Friday, August 4, 2017

The Forum - Vol. 217 - Why DD?

"Be careful what you wish for.  There's always a catch." -- Laure Hale Anderson

Hello all. Welcome back to The Forum.  Our weekly gathering of men and women in, or wanting to be in, Domestic Discipline or Female Led Relationships.  I hope you had a good week.  Mine was not very eventful.  Other than a behavioral issue on Monday that she would have given me a very hard spanking for, were it not for some distractions that got in the way.  But, it still may be coming.

To those who joined in the discussion last week, thanks for contributing.  As I said, some repetition is inevitable, but I myself can never really get enough of "origin" stories when it comes to Domestic Discipline.  There are just so many variations on how people get into these relationship, it is endlessly fascinating to me.  But, then, I am kind of voyeuristic by nature.  One reason I like the participatory nature of doing this blog is I get to hear so many interesting stories.  It also tests my assumptions.  When I first started the blog, I definitely had some pre-conceived notions about how and why people get into those relationships.  I think in general some of those notions were grounded in reality, but only with respect to some segment of the DD community.  It's been an awakening experience to hear from so many people about what led them into this fairly unique lifestyle.  And, contrary to the views of some of our regular commenters, I do still believe these relationships are fairly uncommon.  Oh, I know, lots of couples are into spanking, but that is not the same thing as being into Domestic Discipline.  I have no way of knowing for sure, but I really don't think there are all that many people who are really into spanking as a true disciplinary tool.  Hell, even in the community of people who visit and comment on this blog, only some portion (and there are weeks it seems to be a small portion) are focused primarily on the disciplinary aspects of a spanking relationship as opposed to the "funishment" or erotic interest. 

Anyway, last week's topic was about how people first got into Domestic Discipline.  This week, let's talk about the "why."  What was it that made you ask for this?  And, most of you did ask for it.  While in fictional DD stories it is usually the wife who initiates it, in the "real world," the opposite seems to be true.  Far more often, it is the man who asks to be spanked for his transgressions that the wife who decides to impose that on him.

When you think about it, that really does seem pretty odd, right?  Most of us don't like pain.  Most of us also usually like getting our own way.  So, why is it that at some point in our lives, many of us end up asking our wives to spank us, and to do so very long and hard such that it is a real punishment?  And, why do some of us want those spanking to be part of turning over control of parts of our life to someone else?  Even those whose relationships are focused on Domestic Discipline without many of the "Female Led" elements are still handing over some fairly significant amount of power and giving up some degree of autonomy, since you are empowering her to punish you in an attempt to change your behavior.  At least where those behaviors are concerned, you have ceded control and done so knowing the consequences may be really, truly painful.

So, why do we want this and what motivations or desires does it meet?  What itch does it scratch?  Take a look at the poll near the top of the blog.  It is a variation on others I have posted.   It tries to get at this issue of what motivates us to not only take, but often initiate, a lifestyle in which we often have to submit ourselves to painful and humbling punishments?

For myself, despite being in one of these relationships for several years, and being a fairly self-aware person (at least I like to think so), I don't have a solid answer.  As I recounted last week, I was not a "spanko" in my younger years.  I had never once thought about adult spankings until well into my '30s.  Even when we started playing with erotic spanking, it wasn't wasn't all that interesting to me, let alone the kind of compelling fetish it clearly is to some.  Yet, when I stumbled on a website devoted to Domestic Discipline, it just hit me like the proverbial ton of bricks. I literally couldn't sleep the night after I found it, and not much for a few days after that.  Something about it just grabbed me.  Looking back and trying to recall what the primary driver was, I know part of it was related to accountability and boundaries.  The stories of wives meting out punishment for real offenses were compelling, and it had something to do with being held truly accountable.  Which as I've said before is really an odd thing for me to be attracted to, because I am generally so anti-authoritarian.  But, part of me clearly wants it, even if I rebel against it.  But, I'm not sure that really gets at the heart of it either.  The stories that really got to me at my core all involved being brought to tears by a spanking.  But, when I say "got to me," I don't mean erotically.  At least not in any simplistic way. Frankly, those stories scared the shit out of me, but I also found them morbidly fascinating.  To say the prospect of being brought to tears by a spanking from my wife gave me "butterflies" is such an understatement.  It almost made me want to throw up -- the feeling was that powerful.  Yet, I undeniably wanted it. 

So, for me, there seem to be a lot of motivations at play.  I want to be held accountable. I crave imposed boundaries, even if in every aspect of my life I push against them.  I want the catharsis, and maybe even the embarrassment, of being brought to tears by my wife.  Part of me craves being lectured and treated with a very maternal strictness.  All of that is in there somewhere, and I have no idea why none of it came out until pretty late in life.  And, my decade-long interest in this lifestyles is not all emotionally motivated.  Part of it is just recognizing that I don't always have the willpower to behave in ways that help me be successful or that help me avoid the natural consequences of bad behavior.  So, the prospect of getting spanked can help with that. 

So, what motivated you to seek this out?  Or, if you are one of the few disciplined husbands on whom the lifestyle was imposed, or if you are a disciplinary wife who imposed it, what was the primary driver for that happening?  For you personally, what needs did you think the DD or FLR lifestyle would serve?

I hope you all have a great week.

24 comments:

  1. I have never been that analytical. So my answer to "why?" really is because I wanted to and I felt the need for it and it was exciting.

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  2. I feel the need to pay for past sins and cleanse my soul, must be the Catholic upbringing. I'm in control so much, and so headstrong this seem like a way to give my wife a way to keep me in check, and bring some balance to our lives.

    John

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    1. I meant to mention something like that in the post but forgot. I wasn't raised a Catholic, but same general culture just in a Protestant denomination. Whether as a result of that or of other forces, I do think I have a greater need than some for penance, and I suspect that many men who are into DD are just harder on themselves than others. I tend to see my mistakes as moral failings. I have other friends who regularly engage in the same bad behavior I do, yet their conscience is totally clear.

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  3. I'll give the shorter answer first - my wife says it's because I'm bored.

    But to me, there's much more than that. Yes, for us it's sexual. It's new and different. It's intense attention from her. It's another reason to get naked. It's exciting to share a 'kinky' secret. It's a physical challenge. It's a craving to submit to her authority. It's an exercise in trust between us. It's a way to embrace the chaos of the world. And, as mentioned above, it's a dramatic way to demonstrate my devotion to her. (Take that! Regular loser husbands.)

    I do think this is all something that emerges in (some) middle-aged married men. No doubt there are biochemical and psychological reasons. I tell my wife she's lucky I've had such an inexpensive midlife crisis - she only has to order me around a little, tell me when I can and can't come, and spank me from time to time!
    CrimsonKing

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    1. I hear you on the inexpensive mid-life crisis, though I have spent a fairly obscene amount on custom paddles. But, still way cheaper than second wives and new Corvettes.

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  4. Short but sweet. Why? Because I'm a spanko who now knows he likes it both ways. What I get out of being spanked is however a different question with a longer answer I'm still working on. Cheers GLM.

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  5. I had a DD relationship with my wife for about 6 months before realizing that it was just too much for her to take emotionally. I decided I couldn't ask her to do that for me anymore when the emotional cost/benefit was so lopsided in my favor. Later I paid a graduating psychology student to be my disciplinarian and it succeeded beyond my wildest expectations at helping me stay focused on tasks that are important to me and get them completed. (My wife is aware and permits it recognizing my hunger and the way we're mismatched here.) I have a spanking fetish no doubt, but I view the disciplinary model as the most purposeful expression of that fascination - which ironically is detached from sexual gratification. Loving maternal discipline feels like home -- the disciplinarian has my best interests at heart and is there to hold me accountable and make course corrections whenever necessary. I read and endorse most of the psychological basis for DD that's described in this blog. < https://toy4her.wordpress.com/2013/01/01/better-spouses-welcome-to-better-spouses/ >

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    1. Hi ST. That's really interesting that you were able to hire a student to hold you accountable, and it worked out.

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    2. Also, I have read that blog before, and there is a lot of thought-provoking stuff there. I especially love this quote, which addresses whether it is "fair" for a woman to spank for punishment:

      "I understand those of you who think it shouldn’t be necessary to punish your husband. It might be better (though less fun) if husbands didn’t need to be punished or threatened with punishement to behave wonderfully. That might be nice, but it won’t happen. Men don’t truly understand a thing until they have felt it.

      The thing to remember is that most wives attempt to punish their husbands somewhat regularly but in less effective, indirect and passive/aggresive ways. Those ways do not usually work well because the husband usually doesn’t understand what is happening and if he does, he resents being manipulated in such weak and cowardly ways. Men respect strength. The woman who punishes her husband in a forthright manner wins his respect and adoration. A woman who attempts to punish her husband in weak and indirect ways earns his disregard and even contempt."

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    3. ST,

      I think we would all like to hear more about the dynamics between you and the graduate student. How did you approach her? What was her initial reaction? Has she met your wife? And anything else you care to contribute.

      Carl H

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    4. To Carl and other interested readers,
      I met R though the internet, and it was serendipitous. There was an interesting article in the Wall St Journal about “hugging consultants” that were popping up, where you paid someone to come and hug you (platonically) for an hour. That was strange enough for me to check it out on a whim, and wouldn't you know, one of the hugging services has a sister website where more fetish oriented services are offered (still fairly tame, like foot fetish, and yes, spanking). At the time I was traveling for business on a multi-year project, and had already experienced my first session with a professional disciplinarian. That session was about 50 minutes talking and 10 minutes of discipline, but it was simply amazing to talk to someone who “got me” and listened and counseled without making judgments.

      Anyway, I started thinking about things that I wanted help with, and the main thing that came to mind was my honey-do list around the house that had been neglected for a long time because I was always out of town on business. R has a kinky background and an amazing profile on Fetlife, but she was puzzled by my interest in ‘maternal domestic discipline.’ So I invited her to look in on another session that I had with a professional. She did, and afterward we outlined a framework for moving forward. I was very interested in her psychology background, and delighted by the bargain that I was getting in both an analyst and a disciplinarian (R is now in her 2nd year of grad school, and seeing clients professionally).

      So I met her first as a disciplinarian, but our sessions were always split about 50/50 between counseling and discipline. I’ve wanted my wife to meet all of my significant spanking partners (more than just a date or two), just so she’d see them as people and not imagine something much crazier than was actually happening. During one of her visits we all got together for dinner and they were cordial with each other. It helped that they have crafting in common – they both enjoy making things with their hands.

      I’ll share more about our sessions and accomplishments if there’s continued interest.

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  6. As an adult I discovered that I could do almost anything I wanted and I often did (after a fairly restrictive upbringing). I have had the spanking 'itch' since forever, all fantasy once I left school. I have been a challenging partner, given my attitude to authority and any restrictions. I never linked the spanking itch with my wife until we played at it, almost by mistake, one night after many wines. That night opened my eyes in many ways and I wrote my thoughts to a very surprised wife, and we discussed and experimented. The DWC site provided much inspiration and confidence, as did the 'Hesitant Mistress'.

    None of which explains the 'why'? I think it is a mix of the long-standing interest - spanking is very close to erotic for me (although not the real ones I now get!). It is very intimate. I am totalling 'in the moment' during each session - ultimate 'mindfulness'? It gives me structured boundaries & rules to adhere to which makes me less random, more respectful and better behaved. I like to anticipation, even though it is scary, I enjoy the after burn, once the immediate sting has calmed. I like that we have this special 'thing' between us. I love that slightly satisfied look she has after, the fact that I have agreed to submit & never argue, once she has decided I need the strap is a real equaliser between us. TB

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    1. Thanks, TB. "Ultimate mindfulness" -- Love it!

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  7. To answer a bit differently from my past responses, here's a bit of an extreme analogy (but I like extreme analogies). I have always been fascinated with weapons of all kinds......from swords to guns. I probably had the best plastic sword/cap gun collection on my block as a kid. Now I have real ones.

    On one level, I just like the aesthetic and idea of weapons. I can hang them on a wall and just enjoy looking at them. I can research them and read about them. I have also fenced and shot for sport and enjoyed both immensely. AND.....if the need arose, and someone came in and attacked my family, I could use these weapons as the deadly tools they were first intended to be.

    Spanking is like that for me. I just like them on a visceral level. I like looking at them and reading and writing about them. I can also enjoy playing with them. And when the need arises, I can benefit from the purpose for which they were first intended.

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  8. Dan
    I am not sure why spanking works of us. It however does! The tears for me come seldom, if ever, from the pain of the belt, paddle or cane. The emotion that brings me to tears is when I allow myself to think for a second beyond myself and how Anna has chosen to administer these sessions in an effort to keep me in line and for the sake of our marriage and our boys.
    Is there an erotic element I think there is and I think we who are only into DD hesitate to admit that. I do want it to be private. Between Anna and I. It is the thought that often my bad behavior has put our family and our marriage in jeopardy that bring me to tears.
    Later in bed her hug, as we drift off to sleep, is my absolution. That often has made me teary if I were honest.
    peter

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    1. Hi Peter. I agree there is some reluctance for the DD-oriented to admit there is an erotic element. I'm sure for most of us there is.

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  9. As one of the few women contributors to Dan's blog I'd like to provide readers with some views from our side of the paddle. As Dan points out perhaps it is too much to ask a group of men to address other emotional reasons for why they entered a DD relationship other then because they enjoy it. So here goes some emotional reasons. Apologies again for length. I can't seem to resist getting deep.
    Part 1: For me the whole DD lifestyle involves a multitude of powerful emotions for both of us; deep love, respect, fear, apprehension, power, submission, dominance, possible anger, concern for the other, sensitivity, compassion and possible resentment. Both of us are life-long spankos although not aware of it when we met but it did not take long for us to be spanking for erotic fun with mind blowing follow up sex. As we lived our mainly vanilla style life the reality of being married to a strong minded man began to test our marriage. Men, like my husband, and I suspect like many contributors to this blog, have many great qualities but subtlety, empathy and consideration are not high on their list. When my man wanted to get something done he plunged right in with no discussion or input from me. If I tried to contribute with suggestions he would either ignore me or respond with an abrupt or patronizing comment. He had no idea of the negative emotions he created in my life. I thought about him, his attitude and how he (and other men) are brought up in society. As a girl I used to watch boys challenging each other and authority to prove their budding manliness. They would push the boundaries until they got into fights, got into trouble at school and at home almost demanding to be given some correction. When boys were punished with corporal punishment I noticed how subdued and better behaved they became with no apparent resentment or anger. This basic behavior of boys seemed to be necessary for them to prepare them for their adult life and work – it seemed to give them a sense of purpose, a determination and a pride in themselves. They seemed to need to be regarded as tough and strong which in a way was not a bad thing but I realized was mainly an image. When I watched a boy after they had been put in place by a girl or after they had been punished I saw a vulnerability and sensitivity that I found appealing and sensual. I would want to hug any boy who was reduced to tears – it was a strong emotion and quite overwhelming for me. Normally boys and young men are encouraged not to show their feelings and this concealment meant that many of men’s more appealing (for me) characteristics never surfaced in public. I believed that the reason why men acted out, became stubborn or arrogant was often an attempt to hide their inner emotions and weakness. As I considered how I could improve my marriage I remembered that old joke “A newly married women hopes to change her man, a man hopes she’ll never change”. I realized that Tim had no idea how he was hurting me and I made the decision that he needed to be taught a lesson in an attempt to change him. At that time we were enjoying playing out spanking scenes as a prelude to sex so I decided to use a scene where I would play the role (which was not really a role) of an offended wife who informs her misbehaving husband that he was to be taught a severe lesson.

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    1. Hi Tina I had not heard that joke or adage, though it probably fits a lot of new couples.

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  10. Part 2: As I worked out the plan I suffered powerful conflicting emotions. I worried that I may actually hurt him if I strapped him hard, I wondered how he would react - would his pride allow him to accept the submission, would he resent me - but I also felt excited and enjoyed an amazing sexual thrill. That evening I tied my hubby to the bed naked over a pile of pillows and informed him that I was going to whip him hard, first with a strap and then with a cane. He had no idea that I was serious. I began the strapping and soon had him writhing and yelping. He cried out and said it’s enough but I continued and lectured him about his real faults as I caned him. Finally I tossed the cane aside and stroked his badly welted bottom, caressed his back and hugged him. After releasing him I sat on the bed hugging him and running my hands through his hair. I let him know that the punishment was for real and explained why. I told him that I wanted to change his attitude and listed all the ways he had upset me. He became quite emotional as he began to realize how his actions had caused me such distress. I hugged him tightly and told him I loved him and that I would never truly hurt him but that his behavior had to change and I would seriously whip him if he offended me in the future. He had tears in his eyes – not from the pain of the beating but from my pain suffered by his actions. He hugged me and although he said he would find it difficult to submit to my authority he said that he was prepared to accept the situation providing I did not reject him or feel he was a lesser man for being submissive. Emotionally I was torn; it was a weird contradiction for me to be inflicting pain on the man I loved to make him a better person while at the same time experiencing a powerful orgasm while caning him. Now I needed to analyze my own feelings to ensure I was not becoming sadistic. As time went on I beat him hard with true disciplinary whippings when he offended me – according to our list of rules – but our marriage became so much closer and loving. We touched each other as we passed and gave impromptu hugs. Sex was magnificent and varied. It was if we had woken a teenage loving relationship. This for me was nirvana and all I had to do to ensure it lasted was to administer the occasional harsh beating. Tim became more aware of my needs and began introducing small gestures of his love. Flowers one night, preparing meals, back rubs, massages – life could not be better. He was so adorably vulnerable when he was naked and I was dressed and when I instructed him to take a position for his punishment I experienced such a strong adrenaline rush of power and intense love. As I look at his naked bottom waiting for my lash I realize how much I adore and respect this man for allowing me such a privilege to improve him as a man. With such total exposure and vulnerability there is nothing that we would ever keep from each other. And that my friends is why I do it.

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    1. Thanks, Tina. And you are right that female participation is way down. Marisa seems to have disappeared, and other than you Anna and Merry are the only regulars, and Holly pops up every once in awhile. I really wish there was a way to get more women participating, but after four years, maybe this is as good as it gets.

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  11. Our DD started with spanking games and progressed to DD. Why? Because I think we were both looking for something extra than just playing games.
    I’ve analysed this to death in my head and I’m the one who initiated it – but Mistress is the one who fully embraced it. I was already very submissive sexually and we had played out the games of me being dominated and punished.
    But it was just games and once I’d read about DD and female led relationships on line I was excited to realised there would be a way to combine my ‘need’ to be punished (I’d had a fascination with CP since school) and living in a relationship where I had to conform to my partner’s wishes rather then do as I pleased.
    I was married before I met Mistress and while the marriage failed through issues on both sides, one of my ex-wife’s complaints about me was that I was lazy, didn’t do the chores and left everything to her to do in the house.
    So one thing in my new relationship that worried me was what would happen if - or should I say when, because it was inevitable - I should slip back into my old way.
    Mistress had come out of a miserable relationship where her confidence had taken a battering so was unsure if she could assume a more dominant role she knew nothing about – she’d never heard of CP games until I introduced her to them. Having said that, I’d spotted from the outside that she had a rather ‘bossy’ streak……
    So Mistress and I discussed DD in depth, and I explained my fears of slipping back into old ways. Mistress candidly pointed out that she had already seen traits in my behaviour that annoyed her and she was only too keen to exploit the rules of DD to ensure they didn’t become an issue.
    She had already spotted that I liked to do things my way, that I argued with her decisions, and that I didn’t show her enough respect. And she said she didn’t need telling that I had a lazy streak. She admitted the idea of her having more of an authoritarian appealed to her.
    So we entered into a DD regime. Both of us agreed it brought a really exciting, emotional edge to the relationship. It definitely heighted our respect and love for each other – I truly believe it brought us much closer. We also found the punishments helped clear the air, relieve stress.
    There was nothing sexual about it though. Erotic maybe, corporal punishment between two partners is a very intimate experience - but we both treated it seriously. She applied the rules quick vigorously and the punishments were very real.
    Too real, as I’ve said before. I went through a period of not being able to cope with DD and real life and refused to be beaten once too often so Mistress called time on our DD until I sort myself out. I’ve gone through all this before, suffice to say, I still believe we’re better with DD than without it.
    Our ‘vanilla’ relationship is fantastic but without DD it feels like anything goes and I think we both hanker for the more ‘regimental’ structured approached that we had. To get back there isn’t as simple as it sounds because it’s not just me who has to get my head around what’s needed. Thanks to my actions, Mistress’ confidence has been knocked and she’ll not assume the role she played before until she’s 100% certain I’ll live up to mine!

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  12. Been gone on vacation for six weeks. Read Tina's description of her husbands behavior, and it was so consistent with my own many years ago. After retiring and living 24/7 with my wife (after both of us leading almost separate lives because of my work activities running a business)my behaviors were creating serious marital problems with arguing, fighting and threats of divorce, both ways. I found the Spencer Spanking Plan, exposed it to my wife, and she was in favor of it, provided it applied to just me. I agreed because she was right, I, not her, needed to correct some bad behaviors and habits. So the WHY I still get spanked occasionally after almost 16 years in DD, but it has resuscitated a marriage on the brink of divorce. Early on I got spanked a lot, but have corrected most bad habits and behaviors and both of us are happy with our marriage now. Actually, before our vacation I hadn't been spanked for almost seven months, and thought maybe DD was no longer necessary, but on a cruise playing bridge I publicly criticized my wife, and paid a stiff price when we got back home. She did not forget and I guess we are now DD lifers.

    Fred

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    1. Hey Fred. Good to hear from you. Thought we might have lost you.

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