. Purpose
This paper summarizes current inferential estimates and sociological interpretations regarding consensual adult spanking behavior in long-term and recurring relationships.
The emphasis is on:
1. estimated population magnitude
2. subgroup distributions (directional typologies)
3. changing visibility and cultural acceptance
4. increasing female-initiator participation
The discussion integrates demographic baselines, sexuality surveys, and communication theory rather than any single dataset.
________________________________________
2. Estimated Population Magnitude
United States baseline
Population ≈ 335 million
Adults (18+) ≈ 260 million
Adults in ongoing couples ≈ 156 million
Couples ≈ 78 million
Research synthesis suggests roughly 20–25% of couples engage in recurring spanking behavior (occasional experimentation rates are much higher; this refers to repeat participation).
U.S. scale
Measure Estimate
Couples involved 15.6 – 19.5 million
Midpoint ~17–18 million couples
Individuals ~34–36 million adults
This places the behavior well outside “fringe” status and closer to a common minority relational style.
________________________________________
Western-world magnitude
If similar prevalence is extended across North America, Europe, and comparable societies (~800 million population), the order-of-magnitude estimate becomes:
approximately 50–70 million couples
________________________________________
3. Directional Typology Distribution
Participants commonly classify recurring dynamics into four directional patterns:
• M/F (male initiator, female receiver)
• F/M (female initiator, male receiver)
• M/M
• F/F
Using orientation base rates and role reporting patterns, the approximate distribution inside the participating population is:
Typology Share of participating couples
M/F 55–65%
F/M 12–20%
M/M 10–15%
F/F 8–12%
________________________________________
U.S. estimated numbers (midpoint ≈17.5 million couples)
Typology Couples Individuals
M/F 9.6 – 11.4 million 19 – 23 million
F/M 2.1 – 3.5 million 4 – 7 million
M/M 1.8 – 2.6 million 3.6 – 5.2 million
F/F 1.4 – 2.1 million 2.8 – 4.2 million
Key observation: roughly one-third of participants are outside the traditional M/F pattern.
________________________________________
4. Generational Change
Younger cohorts show a distinctive pattern:
Earlier cohorts Younger cohorts
gradual discovery across decades early awareness of possibilities
experience produces categories categories guide experience
specialization in midlife selection early in adulthood
The behavior itself is not necessarily increasing dramatically;
the timing of exploration has moved earlier.
________________________________________
5. Increasing Female-Initiator Participation
The most notable shift is growth in F/M dynamics and female-dominant roles.
This appears to be partly behavioral and partly expressive.
5.1 Removal of reputational cost
For most of modern history, female initiation carried a social penalty.
Once the penalty weakened, previously latent preferences became actionable.
5.2 Role flexibility for men
Modern masculinity norms are less rigidly tied to constant initiation.
Some men now openly occupy responsive roles without identity conflict.
5.3 Negotiated intimacy
Relationships increasingly rely on explicit communication rather than assumed scripts.
When roles are chosen rather than inherited, distributions widen.
5.4 Visibility correction
Online communities revealed many shared preferences previously assumed rare.
Reporting increases faster than actual behavior change.
________________________________________
6. Why Visibility Has Increased
Three independent developments converged:
1. Internet communities lowered perceived rarity
2. Psychological vocabulary normalized discussion
3. Dating uncertainty increased the desire for clear signals
Thus, the rise is largely:
visibility expansion + earlier experimentation
Rather than entirely new behavior creation.
________________________________________
7. Conclusion
Consensual adult spanking appears to be a widespread minority relational behavior involving tens of millions of couples in Western societies.
Key findings:
• roughly 20–25% of couples participate recurrently
• one-third fall outside traditional directional patterns
• female-initiator roles are rising
• generational change reflects earlier exploration rather than universal increase
• primary function is communicative clarity rather than aggression
The phenomenon, therefore, represents not merely a sexual trend but a broader shift toward negotiated intimacy and explicit signaling within modern relationships.
***
Without knowing where the data came from, it’s hard for me to say much about the conclusions. The best I can really do is provide my “gut reaction” to some of it, while acknowledging that said reaction is entirely speculative.
One number that jumped out at me was the estimate that 25% of adult couples participate in spanking “recurrently”, defined as more than occasional experimentation. My gut reaction is that seems high, but maybe not wildly so. I assume that adult erotic spanking is fairly common, at least since 50 Shades of Grey came along and normalized exploration of spanking, along with other varieties of adult kink. But, as I said, I really have nothing beyond sheer speculation to offer one way or another.
My own spanking interest may be narrower than some of yours. Outside the disciplinary context, I’m not all that interested in spanking. So, data regarding the prevalence of adult spanking in general doesn’t pique my interest all that much.
More interesting to me is data regarding F/m spanking. Alan’s data shows that of those adults participating in recurrent spanking, 12–20% was "female “initiated”. Based on other context, it sounds like “initiated” in this instance means the woman is the spanker, not necessarily that the woman “initiated” the spanking aspects of the relationship, but Alan hopefully will correct me I’m mistaken about that.
I don’t know where that estimate comes from, but my gut reaction—again, entirely speculative—is that it seems about right. I certainly don't think the prevalence of F/m spanking is higher than that. I am very confident that the proportion of M/f spanking couples is much higher than F/m, and I wouldn’t be surprised at all if the ratio was around 9:1.
Another interesting thing about that part of Alan’s summary: If I’m reading it right, the combined distribution of same-sex spankings (M/M, F/F) exceeds the distribution of F/m. That too doesn’t entirely surprise me. I suspect that the incidence of spanking in the gay community is pretty high. I was intending to provide some numbers from a popular Reddit group focused on gay spanking. But, it seems to have been taken down sometime very recently. During the time when it was up, it was very active. Also, very graphic and, interestingly, more focused on disciplinary-type spankings than what I’ve seen in more generalized spanking forums. The fact that it was taken down may speak volumes about whether society has really become that much more tolerant of transgressive kink lifestyles.
Regarding whether spanking interest is increasingly popular among younger generations, Alan’s summary says, “The behavior itself is not necessarily increasing dramatically; the timing of exploration has moved earlier.” I don’t have any real view on that. Most studies show Gen Z has less sex than any prior generation and they start sex later. An earlier spanking interest seems a bit counter-intuitive in that context, but it’s all relative. It very well could be that Gen Z has less sex overall but that kink-friendliness is more prevalent within that more limited set of overall encounters.
One data point outside Alan’s analysis I will note: Pornhub provides yearly summaries of its most popular search terms and other trends. For 2025, “spanking” didn’t crack the top 30. But, interestingly, what interest there was in spanking and BDSM was heavily driven by women:
“Interestingly, Pornhub’s female visitors are also 160% more interested in content depicting people getting “spanked and fingered”, 144% more into “daddy spank” videos and 105% more into “spanking punishment” themed content.”
Unfortunately, Alan’s study doesn't include the prevalence of disciplinary spankings. For that niche within a niche, there seems to be a dearth out there of anything like real data.
I doubt that will change, but I also wonder if any methodology that starts with spanking in general, then drills down into DD, and then into F/m DD, starts in the wrong place. Maybe instead of starting with the prevalence of spanking, we should start with something like the prevalence of Dominance/submission relationships, or other relationship styles involving power differentials, then ask in how many of those the women are in charge, then ask in how many of those is spanking within the wife’s authority?
In any event, in a few older posts, I’ve talked about some of the reasons I continue to believe we are in a very small community, based in part on stats for participation in this blog. Over the last year or two, that data set has expanded a bit, thanks to me also posting on WordPress and writing some DWC-oriented articles on Medium. Here are some updated observations:
The number of views on this blog has gone up a bit over the last year, but that's after falling way off around 2020. There are lots of spikes and troughs, but the average is around 3k to 5k per week. (For reasons I can't explain, there was a big spike up to 12k earlier this month.)
Regarding the Medium articles, it’s hard to draw meaningful conclusions from that data. Medium has over a million paid subscribers, while I have 721 “followers”, which divides out to .000721. However, that’s not very helpful, because many Medium readers do not “follow” other writers, probably in part because followers are displayed for all members to see; I suspect that means that many people reading adult/kinky content do not feel comfortable “following” those writers.
A more meaningful measure is the number of people viewing and reading the individual articles. It's all over the map, but one article has gotten 61k views. A few others are around 20-30k, and many are in the single-digit thousands. (On Medium, a “view” means someone clicked on an article. A “read” means they stayed on that article for some defined period of time, indicating they actually read a substantial portion of it. For my articles, the “reads” tend to be 1/3 to 1/2 of the “view” total, which seems to be pretty typical for Medium.) In any event, those numbers indicate that some substantial number of people are interested in F/m DD and FLR-oriented content, though it’s still pretty trivial in the scheme of things.
Regarding WordPress, it’s reached about 3.7k views a week, even though I haven’t been posting there for very long and the engagement level (comments) is very low. Still, again, 3.7k is trivial among an adult population in the U.S. comprising around 78 million couples.
Regarding Reddit, there is a Domestic Discipline subreddit, which lists 3.9k weekly visitors. Based on the posts and comments I’ve read, it’s clear that the vast majority of active participants are in M/f dynamics.
Also, note that the above statistics relate to the number of people who view or read DD-oriented content. In other words, those who are interested in these lifestyles, which is almost certainly a much larger number than those who are actually participating in one.
So, I continue to believe that those who are actually in F/m DD relationships is a small niche, within another small niche (DD relationships of any alignment), within the larger spanking community, which itself is relatively small but not insubstantial.
Honestly, I doubt we’ll ever have even a loose approximation of how many couples out there practice F/m Domestic Discipline. So, to me, the more interesting question for discussion is how prevalent do we want the lifestyle to be?
I don’t want to put words in Alan’s mouth, but I’ve always gotten the sense that he would like it to be a fairly common and openly expressed relationship choice.
I, on the other hand, like that it is still seen as transgressive and norm-busting. I enjoy the taboo and the mystique, and that sense would be lost if it were to become mainstream.
But, that doesn’t necessarily mean that I want the prevalence to be as low as I suspect it currently is, because some of my DD-related aspirations, goals and fantasies hinge on the existence of an actual community of couples who are into this. Aunt Kay put it well in a note she sent me a couple of years before she passed away:
"We made friends with other couples and that was a whole other unexpected outcome. I never imagined disciplining anyone but my own husband. But it became easy for me after a while. I learned that some men need a lot more intensity than my Hubby and I had some really fun times delivering longer and harder sessions than he could ever endure. I still recall smiling to myself as I watched him head off with another DWC wife to get a spanking.
When we did things together with other DWC couples; like going to dinners, events, visiting for weekends, there was such a sense of liberation. Just hanging out, being able to talk about lifestyle stuff was amazing. It was like we knew we were special; we shared a kinky little secret when we were out among the rest of the world."
Her last sentence implies a delicate balance. The community has to be small enough to feel they share a special, kinky secret. Yet, it has to be big enough to actually bring some core group of people together. And, there has to be a high degree of openness and sharing among the couples.
And, it’s not only about the size of the community, but about where they are located and how open they are within the group. I definitely have a thing for the kind of scenarios Aunt Kay described, including being sent off to another wife for a spanking. Her husband has told me about that happening, and he’s talked about how some of the wives could and did make “independent spanking decisions” involving him.
Again, that scenario is something I find very appealing, though it implies several couples, probably living in close proximity, and with very open attitudes about the wives’ authority over all the males.
That all sounds like a fantasy that would be hard to pull off, and it probably is. Yet, in some ways it isn’t all that different from the parental spanking culture where I was born. In that place and time, it was incredibly common for relatives and friends’ parents to feel empowered to spank each other’s kids. It happened all the time. If that was once socially acceptable (and probably still is in some areas), is it really such a stretch to imagine couples in DD relationships to come to a similar arrangement once they got to know each other?
Anyway . . . please feel free to comment on anything that strikes you about the above. Although I think we can do little more than speculate, what is your speculation about how prevalent these relationships are? And, how prevalent would you like them to be?
Have a great week.










I don't care much about the size of the f/m DD spanking community. I just wish there was one where my wife would feel comfortable enough to talk to (and meet with) other women who spank their husbands. When the Spankingneeds website and chat were still active I got friendly with another guy from my area who was in a similar relationship. I also had an offer from a spanking wife on fetlife in my area who offered to talk to my wife. Unfortunately, she had no intetest.
ReplyDeleteNow that she has become more comfortable in her role (and more active), I wonder if she would be more open to it. For her, I think any discussion would have to be with someone she already knows.
I do follow Dan on Medium (where he goes by JC Cole). I always look forward to new articles. I'm not familiar with the WordPress site. What is the content there and how do the audiences differ? What is your objective in creating content on the different platforms? Have you considered Substack? And wasn't there talk about a book at one point?
I'm curious about your overall strategy and thankful for the well written content you produce and the community you offer here.
Tom
I used to think Anne would be resistant to talking to others in the lifestyle if she didn't already know them. But, based on some of her growth over the last year or two, I'm trying to remind myself that I need to stop making assumptions about what she would or would not consider doing.
DeleteIt would overstate things to say I have a "strategy" in mind for content distribution. The various platforms I'm using came about for different reasons. I started on Blogger, mainly because it was one of the earliest and easiest blogging platforms when I first started thinking about writing about this stuff on-line. My career was technology adjacent, but I'm not a real techie. So, my priority was something easy to use, and Blogger fit the bill.
Medium really began as an experiment. After retirement, I was looking for new hobbies, creative outlets, etc. I started writing on vanilla topics on Medium under my real identity. It proved to be easy to use and pretty easy to build an audience. I decided to try writing some DD content, under a different profile. I decided not to use my "Dan" identity, and I initially didn't announce the move here or provide any link on Medium articles or profile back to this blog. That was a conscious decision, in part to test the big question raised by this current post, i.e. "how many of us are out there?" I wanted to see how much interest DD-related material would draw on Medium without leveraging this blog's user base. After I felt like I'd gotten as much traction as I was likely to get, I started putting direct references to this blog into my articles and profile on Medium, hoping to direct more new participants back to this blog. Medium is a good writing platform, but I've found that for this kind of content, it really sucks for user engagement. Because most people on Medium use a profile linked to their real identity, and because comments and "likes" reveal that profile, even articles that get many reads yield virtually no discussion.
My WordPress posts are verbatim copies of the posts here. It really began as a form of backup or archive. I created a very basic version a few years ago, when Google went through one of its anti-adult content phases. I just wanted to make sure that I had an alternative ready to go if Blogger shut this blog down. I got more committed to having it up and running about two years ago, when Blogger again started fucking around with access and sign-in process for adult blogs. The final straw was when Anne started having problems accessing this blog. Since then, I've started routinely copying each post here to the WordPress site. I also imported all my old posts, which serves OK as an archive, but it screwed up a lot of formatting and the comments didn't come over cleanly, but it was better than nothing. I've thought about trying to transition to using the WordPress version as my main blog, but I've found WordPress to be harder to set up, and I don't like some things about the layout, including the comments. I've also seen WordPress shut down some adult blogs, so it's not like it really solves that particular problem with Blogger.
I have thought about Substack and likely will do that at some point.
I also have tried setting up Reddit subreddits a couple of times. Reddit proved to be surprisingly difficult to work with. Every time I tried to set one up, it would almost instantly get taken down, with no explanation why, other than I had violated some unspecified rule. I think the problem was the profiles or descriptions I set up all had references to the DWC or to this blog. In retrospect, I think that Reddit flags references to other blogs or websites as bad faith attempts to delete traffic away from Reddit. A few months ago, I tried to set up a new one, and this time I was careful not to reference any other blog or website in my profile, in the subreddit description, or in my first post. So bar, it hasn't been killed, but I haven't really done anything with it, other than a couple of introductory posts.
Thanks for taking the time to explain all of that.
DeleteI think my wife is going through her "growth stage." Does Anne now have friends she talks to about spanking, FLR or DD?
What's the name of the Reddit sub you created? I've been very disappointed with the FLR and spanking subs on Reddit. I'd love to have one that remains closer to this sort of content rather than the BDSM and Only Fans stuff. I miss not have a place to chat with others in similar relationships and with similar interests.
Tom
She doesn't, but it's really that we just don't personally know anyone in a DD or FLR dynamic. She has talked a few times with the vanilla friend who I told about our DD relationship, but that's really it. So, I think at this stage it's more about opportunity that any objection to it.
DeleteThe Reddit sub is at https://www.reddit.com/r/SpankedHusbands_DD/ But, I've done literally nothing with it other than a couple of early posts. Part of it was that it didn't seem to draw any attention, but it was really more that I just got busy with other things and haven't paid sufficient attention to trying to build it up. There is another DD sub at https://www.reddit.com/r/domesticdiscipline/. There are some thoughtful posts and comments, but it is VERY heavily M/f, and I haven't gotten the sense that the F/m dynamic is very welcome there.
Hi Dan,
ReplyDeleteHope things go well. I am in a somewhat frenzied period, but will try to answer any questions about the data used in my working) paper . I should be able to organize a reasonable bibliography and note on sources at some point. I will also try to answer any reasonable questions raised. Keep in mind, the estimates are subject to significant statistical error ( statistical variance) . Also , as I ran into repeatedly during my analysis, the subset using disciplinary DD is considered niche and some unknown subset of a much larger population engaging in various forms of adult spanking. At one point I probably did want to argue that Female led DD is more common than believed. I think that is almost certainly true. But at this point I would only like to encourage some grounded consensus on where it all fits. ( Btw, the asides on Gen Z did surprise me some, but the plausible explanation is that this generation simply knows much more about human sexuality and its nuance than previous generations did. Thus a 25 year old today might be comparable in sexual sophistication to a 45 or 50 year old from gen x or millennial. So a boyfriend proposing DD is likely to face less bewilderment and maybe less resistance.
Alan
No hurry. I kind of doubt we will ever see much real data on DD and even less on F/m DD. I can really think of only two sources I've ever encountered. The DWC posted a couple of surveys, in 2007 and 2009 from what I see in the versions I kept. The summary of the 2009 survey said it had 1250 participants. Of those, about 43% said they were in a "DWC relationship"; 52% said they were not; and about 14% said they were not in any relationship.
DeleteI also at some point read a PhD dissertation that focused on Domestic Discipline. It's quality was pretty marginal. As I recall, it didn't include any research regarding the prevalence of these relationships, and what data it did provide was drawing largely from the DWC website.
You're probably right that a Gen Z boyfriend is likely to face less bewilderment that someone those of us who are Gen X or Boomers might have encountered. Of course, that generation is so resistant to face-to-face relationships, they also are probably more likely to just surf the internet for DD porn and never actually ask for such a relationship.
"the subset using disciplinary DD is considered niche and some unknown subset of a much larger population engaging in various forms of adult spanking." As I said in the post, this all does have me wondering whether we should be looking at DD as a subset of adult spanking or, rather, as a subset of "power exchange" or "power differential" kink relationships, like Dominance/submission. Many of the people here have said that they may have started with an interest in spanking, but they came to realize over time that at the root of that interest was the desire for female authority. I'm not sure how that change in approach would change the numbers, but I suspect that the subset of people in F/m dominance relationships who employ spanking as part of that dominance is higher than the subset of people who are into spanking and engage in spanking for real discipline/punishment. Of course, I could be totally wrong about that.
Disentangling all this ,especially when animating motives are at issue, can feel like living in a Greek Myth. But once we can agree on the variable measured,modern statistics can yield some incisive answers. This is one reason researchers often use reported behavior as the variable of interest. It can be measured. The ongoing experiments in survey research combined with agentic AI promise a great amount of valid information on sexual behavior topics,heretofore inaccessible . As an aside,one big reason I feel F/M spanking is more frequent than conventionally believed is the slightly obscure but well regarded theory of pluralistic ignorance. In essence it holds that if one believes your view of behaviors are not widespread or a decent plurality will cause most people to systematically under-report them ( this was the Trump polling problem in 2016) In this still very puritan culture,we would expect plenty of tha for any sexual behavior the missionaries don't approve.
DeleteAlan
"This is one reason researchers often use reported behavior as the variable of interest." Agreed, though I think TG identifies a big challenge -- sometimes the behavior itself may not tell you much about the "why" or even help much with classification. If one is engaged in spanking because they have a fetish, and one is doing it because of the power dynamic, and one is doing it for performance improvement, and one has a thing for female authority, and one is just a masochist who gets off on pain . . . the observed behavior may not tell us much about how something should be classified or whether these people are doing anything that is very similar, right?
DeleteI hadn't heard the term "pluralistic ignorance" but I like it. I still would expect, however, that even if people are reluctant to report their behavior or proclivities, it would show up in something like the on-line groups they join, the books they buy, etc., which is why I tend to come back to things like blog readership, Amazon sales of F/m spanking books, etc.
The couples with recurring spanking seems so high. I would think playful or erotic spanking would cover 99% of it, maybe quite a bit more. What are some potentially correlated proxies for discipline spanking?
ReplyDeleteHard to say. As I noted to Alan, above, I wonder whether DD might be better viewed as a subset of D/s relationships instead of a subset of spanking. It might be more closely correlated to the former. What would that mean for the likely prevalence? I don't know. I suspect that the number of couples who are into female dominance is quite a bit lower than the number of couples who are into spanking. But, it also might be the case that discipline/punishment is more common in female dominance relationships than in the overall spanking community.
DeleteAnother data set that would be interesting to see is Amazon sales of books exploring F/m DD and spanking themes. Unfortunately, Amazon provides ranking information within genres but not actual unit sales. And, far fewer men are regular readers than women, so knowing how many men bought a book with a F/m spanking theme might be a small portion of the men who are interested in such relationships.
On having a special secret vs having more openness, I only have experienced secrecy. Having our first honest conversation with another spanking couple would send multiple emotions through me. I hope we’ll experience it.
ReplyDeleteOne thing about sharing niche experiences is how they cut through lesser social boundaries. A Disciplinary Wives meetup must’ve had some odd pairings among the conversation or spanking partners, to its credit.
On the other hand, my wife being able to casually swap tips with her friends just as casually as any other domestic topic would be amazing to overhear, and advance our practice quickly. Maybe too quickly!
"One thing about sharing niche experiences is how they cut through lesser social boundaries."
DeleteThat's a really interesting prospect, isn't it? So many of our social exchanges, even with good friends, are so superficial. It seems like the intimacy and intensity of the DD context could lead to a much deeper social experience.
ReplyDeleteAs already pointed out, DD is likely only a small part of the total spanking community, but I think there’s another significant gap in the numbers as well. Alan lists M/f and F/m but ignores switch couples. I would be quite happy if our DD dynamic worked both ways (it’ll never happen) and I’m sure there are some couples who have that relationship. Moving on to classification - whether to view DD as a sub-set of D/s or of spanking, I’m not sure it’s a valid question as I’d see spanking as a sub-set of D/s. We originally met through a shared interest in spanking on an early spanking website in the last century. That grew into a broader D/s relationship (initially I was D, but we started switching early on and locked into the F/m dynamic quite quickly) then morphed into DD from there. DD didn’t mean we abandoned D/s either. So it feels to me as if this classification discussion is moot as non-DD spanking and D/s are two parts of the same thing. When I found this blog a few years ago I was hunting online for anything of DD interest and was disturbed to discover that most of the references I discovered were not only M/f, but were religion-based, seeing the man as the undisputed head of the household and expecting him to discipline his wife as he saw fit. We all understand that we’re in these relationships by choice, and you’ll remember that a little while ago we were getting some comments from a wife who was the receiver in a DD relationships. She clearly had the same attitude, that she wanted and expected to be disciplined. It seems to me though that if a woman is accepting punishment from her husband for reasons of religious beliefs, this feels like an abusive relationship and not a consensual DD one. As I said, this was the theme behind so many of the references I found, I wonder if this would skew any numbers we did have. As you’ve said, we really don’t know how many couples are in an F/m DD relationship, but we’ve certainly observed over the years couples that would benefit from it. I’ve mentioned before that we discovered the DWC after their final get-together and registered our interest in joining the next one - which sadly never happened. Even now, 25 years later, I would be interested in an in-person meet-up with other similar couples. I can’t speak for my wife but I suspect she’d be up for it. The idea that it might not be my wife that’s spanking me is intriguing, there is obviously a certain intimacy in being punished by one’s wife. Being over someone else’s knee would inevitably remove that intimacy and I suspect the result would feel like a more pure punishment. Not having that emotional connection might also be liberating for the spanker as well, which may result in a harder spanking. TG
"I’m not sure it’s a valid question as I’d see spanking as a sub-set of D/s." I'm not as sure about that. I'm sure that for many people who are into spanking, it has a D/s vibe or is explicitly D/s. But, it's also pretty clear to me that for some, perhaps including many who have a true spanking fetish, it doesn't have that power shifting angle. When I think of how I had my first inkling of being attracted to it, it came after a segment of the HBO series "Real Sex" on adult spanking, and I don't think the couples spankings they showed had much of a D/s element. Or, in Jillian Keenan's book Sex With Shakespeare, which tells her spanking fetishist story, it seems like some of her spanking experiences involve a D/s element, but it's absent from most of her motivation. Maybe instead of thinking of spanking as an independent relationship dynamic that fits within some other relationship schema, it's better thought of simply as an activity that may be engaged in in all sorts of relationship styles but for many different reasons, and those reasons may not have a common root?
DeleteI'm with you on religious justifications for DD. As much as we may gravitate toward "consensual non-consent", in reality it's critical that the focus be on the consent part when it comes to choosing to be in this kind of relationship. As soon as you bring in the idea of an all-powerful, punitive god dictating that one partner be in charge of the other, that whole idea comes apart. Though, I do have to wonder, in how many of those relationships is there an actual desire for discipline that is similar to our own, then the religious culture the person is in provides a convenient justification for it? Still, for me, the possibility for abuse seems high enough that I'm never going to engage much with that dynamic on the blog.
Your comments on the prospect of a couples' get together illustrate, for me, all the competing factors that would go into a good experience. On the one hand, you're right, that a spanking from someone else might seem less intimate. That might be a good thing, if it made the spanking more of a real punishment. But, to me that presumes that it was still for a true disciplinary/punishment reason, and that might be harder in the context of a scheduled group get-together, right? It seems like in the DWC gatherings, there was some attempt to get at that issue by having the wives identify, or the husbands confess to, things that he had done that deserved correction. Without that tie to actual accountability, I suspect the whole thing would leave me cold. As for whether less emotional connection might result in a harder spanking, I can see how it could. I also suspect that there might be an aspect of the wives "performing" for the witnesses, delivering a very hard spanking in order to show they could.
DeleteOn classification, I take your point. Having started with the spanking interest which expanded into a broader D/s dynamic, it’s always seemed get that way to me, but I guess that is not universal. I suppose there may be some religion-based DD relationships where the motivation is what we would see as valid, but I think we’re on the same page on the likelihood of that being an abusive relationship rather than a healthy one. I think you’re right about the wish to provide a real reason for spankings at the DWC gatherings, although I suspect that most couples could find some good reason for it. Since these things were obviously planned in advance, maybe the attendees just saved up the spankings for then. I’m just sorry we found it too late to attend one of the events. Your last point is interesting - I don’t know if these spankings from other wives were delivered in private or in front of the group, but it the latter then you could well be right and they could be even more severe. I note Glenmore’s point about most F/m DD couples tending to be over fifty, and while that may be accurate for participants on this blog, I get the impression that we are far from alone here in having practiced this lifestyle for over a quarter of a century. We were in our thirties (her) and forties (me) when we started this and I suspect something like that would also be true for many of us here. TG
On age, take a look at my note to Glenmore below. In the DWC demographic survey, there was a question related to the age of the respondents at the time they took the survey. The largest group was 51 to 60. But, looking at the overall distribution, a large group seemed take it up at 31 to 40 group, then there was a big leap from 40 to 51. So, I don't doubt that a majority in this group are in their 50s but probably started in their 30s or 40s.
DeleteRegarding the DWC events, I too am sorry we never got the chance to attend one, but I blame myself for that. As a practical matter, I think I found it so late that there probably wasn't a practical chance to attend a gathering. But, I was so paranoid about confidentiality back then, I'm sure I wouldn't have done it. And, I really do regret that. I also really regret not forming a relationship with Jerry and Kay while she was still alive.
"DWC event" - If anyone wanted to take it on, another one could always be organized. Because this blog is now essentially the home of the "DWC", Dan would probably need to make some announcements here (at least to direct those interested to an email address for the coordinator). Just a thought.... --al
DeleteI wouldn't have any problem announcing any events others were setting up. For me personally, I would strongly prefer first getting together with one or two other couples as opposed to trying to pull off a big gathering. For me personally, the bigger the group, the less likely that it would feel disciplinary, and I don't think it would do much for me if it didn't have that vibe.
DeleteOne other option for people to get together -- some have commented that there are spanking gatherings out there but they don't have much DD presence. If national groups like Crimson Moon are now sponsoring events again, people could possibly go to one of those and make an effort to have a DD-oriented sub-gathering at that larger event
Based on 17m opposite sex couples in the UK, aged between 21 and 70. Then based on 25% of them engaging in spanking of some form that is 4.2m couples. Then taking 20% of them being F/M that is just short of 900k. Add in those single men with access to the disciplinarians market we can state with a small degree of confidence that I'm one of a million men getting a smacked bottom between regularly and occasionally. That will do for me presently. Cheers GLM
ReplyDeleteIt is not insubstantial . . .
DeleteI believe there is a demographic element also as most FM discipline and spanking seems to be amongst the over 50 demographic from my observations.
ReplyDeleteThat's always seemed to be the case, though if I understand Alan's study, maybe the age for first exploring generic spanking is being pushed down? Though, I wonder, even if that is true, would the same be true for disciplinary spanking? I do think that it takes a certain amount of maturity and self-awareness to ask for one of these relationships, and I see zero evidence that Gen Z men are maturing and gaining self-awareness earlier. Quite the opposite.
DeleteI took a look again at the DWC demographic study. The vast majority of the respondents identified as Boomers, but you also have to take into account when the survey was done and what generation the founders were. When looking at the identified age distribution, the largest group, by a lot, was 51 to 60. But, it started to ramp substantially among the 31 to 40 group, then took a big leap from 40 to 51.
Another thing that jumped out at me - among the 1200 who responded and identified their gender, 1064 were men and only 129 were women. (7 identified as trans). So, even among a group that identified expressly as a club for women and run by women, only 10% of the people responding to their survey were women.
It's been discussed here and on other forums over the years that most couples who go the DWC route typically begin in their 40's (true in our case). As has been mentioned in a couple of comments, I do think younger adults are much more aware of and open to exploration than the Boomers and GenX - so it would not be surprising to see an increase in younger DWC couples. --al
DeleteGlenmore, I agree that most F/M disciplinary relationships are 50 and older. Many older women are more confident about who they are and what they want. Men in that demographic are often slowing down, not quite so randy, and feel less of a need to prove how macho they are. It seems most guys become more mature as they age, which has certainly proven to be true for me. We know only one other couple that is into F/M DD, and we a candid phone conversation last year. We hope to make the trip to visit with them to share our mutual experience with DD.
ReplyDeleteOne more comment about a spanking weekend party that I attended about 9 years ago in Las Vegas.... It was put on by Shadow Lane, and they rented out 2 entire floors, so there were at least a few hundred people. If a door was open, then it was an open invitation to come in and join the party. There were some workshops and talks, but virtually nothing about DD, let alone F/M DD. Folks were very friendly, and there were spankos from all over the world. The vast majority of the spankings were M/F, but there was some F/M. It would be interesting to know if anybody has been to other spanking events, and if so, are there any DD discussions or demos.
ReplyDeleteEven if there isn't much DD represented at those kinds of gatherings, I wonder how many of those couples explore DD later in life. Jerry has told me that one of his first dates with Aunt Kay was a Shadow Lane party, and I think one reason the DWC became a real thing was that some of the couples knew each other through that larger Spanking Scene.
DeleteAs I've written here before, we have a lady friend our age (60's) who has been into bdsm/kink/spanking since college who told us that often kink-minded women were subs in their 20's, switches in their 30's, and tops in their 40's (and beyond). Our friend is almost exclusively a top in her kink play (and has spanked me a couple of times). As Norton says, many women do gain confidence as they mature. --al
Delete" subs in their 20's, switches in their 30's, and tops in their 40's (and beyond).."
DeleteI agree this is a common pattern for women --but probably not so much so for men --although quite a few male ""doms" discover through experience that they belong on the other side of the paddle. Maturity and experience are the drivers of this But for mature men who come to seek female authority and women who become comfortable ( sometimes very comfortable) with a disciplinarian role, there is a steady loosening of the cultural norms that when younger discouraged the search for authenticity,
Alan
I think people who are into it, like readers of this blog, underestimate how against the grain this fetish / orientation is. Sure spanking is kinky and as a kink, popular. There's a lot of reasons for that: easy, cheap, familiar, can have as much or little an element of dominance as one might want, long associated with teasing so fun for a lot of couples to include in their banter, and I'm sure many others. But real disciplinary spanking as an expression of authority, where there's a potential loss of dignity and a reduction of one person's autonomy with the play element if present de-emphasized is something else again. It doesn't really mesh with a culture that values the individual and their rights. And with F/M that goes so strongly against norms of gender and mature adult behavior that it's even more so the case. Many women have been outspoken about wanting to both have and exercise individual rights and also express their submissive tendencies as they desire and that's received some acceptance. And yet I still think many people who would nod in agreement are really just giving lip service, and would have trouble wrapping their heads around some women choosing to be in disciplinary relationship where rules were imposed and enforced with corporal punishment. But with men it's just in a different league altogether. Sure some people might accept the guy with the high powered career frequenting a dominatrix because that's established in the common imagination, but again that seems more like lip service to me. And that too is different when it's a guy with a quiet personality and a low profile job.
ReplyDeleteIf you're not already familiar with it, you and some of your readers might be interested in reading the Wikipedia article on the charming custom of charivari. Granted we're talking about over a hundred years ago since there was any real significant threat of the community breaking out in a performance of rough music, but it wasn't the distant past and this was a custom that was around for several hundred years.
This is not to say that community norms haven't widened. They have. But this is pretty niche, and I don't think there's all that many people engaging in it, especially since there needs to be an actual woman involved to make it happen. Those who are on FetLife can see how many women there are who are into it. They're out there, for sure, but not very many.
I hadn't heard of charivari before. You're right . . . charming custom.
DeleteYou could be right that we underestimate how against the societal grain this is. Or, at least we forget sometimes. I suspect we do know it, given how how firmly "in the closet" most of us are.
Whether the societal skepticism is in a different league for men who are on the receiving end of DD, I honestly don't know. There is such a stigma (rightly) about abuse of women, I suspect there would be a lot of condemnation of dominant males punishing a woman, even if it was entirely consensual and even if she asked for that kind of relationship. But, you're certainly right that there is such a focus on equality and egalitarianism that *any* relationship in which there is a consciously chosen power differential is probably not going to be widely accepted.
"...FetLife can see how many women there are who are into it. They're out there, for sure, but not very many..."
DeleteThis is probably true but also misleading.. Possibly excepting what may be occurring in gen z,, "natural female tops are probably uncommon ( but not natural female switches). But , within long term committed relationships,women, particularly after being introduced and experienced with exercising authority,come to enjoy and thrive as tops. A relationship makes all the difference for many women. That in my opinion is why some males bemoan the paucity of female tops. they are looking in all the wrong places.
Alan
Dev and I are private about our lifestyle. I thought it might be fun if you’d put a cruise together for those of us in your group. JR
ReplyDeleteCondo for a ski weekend would probably be more my style.
DeleteThere are a lot of lifestyle cruise options where spanking is among a number of featured activities. A Ski condo is a great idea, but I’d think off-season would be a better idea…fewer clothes required, more access to open areas.
Delete-3pops
Good point. Fewer clothes would be a very good thing. Our vacation place is what I would describe as ski condo. But, unfortunately, we share a wall with another unit, and I can sometimes hear things my neighbors are doing, so probably not the best place for a spanking gathering
DeleteAs I wrote in an earlier comment, if someone wanted to take it on, an event could be organized (if there really is enough "real life" interest). --al
DeleteAl, that is an interesting idea. Obviously, privacy would be the main challenge with putting out a list of interested people, or couples. It was wonderful to just be able to just talk openly with another couple about how they practice F/M DD/. What they do is quite different than what we do, but there was no judgement, only mutual interest.
DeleteWe met through this blog, and had a long conversation on the phone. Later, we got together for a meal, but we had a friend with us, so we could not talk openly about DD or spanking. They live pretty far away from us, but we hope to get together later this year.
I wonder if spanking 'clubs' could benefit from the apparent popularity of singers clubs in many neighborhoods these days.
ReplyDeleteWord is they use signs such as an upside down pineapples and garage doors partly open to signal their interedt to other swingers and to invite them.
There are rumors of them having a presence in quite a few neighborhoods these days although it could all be urban legend.
I wonder what the signal/sign for FM spanking enhusiasts might be?
Several years back, we hung out with a couple that was into swinging. (They eventually broke up as a result of the wife conducting an affair with one of the guys they had been swinging with.) The husband told me that I would be shocked at how prevalent swinging clubs and groups were in our area.
DeleteI had heard of the upside down pineapple - but not of the partly open garage door. Interesting - now I'm not going to be able to keep from looking at garage doors. LoL. --al
DeleteThat partly open garage thing is pretty funny, as I've had periods when one of my garage door lifters wasn't working right and would stall when going up or down. I too will now be on the lookout for upside down pineapples
DeleteI have read that the upside down pineapple is common on cruise ships, where swingers will use an upside down pineapple magnet on their cabin door. --al
DeleteApparently Pampas grass in your front garden is another swinger sign.
DeleteWe've had them for years!
That's a new one!
DeleteShould be swingers not singers!
ReplyDeleteIn terms of categories and subcategories, erotic versus disciplinary is an obvious one. One that is not so obvious is part-time versus full-time. For example, in my case, I would enjoy a program where, say, one week out of very 8 or 10 weeks or so, my wife would take charge and I would be subject to disciplinary spankings at her whim. But I know I would not enjoy a program where my wife was in charge half the time or all the time. It’s sort of a yin/yang thing with me. Because I am fairly dominant, I enjoy giving up control some of the time —but certainly not all the time. Having said all that, I also have to acknowledge that my wife isn’t into this at all. She refuses to spank me, but is okay if I see professional dommes.
ReplyDeleteThanks, Alan, for putting this data together - and Dan, for publishing it on the blog - interesting stuff! Following the popularity of "Shades of Gray" (I still recall seeing people reading it all over the place) - I am not surprised that engaging in at least some form of spanking kink (even if mild play) has become almost mainstream. But - also not surprising that DD spanking is just a fraction of that (but still, most likely on the increase to some degree). And no surprise at all that F/M is far more popular than F/M. I would have guessed - just a gut feeling based on forum browsing over the last 30 years or so - the ratio was about 10:1. --al
ReplyDeleteI vividly recall being on a plane one evening when the first Fifty Shades book was at peak popularity. I had noticed a huge display for it at an airport bookstore before boarding. At some point during the flight, I got up to use the bathroom. As I walked down the aisle, I saw at least 5 people reading paper copies of the book, with ages raiding from 20s up to probably low 70s. And, that's just the people whose book choices I could see. Imagine how many more had it on their Kindles or tablets.
DeleteI too would guess that ratio of M/f to F/m DD is probably around 9:1 or 10:1. I'm not sure whether it is that high with erotic spanking, but I'm sure it is tilted very strongly in that direction.
"...no surprise at all that F/M is far more popular than F/M. I would have guessed - just a gut feeling based on forum browsing over the last 30 years or so - the ratio was about 10:1."
DeleteMy data suggests that about one third of adult spanking take place outside the M/F framework ( includes F/M,/F/F, and M/M) . In addition,the ratio of M/F to F/M looks stronger than widely believed--perhaps 5.5 ( M/F) to 1 (F/M). So for every fifty five M/F couples, there would be roughly 10 FM couples
Alan
Alan:
DeleteI have some supporting data for your estimated ratio of F/m vs. M/f DD relationships.
About two years ago I tried to do a survey of as many DD blogs and personal webpages that I could find online. I am up with a ration of approximately 4.5 M/f DD personal sites for every 1 F/m personal site. Good agreement with your numbers above.
Of course, there could be a couple sources of bias:
(1) Women may be less likely to blog / post about they being the "bottom" in such a relationship;
(2) Women are (apparently) naturally more communicative, so may actually blog more freely.
No way to tell if these two factors balance one another (i.e., it's a "wash").
However, if we could develop more accurate estimates of ALL couples in ALL orientations of DD, we could then make better estimates of couples in F/m DD.
The data so far produced including mine is imperfect. But we are starting to get some actual data, rather than the guess-estimates so long the default option. One confounding factor is the apparently not insignificant number of F/M couples who have not adopted a conscious disciplinary context to the relationship. I think of them as a category summed up as "pre-discipline". But there presence underscores the difficulty of locking in F/M DD as it is generally understood on this blog
DeleteAlan
Interesting statistics, I married into a Chinese family. I don’t see any reference to Asian customs and couples/ people into various kinds of kink and spanking. My wife was subjected to spanking and she says it was common in her community. Her mother is the family disciplinarian which she says is also common. She has heard her mother spank herfather but obviously never had a discussion with either of them about this. My wife early in our dating found reasons to introduce her idea of a domestic discipline and with some warning gave me more first ever spanking.
ReplyDeleteI haven't seen much breaking down spanking interest by racial/cultural identity. Maybe Alan has?
DeleteOne data point: In the DWC demographic survey, 93.1% of the respondents identified as white. 1.5% identified as Asian.
Sounds like you are one of the very few among us whose wife initiated the DD aspects of the relationship. I hope you'll provide more details in the future.
For future comments, would you please give yourself a name or initials? It helps track who is saying what and facilitates the ongoing conversation. Thanks!
For some reason, in the last two years, Telegram and X have started to feature a huge number of femdom videos from China. There are just an incredible number of them. Chinese women raise their men very strictly)
Delete"I haven't seen much breaking down spanking interest by racial/cultural identity. Maybe Alan has?"
DeleteIt didn't appear in my analysis. But there probably is data addressing demographic/cultural issues. I do recall coming across allusion to the European experience,characterizing it as much more open to kink in general than the US
Alan
Anonymous: Interesting. My now ex-wife but still goddess, Ma'am and domestic partner is also Chinese, and she for sure is a strong, independent woman with out of this earth willpower. Had she ever wanted kids, she would made for a textbook matriarch. She didn't even mention being spanked growing up though.
DeleteАртом: Care to indicate a website? All Chinese spanking videos I met were M/f, but I still loved them like the Handuty series. Hard but calm spankings to gorgeous and undoubtedly extremely tough ladies. I'd love to see the same thing in inversed polarity.
Dan: I think your racial breakdown numbers are screwed a lot by geography, English-only content and sample size.
IF: Yes, of course. Here are some of the best.
Deletehttps://la.spankbang.com/8q2je/video/chinese+femdom
https://ru.spankbang.com/4a3yq/video/chinese+mistress+gives+hard+punishment
https://ru.spankbang.com/93gce/video/fdhgjkuiy
Why is your ratio not in favor of F/M? Your blog is the largest in DD, and it's f/M. If you look at the largest Russian sex forum (eroen.ru ), you will see that femdom is more popular than BDSM in general.
ReplyDeleteWhile we were dating my wife did mention on several occasions that dhe and her siblings were spanked growing up by their mother. After the wedding she added having heard her mother spank her father, I had never heard of such a thing , she explained that her mom ruled the house and any violation of het rules met with real punishment. A few months after getting married we had some financial trouble due to poor choices on my part. My wife produced a list of my “ offenses “ . She said if i did not stop flagrant spending the marriage was in trouble, much to my surprise she said she would beat my behind if I broke the new rules. I had never been spanked as a child, The first spanking which i agreed to was shocking. I was now in what i learned is DD. On more than one occasion my wife has been spanked by her mom since we got married.
ReplyDelete"On more than one occasion my wife has been spanked by her mom since we got married."
DeleteThat's a very interesting dynamic.
My wife feels she has no choice. I haven’t been present for these, I have seen the after results. I find this in no way erotic.
DeleteWould you like to make a post about how anime is imbued with femdom culture?
ReplyDeleteA lot of modern anime is surprisingly simply an open propaganda of female domination. In probably the most popular modern title "chainsaw Man," the main character Kenji is completely subordinate to his boss, Makima. She literally leads him on a leash and he's like a pet.
In "Akame Kill", Mistress Esdes puts a collar and chain on the main Tatsumi.
You can also recall "prison school" and "young masochists", and many others.
For some reason, the most popular anime very often includes unambiguous hints of femdom.
The ratio of M/F to F/M can only be guessed but perhaps an indicator is the ratio found on the spanking fiction sites such as ‘The Library of Spanking Fiction’. On that basis I would suggest that it is greater than 20:1….TB
ReplyDeleteThis is debatable. If you look at the erotic story website Literotica, you'll find quite the opposite—in the last three years, there have been more femdom stories.
DeleteMaybe, but you're also assuming that Femdom is a proxy for spanking in general and DD spanking in particular. Although there is probably some overlap, I think Femdom is its own thing and not only isn't "a thing" for many who are into DD but is actually a turn-off for many.
DeleteDan, I am completely with you on this. Everything I have read about Fendom is a total turn off to us. F/M DD for us has little to do with Fendom, aside from her being in charge. Also, my assumption is that anime is pretty foreign territory for most of us elderly gents. Being led on a leash, like he is a pet?. Prison school and young masochists? Unlikely anybody reading this blog would be interested in that. Folks into SM or BDSM might like that stuff, but that is not at all what we are about.
ReplyDeleteNorton, although I do think there are overlaps among these kinks, I do think that there probably are more differences than commonalities. I do think some people move from BDSM to DD and vice versa, and I do have some problems drawing lines between some of these kinks, but the distinctions do matter. For example, I can't tell you exactly where the line is between FLR and Femdom, but I do think the line exists. I'm turned on to some extent by female authority, so I clearly have some attraction to an FLR arrangement. Yet, I don't gravitate toward Femdom at all. Where is the line between the two? I really don't know, but I know it exists.
DeleteDan, the distinction between FLR and FemDom, in my eyes, is the latter ventures into areas I personally have no interest in (worship, terms like "slave", denial etc.). However their is cross-over in general language used because FemDom can be an over-riding term that would cover F/M DD and FLR but not the other way around. Just my interpretation. Cheers GLM.
DeletePerhaps more of a spectrum than a line... --al
Delete