Saturday, February 18, 2017

The Forum - Vol. 194 - Use Your Words

A lot of people are afraid to say what they want. That’s why they don’t get what they want. -
Madonna


Hello all.  Welcome back to The Forum.  Our weekly gathering of men and women who are, or would like to be, in a Domestic Discipline or Female Led relationship.  I hope you all had a great week.

I apologize for the delay in posting.  Darren responded that he hoped it resulted from being grounded from the internet after a hard disciplinary spanking.  Unfortunately, no.  I was just busy with something else.  Though, I do have a very bruised bottom but, interestingly, not from a spanking.  I used to worry that at some point I would go to a doctor with bruising from a spanking and wouldn't be believed if I lied and said I slipped and fell.  Because how could slipping and falling on your butt generate enough force to result in real bruising?  Well, I can now confirm that it can.  I had such a fall a few days ago, and I am now sporting a very angry bruise on one cheek.  And those threats from your wife to the effect of "You won't be able to sit for a week . . ."  -- I can confirm that a bruised bottom definitely can make sitting very uncomfortable.  My only comfort is I did have a hard spanking coming, but it may have to wait a few days until some of the current tenderness is gone.  Or not.

This week's topic is kind of related to that "You won't be able to sit for a week . . ." threat, though I will take a bit of a meandering trip to explain it.  A few weeks ago, my wife and I had a disagreement that resulted in her getting very angry and storming out of the room.  Those things happen, but it is a problem in the context of our marriage because we have agreed that when she is angry with me, she has the tools to take control and bring the argument to a screeching halt in a very concrete way.  We have been at this for over a decade, and yet vocalizing her unhappiness and saying exactly what she wants and expects is still a challenge for her sometimes.  I'm sure years of socialization are part of the problem, and there is that seemingly ever present female concern that straight talk will come off as bitchy.

It was shortly after this fight that Kathy over at http://femdom101.blogspot.com began a series of posts regarding the Netflix series "The Crown."  I decided to give it a try and ended up having a binge watching weekend.  I have absolutely no doubt that the director or someone on the writing staff have an FLR thing going on.  It is, in fact, a very interesting multi-part exploration of two people, Queen Elizabeth and her husband Phillip, learning to command and to submit respectively when neither came naturally to those roles.  Elizabeth must learn to lead after her father dies, and  unlike many future monarchs she had not been prepared for that from an early age because she was kind of an accidental ruler.  Her father became king only after her uncle Edward VIII (portrayed as a fairly effeminate and servile husband to a dominant wife) abdicated the throne, and she became monarch at a young age after her father died of cancer.  Her husband Phillip, a prince in his own right, is a strong and proud man who finds himself unexpectedly playing the role of consort to the newly minted Queen.  The dynamic between Elizabeth and Phillip is also fascinating, culminating in the issue of whether he must kneel at her coronation.  He asks to be released from that obligation, and she refuses.  He becomes very angry and proclaims that he wants to be married to his wife, not to a queen. She replies that she is both wife and Queen and that a strong man should be able to kneel to both.

It also is a study in learning to use power, and specifically that leadership skills can be taught and learned, though perhaps in small, incremental steps.  Some of the most intriguing segments are the exchanges between Elizabeth and Winston Churchill.  There is very explicit mentoring going on with respect to making decisions, and the necessity of really making and owning them.  While he gives her advice, he then presses her to both make the actual decision and to vocalize it.  He realizes and subtly impresses on her the necessity of learning to take ownership of her own power.

That is what this week's topic is about. Vocalizing. Commanding.  Expressing what she wants.  There is another scene in The Crown related to this theme that has an even more explicit FLR reference.  Churchill's health is failing and he suffers from two strokes, but he and certain cabinet ministers try to hide it from Elizabeth.  When she learns of their deception, she discusses it with her new tutor, a wizened professor who advises her that she must assert her authority and recommends bringing them in for "a good dressing down." She asks why men of such power and distinction would stand for it, and her tutor observes, "Because they're English, male and upper-class.  A good dressing down from nanny is what they want most in life."  She proceeds to bring them in and gives them just such a dressing down.  After it is over, she encounters her husband who observes that she looks "taller." He then proceeds to seduce her, plainly turned on by her newly acquired authoritative, regal bearing.

That is the long-winded introduction to this week's topic, which is about that "dressing down." Lecturing.  Vocalizing both her expectations and her dissatisfaction when those are not met.

This is something I really love about the artwork from the owner of the RedRump blog: http://redrump.blogspot.com.  While there is some lighthearted stuff with women having fun administering their butt blisterings, a majority of the drawings portray the woman as pissed off and letting it show. These are women who plainly are not to be trifled with, and when they are angry they express it.  With words.  With facial expressions. Their entire demeanor is congruent with their status as Head of the relationship, and when discipline is to be meted out their demeanor and words are part and parcel of the punishment process, designed to break down the ego of the offender as surely as the spanking itself.  It is both an expression of authority and a warning about what is about to happen.


Is strong lecturing and chastisement part of your DD and FLR relationship? Do you want it to be?  I have come to appreciate the extent to which the passion and authority with which I am directed and controlled is almost more important to the whole experience than the spanking itself.  It's not just about taking me to the woodshed.  It is about making me go there.  Telling me that it is going to happen and why.  Vocalizing what she is angry about and what she is going to do to me as a result of that anger.  Emphasizing through her words, her expression and her demeanor that it is absolutely inevitable that I am going to be punished. That I have no choice in the matter and, yes, that I very much should be afraid of it and how much it is going to hurt.  And, I do want her to express her anger.  In fact, just as Churchill would advise Elizabeth but then make her vocalize it as her own decision, even if I have advised something I want and need on the DD front, I need her to vocalize it to me as her order.  In short, I want her to use her words, and to use them to dominate, control and chastise me.

Do you share those desires?  If lecturing and verbal chastisement are part of your DD relationship, give us a few examples.  A while back we did a topic on spanking-related phrases, which I put below  for reference and for our female readers to consider working into their disciplinary vocabulary. But, please go beyond that and tell us about times when lecturing has been used to good effect in your relationship.

_______

Now.

I'll give you something to cry about.

Understood?

Did you hear what I said?

Not as sorry as you are going to be.

We will discuss this later.

Bring me the paddle.

I'm not going to stop until you are crying. 

I am going to blister your behind.

I am going to set your bottom on fire.

You are going to be much sorrier.

I bet you will be good - after I finish blistering your behind.

I sure hope you don't do it again. God help you if you do.

Stop? (with increduality) Oh no, dear, we're just getting started.

You really should be ashamed that I'm having to paddle your behind like this - will you ever grow up?

Of course it hurts - you should have remembered that before misbehaving again.

There are no limits on my authority to spank you, anytime, anyplace for any reason –got that?

You have a naughty little boy inside you and when he comes out it’s my job to teach him how to behave.

You are going to be severely punished.

Lose it. (referring to a pre-spanking erection)

Do you want me to take you upstairs and pull your pants down?

One more word and I will ...

You are going to get such a sore bottom when we get home.

You just carry on with that attitude, just carry on...

Really?  Really?

You're too big for your britches, and those britches are coming down.

Assume the position.

I promise this is going to be an ass blistering that you won't soon forget.

You'll be lucky if you can sit down for the next week.

Go cut me a switch.

Of course it hurts. It is supposed to hurt.

Our company should be here soon, dear. Time to bring me the paddle so we can make sure you remember to behave.

________

I hope you all have a great week. As always, if you're new to this Forum, please take a moment to stop by the Guestbook (tab above) and tell us a little about your DD or FLR relationship or aspirations.


30 comments:

  1. I will give lectures and speak in a stern tone of voice when I am angry at behavior, whether it is Shilo or Stitch. However, punishment or discipline is reserved for only after my anger has dissipated. This might mean that Shilo goes into the corner for 90 minutes singing "Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Bat" or Stitch is given something to do until I calm down. I like to be in control of myself, and anger tends to only make things harder on me.

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    1. Hi Merry. "Never spank in anger" probably is good advice, particularly for anyone new to these relationships. I know it's not consistent with what I wrote in the post, but the post is about what I feel compelled by, not necessarily what I think would be good practice. Though, your practice of enforcing corner time to give yourself time to calm down seems like a good balance. He ends up doubly punished, but doing something over the top while angry becomes less of a risk.

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  2. Some degree of "lecturing" is indeed part of the procedure that both N. and J. always follow(ed). Some of it comes before the 'session' (whether as a warning, or -more commonly- as an announcement of what I can expect). Some are used as a comment while the discipline is being administered... and some when the punishment is over, as I kneel at her feet to kiss her hand and thank her - before (often enough) being assigned some 'corner time'... bare-bottomed, of course!

    L.

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    1. Those announcements of what I can expect tend to really get my attention.

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  3. Well my friend , this week you hit it out of the park ! Every word you wrote could've been mine as I feel exactly the same. When Dev says " you are getting a spanking " my butterflies immediately begin. I don't when she's going to do it so I'm constantly on edge. When the time finally arrives , she is in a no nonsense discilpline mode. She always lectures first as to why I'm getting spanked. Once the paddling begins she pauses periodically and says " am I getting through to you "? We don't have a woodshed per say , but we do have small shed at the back of our property where I have the lawn tractor and other items. She will on occassion refer to it as a " woodshed ". We have utilized this on two very memorable occasions. All she has to do is say " do you want me to take you out to the woodshed again " ? This instantly shuts me down. She has also said while we were out " you're not too big for me to take you over my knee ". All very effective.

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    1. If we buy another house, I'm sure the realtor will be wondering why my wife's list of required features includes a toolshed on the property. :-)

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  4. This happened just yesterday, though the spanking has yet to be administered.Instead, she just went into explicit detail over what was bothering her and the price I would pay for it. I'm very argumentative so these lectures are very difficult for me............but an important aspect of DD in establishing Rosa's genuine authority to make these disciplinary decisions even when I don't like them.

    As for 'catch phrases'? Yes she does those too, but she seems to only use them AFTER she has expressed the serious side of the situation and uses the phrases to sort of tease me about what is going to happen, or has happened.

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    1. I get it. Lecturing is hard to take specifically because it is very hard for me not to fire back. It's just who I am, so having to absorb it and answer only with "Yes Ma'am" is hard.

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    2. This seems to be another example of men who share a lot about the F/M orientation but differ a lot too. I find lecture/scolding very effective in promoting the effectiveness of a spanking. But I don't find it hard " not to fire back" Just to be clear I would fire back in ordinary life but once she has brought me to an obedient state ( long corner time pre-spanking is one of her methods)I find it easy to give her the "yes ma'am" she expects as well as to otherwise comply. I am almost never in that pre-spanking state until she has taken me into obedience with a series of rituals we have worked out over the years. So when the scolding really starts my resistance is over. Also the scolding I find most effective is when she scolds during the spanking almost beating the message into my bum. When she limits the scolding to a single phrase or short sentence like “you never say no to me, never, never, never. I remember it days or weeks after the spanking is over.
      Alan

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    3. I can see how the scolding during the spanking could be very effective at driving home the message. I can also see the advantage in the pre-spanking rituals. In our own relationship, however, we're kind of moving in the opposite direction. We both are so busy and have so many responsibilities, making every spanking a production seems to make them less likely to happen. It becomes just one more big task that she has to find time for during an already busy day. So, we are talking about simplifying things down to a quick report, gather paddle from its hiding place, bend over, some number of swats she thinks is appropriate, move on to the next thing on the to-do list. Probably not ideal, but we are still in that phase where life is complicated and it's hard to fit everything in to a normal day.

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    4. Dan
      Here I am to stir the pot. I speak only for myself, but i do believe it is right. Time must be made for punishment. Time must be made for you to absorb just how much you have hurt her and yourself. When Peter says he is sorry and will try to do better, I need to feel he means it. I dont want to move on from a punishment session to cleaning the garage or taking the kids to practice. If it is important you will find the time. One of the reasons I never want sex after punishment is I want that feeling or repentance to sink in and for Peter to wallow in it a times.
      anna

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    5. Hi Anna,

      I don't disagree in principle, but there are trade-offs. Particularly for the younger couples just starting out in this lifestyle, there are often two demanding jobs, shuttling kids, and doing work at the kitchen table from after dinner until bed time. That has definitely been my life for the better part of our disciplinary relationship. And, really isn't about me finding time for it, but her finding time without it cutting into other things that are also important. Like sleep. For us, many punishment sessions are going to happen at the very end of the day, because that is the only time available. But, the issue for us isn't so much the after-spanking "sink in" time, it's the advance preparation and the whole ritual. I absolutely agree that all of that before and after activity is important, but in the real world that many families are living in, the more ritual and planning involved, the less likely the session will happen at all. That lack of consistency can be a real problem, and it's one that we have decided really has to trump everything else for awhile. So, while we both still very much want all the ritual, for now our focus is on immediate attention to addressing each offense, and in order to be immediate, some of the ritual may have to fall by the wayside for awhile.

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    6. Hello Dan,
      Anna is spot on about the need to make time for discipline. I am not averse to a sort sharp on the spot spanking for certain behavior. But those "shorties" need to be balanced against discipline that is more drawn out and focused.Ultimately adult discipline is communication and one cannot have much of a conversation in five or so minutes. Any couple aspiring to a DD must make it and punishment a priority. It just won't work if it isn't a priority. It would be easy for me and is sometimes tempting to skip a spanking or overlook the offense. But I know that every time I do that all my work and efforts are at risk of being lost. Effective discipline takes time and there are no short cuts I am aware of.
      Marissa

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    7. Hi Marisa,

      I don't disagree with your point or Anna's, but at least in my own relationship there have been constant practical interferences (most related to kids, but also job and social conflicts) that get in the way of the consistency you are advocating. And, I agree 100% that consistency is the primary goal. In fact, when I look at the areas in which we haven't made much progress, it seems to have much more to do with lack of certainty (I will definitely get spanked) and immediacy (it will happen pretty soon after the offense) than severity. She spanks plenty hard, but there are often times that despite her best intentions, it doesn't happen immediately, and the inevitable delays often stretch into it not happening at all. Anna and Peter solved the problems via the kids staying overnight with family once a week, but that may not work for everyone. In an ideal world, I agree that a long session with the full ritual of scolding, corner time, etc. is preferable. But, for me personally, I think consistency and certainty are the most important factors, and if sacrificing some of the ritual means there is less chance of me avoiding it altogether, that may work better w/r/t bringing about real change. Especially given that we are trying to build in some rigor in other areas, including daily reporting on a small set of goals we have agreed I need to focus on. The idea is that I don't meet those daily behavior goals, a spanking happens that night. And for that level of consistency, we need to be able to do things within whatever free time presents itself.

      This ties back into some of the discussions we've had here about degrees of openness. My wife does not feel this way, but I really do wish we had been more open with our kids about the DD side of our relationship, as I think consistency would have been less of a challenge had we been less concerned about others (kids included) finding out.

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    8. I can relate to what Dan has said. "Real Life getting in the way" has been the single largest obstacle to our DD lifestyle being able to actually get put into practice. Either there is/are others home....I'm away at work...she's out doing something....ect ect. It isn't so much that we haven't decided to make it a priority and and try to find time....it's just so little time alone. I've often wondered if the data from the DWC survey that shows the typical age of when married couples start is in fact later in life (in their 50s)....happens to coencide with couples becoming empty nesters.

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  5. The only time Merry seems to lecture me is WHILE she is beating my bottom, at which time she tells me what this particular punishment is for, if in fact there is any 'real' reason for it.

    Primary catch phrases currently in use:

    Go to the bedroom.
    Get your clothes off.
    Stand in the corner and wait for me.
    Get on the bed, FDAU.

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    1. I had to look up "FDAU." You learn something new every day!

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  6. Anna and I have "date nite" on Fridays. We usually go out for dinner as the boys spend friday nites with their grandparents. The only catch phrase that comes to mind is when Anna calls say on Thursday afternoon at work and tells me " Dont make reservations friday for dinner. I think we have a lot to cover this week, so I will order a pizza" It is never said in any hostile way, but I am aware that she wants me to be prepared for, if i can steal Merryslave expression ,FDAU.

    peter

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    1. Hi Peter. I think this illustrates that even very understated communications can carry significant weight!

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  7. Oftentimes love is shown by the things not said and the judgements not made.

    Make what you will of that.

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  8. Dan
    I think I was inadvertently misleading about using rituals to stop defiance. I used the example of " long corner time" to illustrate how she subdues me. But in reality many other things she sometimes uses are just as effective if not more so and require little time. Slowing lowing my trousers and underpants while forcing eye contact would be an example. Hand spanking/ walking me to the corner or upstairs is another and leading me to the spanking room with my pants around my ankles is another. None of thee rituals take much time but they are important. She started to use most of them because I told her how powerful they were. But I think she uses them now because they get me where she wants me faster.
    Alan

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    1. While it would be short and sweet, I foresee a topic in the future on who lowers the pants and underwear -- him or her.

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    2. Hmm. I started a whole discussion on Fet re dressed to undressing, where it starts, how far does it go (pants down, pants off, or naked),who does it, etc.

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    3. Her all of the time from the first one. She trained me to clasp both hands behind my back as soon as her hands tug at my belt. That was a lesson I have only forgot once.Its funny because my original fantasy was to have a woman tell me to strip or get naked. Sometimes I am naked when the spanking starts but much of the time she just lowers my jeans to my ankles and lets them there until she is done.
      Carl

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  9. Whe we started more than a decade ago, my Ann was not able to verbalize. We would agree that one or more spankings were in order. At first she didn't get much emotion into the spanks themselves. It took time. It took time for her to realize that it was ok to make it hurt. It was ok to have feelings behind the spanking.

    Now she will tell me how frustrated or hurt or angry she is. And now she enjoys making me squirm with my pants down in the corner. The last spanking had me nearly sobbing before it started. I arrived home from work and there was no small talk. She had told me how upset she was and then said, "get things ready, get your pants and underwear down, and call me when you're ready. " She's also fond of making me repeat that, "I will have to pull down my pants and underwear and get a spanking like a 10 year old."

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  10. Boy does that sound familiar. Almost exactly the orders I get; to get ready and let her know when the preparations are done.

    She doesn't want to bother with the the hassle of getting me in place; which for me makes the whole thing even more embarrassing. ( or should I say bare assing?)

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  11. I guess their choice of how to administer a particular discipline session doesn't necessarily look anything like our well-constructed fantasy versions.

    Well, actually sometimes it happens a whole lot like my "dream versions" and other times it's like we just described "go get ready and I'll be in there to take care of business!"

    Grateful for any of it. Obviously too many guys are without it.

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  12. I'm not sure where to put this thought/experience. This seems like the thread. Although it looks like I was the last one to comment here. So maybe I'm talking to myself. ha
    That's O.K. too.

    For some reason of her own, my wife decided that she needs to watch me closer and tighten up on some things. So I have had more and harder disciplinary sessions recently based on that.

    She has helped me understand why I need to change some things and once my eyes were really opened to her vision I wholeheartedly welcomed making the changes she desires.

    It won't be easy. But I am committed to growing into the vision she has for me. All of it is what I would want for myself.

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