Saturday, July 2, 2016

The Forum - Vol. 164 - Turning Points

 “I hate men who are afraid of women's strength.”― Anais Nin. 

Hi all.  Welcome, or welcome back, to The Forum - Disciplined Husbands & Disciplinary Wives.  Our weekly gathering to talk about and promote adult domestic discipline and FLR relationships. I hope you all had a great week and that those of you in the U.S. are off enjoying this long holiday weekend with friends and family. Have fun, and be safe.

Is it just me, or have we had some great discussions the last couple of weeks?  I'm sorry that I got around to responding to several of you only today.  It was a crazy week for me at work, really burning the candle at both ends.  While I didn't get around to responding to them right away, I do want to give a shout-out to J Girl and Willow, two members of our extended community who left  some great comments about how discipline and punishment work for them.  While their relationships are M/f oriented, it has been a great experience for me to get to know them a bit through their blogs and comments like those they left this week.  It's been interesting coming to understand their perspectives, as I started to see the common threads in these relationships and to realize that it isn't only hard-charging, intense men who feel the need to have boundaries imposed and who crave discipline for bad behavior.  It seems that many similarly intense women have those same needs, and it wasn't until recently that I understood that while our genders may be different, the personality traits involved in these relationships really cut across gender lines.  While I think I will always keep the primary M/f focus of this blog, if for no other reason than there aren't many blogs out there with that particular bent, I think it is great to get perspectives from all those who gravitate to these kinds of relationships.  If I can put my finger on one thing that has improved the quality of this blog over the last year, it is the extent to which it has gotten real participation from both genders and from people on both ends of the paddle.

Regarding the substance of last week's topic, I woke up this morning (the 4th, so I've updated this from the original post), with a thought of how to sum up why I don't find discipline as "payback" an offensive concept, while some clearly do.   If I could put it in the mouth of a Disciplinary Wife, it might go something like this: "When you act like a jerk or do bad things and get away with it, everyone but you pays for your misbehavior.  Everyone else suffers because you do bad things or shirk your obligations.  Since all real change comes from within, I can't necessarily make you change.  But, if I have the authority or sufficient will, I can make you pay a price when you don't, which is fair because otherwise everyone but you pays a price for your misdeeds, and what is fair about that?   I'm just making sure you pay part of the price you otherwise force on others."  Or, words to that effect.

A few weeks ago, we heard from Pat, a Disciplinary Wife who left this comment:

"Very early in our Dd relationship he behaved outrageously at a neighborhood party embarrassing me with his loud and tasteless " jokes" after I gave him several warnings. I excused us and took him outside where I told him he was going to be severely punished which I did when we got home. I wasn't sure yet he would submit but he did. After some " remorse time" I made him go back to the party where I assure you he didn't sit down the rest of the night. That night was probably when I made a serious commitment to DD. I have never had to do anything like that again.But he knows I would if he pushed me.
Pat"


The underlined portion forms the basis for today's topic:  Various experiences brought us to our DD, FLR and D/s relationships, but was there a particular moment when you thought, "Wow.  This is real."  Or, a particular event or moment when your commitment to it solidified, or where it really took on the character it has today? Tell us all about it.  It was, by the way, pointed out to me that this one is a little repetitive. Probably.  It's the holiday weekend after a long week.  My inspiration was running low.

I also neglected to open up for discussion the latest poll results.  This one focused on how long people have been in their DD relationships:

Not in one
            10 (11%)
A year or less
            18 (20%)
1 - 5 years
            21 (24%)
5 - 10 years
            13 (15%)
10 or more years
            24 (27%)

Now, having opened up the point for discussion, I'm not sure what to say about it.  That was how I felt when I posted it, by the way.  I didn't see it as anything very revealing; just wanted to get a little more insight into our community.  The distribution of responses is pretty even, to the point that if any differences are statistically significant, it's probably because the sample size was so small (86 votes).  Still, it is somewhat heartening that the highest number of votes was from people who have been in these relationships for 10 years or more.  I have also posted another poll, focusing on the extent to which people mix erotic and disciplinary spankings.

If you have a moment, you might want to check out a blog called: https://dominajen.com/.  The current post, involving needle play, is very BDSM and not my thing.  But, to each his own.  She has some pretty interesting posts. I especially liked this one, from a post called Punishment in the day to day in which she quotes another blogger:
Anyone who’s suffered through a lengthy drive in silence can attest to the fact that punishments exist in conventional relationships. However, behavior is coded in faux-egalitarianism and therefore erratic and often arbitrary. In contrast, those living in a lifestyle BDSM relationship usually have an explicit binary of power and specific rules which, if broken, lead to a submissive being punished. Punishment is not an exclusively D/s thing.  Regulated punishment is an exclusively D/s thing.
Well said.

As always, if this is your first time to The Forum, please consider stopping by our Guestbook (tab above) and tell us a little about yourself.

I hope you all have a great holiday, enjoy each other, and be safe.


Dan

36 comments:

  1. Hi Dan,
    Mine was more of a process than one point. It started with the first time she spanked me (girlfriend)when I didn't want it and had stopped it before when it became unbearable. But a thought came over me that I deserved the spanking and needed it and I had to obey her.I remember raising my bum submissively to her at the point I earlier would have stooped it. Eventually my bum became numb and she took me to that place where I completely surrendered to her physically and emotionally. That was the first time. Then a couple of weeks later we got into a fight over the phone and she abruptly told me ( I will never forget the words) to "get your naughty bum over here". At the time I was busy and stressed but felt I could not disobey her. I know she spanked me when I arrived but don't remember much about it. But even at the time driving over I realized we were crossing a line where it was all real because I couldn't disobey her about discipline or resist her when she was disciplining me.She really was in control and any play was over. My wife, who was experienced in discipline when we met, inherited some of that training.She knew I had been spanked and she acted from the beginning as if she expected to be obeyed about discipline and everything else. That attitude from her made it easy to submit to her . I wonder if most men don't react that way to women who expect to be obeyed. I know I do
    Alan

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    1. Alan
      It has taken me time but I am there now and understand it all.

      sam

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    2. Thanks, Alan. I will be surprised if for most couples it is not more process than event. I also like this line: "[S]he acted from the beginning as if she expected to be obeyed about discipline and everything else." It wasn't really like that for us, and it is an interesting "chicken and the egg" question and a good topic: In most of these relationships, what comes first, the outward dominance, or the displays of submission? Or, is it usually a mix of both?

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    3. Dan,
      That is a great question. I know many in charge women but I do not automatically obey them and in fact are more likely to challenge them in my every day alpha male role.But if a woman is dominant and knows I can be made to obey then I do act submissively to her.This actually only is four women lifetime including my sister in law who has witnessed me being spanked but it would be many more if the woman knew I can be controlled or have been disciplined. The trigger for me is a woman finding out or my telling her. Once she knows the dynamic is very different but otherwise I am an alpha male. Someday society may change to a place where outward displays of obedience to a wife or girlfriend are OK. But until then most of us are in the closet. Women should know that an alpha male telling her he wants or is ready for discipline is an awesome act of trust and probably love.
      Alan

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    4. sam,

      It sounds like you have had some challenges in fully accepting DD. It does take time to connect with the reality that you want to be under control and that you are under control. I would enjoy hearing more about your journey
      Alan

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    5. HI again Alan. Agreed on all fronts, with one area where we are a little different. I tend to have a big problem with authority in just about any form, but I am more likely to take direction from a woman than from another man. That is why when some female leaders are concerned about being seen as "bitches" while men will not be similarly judged for similar authority, I tell them to be careful about making that assumption. I have a far, far harder time accepting orders from another man.

      There is only one other woman who knows about our dynamic, and our relationship isn't of the type where she would then try to make me obey or be submissive.

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  2. My "moment of realizing that it was real" occurred several months after we began. She did not like spanking me, but she did, because I asked her to help remove work related tension. I try not to bring my work home with me. But when you put your feelings in a "box," tension tends to leak out the sides. One of the "rules" that she set up was that I had to ask for a spanking. Because she does not like spanking me, I hesitated to ask; which only built more tension.

    Well, the tension was leaking out of the box and I was trying not to ask; then my wife asked me if I needed a spanking. I was flabbergasted. I never would have guessed that she would ever suggest it. I replied that I would very much appreciate a spanking.

    There was nothing remarkable about the spanking itself. A day later, I asked my wife about that moment. She told me that while she did not like the act itself, she had recognized that spanking relieved my tension and made my life better. Upon that realization, she felt that her reluctance was selfish and she was not supporting me. So she resolved to ask when I next showed evidence of tension. That conversation led to closer and more frequent talks; which has resulted in a much more close relationship.

    Joe2

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    1. Hi Joe2. Communication is always key. Great you are working through it.

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  3. Great topic!!! Us spankees have a tendency to think about from our own perspective! What we need.... How we acted... What we then received ect ect. Will be awesome hearing from some of the woman about that "ah ha" moment that they realized they were giving their first truly DISCIPLINARY spanking.

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    1. Hi Darren. Hope you're well. Have a great 4th.

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  4. A lot of experiences have blended together in my memory as the years doing this have passed. But while I can't recall what prompted it, I do recall my inner reaction of 'wow, this just got real' the first time Rosa gave me the proscribed punishment she had decided upon and then when 'done' announced that while we were 'done for now' we weren't done for the offence. She told me to expect to be spanked again, and possibly even again after that ....because she just couldn't assuage her annoyance with just the one session.

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    1. Thanks, KD. Like you, I have a hard time remembering what prompted particular sessions. Maybe that's why I keep screwing up??

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  5. I knew it was real from the first spanking I administered because I knew men can be managed with a strap if a woman is determined.I had also suspected for a while my husband wanted this. Our dating relationship really became serious when he found out my father was punished sometimes. He never directly asked me to take control but I was certain he would accept it and I was right since I received no resistance when I told him what was coming.Also the way he stripped and presented his ass to me on command convinced me I was right. All of these I guess were " turning points"
    Holly

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    1. Thanks, Holly. I admit that your means of coming to this kind of relationship just fascinates me, having seen it first hand growing up, then imposing it later. It doesn't seem to be the usual route to the lifestyle, but it seems to have worked some seamlessly for you.

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    2. Maybe not seamlessly.I resisted for several years taking the step that I probably should have taken earlier.The strap has helped my husband grow up but welding it has helped me grow too
      Holly

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  6. Dan
    I have never put so much thought as I have in answering this week's topic. I am not sure it was the first time i administered punishment, but it is the moment that I recall I understood what I was doing and more
    important why. Peter had been out of control and being short and rude to me, the boys and everyone in general for over a week. Because he had mentioned in our marriage therapy session more than once that the one thing that seemed to bring him back was corporal punishment. I had as a wife gone to the professional domme who he had visited. There was never sex involved but i understood there was some erotic attachment to it. I resented that. However I went to this woman, who was professional and kind and she gave me a few lessons in how to do it.
    I tried it and although it seemed to work a bit, i resented having to do this. One night before a session I told Peter how I felt. I then said I expected him to change one thing. How he spoke to our boys. If he could not do that and show progress I would leave him. The next day he took the boys and I for a drive and in the woods, sat us down and apologized to both me and our two boys for his behavior. He asked them to
    forgive him. After about 10 days I noticed when he would hold his tongue think a bit before going off. Home was more peaceful and I felt progress was made. Of course he slipped and when he did I punished.
    But this time I had a sense that what I was doing was helping not abetting. Slowly I added other things which included asking forgiveness when he slips either with our family or friends. Now I feel there is purpose and we are working together to create a better life for us.

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    1. Hi Anna. Thanks for the thoughtful response. I wonder if this is also an illustration of how to best use DD -- one step at a time. Address one behavior at a time, instead of trying to suddenly solve 30 or 40 years worth of bad habits.

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  7. Dan
    Didnt sign my entry sorry
    anna

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  8. For us it was after a holiday dinner at her folks place where I got into a nasty argument with her uncle. She had been spanking me for some time but this time after she let me up she gave me a choice between corner time and a repeat spanking or calling her Mother and apologizing and telling her --- had just spanked me. It was the hardest thing I ever did and avoiding the second spanking motivated me but it also seemed the right thing to do after the spanking. Afterward I learned her mother knew about the spankings for a while but I still had trouble facing her for a long time. That spanking was a turning point in many ways because it established my wife's authority to take discipline further than I ever would have and I never misbehaved again at a family event.I had been spanked dozens of time before that night but that was really my first real disciplinary spanking
    Ted

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    1. Hi Ted. Wow! That really is cranking it up and making it real. Honestly, faced with the same choice, I probably would have taken the second spanking before calling my mother-in-law to let her know I had been spanked. You are a stronger man than I.

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  9. Honestly Dan it just seemed like the thing to do. My wife was VERY angry and I was truly sorry for embarrassing her and myself.My MIl is a sweetheart and far as I know she told no one else. She has actually become my best supporter in the family. But it was a turning point. I realized my wife was no longer playing around with spanking.

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    1. I still applaud your courage, particularly since you did not know that she was already aware of the DD aspect of your relationship. That kind of openness and vulnerability takes incredible guts, even if you thought it was the right thing to do.

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  10. Hello Dan,
    If there was a single point for us it was not a spanking but the first time I pegged him, something I don't use often.He had resisted it long after he was submitting to disciplinary spankings. I felt it was something I must do influenced partly by Elise Sutton's recommendation. I made him face me while it was happening and confess his naughty behavior and acknowledge explicitly my control over him (and his ass) .It is time consuming to do it right but the impact on him was powerful. He went from an arrogant condescending jerk to an obedient husband. I will use Anna's favorite phrase and say it had a "humbling function" on him no spanking ever produced.I have used it since a few times mostly just to remind him it can happen.Pegging isn't punishment at least not corporal punishment but it is discipline for an arrogant male and leaves no doubt about who is in charge. Like post orgasm spanking I think it should be used in exceptional circumstances less it loses it's effectiveness. But it is a game changer.
    Marisa

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    1. Hi Marisa. I was mulling whether to make that a topic at some point. I've been curious whether it worked as "real" discipline, or whether it was so erotic and inherently sexual that the guy would just enjoy it too much. Sounds like for you it has been a true disciplinary tool.

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    2. I think it would depend on the atmospherics as well as the man involved. Penetration opens Jay up physically and psychologically.It also makes him submissive in a way spanking does not. But it would be naive to expect the same outcome from every male. Jay has many times confessed to me that spanking him in front of someone ( which I am considering) would be unbearable if done in front of another male. So maybe its a " maleness" thing
      Marisa

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    3. Dan
      I think that Marisa has made a very valuable point that there are two types of discipline. There is corporal which in my mind is spanking . But often we men need to be taken down a bit and that is more instilling in us discipline. I think that it is very hard to separate entirely the sexual aspect of discipline, corporal or otherwise. The end goal for me is to find the path that makes my life work and at the same time makes Anna's life work for her.
      peter

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    4. Okay, I'll say it, the worst part about pegging is the enema I get first

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  11. Dan,
    You are doing a super job with this group. I am (currently) single but have spanked many men a few erotically but most for punishment. I know that the real " turning point" is when I turn them over my lap, pull down their pants and give them a real spanking, fast and hard and long. When they stand up again they never look at the world or women quite the same way. Admit it, most of you guys were shocked by that first punishment spanking and dealing with the reality of it. That's the way it should be and why spanking works. But how about less angst about " the turning point". It was when you got your first real spanking and your life will never be the same again. Love you guys

    Judy

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    1. Hi Judy. Thanks so much for the kind words. I agree that after the first time, my view was never quite the same. You are so right that the "reality" is just so different from what we take away from even very "realistic" descriptions of it.

      Thanks for joining in the discussion, and I hope you'll continue to do so.

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  12. First Disciplinary Spanking came when we were still dating and were about to move in together. The details are not important. Suffice to say that I wanted to do something that would make us some fast money. Her opinion was that it was an unacceptable risk. I stubbornly argued and finally said I as going to do it anyway; because I knew it would be O.K. to do.

    We had played a little with spanking already, so there were implements in the house. I didn't even realize she had fetched a long-handled spoon-like paddle when she walked into the room and angrily pushed me onto the bed, face down.

    Seconds later my bare bottom was stinging like bees were on it. And it went on way longer than my wimpy endurance could handle. I begged, but she just blistered my bottom.

    That was a long time ago and there have been other "no-nonsense" disciplinary sessions; many times even worse than that one. But I remember that day very clearly.

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    1. Hi Tomy. The "no-nonsense" sessions do tend to be the most memorable, don't they?

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  13. Thanks Tomy. This is what I am talking about. That firt real one is a turning point and one you never forget.
    Judy

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  14. The turning point for me came about a year into our marraige, we had been using dd in our relationship for some years before, but this time was different - my wife had gone out for the day and had left me at home with some jobs to do ( we run our own business and do a lot of work from home so I was to catch up on the accounts) however, she arrived home earlier than expected and walked in on me in the study only to find me naked self-pleasuring to spanking porn. Needless to say she was rather surprised , which quickly turned to disappointment hurt and anger, she grabbed me by my ear and led me to the bedroom where she beat my bottom raw! She was very upset and there were tears on both sides (not just from the spanking) as she explained that she thought of porn and masturbation as forms of infidelity and how hurt she felt to find me as she did. When she was finished we embraced and talked and I admitted that I had started to become addicted to porn and that I would do my best to stop.My bottom was still sore three days later and I realised that she was capable of delivering severe punishment if needed and that I should be more aware of my behaviour towards her. However, the real turning point came a week later with the arrival in the post of a chastitiy device that she had ordered - from that moment on she was in total control - I have been kept in chastity pretty much ever since- only released under supervision for hygene and 'emptying',I am spanked daily and must be naked when alone in her presence- it has been thus for fifteen years and I wouldn't change a thing. ( I am permitted to look at some spanking blogs with her supervision- she reads them along with me)

    CRM

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  15. I think there are many stories like this, getting caught and then punished for it in a very emotional scene for both of you.If you are in a DD it's better to get the guidelines clear about masturbation and porn. Some women don't care and others make it a major offense.I have experienced both and the important thing to do is communicate with her about it and then meet her expectations or accept the consequences.

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  16. For us, DD seems to be a constant work in progress, and more of a "two steps forward one back" dance, more ebb and flow than constant high tide. Here's this week's back and forward dance, for illustration:

    My husband had a high-demands job, we have little kids and he's still learning to read me, so I am to tell him when my spank tank runs dry. Over this incredibly busy week I did tell him once or twice, but we couldn't find time to change that. The weekend was also very busy with us spending very little time together, and I didn't get my morning check-in or spanking yesterday. So when my husband came to bed late last night, I asked him if he could please make sure he got up early enough to give me a spanking, just to get me back on an even keel. Then, a minute later, I asked, could he maybe spank me now? He clearly wasn't in the mood, and it was way past my lights off and sleep time. This is the conversation that ensued.

    Xander: "What's wrong?" Me: "Nothing's wrong, I just need a spanking." - "But why?" (Beats me... if I had a penny each time I asked myself that question, I'd be rich.) "I don't know." - "But what's going on?" (I'm getting very frustrated here - I told him my spank tank's empty and he's quizzing me...?) "I'm antsy, it's hard to focus on my work in front of me, and..." - "Ah, now we're getting somewhere." (Are we? Really?) and then: "Do you really need it now?" or something to that extent.

    I was thoroughly frustrated. It's bad enough that I feel like I'm imposing on him without him putting on that air of martyr, so I told him to forget it, apparently just as he was getting up his motivation. I then followed it up with "And I don't want to make that decision (tonight or tomorrow) for you. Make up your mind if you're going to or not, and then do that." To which he then replied, "Now you're definitely getting spanked for yanking my chain."

    Well, I more or less gracefully accepted the spanking he delivered, and he felt a lot better afterwards. This spanking definitely was equal parts retribution for annoying him and role affirmation. And to be honest, it wasn't what I wanted but I really didn't mind. It was the one he needed to give, and the one that cleared the air so we both went to sleep peacefully. And it helped a little with my empty spank tank.

    But I can't help thinking, if his first thought in this situation is that *I'm* yanking *his* chain (he obviously got out of that mode quick enough), then we really still have a way to go...
    And just in case anyone's wondering, he did get up early and gave me exactly what I needed this morning.

    Cheers, Willow

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    ReplyDelete

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